Mel Hopkins

@Pioneer1 , not sure where you've been for the last half century and the beginning of this one - sexual abuse, promiscuity and lying under oath about it got a white U.S. President Impeached. Further there have been far too many to count -nor would I list here, the number of political/social/cultural white leaders who had to leave their position for violating moral codes of infidelity, sexual abuse and impropriety, and that is in this century alone. Even Strom Thurmond was spared because he took care of his illegitimate daughter. According to reports he had sex with a 16-year-old who was working for his family. The news didn't break until after he was dead but those close to the family said he treated her like the family she was to him. So yes his sex life became part of his legacy too. As for your off-topic reasoning regarding the 18th century; I wasn't born then so I don't know what the word on the street was then. Those who write the history tend to look back with forgiveness. Trump doesn't have major support - he has white nationalist support. Some polls indicate he's the only president who hasn't received above 50% approval rating. So major support is an exaggeration. So while you seem to want to reduce this to casual sex - it's more than that. It's about sexual abuse especially of minors and fathering children as result of those relationships. No matter what color of your skin - that is frowned on in every culture and ethnic group.

@Delano This is a perfect example of how black women are no longer waiting for anyone to advocate for them but them. I was recently invited to cover a similar gathering of black women fine artists - and the founder who set up a Art workspace here in the Atlanta Metro. Through the non-profit, TILA Studios, 10 artist fellows got the opportunity to show at Art Basel this year - and with the financial support of the email marketing company, MailChimp. Following in the steps of Mary McLeod Bethune ; we, black women, in the arts are now forming networking clubs for and by us.

@Troy , please tell me you are making a facetious statement here - Please tell me you do know what illegitimate means within this context ... @Delano I rest my case as it relates to the previous thread. So much for being a leader when you can't even handle your own family business.

@Chevdove I hate to use such cliche terms but here's two. The sentiment cut like a knife - but as they saying goes if someone shows you who they are "believe them"...

Let the church say “Amen”... @Cynique I’m so glad you posted this! Thank You! I’m beyond finished with this thread especially after reading that “let boys be boys” sentiment. OMG... I can’t believe anyone would think it’s ok to use young women jack up their lives and let them raise up “bastard” children in a religious sect -because they were the top seller of some bean pies. I Just can’t.

@Troy While that may be your perception; connotation of the word “for” is dependent on its context. Since, I spent good part of my career disseminating news to the masses, I know what words can be used interchangeably and what words change the context of the story. Speaking “for” someone in this context means they are unable. Speaking on behalf indicates support. Support is the crux of this thesis. Still, I’m not sure why you believe it’s necessary to infantilize black women in an effort to support or protect them. This is why respect is an important component to protection. Most black women respect black men and that’s why they’re willing to protect them without diminishing their standing.

@Troy I put a link here to their background from a twitter thread / twitter thread. - I mentioned the author was a researcher who did in-depth research on the people. Remember, it was when you wrote that I shouldn't encourage Pioneer1, because I mentioned there might be merit to his theory the original black people were from India. Well it is thought that the Sentinelese are the first people who left Africa and went into Asia.

@Troy , You don't have to speak for someone you're protecting. I've protected my children all their lives but when they were old enough to speak for themselves - I referred to them, I spoke about them but NEVER FOR THEM. I respect them too much. @Delano also mentioned respect for women. Do you respect women? I've already answered this in the invisible black males thread. Black women ARE caring for themselves. "Natalie Hopkinson, a professor at Howard University, summed it up. “A lot of black men are just not hearing what black women are saying because they are too busy complaining about their own situation,” she said. “When it comes to really supporting black women, nobody has our back but us.”" Black women have moved on. BUT it would do well to remember, when black women march in the streets because black men are being gunned down - a black man's agency is left intact (Well at least the one's still breathing). Black women are willing to speak truth to power regarding state-sanctioned murders and then we vote our interest. Now we black women are holding seats at all levels of government - except executive office (soon come). Like I've written before - black women give birth to black boys who grow up into black men - so maybe we protect black men because we have a larger stake in their survival.

@Troy I don't recall @Delano speaking for me or @Cynique ... So I didn't miss anything. What I do recall is a thread started by Delano and his sharing an opinion on the topic. It was here : when you asked " @Mel Hopkins do you also buy into @Delano's unsubstantiated belief that black men dont respect black women? " Instead of asking my opinion on the topic, here you ask me if I buy into Delano's belief. Since you're tone deaf on the topic, this is how you attempted to take away my agency - While we're on the topic of the agency - why are you implying that Delano's is speaking for women? Isn't it possible that he also believe that black men don't protect or respect black women? This is exactly what Malcolm X said in that video clip. I didn't think Malcolm X was speaking for women - he simply made an observation that he wanted men to correct.

@Troy @Troy read your post and you will see where you mentioned the possessive “Their women” and Malcolm protects Betty... “ Malcolm X said in that clip BLACK WOMEN.. in that clip Malcolm expresses unconditional protection and RESPECT for Black Women .... @Troy BOTH institutions and systems are misogynistic ... but America has laws to correct and protect women to make existence equitable and equal. There have been no updates to the quran.

And that’s what makes Malcolm X , the man. He didn’t say muslim women he said BLACK Women ...it was unconditional protection. A man who decides he’ll protect someone when its convenient is a punk-azz-bytch. So, who needs him! I speak from experience. I met a black man to pick up tickets for an event. Never laid eyes on him before that moment... As we’re doing an exchange - a cab hit the curb and was heading for us on the sidewalk. Dude jumped in front of me ..to body block. The cab stopped on the curb and recovered, thank goodness. But that man put me in a safe place. That’s a man who protects a woman, any woman. That’s a Malcolm X kinda man. Yes, it is written he exploited women but then he grew into a man. Yes! Now if he started talking that nonsense it would be a wrap. #ByeMalcolm . I have no patience for Islam and roman-catholicism.

@Troy I thought you wrote "protect THEIR women" ... Malcolm X doesn't say "Muslim Women" even though he refers to himself as Muslim. From my perspective, that makes a big difference. He doesn't put limitations on his proposed protection for BLACK WOMEN... @Pioneer1 Do you remember that I EXPECT black men to provide protection both individually AND as a group... No one has our (black women) but us and this saddens me. Oddly enough my daughter felt safe in Dubai because protocol is set up to protect women. For example, women and children ride in the front of the bus - men in the back - men are not allowed to harass women on the streets... I'm conflicted because I'm an advocate for personal freedom -but in their strange way, they want women to at least feel safe. What I admire about Malcolm X is he didn't say he wanted women to behave a certain way or follow his religion to receive protection.

“Co-owner James Fugate reflects on his evolution as a bookseller and how Eso Won came to be the city's unofficial literary headquarters for Black writing. “ And for inquiring minds he shares the meaning of the bookstore’s name. Listen here - Source: The RunDown | Reporter: Neyat Yohannes

@Pioneer1 Eh-hem... because of his views? It seems like he gets it!

I think only folks over 45 will relate to this feeling. Those on the other side might wonder how there could be anything but emotional rage. Note: I’m thinking about Black Twitter raking Michelle Obama over the coals for writing bothsiderism in a passage that refers to Reverend Jeremiah Wright ... and they’re also poking at EBONY Media Operations for its POWER 100 list (advertising revenue mechanism) but not inviting Miss Flint to the “private” gala. Again, maybe Malcolm was onto something. Maybe for Black-Owned Businesses and Black Celebrity Enterprises to thrive they must move beyond the ideals of the black community.

"You cannot enslave a mind that knows itself, that values itself, that understands itself.” ~ Wangari Maathai

OMG! I’m only 6 minutes and 16 seconds into the debate and I want to punch Evie in the face! She reminds me of those GOP women who vote their husband’s interest. Malcolm X , on the other hand is sounding like a Thanksgiving meal and I’m praying for seconds. He’s saying the same thing I think when reports indicate African-Americans have trillion dollar purchasing power. While it is an interesting factoid, that even I repeat, it still stands to reason that purchasing power isn’t the same as net worth. The black community allegedly has zero wealth and would have to beg, borrow and steal to keep corporations in the black - while emptying what’s left of its coffers. I’m with @Troy , Evie needs to take several seats. Almost 60 years later and Malcolm X is still the voice of reason.

@Delano Ain’t that the truth! I had a dream about this very concept and it helped me to understand that not only do you need a key - you must be willing to use it if you have it.

@Troy , That’s not journalism that’s an editorialized hit-piece. This video looks like it was from the era when news started to go down that road of sensationalism. I agree with Dr. Khalid when he says, to paraphrase these are words from the “white” man (i.e., the establishment). Shame on this talkshow host acting as if he was unbiased. He had an agenda. And that agenda cheated the viewers. @Troy this is so honest and extremely self-aware! I didn’t understand until this moment why you sometimes mention that most people don’t know themselves. But this reveals those hard truths one has to recognize first before they can go deep into self. This discussion (thread) made me face some unpleasant truths about myself too. Actually had me effed up all day.

This raises a good point - because you and I deal in different currency. Your understanding of marrying up or down may be based on monetary value whereas mine is based in information, access to places that most people are unaware even exists, and opportunities to increase territory. Money can’t buy access - it simply makes it easier to move through once access is granted. Tiger’s father was military and he saw the world from one perspective - but he and his wife couldn’t give Tiger full access. They took him as far as they could. Elin's mother is high-level legislator for the Swedish government and her father headed news bureaus in Berlin and was a U.S. White House correspondent. They don’t hand out those press passes to just anyone. So when Tiger tied the knot with Elin, his star was heading light years away from earth. By the way, any woman agreeing to give birth to man’s offspring upgrades that man- full stop. Also note: accepting a position as a Nanny is much different than having to work as a nanny. The aforementioned allows access - whereas the latter is employment. Maybe you missed the sentence where Elin was asked by the wife of the Swedish pro-golfer to be a nanny to her children when they came to the U.S. - Not only did Elin arrive in the U.S. on someone’s dime - she landed smack dab in the middle in Tiger’s world. She worked as a nanny one time in her life and did it for about a year. The next year she was engaged to Tiger. Elin is said to come from a family of intellectuals. She lived a life of privilege and used her wits to continue the lifestyle she’d grown accustomed to and Tiger’s babies are now citizens of the world. So, all this just to reiterate - when wealthy black man marries a white woman -she may be prettier than a black woman to the man - but no one gets wealthy without a strategy.

The best answer I can give to why black women would marry white men - has to do with currency. What does she value. Will she have to change what she values when she marries? I value freedom of movement, access to information so I got a lot of mileage from marrying a blue-eyed blond German-French man - But then again, I grew up privileged so it was hard for me to consider marrying anyone who wasn’t. Good point.

@Pioneer1 While I don’t like to point folks to wikipedia - I’ll do it in this case... go to wikipedia and check out Elin Nordegren - then check out her parents. While some average black men marry for a big butt and a smile (I kid I kid) (kinda) black men with bank and upperclass black men still appear to marry for reasons other than a good-looking piece of hiney. Btw, @Pioneer1 I’ll never understand why you don’t research these little “fun facts” before you make a claim. As for me, I’ve already been married and had my 3 babies - so no, I don’t need to look. I really find that hard to believe. Really. I’ve known some black women who have been run over by black men...who left them as roadkill and the women have divorced and remarried another black man. Black women are freakishly loyal to black men. So loyal it makes me throw up in my mouth a little.

I haven’t read about any wealthy person marrying a run-of-the mill any woman... most of these women are connected — Then there’s Robert Smith multi-billionaire who married Hope Dworaczyk , former playboy model but she is also coproducer of E - entertainment fashion segment in Canada, when they married. Oh and yes, they’re gorgeous women too - so yes, I agree that’s something too. But there are gorgeous black women so all things equal it’s that extra thing.

@Pioneer1Is that what black women tell you? Or do you believe that because of the love you have for black women and you hope it’s the truth? Actually being white is enough because of the access. You do know white high school graduates have more wealth than black college graduates and even those who have master level degrees ... and tiger didn’t marry no broke chick who wasn’t connected. Inquiring minds like mine always want to know - who wealthy folks are marrying.

I enjoy Neil Gaiman’s writing! It appears he does a lot of research on West African culture and antiquity. I read American Gods when it came out —and admire how much African mythology he wrote into it.