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I have been mislabelled by appearances my entire life. However I can't let other people's ignorance and myopia shape my self worth. That's imbibing the foolishness of others. I am not a sophomore.

Political correctness is becoming as stifling as those it targets. It is totally shutting down comedy and satire, forbidding people to laugh at the foibles of the human condition. But this was inevitable as the pendulum swings from one extreme to the other, and times change.

@Troy It only takes one person to destroy an empire. You do realize not speaking up against one man’s action, a man who also happens to be a leader of the organization means they did not protect the women against this one man. According to the news report, their lack of protection became a detriment to the entire organization. So, in this case, if they defended the girls BEFORE Elijah got to them, they could’ve saved the estate from a multitude of court cases and financial loss.

@Troy I am - thanks to my mother, oldest daughter and most surprising from when I worked as an international flight attendant. Depending on the caste -those are consensual marriages where the arrangment is more like a “bake sale”. In one case I know of, they can choose from a variety of people from the same town. (I think it’s weird because these folks have to be distant cousins.) The older sister has to marry first - then the next sister gets to pick. If the older sister is “fat” the younger sister gets to be single for a lot longer... I also know of couples who married outside of their caste and ethnicity too. Glad you cleared up you’re against forced marriages. I was giving you the side eye over here. 😊

@Cynique It's interesting you say that because I have been looking for this NBC special about slavery that came on and I didn't get a chance to watch the whole thing. But the part I saw did describe men who called themselves slave masters would train the slaves to behave like barbarians. Many were raised as children to become savages. They would have them kill and fight each other, or whatever they chose for their own entertainment or amusement, and when they were done with them they took them back to Africa. These were people who probably started civilizations in coming years built on these particular experiences they went through. I can imagine the practices they and their children would dream up from this starting point, so it makes you wonder. In Central Asia there is a country called Kyrgyzstan where the people were once terrorized by enemies who would kidnap and rape their wives and make them new wives. Astonishingly enough, the people adopted this behavior eventually as tradition and to this day they suffer a crisis in which they kidnap wives as custom. Many of the women suffer from great depression and sometimes kill themselves because they could have been planning on going to school or starting their futures, which become ruined when they get kidnapped and are forced by their own families to marry the men who kidnapped them. It's customary. When people are terrorized throughout history, it seems, they adopt the behavior of the people who mistreated them or their ancestors. We do it in the US and call it "keeping it real." In Africa, if you steal something, you could have your arms or legs cut off in the Congo. These are the same people who endured the wrath of Leopold who cut off the limbs of children merely to impress his soldiers in which his small army is rumored to have killed over 10 million of the native people. So I definitely agree about them being influenced by outsiders. This seems to follow historically similar behavior patterns.

@Troy Repugnant behavior meant the same thing during slavery as it does now. That's why the Civil War was fought. Northerners thought slavery was repugnant, and slaveholders did not use the word repugnant to describe slavery because they would have to admit how owning slaves tainted their integrity, - not because back then repugnant and integrity meant something different. You expect me to see where you're coming from, so you should do likewise, when you implore me to acknowledge the distinction you are making. Words are something we always clash about so, i'll just leave it at that. @ all of you who refuted my remark about black folks always being at odds: I hate to keep bringing up what it is that inspires my cynicism about black folks always being at odds, but how long i've been around is what influences my reason for saying this. The dialogue on this thread is one that i have been hearing for over 50 years and is a conversation that has changed very little. So pardon me if i'm not impressed with this exchange of ideas as being a sign of better things to come. What this thread mostly amounted to was a typical conversation between 4 black men shooting the breeze about a perennial subject they never tire of. What can always be distilled from these conversations is a yearning for black unity, the lack of which can conceivably be attributed to blacks always being at odds. But, carry on. Doing so is probably therapeutic. @NubianFellow I’m in agreement. Sometimes, I wonder if those traditions are true African or from the Colonized African. There have been so many perverted folks who have enter the African countries with their “bibles” ... it makes me wonder how people who once lived in nature - turned on what’s natural I also agree. I have always thought the African diaspora in American cobbled together what they wanted to emulate about the Motherland. We should do what comes natural to us in this country, and simply defer to what our DNA instinctively spawns.

@NubianFellow I’m in agreement. Sometimes, I wonder if those traditions are true African or from the Colonized African. There have been so many perverted folks who have enter the African countries with their “bibles” ... it makes me wonder how people who once lived in nature - turned on what’s natural. <-[The latter thought came from watching a video of the “Prince of Wales” in Ghana and a group were performing a dance around him... One commenter said, “those dancers as graceful as they birds they’re imitating.” They were! They looked like birds in their movement. I cried because - I had asked the Universe to show me how our ancestors were before all colonizing and pillaging Then when I saw those dancers everything I had studied made sense- from how we hunted, how we raise crops - to how we lived. I believe it was all in accordance with nature. So sad to read this about “Hyena” - it breaks my heart that these young lives are cut short and genocide ensues. While men can impregnate many women in a year - a women can only have one child maybe two in that same year. Impregnate a child give her a disease and we lose our future. I hope Africans and Africans in the diaspora can find the way back to our true roots.

Clarification: This is a carry over from giving Elijah Muhammad a pass for sexually abusing girls in his charge. As a society, we can't give this a pass.

Well, certain of you conveniently ignore what i said about the book written about King by his closest confidante, the Reverend Ralph Abernathy, in which many of the rumors were confirmed. i, myself, saw a play about 10 years ago based on King's affair with a young women, which if it hadn't been accurate could've been the subject of a suit by his heirs. And it never was. I don't profess to know about any homosexual activity. When you seek the truth, it is not always what we want to hear, especially if it is about our heroes. Pioneer also seems to completely disregard how JFK's involvement with Marilyn Monroe was sensationalized, to the extent of even advancing the idea that that he was involved in her death, which his accusers say was murder, not suicide. As for King, as far as i am concerned, his greatest asset was that he was not self-aggrandizing. it was never about him when it came to the movement, it was about his urging black folks to keep their eyes on the prize. Or did he originally seek leadership. He was chosen for it because of the obvious qualifications he displayed as a relatively unknown preacher. What he did in private was not something i was ever eager to cast stones about. Since his wife seemed OK with it, and he was doing a good job of advancing the black cause, i gave him a pass. His legacy speaks for itself because it involves his being instrumental in the passage of civil rights legislation. Some historians say that had he not been assassinated, his star would've faded as the days of civil disobedience fell from favor. As it was, his death made him a martyr. The same with Malcom X. So be it. About the term, "illegitimate", it had to originate somewhere, and it makes sense that that place was in courts of law where it is routinely used.

@Pioneer1 , not sure where you've been for the last half century and the beginning of this one - sexual abuse, promiscuity and lying under oath about it got a white U.S. President Impeached. Further there have been far too many to count -nor would I list here, the number of political/social/cultural white leaders who had to leave their position for violating moral codes of infidelity, sexual abuse and impropriety, and that is in this century alone. Even Strom Thurmond was spared because he took care of his illegitimate daughter. According to reports he had sex with a 16-year-old who was working for his family. The news didn't break until after he was dead but those close to the family said he treated her like the family she was to him. So yes his sex life became part of his legacy too. As for your off-topic reasoning regarding the 18th century; I wasn't born then so I don't know what the word on the street was then. Those who write the history tend to look back with forgiveness. Trump doesn't have major support - he has white nationalist support. Some polls indicate he's the only president who hasn't received above 50% approval rating. So major support is an exaggeration. So while you seem to want to reduce this to casual sex - it's more than that. It's about sexual abuse especially of minors and fathering children as result of those relationships. No matter what color of your skin - that is frowned on in every culture and ethnic group.

I heard about this social media stupidity on the radio. F*uk the academy awards. See this Instagram video by @kevinhart4real

@Delano It appears the upper rungs display unity via social and professional development. I’m on the outside but it appears these men enjoy sustained financial and professional success as music artists turned entrepreneurs. In fact, I believe there was an article that talked about a friendly competition between Sean Combs and Jay Z and them climbing to the top of the Forbes list. They all seem to be linked in their own fraternity that looks like a venn diagram with some who are entrepreneurs, media moguls -music service streamers, Cable Network owners, filmmakers, et al. I believe Fiddy is also included in that “frat” too... The all started together so I guess as they moved up they only had each other. Most recently with Kim Porter’s death Tabloids reported how she worked behind the scenes at Bad Boy Entertainment but I get the sense it’s an old boy’s network. I can’t answer whether black men unifying at every level will make a difference. But I can say every financially, professionally successful man I’ve dated participated in a network of like-minded men. YES! In fact, some say it’s the lure of that level of bonding that made them join! Yes!

I'm always suspicious of male homophobes. i'm among those who wonder if these guys hate gay men because the latter make them question their own manhood. There was a time when men didn't wear cologne because it was considered for sissies. Now male cologne is a staple in a man's accessories. i'm surprised nobody considered how street gangs are made up of males seeking a bonding experience and how their members tend to hang out together and embrace each other.

@Troy You made two specific statement that came to full stop. It wasn’t an absolute because you also said “Most” but your statement didn’t say most black men don’t congregate. It’s not conducive to PUBLISHING success. You wrote in that sentence: “It’s not conducive to success” I didn’t make it an absolute - I responded to your claim. I mentioned fraternities, but I also gave examples of the freemasons, The BOULE , 100 black men etc. Even If you look up the membership of THE BOULE you will see those men didn’t come to play on any white boy level. And even white boys know it. These men play at the level of self-proclaimed nobility. What I know of some of the fraternity men - they do too. Some of the frat members are in the Boule’. So in this case, moderate-to-working class black men may not network -but the boys with big suspenders do... Maybe that’s what’s missing in your quest to get middle-aged black men noticed. - There needs to be unity among black men at all levels of the economic ladder. We women can’t continue to be your biggest supporters. Y’all have to be each other’s support.

There is a book that mentioned Malcolm X in addition to being a pimp may have also pimped himself to a white man. They King reference was Fbi and audio tape. There may have been about king. I can't recall. Feel free to search for the book. The author died before it was published. It is mostly likely in the last 10 years. Your opinions about both men are malleable. So I am not certain why you are asking? That doesn't appear to be the case with the NOI. And your of its leader erode the integrity of your position. Minister Louis Farrakahn was criticised for calling Hitler a great man. No question Hitler was good for Germany reviving their spirit and their economy, but it was costly and lead to large scale devastation.

Chev A CHILD SHOULD NOT BE FORCED TO HAVE SEX WITH A GROWN ASS MAN! Hey, I agree 100% And if any man is found to have forced himself on a child sexually he should be punished.

Well stop screaming...lol. Perhaps I answered too quickly and didn't grasp the full meaning of your question so I will RE-answer it. If that man.....or any man....sexually FORCES himself on my teenaged daughter I would seriously injure or kill that man. Does that answer your question?

Im not in favor of forcing people to get married. Nor am i in favor of old nen infecting young girls with AIDs. One is taking another's freedom and the other is violent. In general, im against both of these things. Of the two arranged marriages I'm thinking one took place in America and the other took place in India. I'm not versed in all the rules both couples were happy. Both guys had professional jobs in financial services. No need to womansplain marriage, i went through the process ;-)

@Troy Here in the U.S. “arranged marriage” are consensual. Maybe “arranged selection” is a better description. While it’s debatable whether anyone thinks europeans are correct about marriage - we still have US code of common laws based on English law. Marriage is a legal and binding contract between two people. Before entering into the agreement, the two have to meet certain criteria. In addition to being of age of consent, the party can’t be coerced ; there has to be mutual consent AND of course they have to qualify for the marriage law itself. (It was just a few years ago same-sex marriage was outlawed) Any legal marriage here in the U.S. wasn’t arranged but rather the couple were asked to decide from a smaller pool of candidates. The families made an effort to find suitable mates to decide upon. The two always had the right to reject - especially if they decided on someone outside of the parameters. Most U.S. marriages occur in a similar fashion, with two people meeting within their social or professional groups. Many couples still meet each other’s family for approval. I assumed you were referring to forced marriage which is not legally binding in the U.S. BTW, whether marriage or being independent determines happiness is purely subjective.

Mel I am the reverse I used to call my friends to see if they wanted to go out. Twin @Mel Hopkins

@Mel Hopkins Absolutely and without a doubt on the arranged marriages. I have family from parts of Africa and this is a big problem there. The girls are thrown into marriage before they are able to finish their childhood and this causes a lot of depression and even suicide. It is also the cause of the spread of many diseases, such as a case where a "Hyena" (a man who is requested to have sex with little girls to bring them into adulthood) has infected his victims with AIDS and when asked about it, he replied that it was tradition. I was so disgusted at this. He did finally face charges once western nations put pressure on the incident after a journalist bought the story to light. https://tv.nubianplanet.com/watch/sexual-cleansing-custom-in-malawi-on-spotlight-following-039-hyena-039-s-039-arrest_qLCmIeBGwWKbyhp.html Some things are just not right regardless of tradition or beliefs and there is no way to justify what we describe legally as child abuse in this country. Many of the traditions and beliefs of various societies in Africa should be viewed as history and left behind.

How would you know, @Troy ? Are you a woman having your agency snatched? Your statement here is similar to Kanye’s “400 years Slavery was a choice.” Longevity doesn’t make it right...and definitely not right when old ass men are marrying children.

About Black people destined to be at odds with each other, I think that in the context of discussion, there is nothing wrong with having different viewpoints. It doesn't mean Black people are at odds if discussion is happening. This is how we arrive to the most effective solutions. Viewpoints change throughout our lives. If I was having this conversation a few years ago or perhaps maybe even a year ago, my opinions could be a lot different than the opinions I possess now. I actually appreciate when I don't see eye to eye with my people because it means that I will either learn something or educate someone or perhaps both. Besides, without reasonable discourse, how would we agree on which point of view is the correct one?

@Chevdove I hate to use such cliche terms but here's two. The sentiment cut like a knife - but as they saying goes if someone shows you who they are "believe them"... 🤔

Although "illegitimate" and "bastard" may be insensitive words, they are legal terms that apply to children born out of wedlock. It's not like these words are just random labels slapped on children. They are used during courts cases involving heirs and inheritance.

Is it asking too much for women to expect men to have good character and integrity? There's no excuse for accomplished husbands choosing to let their penises supplant their brains especially since no man cherishes an accomplished wife who engages in promiscuous behavior. An extra-marital affair can be forgiven but ongoing perversion and predatory harassment are not cancelled out by public acclaim. Bill Clinton will always be condemned for his shenanigans with Monica Lewinsky, and Donald Trump for his lewd behavior in spite of both having achieved the office of the presidency; and rightfully so. Esteemed married men should be role models worthy of being emulated, not sneaky pussy-mongers. There have to be standards. And it's perfect;y legitimate for a woman to not like a renowned man who was unfaithful to her, something he would likewise resent if she cheated on him. (Anybody who criticizes such a woman is totally lacking in insight.) Unfortunately, the double standard is alive and well as ego-centric men routinely meander through life adhering to the "don't do as i do, do as i say do" code. Elijah Muhammad was an unscrupulous lecher and nothing can erase that blot from the meager contributions he made to the world-at-large. Yes, "doggish" tendencies are in a man's DNA but for a husband to have the discipline and good judgment and moral compass to rise above lust by considering its negative possibilities, is an accomplishment that truly inspires admiration. Of course, people are free to behave anyway they want, but they shouldn't demand to be respected when their indiscretions come to light.

@Mel Hopkins im not disputing what you are saying im just sharing my perspective. Mel, i NEVER wrote this. I'm aware of the Black greek organizations. In college they hosted most if the parties. In fact i gave you examples of men congregating like in armies and the NOI. But women's groups have been far and away more support of AALBC. That is a fact, and it does not dispute what wrote.