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The Cult of R. Kelly

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  1. 1. The Cult of R. Kelly?

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Pioneer, I'm no more zealous than you are.

 

Look, I know science has been perverted to do all kinds of ill things two black folks justify slavery, before scientific experiments on us, and more. But believe in in the evidence presented about a single race of humans or man's contribution to climate change is completely different.

 

On 5/18/2018 at 11:19 PM, Pioneer1 said:

While a 20 year old man may see women and categorize them as either women he WANTS to have sex with or women he DOES NOT want to have sex with....e.i. "sex objects"....and treat them accordingly.

 

Okay, maybe I misunderstood what you wrote here, are you saying that this only applies to 20 year olds?

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On 5/25/2018 at 9:32 AM, Delano said:

How can you discuss something much less think about something that is non experiential. 

Like being pregnant or another person or a cat. 

Even with imagination it's a function of our life. 

 

11 hours ago, Troy said:

 

You and @Delano put a lot more weight on your personal experiences and gut feelings. 

How does your response make any sense. @Troy

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I dunno @Delano your question referencing pregnancy and cats was rather obtuse to me as well.  Maybe we just can "see" each other on this issue.

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I believe objectivity is impossible because we can never escape our experience. That's a purely theoretical statement. Why mention that my approach is emotional?

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Yeah @Delano, you are probably right in that it is probably impossible to be perfectly objective.

 

I did not say that your approach was emotional (though it may be).  I wrote that you and Pioneer form opinions based "experiences and gut."  Pioneer more so with experiences and your with gut (meaning intuition).

 

I'm different in that I see the world through information.  Here is a simple example:  A few days ago I was talking into someone who was lamenting the fact that Grand Central Books, the #2 selling publisher on AALBC, did not have a single book by a Black author in their fall catalog (don;t quote me on the details).  My first reaction was to ask how many titles are they publishing? She replied, "That is a Troy Johnson question."  We know each other well enough to know exactly what that means.

 

It is like when Google says that have a Black diversity network and a Black Enterprise magazine celebrates the this, while I view it as window dressing that covers up the fact that the company's history of hiring Black people is abysmal and Google has helped to destroy Black web based businesses.

 

It is just the way I view the world, and I know it is different than most...  Now if I don't have time to analyze something I go with my gut and then my experience, though my gut reaction is based upon experiences (and probably genetics). 

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I would say it is the reverse. I  will think why am I having an emotional reaction to a statement. I think about my thinking. My arguments are generally about questioning a person's motivation. There's no objectivity because a person is shaped by their life and their environment. You can mitigate that by examining self rigorously. The unexamined life is lacking objectivity. 

I can have an emotional reaction that's being human: exasperation frustration or agreement. Those are a function of how the conversant feels based on how the discussion is going. 

 

Cynique is probably one of the most critical thinkers in the forum. She also from time to time has commented on psychological and emotional make up of the men. More so than the women if it all.

She has also stopped posting because it is futile and nothing changes in the mind or the world. 

Everyone has a style Pioneer is the least egotistical. K2 is the most. Pioneer will make a statement and ask others about their experiences and to prove him wrong. 

I don't agree always with his conclusions because I thi nk more abstractly than emotionally. 

 

@Troy will concede the point but your position is you are right because you're an engineer and your read and think. However you will argue points with out reading what has been posted. You don't have the time nor inclination to read everything. Someone called me a science fan boy because I hold both Richard Feynman and Isaac Newton in high regard. I also hold David Foster Wallace in high regard. And Angela Davis Miles Davis and Prince. The quality of their "thought " is of an entirely different order than everyone else in their field. However Miles Davis, Prince, David Foster Wallace and early Newton , weren't balanced people. I don't know enough about Angela Davis to comment. 

 

K2 is more like a 50's dad/Reverend Ike kind of guy. He has strong opinions but will read and summarize what is posted. He also seems more willing or capable of changing his position.  And then fervently believing his new viewpoint. 

 

I don't belive in facts or objectivity. I have been working as a psychic for over 20 years I have talked with literally thousands of women and probably hundreds of men and probably about 50 - 100 couples. What I have noticed is people's ideas shape their world and the world shapes their ideas. That's not really news. What is interesting is to ask those people questions or make comments about their reactions to events and situations. That I logically don't or shouldn't know. What then happens is the person can hear me when I suggest a difference of approach or talk about their motivation. That doesn't generally happen in discussions. It has happened on occasion   because of statements made by Pioneer Mel and Cynique. The difference though is Pioneer self assessed and accurately. I can't recall anyone else doing so with such honesty and humility.

 

That puts Pioneer in his own category. Which is why he has a special place as far as I am concerned . Also he brings humor to the proceedings. And it is directed at others and himself.

 

 

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If you can be objective you could put yourself in anyone situation. You wouldn't need to have their experience you could look at their life and understand them.  Troy you were arguing to a woman that Feminism is of lesser importance than the Black struggle. I am making a subtle point here.  It's not about whether it is in fact needed but that you don't think it's needed but it's irrelevant to you as a man. In that instance your subjectivity has blinded you and deafened you. 

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There is a lot to unpack there Del, but if I post a reaction to something on this forum -- I absolutely read what was written.  

 

I'm not sure you explanation of Cynique has not posting lately is completely accurate.  She can better speak for herself, but she is in her 80's and has posted here longer than anyone else (almost as long as myself)...

 

So you think Pioneer is the only one being honest, or rather more honest than most?  That is interesting because I don't generally tell lies here.  In fact I think I'm too transparent sometimes.  

 

I don't think Kalexander's opinions are any stronger than anyone else's -- certainly no stronger than yours or mine. I think you see his opinions as being strong (or egotistical) because, for some reason I don't understand, he rubs you the wrong way.

 

Del I was not arguing as you stated, "that Feminism is of lesser importance than the Black struggle" I would however argue that is probably the case for a Black woman. There is a difference.  The choice between racism and sexism is like deciding whether it is more important to fight for air or water.  Obviously you need air more urgently, but both are very important.  This is analogous to my view for Black women joining white women to in the fight for their rights. Sandra Bland was not killed because she was a woman.  

 

As far as Feynman and Newton it is easy to hold brilliant and charismatic (in Feynman's case) people in high regard. It is the folks you disagree with that you have to work on.

 

I'll check out the Foster video before crashing tonight.

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Gentlemen, the argument between empirical experience, science, and external realities (objectivity) all stem from an internal natural need to make sense of our worldviews which we proclaim in the form of opinions. Opinions are like buttholes, lol, because everyone has one - only size and functionality really matter; or weight and accuratenessDarwinism's validity, if any, is based entirely on creationism's argument regardless of how scientifically reasoned; just as the doctrine of ideas/theories that God immediately creates life out of nothing is rejected for theory, the need for something more natural and tangible.

 

As for me, I'm still learning to resist the temptation to be right all the time, in the face of obvious wrongs. And i'm getting there little by little. You know! It's useless explaining to someone who knows everything; changing the minds of people with unmovable convictions, a fool and his money, etc.  Now, if that sounds like "why develop medicine when everyone's going to eventually die; or why elect anyone for president if nothing will ever change than it comes back to each of us, what's in it for me/us?

 

That character, or aggregate quality that distinguishes one person or thing from another; sole or personal nature. A target on the back of my people is a target on my back, a victory for my people is a victory for me. Me, me, me. Everybody's about her/his self; it's nature, morally not wrong but is the nuke that'll destroy us all. In time.  

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23 hours ago, Delano said:

 The difference though is Pioneer self assessed and accurately. I can't recall anyone else doing so with such honesty and humility.

I said with an honesty and humility. I  feel sometimes you think I am splitting hairs or don't see the relevance of the distinctions I make. Or I feel that you conflate  what I am saying. @Troy

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Honor, or lack thereof, of honesty, usually hidden within plain-sight is open to revelation of one's character. People need to appear, outwardly, virtuous or otherwise demonstrate humility by, say, looking you in the eye when telling you a lie. It's a myth to believe they're being honest when they look you in the eye. Because they need to see if you believe they lies.

 

People believe what they hear and/or see only when it's convenient, is the reason we have Ben Carsons, Bill Cosby's, and Barack Obama's of the world. There's no limit to what people will believe or who they'll follow out of convenience. 

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@Delano Come on man, describing @Pioneer1 as humble is a bit much; don;t you think? I doubt he, himself, would use that word to describe his personality particularly as it has been presented on this discussion forum.  Honest, sure, but no more honest than anyone else. Honest and humble -- LOL!  Gimme a break!

 

I'm not splitting hair here, Pioneer will go toe to to with anyone here.  He will assert his opinion even when it is unpopular or flies against the entire scientific community.  He can take a joke as well as dish one out. He is assertive and frequently initiates conversation on controversial topics -- indeed he enjoys this. His opinions and steadfast defense of them is a driving force behind this forum and his absence would be missed. 

 

No Del, these are not the makings of a humble person 🙂  

 

 

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Pioneer stated that his approach to discussion and his short comings. He did that with honesty and humility. 

So this misunderstanding makes my point about you conflating my statements. Pioneer is not humble on presentation however he is humble and honest in describing how he approaches the discussion. Your description of how you think is honest but is lacking in humility. Which makes his statement about his scholastic deficiencies more striking. 

K2 is  counterpoint in that he thought I wasn't educated and proceeded to lecture me about the importance of education. I am trying to recall a conversation even briefly where my intellectual abilities were questioned. Some of my ideas or conclusions could be unfathomable but to say I lack reasoning and reckoning leaves me speechless. So I refrain from speaking with  him. 

If this still  isn't clear so it goes. 

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On 5/28/2018 at 5:37 PM, Delano said:

Everyone has a style Pioneer is the least egotistical.

Pioneer self assessed and accurately. I can't recall anyone else doing so with such honesty and humility.

 

That puts Pioneer in his own category. Which is why he has a special place as far as I am concerned . Also he brings humor to the proceedings. And it is directed at others and himself.

 

 

@Del Egads, man, have you lost your mind?  Those statements were enough to elicit a comment from me.   You'll probably change your opinion about me after you read this response but - so be it.  "The sun will come up tomorrow."  Pioneer is one of the reasons i stopped posting because i found his stance on most things so insufferable, i needed to remove myself from an atmosphere of "familiarity breeding contempt", a situation reminding me that "if you can't say anything good, it's best to not say anything at all". My time here was up because my having difficulty in finding anything good to say about anything, made me a liability.  Taking a break was not a hard decision.  i had stayed too long at the party.  And Troy and Mel do a very good job of keeping things real.  Who needs my contrarian input?  🤐

 

it should come as no surprise then that i totally disagree with everything your said about Pioneer.  i consider him the most egotistical, person on this board.  Every conclusion he comes to has its origin in the ego that fuels how he perceives the world.  All he needs is one experience to carve his opinion into the stone of an obstinacy that fosters whatever he decides about things in general and black people in particular, to be adamantly true because he considers himself to the ultimate authority.  Facts, figures, studies be damned in his cherry-pickin' the tree of  information. Forget Mel's and Troy's and Kalexander's rebuttals that refute his BS.  When he's not preaching his gospel,  he states the obvious because he is not an original thinker and yes, from time to time, he assumes a phony air of humbleness, often prefacing his remarks with the phrase "I may not be the smartest person in the world, but - ", an introduction that is subsequently proven accurate as he lays out his lengthy "dissertations" that are saturated with shallow subjectivity.   "Self-assessed himself" ? Puleeze.  He is incapable of regarding himself as anything other than right about the subjects he zeroes in on. Kalexander is at least, able to discern and admit his shortcomings."Funny"? He's  ridiculous. Because Pioneer couldn't wrap his brain around "Childish Gambino" 's spoof, he decided something was wrong with Gambino instead of considering that he, himself,  is a one-dimensional clod who can't see past his nose. His attitude about black women, is full of inaccuracies and notions that date back to 50 years ago, and are example of how out of touch he is in this era, dictating to us who our role models should be and what our motivations are,  and who is and who isn't "black", as if a mentally-promiscuous, polygamy advocate like himself, the anti-thesis of what a role model for black  males should be, has any room to criticize sistas. 

 

As i've previously stated, Pioneer is an example of a certain type i've come across down through the years, - individuals who simply make my gut recoil.  That's an inexplicable fact of my life; not an opinion.  I'm well aware that my observations on this subject don't really matter, and i would've refrained from expressing them if you hadn't brought my name up in a paragraph where you felt a need to sing an off-key version of Pioneer's praises. And speaking of opinions, Del, i haven't changed mine in regard to your using Pioneer as a vehicle to deride Troy.  (Just for the record, however, you don't make my gut recoil! You just make my eyebrow rise. 🤨😉)

 

Unfortunately,  I think your admission that  you don't believe in "facts" or "objectivity" pretty much undermines everything you have said. it would seem you are just blowin smoke.  And this includes your mention of having encounters with a broad cross section of people  What creeps between the lines is that beneath all the layers of your facade of being cool and detached, is a sensitive, easily offended person, - a someone who finds it necessary to say that he is impervious and psychic - because it is not obvious that this is the case. 

 

 And i'm sorry that this further unsolicited criticism will seal my doom with you when i express my disagreement with your prediction  that Donald Trump will be removed from office.  IMO, no amount of credible evidence  will be enough for him to be ousted. He is becoming entrenched, gradually gaining converts because the average white American can identify with his bad character and disregard for authority and the truth. Plus,  the nation is not prepared for the upheaval his being forced out of office will precipitate.   But i will, indeed, be glad to be wrong on this subject!  And it won't be the first time i've been wrong, something i'm sure you'll agree with.  C'est la Vie.

 

Back to my retreat. My work here is done.  Carry on.    😁     

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@Cynique you are mistaken. Firstly your disagreement or agreement is not where your value lies. It's in your perspective. Pioneer had stated that he doesn't have the collegiate education so he argues simply. That is an honest and humble self assessment. I will post more rebuttals. 

However I have been struggling more with how Troy and K2 argue. At times I find them condescending. However wanting them to argue more like myself is just a different type of I am right you are wrong. I am also contemplating the point of any conversation. The binary is people agree or they don't. So I almost don't see the point. Except the one my partner made. Which was that doesn't sound good for  a person who likes thinking to stop talking. 

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As she drops the mic... The is why the forum will always be know as Cynique's Corner, for this is her house!

 

Cynique, what you wrote will not change Del's mind about you.  He is bigger than that... it is easy to brilliant and charismatic people in high regard. 🙂

 

Thanks for setting the record straight.  I'm sorry that the "gay white mason" caused your hiatus -- that is really saying something because even the Queen Kola Boof did not cause you to retreat 😉 and she could be vicious.

 

Del I think the only reason you find what I say "condescending" is because you disagree with me, but can't argue on the merits.

 

It takes all types of people to keep a forum going.  It is easier when there are more voices.  I believe this will change in our favor as the big social sites piss more people off and people begin to migrate back to indie platforms.  Even the software that run this forum is rapidly improving, so I believe this will improve over time.

 

I think the participation of women in these forums is a key missing component, but I'm not aware of a forum where men and women engage in an ongoing basis to note best practices.  Lipstick Alley the standard setter for forums is primarily female.  This forum used to have a great balance between the genders, which is what made it great, in my opinion.

 

I could always come here and read something that would make me laugh out loud, that still happens but not as frequently. @Cynique's opening line, "...Egads, man, have you lost your mind?" made me laugh out loud I'm even chuckjling to myself as I write this.  It is one of those jokes made funnier because people have a history.

 

From Harry Brown to Richard Murray and from Del to Mel you all bring this thing to life.  But occasionally someone like Cynique will come along and bring a brilliance that is rare gift.  Welcome to Cynique's Corner.

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To reiterate my point on education, was there not a discussion of its importance and opinions arguing to the contrary? I also recall a point I put forth, made with regards to one 'Delano's' need to expand his academic horizons; which was also a purely "honest" opinion based on my observations guided by empirical evidence of most of my Black brothers.

 

YES, I ADMIT, that I too am conflicted with profiling other people; sometimes inaccurately, I might add. Considering I'm in need of additional academic exposure myself, I understand no-one can know everything and so, everyone stands in need of additional academically exposure. Regardless of achievements.

 

What I never do is apologize for my 'honestshortcomings or deliberate unprovoked misstatements. Even if I offend people. I attempt to see through all clever rhetoric and interpret opinionated commentary in ways that conform to my biased, emotional allegiance the Black perspective, worldview. However, there are some members here who think, believe that my offensive position(s) require apology, suckers for gratitude and compliments.

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I am not certain why acknowledging one person is a slight to someone else.

I had a lot of issues with Pioneer's statements. Until you said he doesn't think conceptually, and then when he stated how he approached a subject of was struck by his statements. 

I don't often see people conceding the point in most discussions. However Pioneer will often ask a a question or ask for proof to either refute his position or prove the opposing position. You also ask questions because you want clarification. Some  of Troy's questions don't have that same inquisitive feel.

Mel questions are more about shaping the answer to the question. Clearly that's my perception. 

 

However I can't recall Pioneer admitting he was mistaken. Which Troy K2 will do more readily. 

Part of my past frustration was with Pioneer's style and content. It is a bit elitist of me to reject discourse and opinions that seem less attractive or polished. 

I am cool and detached until I care. So you are correct and wrong at the same time. I have sat done or talked with the following "people ": prostitutes, strippers, a transformation prostitute, transwoman, Ceo, Presidential candidate, former drug dealer. bouncers, bar manager, entrepreneurs, tattoo artist, Dj, performance artist, artist. plumber programmer, composer, dancers, astrologers, wizard, witch, teacher, administrators, bar tenders,  actor ,  rock star. Researchers. 

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I love your mind too much. I think you need conflict. Towards the end you have been prickly in general. I don't look forward to conversations but your absence is worse. However you may be tired of hearing your own cranky raves.  So do not project that onto me. I am more than capable of making nonsensical comments on my own.

17 minutes ago, Troy said:

 

Del I think the only reason you find what I say "condescending" is because you disagree with me, but can't argue on the merits

That is the epitome of condescension. Troy.  But you may too arrogant to see that to be true.

 

19 minutes ago, Troy said:

Cynique, what you wrote will not change Del's mind about you.  He is bigger than that...

 

it is easy to brilliant and charismatic people in high regard. 🙂

I agree on the first part. 

 

The second part is a display of your intellectual superiority to me. 

21 minutes ago, Troy said:

occasionally someone like Cynique will come along and bring a brilliance that is rare gift.  Welcome to Cynique's Corner.

I miss her cranky ass. 

22 minutes ago, Kalexander2 said:

However, there are some members here who think, believe that my offensive position(s) require apology, suckers for gratitude and compliments.

Who do you believe is needing or expecting an apology from you.

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1 hour ago, Delano said:

I miss her cranky ass. 

 

🙂 Me too.

 

Del you see my statement as condescension and now arrogant to boot.   This is tantamount to just call me names. At the risk of coming across as condescending, a strong argument would be much more effective at getting your point across.

 

1 hour ago, Delano said:

I am not certain why acknowledging one person is a slight to someone else.

 

The thoughts that drove you to write this statement is purely a figment of your imagination Del.  Can you describe why you wrote this?

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Simple, the 'vain' assumption I was referring to you!!! Or, was that meant to be a clever disclaimer of the obvious?

 

One thing is certain, Delano, much of what you say is accurate, among your many pointed views are unintelligible assertions, but I use silence and avoidance in unscrupulous ways towards obscure ends. Also, I don't like to see a Black underdog dogged, especially by other Blacks.

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Del

I am truly touched by your kind words.

As Troy said, I would call myself HONEST but I wouldn't call myself too humble.
I have an ego and I do like to show off from time to time, but only on those things about myself that are TRUE and that I KNOW I can back up.

Truth and honesty are part of my moral code, but humility is not necessarily.
Although it does have it's place in the presence of legendary people.

What you may see as humility (and what Cynique claims is "phony"....lol ) could rather be considered more of a defense mechanism that I've developed over the years as a person who has been active in community organizations to deal with so many people with far more education and academic creditials.
I learned that I get along with people far better when I respect their position and acknowledge mine.


But if I'm at all humbled, it's from being around intellectually powerhouses like you and Troy.

BTW......
If you'll remember, I TOLD you months ago that if I weren't around Cynique would start picking on you or Mel.
You're seeing evidence of this now.


 



People

Lol........
How can we miss someone who has never left?

Cynique only CLAIMED she was going away to get a reaction.
What she REALLY did was run up "underground" so that she could monitor MY comments and how others would continue to react to me in her "abscence" of constant criticism. 

She tried to keep it cool as long as she could but like she said....when Del had something nice ot say about me she couldn't control herself.
That little turtle HAD to crawl up out of her hole and start cussing and snapping at everyone in sight......lol.


Image result for snapping turtle

Rest assured, if I REALLY thought my presence would cause Cynique to actually LEAVE....I would save you all the headache and drama and say my good byes.
As I've said before, she ain't going nowhere.....but to the store to get some more snacks to much one while monitoring this site, lol.

The woman is obsessed!

The only thing that would cause HER to leave if if I left; because Pioneer's got her ass on LOCK !

 

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2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Truth and honesty are part of my moral code, but humility is not necessarily.
Although it does have it's place in the presence of legendary people.

Gold.

 

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Rest assured, if I REALLY thought my presence would cause Cynique to actually LEAVE....I would save you all the headache and drama and say my good byes.

I rest my case gentlemen and K2.

K2 I don't respond because I can't make sense of your verbage typos and grammatical spaghetti. 

Half the active posters don't want to converse with you. 

Troy nice bait but I am not biting. ..this time. 

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Yes, it's trueCynique does have a way of getting under your skin. Perhaps if she used an astronomical chart, crystal ball, or Ouija board she would be equal to you; I'm sure her level of academic exposure is quite profound, however. More than I can say for some here, maybe even myself.

 

Obviously, it is also true complimenting each other, and the likeminded trends towards two worms copulating in their own bucket of snot, your comfort zone. How slimy is that?  

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What!?  @Delano Pioneer just rejected your assertion to his being humble, and you rest your case? 

 

You also made another statement that you couldn't back up; I call you on it, and you call it "bait."  Bait for what Del?  Why are you so paranoid?  You only feel like someone is trying to trap you because you must have done something you are afraid of getting caught it.   I think if you reflect on your reactions to things you'll better understand you own motivations, for you seem to be motivated more from what is inside you than what has actually happened (what I described earlier as your "gut" reaction.)

 

Again I was not trying to trap you. I was simply trying to understand where you were coming from by making it crystal clear that I saw no justification for what you wrote and inquired where you came up with the idea.

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2 hours ago, Cynique said:

      It's OK,  Pioneer.  Del luvs you. ð


......and so do YOU, lol.

You aren't fooling anyone on here with your vitriol.

Any normal person over 30 can tell that any woman who puts as much focus and energy on a man as YOU do with ME must have "something" going on with her.


I've said it before and I'll say it again:

My presence is both troublesome as well as stimulating to you and you also have a slight attraction to me.
And the more you post TO me or ABOUT me the more evidence you produce to support my statement.......lol.


Despite initially denying it and claiming that my presence is absolutely NO concern of yours and doesn't matter.....you NOW claim otherwise by claiming I was one of the reasons you decided to take a break.

A lot of people didn't catch the fact that you said there was MORE THAN ONE reason, but I did.....lol.

I'm just curious what the OTHER reason(s) were that you decided to leave.

I'm guessing K2's presence was probably another, but I may be wrong........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Troy

 

What!? @Delano Pioneer just rejected your assertion to his being humble, and you rest your case?


I didn't reject it, I just compared MY opinion with HIS.

Humility is an OBJECTIVE observation that depends on the opinion of the observer....not the one being observed.

In other words......
He can consider me humble and I can consider myself not....and we can BOTH be correct in our observation.

But if you notice, he was absolutle correct about my honesty....which is a little more concrete and absolute than humility.

 



Again I was not trying to trap you. I was simply trying to understand where you were coming from by making it crystal clear that I saw no justification for what you wrote and inquired where you came up with the idea.


Lol......

I thought he explained it pretty articulately when he said that he based it on the observation that I was open enough to admit my academic short comings.

If someone comes to you and admits they are poor.
Or admits they are of low intelligence.
Or admits they are ugly.
Or just admits they made a lot of bad decisions in life.

........would you turn around and accuse them of being a pompous egotistical ass with delusions of grandeur?

......or would you consider it a sign of HUMILITY (until they gave you another explanation)?

 

 

 


Del


K2 I don't respond because I can't make sense of your verbage typos and grammatical spaghetti.

Half the active posters don't want to converse with you.


I don't think he makes sense half the time either, but to be honest for the sake of conversation I DID engage for a while.....until the fool talked about my mother.

That's a BIG "no no".....lol.

 

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UH OH, the antiquated impostureunable to accept rejection, iattempting another psychological flirt, only with a bit more zest this time; will probably find little changed:

 

"When someone shows you who they are they are, believe them the first time" - Maya Angelou. You've always had at least one worm who loves you! Maybe not Cynique though!

Why can't you correct me yourself, do you always call on a woman to fight your battles? 

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3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Troy

 

What!? @Delano Pioneer just rejected your assertion to his being humble, and you rest your case?


I didn't reject it, I just compared MY opinion with HIS.

Humility is an OBJECTIVE observation that depends on the opinion of the observer....not the one being observed.

In other words......
He can consider me humble and I can consider myself not....and we can BOTH be correct in our observation.

But if you notice, he was absolutle correct about my honesty....which is a little more concrete and absolute than humility.

 



Again I was not trying to trap you. I was simply trying to understand where you were coming from by making it crystal clear that I saw no justification for what you wrote and inquired where you came up with the idea.


Lol......

I thought he explained it pretty articulately when he said that he based it on the observation that I was open enough to admit my academic short comings.

If someone comes to you and admits they are poor.
Or admits they are of low intelligence.
Or admits they are ugly.
Or just admits they made a lot of bad decisions in life.

........would you turn around and accuse them of being a pompous egotistical ass with delusions of grandeur?

......or would you consider it a sign of HUMILITY (until they gave you another explanation)?

Troy do you require further elucidation. 

I said it just yesterday you conflate things I say, and don't see the subtlety. 

I use my gut And my brain. 

K2 the word you mean to use is astrological not astronomical. 

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4 hours ago, Troy said:

You also made another statement that you couldn't back up; I call you on it, and you call it "bait."  Bait for what Del?  Why are you so paranoid?  You only feel like someone is trying to trap you because you must have done something you are afraid of getting caught it. 

I could have an irrational paranoia that isn't based on anything. I have included the Oxford English Dictionary (OED I sense I will need to use this abbreviation  on a regular basis (and it's not for Pioneer )

Unjustified suspicion and mistrust of other people.

 

K2 You may want to use the Oxford thesaurus as well. 

 

astrology

The study of the movements and relative positions of celestial bodies interpreted as having an influence on human affairs and the natural world.


astronomy

The branch of science which deals with celestial objects, space, and the physical universe as a whole

 

 

2 hours ago, Kalexander2 said:

UH OH, the antiquated impostureunable to accept rejection, iattempting another psychological flirt, 

Can someone other than K2 explain these sentence fragments. To be fair the last one is a sentence. A sentence at minimum requires  a Noun then a verb. Your first fragment in addition to not making sense doesn't have a verb. Your second fragment has an object without a subject. 

 

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4 hours ago, Kalexander2 said:

I'm sure her level of academic exposure is quite profound, however

Can someone explain what K2 is trying to say.

 

4 hours ago, Kalexander2 said:

More than I can say for some here, maybe even myself.

It's not maybe. Cynique is a writer and a critical thinker. You can't  compare yourself to ... anyone ... at least not rationally. Although that doesn't seem to be an issue with you.

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3 hours ago, Kalexander2 said:

Why can't you correct me yourself,

Why I am explaining basic sentence structure to a "writer".

I won't insult your intelligence you writing  is doing it for me.

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9 hours ago, Cynique said:

Pioneer is one of the reasons i stopped posting because i found his stance on most things so insufferable, i needed to remove myself from an atmosphere of "familiarity breeding contempt", a situation reminding me that "if you can't say anything good, it's best to not say anything at all". My time here was up because my having difficulty in findinganything good to say about anything, made me a liability.  Taking a break was not a hard decision.  i had stayed too long at the party.  And Troy and Mel do a very good job of keeping things real.  Who needs my contrarian input?  🤐

My position was clearly stated but, as usual, people overlooked everything i said and saw what they wanted to see and decided i took a break from posting here solely because of pioneer. Del should've let sleeping dogs lie, instead of bringing my name into the conversation.

 

  3 hours ago, Kalexander2 said:

UH OH, the antiquated impostureunable to accept rejection, iattempting another psychological flirt, only with a bit more zest this time; will probably find little changed:

 

"When someone shows you who they are they are, believe them the first time" - Maya Angelou. You've always had at least one worm who loves you! Maybe not Cynique though

That was a remarkably accurate statement in regard to pioneer's rant, Kalexander. You were on point this time! Why of all the guys on this board, would a dufus like pioneer be my choice for anything other than rejection? (He'd regularly bring up the subject of my 72 year old boy toy and would mistakenly take my responses to this as a sign that it was me initiating the subject because  i had eyes for him, - probably something for him to think about during his sessions with his blow up doll 🤭

 

It also amazes me how transparent the reason is for Del's reaction to you, being so different from his reaction to Pioneer. It's like he imagines that adopting pioneer makes him look more magnanimous and compassionate, as he tries to fit a square peg into a round hole by totally mis-characterizing Pioneer as humble - and wise(?) 🤣  I'm disappointed in how he has stooped to such bathos. ) Whatever.  But at least he admitted that he was not objective or concerned with facts.  😴

 

Gotta go.  i don't want to get stuck back in this viscous mire of vicious opinions. I will simply co-sign to whatever Troy says, for the simple reason that he comes closest to my way of thinking.    

 

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@Cynique o said there are no facts and objectivity. Before you go can you explain. Cynique you questioned K2 claim as a writer no you are holding him up. You may be projecting here.

I said his admission of his shortcomings was humble and honest. I also said that I can't recall him admitting he was wrong . So a person can be humble and honest in their self assessment . Yet be a braggart art in conversation. That's not a subtle point because especially since Pioneer explained it overtly. 

 

Cynique your recent post are uncharacteristically off note.

I am too high strung and get annoyed to easily to see myself as being compassionate. 

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@Del I never questioned Kalexander's claims as a writer.  I was skeptical about him having a degree in journalism.  But i repeat, his assessment of pioneer's hogwash was actually on point to me, possibly because we were on the same wave length. 

 

You did a 360 degree turn on pioneer who you used to clash with because he'd needle you about your convoluted sentences and psychic predictions.  Then you had this great epiphany and decided to canonize him and proclaim him the saint of Every Man, the anti-dote for Troy's academic intellect.  Folks have changes of heart, although when Kalexander first came on this board, i remarked that i liked him OK because he could take criticism and was refreshingly kooky.  

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@Cynique: I opined before and now again. THAT GUY HAS A SERIOUS CRUSH ON YOU; I don't know, maybe he's compensating for some other personal inadequacy which would explain why he's not actively stalking you. Please stay alert for things like that.

 

Incidentally, I do apologize TO YOU AND MY OTHER BLACK SISTERS here, for my profane rhetoric in response to some of the yo-yo's here. And don't worry about Pioneer1 the prilgrim0.01 because if you were available he never had what it'll take to best me. With, and only with your discretionary approval of course; because as opposed to him, I respect and revere my Black sisters! Another reason I boil just thinking of him using that damn 'N' word. 

 

Astrology/astronomy, anywhere but on the planet earth which brings back into question your so-called education. Is astrology/astronomy your definition, idea of a sound education, if so than its little wonder of my previous assumption of you lacking in that department.

 

I am curious, just how much effort, weight have your responses to these discussions are, is, were based on something in the stars? Thus far, I've taken you partially serious as to your reasoning and logic, I'm starting to conclude you have no idea what you're talking about, on everything.

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"It also amazes me how transparent the reason is for Del's reaction to you, being so different from his reaction to Pioneer. It's like he imagines that adopting pioneer makes him look more magnanimous and compassionate, as he tries to fit a square peg into a round hole by totally mis-characterizing Pioneer as humble - and wise(?) 🤣  I'm disappointed in how he has stooped to such bathos. ) Whatever.  But at least he admitted that he was not objective or concerned with facts."

 

Truth is, I understand and regress, Delano felt challenged when I questioned his academic exposure; when I attempted to recant it apparently wasn't to his satisfaction. He chose the easy, more unchallenged route, "Pioneer1" who gave him what he needed to hear, for validation and approval. Convenient for Pioneer1 because now he has an ally when he feels threaten. 

 

They're just ordinary, important human beings, at least one Black, seeking approval from each other.  The first time we clashed (Delano and I) his supporting response was "I've been to Troy's house" said a great deal about him. 

😴

 

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K2 you are the only person I have met in my entire life who thought I needed more education. So I was more questioning your powers of observation.

Once again I have  no idea what you mean by mentioning I have been to Troy's house. Hie are you going to defend Cynique. Despite the fact she hasn't asked nor requires. You also make more references to gay men.

You  may write but you don't seem like a journalist. If you want to fix a mess start with your writing .

How I. The name of all that is profane can you even consider comparing your self to Cynique.

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Not true, brother, shortly after I subscribed to this site, during a discussion between you and I, you responded with an assertion that you've been to Troy's house ... I took this to mean your way of demonstrating you're special, I am not because you know brother Troy better than I. Sister Cynique corrected my spelling of bosom buddies. Furthermore, I have no powers, except over myself, brother. 

 

And if I am indeed the only person who's suggested you should learn more -- than you may need more honest people around you. In-case you havn't noticed, sister Cynique requires no defending from a man, nor wo-man, I give credit where it is due and sometimes whenever it is simply convenient, for me. That's the truth!  

 

Not only have I made references to gay men, I suggested Pioneer1 may be gay; especially after he posted a depiction of a half-naked male. Regardless of the reason he did it. You see, I'm fine with who I am. Though I remain always open to constructive criticism I find little use of such coming from a person who seems to always need to lean on other people for validation and approval. Again, I do not compare to anyone. Cynique may demonstrate her passion however she like. I simply like the sister. I assure you, my passion is often offensive because I don't give a Fu*k!!!

 

But you do recognize when you're being checked; there's nothing wrong with that. It's a good sign. Most people just cover their eyes believing the matter doesn't exist if they can't see it. I'm not one of them, as a child does! By no means do suggest you're a child. You're not!   

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