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@Pioneer1 i comprehend your position or your point , but it has one fatal flaw, the future is never really known, and remember one little thing, you speak of the usa as you live in it, but the usa has fewer black people in it than brasil, the usa has far fewer black people than in south america or africa or asia. maybe black people in africa/asia/south america will be better off if the usa is defeated by russia/china... I don't know to be honest, but I can't say I am sure either way

@Pioneer1 well right:) you are the common self interested patriot or matriot

@Pioneer1 very funny:) haha @ProfD it is an old trick, you rattle the saber to start wars. Schrumpt knows, if you sable rattle long enough someone will bite and then you have a war, which is the most financially profitable or governmentally safe state in the usa, in the last few decades easily

@ProfD so the kalo in india, the habshi in india who are black, while asian, are anti black? I know some of them, from the ones i know i don't think so. Now by Black if you mean anti African well ok I know some who are plus some who are not. if you mean by anti black , anti Black DOSer ok.I know some who are while some who are not. and I will say that most populaces in asia are very tribal Profd. the han chinese are disliked by many other cultural races in china. In Nippon, the former japanese princess had to give up her title because she married a commoner , he isn't okinawan or Ainu, he isn't fiscally poor, he is merely a commoner by bloodline so... Asians tend to be very tribal, again, gandhi couldn't get rid of the caste in india for a reason. Humans still view other humans have poisonous shadows in india. I think some people in the usa don't comprehend, when people from outside the usa come into the usa, the usa doesn't demand they change their heritage or culture. All the usa ask is you follow the law, but the modern law of the usa isn't a cultural thing, it is very much about individual freedom or communal allowance. so, the peoples of color, fred hampton rainbow nation, frederick douglass composite nation is more a Black DOS heritage in the usa than other people in the usa.

@Pioneer1 well, yes, zambo is half black african or negro /half first people or indios or native american Alvino is euqivalent to octaroon basically a mulatto, half white european half black african , has a child with a white european it is a quadroon , a 4th not white european, the comparative term i forget. But when the quadroon has a child with a white european is it an octaroon , an eigth not white european or an alvino. Alvino + albino have a similar root meaning white. The idea with alvino is this is some who has achieved through lineage , a true white label. remember the modern american continent in the past was completely cut up in english/french/spanish/portuguese/dutch parts and that was it, those five. But, four of them: french/spanish/portuguese/dutch barely brought white european women, so all four of them started a culture of mixed race children as landowners, which creates the modern heritage all of those sectors share. But the english brought many white european women, so in the english part of the white european imperial cut up of modernly called American Continent, mixed babies were treated negatively, ala the one drop rule, whereas in haiti even before desallines/all through spanish or portuguese domains/in dutch new amsterdam for example, white black babies were land owners because those white european men didn't bring their local woman so ... Outdated is a dangerous term... is it common? no, is it in the streets of rio or tinochtichtlan or caracas ? no but in certain communities, old wealth in latin america, including haiti, people will ask who are you, and not just are you a good person or have money, what is your lineage. The point of the castas is race by lineage. Is it opposite of the one drop rule heritage in the usa specifically? yes , very much so. You used the word concoction, a thing cooked up. To this day in europe, people in certain communities want to know lineage as far back. That sort of detailing can be tiresome especially up against the usa individualism, but I argue it is better for a set of populaces: indigenous of all phenotype/white european/black african that aren't friends or allies or equals to have a detailed lineage concern over a one drop rule which led to a ton of passing. but the majority in the usa and the larger humanity it governs have adopted the individualism mantra of the usa, which on the positive level, rejects the need for lineage knowing or detailed background, focusing on the now of an individual. @Troy It is interesting that you suggest simplification when I didn't suggest anything was simple, I simply definition. The human genome is a very large compound, one of the largest chemicals out there. and that doesn't include how it relates to its cousin rna, but here is the problem. You accept the mapping of dna + rna is true. and it is proven that people who are born with uncommon traits [albinism/melanism/fewer toes or fingers/various brain qualities] usually have changes in that sequence, the health of the mother or womb is the other factor, that is environmental. But it is fact that a baby born with certain uncommon dna qualities with have changes in their appearance, and skin color, is appearance. But no one... in this multilog is denying none of said folk are human. The genetic knowledge seekers know the exact genes for hair or eye color. That is phenotype. But I comprehend your position, it comes from the frederick douglass heritage, you accept the existence of the human race, plus you accept the sub race of gender, both are proven through gene sequence, as humans has differences from their dna sequence in length or placement/composition to non humans, while the genetic sequence in humans has known markers for male/female/hermaphrodite , but you oppose, as frederick douglass that skin color or more complex phenotypical classifications can be determined through the gene sequence explicitly. Yes all elements of living organisms can change to environment, but I am 100% a baby with milk pinkish skin side a baby with dark chocolate skin have either direct genetic markers or have a specific arrangement of genetic markers that can be tested to be for all similar babies. I don't think what i just said is simple, just the truth. ahhh now I see, I have to always remember when I speak with you, you look at race in a very other way than I do. And thus we shouldn't communicate on this issue, because we are not talking about the same thing. When I say race i mean any form of classification or ordering. You define race very specifically compared to me, so.. on that note, it nulifies any position. You said before I was simple, but I am not being simple, I am being different. Your definition and mine aren't the same so it is automatic rejection of terms of definitions. Which isn't a problem but from a multilog perspective is dysfunction, it just leads to either of us naysaying each other. the albino, at least specifically skin color is not eye color, or shapes and fingers or similar. I admit, I do compose fastidiously at times, especially when I find myself repeating and I find this topic of race is a constant repeat of statements by all of us , over and over, which frustrates me. cause the reality is, when a group of people don't share the same definition for the basic elements of an issue then it is dysfunctional to talk on it. You and I and various other members of this online community don't share the same definition of race so any multilog on details of race between us is what exactly? It is inevitable opposition. And we are usually positive in tone in this forum but the point of these discussions is dead. If people talk about a murder case but they don't share the same definition of murder, then... this goes back to my point online all the time, you ask for a reputable source, but didn't define a reputable source. Again, your statement suggest that you or i share the definition of reputable source or define two things similarly as a reputable source. you tell me the sources that you find reputable. this is why I am so verbose in here, when I say how i think i go into the definitions of my words. I define black, i define african i define this or that in my post for that exact reason so when a person reads they comprehend exactly what I think a certain thing is. so to answer your question. I can't. I have no way to prove in any way. The reason being cause I have no idea what you think is judged correctly. and I am not assuming what I think is reputable is the same to your own. Because race to me has infinite definitions . I have said many times in here, race is any form of classification. I repeatedly say in here, race based on phenotype, religion, gender, age, language, geography , genetics, ancestry or other. I didn't say all races are based on genetics. Christian is a race, it isn't based on genetics. But religious race is real. Provable for me through adherence to a religions rules. gender race is real, provable for me through genetics. Remember, the whole point of the trans community is that they say gender is not provable through genetics. they say it is proven through the soul of the individual. so again, race has infinite definitions but is always real. It is a natural thing all lifeforms use and can be used negatively or positively. And I don't have a problem with that truth. @ProfD One thing I tend to say white asian in here, the term black is pehnotypical, but chinese is geographic. Chinese come in all sorts of phenotypes. White or Black are phenotypical designations or races. It is like when people say Blacks and JEws, these are two different racial types. Jew is a religious racial type, Black is phenotypical, they are not the same. a Black Jew looks like me, has a similar phenotype and "black jews" is a racial category with subraces: falashas from ethiopia/ the beta israelites who yell on corners on sunday/the late 1800s early 1900s black zionist jews, similar to the black muslims of the same period that became the nation of islam. my point being, be careful when using racial terms that don't have the same basis. When black DOSers, notice the use, not all descended of enslaved people are black... when Black DOSers say our enslaved forebears were american i say yes, but they weren't statian, a term i use representing the usa. Remember before the war between the states, most whites in the usa used the nomenclature from the state they were in, which is appropriate. New Yorker /Californian/Virginian/ et cetera . America is from canada to argentina. This is why I Call myself for example Black male stateless heterosexual nationalist - which equates to five races: phenotypical/gender/citizenry/fornicative/governance but to your point specifcially, most white asians in china/india or elsewhere don't treat black asians positively, so why other black people in the usa? @Pioneer1 that is a latin american heritage element, in anglo america , english speaking american continent, one drop rule is embedded in phenotypical labeling. I comprehend your pint but it isn't in the heritage in the usa. Now maybe with the growth of latin americans into the usa and the mixing of peoples, we are seeing the rise of that third option, the word brown i believe is used for the non white while also non black in the usa more and more. So jumping outside of things that should or shouldn't be which i don't think apply with race, the culture of modern usa has created a brown classification that opposes the black/white/indian trichotomy in the past with Black/Brown/White/Native American, I will argue that depending on how things go, Brown may become dominant over white or black

@Troy I think all humans know humanity is one species right but even in that context, their are midgets, people with cerebral palsy, people born a certain way, certains ways are races. Genetic lineage is race, your name is troy johnson, johnson ia a clan name but a clan is a race, their re many johnson clans, based on genetic lineage, easily proven through dna test, those clans are races within the human race. And even with phenotype, let's be blunt, phenotype, appearance has genetic markers. If someone ask to prove they are in your bloodline troy? the dna sequence will expose if they have relation to you If someone ask to prove they are black like you? the dna sequence will expose their phenotype, even if they are albino, because the dna sequence for your skin color, eye shape, nose, will still be in theirs, even if albino. If someone ask to prove their african lineage like you? the dna sequence will expose their geographic genetic ancestry. Some forms of race are provable today through dna, but they didn't need proof. All forms of race are based on something and where anyone fits with said something determines if they are a member of said race or not. In latin america, they had the castas which made terms like negro, alvino or zambo based on the lineage. but in anglo america they had the one drop rule which made black based on the lineage. negro means black but in the context of latin america or anglo america it is two difference racial definitions. In the casta having a negro ancestor doesn't mean you are automatically negro. In the one drop having a white ancestor aside a black ancestor doesn't mean you are a particular race not white or black.

haha @Pioneer1 that is positive,

@Pioneer1 yes your point is clear now

@umbrarchist I have heard white people call europe a subcontinent @Pioneer1 first you said this second this third this Ok, first was a racial designation you accept. no problem, race is a natural thing, open to be defined infinite ways, but no way is wrong or right, only adhered to or not. second is an administrative desire , with the unknown factors of properly educated and trained experts which are totally open ended. who determines a proper education or expert training? I realize you have a definition of both but do others share this. and law enforcement in the usa, while they have a racial labeling system , I do not consider educated positively [proper is true, it is for themselves, but clearly negative to those they interact with in the usa] or trained positively [their actions in the field prove their training is negative, expert as in built from the experience of a heritage abusing others absent penalty, yes, very expert in that sense ] third, you refer to the nomenclature of usa law enforcement, which is different from the nomenclature of chinese law enforcement or russian law enforcement. Now to defend me or @Troy we were focused on education, and race in education. Which your points to me don't connect to. to be blunt, if you teach a child that race should be as the law enforcement of the usa designates that would be an educational disservice. I will say this, if I am the leader of a school, I will not allow that for the law enforcement of the usa's racial designations are not only ignorant but have a heritage of false implication which is one of the key things you have to teach children not to do. Making universal assumptions on partially accepted racial views is the primary negative with how humans deal with race. No racial view is universally accepted, nor can be. So me nor Troy deny that law enforcement in the usa, which has an ugly history, has a set of racial designations. But to suggest law enforcement in the usa warrant adherence ... I oppose. And I oppose totally accepting the application of said designation onto me as i live in the usa. By your reckoning Kunta should had accepted his name was Toby then. Your first name/primary name is a race. @ProfD race isn't a social construct, you call yourself human, the species of this planet are races, the dolphins/humans/woodpeckers are all species who have within their group variances, woodpeckers comes in many forms, orcas are dolphins and yet orcas look different than the dolphins people love to see swimming merrily in the ocean, in the same way black humans or white humans are humans. Phenotype is a valid racial designation. The problem with phenotype is that it has a long heritage by humans of denying humanity to other humans. Do you know why a male lion kills a baby lion made from another male lion and a female lion? because it isn't the male lions baby. In the same way you have a family name, a race, and humans in clans have killed members of opposing clans. Do you know how a clan of woodpeckers in a tree in the south west who look identical to human eyes, can tell the difference between another woodpecker of another clan from another tree? phenotype, in the same way blacks have killed fellow humans who appear white while whites have killed fellow humans who appear black. This is what I tried to explain about history books, races/categories/nomenclatures are natural, but they are not rigid things. Races change that is the social aspect that @Troy and others refer but it isn't a construct of humans it is a natural thing in all life. To say it is a social construct is to reduce a natural thing that is in all life, to a human choice. That is human arrogance. Race is like the constant of integration. If some one says, B^2 , b an unknown value to the second power. The integral is (B^3)/3+C why , the C is a real value but not determinable. Race is like that, it isn't meant to have a rigid definition like the number 2, everyone knows 2 is 2, but it is naturally present like the number 2. @Pioneer1 In Amendment, you said but here is the thing, the president of the united states of america is always referred to as from a state in the usa, do you know why? the usa's best racial classification is federation. Federation is a race of governments, which include brasil or nigeria. The USA isn't a nation state, like Monaco or swaziland. The nation states in the usa are the states, remember each colony in the british empire was treated as an individual entity. New York is a nation. Pennsylvania is a nation. The USA is a federation, my point being, back to history or history books, race requires a detail about affairs that most often, history books made from the white european populace don't have. But are needed.

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@Troy In Amendment, one of the problems with education of all subjects in white european based schools are subjects are presented as if universally accepted. This is why Nippon is called Japan. Why the history of various peoples in humanity is deemed this or that. why the system of government in the usa is called the optimum form of democracy. All these things are not universally accepted but presented as such. I argue the better thing to teach is that what you are taught isn't universally accepted and no universally accepted definition is needed.

@Pioneer1 I see where your coming from, but in the usa, most people across all phenotypes or all other racial categories love the freedom of the individual to reject an implied definition by a lager body, whether the government, the local religious group, their parents, the city government, or the popular clic in the park. I don't think most people are confused in the usa, they love their individual self, and the collectives in the usa [parties of governance /clans/religious groups/scholastic communities/ advocacy groups/ and all others ]rarely are inviting or warm or purposeful as they need to be for their various flocks. @Troy Right the strangification to harlem is one of the results of Harlem being a former black neighborhood in a white city. right, white city government on a black neighborhood. It's funny the white jewish woman who is suing the yeshiva schools is saying the school her child is going to has negative scholastic qualities as you suggest the public school you went to had, and the yeshiva schools are segregated, how are they funded.. I am unsure, no article was willing to reveal that, the mother suggests little is going on at least with her child. The funny thing is, while the public school you went to which was funded by the white city government probably has many who think like you do of it , the yeshiva school , which gets public funds, defended itself saying it has the right to have the curriculum it has, which stings me. I can tell you that white/white asian/white latino/arab/ and all populaces outside of black people in new york city have failing schools , many of them, failing students, many of them , but for some reason, all non black populaces in nyc don't make a big deal of their failing schools or failing students. Troy , why do blacks, the DOSers, treat our failed students or failed schools like that? is it the unique history of enslavement ?all DOSers had in 1865 was education, no land, no money, no power, so all we had was education for self worth. Is that it? all humans know education is important. but no group hounds their failing students or judges so negatively schools with their children than black folks. why? I do feel sad for black people in nyc who failed in the scholastic system as children and had to deal with the houndings of black people, especially their elders, while all these other populaces in nyc have just as much failure if not moreso. but , no one seems to give a ... Eric Adams got on television and made so many speeches about black children as not doing enough, coming from broken homes, and needing mental help while black children were doing average. But when he gets the statistics from the state run test all children get, to white schools that return over 90% failure, no speech, what about those white kids mental health, or aspirational energy, where is all the condenmation that could easily be given to black children for being average, that is totally absent to failed white children, who i may add are in a school run by their literal elders. I .. [and for the record I went to public schools all over ninety five percent black, I will say averagely funded, I can't say if under or above the average, so any one reading this, the problem isn't public schools, and my parents went to public schools in nyc, sadly for them with all white teachers or mostly white teachers] Well.... how you teach a subject matters and the history of education in white european countries which the USA is has always been about defining what is correct, not discourse, not multilog, not study. It is about stating what is correct and drilling it into children's minds to make that statement correct in beyond the schools in normal discourse of the day. Most history books, and all history books for children elementary age [including at the private schools or great public schools] don't even go into a proper explanation of race/government/peace/war/naming things/variances in human heritage or culture/ and more which they should before they go into the history of humans beings. In this very forum with adults, black adults, the definition of black is not uniform, so how can black history be explained to the elementary children in the usa satisfactorily when the goal is pushing concepts as true or false. Black isn't african, white isn't european. The book you say said Black history started with slavery, properly worded enslavement. also said slavery ended in the usa, which is a lie. So I just want to say many children's education in the usa is based on poorly taught subjects. MAny , and said many includes most whites as well.

@Pioneer1 Vanakum Here is the thing about the census, I comprehend completely that the arab is the ancient mulatto, but if they put white on the census well...:)

hahahah thank you @ProfD @Pioneer1 @Troy namaste:) @umbrarchist that is an excellent question for the forum? the ten must have's mandatories... lot of books to sift through, that is a challenge. One thing is for certain, some big names have to be off that list in all earnest. The literary heritage of the black populace in the usa is quite grand, to just have ten books.. that is a challenge. @Pioneer1 you just dictated what the exoduster movement was all about. but why did they fail? yes, whites burned/isolated/harmed/poisoned many, potentially all, of their towns. But what was the problem with other blacks? well... The black colleges, Booker t washington, mostly financed by white churches, knew the distant locations for the exodusters, who had to go west to start fresh, was too far for the connection to white churches, especially in congregation. The talented tenth, web dubois, were anti seperatists, they wanted a complete positive integration Garveyites were supportive, many exodusters were garveyites, the idea of a black city in a state in the usa, isn't the exact garveyite goal, but it has enough black empowerments and para isolationism that it gelled. Frederick Douglass, the most vocal black leader at the time, was vehemently against the exodusters. It isn't that he hated black empowerment but truly believed in the composite nation future of the usa, a myriad of peoples , like highly multicolored marble. The peoples are not the same but are so tightly bound to each other they are one, and the separatism of the exodusters was in opposition to that. Like what you say, the exoduster movement wasn't anti usa, or even at its heart anti white, but it was black empowerment/safety/flexibility within the usa aside the enemy white populace in the usa. So the exoduster movement has been dead for over one hundred years and the modern black populace , circa 2025 , unlike in the late 1800s, is highly urbanized so... what you call for is functional, but that is a task. I argue for what it is worth focusing on black towns or counties in the usa with a populace 75% and above which is black and growing one/a set/or long term them all them from the black urban populaces or black populaces that live in white cities or counties. white man says, three cities over 100,000 people have a populace that is over seventy five percent black. Detroit, wayne county[which is majority white] , michigan state which is majority white Jackson , hinds county[ which is majority black], mississippi state which is majority white South Fulton, fulcton county [ which is half black], georgia state which is majority white Now how many counties are majority black, over fifty percent black in the usa, by white man's account Mississippi 25 - and yes white man list hinds as one Georgia 22 Alabama has 11 South Carolina 9 Virginia 9 North Carolina 8 Louisiana 7 arkansas 6 US virgin islands 3 - 100% of the counties of the us virgin islands, the only state/territory with 100% black counties Tennessee 2 Puerto rico 1 maryland 3 florida 1 So based on citiies over 100,000 in the usa plus comparing states with the most black counties. Start in Jackson Mississippi and include all the other black counties. or try the virgin islands Population matters, trust me, black people try to sell strategy, I don't care how much money or how attune you are, if you don't have the numbers, sooner or later the majority will hurt you. So go Pioneer! We all believe in you. county referral https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_majority-Black_counties_in_the_United_States cities referrall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._cities_with_large_Black_populations but getting the majority of DOSers , millions of people, in a wholesale gesture....that is a task. @Troy It is interesting, the black neighborhoods in nyc/la or other white cities were broken up by more positive integration but I argue, said action exposed what separates a black neighborhood in a white city from a black populace in a black city. A Black Neighborhood in a white city, like harlem, has a huge problem, that it can't evade. It isn't the majority. when I look at the history of harlem, it is clear to me that in an elected system you need the votes, you do. The white orthodox jewish neighborhoods problem in new york city with the schools is that , once one of their own started that court case, the money + influence is simply not enough. And their schools are getting penalized. Their money is making it not as hard as if harlem when black had such terrible grades. And the proof is, Guiliani + Bloomberg pushed charter schools in harlem, with a lot of black help, even though the average grading of black children in harlem was average to better. It wasn't negative like the white orthodox jewish students who by state run test assessments had over 90% failure. Troy can you imagine what black elected officials would say if any black populace in nyc had over 90% failure on state run test? Like David Dinkins tenure with crime, Black students in NYC have been falsely criminalized as failing dangerously, when the truth is, they kept up with the average. The problem is, it wasn't 100% or 0% and too many black people keep wanting that in all things for black folk. But, post vent, the white jewish community had to accept school closings and a state monitor, even though they didn't want to. And that is because you need the votes. Note, Detroit in the 1950s/1960s/1970s, with the Black Flight, was majority white, a white city. Detroit became majority Black, a Black city, in the 1980s after the collapse of the usa auto industry and the collapse of detroit as the auto capitol. The Black sin is, while whites were leaving detroit en masse,Motown, the weatlhiest black owned firm, from Detroit, chose to leave Detroit while it was still majority white, for a white city. Jewish schools in nyc https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/6477-richardmurray/?status=2064&type=status Detroit demographics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit#Demographics

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