Pioneer1

Mel Is that how you fight someone who oppresses you? By subjugating someone who is willing to fight along side you? Sometimes the fight isn't with the OPPRESSOR Sometimes the fight is with IGNORANCE. Women who wear those handkerchiefs tied around their heads aren't fighting along side of me. Infact they aren't fighting PERIOD. It's a style many of them picked up on in IGNORANCE. Most of them are too young to know who Aunt Jemimah is or what she represents, they just see a few other women wearing it and they begin to imitate it....especially on "bad hair" days. If they were better educated with a knowledge of history and the historical images OF racism then they probably wouldn't wear rags tied around their heads like that. It's the same with young Black men who wear their pants so low that they have to shuffle and wobble from side to side when they walk. If they had a better knowledge of history and how Black men were often FORCED to walk in the manner that they are CHOOSING to walk now.....they probably would change their ways.

Mel @Pioneer1 you've presented a False analogy ... We're speaking about consenting adults not children who we, as society, have agreed to be still developing mentally, physically and emotionally. Mental ability is not a gift, it's an ability we all possess. Aptitude may vary but mental ability is inherent unless there's some type of mental damage. Therefore, adults assume the rights to think and choose for themselves. When they are denied that right, it means some institution has deemed them unfit to participate in society. Period. There are no such things as "false analogies". An analogy is like a metaphore or hypothetical...the onus is on the THEME not it's reality. Also, we're talking about SOCIETY IN GENERAL...not just normal adults, consenting adults, emotional stable adults, or any other "perfect image" you may wish to use an an example to illustrate why everyone should be granted the freedom to do whatever the like. And when we're talking about the general society we MUST include not only children, but mentally incompetent adults, mentally unstable adults, socially immature, handicapped, ect.... Everyone must be taken into consideration when deciding whether or not certain laws should be allowed on the books or whether or not we need a particular service. I know some people who say we should get rid of all bus, train, and public transportation service.....because they have cars and are able bodied. They could care less about the person too poor to afford a vehicle, or a person too handicapped to operate one and must rely on public transportation. We can't just look at society from our own person (and often gifted or priveledged) point of view, but from a WHOLISTIC and COMPREHENSIVE view that encompasses the "least of these". Currently the only enforced restrictions that we have, in this society, are to prevent us from infringing on other people's right to pursue life and liberty... as I said "our laws have nothing to do with our safety." But I should be clearer. Speed limits are such laws - they're not enforced so you won't kill yourself, it's enforced so you won't kill others. What about laws that force you to wear a helmet when riding a motor cycle? What about laws that prevent you from not only selling but USING cocaine and heroin? Why are people arrested and hospitalized after attempting suicide? Even in prison people are put on "suicide watch". Ofcourse there's a lot of bullshit laws that need to be taken off the books, but IN THEORY laws were made to maintain social stability in general whether it's to protect one neighbor from being abused by another or harming their own bodies. But I do agree with you that IN THEORY government is in our hands and the more power we have the more benefits we stand to gain.....so we shouldn't give away that power. However as a SOCIETY (not just as a government) we have decided to protect those who can't protect themselves....whether that be from physical or mental/emotional reasons. Pioneer1, there goes that "Hate Speech" sneaking in again.... still, I'll overlook the comparison. According to some Nigerians, and stats that support that claim they're the most educated nationality in the United States among all cultures - including Asians. The jury is out as to why this is the case. Well, Looks like the jury is finished deliberating and just came back with their verdict....lol. It seems that the Nigerians students have been found guilt of NOT TAKING THE VACCINES that have been pushed on Black American children. As a result, they have a lower rate of autism and other learning disabilities and are probably much physically healthier too.

Delano Well if your asking for help or proof. Then motive is important. If you were driving along and saw a man trying to push his stalled car with his family inside out of the road would you stop and help him push his family out of danger? Or would you pull up, roll the window down, and start interrogating him and asking him what's his motive for doing so?

Mel Spiritually, it doesn't matter because connection and intimacy is different on the spiritual plane. You've visited the Akashic Records.......... Don't TELL me you've had "astral sex" too! Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiillll naaaaaw.....

Mel @Pioneer1 and @Troy seem to have adopted the white man's "caricature" of black women as a standard to what they find unattractive about black women. Yes, I actually DO find that particular caricature of Black women unattractive and unappealing. Whenver I see Black women....especially young Black women...on the street with those Aunt Jemimah rags tied around their heads with the knot in the front I feel like running up to them and snatching it off.....lol. For decades we've fought to get rid of the "mammy" image and now some of our youth want to bring it right back as a sign of rebellion. It's weird too because in a way they've allowed racist white man's caricature, troll them and then rent space in their head. That caricature has seem to have effected their perception of black women's "beauty". Read what I said to Troy about males and COMPETITION and maybe it will help you make more sense out of our reaction. What I'm gonna say may be taken as sexist but the fact is......Black women SHOULD care how people see them and SHOULD do their best to beautify themselves and make themselves more attractive. In nearly every culture on this planet, it's part of a rite or custom for women to beautify themselves....that includes the hundreds of various African cultures. Men = Strength Women = Beauty Anytime a woman stops worrying about her looks and stops trying to be beautiful, it won't be long before she stops trying to be a woman PERIOD. Viola Davis IS a beautiful woman and that picture of her just doesn't give her the justice she deserves. 　 　 　 　 Delano Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Which is subject to influence by culture, politics , peers and one sex organs and perhaps sexual orientation. That may be true. However I go back to what I said earlier about heterosexual males actually being MORE qualified to judge women's looks than even women themselves. And vice versa..... Whenever I try on clothes and want to know how I look in something....I don't ask another man....I ask women. How can someone of the SAME sex judge how attractive the OPPOSITE sex will find someone? Troy Actually, without the Time cover and her name on it to context the image, I wouldn't have even KNOWN it was Viola Davis because the image looks so "nothing like her". Other than that, I probably wouldn't be AS shocked because not knowing who it was....I wouldn't have other MUCH BETTER pictures with which to compare her to.

Troy While there ARE exceptions like Mzuri and some females I know in real life who found that particular picture of Viola unflattering, another factor I think may be contributing to the division of opinion along sexual lines is the male drive for COMPETITION. When I read the posts from the ladies I hear more of a "do your thing" "be yourself" " who cares what other people think of you" attitude being pushed. They could care less about what other people outside of themselves think. But with men, we constantly want to BE THE BEST and HAVE THE BEST. We're COMPETING. Whether it's with money, power, or even women. We want to match the Black woman up against the White woman and compete them over who looks the best. So any attempt to make her look bad or even mediocre....is NOTICED MORE or atleast PERCEIVED MORE. And seen as an insult or slight to derail our status in the competition. Do you understand what I'm saying? The competitive spirit where we want to be the strongest and want our women to look the best may be very subtle, almost subconscious...but I believe t's there. And it's what drives us as men to notice the slights and unflattering portrayals more than women who may not even bee looking for them. And because women don't tend to be AS competitive on a larger scale, they don't see what the big deal is or what's at stake for however she's being portrayed. My only concern is that people will view the survey as sexist. Anytime you ask others to make judgements about a woman's particular look...whether it be her natural body or how she's made up or dressed......you might as well assume that atleast SOME people are going to perceive it as atleast slighly sexist because of historical reasons. 　 　 Cynique What keeps sticking in my craw about this debate is that there are millions of black women who look like that picture of Viola Davis. Her flawless complexion is dark brown, she has a very good set of teeth, she wears red lipstick and her hair is in a style that sistas have been wearing for at least 75 years, dating back to the days when they hot-combed their hair and put it up in curlers. Why do y'all think that this is a picture that blacks should be offended by and that to picture a black woman in this pose is racist. Well allow me to pull out some of what's sticking in your craw.........lol. For the UMPTEENTH TIME: It's NOT her hair style that's the problem. It's NOT her dark skin that's the problem. It's NOT her dress that's the problem. It's NOT her being happy that's the problem. My focus is on 2 THINGS: 1. Her lips being curled back and asymetrical like she's some vampire bearing her fangs. 2. Her wearing bright red lip stick that clearly CLASHES with her rich dark complexion No woman smiles with her upper lip curled all the way back showing nearly all of her upper gums. If a woman sat next to you like that in public you'd jump up and run away. It's simply not a normal or natural expression....and the photographers KNEW that. And again, a woman with dark chocolate skin shouldn't wear bright red lipstick because not only does it brings back memories of the racist caricature "mammy"; but it also gives the subconcious impression that she has a bright red vagina which is unhealthy. 　 　 Mzuri They deliberately chose an image that depicted this lady as some sort of clownish jigaboo, for whatever reason. Well said. I'm glad another lady was able to see the same thing we're seeing and co-sign. We can debate the REASONS all day long, but first let's acknowledge the fact that this picture is an unflattering misrepresentation.

Troy Saying happy mothers day, or buying some flowers, is not like going into debt to spend three month's salary on a wedding band.. choose your battles. True, but I just don't like the fact that so many people are led around like sheep without thinking or even questioning why they're forced to do certain things on certain days even though this is called a FREE and SECULAR society. I even challenge financial institutions as to why nearly all of them are closed on Sundays and Christmas.....lol. I tell them keep the institutions open! Let devout Christians have these days off if they choose and make everyone else work. Most people aren't worshipping on Sundays or even on Christmas. Too often they're someone in a bar getting drunk or at home getting drunk and high watching sports. Cynique Now Cynique, be honest with yourself........ Ask yourself, if I were a WOMAN and made that very SAME post about Mother's Day and Valentines Day would you have had the same reaction? If a woman came to you and said that these days are highly commercialized attempts by an otherwise partriarchal society to TRY and compensate and placate women for the ordinarily sexist and discriminatory treatement they routinely through out the rest of the year...would you have disagreed?

In my opinion, I don't think she said what she said out of bitterness or even as an attempt to humiliate Troy; I think it was more of reactionary type of "back talk" out of a perceived injustice. The average man gets told the same thing from time to time by his own wife....lol. "You just think you know SO DAMN MUCH don't you?" To be honest, if Troy or any moderator were to ban someone or use their powers to control or intimidate posters who may OCCASIONALLY (I'm not talking about on-going trolling) hurl petty accusations or minor insults at them.....I would have less respect for them. When I think of the sites I'm on or have been on, the actual ADMINISTRATORS or owners of the site were without exception always ABOVE pettiness. Like the leader of a major organization or corporation, they didn't have time to tussle with fools on the street who wanted to stand on the sidewalk arguing with them. However what I have noticed was that sometimes the part time or lesser moderators that the Admin would choose to HELP moderate were often reactionary and abused their powers. I remember one dude on a hiphop site......... The Admin made him a moderator and he WENT CRAZY. He already loved to argue with people on the site, but we all thought he was cool and a fair fighter until he started just eliminating people's post or going back and erasing what he said earlier just to keep from LOSING ARGUMENTS!!!! I was much younger then but it gave me a good sense of what happens when some people get a little TASTE of power.....how easy they will abuse it without any sense of guilt or shame.

You're well read and a high achiever because you were gifted with the high intelligence to LEARN and PROCESS what you've read and put things into action. Not everyone has that ability and it's for this reason they shouldn't be allowed to make ANY decision they want. It may sound arrogant...but it's the TRUTH. You wouldn't give a 3 year old toddler the right to own and operate a handgun would you? What about an 11 year old? What about a 30 year old with the maturity or intelligence level of an 8 year old? Obviously there are SOME standards and boundaries that shouldn't be crossed. It's the same with society in general, some people don't have the knowledge or intelligence make correct decisions so you must have others to ensure THEIR safety for them as well as the safety of the public. I know corruption exists in all levels of government. They say power tends to corrupt....and "they" weren't lying. But some decisions have to be taken from the individual for the good of the society because if everyone were allowed to do whatever they wanted to do without interference....there wouldn't BE a society left...lol. Outside of the safety aspect............. I think it's a good idea for MOST youth to be guided and somewhat directed at an early age so that their lives can remain safe and stable enough for them to make wise decisions later on as they grow into adulthood. Look at how high achieving most Africans are when they come here, and look at most Black Americans. One of the only differences is DISCIPLINE. Africans come from a society where the youth are FAR MORE disciplined with rules and social customs than our youth and it shows in their educational and occupational performance. Sometimes too much "freedom" can cause you to destroy yourself. That's why when people ask me am I for a free society, I say I'm for a "less restricted" society...lol. A society that is open enough for you to express your creativity and genius, but restricted enough to ensure your safety. Going back to the topic of this thread: Why do Black men cheat? Because they have the FREEDOM to make that choice and choose it.

Del Pioneer have you considered that maybe you are wrong pr perhaps mistaken? That possiblity exists. But not only myself but Troy and most of the other Black men that I've shared this with also feel the same way....that the picture is subtly racist and offensive. When it comes to opinions, we're right by consensus...lol. nor am i certain how Viola Davis is harmed by being on the cover of time. Then let me explain....... Viola is being harmed INDIRECTLY along with other Black women by being shown in an unflattering and almost mocking light. Arbitrarily showing Black women in an offensive, ungraceful, or stereotypical way only re-enforces the historical narrative that White women are the epitome of grace and beauty. 　 Troy I like the flattering part. But perhaps you should choose a different word besides "racist" for the first question. Maybe "stereotypical" or even "subtly racist". Racism is often thought of as a pretty straight forward event that many people don't recognize it when it's practiced in a crafty and vague way that you can't really nail down. Like I said before...... They'll pick 5 sloppy Black women and put them next to 5 inshape White women and carry on the program as normal. You KNOW something isn't right about that set up, but it's hard to call it "racism" because no racist words are being said and it's plenty of Black representation. It took us nearly a hundred years to come up with the term "institutionalized racism"....lol.

Del Pioneer why do you want to viewthe Akashic Records Why not?

Only in a sexist patriarchal society do people need a SPECIAL DAY to let their mothers know how much they're loved and appreciated. It's like Valentine's Day.....or Easter...or Christmas. The REAL meaning has been drowned out by all the commercialization and ritualized binge shopping. I was in a mall down in Atlanta with a lady friend (not a girlfriend) of mine back in February and some young girl Macy's had propped up ran up to us with a bottle of perfume and some roses asking me to show her how much I love her. I asked her was she a Christian and she said yes. I asked did she love everybody....she said yes (she didn't even see it coming....lol) I said, then why don't YOU show her how much YOU love her by giving her those gifts and maybe I'll learn by example. Businesses have learned to get rich off these holidays by practicing "guilt psychology". They know the average person is so weak that they'll feel bad if they don't celebrate or buy their loved one a "gift". Even some of those who claim to KNOW they're being taken advantage of will often cave in. EVERYDAY should be Black Mother's Day.

Very interesting conversation.......... I've been trying to follow it but it's like a Grand Prix race with so many twists and turns...lol. I know the conversation has moved on past people making bad choices on what to eat but I just want to say... Mel You sound like you don't want to hear any excuses for why poor people are obese or make bad decisions. You also sound like high achiever. One thing I advise high achievers to understand is that they are EXCEPTIONAL and it's unreasonable for them to expect others to be able to do what THEY did. If I'm speaking before a city or county board, most of them are highly educated and self driven high achievers.....which is how they got to their positions in the first place. I tell them that when they make laws or decisions, don't think of THEMSELVES and whether or not THEY will be able to manage and operate under those laws; but think of less intelligent lower achieving people on the slow end of society. Because THOSE are going to be the people most impacted by those laws. I'm saying THAT to say, when people are blessed with high intelligence or a high drive for success......they have a responsibility NOT to expect the same from others, even if it's their own children. You have to understand that a lot of people CAN'T or WON'T make the correct choices even if you try to tell them and so we need to protect them from their own doom sometimes. This is why certain drugs are made illegal or regulated to the pharmacy. Sometimes you have to just take the junk food away and FORCE them to eat right for their own good, because giving them a choice is like giving a loaded gun to a baby to play with. Troy I noticed the same thing about a lot of White kids also. How so many of them used different types of designer drugs to get high. Infact I heard either Bill Gates or Steve Jobs did acid ! It's interesting.....even suspicious....to me how as much as they claim that drugs destroys the brain, so many White men could get stone drunk every weekend and do so much drugs in college yet still manage to get good grades and become high achievers. Asian kids have to study night and day to get good grades. White kids get drunk 5 nights out of the week, take a few pills and drop some visine in their eyes in the morning and...and STILL manage to graduate! What gives?

Delano WOW That's the same thing I said when you claimed you grew up in the Bronx but didn't use judgement when it came to people......lol. Troy The question is what was Time's motivation for creating and publishing this unflattering image of Viola. I called it racist because a Black person would have selected a nicer image. It was absolutely racist. White supremacy at it's finest and most subtle. Our people really need to be sharper when it comes to noticing things like this, but perhaps this is yet ANOTHER example of how men and women differ. Notice how the women on the board are so quick to defend ANY image of a Black woman that even a clearly unflattring and almost insulting one is defended. While the men on the board step back and say, "Whoa ho hoooo.....waaaaaiiit a damn minute....they could have done better than THAT!" It's like this in real life! I was out with a sister.....a pretty conscious sister....a few days ago when I first noticed this picture and SHE didn't think anything was wrong with it either! She was so quick to defend Viola and any image of Black women put out by the media that she didn't take time to analyze the expression and colors they decided to use and most of all the REASON Time decided to use that particular image. It only took me a half a second to realize something was wrong. And when I sent emails to a couple of my boys, they BOTH agreed that it was "mammyish". I remember Farrakhan said that Black people are so happy to just SEE themselves on television on in the movies not caring HOW they're depicted. At the time I first heard it....I didn't understand how right he was. But the older I get the more I understand. Can we agree that Time has a sensibility that is not optimized for presenting Black women, and that sensibility is rooted in white male dominance? I'll almost certainly take a survey and see how the results pan out both in general and by gender. You have MY agreement, and I eagerly await the results of that survey. It's probably split down gender/sexual lines....lol. Black women....rightly so....are angry and tired of people "bashing" the way they look. However a lot of our sisters...our of anger and confusion....have taken this "I don't give a fuck what nobody thinks of me" attitude that says they can dress and act anyway they like and no one has the right to critique them let alone correct them. White racist males can easily take advantage of that by encouraging them to dress and act as crazy as they want to and then put them on display as a mockery and insult to Blacks in general...and many don't have enough sense to realize it . Leslie Jones' performance on SNL is a GREAT example of the digraceful offspring born from Black ignorance mating with White racism. Gangsta rap is another even more powerful example. Silly negroes just to happy and excited to be seen....they don't care HOW they're portrayed. 　 　 　 Cynique What I said about Black women weren't "criticisms" so much as they were....well.....to be honest I'm not sure of the right word to use. But my point was Black women are VICTIMS of a society that hasn't engineered products designed specifically for them, and out of ignorance and lack of options have been forced to either use products designed for White women or invent products of their own in order to groom themselves.....and through trial and error hope to be successful. TIME magazine, in its systemic racism, apparently thinks that black people are at their best and most typical when they are smiling broadly. So they didn't think Viola was grimacing. it's all in the eye of the beholder. It's not ALL in the eye of the beholder. As I was telling Delano, some perceptions are UNIVERSAL among human beings and will be seen as the same. You can argue from one culture to the next whether or not it's appropriate for a dark brown woman to wear bright red lipstick. However when I woman smiles with her upper lips curled back and crimpled bearing her entire upper teeth and gums.....that's universally seen as frightening. It's like a vampire without the fangs. Mel Dang, those words contain some strong hate right there... whew! Naaaaah nah....... That ain't HATE.....that's LOVE. I LOVE my people and hate it when racist try to demean them, insult them, or otherwise make a mockery of them in the eyes of the world. Like a good friend. You know you have a good friend she loves you enough to tell you the truth about how you look in a particular dress of if you got a booger hanging out of your nose. But what would you think of such a friend who would let you walk out of the house looking like a FOOL or let you run around town with a booger hanging out of your nose so that everyone points at you and laughs? I'm the type of Black man who loves my sisters so much that I want to see them look there BEST, not let some racist encourage them to look like a clown so that they can be mocked and ridiculed.

Mel I think I understand what you're saying now.......... You're saying proof has nothing to do with the evidence YOU BRING but whether the person you're presenting that evidence to ACCEPTS it or not. It's a shame they made the "experience" definition obselete, because in my opinion it's just as valid as the first definition if not MORE. A little child can ACCEPT that Santa Claus exists simply because she was told so, does that now mean that there's PROOF that Santa exists because that belief has been ACCEPTED? There has to be a better way of defining proof than even what Webster has....lol. Perhaps there should be 2 versions of PROOF: 1. The first type would be solid evidence establishing absolute fact....regardless to what any one individual BELIEVES or ACCEPTS. 2. The second type (more to Websters) would be ANY evidence that the person BELIEVES and ACCEPTS, regardless as to how strong or weak that evidence is. In one definition the onus is on the CONVINCER and on the second the onus is on the CONVINCEE.　 As I stated an experience can't not be verified. I can search for the Library of Congress because someone said it exists on this plane...I could experience through observation that it exist but as soon as the experience is over so does the LOC. Experience can absolutely be verified, especially if I use the definition out of that very same dictionary: VERIFY 1 : to establish the truth, accuracy, or reality of verify the claim It just depends upon the INDIVIDUAL on whether or not they want to ACCEPT that verification. If I had a video of you sitting in the Library of Congress, as long as I ACCEPT that the video is true and hasn't been doctored, your experience has been proven and verified. In another example............ Let's say you and I visit D.C. together. 10 people tell us about the Library of Congress. I believe it exists.....you don't. I convince you to atleast GO to the area those people told us it was located. We both get there, I see it, and I walk in and walk YOU in and we both sit down in a chair inside. Now...... As far as I'm concerned, it has been VERIFIED and the proof ACCEPTED that it indeed exists. If you want to sit there not believing that you're sitting inside the LOC..... If you don't want to ACCEPT that fact...... Your unbelief and lack of acceptance doesn't cancel my verification and proof of our experience. Applying this same logic to the Akashic Records................ Ofcourse I can't verify an experience YOU may have had. However you CAN prove that it exist to my liking by showing me how to get there so I can see for myself.

Mel LOC is only real in your presence. For everyone else who is not present, it's an idea... While it may be real when you visit, once you leave it you cannot prove it exists... Using someone's verification, such as asking directions, and purchasing a plane ticket, that LOC exist is based on trust and faith. Sure I can prove it.....lol. And I'm not talking about "second hand" knowledge like pictures of it, but PROOF! Whoever is asking for proof, all they have to do is get on the phone with me and I can step-by-step walk them through the directions on how to get there until they have arrived and are sitting comfortably in seat with a book in their lap. That's absolute proof. Now ofcourse when it comes to HISTORICAL events or places that no longer exist....no...you CAN'T absolutely prove them any more. You can find other people who HAVE seen them or experienced them along with you and they can be used as witnesses to verify that which HAPPENED or that which ONCE EXISTED...but atleast on this plane of existence you won't be able to prove it. If it's a FABRICATION or HALLUCINATION...(and I'm definitely NOT calling the Akashic Records a fabrication) you'll have a hard time trying to "prove" it...lol. But when it comes to REAL things that still exist, the possibility to prove it should also exist. Now we may not know HOW to prove it...that's where ignorance comes in...but the proof is there because the object is there and the proof exists in it's very being.

Del It is not possible for me to answer your question.Up until the last year or so I didn't judge people. You come from the Bronx, but you didn't "judge" people? Lol...... Man, if you were born in New York and didn't have enough sense to make judgements about people you wouldn't have made it past 14. Infact, if you were a Black man in the United States PERIOD and didn't know how to make judgements about people and your situation atleast on SOME level there's a good chance you wouldn't have made it past 20. So in the first section you are saying only Lesbian women and straight men can judge a woman's attractiveness. Then you say common sense and instinct allows judgement of a woman's attractiveness. So if I put these two sentences together then Gay men and Straight Woman lack common sense and instinct. Which is the logical albeit nonsensical conclusion drawn from your statements.Since you are defining abilitiy along sexual orrientation to the object. Does the woman's sexual orientation matte. Or is all about the person looking. Either it's nonsensical.....OR....your mind isn't analytical enough to comprehend the difference between those two statements. Yes, BOTH sexes of ALL FOUR sexual orienations can...with common sense....make SOME BASIC judgements about the appearance of a person i There are certain physical markers that most human beings with common sense INSTINCTIVELY KNOW will make a person somewhat attractive or unattractive like: -Nice smooth unblemished skin -Strong healthy white teeth -Firm well defined musculature among males -Well defined curves and hip-to-waist ratio among females -As well as a balanced psyche or personality when it comes to interacting These are traits that most people across racial or cultural lines tend to universally find attractive and you don't have to seek the person as a sexual partner or find them attractive YOURSELF to know that they.....or atleast those features...are attractive. If see a man running up and down the street and see a man who runs out of a house naked with gobs of fat and flabby skin hanging off of him, patches of eczema all over his body, no teeth in his mouth, and a penis that looks like a second naval......I don't have to be a woman to JUDGE that this man probably isn't considered very attractive to women. However, when it comes to the OBJECT OF YOUR ATTRACTION....meaning WOMEN (if you are a straight man) or MEN (if you are a straight woman).....you are far more qualified than other demographics to judge the attractiveness of an individual. Other's can do it to a CERTAIN EXTENT....but we tend to do it better. I think nature put it in most people to be able to judge others who aren't a target of our attraction atleast on some level in order to gage our COMPETITION. In other words, I have to be able to atleast do SOME sort of estimation about how attractive another man is in order to know whether or not I should compete with him. Cynique Stop playing.....lol. You KNOW that woman don't look right in that picture! They made that girl look like Wanda from In Living Color: Also you keep talking about the many ways Black women wear their make-up as if all of them are fine. So what if a lot of them are doing it, there are a lot of Black women overweight and theirs a lot of Black women with acne too.....doesn't mean either of these physical conditions are ok or attractive. As as people we should be IMPROVING ourselves, not incorporating a culture of being deviant, dysfunctional, and down right freakish and calling it "individuality" expecting others to embrace it. The plain fact is many Black women in the United States.....because so many were born and raised around White people and/or in White culture....don't know HOW to properly beautify themselves. They don't know HOW to make themselves look better and more appealing. So they imitate White women as best they can and many end up looking WORSE than nature intended for them to be because they're using products and methods that were not intended FOR them. Red lipstick is but ONE. Blue eye shadow is another. Vaseline based products which aren't very good for Black skin is yet another example that both Black women AND Black men tend to use mistakenly. The fact is, despite individual successes, as a people we haven't been taught how to BEST groom and beautify ourselves because we haven't had access to the science that Whites have had to know what works best for us. Most Black women and men have to find out what works best for them by trial and error, there hasn't been too much scientific or lab work done to develop products specifically designed uniquely for our physique. Now don't get me wrong, there've been products marketed TOWARDS Black people and sold as "ethnic" care products. But on a deep scientific level that involves matching our chemical make-up and what reacts best to accentuate our natural beauty....cocobutter and sheabutter are about the only products I can think of right now.

Troy Pioneer, you are looking for proof of something that will never be provable, at least to your level of satisfaction. The answer can't be recorded on a video camera or measured in a lab. It sounds like you don't have a lot of confidence in their ability to answer the question.....lol. Remember, my criteria for proof doesn't just lay in observation alone but either OBSERVATION OR EXPERIENCE. So even if they can't point to and show me the Akashic Records, if they can tell me how to get there to see them for myself then that would suffice. Mel I'm still not sure I totally understand your answer. To make it clear, I'm asking 2 questions: The first is about YOUR experience....whether or not you can verify it to me is immaterial. Have YOU verified the existence of the Akashic Records or some other grand cosmic system of information retrieval? Then the second question....which is to you or whoever can answer..... Does anyone know a SURE way to access this system? Del I can only tell you what you already believe. Lol...If you started telling me what I already believed, you'd be humiliating yourself. Facts are reality and their existence doesn't depend on a person's belief or skepticism. The Library of Congress exists. It's real. It's in Washington D.C.....whether I believe it or not. If I want to go there, all I have to do is get the directions and a plane ticket and I can be there by tommorow....nothing strange or mystical about it. Now either the Akashic Records exist and you know how to access them....or you don't.

Troy I'm glad you posted those Essence pictures of her. We know how "dimed up" Viola can look....and "they" know it too, but when Time did that photo-shoot, making her look good wasn't their intention. Our people need to be wiser about these little tricks and games racists play in order to make themselves look good and make our people look bad. Another game racists like to play in the media is putting attractive White women next to unattractive Black women. It doesn't matter the context or program, it could be the news a movie a show or even a magazine article. Like you said in another thread, there are plenty of fat unhealthy White people, but how many of THEM do you see on television, in the movies, or even on the cover of magazines? We all know how the news will often pick the crazies negro with no teeth in his mouth they can find in the neighborhood and interview HIM on what went down that evening. But they also love to find a White women with clear skin, smiling and in shape and put her next to an overweight loud relatively unattractive Black woman. No need to say anything, just put them together and let the viewers observe the glaring difference so that it sinks into their subconcious. And some of these dumb negroes are so silly and want attention so bad that they don't mind hopping up infront of the cameras looking like a mess and talking even worse.....not realize they're being made a fool out of and just being used to make White people look superior. Cynique Well for one thing, she's not "grinning" on there...she's GRIMACING. She looks like she just stubbed her toe walking around the house barefoot! I didn't say dark skinned Black women shouldn't wear bright red lipstick because it draws too much attention to their dark skin. Dark skinned women shouldn't wear bright lipstick because of subliminal sexual reasons. A woman's lips are a reflection of her vagina. It's really quite simple..... White women tend to have pinkish (most of them anyway) vaginas and red lipstick subconciously draws a man's attention to this fact. I've seen more than a couple Black women's vaginas and I have YET to see a bright red one....and don't care to. Black women's vaginal lips are various shades of brown and her facial lips and lipstick should REFLECT that! But hey, in my book a woman has the right to where whatever the hell she wants. Just don't get mad if people point and laugh at you and call you a clown because you're wearing make-up that is unflattering and totally not designed for you. How many White girls do you see running around with coco-puffs chocolate lipstick on? Delano It sounds like you can only judge someone's attractiveness if they are a potential sexual partner. No, common sense and instinct allows you to have SOME perception of how physically attractive people are perceived by the public. For example.... You don't have to be a woman or a gay man to tell that a sloppy made dude with speckles all over his skin and deformed features may to be considered very physically appealing to most women. But when it comes to judging females I'd be less than honest if I said that the sexual aspect wasn't atleast a factor. How did YOU use to judge people back when you were having sex?

Mel or Del If one of you know a SURE way to access the Akashic Records, I wish one of you could let me know. Mel during your experience, were you able to verify if such a "grand library" or system exists?

Troy if your husband got horny and hired a hooker cause he just wanted to be serviced, do you view that the same engaging in an on going extramarital relationship? I hope ou do because there is a world of difference between to the too. The former is no different than masturbating--you are just not doing it yourself. I don't know if most of the women who read this "caught" the real meaning of what you said or the point you were trying to get across. To many men, especially young men.....sex is biological need and a "game". It's not about love so much as it's about quenching a thirst and scoring points to establish status. When I got older I found out that women tend to attach more feeling or emotion into sex than men do, which is why so many don't understand how their husbands can have sex with other women and not love them yet ONLY love his wife. Mel It's true that many Black people choose to eat garbage because it tastes good, even if it's not good for them. However, much of this garbage is specifically designed and marketed towards Black people. Something is being put in this food to not only attract Black and Brown people but also affect their bodies by disrupting their natural hormones and chemistry. Have you noticed how so many Black and Native American/Latino young people are this fat "puffy" shape today? I don't remember seeing so many Black youth....male and female....who look "stuffed" like an egg roll or pepperoni roll. No shape, no muscularity...no butt...no hips....just a roundish puffy blob at 17. This can't be from simply over eating or eating too many potato chips, there MUST be something in the food that is disrputing their hormones.

Hmmm................ Is it ME, or is this picture of the otherwise attractive Viola Davis on the cover of Time magazine a bit unflattering and even slightly "unnerving"? There are 2 directions we can go with this: 1. The most obvious is that her lips are curled back and it looks like she's showing her fangs. It looks a bit monsterous. No person....male or female...naturally shows that much of their teeth and gums in an attempt to smile. Whoever it was back at Time did that shit on purpose to make her look scary or clownish. 2. The less obvious but still pretty good point that I don't hear enough Black women discussing is the fact that dark skinned women SHOULD NOT wear red lipstick! Some may ask why in the hell would a MAN have the nerve to sit up and tell women what kind of make-up they should or shouldn't wear? For me it's simple....... Unless you're lesbian, you aren't able to judge the attractiveness of a woman and how flattering her make-up is on her as good as a man (straight man) can. Black women are the most beautiful when they wear make-up flattering to THEIR tone/color....the browns and earth tones. Not wearing make-up designed to beautify White women....like bright red lipstick and blue eye shadow. That red lipstick on Viola clashes with her dark skin and makes her look almost cartoonish or "mammy-ish".

I KNOW I wouldn't have lasted too long out there. I tend to be too much of a "thinker" for strenous manual labor. Not saying that I'm some genius or "deep thinker".....I mean that when it comes to working, rather than "just doing" something, I'll often sit for a while and think of different easier ways to do it.....especially when it comes to sweating and heavy laboring. I would have constantly been in trouble with not only the White folks running the plantation but probably the other slaves too because I would have spent much of the time trying to figure out a way to get all the work expected of me done by noon so I could go somwhere and hide and take a nap...lol. And I've always been that way, even as a teenager mopping floors, bussing tables, and laying carpet. I used to have battles with some managers because I'd always find easier ways to do whatever jobs they gave me. In MY mind, you're paying me to get the job done....not sweat....so if I can get the same thing done with half the effort then what's the big deal? But as I got older I learned that a lot of them were more concerned with seeing you sweat and staying busy than the actual amount of work you got done. In the service industry, mediocre workers who "stay busy" are often treated better than high producers who slack off.

Troy If two people chose to only have sex with each other and actually accomplish it over a lifetime, and it makes them happy--that is great. To expect most humans to enthusiastically embrace and conform to this behavior is woefully naive and unrealistic. Logical, natural, and well said! 　 Del I remember a friend told me i should hook up with a woman who was checking me out. He couldn't comprehend me not sleeping with her. This is a testimony to the OTHER extreme that seems to be pervasive among too many Black males.....atleast when I was coming up. Not only did we have the dominant middle class White society that was sexually immature and somewhat timid who tried to force their morals on sexually confident Black men..... But on the opposite extreme it was part of AfroAmerican male culture...especially among young men....that you were supposed to sleep with ANY woman who showed sexual interest in you! I never did understand the thinking of some brothers. We'd go to a party or a club and the first drunk "hood rat" that smiled at them, they'd jump all over her and take her off into a room somewhere, and later claim he really didn't find her that attractive! Same thing in school, half of the boys lining up to bang that ONE girl who was known as a "freak" for anybody. If you didn't bang every girl who gave you an opportunity to, they'd look at you like you were crazy. According to some of them, you're aren't supposed to turn down ANY coochie! No discretion what so ever. Mel I hear what you're saying about the deception part of cheating. Certainly the lying is wrong and cowardly. However most of these men know that no amount of "re-negotiating" and explaining is going to convince their significant other to OK them having sex with other women, so they figure why even go there. I mean, even if your ex promised to be very considerate and use protection...would you honestly have given him the go ahead with other women? I personally believe the best thing to do if you know you like multiple partners is not even get into a relationship at all. But a lot of relationships today aren't based on love or sex, but one sharing the bills.... A lot of couples rely on eachother just to survive economically, which is another reason why people just go ahead and CHEAT rather than risk breaking up their "business partnership" by being honest. It's also another reason why a lot of women who KNOW their men are cheating on them continue to stay with them....it's a financial decision.

Troy 　 I had a job when I was 14 working in Central Park, pulling weeds and stuff like that. It was exhausting work--I can't image a life of that drudgery... Now see..... You were jumping all over me in the other thread accusing me of being a house slave, but here YOU are ready to fall out after pulling up a few dandelions in the park! Man, if you couldn't handle picking weeds in Central Park no way in the WORLD could you have handled picking cotton on a Mississippi plantation, lol. Just about the only thing you could have done was find one of those coats with the split tail in the back and gets to being the BEST house negro you could be.....lol.