@ProfD 

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

We've had freedom of choice and agency over our bodies for a couple centuries.

that isn't true in the usa. 1980 was when slavery ended in the usa. it isn't about the laws it is about the environment. The great tragedy of tulsa in my view is that black people living today will say the black people during tulsa's time were free, but that is freedom? yeah start business, go to college, and at any moment the white populace could wipe you out and every single municipal level from the federal government to tulsa city council would be in on the coverup. that's freedom? we weren't free in our choices. MLK said it best himself. 

https://aalbc.com/tc/events/event/356-mlk-jr-day-good-news-calendar/

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

Even animals know how to prevent their offspring from a life of of pain and/or suffering. 

 

A mother will euthanize those incapable of surviving on their own. A father will do the same thing.

what non humans are you referring to? nonhumans trust nature to do that. they don't do that. 

 

54 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Rhetorically, I wonder what happened to any additional offspring and the parents.

I know exactly what happened, in one of my posts posted or one I have set up but haven't had time to share, the chinese government allowed the sale of the extra children illegally, meaning illegal in chinese law like when the usa federal government allows illegal immigration,  through traffickers who made a fortunes selling chinese kids to white people all over the world, who were not orphans. 

The chinese government shut the majority of traffikers down, using some of the biggest offenders as scapegoats, ala madoff in the usa similarly PLUS opening up the child allowance.  To me the traffikers made the mistake of thinking this would last forever. that is a foolish hustle to think will last forever. I know that in eastern europe the traffiking of blondes is big to all the rich asians who are looking for.. various things, but they don't go too far, or the governments will step in. The governments already know all the crimes but they all allow certain levels of all crimes under a cap or within some limit. Some chinese traffikers got too greedy, were too confident governments wouldn't step in. 

 

@Chevdove 

1 hour ago, Chevdove said:

You are not the only Black American that thinks in this way, so collectively, yes this kind of belief does hurt us, imo.

Well the issue is centrism. Many, not most, black people want to be centrists. It is the old adage, I married a white woman, went to harvard, live in the hamptons, but I am blacker than black still. Many Black people in the usa, and definitely descended of enslaved fear the internal shame, not external,  of being a white agent.  

The slave revolts prove, most black people have a distrust of black people who have a positive or more positive relationship with whites or the usa  but how else can a black person succeed in the usa absent a positive relationship with the usa or whites:) 

So, it becomes an impossible task. But one many black people venture to, and thus modernity. 

As I have said in this forum many times, most black people want black betterment but the problem is the intricacies of how said black betterment is defined. As frederick Douglas said, 

https://aalbc.com/tc/events/event/418-frederick-douglass-our-composite-nation/

Profd + Pioneer say today. It isn't a new thing. The problem is, nonblack peoples actions have always made it very challenging for a majority of blacks to trust nonblacks or the usa. And absent trust to non blacks or the usa, a black person tryin the middle will never be trusted by most blacks. 

This is why I try to emphasize black people in tribes do more in those tribes. Cause most in any tribe are similar thinking so the trust is there. If a black atheist goes to a black church it will be very hard to regale on anything. 

 

12 minutes ago, richardmurray said:

@ProfD 

that isn't true in the usa. 1980 was when slavery ended in the usa. it isn't about the laws it is about the environment.

As it relates to procreation, it has been over 200 years since Black folks were forced to breed to children.

 

12 minutes ago, richardmurray said:

what non humans are you referring to? nonhumans trust nature to do that. they don't do that. 

Among certain animals, after giving birth, the mother will look over her offspring. If she deems that it is incapable of survival, she will euthanize it.

 

12 minutes ago, richardmurray said:

If a black atheist goes to a black church it will be very hard to regale on anything. 

Right. If/when I'm in a church or religious setting for whatever reason, I don't offer anything. Now, if they ask what I think...it's on and popping.🤣😎

On 11/23/2025 at 1:01 PM, ProfD said:

Black folks should not make decisions that lead to continued oppression.

 

To absolve an adult of personal responsibility reduces them to a child-like state. They will remain oppressed. 

 

people do not oppress themselves. That is not the definition of oppression. 

No one would remained oppressed under the oppressor if they could figure out how to get free and if they had help.

 

On 11/23/2025 at 1:01 PM, ProfD said:

Sometimes, things have to be torn down in order to be rebuilt.

 

When new recruits enter the military, the 1st thing they do is break them down.

 

If blaming people for being irresponsible will ultimately make them better, I think it's great.

 

I'll repeat, our master teacher, Dr. Francis Cress-Welsing was on to something when she suggested Black folks should not procreate until they are at least 30 years old.

 

Dr. Cress-Welsing had a whole rationale behind it. Her words have been recorded for those reading this and want to hear it for themselves. 

 

Black people have been torn down and as a whole, for the most part, we are not rebuilding very well. However, I do agree in that due to the past, and due to so much Black on black hatred, yes, we needed to be torn down. 

I disagree with the doctor because at the age of 30, the percentage of mental ill births is high. 

She is wrong about that. 

On 11/23/2025 at 1:01 PM, ProfD said:

Black parents should be the 1st to teach their offspring parents personal  responsibility.

 

The majority of Black parents are in need of governmental intervention themselves due to this American government and their exploitation of Black children.

 

 

On 11/23/2025 at 1:01 PM, ProfD said:

Religion is an opiate used for mind control. Interestingly, it addresses how people should go about procreation. Otherwise, religion won't solve our problems either.😎

 

Well perhaps for many religions, however, the good thing about the Religion of Jesus Christ and the prophecy of his Second Coming, only his true believers will be allowed to worship him and his father in the new world. And I live for that day. 

 

 

 

 

58 minutes ago, Chevdove said:

No one would remained oppressed under the oppressor if they could figure out how to get free

Simple yet logical and powerful statement that took me years to learn and then many more years to accept.

I didn't want to accept it, but I HAD to.

@ProfD

On 11/23/2025 at 1:26 PM, ProfD said:

As it relates to procreation, it has been over 200 years since Black folks were forced to breed to children.

but black people were enslaved to whites outside the incarceration system in the 1970s, they were forced to breed... ok, you can argue it was illegal by whites at that time but it was happening

 

On 11/23/2025 at 1:26 PM, ProfD said:

Among certain animals, after giving birth, the mother will look over her offspring. If she deems that it is incapable of survival, she will euthanize it.

which ones, i want to know, please educate, cause i don't recall any that do that. 

On 11/23/2025 at 1:26 PM, ProfD said:

Right. If/when I'm in a church or religious setting for whatever reason, I don't offer anything. Now, if they ask what I think...it's on and popping.🤣😎

hahaha part of  me will like to see that scenario, from a distance:)

 

@Pioneer1

I love that you quoted an incomplete statement:) convenient

4 hours ago, richardmurray said:

 

@Pioneer1

I love that you quoted an incomplete statement:) convenient

 

Obviously you love it, because it seems to be an object of your affection and attention.

However to be precise.....
It wasn't the statement itself that was incomplete, I just didn't quote it in it's entirety.
I quoted the part I wanted to comment on....not being able to figure out HOW to break free from the oppressor.

The second part of her statement....needing or wanting help to get us out of our oppression....most of us acknowledge and accept.
Most of our people would GLADLY welcome somebody else to come in and do for them what we SHOULD be doing for ourselves, which is one of the reasons why so many call on Jesus.

However the FIRST part.....not being able to figure out HOW to overpower your oppressor and break free from them.....is one very few of our people would ever admit to and have a very hard time accepting.


 

3 hours ago, richardmurray said:

but black people were enslaved to whites outside the incarceration system in the 1970s, they were forced to breed... 

 

Enlighten on when and where were Black folks forced to breed children in the 1970s.😎

@ProfD Alice was in the 1960s. By her own admittance she wasn't alone. The white man who owned her wasn't the only white person acting just like he was. She admitted children and adults were part of the group of enslaved blacks. 

I don't have photographs or listings to prove. I don't have and will more than likely never have ledger-man what you need to prove the obvious truth. I wish I did have photographs. I don't have the money to perform investigative reporting for all the incidents of slavery in the usa after the civil rights act of 1963, for whichever ones records haven't been completely destroyed by now. Hell, everyone in New York city knows some white jewish women are enslaved to their husbands in 2025. 

When that latino guy could have three women in a basement and a child that was born from one of his rapes , be discovered circa 2010 or something by the merest chance, not law enforcement work. I know, absent any proof,  post Alice in the 1970s other black people were enslaved. I trust the genocide of the usa. I trust the enslavement of the usa. I trust the legal criminality of the usa. I trust the paper trail protecting of crimes of the usa. I trust the true nature of the usa. 

So to your question, I can provide nothing. Your 100% correct. And as said elsewhere our experiences give us different perspectives. 

https://aalbc.com/tc/events/event/427-alice-2022-starring-keke-palmer-common/

 

 

36 minutes ago, richardmurray said:

 

I know, absent any proof,  post Alice in the 1970s other black people were enslaved. I trust the genocide of the usa. I trust the enslavement of the usa. I trust the legal criminality of the usa. I trust the paper trail protecting of crimes of the usa. I trust the true nature of the usa. 

So to your question, I can provide nothing. Your 100% correct. And as said elsewhere our experiences give us different perspectives. 

OK. I see where you're going with that despite the lack of proof.

 

It is plausible that a handful of white folks could have enslaved a few Black folks in the 20th century.

 

It would be interesting to know 1) how they got away with it and 2) why didn't Black men do anything about it.

 

If such a thing was happening, Black men should have handled that situation by any means necessary.😎

@ProfD

24 minutes ago, ProfD said:

1) how they got away with it

You know part of how already. The full how requires details , in this case more than likely very lost, even though cases like this have some pattern. Alice's case at the least explains what you already know in part.

• USA is a very large country geographically, a person with land in a remote place that does enough to sate the taxation or real estate bureaucracy will not be bothered by other municipal agencies unless something like a highway or big project involves said land. Again, Castro proves how very possible this is in 1970s. He kidnapped white women in 2003 to 2004 and kept them till 2014. that is ten years. And these are women who are not born enslaved. And the only reason he got caught was he made a mistake of leaving his door open and it wasn't a test but he forgot and then one went to neighbors with her daughter she had in captivity. Which means that white girl was born enslaved like Alice. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_Castro_kidnappings  In the 1970s NYC had a famous couple of rich white guys who were recluse. Their financial situation was settled so they just lived in a mansion. No one bothered them. The government knew through taxes or et cetera they were there but if they had a child in that house, who would know? Unless someone saw them take a child in and report it , who would know in the 1970s? Today in 2025 I argue it is significantly harder to live unseen so to speak but in 1970s. And I will add, if a white man had a black family and killed them 1975, who would know? He could bury the bodies, countryside will swallow them. He could get old and die and no one will know. If the blacks were born enslaved like Alice, no missing persons. Law enforcement will not suspect or bother a white man in the countryside, unless said white man abducts someone or government needs the land.  
• Enslaved black people , born enslaved, can't read or write, Alice couldn't. All the other black people around her were similar. These weren't black people who were working in a mill or going home from working at a hospital and grabbed and became this, these black people were always enslaved. That is born enslaved which means some poor black woman had a baby enslaved circa 1940s while black people are fighting for the USA during the commonly called world war 2. Alice had to have a mother. If a house is remote enough, a car/boat/train may be heard but not seen. 1970s air travel was far from what it is today. What would enslaved people think an airplane is? If their white master calls it the devil or an angel, how could they prove otherwise, since they are enslaved. 
• The power of people in the usa naysaying or covering negativities concerning the usa aside no proof that can dispel their position. In my life, many Blacks + nonblacks in the usa have one thing in common. They are excusers for the usa and can do it cause so many of their positions have no proof at least easily available. In the vietnam war documentary, soldiers at vietnam admitted they saw fingers of people worn as necklaces, were fired upon by usa air force. Did many missions in cambodia which was supposed to not happen. Saw tons of very negative acts committed to unarmed people. But, no photos, no transcripts. A soldier in that same documentary said he saw no criminal behavior whatsoever from us soldiers. Of course, no one has proof that can dispute him so... To this day in NYC, some people black + nonblack still say Black people burned the bronx, which is a 100% lie. I happen to know for sure that people in the street knew it was whites, I argue white jews since they owned the buildings and reaped the money from insurance. Today most accept it was whites but no proof exist. And many black people in NYC in the 1970s literally believed black people burned their own buildings they lived in, all based on news reporting which itself was based on rigged phone calls or just general negative bias or some agenda. But no proof to anything so... I remember when I told people black towns in the 2000s had no running water. And many didn't believe cause it was just me talking. Showed articles then belief. But to be blunt, the articles didn't have photographs. I bet many people think twenty five years later, no black town like that exist in the usa. they need proof again. And that maintains the cycle of naysaying usa's negativities.

You know how. Everybody black in the usa in their minds, where the truth may be covered but never dead or nonexistent,  know how. It isn't a pretty tale.  Obama was born 1961 which means the real life Black woman Alice is based on was enslaved when Obama future president of the USA was born. Alice was enslaved during the time of the march on washington. MLK jr was pleading for all in the USA to judge by content of character not color of skin while a white man was daily raping a black woman whom was born enslaved. 

 

15 hours ago, richardmurray said:

• USA is a very large country geographically, a person with land in a remote place that does enough to sate the taxation or real estate bureaucracy will not be bothered by other municipal agencies unless something like a highway or big project involves said land. 

@richardmurray, from the way you wrote your post above, you're right. 

 

To this day, people are still being kidnapped, enslaved, trafficked, etc. Not just Black people. 

 

I sill contend that it is not on the scale of slavery and breeding pre-1865.  Not even close.😎

@ProfD

On 11/25/2025 at 5:26 PM, ProfD said:

I sill contend that it is not on the scale of slavery and breeding pre-1865.  Not even close.😎

This segment of our dialog didn't begin with a dispute over comparison of scales. You said.

On 11/24/2025 at 8:03 PM, ProfD said:

Enlighten on when and where were Black folks forced to breed children in the 1970s.😎

Now, I admittedly can not provide proof.  So I couldn't enlighten you in a way that will satisfy a court of law or anyone looking for proof. That is the truth and it matters. Everybody black knows about Tulsa yet who can name a name of one white person, even though a whole town of white people annihilated a black town. 

But I , if for nothing else but my perspective of the usa + extrapolating the life of Alice, who was freed in the 1960s, choose to accept the slavery era in the usa is from 1492 to 1980, broken up into two phases, complete and jim crow delineated at 1865. And thus, black people were forced to breed in the 1970s. 

 

 

1 hour ago, richardmurray said:

But I , if for nothing else but my perspective of the usa + extrapolating the life of Alice, who was freed in the 1960s, choose to accept the slavery era in the usa is from 1492 to 1980, broken up into two phases, complete and jim crow delineated at 1865. And thus, black people were forced to breed in the 1970s. 

Got it. A handful of mostly anonymous Black folks were kidnapped by white folks and enslaved and forced to breed since the 1970s. 

 

Of course, many folks in unhealthy situations; bad relationships and marriages can make a claim that they are enslaved and forced to breed too.🤣😎