Michel Montvert

This issue of who was "black" in ancient times can be very contentious, a reflection of the racism in our society which often affects peoples' interpretations of history. "Oh, they HAD to be black," or "Oh, they HAD to be white,"... and why? Because we want them to be one or the other. We have to define the terms if we pursue this. What does "black" mean? Here in the USA we labor under a one-drop notion that any discernible "blackness", evidence of African ancestry, makes one "black". So, if we saw an Egyptian from 3000 years ago who was actually 1/4 African, we'd call the person "black". Well, I had a friend who was caramel-colored, she went to Africa to visit, expected people to welcome her back home, and instead in Nigeria people laughed at her and called her "chicken flesh". To them she was essentially "white". Hmmm. so what does "black" mean? The Bible doesn't often mention skin color because it was not an issue then. They were not in the USA raised in this color-obsessed culture. What we know about Egypt, looking here at scientific data rather than the Bible, is that the civilization began in Upper Egypt among a mixture of Nile Valley Neolithics and Saharans. Both groups were African, which is to say, "black". Very quickly Egypt became rich and powerful and attracted many migrants. and so by the Middle Kingdom, Egypt was quite mixed. Many people there in fact therefore looked a lot like many African-Americans. Many like to look at Eurasian DNA found in Egyptian mummies from the Middle or New Kingdom and then proclaim that, "See, Egyptians were just like today's Arabs or Berbers." But of course they're ignoring Egypt's origins and the changes which were always occurring as more people came into Egypt both from Eurasia and from the South (Africa). As for Israelites, the same dynamic applies. They enter history already mixed, like many of the Semites of the Levant and Mesopotamia. Some of their ancestry did come in from the north. The peoples in the various hills and mountains of the "Fertile Crescent" were quite diverse, from the Zagros Mts. to Anatolia and the northern Levant, but all of Eurasian types. Likewise, there was migration out of Africa, especially through Yemen, of "black" people. so that today in southern Arabia genetic studies show the population to be of 22% African descent. The Israelites, as well as the other Semites, therefore had African admixture in their population. So... who was "black"? If we went back to the time of the Kingdom of Israel, we'd see many Israelites whom in the USA we'd call "black". Most would have looked like what we loosely term "Mediterranean" today... like Greeks, Moroccans, Lebanese, etc. To anthropologists "race" is interesting only as it indicates migrational history and mixing of various groups. What really identifies people is their culture. Again, in the USA we've a confused view of this, since 2 of our ethnic groups are named after colors (black anad white)! And so, in the USA we are often confused about all of this, not understanding that ethnicity has nothing to do with race, really. But for both of these 2 groups, ethnic ancestry is very mixed. Whites are Scottish, English, German, Irish, Italian, Dutch, etc. Blacks are Yoruba, Bambara, Mandinke, etc. Then in Virginia in the 17th century the categories "black" and "white" were codified, creating an oppressive social division (which worked against working class whites as well as blacks) and engendering an obsession with color which is still with us, as evidenced by the intense arguments over whether Egyptians or Israelites were "black" or "white". The joke's on us, since most Israelites in ancient times likely wouldn't quality as "white" even if they weren't "black". So... what was Jesus? Answer: He was a Jew.

Wait just a minute... Trump, DeSantis and Abbott got to WHERE? I don't believe in this heaven-hell Zoroastrianist-Judaean-Christian dichotomy, but to use that imagery, those 3 are headed for hell. We who believe in reincarnation expect that they are facing many lifetimes as sewer rats.

This sounds like the spew currently being emitted by every Republican traitor in Congress! Banana republic? We have the rule of law here, and Trump is a criminal. I've lived in one of those "banana republics" and it is not like this. How would Trump know, as he couldn't find any of them on a map. Trump is a megalomaniac traitor, a racist, misogynist, grifter, con-man, traitor... he fights for only himself. Defund the Police, is that what you're saying? How amusing to hear that coming from Trumpoid traitors. Y'all really are too fogged up to even notice how ludicrous is your every pronouncement. Russian collusion was no hoax. Members of Trump's team were meeting with Russian dirty-tricksters. Clearly Trump was working for Putin, as he defended him and met secretly with him. His actions served Putin's interests consistently. And, oh yeah, lest we forget, Trump attempted an insurrection to overthrow an election and install himself as dictator. And that's ok with his supporters, every one of them thereby a TRAITOR. That's the word for it: TRAITOR. Move to Russia now.

Well I read it... this newsletter, that is. I think I will read Sankofa University. I have been long interested in Afrocentric approaches to history, as I share the awareness that black history has been occluded, to put it mildly. I'm educated as an anthropologist and have tried to understand Africa on its own terms, not through the "Heart of Darkness" lens. My area of concentration has been more in America, studying indigenous people and current populations in USA and Mesoamerica. I jump right into the argument over the Olmecs. I don't think ANYONE from outside was in Mexico influencing them or other civilizations there. No blacks, no whites. I do accept, based on obvious facts, that Egyptian civilization was created by black people. Anyway... thanks for the lead to that book. I'm retired and out of the loop and am not always in contact with much of anything out there...

I was a teenager when Star Trek came on the air. I had been since age 9 very pro-civil rights, after an epiphany at age 9 when we visited Virginia and I first saw Jim Crow segregation... well that's another story. Some racist VA cracker turned me into a supporter of the movement very quickly when in his anger he revealed to me the real face of racism. It was scary and evil, like looking into the face of a devil. Anyway... so when I saw Lt. Uhura on TV I was very glad. She was supercool. She was black. The only bigotry on that show was that Dr. McCoy didn't like Vulcans! Star Trek has been a force for good. Remember the episode in the original series with the people from a planet where they were black on one side and white on the other, but they hated each other based on which side was white and which black. A very obvious message that RACISM is stupid. What Nichelle Nichols did regarding NASA was brilliant. Really I love all those actors. Shatner is cool. George Takei, I love when he sounds off. Ms. Nichols did indeed "boldly go", fighting for a better future. I know where she is now, she is also good and courageous.

Well shucks I'm new and didn't want to start cluttering up the place but so few are posting... I have a friend who's a black philosopher, professor at a State U, organizer for BLM, etc., and I'm passing this forum's URL to him and hope that he'll spread the word. He knows a lot of the "right people". I'm not even black and so not inclined to start spewing all my opinions as you don't need some white radical jumping in trying to dominate the conversation. But damn. somebody has to talk! My vote is BAN trolls who post all this anti-black crap. It serves no purpose. We've all seen all this racism before and don't need to keep on seeing it. That's my opinion.

"The forum is under constant attract by trolls they are not extended invitations as some might believe. Most of the accounts that are created here are banned after they are created. I'm sure I've banned legitimate posters, but I find it is better be overly cautious rather than too lax. I don't remember when I approved your account @Michel Montvert, but most of the accounts I do approve never post." You just approved my account in the last 2 days. Yes what you're saying about the internet---sad but true. Oh I'm no troll. I'm just an old guy frustrated with the way the world is going looking for intelligent discourse. You are fighting an uphill battle, I say that not to discourage you but to say HOORAY for you for putting in all this effort. In my experience, ANY forum or chatroom labelled as "African-American" will attract Kluxers and other assorted racist scum. A Jewish forum attracts Nazis. Native American forums are crawling with white racists. It's sickening. This is not a Golden Age of civilization. sadly...

This forum already is head and shoulders above most of them. I mean... reading groups? Too good to be true! 2 big problems with forums: 1. they're oriented to an ideology and won't tolerate dissidence, and so are sounding boards. This is usually in evidence on the Right, of course. I've been banned from such places simply for offering a different point of view. 2. disruptor trolls have become a tactic for the Right. Many of them are Russian (I get my posts deleted in many places for mentioning this. I was accused of "hate speech" against Russians!). In addition to the St. Petersburg crowd, there are a lot of rightwing Trumpoid trolls who cruise tirelessly. Well, this forum has a defined topic and purpose and so #1 is avoided. As for the disruptors, the key is simply to weed them out, and quickly. I'll engage a rightwinger in reasoned conversation about politics, but engaging the flame warriors is pointless. Well I just got here and should shut up and listen for a while.

Thank you, Troy. OMG this forum is intelligent! Nearly all of the ones I find are just flame-war battlegrounds. I think it has always been true in the USA that African-Americans are in the forefront of the fight for justice which benefits all of us (I'm an Appalachian white). That was certainly true in the 60s (which I'm old enough to remember) and it's still true. So I'm happy to march with you, or engage in whatever form the struggle takes that I can manage at my age. We have a big battle impending, the possibility of that Orange Megalomaniac returning to power which in my opinion pushes us into full fascism. They'll be coming after black people, gays, progressives, immigrants, Muslims... oh hell and even women! This forum provides a very positive contribution to the struggle against that! Thanks!

This is another time I hate to be right. Watching all the nonsense propaganda regurgitated by the white right over "CRT" (which none of them know anything about), I was telling some friends here, watch, this is about removing Harriet Tubman and MLK from the schools. I know some teacher will teach about one of them and be accused of CRT. And here we are. Are the goals of this Trump MAGA movement clear to everyone yet? They are the White Citizens Councils. They are the KKK. They are what has happened in far too many countries---fascism. Overt open fascism, not the friendly fascism we've had so far. I was a teacher. I'm glad I taught the truth. I'm glad that in those days I could get away with it!

It is sad indeed to watch the govt including Democrats do nothing about the already obvious list of felonies committed by the Orange Narcissist. What happens now will be the indicator if the system as a whole has decided to allow the USA to slide into fascism or not. Trump clearly belongs in Club Fed. Is it all a colossal sham, a show? Or can we trust anyone, even the FBI, even the progressive Democrats, at this point? The entire world is ominously dysfunctional and worse by the day. At this point I have to say, Here's hoping we survive!