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boitumelo

SEX AND BLACK WOMEN.

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REPEATING A QUESTION/WHY DO BLACK WOMEN ALLOW THE BLACK MAN TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT HE SHOULD PUT ON A CONDOM//.IF SHE GETS PREGNANT SHE WILL RAISE THE CHILD/ IF BLACK MEN DO NOT WANT THE RESPONSIBILITY OF RAISING A CHILD ,THEY SHOULD PUT ON A CONDOM.BLACK WOMEN SHOULD SAY TO BLACK MEN BEFORE SEX,PUT ON A CONDOM OR NO SEX/...BLACK MEN PUT ON A BOX OF CONDOMS...////

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This argument is just like "Just Say No" argument. In the heat of the moment, many women and men, obviously have difficulty putting on a condom before sex. Apparently Plan B or is too much trouble too.

It would seem to me the majoirty of out of wedlock or teen pregnancies are by women (it is their bodies) who actually want to have the babies. All of the many circumstances I'm aware of this has been the case... The ones who did not want the children demonstrated this in their behavior.

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Cynique, I was rasied in governement subsidized housing "the projects" located in the protypical inner city of Spanish Harlem. I remember when an out of wedlock, teenage preganancy (a rare event) was looked upon with shame, frowned upon. One girl I knew just "went down south" for some unexplained reason. I later learned she was pregnant.

It seemed, overnight, teenagers everywhere around here were pushing baby carriages. I find it astonishing that attitudes and behavior in the 'hood could change so profoundly, so quickly.

What caused the attitudes to chage? Abortions are more easily obtained. Condoms are freely available, the way mints once were in the neighborhood.

I'm inclinded to think it has to do with the fact that today, a woman, can survive (thrive even) as a single parent -- even one who is undereducated, young and poor. 50 years ago, this would have been much more difficult. What do you think?

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I'm inclinded to think it has to do with the fact that today, a woman, can survive (thrive even) as a single parent -- even one who is undereducated, young and poor. 50 years ago, this would have been much more difficult. What do you think?

I think you are in denial of reality and the obvious.......

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Well, Troy, I’ll preface my observations with the caveat that I am neither a sociogist nor an anthropologist, but am an interested observer who has lived through several eras of the black experience. What follows are strictly my personal conclusions.

In response to your question, I would start off by referring to that old “poor but proud” designation, the implication of which is just because people are poor does not mean that they have no sense of pride in being respectable. Back in the day, most urban black people were on the fringes of poverty and, as a result, millions of them flocked to the affordable living provided by the housing projects which had sprung up all over the country. Many occupants of these low income conclaves, however, turned out to be those who gave rise to the growth of a black middleclass, - achievers who originally came from the projects but who because of their family values and work ethics and the new opportunities being provided by the concurrent civil rights movement, were able to escape their deprivation and become affluent enough to be “from” the Projects instead of “in” the Projects.

What the exodus of the upwardly mobile left behind in public residences were those who, for whatever reason, could not or would not do for themselves, folks that settled into an existence that made them dependent on collecting welfare. If having no father in the home was what guaranteed financial assitance for mothers and their dependant children, then so be it.

Added to all of this was how society at large was changing, its rules being challenged by the emergence of a free-spirited counter culture shaking up the status quo. The entertainment media, in particular, contributed to the liberation from America’s Puritanism. And because the high visibility of Celebs cast them as role models, they set the pace by taking the stigma out of questionable behavior, something their fame and fortune allowed them to do without being ostracized.. Marriage was deemed irrelevant (unless it involved same-sex couples) shacking up, and out-of-wedlock births was no big deal as the U.S. became a nation of people doing their own thing. And because they’d become very adept at manipulating The System, welfare recipients seemingly figured that they might as well emulate the celebrities as long as the government was subsidizing their lifestyle.

So, the ghettos became enclaves bursting at the seams with an overload of fatherless children whose unmarried mothers ended up having a problem raising them alone. And if the male children spawned by this situation managed to survive the hazards of their environment, they invariably grew up to be poor marriage material. Consequently, a fretting generation of single black career women with ticking biological clocks, were left with nothing to do but consider their options about motherhood. So you are correct, Troy, in saying that many women do choose single parenthood - and thrive. Is making this decision the best case scenario? Don’t ask me. I’m just a spectator

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Cynqiue, I posed to the question, to everyone really, but to you in particular because you have lived through "..several eras of the black experience..." that experience must have been dizzying. Plus Cynique, you have a clarity of thought that I admire.

I've read ton's of articles and a few books on various aspects of the points you so concisely summarized. Your opinions mirror much of what I've read.

While I've read about the great inpact our communities suffered as a result of the Black middle class leaving communties for the vanilla suburbs, I never fully appreciated the impact of this shift until I was an adult. I grew up in an environment devoid of career professionals. Almost no one went to college. If they did go to college they never came back. I did not come back myself for almost 20 years.

My kids spent the 2nd half of their childhoods growing up in the same neighborhood I did. I always say that they might as well have grown up on different planets. Not so much because the neighborhood is so much better, but because they have had access to people in every concievable profession, socio-economoical level, and race. This difference is due largerly to having my wife and I as parents, and to the private schools and summer camps they attended.

All the kids I knew growing up were Black or Puetro Rician. I did not know a white person my age until I entered high school (remember I grew up in majority white New York City).

In today's Harlem the extreme stratifcation of race and class still exists -- it exisits, despite more upper middle class Black and White people living in Harlem now than anytime in the previous half a century.

The classes rarely mix.

Anyone who can sends their chidlren to private school. Poor people and those without options langish in failing schools. The last time I checked every middle school in my district was a failing school. I owned a Brownstone across the street from the Harlem Sucess Academy (the charter school highlighted in the film "Waiting for Superman"), but the number of students that school can accomodate is minuscule.

If I go to one of the nice new Black restaurants, I never see anyone from my block except for the new arrivals like myself -- understandably -- the restaurants are expensive. But the interest in going it not there; "I'm not spending all that money just to eat." or "I ain't sittin' up in there with all those white folks".

The cultural differences are profound -- even trumping racial differences.

So in communities like Harlem where you have Black and white professionals returning, the result is that the poorer people are being forced out rather than adopting middle class values...

This will come to a head one day.

Don't even get me stared on the impact of celebrity culture :angry:

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I consider myself a very strong woman who protects & asserts herself.

But even I....have had horrible trouble trying to insist that a man wears a condom when

penetrating **MY BODY**. It's very sad.

We really are weak to men. Some of us have horrible insecurity and fear rejection if we don't give in to the male's

desire for flesh on flesh. Others are unfairly asked to "prove you love me" by not demanding a condom.

Then there's the ones of us who really want that "feel" of real dick inside us. No plastic popsickle wrappers and stuff.

Humans need touch; connection; ownership of each other. Sex is one of the few "condoned" activities where people

get to show their real true souls...good and bad.

So this is a very hard topic, because sex is so fleeting yet so important for our emotional and psychological health.

I have been lucky and not contracted any diseases in my 41 years.

But God knows, it's not because I was necessarily safe. Since the AIDS virus & Herpes hit the scene...I would say that

I have been "flesh to flesh" with 25% of my encounters. And doing the "oral"--I just can't do it with a rubber on the guy.

Takes everything away from the act. So I had to get "picky" about who got a Soul Kiss and who didn't. Sex is awful for

our generation. We really are haunted and terrorized by sex. I envy the 1960's and 1970's "sexual revolution" Orgy time

generation. I wish we all could hump so freely.

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So, the ghettos became enclaves bursting at the seams with an overload of fatherless children whose unmarried mothers ended up having a problem raising them alone. And if the male children spawned by this situation managed to survive the hazards of their environment, they invariably grew up to be poor marriage material

Well, that says it all. No need to go any further. The contemporary "baby mama drama culture" is the pancreatic cancer of black America. Tragically, there is nothing in the near or far future that is going to turn it around. Black women (as a group) have the ultimate power to end their number one demographic status for STD's, AIDS and OWB's by demanding their sex partners use condoms. But that is not going to happen. Figure the odds. The devolution of the American Negro will continue unabated and unchallenged. Sad, real sad........

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Plus Cynique, you have a clarity of thought that I admire.

Don't even get me stared on the impact of celebrity culture :angry:

Ditto on both points. I'm always reading excerpts from Cynique's posts to my husband. We love them!

As for the celebrity culture - can you say waste of airtime? I'll be so glad when we figure that one out.

Regarding sex & the use of condoms, I agree with Kola Boof:

We really are weak to men. Some of us have horrible insecurity and fear rejection if we don't give in to the male's

desire for flesh on flesh.

The only thing I can think of as far as a "reason" for this issue is that there are some things that people are willing to play Russian roulette for - sex is one of them...in fact, sex might be the ONLY thing, or at least right there at the top of the list.

I have friends who are lonely and dating and I know for a fact that they are not making these men wrap up. Keep in mind that my little group of friends and I are not young, clueless kids. We are in our 40s, we are working women, we are sensible - supposedly. But when it comes to sex...sigh...it's the same old story.

I know I was no perfect angel in my twenties & I've dropped the ball myself a couple of times, but at this age would you believe that I still get calls from friends talking about pregnancy scares? Really? No birth control? No condoms? Really? At our age?

But it (unprotected sex) happens - all the time. And I think it has everything to do with loneliness and wanting an emotional connection with a man. When I mention condoms, my girls are quick to remind me that just because I'm married doesn't mean my sex is safe. "Your husband could cheat on you...So how 'bout YOU buy some condoms."

So, in their minds, sex with a condom is only necessary if you are literally in it for a quick one night stand. But if you really care about the guy, you'll do what you have to do to keep him...and many times that means letting him go in without protection. And when he leaves you, then you start over with the next dude. Before you know it, you're three dudes deep in two years (and I'm being kind because the statistics with my friends are far worse than that --- oh I hope they never read this) and that would be three dudes without protection.

Hell, with those numbers you wouldn't be able to pinpoint the source of HIV if you were unlucky enough to contract it. And now I hear that they have this new one --- a mouth cancer that comes from oral with somebody who has HPV? smh. We should all be "scurred" but when it comes to sex, we just aren't. We roll the dice and pray for negative test results.

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Writergirl I'm pleased to hear you are sharing Cynique's contributions.

I'm afraid however we will never get rid of celebrity culture. Until the lives of the general population are more full, we will need to live vicariously through the lives of celebrities who we perceive are better.

Of far as raw sex, people are human and often revert to baser instincts. Unfortunately, your friends are right. Married people are not all that safe either. They should know, if you catch my drift :wub: .

Also, men hate condoms. Especially as men age the need to "feel it" is much more important for the physical process.

There but for the grace of God...

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Yep, Troy, they are right...and they KNOW what they are talking about. lol. unfortunately...

So at the end of the day, whether you're married or single, when you don't make your partner use a condom you're putting your life in somebody else's hands. You're trusting him or her to do the right thing and not get you caught up. I suppose there's no safe sex except no sex. But that goes against human nature. Sigh...we do what we can. Me & the ladies pretty much gave up on the round table discussions of this particular issue a few years ago. It always ended up nowhere.

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What I discovered over the years is that all problems don't have solutions. And sex, unfortunately, has evolved into such a problem because nowadays it can be hazardous to your health. Livin in the moment, enjoying mind-blowin sex can end up blowin your mind, indeed, if you get herpes or HIV or worst yet - A BABY and the dead beat daddy that comes with it.

Condoms a deal breaker? Trojans have come up with an alternative for vulnerable single women by now putting out a line of personal massagers, a product for which this reliable old brand is currently running an ad campaign on TV. Have times changed, or what? I've just become de-sensitized to graphic ads for tampons, - and now this. Vibrators, y'all. Booty calls challenging your resistance? Just conjure up a fantasy and crank up your ol handy titillating dildo. :rolleyes: (Like I need to tell anyone this.)

Life is full of little ironies. Seems like everything we enjoy is bad for us! It's like De Lawd is punishing us for not being uptight and chaste until we decide we want to fulfill our duty to be fruitful and multiply. It's enough to make you lose your religion. :huh:

What needs to be developed is a vaccination that would immunize humans against STDS. Then everybody could just enjoy themself doing what comes naturally. A pregnancy vaccine ain't a bad idea, either, if it could be reversed when just cause is given for bringing a child into this crazy world.

Beat Newt to the punch, Obama, and include this agenda in your re-election campaign, White people would vote for you in droves since they think this deterrent would only apply to black folks. :P

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I believe the issue of sex has to go deeper than just putting on a condom. I believe sisters should get a commitment before sex. Our women are beautiful people and should be treated with the utmost respect.Brothers should be willing to be responsible for the sister they want to have sex with.Sisters should respect themselves more. Sisters don't be a rest stop be the destination. If you're not his destination tell him to keep movin'. Ladies your private parts aren't a playground but a sacred place but in order to get respect from brothers you must respecr self first. Many brothers will wear a condom and then throw the sister away just like he did the condom.

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Tansoba, those are really beautiful sentiments. How do you propose that we, as a society (or at least black folks), make this happen?

For example when you say, "I believe sisters should get a commitment before sex.", what does that mean? Should sisters wait for marriage, an engagement (including a ring), a verbal expression of committment -- what?

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As a people I think we need to develop more mentorship relationships between our adults and our youth. But let's not blame the young because the adults are supposed to lead the way..

It's an up hill battle due to all the non sense that is fed to our people's minds through movies, television, loose morals, etc. I wish marriage could instantly turn a "player" into a responsible man but that is not that case he has to be a resposible man already. I have found that brothers(actually all men in general) will do almost anything to attract the woman they want. I have seen brother pull their pants up to their waist because the sisters that they wanted to date said they didn't date guys who wore their pants low-brothers will go as far as you tolerate.Sisters you are the reason we wear the clothes we wear, wear the cologne we wear, drive the car we drive, and so on. If enough sisters told brothers that they are not going to get anything from them until they were sure that he was going to stay in place and make a serious effort to provide a secure future for both of them then you would see a lot more brothers change for the better.

A large part of that has to be your demand (not asking) for respect of your body. Your are wonderful and precious and should be treated as such, not like you're good for only one thing. Your whole being is better than that sex is just a bonus.

Europeans and Arabs invaded Africa over and over again to get the most precious jewel all of Cush had to offer-our women.

Some of the answers to this question is in the documentary "Dark Girls".

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"I have found that brothers(actually all men in general) will do almost anything to attract the woman they want." Tansoba, Absolutely!

At some point we reached a tipping point where enough women will accept anything from a man.

Personally I was not raised to treat a women or anyone badly. Besides it is not in my nature. However I have observed guys treat women like crap. Over time as you grow up you begin to wonder if that behavior is the way you are SUPPOSED to teach a woman. The behavior is reenforced and seemingly works for many Brothers. The pimp archetype being the supreme master

I remember calling my girlfriend, in high school, a "bitch" I was not angry or anything just using the term to refer to her. She immediately put me in my place, I knew better, but figured I'd see what happened. I have never refereed to another woman as a bitch again.

As I got much older, I discovered that women who allow themselves to be mistreated have low self-esteems. Some Brothers seek these types of women out to exploit. Usually these guys have low self esteems themselves.

I also discovered this is not the type of woman I would find desirable for a long term relationship, or even spend much time around. Hence the likelihood of me calling someone a bitch, that I hang out with, approaches nill.

-----------------------------

More about Dark Girls

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Right on Brother Troy, right on! Bad treatment of Cushite (Black) women in our community seems to be at an epidemic level. I do not know where it's all coming from but much of that disrespect seems to be coming from the sisters not respecting themselves (which by the way does not give any brother the right to disrespect any sister). Too many of our men and women take more pride in being a sexual toy than they do in academic achievements. Sexual prowess seems to trump self respect every time, in this current society.

Too many of our women no longer believe their sexuality is something to be protected but instead explored like Indiana Jones in Raiders of the Lost Arc.A large number of sister feel that they have to sex because it is expected of them or they'll lose out, they think it's their only way to hold on to a man they want. But that strategy never works as they repeat it over and over again-it always ends the same way. You can not hold on to a man through sex. Men hold on to women they feel are important to their life, sex they can get almost anywhere.

I have seen nicely dressed women clinging to guys who wear their pants below their waist, they're settling (dropping their standards). Many sisters who want a brother feel they need to settle to be with the "average" one of us.I think this is due to the large number of brothers; who are incarcerated, who are in the cemetary, who are adult-boys, and who are irresponsible (which is a sign of immaturity).

I have been blessed to have dated many high quality sisters, they had high standards. They refused to drop their standards so because I really wanted to date them I had to bring my standards up, and keep them up. God bless those sisters-those high standards have enriched my life to this day.

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