Mel Hopkins

@Troy what you “think” and the tacit support you seem to offer others who practice child rape and child-marriage sends a conflicting message. So let me be very clear. Both parties need to be of the age of consent to enter into marriage. In some states this is not the case which mean a guardian must sign for a minor. That is considered a FORCED marriage. Both parties must be able to consent to engage in sex. This applies to both singles and married couples . A husband can’t force a wife to have sex and vice-versa. If this occurs it’s rape. Anyone under the age of consent is considered an “infant” in legal terms or minor in lay terms. Infants cannot consent to anything. A guardian or a parent can’t consent to sex for a child in any state in the U.S.A further it is ILLEGAL to have sex with anyone 13 or younger. It’s not love to force their selves or commit an illegal act against a child. @Pioneer1 where’s the lie? ”Above puberty” was your cut off point. Most girls are “ABOVE” puberty by 12...in many cases 10-years-old. It is only force if an adult man is having sex with a girl who is “ABOVE” puberty. Maybe you might want to include an age to clarify what you consider above puberty. Children UNDER the Age of Consent, in most cases, are “ABOVE puberty”

It is awful but some don’t care if it destroys some girl’s life - or her offspring’s life with that man if he’s a “great” by some arbitary standard. Mainstream media shows that this is the general consensus of the public. Girls are consumables like sunday dinner offered to “feed” men of alleged stature. I do appreciate @Pioneer1 and @Troy being so forthcoming with their position on girls and women. This should allow them to see how and why feminism has gain strength among women in general but especially black women. We have to demand equal protection under the law for all aspects or our lives. Women must protect ourselves financially, spiritually, economically, politically, and physically. But here’s a perspective to consider, @Troy and others; same-sex marriage is legal in this country now. There are quite a few older men that have had their eyes on tenderoni boys. And while it is illegal to rape - (although we probably know some men who were raped when they were boys) these men can now marry boys once they reach puberty too! It really doesn’t matter if these boys want to consent to sex with a man. In fact, these boys may not even know their sexual orientation yet. They weren’t thinking about sex - they were too busy being children. You know, like the 10, 11,12, 13 year old girls who’ve reached puberty and still play with toys, enjoy learning and playing sports , that Pioneer seems to think are fair game. It doesn’t matter what these boys were doing as kids, because those same state’s age-of-consent laws for marriage now also applies to boys. So now we have boys setting up house with grown men - because it’s legal and shouldn’t have any bearing on the man’s position - if he’s doing great things. 😏 <smirking face>

@Cynique Same here. It becomes an insufferable bore because of what’s NOT being said. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve found myself in a “pearls-clutching” scenario either because of what I said or did. My bestie could hang;, her “extensive” training left them groveling and in tears when necessary - she didn’t play. @Delano yes! I’ve followed Mario’s career and his daughter played in his SyFy show “Superstition” . The narrative rivaled Neil Gaiman’s “American Gods” because it resurrected the African Gods and Goddesses of old and wrote and produced a TV series around them. I don’t think it was renewed but it was excellent. Maybe someone will write a book based on it.

@Cynique This is still true although “Boule” in this context refers to the biennial meeting of my sorors of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. “The Boule’ (Sigma Pi Phi) the organization of Black Elite Men is still strong today with an estimated 5000 members who contain some of the same Black men who have chaired or still sit on the boards of the largest corporations, serve in the U.S. Government ; executive level of the nation’s top universities such as Gregory Vincent https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregory-vincent-681232b/ The fraternities of the Divine Nine still have the same mission - Of course I’m not a member but last year an A phi A friend of mine called, seemingly, to make sure I’d put in a word with my Kappa baby-daddy because he wanted to host a party at my baby-daddy’ and his powerful attorney wife’s martha’s vineyard home for a New York political candidate. It happened. I’m a degree away from the “elites” and their power moves; but to be honest, I never felt comfortable in their world , choosing not to even marrying into it when the opportunity arose. @Troy Lawrence Otis Graham wrote a book on “Our Kind of People” and that book just scratched the surface of Old Money Black Elite... but it’s not fiction or old news. One of my best friends, I met at Tech, came from that world. She was kind of a rebel; graduating from Ethical Culture Fieldston School before attending and graduating Tech, from Mount Holyoke, and from Cornell with a JD/MBA. She was so “fancy” she opened a literary gallery in SoHo prominently featuring bchildren’s book black illustrators... I went to the opening it was fabulous! Never seen it duplicated. But I digress. That world exist and hasn’t lost its steam or exclusive membership. While not at the level of “The Boule” in political power, but in numbers, recently, the Kappas came out to support their frat Colin Kaepernick. These black men still congregate but maybe not to “chit chat” but with an social political and economic agenda. Anyway, to Delano’s comment I guess there’s no “fighting, egoism et al in the upper echelon of society because they’re the folks who throw away the scraps “we” fight over. @Delanoas for “Sweet, SweetBack, Badass Song” Director -I have no opinion but in the late 90s he told a reporter he didn’t have a PHd in Negrology and I’ve used that line ever since.

@Delano why not? 🤷🏽‍♀️ Women’s groups have Su-Su...But let me get a hint that’s the case and you’ll see my expose’ in Fortune Magazine.

@Delano As a loner, I spend an inordinate amount of time studying people ... I could ‘t include Reginald Lewis because he died 25 years ago and wasn’t under my microscope. I did learn about him when I was researching black wealth. He was a Kappa - ( Kappa Alpha Psi Fraternity, Inc.) So this aspect of his profile fits into my theory ... and Spike Lee graduated from Morehouse College, As you know an HBCU for men! Spike Lee didn’t pledge but frats and sororities were featured prominently in School Daze .. Aside: Spike Lee didn’t have to sell out because he featured the middle class black slice of life in his films. A novelty in Hollywood in the late 80s Early 90s but perfect timing for the Cosby Show, “A different world” Even the “Da Sweet blood of Jesus” showed upscale blacks ... And remember he also featured Public Enemy on the soundtrack of “Do the right thing” and the promotion too! I agree he’s a marketing genius. He filmed DTRT in my old neighborhood. but I digress. I think you’ve raised another issue about black men networks: how they get their money for these ventures isn’t common knowledge. Do a search on how Jay Z paid for Tidal or Sean paid for Revolt network and see what comes up. I did spy how Fiddy got money for his film production company - but that took a lot of sleuthing. Thank You for this! I hadn’t really noticed the connection between black men networks and success. Hmm, Maybe that’s why white men won’t let white women in their clubs 😳😳😳

@Delano It appears the upper rungs display unity via social and professional development. I’m on the outside but it appears these men enjoy sustained financial and professional success as music artists turned entrepreneurs. In fact, I believe there was an article that talked about a friendly competition between Sean Combs and Jay Z and them climbing to the top of the Forbes list. They all seem to be linked in their own fraternity that looks like a venn diagram with some who are entrepreneurs, media moguls -music service streamers, Cable Network owners, filmmakers, et al. I believe Fiddy is also included in that “frat” too... The all started together so I guess as they moved up they only had each other. Most recently with Kim Porter’s death Tabloids reported how she worked behind the scenes at Bad Boy Entertainment but I get the sense it’s an old boy’s network. I can’t answer whether black men unifying at every level will make a difference. But I can say every financially, professionally successful man I’ve dated participated in a network of like-minded men. YES! In fact, some say it’s the lure of that level of bonding that made them join! Yes!

@Troy You made two specific statement that came to full stop. It wasn’t an absolute because you also said “Most” but your statement didn’t say most black men don’t congregate. It’s not conducive to PUBLISHING success. You wrote in that sentence: “It’s not conducive to success” I didn’t make it an absolute - I responded to your claim. I mentioned fraternities, but I also gave examples of the freemasons, The BOULE , 100 black men etc. Even If you look up the membership of THE BOULE you will see those men didn’t come to play on any white boy level. And even white boys know it. These men play at the level of self-proclaimed nobility. What I know of some of the fraternity men - they do too. Some of the frat members are in the Boule’. So in this case, moderate-to-working class black men may not network -but the boys with big suspenders do... Maybe that’s what’s missing in your quest to get middle-aged black men noticed. - There needs to be unity among black men at all levels of the economic ladder. We women can’t continue to be your biggest supporters. Y’all have to be each other’s support.

@Troy It only takes one person to destroy an empire. You do realize not speaking up against one man’s action, a man who also happens to be a leader of the organization means they did not protect the women against this one man. According to the news report, their lack of protection became a detriment to the entire organization. So, in this case, if they defended the girls BEFORE Elijah got to them, they could’ve saved the estate from a multitude of court cases and financial loss.

@Troy I am - thanks to my mother, oldest daughter and most surprising from when I worked as an international flight attendant. Depending on the caste -those are consensual marriages where the arrangment is more like a “bake sale”. In one case I know of, they can choose from a variety of people from the same town. (I think it’s weird because these folks have to be distant cousins.) The older sister has to marry first - then the next sister gets to pick. If the older sister is “fat” the younger sister gets to be single for a lot longer... I also know of couples who married outside of their caste and ethnicity too. Glad you cleared up you’re against forced marriages. I was giving you the side eye over here. 😊

@Troy ISN’T THIS YOUR QUOTE?

@Troy Here in the U.S. “arranged marriage” are consensual. Maybe “arranged selection” is a better description. While it’s debatable whether anyone thinks europeans are correct about marriage - we still have US code of common laws based on English law. Marriage is a legal and binding contract between two people. Before entering into the agreement, the two have to meet certain criteria. In addition to being of age of consent, the party can’t be coerced ; there has to be mutual consent AND of course they have to qualify for the marriage law itself. (It was just a few years ago same-sex marriage was outlawed) Any legal marriage here in the U.S. wasn’t arranged but rather the couple were asked to decide from a smaller pool of candidates. The families made an effort to find suitable mates to decide upon. The two always had the right to reject - especially if they decided on someone outside of the parameters. Most U.S. marriages occur in a similar fashion, with two people meeting within their social or professional groups. Many couples still meet each other’s family for approval. I assumed you were referring to forced marriage which is not legally binding in the U.S. BTW, whether marriage or being independent determines happiness is purely subjective.

@Troy We were talking about men forming groups and helping each other in their vocations. The groups I listed are men’s peer groups in response to your comment that men don’t congregate. These men don’t seem to have a problem gathering together to achieve social, professional and political goals.

@NubianFellow I’m in agreement. Sometimes, I wonder if those traditions are true African or from the Colonized African. There have been so many perverted folks who have enter the African countries with their “bibles” ... it makes me wonder how people who once lived in nature - turned on what’s natural. <-[The latter thought came from watching a video of the “Prince of Wales” in Ghana and a group were performing a dance around him... One commenter said, “those dancers as graceful as they birds they’re imitating.” They were! They looked like birds in their movement. I cried because - I had asked the Universe to show me how our ancestors were before all colonizing and pillaging Then when I saw those dancers everything I had studied made sense- from how we hunted, how we raise crops - to how we lived. I believe it was all in accordance with nature. So sad to read this about “Hyena” - it breaks my heart that these young lives are cut short and genocide ensues. While men can impregnate many women in a year - a women can only have one child maybe two in that same year. Impregnate a child give her a disease and we lose our future. I hope Africans and Africans in the diaspora can find the way back to our true roots.

This has been my case. Not that I will say a POV is right or wrong - but another perspective helps me to sharpen my view.

Oh, I get it! I tend to stay to myself but I force myself to mimic the behavior of my family and friends who are extremely social - they believe in being present. But I also find this to be the same for my men friends (not sexual) as well. Maybe this might be a “tribal” behavior and not gender-based. (I don’t know because I’m a loner)

How would you know, @Troy ? Are you a woman having your agency snatched? Your statement here is similar to Kanye’s “400 years Slavery was a choice.” Longevity doesn’t make it right...and definitely not right when old ass men are marrying children.

@Troy Except that is not true of the Black Elite ... which might speak volumes to their financial and professional success. There is: The Boule, 100 Black Men, Alpha Phi Alpha, Kappa Alpha Psi, Omega Psi Phi, Phi Beta Sigma, The Freemasons... @Delano so do you think the working class congregate at the barbershops - and form only transient relationships?

Clarification: This is a carry over from giving Elijah Muhammad a pass for sexually abusing girls in his charge. As a society, we can't give this a pass.

@Troy Seriously, you are a little LOT better at math than I - but even I know the GOP doesn't have major support - But they know the only way the GOP can win is with the electoral college and making it hard for most people to vote. It was like that when the white nationalist were DEMS in slavery times and it still works for the white nationalist now. The Electoral college has served the minority very well. BUT after this last election they are sounding the alarm because they believe they might lose Texas as a red state. Lose Texas and lose every presidential race forever. If they believed they were in the majority they wouldn't make it so difficult for the electorate to vote.

@Troy Is it different because black men aren't willing to network and support each other in the book publishing? I think with older folks there's a fear of congregating and supporting one another - but like with Joshua generation, young people don't share those fears. From my research it appears black men in Hollywood have their own "fraternity" And they promote each other to the white power structure. For example, that's how "Get out" got made. Also Hollywood's black men storytellers (directors, showrunners, et al) seem to also network and support black women storytellers (Directors, Screenwriters producers et al) So at least our stories are making it to the silver screen (For the record, I'm not talking about Black Panther ). I interviewed an actress-producer whose short film won a Student Academy Award. The director is a young black woman - who is now in the league with Spike Lee when he was starting out. The film was produced by two black women BUT some financing and support also came from the white Hollywood. So maybe that's why Hollywood Reporter covered the women... not for them but to alert the current power structure. Could be the same with the black men writers.

@Troy 71+ Million people voted for another candidate - 65 Million of those folks voted for Hilary AND 90 MILLION PEOPLE eligible to vote DIDN'T or COULDN'T VOTE AT ALL. Now I know you're good at math. At least you present as someone good at math - tell me how is that major support - Major meaning majority in this context. Dude can't even get a major approval rating. Erm, Rev Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr didn't die for us. He used his life to promote ideas that he hoped would better our position here. Let's not be dramatic.

@Pioneer1 , not sure where you've been for the last half century and the beginning of this one - sexual abuse, promiscuity and lying under oath about it got a white U.S. President Impeached. Further there have been far too many to count -nor would I list here, the number of political/social/cultural white leaders who had to leave their position for violating moral codes of infidelity, sexual abuse and impropriety, and that is in this century alone. Even Strom Thurmond was spared because he took care of his illegitimate daughter. According to reports he had sex with a 16-year-old who was working for his family. The news didn't break until after he was dead but those close to the family said he treated her like the family she was to him. So yes his sex life became part of his legacy too. As for your off-topic reasoning regarding the 18th century; I wasn't born then so I don't know what the word on the street was then. Those who write the history tend to look back with forgiveness. Trump doesn't have major support - he has white nationalist support. Some polls indicate he's the only president who hasn't received above 50% approval rating. So major support is an exaggeration. So while you seem to want to reduce this to casual sex - it's more than that. It's about sexual abuse especially of minors and fathering children as result of those relationships. No matter what color of your skin - that is frowned on in every culture and ethnic group.

@Delano This is a perfect example of how black women are no longer waiting for anyone to advocate for them but them. I was recently invited to cover a similar gathering of black women fine artists - and the founder who set up a Art workspace here in the Atlanta Metro. Through the non-profit, TILA Studios, 10 artist fellows got the opportunity to show at Art Basel this year - and with the financial support of the email marketing company, MailChimp. Following in the steps of Mary McLeod Bethune ; we, black women, in the arts are now forming networking clubs for and by us.

@Troy , please tell me you are making a facetious statement here - Please tell me you do know what illegitimate means within this context ...🙄 @Delano I rest my case as it relates to the previous thread. So much for being a leader when you can't even handle your own family business.