The MTA in NYC says they lost +three hundred million dollars last year on fare evasion

[richardmurray]

The solution is simple, figure the bus routes that have the lowest percentage of fair evasion and then using 10% as a delimiter, stop all bus routes where the fair evasion is greater than ten percent. All the services in NYC from the bus to the subway to the projects were all started for sectors in the white populace of nyc, not the entire white populace in new york city, plus not the entire populace of new york city, but mayors or others [ushed to expand these services to all in new york city as if they were free. 

Just cut the bus services where the fair evasion is greater or equal to a certain percentage. 

It is simple, but no elected official will do that because people in new york city, who are mostly not black will complain about rights or services that in their mind should be de facto regardless of their financial cost. 

But the answer is simple. 

[Troy]

I’m not so sure the bus has the lowest fair evasion. I take the M60 from LaGuardia airport to my old neighborhood in Harlem several times a year and nobody pays to get on and I mean nobody. I know that’s just one bus line, but I also am aware that the drivers aren’t really enforcing payment of fairs. people get on the middle or the back of the bus and it’s all good. The problem is enforcement across-the-board. 
 

The MTA has set a standard that the penalty for evading payment of ones fare is nonexistent. 

[ProfD]

The question becomes how MTA can afford to *lose* $300 million and keep running.

 

The fares being collected must be enough to finance the whole operation and more.

 

Raising the fare a bit will cover the *loss* without affecting the customers too much or ridership.

[richardmurray]

21 minutes ago, Troy said:

I’m not so sure the bus has the lowest fair invasion. I take the M60 from LaGuardia airport to my old neighborhood in Harlem several times a year and nobody pays to get on and I mean nobody. I know that’s just one bus line, but I also am aware that the drivers aren’t really enforcing payment of fairs. people get on the middle or the back of the bus and it’s all good. The problem is enforcement across-the-board. 
 

The MTA has said a standard that the penalty for evading payment of ones fare is nonexistent. 

 

20 minutes ago, ProfD said:

The question becomes how MTA can afford to *lose* $300 million and keep running.

 

The fares being collected must be enough to finance the whole operation and more.

 

Raising the fare a bit will cover the *loss* without affecting the customers too much or ridership.

 

Well, ok

 

Cost of the NYC bus system' = [energy for vehicles<gas + electrical input>/vehicle repair <wheels/electrical /metalwork>/labor<bus drivers/repair people /retirement packages>]

Now, @Troy you say the problem is enforcement. well, that means an added expense of law enforcement, so 

Cost of the NYC bus system'' = Cost of the NYC bus system' + Law enforcement [cost of labor + retirement packages/union packages/guns/clothing/lawsuits from criminal behavior from law enforcers]

Now @ProfD ask hwo can the mta afford, well again the usa adds debt to itself yearly, that is what the debt is for. No country can call it in for th eusa military but the debt usa gains per year pays for itself. 

But, regardless of how the mta or other municipal elements pay for themselves, one of the following is true.

1) the mta isn't paying for itself and is being financed through a debt system

2) the mta system can pay for itself while run with such fare evasion

One of the two have to be true. No other options exist. 

If the first is true then that goes back to my original policy position, cut the service and focus on the bus routes that have the least fair evasion. And this isn't a grand thing for all municipal services in nyc were originally only for a small section of the city. The Subway, the bus , were all expanded over the years, but were originally inteded only for the wealthiest residents who could pay for it. 

if the second is true then the answer isnt raising the fare but making a financial cycle, such that  at the beginning of each cycle, the fare exists and once a certain level of revenue is earned the system makes the service totally free until the next cycle begins. 

Profd your position is arithmetically dysfunctional, if A= revenue needed to run the bus system B= revenue earned with the current quality of fare evasion C=revenue earned with greater fares. 

If B>=A then B+C isn't needed to reach a value >=A Your foundational opinion about the cost of the system doesn't warrant your strategy of increased fare. 

Troy your positions great flaw is the issue is cost of service, adding law enforcement to enforce the law is an added cost and can not guarantee it will be effective. Even if you want some sort of electronic system that system will cost money to design and to install so again, everything your suggesting goes against saving money. And, adds the bureaucratic problem of time. A mayor only has four years. Making nay plans that extend past four years is how municipal works get uddied in the agenda and views of multiple mayors which adds more money to the cost.  

 

[ProfD]

7 minutes ago, richardmurray said:

Profd your position is arithmetically dysfunctional, if A= revenue needed to run the bus system B= revenue earned with the current quality of fare evasion C=revenue earned with greater fares. 

If B>=A then B+C isn't needed to reach a value >=A Your foundational opinion about the cost of the system doesn't warrant your strategy of increased fare. 

Cool.  It was just an idea. I'm sure the folks at MTA know how to manage the bottom line.

[Pioneer1]

8 hours ago, ProfD said:

The question becomes how MTA can afford to *lose* $300 million and keep running.

 

For the same reason the United States is allegedly "in debt" but is still fully operating like nobody's business...lol.
Same reason many of the companies out there claim to be in the red....and have been so for years...but some how manage to keep operating.

 

And what reason is that?

Because people are LYING about their true financial status.

On top of that........
Most public transit systems get federal grants allocated to them.
MTA is probably getting MILLIONS of federal dollars free money, as well as millions from the STATE of New York and the CITY of New York....to maintain operations; so they aren't just relying on tokens from old ladies and niggas who decide to be nice and pay their fare and not jump turn-styes at subway stations....for their revenue.

[umbrarchist]

What can they do with facial recognition? Search for and track repeat offenders.  Find the travel patterns of repeat offenders. Have the police waiting for them when they get off. Pick a number of offenses to qualify as a felony.

[ProfD]

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Because people are LYING about their true financial status.

On top of that........
Most public transit systems get federal grants allocated to them.
MTA is probably getting MILLIONS of federal dollars free money, as well as millions from the STATE of New York and the CITY of New York....to maintain operations; so they aren't just relying on tokens from old ladies and niggas who decide to be nice and pay their fare and not jump turn-styes at subway stations....for their revenue.

Facts.

 

Losing money on a balance sheet is easy to do. Having iit show up in loss of operations or an inability to provide services would make it look more real.

 

During the pandemic, a local bus service provided free rides.

 

Even with fewer riders, the operations and maintenance still had to be paid. Same salaries, fuel and maintenance costs, etc.

 

Now, the fee is  still only $1 to ride that same local  bus.

 

There's definitely *money* coming from somewhere. Chalk it up to the sleight of hand finance and accounting  tricks better known as economics.

[Pioneer1]

ProfD

 

It's the American way.

 

Businesses around the world have learned from the United States government that all you have to do is CRY and PRETEND to be "broke" or better yet invent some boogie man that you supposedly "owe" a lot of money to.
That way you can reap all of the profits and revenue you like and spend it on what you WANT to spend it on, but as soon as your employees or citizens ask for raises or better benefits, you can point to your "debt" or these mysterious "debtors" you allegedly owe money to as an excuse to not break them off any bread.

 

Most people can't buy food, cars, and houses when they are just BROKE...let alone broke AND in debt.

But the government and various government services like schools will claim to be broke and out of funds for this and that, but still operate.
The school district is too "broke" to provide toilet paper and pens to their students, yet can come up with millions build porcelain sculptures of some naked white man in front school administrations building...lol.

 

[ProfD]

9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

It's the American way.

 

Most people can't buy food, cars, and houses when they are just BROKE...let alone broke AND in debt.

It's built into the system of capitalism.

 

Every 1st world economy uses the same house of cards to keep the general  population in check.

 

The system works  for the most part because the majority of people want:

 

 

 

Relatively speaking, only a handful of folks want more than their basic needs met in terms of food, clothing and shelter.

 

The illusion of a middle class is the trick that keeps the house of cards propped up.

[richardmurray]

19 hours ago, ProfD said:

Cool.  It was just an idea. I'm sure the folks at MTA know how to manage the bottom line.

@ProfD  Your initial proposition is important. If The MTA can run absent the money it is losing, that is important. No one in this group has the ability to prove or disprove such things. But the important part of your initial idea, is it is either true or not true. 

If it is not true, then that goes into other paths. But if it is true, which is what the second part follows. I argue, the best solution is to break up the cost of the system into  a quarterly or monthly or weekly basis, or some temporal cycle that has a paying and free internal period based on the revenue needed to be earned in the cycle to reach  the yearly sum needed to thrive. 

You say the mta know how to manage the bottom line? I don't know there books, neither do you or any in this group. I don't know why people assume a place is being managed well absent any proof. But I think the city council or mayoralty or elected officials in nyc should be considering all our different strategies. I know they are not, but that is the point for me. Another way to bring quality discourse into aalbc.

[richardmurray]

11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

For the same reason the United States is allegedly "in debt" but is still fully operating like nobody's business...lol.
Same reason many of the companies out there claim to be in the red....and have been so for years...but some how manage to keep operating.

 

And what reason is that?

Because people are LYING about their true financial status.

On top of that........
Most public transit systems get federal grants allocated to them.
MTA is probably getting MILLIONS of federal dollars free money, as well as millions from the STATE of New York and the CITY of New York....to maintain operations; so they aren't just relying on tokens from old ladies and niggas who decide to be nice and pay their fare and not jump turn-styes at subway stations....for their revenue.

well @Pioneer1 it isn't free, it is debt. The reason isn't people are lying, the reason is the debt is what is bought by china and other countries. The reason the debt can't be called in is the usa has the most powerful military in modern humanity. At the end of the day, if the us military [army/navy/air force/marines/seals/fbi/cia/nsa/blackwater/et cetera ]owes you millions of dollars, how can you get it from them? 

And your correct they are getting federal aid, every year. as are many other municipal programs which adds to the debt. 

BUT, the MTA said they are losing money so

A= the revenue from the federal government last year

B= the revenue from the bus last year

C= the revenue lost from fare evasion of the bus last year

D= the cost of running nyc's bus system [ labor/repair/fuel/union packages]

One of the following is true

(A+B)-C>D

(A+B)-C~D i use the tilde sign to represent near equal by some negligible factor or equal 

(A+B)-c<D 

 

 

If (A+B)-C>D then that goes to your position Pioneer, for you don't suggest any changes, so by suggesting nothing you suggest maintaining the status quo which is what the simple function articulates. But I argue that using federal funds for the municipal service is financially dysfunctional because it demands a reliance on external funds outside the city' control thus is financially irresponsible. if B-C!>D then in my view, my position should be followed, regardless of whatever federal money is derived. What say you? 

 

@Troy I don't know which is the propositions above is true but if (A+B)-C>D then is your position to add an expense in the form of law enforcement still maintained by you?

(A+B+[Gained fares by added expense of law enforcement])-(C+[expense of enforcement to eliminate lost fares] is >|~|< D

I don't know which will be true but I wonder your thoughts. 

 

@ProfD Do you concur that the payment for the mta comes through federal money, regardless of the source of such funds? I say the funds is the debt that is bought per year by many countries including, japan who have the most, and china who i think are next and are used as tradeable commodities, which  I find financially dubious. to trade in unpaid debt is unwise sooner or later. 

But regardless of how the federal government gets the money, or which of the three propositions are correct above,  which of them will you still want to raise fare rates if any? I will show them again here

(A+B)-C>D

(A+B)-C~D i use the tilde sign to represent near equal by some negligible factor or equal 

(A+B)-c<D 

[Pioneer1]

richardmurray

 

 

Man, are you serious with all of that algebra up there...lol.

 

You do that with umbrarchist, not me...lol.

 

 

If (A+B)-C>D then that goes to your position Pioneer, for you don't suggest any changes, so by suggesting nothing you suggest maintaining the status quo which is what the simple function articulates.

 

If it's working.
If the transit system is still operating under it and the riders aren't complaining....I say keep it until they decide to implement something better.

 

 

 But I argue that using federal funds for the municipal service is financially dysfunctional because it demands a reliance on external funds outside the city' control thus is financially irresponsible. 

 

I'm inclined to agree with you.
The same thing goes for the public school systems and other city and state services.
Most city and state services in the United States rely..to one degree or another...on federal funds for operations because the revenue they receive from taxes and other sources are simply not enough.

 

However keep in mind that as it's structured currently, the federal government's funds are almost inexhaustible.
They literally can MAKE UP as much money and distribute it however they like to whoever they like.
That being the case, I'd much rather see federal dollars go to support social services that benefit citizens like healthcare, public transportation, education, etc....instead of wars and foreign aid to racist countries like the Ukraine.

[richardmurray]

11 hours ago, umbrarchist said:

What can they do with facial recognition? Search for and track repeat offenders.  Find the travel patterns of repeat offenders. Have the police waiting for them when they get off. Pick a number of offenses to qualify as a felony.

Interesting @umbrarchist you want to add expenses to a system losing money, like Troy. 

A= revenue earned from the bus service in a year

B= revenue lost through fare evasion in a year

C= federal money to the bus service in a year

D= cost of the bus service

Now you add two revenue depletions

E= cost of law enforcement[ facial software design and testing and implementation/updates and security to the facial recognition system<it costs money to protect electronic security systems from hackers>/ law enforcement fuel+ time of labor]

F= cost of lawsuits to the city [ defense of lawsuits in a year + cost of successful lawsuits against the city and the concatenation of lawsuits upon success]

G= revenue earned from facial recognition system

 

(A+C+G)-(B+E+F) is >|~|< D [ more than OR near or equal OR less than ]

 

Who knows the truth, you nor i nor any in the group know anything but one of the three options is true. The big problem I have with your suggestion is the financial bomb of F. any facial recognition software will be lawsuited, and if any of those lawsuits win, the city will have potentially millions of lawsuits. It is a very risky gamble. Every year facial recognition software is contested in court

 

So, in the fake city council. 

the MTA says it loses over three hundred million dollars in fare evasion

 

@richardmurray says, streamline the service, assess the statistics and cut any bus line that has a percentage of fare evasion over 10% of its potential revenue earning

@Troy + @umbrarchist say add an expense, each in their own way,  to the system to gain the lost revenue

@ProfD says to increase the fare

@Pioneer1 says maintain the status quo

 

so the largest votes go to use funds to increase the law enforcement.. interesting the collective in aalbc, I hope more members give their suggestion

 

[Pioneer1]

If New York City is so strapped for cash, they should stop housing and feeding all of those illegal immigrants they have up there by the thousands.
Housing them up in hotels and giving them spending money.
.....but have the nerve to complain about citizens not paying subway fare.
 

[richardmurray]

@Pioneer1  haha well. problem solving is through arithmetic for me. 

7 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Most city and state services in the United States rely..to one degree or another...on federal funds for operations because the revenue they receive from taxes and other sources are simply not enough.

right... this has been true for a long time, and I do comprehend how the federal government and states got into this cycle, which I will not go into but... ok. I get your position, keep the system running as it is, since it is running. I can't say people love it or like it as some of you, but I argue the issue is, no other option. Earlier this year with all the migrants coming into nyc, i saw a husband and wife side children from a country in central america, mestizos. The husband looked... angry at many things[which i comprehend], but the wife was smiling. The reported asked, how do you feel, the husband remained silent with a scowl. but the wife was clear and optimistic. The kids will have school and healthcare. Meaning, while the husband may be upset, he is in a place away from his community, his know how, living in a hotel room and needing some sort of government aid for everything and no upswing to his future prospects more than likely, the wife has embraced a similar fate but the children will have school, school food, healthcare, they will be in a city with the largest city colelgiate system in the usa and maybe the world, in a city goverment/state government/federal government that allows for individual advancement and not just through nepotism. 

Whatever country they came from in central america has rich mestizoes, but school isn't free, and while the rich kids have schools with bpools and ballet, the poor kids still may not have school at all. or what they get is below par. The usa school may not give much but will probably be better with computers, school food, health checkups. , school programs , after school. Even if it isn't great or good but just decent  it is all free and more than what the kids will get in the central american country. The USA Wins because no other government is willing to expand services. India/china/russia/france/germany/south africa/brasil many governments have rich people [ I argue nearly all governments have rich people in them . yes some islands in the caribbean and et cetera may be absent anyone with fiscal wealth] but they don't want to expand. In china the han chinese aren't looking to embrace the ugyar. In india, the hindu and muslim kill each other daily. The Rus of russia are always fighting belitting the chechynes, the cossaks and et cetera. France has huge bastions of immigrant poverty in the banleius.  Black millionaires and billionaires in south africa live in exclusive communities away from the black masses living in deserted zones outside cities, less fit than the townships.

yes people in the usa, embrace low quality over nothing, yes. and outside the usa, it is a simpler truth, the powerful are just that and the poor don't have the willingness to go to war.  The poor going to war sounds easy but requires more than just poverty, it requires a commitment by a set of the poor to be in this thing till the end and that is what gets most countries poor.  Remember the arab spring? having one march isn't enough. Black people DOSers specifically marched/rioted/picketed/ voted for a hundred years to go from the end of the war between the states + the annihilation of black elected official representation + the beginning of jim crow to the civil rights act + the return of black elected representatives in all levels of government in the usa +the beginning of the growth of black financial aristocracy at a unheard of level to 2024 aka modernity. But many black dos leaders were killed, burned alive, . it wasn't one march.  and there was always another black person to take up the fight. That is where so many poor peoples in other countries fall short. The arab spring was a march but then did those people try to get elected? no, riot? no. picketed? no. have leaders to constantly speak on the ills and demand change ? no . so... Changing the makeup of a country tends to be a bloody thing. that is why the war between the states happened. Not everything can be settled through voting or marching, many black people, DOSers  took up arms, even though they lost from 1865 to 1965. and many countries poor don't seem  to comprehend the resistance may not be called a war at times but sometimes you have to pick up weapons and that is war, even if people don't call it that. War isn't just armies behind flags. And many prefer to avoid or evade war which ... can not always be. 

 

9 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

That being the case, I'd much rather see federal dollars go to support social services that benefit citizens like healthcare, public transportation, education, etc....instead of wars and foreign aid to racist countries like the Ukraine.

 

18 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

If New York City is so strapped for cash, they should stop housing and feeding all of those illegal immigrants they have up there by the thousands.
Housing them up in hotels and giving them spending money.
.....but have the nerve to complain about citizens not paying subway fare.
 

yeah well, complete your statement, any elected official that supports doing what you say publicly or in policy will not be in government long. 

I comprehend your position but i wish people would add, and the elected official is out of government, the former representative of harlem supported palestine and both parties in NYC excommunicadoed here. And it was done quickly and cruelly. She didn't blow anybody up. she simply supported palestine and called israel terorrist, which is the truth but as an elected official in nyc, that is a statment that gets you kicked out the government. the yellow cabs never forgave lindsey for the gypsy cabs, and the nypd never forgave lindsey for the knapp commission or the call for restraint on the grieving black community. 

I comprehend your point but please say it all. I think too many people in the usa, make it seem like the action doesn't come with a penalty and thus looking at the body of elected officials in the usa, it is clear why none of them will, they are not the kind of people to do things that risk their revenue potential later. 

[Pioneer1]

19 minutes ago, richardmurray said:

Earlier this year with all the migrants coming into nyc, i saw a husband and wife side children from a country in central america, mestizos. The husband looked... angry at many things[which i comprehend], but the wife was smiling. The reported asked, how do you feel, the husband remained silent with a scowl. but the wife was clear and optimistic. The kids will have school and healthcare. Meaning, while the husband may be upset, he is in a place away from his community, his know how, living in a hotel room and needing some sort of government aid for everything and no upswing to his future prospects more than likely,

Well my question is, if the husband was scowling and upset at what he saw....then why did he bring his ass up here?
Why didn't he stay where he was and be happy, and let his wife and kids come up here where THEY'D be happy?

I know what it was.
He saw too much Black competition, and didn't like it....lol.

Most people who come to the U.S. don't realize that we have so many Black people or that so many of the Black people are doing well.
They think most AfroAmericans are confined to ghettos and slums being harassed by the police.

Probably came up here and saw so many Black folks with money, cars, and Black men with White women giggling at them and thought to himself...

 

"These Prietos would never be allowed to make
so much money, drive such cars, and screw so
many white women back in MY country."


Talk about war is a "necessary evil".
To many of these non-Black immigrants; having to live and work around Black folks is a "necessary evil" if they want to stay in America and have something to eat.  

As much as they hate it, they don't want to go back to sleeping on dirt floors and having to share the sidewalk with goat and dogs.

 

[umbrarchist]

1 hour ago, richardmurray said:

Interesting @umbrarchist you want to add expenses to a system losing money, like Troy. 

I don't want anything.

 

YOU asked for a suggestion.

If YOU do not like My suggestion Tough SHIT!

 

I will consider being so kind as to not make any more. But maybe I will since reading you blow a gasket is so funny.

[richardmurray]

@Pioneer1  well ok:) you went another path

 

@umbrarchist I apologize for the poor use of words, You suggest adding an expense to a system losing money. like Troy. I still think it is an interesting choice. 

[umbrarchist]

20 minutes ago, richardmurray said:

@Pioneer1  well ok:) you went another path

 

@umbrarchist I apologize for the poor use of words, You suggest adding an expense to a system losing money. like Troy. I still think it is an interesting choice. 

They say how much they THINK THEY LOST not what they MADE compared to expenses. If they had a reliable method of forcing everyone to pay how many people would just not ride? That is why I think chasing repeat offenders is worthwhile. They probably have to ride and do it in predictable patterns.

[ProfD]

3 hours ago, richardmurray said:

@ProfD Do you concur that the payment for the mta comes through federal money, regardless of the source of such funds?

I believe MTA and other public transit systems are subsidized by government for the service it provides. 

 

Transit systems take folks back and forth to work and school and play. While responsible for air pollution themselves, they reduce the number of vehicles emitting carbon.

 

When the public transit system claims to lose money, it's letting government know it needs more of it.

 

3 hours ago, richardmurray said:

I say the funds is the debt that is bought per year by many countries including, japan who have the most, and china who i think are next and are used as tradeable commodities, which  I find financially dubious. to trade in unpaid debt is unwise sooner or later. 

The US gives away billions of dollars for everything from financing unwinnable wars in other countries to propping up governments to incentivizing farmers not to grow crops and a whole lot of other stuff.

 

The US military is absolutely the strongest force on the planet. They're responsible for keeping any other country from calling in markers on debt. The game is dirty. 

[Troy]

1 hour ago, richardmurray said:

You suggest adding an expense to a system losing money. like Troy.

It’s called an investment is done all the time. Your math is a little simplistic. It’s not a matter of addition and subtraction. Sometimes you make an investment @richardmurray that pays dividends down the road.

 

So you spend X today and tomorrow you gain 2X or 3X or X².

 

local municipalities like New York City have to balance their budgets. Only the federal government has a luxury of incurring multi trillion dollar deficits, but that’s because they can print money.

 

The federal government, I’m pretty sure, subsidizes the MTA not alone just free money. Frankly the New York City fare is relatively low compared to other cities given the size of the system, the and hours of operation. Perhaps the biggest downside is the lack of connections to the airport any city worth its salt has direct rail to their airports. 

MTA also has a huge pension fund to support. I’m not sure what percentage of it budget liability but I’m sure it’s substantial and probably grows every year.

 

I doubt New York City can afford to run its public transportation system without losing money at least not without cutting services elsewhere and/or raising fares. 
 

I think the subway system and buses should be free. They can get the money to fund the system, by increasing the sales tax, making corporations pay their fair share taxes. Increasing the local taxes on the wealthy, etc

 

 

[richardmurray]

On 9/2/2024 at 10:35 PM, umbrarchist said:

If they had a reliable method of forcing everyone to pay how many people would just not ride?

even question @umbrarchist I ponder what would happen. some will assume one way or another but something like that has to be happen to be truly known

 

@ProfD we have found the even space

 

@Troy

On 9/2/2024 at 11:40 PM, Troy said:

Your math is a little simplistic.

 

 

On 9/2/2024 at 11:40 PM, Troy said:

So you spend X today and tomorrow you gain 2X or 3X or X².

 

 

On 9/2/2024 at 11:40 PM, Troy said:

MTA also has a huge pension fund to support. I’m not sure what percentage of it budget liability but I’m sure it’s substantial and probably grows every year.

 

yes, I made the point about pension funds early.

 

On 9/2/2024 at 12:21 AM, richardmurray said:

Now, @Troy you say the problem is enforcement. well, that means an added expense of law enforcement, so 

Cost of the NYC bus system'' = Cost of the NYC bus system' + Law enforcement [cost of labor + retirement packages/union packages/guns/clothing/lawsuits from criminal behavior from law enforcers]

And I still wanted a simple function because to add a probability range to the functions is one of the problems. 

Yes, if you add probability range Z to the following

A= revenue earned from the bus service in a year

B= revenue lost through fare evasion in a year

C= federal money to the bus service in a year

D= cost of the bus service

Now you add two revenue depletions

E= cost of law enforcement[ facial software design and testing and implementation/updates and security to the facial recognition system<it costs money to protect electronic security systems from hackers>/ law enforcement fuel+ time of labor]

F= cost of lawsuits to the city [ defense of lawsuits in a year + cost of successful lawsuits against the city and the concatenation of lawsuits upon success]

G= revenue earned from facial recognition system

with Z= random()*maximumprojection ;  with random() being a range from 1 to 100 while maximumprojection being an arbitrary number applied into the function 

(A+C+G+Z)-(B+E+F) is now instead of >|~|< D [ more than OR near or equal OR less than the relationship to D is now unknown as the random() is always present. The only thing you can do is assess what the minimum random() needs to be such that with the maximumprojection then Z-(D+(B+E+F))>0

Yes such an equation can derive an exponential increase, your correct and it is more complicated , but it doesn't demand it and in my opinion in our mock legislative arena, i will vote against anything that deals with potentials financially. In my mind private business is free to take fiscal risk but governments , in my view, are foolish to be operated that way so i vote against. 

But what is interesting is how between the commentors in the post I lost. My way is voted down by all others so  I think that is telling to at least a section of black folk in the usa's thinking.  

 

[ProfD]

 

9 hours ago, richardmurray said:

And I still wanted a simple function because to add a probability range to the functions is one of the problems. 

As shown, there are several variables based on viewpoints within the problem that a simple function may not suffice. 

 

9 hours ago, richardmurray said:

But what is interesting is how between the commentors in the post I lost. My way is voted down by all others so  I think that is telling to at least a section of black folk in the usa's 

You didn't lose anyone nor were you voted down.

 

There's  no lack of intelligence here but very few regular posters. Extremely small sample size for the exercise.

[richardmurray]

19 hours ago, ProfD said:

As shown, there are several variables based on viewpoints within the problem that a simple function may not suffice. 

@ProfD yes, but i will now say what I quoted you on with different words that i think are clearer.

Based on the approaches to the problem, the function is unsuitable. 

yeah, your correct. the function fits my approach to the law. I don't know if you saw what i replied to  @Troy  but i added a probabilistic element that satisfies his view. But it doesn't satisfy mine. The second any law says maybe, that maybe includes not only the best case but the worst case and , from my viewpoint that is a terrible law. 

 

19 hours ago, ProfD said:

You didn't lose anyone nor were you voted down.

I don't recall writing i lost anyone. My vote was voted down as it wasn't in the majority , that isn't a bad thing, Profd... that is how legislative bodies work, even mock ones. The majority of commentors approach this issue different ways, that isn't bad profd, I am not complaining by stating others have different opinions. 

Yes, the votes are few, but that doesn't matter. I didn't say the black community voted no:) I said the folk in here did. 

I have a question to you, why did you say the following <You didn't lose anyone nor were you voted down.>  ? I didn't suggest a pesconal stake or attack and i didn't suggest anyone was dumb or unintelligent. I onyl suggested different of opinion which is totally acceptable , eve in a mock legislative situation. 

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, richardmurray said:

I don't recall writing i lost anyone. My vote was voted down as it wasn't in the majority....

 

I have a question to you, why did you say the following <You didn't lose anyone nor were you voted down.>  ?

Gotcha.  You meant lost as the opposite of won.  

1 hour ago, richardmurray said:

I didn't suggest a [personal] stake or attack and i didn't suggest anyone was dumb or unintelligent. I [only] suggested different of opinion which is totally acceptable...

Right.  Nor was I implying that you felt or thought such either.  Mainly pointing out that group is small in number.

[Pioneer1]

On 9/2/2024 at 10:09 PM, richardmurray said:

@Pioneer1  well ok:) you went another path

True, however seems to me if the city of New York was TRULY concerned with saving money they would start with their most obvious and unnecessary expense...ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.
...not picking on poor people for not paying their bus fare.

NYC as well as the state has recently spent MILLIONS if not BILLIONS of dollars feeding, housing, and giving various other benefits to illegal immigrants.
But now they want to go after their own tax paying citizens over services that should actually be FREE.

Talk about swallowing a camel whole, but then turning around and gagging on a little gnat.

[richardmurray]

@Pioneer1 your stance has two great flaws. One , the legacy of the past concerning immigration and New York city or any of new york city's past forms.  Two, the power of the pro immigration issue in modern nyc. 

 

It can be argued, NYC, from the days when it was only lived in by the lenape and called manahatta and surrounding lands  had incorrectly allowed illegal immigrants, starting with white europeans from holland. But one thing is for sure, NYC has been an ever increasing  haven for illegal immigration since the lenape to today. What you call an obvious and unnecessary expense made nyc what it is today. Criminals from europe, white people who wanted to reinvent themselves, waves and waves of european immigrants, usually using false names or various incorrect identifiers which is illegal have consistently flooded into  NYC and in the 1900s the waves began to be not white european but ever coming. So... NYC or its former new amsterdam or its former lenape lands have always been weighed down by the needs of illegal immigrants, immigrants who are illegal by some measure. 

 

In modernity you will never become mayor of nyc  supporting a stance like that. Yes, you said illegal immigrants but many people in nyc came illegally, and will be energized against anyone trying to get elected on a platform like that for fear of a retroactive law which is a legal tradition in nyc. From the enslaved, to prisoners, to those in jail for marijuana, nyc government likes to make you pay for the past even if today is different. You can't become mayor and the mayor has the largest power over the budget. but many city council seats are unobtainable if you try to get said districts with such a platform.

 

So , while I comprehend your position.It has financial merit, no question it has financial merit.  I myself said, eric adams should had blockaded the city when texas and others starting bussing the people into the city. But adams knew, if he did that,he will not need to worry about a next term. So this goes back to quality of elected oficials. 

[Troy]

It seems the MTA agrees with my idea and forcing Fair paying. I wrote the subway a few times this past weekend, and there were posters saying they were now going to go after people who beat fares I did ride a bus as well and I was at least half the people did not pay…

 

Mayor Adams seems to have bigger problems than illegal immigrants and fair beaters.

[ProfD]

Immigration is a political football here in the US. 

 

Bottom line...legal and illegal Immigration is a matter of which people white folks are willing to accept into the US.   

 

For example, as asylum seekers, Ukrainians and Afghans have a speed pass through the immigration process.

 

Immigration lottery winners come from countries around the globe. There's other circumstances that allow foreign people to reside in the US.

 

Politicians operating within the system of racism white supremacy know exactly what they're supposed to do in order to maintain the system.  

 

From a purely financial perspective, the US wastes billions of dollars on all types of sh8t i.e. unwinnable wars.   State and local governments are guilty of waste too.

 

Until the MTA fails to operate or completely breaks down, I consider that $300 million loss a financial illusion.

[richardmurray]

17 hours ago, Troy said:

It seems the MTA agrees with my idea and forcing Fair paying. I wrote the subway a few times this past weekend, and there were posters saying they were now going to go after people who beat fares I did ride a bus as well and I was at least half the people did not pay…

 

Mayor Adams seems to have bigger problems than illegal immigrants and fair beaters.

Not jus thte MTA @Troy but most of the commentors in this post, so , there you have it. I think it shows a majority of blacks in the usa have a similar thinking to how government agents or government agencies  operate or plan in the usa. 

well... being mayor of NYC is the problem. One of the things i try to remind people is some positions in any government come with automatic problems that you inherent and tend to only add problems during an elected officials time. USA president/governor of NY, california, texas/mayor of NYC, LA,Chicago 

said positions in the usa government are by default the problem. These positions have centuries of dysfunctional inefficient highly financially profitable for a few government that people in the modern are elected and told to act like their election has brought a day one. Governments don't work that way, just cause the usa like terms and term limits motif doesn't mean government in the usa is rebooted every election. So the problem mayor adams has is nyc itself. 

A ten million plus  collection of strangers who tend to stay quiet , herding along each other, while the bureaucracy of nyc maintains dysfunctions year after year with the individuals who overcome the inefficiency deemed an example of the cities overall quality.  And it is the same in Loa angeles, chicago, it is the same with new york state, california. centuries of dysfunctional or inefficient government activity that didn't lead to violent revolt but should had. When I think of the mayors long before i was born , my relatives words suggest from their own experience no mayor of nyc from the 1900s to modernity has been good really. but the city has hundreds of years of inherited inefficiency or dysfunction which can't be healed or undone or fixed or erased in four years

@ProfD i know it is a small subset of people but I think it is telling

and good point, it is the one @Pioneer1 made, which I comprehend. Regardless of the quality in any government, if it can maintain its day to day year to year, then keep going, until of course, the explosion. Which i don't mind the explosion, i mind what i find many say under various governments in history or humanity when an explosition occurs... and that is... how this happen

How this happen , angers me more than anything when people assess governments, any governments. 

I think of blacks in south africa... I think of chinese in hong kong

Black people of south africa ask, how this happen. and it sickens me. 

you know how, mandela fucked the black people, he let himself be used to create a fallacy of functional government, of black desire for a parliamentary style of government, mandela didn't allow any quality assessment of all the peoples including whites in south africa in the design of things, he legacied apartheid south africa under a parliamentary south africa. And added more chaos which has hurt all communities including the white. The only who have gained are financially wealthy whites and the black chiefs clans.  People talk about white power too much, black people lacking imagination or lacking a potent team. why did't mandela embrace winnie mandela, that was the white man's doing, come on, mandela was simply weak and created a scenario that could only get worse. Imagination has value. Blacks, colored, Whites , Indians in South Africa thought the positive energy from mandela's time would last forever absent quality government, that is silly. 

Chinese in jhogn kong ask , how this happen, and it sickens me.

You know how, when nixon made the deal with deng, hong kong was n a favored position as the gateway in and out of china and the eurasian financial elite of hong kong, made tons of money, became crazy rich and never realized that china, the only non white european country with globally recognized militarsitic power, was never going to allow itself to be a satrap for its eventual district hong kong and china over time, didn't need hong kong to ship good or port goods, didn't need hong kong for its film industry , didn't need hong kong for its financial services, so over time, hong kong became a useless city state, that said wealthy in hong kong, the eurasian financial elite, saw and did nothing about. Macau is a fww miles from hong kong, you can walk to macau from hong kong, macau is having the time of its life, but macau embraced the reality that china will only respect them if they serve a function. China isn't a fan of gambling all over, china's modern history with drugs and gambling means many in the chinese government don't trust such things all over the place, so china doesn't mind macau as the gambling center of the world and at least asia. and macau gets support and is beloved. But hong kongers knew all this as it was happening. Hong kongers thought hype could maintain their status quo with the mainland  which was and is silly. 

Same to the usa, If the usa military ever losses its dominance, even in a region, or some country calls in its debt leading into a cascade of chaos, people will ask in the usa, how this happen. you know how though. 

So to nyc, I have been fortunate to speak to many, black/indigenous/white/female/male who have all said wise things and were or are far older than me and no one listened, the government kept playing the games so ok, but, How this happen ahhhh