richardmurray

@Stefan This topic reflects the challenges in the black populace in the usa. It had adherents in the past in the black populace in the usa, has adherents now in the black populace in the usa. The most financially potent black individuals in the usa have never supported an agenda like this, but that doesn't mean it isn't wanted by black people in the usa or needed by black people in the usa. I end with , I am certain a black party of governance will occur in the usa. I am also certain it will be opposed by quite a large number of black people. but, if you the history of black people in the usa, that makes sense. so, when you hear of a black party of governance in the usa, just remember I told you it will happen, and if you want to do something positive, don't get involved in it.

@Mel Hopkins I only asked cause I wasn't going to search and I gambled you might now off the top of your head. I didn't ask as an inquisition into your thinking or process. I comprehended what you said before. You didn't need to restate.

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@Chevdove It is all about doing military things from the safety of your living room. The cold war showed powerful countries they can safely fight through little countries. which is very profitable in a financial sense for both glad you found that history. What region of india did he come from? I know some people in india and the larger so called indian subcontinent. and yes, many black people utilize false narratives to support their path being viewed as dominant. that is one of my large dislikes of frederidk douglass. I don't mind that he wanted a positive integration between all phenotypes/all races in the usa, but I mind that he underminded other strategies to favor his own. He rejected back to africa, he rejected haiti, he rejected leaving the usa to canada for that matter. he was so vehemently opposed to other ideas and the culture of that exists today when black people talk about all of our forebears as if they only followed one idea.

@Chevdove my pleasure, I always support creativity among black people which is the heart of black nationalism. All I can add is, many artists have published work that was not received well when they were alive but had great reception afterwards. Controversial content is one of the most respectable things an artist can do because by default controversial content goes against fiscal profitability or mass appeal. So, I hope you create the book so that it exists in the ether of work that always gets its due .

@Stefan Remember when you talk about the Black people who fought for the right to vote, never forget the black people back then who opposed that. Not all black people supported that strategy. Remember WEB Dubois himself who believed in integration and the momviolent action of the vote as an older man, in simple terms, rebuked that stance. so , does one honor WEB DUbois the younger or WEB Dubois the older? they are not the same man. The garveyite movement at its heart was a movement of segregation or separation. The whole point of leaving the usa is to severe links not to carry the links to africa or anywhere else. And, if Malcolm's father was a garveyite, I think it proves many forebears didn't die for the right to vote. But died for other causes, rightly or wrongly , functionally or dysfunctionally. I will not speak for all other black men, but in my experience, offline plus online, I find most black men don't have envy or distaste for barack obama. Most black men don't think much of him. But, the why is key? And I have said it before many times in AALBC, that black men don't want in majority what Black women want. Connecting to Mel's points. Black women have led the black community since the war between the states ended, in my view. but, black men, are going a different path, they want a different relationship to the usa. Not all, BArack Obama is a black man. Eric Adams is a black man. but I think most black men do not believe in the usa project. The problem is, they don't have a system around what they want or need. I go back to the million man march. What so few say is it was clear black men were looking for something the usa doesn't have, and they are still looking. And it clearly isn't going to be achieved through the system that satisfies many black women, and I daresay most black women. So I am glad you state your position on a black party of governance, but I repeat merely for the record, if some total stranger reads this, I am certain many black people in the usa want or need a black party of governance. @ProfD I think your point is nail on the head. In harlem, the Black vote has solidified the party of andrew jackson for decades before I was born on all levels of government. What has the black populace in harlem achieved for this participation, this voting block way? nothing. The answer is nothing. The city council of new york, the two legislative branches of new york state, the house of representatives of the congress, all black, all voted in by a black majority for decades. But what has that voting block earned the black community of harlem? nothing. I will never forget the million man march, I couldn't go but I remember the older males in my clan who did. and they all had the same position. this wasn't what they hoped for. At the end of the day, the speeches was what you hear on AALBC alot. Please vote, as if the black community hasn't supported both parties for over 150 years earnestly and achieved nothing. Please follow the law. As if, white people aren't committing illegalities all the time. Again, in harlem, it was the nypd that pushed drugs on black people, everybody know this, that is a common fact. And comprehend, Black elected officials at all levels of government existed to represent harlem while this happened. and some will say play a game but the party of abraham lincoln offered white people talking about the beauty of citizenship or black officials telling other black people about bootstraps and we both know what mlkjr thought of that. soo... of course black people voted and still vote for the party of andrew jackson in harlem, but its worth nothing. Again, I know black people in south africa. many, can't say most most or least, black people in south africa curse mandela. why? He went to jail in zulu garb and came out in european dress. No that isn't the reason but it is a motif to his reality. he came out wanting what black people in the usa want. And the results were the same, but black people in south africa didn't die for that. They didn't die for integration with whites. My point is, black people in south africa voted over 95% , now it is down to circa 60% . People love to talk of voting as if all black people in the past died for voting, that isn't true. Beko didn't die for voting. Garvey didn't live for voting. Dessalines spat on voting. And the results of voting with the black community all through humanity show its inefficiency and why many and eventually most abandon it. It doesn't lead to anything. And thus why, whites in majority support the party of abraham lincoln. the party of abraham lincoln in modernity isn't helping the white power agenda as purely as many suggest but it is the better option to the integration that the whites don't want. In the end, Mel's comment made me realize maybe a majority of black men side a minority of black women need a black party of governance. While a majority of black women side a minority of black men fit or are satisfied to the current parties and their function. What if the black men , want in majority, a more straight forward support, like the entire white community in the usa, which includes white asian, white latinos, white muslims. They don't have an option, and I think they still need it and want it. @Mel Hopkins do you know what percentage of black women in the usa vote, as percent of the whole? I have said the following to you multiple times. black women are the key to the black village in the usa. They are the ones who guided the black village to modernity, rightly or wrongly, functionally or dysfunctionally. I think black people in the usa who are not comfortable with the strategy that most black women are comfortable with need to create or find strategies they are comfortable with.

@ProfD I apologize, I didn't say I think it will happen, I said I will love if it did

@Chevdove exactly, the black populace in the usa, has a heritage of nonviolence. rightly or wrongly, functionally or dysfunctionally. I don't see the scenario in ukraine as a cultural war. modern humanity has three empires: the usa/china/russia. the empires are testing the water to see where the weaker countries will align. In the end, the usa/russia/china haven't had any issue in their borders. It is still the same cold war proxy stuff. Ukraine may become the next germany. interesting, I hope you have your story written down for later generations in your clan. Alot of people in the usa talk about genealogy, but while genetic tracing can be informative, nothing beats messages from the past that have emotional content. @ProfD I will say this, I will love the us government to give multiples of billions to native american reservations.

@Chevdove glad it was a great experience... I am saddened that you don't feel the confidence to start such a literary venture, being part of this community. We are in AALBC and you don't feel you can do it. Well, I know you can. and I hope you decide to. @ProfD fair enough @Stefan for me, the black village has many tribes and each tribe has their own size, some are small, some are large, and they each have their own goals, some are peaceful, some are violent, but for me, each can succeed. the question for each black person, is which tribe do you belong too.

@ProfD global early warning system:) I love that:)

@Chevdove do you know of a book of graduates from hbcu's speaking on their experiences? I don't know of a book like that. I imagine it exists. I know of many individuals who have stated their time at one. but, a collection, i can not recall. Thanks, What I love about that clip is it proved what I have always said, which some people, even black people, need reminding. MLK jr wasn't a fool. Yes, I oppose the strategy of MLK jr, but I never felt or thought he was a fool. He didn't miscomprehend disadvantage. He did not feel that black people need to unfairly struggle. He did not feel that black people should not have advantage. MLK jr, advocated non violence in the usa because when one black person is alone and don't have any other black support, all they can do usually, is fight through the system nonwhite's have constructed. A system that only provides to the individual the rule of law. But MLK jr. never thought black people in the usa didn't warrant advantage, or didn't deserve opportunity , even if unmerited. He figured that the best way for peace in the most heavily multiracial country that only keeps accepting more new races every day is for all to have advantage , for all to have opportunity.

@Stefan The native american from modern day canada to argentina was slaughtered cause for the most part, they didn't treat the stranger, the immigrant , the way history proves most people should, with utter disdain or hate. Native Americans never conceived so many will come from across the ocean to these lands. All of us today, forget how many people, whether on their own volition, or enslaved, in the past or today, continually come to the american continent. The large chunks of populations from Europe/Africa/Asia have moved, one way or another, into the american continent. The native american couldn't believe so many will come. Remember, the navajo had experience with the spanish before the 13 colonies. New Spain had existed for a long time but the spanish never brought over so many people, ala the mestizo populace who are partially indegenous. Part of the reason haiti had a successful slave revolt was the quantity of black people in that country. The french or spanish never wanted to become "american" so to speak. they wanted resources + money. But the english particularly in the usa, and the portuguese in brazil saw in the immigration idea a new country. The goal wasn't to have natives or blacks under a mulatto or mestizo class like in the spanish or french territories. the idea was to literally make a new home for hordes of people, and that is what the native american never assumed, until too late. Second and you have to mention this, the native american populace was decimated by european diseases. I don't know the number but I am certain the mere presence of europeans killed large chunks of native peoples, but for some reason people today don't want to admit that. so, unity was lacking but that was not the reason for the decimation. First, a miscomprehension on the immigration that was being planned , especially by the english/portuguese . Second, a biological war that people don't want to own up to. Third, your point, disunity, like whenTecumseh asked all the eastern tribes to unite but they all didn't. And to be honest, like black people in the usa today, most eastern tribes were probably too scared. Fear is powerful, a scared people are not going to sacrifice.

LINK to more information https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/6477-richardmurray/?status=1925&type=status

@Chevdove of course black folk warrant more opportunity in the usa, considering we were not only enslaved, but that our leaders successfully guided us to be a people who in majority have bought into the myth of araciality in the usa. I don't mean that black people don't know they are black. but, most black people in the usa, based on their actions, accept the idea of a country where the individual is the standard. The black person alone in a white community for example. Most black people, by their actions, deem that the point of the usa. You don't need your community to defend you. do I concur to that mentality? no. but I comprehend it, and it is part of the reason so many black people push equality cause, as al sharpton said, the nonviolent movement isn't merely about those abusing you to stop but for you to not abuse others. Unfortunately, while most black people have accepted a peaceful agenda in the multiracial collective that is the usa, most nonblacks, have not. Yeah, education does need to improve. But part of the problem is , education in a school can't undo culture or heritage learned from the home, part of the home educations. And, the usa has many angry communities where the home isn't happy. the native american home on the reservation isn't dancing , having a great time. The black home in black towns in the south isn't having a party. the white home in white towns across the usa aren't dancing for joy. And as the populations of white asians or black asians, white latinos or black latinos grow, even absent their anglo or african or european cousins, they are dispirited. So a lot of people are unhappy in the usa, always have been. And the narratives about bootstraps and laziness and similar, don't hold water, are lies, but have created resentments over the centuries that a text book or teacher in a class can't switch into determinations. Congrats to going to a HBCU. I congratulate you not for the education there, cause education isn't about the school you go to. But I congratulate you for giving your money and rearing time to an institution of learning that hires black:) MLK jr said something like this right? https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/6477-richardmurray/?status=1924&type=status @Stefan I know, but to be blunt, it isn't like the Black village in the usa is capable of demanding anything. From black people in leadership positions to black people on the street, we tend to talk of the law or absence of the law, not power. so, the pathway of affirmative action was not in a black communal control.

@ProfDnot just white supremacy, but whites in general. well, the black community in humanity is quite large and has way to many variances internally to achieve a collective defense as you suggest. If history says anything, it displayed a haiti in the times of dessalines or an ethiopia in the times of menelik the 2nd mean tribes can achieve for a time security against aggression by whites, when all others have not. All will be well

thanks for sharing, will share

I will try to see if he has a website or something https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/6477-richardmurray/?status=1920&type=status

@Delano I didn't say anything you comprehended. My apologies. @Stefan I personally agree, but I also think Black people should do what they want. Our forebears were enslaved completely for a long time , to a another phenotypical race. Rightly or wrongly, functionally or dysfunctionally:) our forebears in the usa, chose the path of total individual nonviolent freedom. That to me is what Frederick Douglass plus the Black churches wanted. I disagree with his choice or their choice but because of what he and the Black churches chose to do at an important time for Black people in the usa, Black people in the usa have done it all outside of killing another people and taking their land or enslaving a whole other people. We tried to be white, tried to go back to africa, tried to be believers in the constitutions premise, tried to be militant, tried and currently try to do a little of various things. Some things not so nice to other black people. But, it is alright.

@Delano true, disagreement does not equal miscomprehension but both can exist simultaneously. I have learned that some people can't learn to fish, but they still don't want to starve. No I don't. I think the black village in the usa is continuing what its leaders started over 150 years ago. And it is ok. KArin JEan Pierre like Eric Adams is a modern Black leader. Are they the quality of Fannie Lou Hamer plus Malcolm? no, but no village gets lucky enough to have legendary leadership all the time. The global Black village has many different strategies being exhibited as we debate. All have strengths, all have weaknesses. And the systems in the future , whether we know them now or we don't, will have strengths and weaknesses. The hope I have is Black people everywhere are able to find themselves where they are most comfortable. Considering Black people have not killed entire communities of other people and taken all their land or resources or used whole communities of other people for cruel unfair profit or cultural ego. I think all black people deserve to have access to a strategy that works for them. I end with positivity, I am glad you and Mel have your P2P group strategy. I hope it works well for you both and all those in it, aside you. @Mel Hopkins I have never said the black village in the usa or the thirteen colonies was great. I have never said that. Nor do I have any nostalgia for any moment of USA history or the 13 colonies period for that matter. You may be surprised but the one word is kind, not great. And the Black village in the usa is still kind. I think Black women in particular, outside the near magical native american village, have eaten more crow than anyone, in the usa at least. Movements run over those who exists in the space the movement wants to go who don't want the movement there. As I said to a Black militant once privately, who was angered at Obama. The Black village has many tribes, always has, always will. Don't be angry at another tribes success. Focus on what your tribe needs and give good blessings to the other tribes.

@Stefan just for the record, I didn't share this as someone who is personally invested in any crypto. I just know people who are and I know people in this community who are. so I shared. but I want it known I am not an investor in crypto and I have offline spoken against crypto to my friends, some of whom are deeply involved. I don't share cause I always concur or agree with. I share Black cause the black community is internally multiracial and I want all of the races in the Black community to grow. @Troy I concur to your point about crypto not being for the general populace. But I use more statistics. During the sars -cov-2 the white man admitted that circa 70% of children in the poor sections of los angeles didn't have internet for the online school thing. A similar number the white man stated for the entire continent of africa, which the white man also states has the quickest growing quantity of under twenties in humanity. The internet, all the financial management schemes touted all the time, are clearly not for the general populous in the usa or on earth with such numbers. @ProfDyes, the greatest lesson in monopoly is what happens when a player has a little money , owns no lands, and all lands are sold, and is still playing:) In defense, ever since the dutch started their stock market, the white community has always created radical financial markets to sucker those who think they can get lucky. The slot machine is a well known device by know and yet, still does a lot of damage to personal accounts. Fiscally wealthy whites comprehend all others, including poor whites, will always have many who will gamble even knowing the odds is bad, crypto is merely one of many. Why do people keep playing monopoly when they are clearly finished:) @Delano truth. but, people will always risk cause the truth is, .001 percent risk and win, that is the genius of stock markets, card tables at macau, crypto, many people know, if you are not willing to kill somebody for their wealth or enslave somebody for their labor, then absent those sturdier schemes to get rich quick, you have to gamble to get quick and ...

@Mel Hopkinsisntitutions are the symbols of a communities strength. As a computer engineer I have experience with peer to peer networks, peer to peer networks by default are individual collections. They are very loose and while they can create in a quick amount of time utility their great weakness is the lack of a center. Which is the symbol of community. Black is a phenotypical race, not an ancestry race, like german american, but you are correct in population numbers. it is racially fair to compare to black americans to white americans but ok. Mel I comprehend the strategy you refer to. Maybe you think I don't. You or @Delano I don't think comprehend my point. I think the black community in the usa at the time of the war between the states was being led by black leaders to be what it is now. That was why Frederick Douglass pushed for black integration to whites. You speak of enslaved africans but frederick douglass despised the back to africa movement or even black people leaving the usa. His viewpoint is what you consider modern. I think if you back track my comments in this group they will confirm I have said this many times. but the end result of that, can not deliver a collective freedom for a majority of black people in the usa. And I must add, black communities in different countries have different situations. the usa is not the place for the kind of communalism that many black people in the usa clearly want or need. I am not knocking your stated strategy but I am opposing the idea that said strategy is an improvement as much as an eventuality based on the history of the black community.

@ProfD infrastructure and power... I think we black people don't like to say power. Everything with whites isn't about infrastructure, it is about power. what do i own, if I own more than you and you can't take it, that is power. even if I make mistakes, even if I treat you different or better, who owns more and who can take it?

@ProfD yes, and you answered perfectly, My reply is not a condemnation of your answer, which you seem to suggest. TO a country like Nigeria or Jamaica I have nothing to say about your definition of the goal. BUT, the USA is not Nigeria or Jamaica. I am not dissecting your definition. I am not debating if it can be applied. I am debating one thing, if it can be applied in the usa. . I think it is fair to ask can that destination be achieved in a country like the usa that is not only black people. What about the native american? based on how you define the goal for black people in the usa, if the native american wants the same freedom and whites want the same freedom <which of course they do > then all of these peoples can't have the same goal in one space. I am not talking about process but the ability of the usa as a multiracial society to provide freedoms for all its races. I argue, the usa can't allow all races to have freedom as you define freedom for the black community. That isn't an insult to your point merely a continuation of discussion I apologize, if I poorly move on to my centerpoint of discussion @Mel Hopkins I again, communicate poorly, my point isn't that strong people lead themselves. I agree partially to @Delano because, one can thrive and their community not thrive. I think the black community in the usa is exhibit A of a community where individuals thrive but the community rottens. from the end of the war between the states to today, it can be argued, black individuals have thrived as presidents/supreme court jusitces, billionaires, millionaires, but the black communities black churches/historical black colleges, negro leagues, institutions are clearly less than in the past, the nation of islam as well..., every single black organization gets weaker over time in the usa not stronger. so... the strong individuals, if you judge strength by financial success or position in government, are leading themselves, but that is not making a great black community in the usa. I communicated very poorly again, I have learned through personal experience , that no heritage ever dies, it becomes small somestimes, sometimes it becomes really large, but it never dies completely. My point is that the black community in the usa since the war between the states has never been able to settle itself and thus through white negative influence <reconstruction/kkk/jim crow/big city governments during white flight> or constant new groups of black people coming in everywhere <from jamaica/haiti/trinidad/nigeria/ghana/south africa/various places in europe/various places in south america/ various places in asia> the black community in the past or now doesn't have enough time to find a center, cause new black groups or new white negative influences are always coming. The DOSers dislike of so many Black modern immigrant groups, or vice versa, is my proof.

INFO the review, from movies that move we, they welcome follows or shares on facebook

@Delano yes, the old saying, strong people lead themselves... history proves that isn't a lie but isn't the truth either. A person can lead themselves and be strong and not help their own community, especially in the usa. I think many black people have been strong in the usa post war between the states, they have led themselves to individual profit. Now does that mean the black community has improved since the war between the states, well... @ProfD I quote you If that is the destination, I will firmly say that can't happen in the usa for the black community, can it? complete autonomy or self sufficiency, in the usa for the black community demands black people control natural resources and have the militaristic means to defend said resources. Can that actually happen in the usa ? In another country, especially a black one, meaning has mostly black people in it, possibilities exist. but in the usa, this can't happen right? I may comprehend you wrong, but I don't see that level of autonomy of self sufficiency for the black community in the usa. where am I miscomprehending you? @Mel Hopkins the black community in the usa has changed right? it has gone through multiple phases since the end of the war between the states right? the modern black community has more members with a multiphenotypical background, has more members from a recent immigration standpoint, these factors are huge. the black community in the usa in the 1960s didn't have so many recent immigrants from the islands/africa/asia/south america/europe as today. and the black community circa 1865 was the most monolithic culturally/financially/heritagewise than ever after. I think the demography of the black community has changed alot in a relative short time. And I want to add having friends who came as children to the usa from places in africa, clan members who saw how black people immigrating from the caribbean were treated in the black community in the early 1900s , that the black community in the usa was forced to accept alot of new members without its want, to be blunt. Look at the white community in the usa. Even though white jews or catholics have been in the usa from the 13 colonies era, it took a very long time for the white protestants to truly embrace white jews or white catholics. Whereas in the black community, the impotency of the black community meant new black folk from latin america, from africa, from asia, had no communal restriction from Black DOSers anywhere near what white protestants gave white jews or catholics. So I concur about new ways but the black community in the usa hasn't had time to settle as a community since the war between the states and that can be problematic when you are trying to organize.