Pioneer1

....an American! A bonafied, real life, flesh-n-blood, U.S. Citizen. For the U.S. Constitution tells you so: 1: All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States -Amendment 14 http://constitutionus.com/

Mel I don't think you're being fair. You asked for ONE Black man who has helped Black women build their economic and social standing in this nation. I actually gave you TWO.....Minister Farrakhan and Booker T. Washington. You basically IGNORED them and their contributions, moved the goal posts further, and went on to argue 3 or 4 differnt tangents. You remind me of that brother who complains about there not being any jobs but when I tell him where to go find one where he's guaranteed to be hired that same day, he comes back with: "Yeaaaah but...... How many hours they want you to work ? How much they payin'? Is it hard? I'm tryna go back to school.....will they help pay for my education too? If not, it ain't worth me applying!!!" BTW..... How long have you felt this way about Black women having it so bad and erradicating oppression? I ask because you said you were in the Republican Party and I'd think that would be the LAST place for you to be in given your strong views on freedom of choice and women's upliftment. Cynique Your defense of Farrakhan rings hollow; provides no facts, figures or specifics just some generalities falling in line with a carefully crafted image about a power hungry man who was part of the regime who had Malcolm X assassinated and whose mentor Elijah Muhammad was a lecher who exploited young girls. I don't know about all the accusations..... What I DO KNOW is Mel asked for a Black man who uplifted Black women and I PROVIDED her with one (actually two).....mission accomplished. How you can sit up there and say I provided "no specifics" when I just gave you a prime example of one of his female ministers struggling with cancer and how Minister Farrakhan uplifted her and helped her improve her life....is beyond my comprehension. 　 There are thousands of unsung teachers and preachers and organization who have inspired young black to turn their lives around. There's a black, all boys high school in Chicago where each June, 100 percent of the graduating class has been accepted by a college. And the nation of Islam is in no way affiliated with this inner city school. Ok....and? What does ANY of these wonderful things have to do with the good the Minister Farrakhan has been doing for Black men AND Black women for decades? Did the good that these organizations do take AWAY from what Farrakhan did? Nevermind that Beyonce is superficial or Viola ambitious; they have not disgraced or demeaned black womanhood. They are beautiful successful independent sistas. Beautiful and successful yes..... Independent NO. They are still dependant on White people in the entertaiment industry to help make and distribute thier music; their White managers and agents to write their pay check and manage their money for them, and the White photographers for magazines like Time to get their image out to the public. So not only are they dependent, their success is largely tied to the White power structure that granted it in the first place.

What happened to his home was terrible and it should be thoroughly investigated. However I have to take issue with him saying that it's hard being Black in AMERICA. Black folks need to cool out with all this anti-American talk because this nation is one of the best nations in the world for Black people over-all. Look at how Black folks are treated in India. Look how they're treated in China, Mexico, Arab countries where our people are routinely called "slave" and berated. Lebron has become rich living his dream life and living quite comfortably.....for the most part because he's in AMERICA. Ofcourse his talents earned him much of his wealth, but he could have been born in Brazil or France or Saudi Arabia with that SAME talent and probably wouldn't be nearly as wealthy and famous as he is today. America is a great place, it's just the racists IN America that make it rough for Black folks and THEY are the ones we need to confront.....not bash the entire country. You look like a fuzzy faced fool sitting up there in a t-shirt with hundreds of millions of dollars in the bank while bashing the very country that MADE you rich in the first place. .

Delano If you form a deep mental or emotional than it is easier to be swayed into forging a physical one. More time means more opportunity. You must have been aware because you made it a point to let your friend know you like women. Maybe he wasn't gay but he till sounds like he was in love with you. I already KNOW that when you form deep social bonds with some people they are more suceptible to fall in love with you! Psychologists and therapists know this also and are trained to watch out for signs that thier clients may be falling in love with them so they can cut off the sessions if necessary. But again, you're failing to take into account that they only fall in love with those of the same sex they are ALREADY attracted to! They don't "turn" homosexual for someone they're having deep conversations with....lol. I know "grooming" works, but again....it doesn't work on someone belonging to a sex you're not attracted to. I think langauge is hard wired but sexuality is fluid even if the mind is not. Some women will find out what their prospective love interest. A man chases a woman until she catches him. Think about it would you spend your last credit talking to a guy and not have eyes for anyone else. If you can't see that you may be hiding from your own impulses. I'm not trying to insult you or take shots but seriously I think because YOUR sexuality may be fluid and because that's your reality you may be projecting it on others. You've said repeatedly that homosexuals, bisexuals, and even straight people have questioned your sexuality which tells me that you're giving off signals either consciously or unconsciously. I'm also saying because you claim to be a psychic. ...which you still have yet to prove....lol. And when you study indigenous traditional customs (African and Native American) you find that many if not most of the shamans, psychics, and spiritual practicioners tended to be BISEXUAL (two spirited) so that they can relate to both males and females in the society more easily and help them. Even today in this society, many of the psychic men have a gay or feminine quality about them and I believe this is so they can relate to both genders more easy. But for most people, their sexuality isn't fluid but SET and well understood. They aren't swayed by conversation, deep emotional bonds, ect.....that's just a scientific fact.

I was nearly 30 and this 23 year old Asian kid who was born in Korea and raised in a sheltered American suburb was "running game" on me? I don't know about that one....lol. So,you're saying that if it weren't for the young lady who didn't feel comfortable around him then he would have "turned" me bisexual? Well first of all, I continued to talk to him for a couple years AFTER that incident with that particular woman....and still didn't get "turned out"...lol. Further, I've talked to and befriended gays, bisexuals, lesbians, and even a drag queen over the years....and didn't get "turned out"....lol. Come on man. Secondly..... You're assuming that a gay person can TURN someone else gay or that a person can TURN gay or bisexual in the first place. Now I admit, I don't know for sure that it CAN'T happen. But I'm more inclined to believe that if a man got "turned out" he was already gay or bisexual to begin with and someone just happened to be skilled enough to get him to express his true self. I believe your sexuality is HARDWIRED and you're essentially born with it. You can't "turn" bi or gay anymore than you can "turn" a retarded person into a genius. That's not to say that a persons sexual orientation can't be influenced while they're still developing in their mother's womb. Nor does it exclude the fact that through some sort of manipulation of the body's chemistry or the brain structure a person's sexual orientation can be changed. However, I highly doubt that social interaction can change a person's sexual orientation. For years the Black community would say: "Oh...she was so abused by these no good men that she TURNED lesbian". "Man, homeboy when to prison straight and got TURNED OUT and now he's gay as a rainbow!" Come to talk to the people themselves and they said they ALWAYS felt that way, lol. But sexuality aside.......... I do believe that you can have a spiritual or chemical bonding with a person of the same sex or opposite sex. That's just human nature. Some people you jive with. You like talking to them and being around them, nothing really sexual about it. But LIKE a sexual relationship.....sometimes the feeling is mutual and sometimes it's onesided. With this particular dude, it was more one sided as he desired my company much more than I desired his. But there are MEN who I consider close friends who we mutually respect and enjoy eachother's company and can kick it for hours.

Del The reason I say that is that Gay Men Lesbians and straight people. Seemed to have a confusion about my sexual orientation. Gays, lesbians, and straights.....? That sounds like EVERYBODY has trouble trying to figure you out.....lol. Pioneer if it wasn't for the Girl you would be Bi. Huh???

Lol.....perhaps. Maybe there was a "spiritual love connection" that I was unaware of.

Mel I appreciated that Louis Farrakhan is a knowledgeable man - with an estimated networth of $3 -to 5 million but what has he done for black woman to elevate their socioeconomic status in America? What legislative proposals has he written or championed to raise the status of black women in America. Hundreds if not thousands of Black women credit Minister Farrakhan for their being cleaned up from a life of drug/alcohol addiction, crime, domestic abuse, and improving their personal self esteem and self worth. I'd think this would have a much better and more direct effect in uplifting the social and economic status of Black women than passing bureaucratic laws from Washington D.C. that often takes years for their effects to be felt and are often tied up by red-tape to the point of ineffectiveness. 　 Women who choose to follow Islam are under the auspices of that religion. They live their lives according to the Quran. It's their choice but it also strips them of a lot decision-making once they choose to follow Islam. I'm not a follower so I can't speak to how this raises the profile of black women, however the results of the NOI and its effect on the status of Black Women is clear. Black women lose their agency once they choose to follow the tenets of any religion. Religion is about obedience and the rules are in place. * * * To a large extent you're right, religion DOES strip people (both male and female) of their decision making, and I'm not the biggest fan of religion myself. However some would argue that this stripping of their ability to make conceptually WRONG decisions in their lives and focus them on a more disciplined purpose driven life has actually been more beneficial to their upliftment than having no rules or discipline to guide them. Kind of like a University that grades and graduates students who are disciplined enough to follow the rules of learning for their own benefit. Many women who were once street and ghetto are now productive workers, mothers, and business owners as a direct result of Minister Farrakhan's teachings and required discipline. One of them is Minister Ava Muhammad...... Dr. Ava Muhammad described in detail that she was introduced to the Teachings of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad though a speech by Minister Farrakhan in 1981 in New York. At the time, she was involved in an emotional, mental and physical battle with cancer. He spoke of the healing power of Allah that night. "I am so thankful to Allah that when I first heard Minister Farrakhan, I was in the throes of cancer so that I would not have to struggle with a dilemma because I was in the throes of death and he was sunlight, sunshine, and life," said Ava Muhammad. http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/National_News_2/article_101451.shtml 　 　 　 When my daughter and I went to vote for Hillary in the last election, we joked and said, "well let us go to polls to secure our place on the bottom." We were half-joking because while we (black women) are still last on the economic ladder, she had a secured her position as a contract analyst at new technology law firm ... and I was finally able to focus on building my communication/publishing business You believe that Black women are on the BOTTOM of the economic ladder? Do you think that Black men, Native American men, and Native American women are doing better from a socio-economic stand point than Black women? 　 　 　 So again I'll pose this If you know of any other black man - wait, I'll make it easy ANY MAN who has championed the rights of black women and actually helped us inch up higher at last place - please share. I really want to know because I might have missed his work. Well..... If you don't care too much for Farrakhan as an example, how about another in Booker T. Washington who hired Black women to teach AND taught Black women in his schools improving their lives and the lives of their families and many more generations to come.....all during a time when Black women weren't allowed by the general society to even get an education....atleast in the South: "On July 4th, 1881 Washington officially opened Tuskegee with what he described as 30 "anxious and earnest students," many of whom were already public school teachers. Washington was the only teacher. As word of the school spread, other teachers and students began to arrive. All were mature men and women. Some were quite elderly. His plan was to train most of his students to be teachers who would return to their rural communities and teach the people how to "put new energy and new life into farming," http://www.pbs.org/wnet/jimcrow/stories_events_tuskegee.html 　 　 　 　 Cynique And what has Farrakhan done for the black community lately, except lead a life of luxurious leisure and surface once a year to stand on a dais and deliver a marathon speech spewing the same old rhetoric. Since i don't know, will someone inform me what noteworthy profitable industries and jobs and economic progress the black Muslims have made, besides selling bean pies, and hawking newspapers, adopting Arabic names, and its menfolk wearing business suits instead of saggin jeans? Yes, i know they have a prison ministry but what are they doing to prevent young black men from being sent there in the first place? I'm not sure what's wrong with Minister Farrakhan or any other Black leader who earned his wealth, leading a luxurious life. Last I checked he never took a vow of poverty. And as I've mentioned and Troy's mentioned, hundreds....probably thousands....of Black men and women have been cleaned up morally and physically as a direct result of Minister Farrakhan's efforts in the Black community. But alas..... He is a leader....but NOT a dictator. He's called a MINISTER for a reason. The only thing he can do is deliver the message and urge Black men to stop using and selling dope, stop killing eachother, and clean up their homes and communities and take care of their families. He can't put a gun to their heads and MAKE them do otherwise. Many of the problems that Black people face are not legal or economic but MORAL and only a change in MORAL behavior will improve their lot....and THAT for the most part is an individual choice.

I said they are different with SOME similarities. For example, religion was used to oppress and justify the abuse of both groups. What Black people went (are going) through for the 500 or 600 years of contact with Europeans was extreme and intense involving millions of people murdered as well as slavery and it's after effects. On the flip side, what women went (are going) through with sexism wasn't quite as intense but much longer, existing for thousands of years of discrimination and abuse at the hands of patriarchal societies around the globe. Another difference is that atleast women were NEEDED by their abusers so men were a little more hesitant to kill women wholesale, but Whites were killing Blacks by the millions during the TransAtlantic Slave Trade seeing them as worthless animals. But again on the other hand, when Blacks aren't under the thumb of White racist domination they lived among eachother in relative peace and stability in thier own society building their own institutions, but no matter what society women were in or where they went they were subject to being dominated, controled, and often abused by the men in that society. Most often by men in their own family....and it was accepted as a way of life. Like I said, it's hard....for me atleast....to compare the two together. The dynamics are so separate. Throw POVERTY and income inequality next to them and how poor people are looked down upon and have been mistreated through out history and the comparison becomes even MORE complicated with some believing the poor "deserve" to be that way or others at the opposite end claiming that rich are evil and won't enter a kingdom. Apples, collard greens, oak trees, roast beef sandwiches......lol.....can't compare them.

I'm not gonna lie..... There have been MANY men that I've enjoyed the company of and loved talking to. If they were in the neighborhood or in town they were/are always welcomed by my home to sit down and chop it up. Some people you just like and vibe with. I don't know if I'd call it a "bromance" though.....lol. There is nothing sexual or even sensual about it. There are women I like talking to the same way, some are rather unattractive from a sexual point of view but I still love talking to them and consider them really good friends. With both the males and unattractive females I liked talking to....and could talk to them for hours upon hours...if for some silly reason they decided to get up and sit closer to me or put their hand on my knee and start staring me in the eyes I'm pretty sure my reaction will be quite physical and probably violent, lol. Even with homeboy, as much as he "jocked" me I didn't feel the slightest bit of gayness or sexual desire coming from him, it was all intellectual. I think it goes back to intuition and just "knowing" what people are about. And the older you get the sharper that skill gets. You talk about girls having crushes on the counselors....... Most of the White women I've really gotten to know pretty well tell me that they've experimented with kissing and smooching other girls when they were young. You talk about smoking and one of the games I've heard several different White women repeat was some sort of kissing game where they'd blow smoke into eachother's mouths. But I haven't met any Black girls who said this. Not saying it doesn't happen, but they didn't admit it to me....even during conversations about homosexuality. Many Black psychologist have asserted that homosexuality is part of the White psyche and that most Whites are homosexual atleast on some level. I found that hard to believe at first but the older I get and the more I observe society and here stories, the more seriously I begin to take that assertion.

Cynique BTW, Beyonce is not that petite. She's 5'6" and has 39" in hips Well that was the point of my previous post. She DOES have some curves about her, but you don't see that in THIS PARTICULAR photo. Her body is portrayed with that skinny legged "Kate Moss" look with the shrunken thighs and the zombied out appearance. You're right..... The Black power movement, feminist movement, and gay rights movement are apples oranges and bananas. It's hard to equate one with the other because they all have their peculiar similarities and differences. Mel Please name one black man who has done anything to help black women build their collective economic and social standing here in the U.S. Would Minister Farrakhan and what he's done with the MGT count? Or would you put him in the "preacher" catagory?

Troy Come on man, you know "white Freudian psychology" don't apply to brothers.....lol. From what I've observed.... If a White dude is always ranting and raving about homosexuality, chances are he IS a homosexual. If a Black man is doing it, he may have his reasons but being gay usually ain't one of them...lol. But at any rate...... I wasn't trying to bust on the gays or demonize them, just pointing out how fond he seemed to be of my company even though I didn't dectect any "sweetness" about him what so ever. This was the WestCoast and there were plenty of openly gay men frequenting that Starbucks but I never saw him talking to them....or any other man....or any woman! From the time I saw him and the years I was there, besides myself I can count on ONE HAND the number of people I've seen him really interact with on a social level. Your asking did we go out on a date reminded me of something else that was funny NOW but was very akward at the time..... I started kicking it with a young lady out there and I would bring HER to the Starbucks from time to time. He knew I often came there to meet women so if he happened to see me with a female he'd back off or sit in a corner somewhere and if by some chance the woman happened to leave before I did he'd catch me by myself and start running his mouth. For some reason....I'm still not sure why.....I told him it was OK to sit with us when he saw us because I "had her" already so he wouldn't be considered in the way....lol. What did I have to do THAT for??? Dude would come and just sit and watch us talk and after about a minute of silence....he'd talk ONLY TO ME! If she'd ask him a question, he'd answer casually.....but then got quiet again. No type of conversation with her what so ever.....lol....damn. She was a nice girl so for a few encounters she'd TRY to converse with him but he'd turn so red and funny faced that she'd get freaked out and leave him alone. ((shakes head)) This happened for nearly 2 weeks to the point that she insisted that we no longer go to that Starbucks because of that "creepy guy". I guess I didn't consider him creepy and liked talking to him because he was one of the few Asians who's willing to talk openly about race and politics with a Black man and he'd go all in about how Asians saw Black people and what his parents said ect... Delano It's true that some gay men do get married, but still......... You can kind of tell if a person (straight female or gay male) has some "feelings" for you, even if they don't say it. It's almost intuitive. Homeboy wasn't on me like that, he genuinely just liked to talk talk and talk some more. Now he may have been A-SEXUAL. I've met quite a few people who fit into that category where they didn't like either sex.

Cynique Who said I didn't want "likes"? I LOVE when posters give me "likes" ! I just don't GIVE them to other posters that much....lol. Not sure why. .....laziness? .....inconsiderate? I don't really know why I don't.....I just don't. I suppose like either Mel or Troy mentioned on another thread if you agree with something you usually don't say anything, it's when you DISAGREE that you tend to be animated and voice your opionion. Or perhaps my "likes" are like currency, the less it's used the more valuable it is. It just so happens that I AGREE with the vast majority of what most of the posters on here have to say so if I went around "liking" every post I agreed with.....pretty soon I recon my "likes" would lose their value and become meaningless. At any rate, you can "like" my posts all you want. Just don't expect me to "like" yours in return....lol. Not because I don't agree, but....I don't know.....just because.

My friend Milton has moved to CA, I'll miss running into him. Maybe that's why he moved to Cali. Trying to get away from you.....lol. When I first moved to this small town on the Westcoast there was a Starbucks I used to go to everyday just to sit down and read, meet people (especially women), and just chill. After a couple days I met this young Asian dude and we talked for 4 hours about politics, religion, race.....we really got along and jived. And he wasn't gay....lol....we just really vibed with eachother as men. Then I saw him the next day....and we talked....ok. Then the day after that....he's waiting on me....and we talked. Even on Sundays.....he'd come in just to sit down and talk. I mean, this cat would talk to me as long as I stayed there even if it were all day. He was young and I tried to point him at women...he'd glance at them but continue on whatever subject we were talking about. Asian women would come up TO HIM and give him the eye and he'd smile but keep on talking to me. If I saw him on the street he'd link up with me just to hang out and talk! I knew the dude wasn't gay because he constantly talked about going to Korea or China to find a bride......but still. Gay or not, you don't need to be around another dude for THAT DAMN LONG...lol. It was like he didn't have that social gauge that tells you when it's time to shut up and leave nor was he good at reading body language. I started to leave the city just to get away from him because the town was small and it only had one Starbucks, but finally he got some sort of job that took up his time and I only saw him every once in a while....lol. We still kept in touch for a few years after I left town because I actually did like talking to the dude....but only for a reasonable amount of time. Even when I'd talk to him on the phone he'd talk to me until his battery gave out or his minutes expired; then he'd run down to the 7-11 and buy more minutes just to come back and talk MORE shit....lol. All jokes aside, obviously my story doesn't equate to Troy's about my manz down in Florida....but reading it just brought back memories....lol.

Another thing I've noticed about Beyonce's image is the "thigh gap". I've always been aware of it but didn't know what it was called. That hollow muscular part of the inner thigh that seems to be more prominent in White and Asian women (especially when they're slim) than in Black and Latina women. One of the things I liked about Beyonce's body....like Eryka Badu's....is that she was slim but had a big curvy butt. You don't see that at all in this picture. She's essentiallly made like a White girl (or how White girls USED to be made because many of them have big butts today) in this photo shoot. Light skin, long blond wispy hair, and now skinny thighs with gaps in a black-n-white photo that takes her skin look even lighter..... We're basically looking at a White woman in this picture for all intents and purposes. Is she really the BEST choice to teach young Black girls how to be strong and beautiful? Cynique Come on, you and I both know that marriage....like most celebrity marriages....is a BUSINESS ARRANGEMENT, lol. Wealthy people synergistically combining their money for strategic and probably even legal reasons. MAYBE they actually love eachother. Lol, and as Delano would say: Or maybe they don't.

I'm not the best looking man in the world so trust me when I say you're not missing too much by me not showing my picture....lol. But more so than that, I like a certain amount of privacy and anonimity....that's one of the benefits of the internet. Ofcourse the government and spy agencies already know who you are, the biggest problems come from other regular people you interact with who you may fall out with over something silly and now they know all about you. That's why I don't waste time on facebook and other forms of social media outside of what is absolutely necessary for business or networking. How many people have been killed over conflicts that started on facebook or Instagram and spilled over into the real world? Although I for the most part keep my associates in the cyber world seperate from my associates in the real world, they do cross over from time to time. I remember a sister I met on a messageboard from Canada who was so compelling that we ended up sharing our information and MEETING eachother and she was even more wonderful in real life than online. Infact, I have to admit that I DO expect to eventually meet Troy one of these days and most likely at some political or social event....lol. It may sound kind of shallow to admit, but it often DOES make a difference in how you respond to people when you know how they look. I've met a few people I kicked it with for months or years THINKING they looked a particular type of way and thought I had it nailed down...only to see someone completely different when they posted their picture. And it completely changed the way I talked to them from then on.

I agree, that Beyonce is a feminist when she WANTS to be. Her behavior is actually no different than Lady Gaga's or Katy Perry's or any other female celebrity who may be considered attractive by the mainstream. She uses her sexuality and body to make money on one hand and spouts out about women being objectified and sexualized on the other....sending mixed messages. But when you realize that most people (male and female) tend to do whatever they WANT to do and whatever they think will benefit them and then try to justify and rectify it later on....then you're no longer suprised or perplexed by hypocrisy. When people look good and they know it....they flaunt it....male OR female. Even most very religious women will show off their body if they know it's attractive or think it'll get the attention of a person they're interested in. Just like the humblest rich man in the world will draw attention to his wealth IF he thinks it will get him a much desired result. So I'm not suprised that so-called feminists use their sensuality to make money. My problems with Beyoncé's image in the media is actually not with her perceived feminism or lack of it but are more racial in nature. First of all I don't think she's Black...literally. She's an AfroAmerican, but not Black. But to understand this particular point I'm making you'd also have to understand my views and classification of race and ethnicity. And with her light skin and her wispy long blonde (I know it's dyed but it's still part of her image) bone straight hair, most people outside of the English speaking world DO NOT see her as a Black woman but as a typical blonde "American" woman. Thus she shouldn't represent "Black women". Secondly and very closely related...... I consider her an attractive woman, but not BECAUSE of her light skin and blonde hair....but because she just has an attractive looking face and well made body. Having said that, I don't like how so much of the media uses HER as an example of a beautiful "Black" woman. It's almost like saying the only time a Black woman can be beautiful is if she looks like or almost like a White woman. But those are my issues with her image. I actually don't have a problem with her as a person. I think she's using her talents to the max and doing her thing and I really don't blame her. (Well, she could actually lose the blonde hair). It's how the media is using her and portraying her that I have a problem with.

Troy Great minds think alike. I used to LOVE hanging out at Barnes and Noble as well as Border's Books (before they closed) to work on plans, have meetings with people, and just sit down and read or have a conversation with people. And like you, I liked being able to eat and drink...something you CAN'T do in most libraries. Plus, in the Detroit most of the libraries were full of either loud kids or homeless people looking for a place to warm up. They're starting to close most of the Barnes and Nobles now so my thing is Starbucks and other more local coffee shops where I can sit down with my lap top and do my thang. The only downside is you have to bring your own books....lol. You look like a dinosaur today sitting there with a book in your hand reading while everyone is reading off of tablets and lap tops but there's something about laying back (if you happen to be in a Starbucks that has a couch) holidng a book in one hand and keeping the other free from some coffee that's not only relaxing but therapudic.

No, it's Earl Graves Sr...founder of Black Enterprise magazine. Not exactly sure why I chose his picture as an avatar; I guess because it looks rather dignified and intellectual...lol. Why? Do you like the picture and think he's a good looking brother...lol. Were you going to stop disagreeing with me so much if you thought THAT'S how I looked?

Mel Yeah....I remember making that statement but I just couldn't figure out where. I THOUGHT it may have been in this thread....looked at the date....and went back to the page trying to find it about 4 or 5 times and just didn't see it for some reason. I was actually trying NOT to ask you and look silly....lol..but after so many attempts I finally decided to ask and when you confirmed it was from this thread for some reason I was able to go back to the very same page I read over 5 times before and see it. Perhaps your twin Del was working some sort of magic to keep it hidden for a few days.

Troy Conversely, Black men do not earn the respect of Black women for women to behave in a traditional manner. They also realize that we are essentially powerless to protect them. This is saying the same thing you said but from a different perspective. Perhaps that explains the huge jump I've been seeing lately of White male Black female relationships. Maybe many sisters have finally decided to just give up on the brothers and throw their lot in with White men who they feel can protect and provide for them. I used to argue it and stopped. Money talks....bullshit walks. I found out as a young man that most women didn't give a damn how that dope dealer got his money, she just knows he was buying her what she wanted and showing her a good time. I can argue with a Black woman all day long about White men this and White men that but at the end of the day if he has the money and power to protect her and provide for her and all I have to offer her is a hard dick and excuses......from a scientific biological point of view she's justified in getting with the man who can take care of her. When you say "traditional" do you mean where the man is the head of the household? Forget about that man; those days are gone, perhaps irretrievably so. Those traditional roles, especially in the Black community are essentially nonexistent with the exception of very Christain households when tend to be more socially conservative. Yes, that's what I meant by traditional....however that is NOT what I personally advocate. I was just explaining why the "traditional" marriages have such a high failure rate in Black America and that's just one reason, but I personally don't think that that patriarchal standard should be pushed or forced on our community. I believe in a more liberal approach of people finding what works for THEM. Sometimes the woman SHOULD be in charge. Some women have a strong dominating personality, and they go good with weak ass men...lol. They're happy together because the woman makes all the decisions and the weak man doesn't have to "man up" and can lay back and play the passive role that fits his personality. Others like the more traditonal "man is in charge" type of relationship. But I still think the group relationships are the most healthy and will be the most beneficial in the future. It will prove to be the most stable type of family structure is a liberated society. 　 many of Umar's statements reminded me of stuff I've been saying on these forums over the years. Most intelligent Black men have seen and are saying the same things in this society. All it takes is someone who actually has a brain and can THINK and comprehend to realize what's happening in the community. But not everyone can ARTICULATE the problems in a way that those who are not as perceptive can grasp....and that's one of the things he seems to be able to do. when you described Umar as one of "the greatest Black leaders in America today." I did not agree, but if I were to think about Black leadership today, I can see why you would make the statement. The bar is relatively low today isn't it? No Malcolm X, no Dr. King, no Kwame Toure, no Huey Newton. Exactly! That's why I was careful to say TODAY. Yeah we had more effective Black leaders in the past, but if you compare him to what we have today....besides Minister Farrakhan....I don't know who else is as articulate and effective in stirring up the Black community. But you're right, one of the traits of a TRULY great leader his his followers. If you have no followers or no people visibly on your team, how great of a "leader" can you really be. You can make speeches and rile people up all day long, but at the end of the day if they aren't lining up behind you following orders or carrying out your instructions like a M.L. King or even better a Marcus Garvey.....what good is it? No, I haven't seen any "followers" of his in the few times that I've met him so far. He gets a lot of love when he comes to the Detroit area and hundreds come out to hear him and he has connections tha accomodate him....but as far as a hard core group of people that surround him...I haven't seen it. I think one of the problems is he isn't preaching RELIGION. Most of our people tend to be religious minded and if you want to gain thier dedication and following you often have to come at them with a religion and make them think God wants them to follow you. That's one of the reasons the Nation of Islam was/is so successful with Black people, the Jehovah's Witnesses too.

Troy Speaking of growing up uptown....... I've been meaning to ask you for quite a while. Did you even know or meet the brother who used to star on the television show "Fame"? His name is Gene Anthony Ray, but on the show I believe his name was Leo. I ask because he was from Harlem too and was around your age.

So Miles Aldridge, the one who took the photo is a White man who loved to.....as they say in England...."take the piss". Figures....... This Yusef Williams fellow, I know he did her hair but did they say he did her make-up too? I don't know if I skipped over that part or what but I don't remember reading it. 　 Cynique What TIME should really be chided for is selecting Leslie Jones as an influential black woman when the only influence she wields is how she reinforces white people's view of black women as loud, brazen sexpots. Well It's "ABOUT TIME" (pun is definately intended) you said something I agreed with....lol. Troy You said a lot in your second from last post. But unless I was reading it wrong, it sounded a little like the ladies were actually beginning to see things OUR way just a little....lol.

Lol.... I'm not grossed out by it, not in the least. I've always loved "mature" or older women and found them attractive. Even when I was a teenager I was trying to "get up on" women in their 40s, and got angry if they didn't take me seriously......lol. Infact I met a 71 year old woman the other day I that I was trying to hook up with....lol.

I've met a LOT of White people who've helped me and I'm working with some right now. But that doesn't justify me being naïve and letting my guard down. I think most of our people really subconsciously LOVE White people and don't want to accept that they don't love them back, which is why they repeatedly give them the benefit of the doubt and let their guard down and wait UNTIL they are fucked before putting up a defense. The question you should ask yourself is do most White people give US the same benefit of a doubt that so many of us give them? Look at the clenched purses and locked car doors. We have more of a reason to be mistrustful and apprehensive of Whites than they do of us, yet many of them STILL don't trust you even without knowing you. I can't count how many times I've been on an elevator and if I'm standing infront I can feel the eyes staring at me from the Whites on that elevator. It's the same when I go to the men's room. I can wash my hands and an Asian man will wash his and go. A Mexican will wash his and go. Another Black man will wash his and go. A White man will wash his hands and most of the time take a quick glance over at me or another Black man. All of us are born and raised in the same nation at the same time but it's almost as if they're STILL not "used to" Black people....especially Black males. My point is they notice US even when we don't seem to notice THEM. Which should tell you something. Too often Black people toddle along in society smiling...trusting everyone...and thinking everything is everything, all the while not aware that other people watching and studying them and are actually suspicious and mistrustful of them. We were the same way in Africa, and look where it got us. I'm just saying given that climate or atmosphere of racial awareness, it would be wise to stay on guard. Troy I worked with a guy who both I and my Asian co-worker thought was racist. But he liked me. There was a racist guy at the bar, that used to juy me drinks and talk with me. I enjoy expanding minds. i have a few white acquaintances who i consider racists because they voted for Trump and are pro-police, but we have similar interests in other areas that bind us. Incidentally, i think any white person who voted for Trump is a racist who hides behind their rationale for having done so. Reading this reminds me..... The weird thing is that I've always been political....even on the various jobs that I've held. And despite my being political and even racial, many White racist feel that they can "confide" certain feelings in me that apparently they don't say to other Black co-workers....despite the fact that many of those Black workers could care less. I've had so many long discussions with right wingers and conservatives and a few open racist and a few of them I'd consider......not friends....but "dialog buddies" for lack of a more accurate term because although our views are different we enjoy debating and discussing with eachother and many of us tend to notice the same things about society. So often the political Black people and political White people could get along better with EACHOTHER even if our politics were totally opposite....than we got along with other members of our own race who just wanted to talk about sports or something silly or foolish. I think being political minded is a personality trait. You have to be "wired" that way and if you are...you jive with others who are wired similarly even if they don't agree with your particular politics or even share the same race.