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Whoa hold everything. I can't vouch for pioneers appearance -- he hides it from everone. He could be a gay, white, mason for all I know 😲 Pioneer I wonder if you would tell Odell to his face that you thought he was a white woman? Look like most dudes from the baby boomer generation I think these young cats spend way to much time at the hairdresser, but I would stop short of believing he wants to be a white woman. Michael Jackson perhaps, Odell I doubt it. He just wants attention.

I took in additional, new info, and altered my opinion. Why is doing that that treated ridicule?

LOL!!!!

If there are black women that disagree with you then it's needed.

Well @Delano things look to be swaying into your favor. I still think 45 will last until the end of the year. I'm not so confident about him finishing his term.

@Delano I don't understand the point of your question. If something is "objective," by definition, we'd all need to agree on it, right? @Pioneer1, when was the last time you read a book and what was the title?

Mel Ok, then you understand that this is EXACTLY what you are doing when you represent YOUR experiences and observations as truth. At least the studies that contain the statistics include an abstract, raw data and , methodology of how they've come to the conclusion. I understand the point that you're making that you'd rather trust a systemic method of collecting data rather that simply trusting heresay. My issue is WHO the data is coming from and how trustworthy are they. What are their motives for collecting the data in the first place and do they have a history or presenting false data? You can't call all data or information someone or some institution presents to you - "facts". Because all of it may not be true. You yourself just said: "Since I spent several years in broadcast news - I don't trust anything I hear on the radio/television. I understand how broadcast news works" You KNOW data and figures can be manipulated and skews and out right fabricated depending on the motive of whoever is presenting them so you out of everyone in here should have the most understanding of my skepticism! So unless a TRUSTWORTHY person or people are the ones presenting the facts then why should you trust them? 　 Del Of you hear news story from credible sources you have more confidence it is true. However even on science or scientific experiments there is bias. EXCELLENT point. If the person or people who are presenting this information to you (I don't call them facts unless they've been verified) have a HISTORY of being dishonest and bias...why would you believe their data? 　 　 　 K2 After all, can't Black women attain their own identity of beauty, if only for fun, without trying to be some-one else? And my answer is.....OFCOURSE they can. And they do, with styles like twists and locks and braids. But when they dye their hair BLONDE this it's a clear indication that they are attempting to present themselves as closer to "White".....whether they're doing this consciously or subconsciously. The same goes for when they "relax" and straighten out their kinky hair. It's clear that they see straighter hair as more attractive because of it's association with Whiteness.

@Mel Hopkins: "We've adorn ourselves with crowns of all colors since times immemorial ... our crowns are our glory - and you're correct many of us do suffer psychologically when our hair ain't did. I think any woman who is trying to look like Beyonce is simply a fan... I wore a baseball cap and ponytail pulled through when Janet did Rhythmnation - in fact, a lot of us did. It's just fun." THANK YOU FOR SHARING THAT PRESPECTIVE! I went back through my files on the evidence/arguments presented to US Congress that inspired Civil Rights legislation, photos of dark complexion Black women wearing blond wigs with 3-6 of their Black children/infants in Chicago's community aid offices; 'they say,' supported psychological trauma allegations for discussion that Black mothers were traumatized into mimicking White mothers to provide for their children, or words to that effect. NOW, I realize it is quite possible these women were 'only adoring themselves' without attempting to mimic White women. After all, can't Black women attain their own identity of beauty, if only for fun, without trying to be some-one else? I'm inclined to contemplate this further!

@Delano Since I spent several years in broadcast news - I don't trust anything I hear on the radio/television. I understand how broadcast news works. If it's of interest to me or if I need the information for survival - I verify with the proper agencies. I know not everyone does that but when you work in news you have to get your information from primary sources - second at best. So if I hear on the radio there's a case of salmonella contamination with the current crop of romaine lettuce chances are I'm not going to purchase romaine lettuce. I haven't tested it - nor do I have the tools to confirm or deny there's contamination but since I got a notice from Georgia's department of agriculture stating there is ... I'm going to trust it.. So yes, outside of opening up my own lab in the basement, I'm going I trust the departments we've set up to check our food. Is it an objective fact? Who knows maybe another type of test will turn up no contamination - but I'm simply going to avoid all romaine lettuce for awhile. By the way, isn't saying there are no objective facts, is in fact an objective fact?

Troy and Pioneer I have a problem when you say feminism is less important or even dangerous to the black cause. Then rationalise black male violence towards black women. Troy can you provide some evidence of black men having the right to vote before white women. Since I recall the suffragette movement had the slogan women first negros last. I am still not certain about the Carters. Even though the appear to be less self serving.