@D.E. Eliot Not to be contrary, but I felt sorry for Loki, Thor's brother who was adopted. He felt he could never legitimately be worthy of the throne or his adopted father's love. Loki had so much animosity for his brother that it allowed him to be the perfect villain. Except when he realized his love for his brother. I do understand your point. The best antagonist is the photo negative of the protagonist . This way the antagonist is able to trip up the protagonist because she knows her counterpart's weaknesses.. This causes the protagonist to step up her game and defeat the antagonist because in reality the only true battle is the one we are in with ourselves. Awesome observation. I haven't seen the movie, yet but they pretty much follow the same script. *** I forgot to add - that I'm referring to "Loki" in the film not the comics - I don't read the comics.

@Delano Ok

@Delano of course not. It's an explanation of the nature of theories. Gone tomorrow, here today. Get better instrumentation and back again. That's what a theory is - it's not a force of nature, it's a hypothesis that may have facts surrounding it but it is still a theory. LIKE I WROTE... Now shall I define theory for you - so we'll be on the same page?

@Troy, not a clue. But I know I pull information out of my butt, so to speak. and I know where to use words that I've never heard of before until I need to use them. But I just don't know. Maybe, I'll sleep on it.

@Cynique I don't think I did... I think my browser has a glitch. I'm going to sign in again

@Troy I just reread this on my phone messages and I had to come back to say, I get it now. You seem to acknowledge the metaphysical realm - you just don't mix it with science facts that produce the same results for anyone who test it. Is that correct?

@Delano Ignorance would mean, I don't read or study these concepts. You do realize I was an electrical engineering major in high school, right? When you have an academic foundation like the one I was afforded at Brooklyn Tech - it doesn't all just disappear. The interest remains. I've continued to study physics theories even though I've long since left school. I may not throw around physicists names here - but it doesn't mean I'm not aware of whom you are referring to. I'm just not a fanboy of the physicists. They are people with ideas- nothing more nothing less. So let me also share that biophysics of consciousness is a hobby of mine... this way you won't argue a point about me from ignorance. Now, have you heard of the big bounce theory? It's contrary to the big bang theory. There's more evidence supporting the latter. however even the theoretical physicists who actually study this stuff for a living, agree they are theories. @TroyI could have sworn our Keynote was Alumni Lou Ferrigno I don't remember Arno Penzias but I will look him up in our year book...

@Cynique now see this is similar to what Sheldrake talks about with his morphic resonance theory. What if I did pick up on your thoughts and it was you who spoke to me while I slept... There's no way to test it. However, the fact that there was an occurrence ( and I don't believe in coincidences) there's more going on in nature than we really know. Maybe we shouldn't put it in the science category because there's no instrument to "test" it. Maybe this is what people speak of when they say keep an "open mind" There are people I shut down and shut out immediately. I believe stupid is contagious, Yet, I have no proof . Doesn't matter to me though, I shut out people who prove to be stupid. I especially don't listen to talk radio because I don't want to tune into that frequency. You are wise, so my mind is open to sharing your perspective and learning from your experiences. So maybe I can actually "hear" you. Maybe I tune into frequency such as yours and others who I believe I can learn from. Maybe I can hear people like you all the time even when you're thinking.

@Delano both are theories - not law so I put those two theories in the metaphysical category such as Aether, String, Multi-dimensions etc. ...There is no proof just experiences - which can't be proven. And I'm ok with that. also that's flat out dumb on his part. If something can be proven there's no need for faith.

What is science? "Just as importantly, science is also a process of discovery that allows us to link isolated facts into coherent and comprehensive understandings of the natural world." https://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/whatisscience_01

@Delano , yes that's what was revealed in this conversation - we've all been indoctrinated one way or another...and some of us were able to shake it off like @Cynique The rest of us are stuck namely you, me and @Pioneer1. If we don't shake it off we will remain stuck.

I’ve used paper bags to set and curl my hair. That doesn’t mean paper bags are its intended design and incorporated in its daily use. Setting my hair with paper bags is my practice and possibly the practice of other women. However, a paper bag was designed as a disposable container. Yet its properties allow us to find other uses... The days of the week, months were not a religious discovery or creation. If no one ever assigned a label to it or decided its uses; nothing would change because the moon comes up at night and the sun rises in the morning - and its positioning to the earth changes. In our early human existence, pagans observed the moon phases and suns cycles for natural events - irrigation, gestation, birth, harvesting. reaping, sowing, etc. This was even before any mythology was created. Before there was mythology there was observation, some Africans threw in counting based on the moon phases and they came up with a base 7 mathematics. Today we call it science, but the other wiser species and animals simply live within it - all this activity was going on 100s of thousands of years before priests installed political systems and put themselves at the top of the food chain. This was before they tricked people into believing natural occurrences were controlled by a god or gods. So returning to Pioneer’s crude statement about African science vs western science and its relationship to turd and pizza - It's akin to sheldrake's quip about some observers (scientists) building further observations based on the unknown (first cause). Now an interesting dynamic to this conversation for me was the fact that each of us were told to think a certain way and each of us brought this thinking to the discussion and it’s those beliefs that shut down our ability to create a new use from nature's properties. Once again discourse has cast its spell on us. I think it has our entire community spellbound

@Cynique actually my mind was changed...Not about religion or science but my approach to the discussion. I didn't even think I was subconsciously considering this discussion until I got a message from the universe about it this morning. For me, this has been one of our most important discussions. It has taught me the difference between use, practice and properties. As usual we all come from different angles in the discussion and expect to convince the other we're right but - It appears we are all blindfolded touching an elephant and doing our best to describe what we feel through our biases. So, what's different about this topic? I really don't know but it shed light for me. The message from the universe was this: "When someone tells what something is for or how to do something - your mind begins to shut down on other applications -" Yep that's what the universe told me this morning. The message woke me up and I wrote the following:

@zaji reading some of these comments about peer review reminds me of my original comment about religion. that it requires obedience. It's like scientists are being shunned for not obeying. Even if they find evidence the alleged constant is in question.

@Cynique This is where I would like to be too. Unfortunately, I fail at every day. Thank goodness for tomorrows.

@Delano, I'm not sure what you mean by "numeric value of most calendars" - if you're referring to dating conventions ,however, I will say "kind of". This is based on the fact western civilization is only at 2018 years...whereas civilization has been here far longer AND the calendar year is made up of 12 MOON-THS. The 12 months are based on roman politics - since they had to determine when taxes were to be paid. It was initially 10 months - i.e. DEC-ember (dec being the numeral prefix for10) also the months and days of of the week are named for roman /greek god/esses . @Cynique also raises a great point of note that we still recognize the seasons as did the monk who came up with current calendar era. - The christian monk couldn't ignore the very Pagan belief of the science of nature. In any event, the assumption that using the current dating conventions means christianity is wedded to science is absurd. Even NASA steers clear of BC/AD

OMG!!! That's it! That's why I reached for the duct tape! Pioneer's statement lacks context! "I USED TO believe the knowledge was just information and facts... unless that information and facts comes with a proper understanding then it's still not knowing." Thank you, @Cynique you've cleared up the mystery! "knowledge is the basis of understanding" but you have to do the work. You can't just slap a fact up in this forum and think you're going to get a sticker! Nope , not gonna happen LOL...

@Pioneer1 the only thing Mel was wrong about was dignifying your half-witted response. I happened to be writing when I saw your bc/ad as being part of science. My head was about to explode because that was the furthest thing from truth. Saying AD/BC is used in science is about as bright as saying English is a scientific language because the universal language is for scientific studies is English. None of it has anything to do with Christianity - it's a damn standard! The only way scientists can keep tract of their discoveries is by using standards. Is the demarcation of the Gregorian calendar determined by the birth of jesus - KINDA -but only the ignorant would stop there. Is science governed by christianity -I guess if you're one of four people who believes the sun revolves around the earth.

@Delano I must agree with Del – science could be the new religion – especially if we’re to view religion as a sum of its parts and not necessarily its tenets. A little before I began working in broadcast journalism, I was reading scriptures. I remember saying I want to tell YOUR story like the disciples did in the bible. Long story short – a few weeks later I found myself sitting at the anchor desk of our local television station. The current weekend anchor and the news director set me up to do a demo reel. I got the news reporter job. I was already employed so it was part-time, one day a week – Sunday. I had NEVER even studied broadcast journalism. I was a writer who was curious and that’s it. My second news story (a package) was a Catholic church closing. The Roman Catholic Diocese of Wheeling–Charleston diocese was consolidating churches in a cost saving measure. I laughed out loud thinking THE ALL has a wonderful sense of humor. It was a story I didn’t want to do for two reasons – I despised Catholicism and I despised Catholicism. Still, it was my job that I asked for and I didn’t want to add to the parishioners’ pain. To this day – I believe it was my best story ever…and I really sucked at broadcast news reporting in the beginning. But in interviewing the congregants, learning the history of the church and what it meant to those people -allowed me to lose the hate – and look at this religion through their eyes. I learned the people, their love for each other and the Supernatural was the religion …Some men made up some shit and told folks to worship their ideas but, in the end, religion is its believers - So yes, science could be the new religion because all it needs are strong believers that the answers they seek will come if they exercise faith. @Delano "The AD first meant “Anni Diocletiani” which related to the beginning of his reign at 284 AD. Diocletian’s laws, persecutions and punishments against the Christian community were severe. "

Ok - I look forward to your response.

@Delano Ok, you go first. This way I can get up to speed as to what we will accomplish.

@Pioneer1 I said Probably because I wasn't there. Only a fool would claim something as certain and not have witnessed it. But that's what you do isn't it? As I mentioned if the west were aligned with christianity we wouldn't be worshiping roman gods every day of the week and each month... Ain't nothing christian about polytheism. You did mention Jesus - man you don't even read what you write - so why I'd think you'd research something is beyond me. But Like I mentioned the first time -it was political decision and not jesus or "christ" . According to reports the monk still didn't get it right. But you wouldn't know what I'm talking about anyway. You're right about one thing. I usually don't waste my time arguing with you.

@Pioneer1because instead of assuming you might discover something new - For example, if that statement you made were accurate - then today wouldn't be Mars-Day, the god of war day... - If you researched a bit - you'd probably learn that the demarcation probably had to nothing to do with jesus and everything to do with politics ... further if you got really deep you'd know western science IS African Science - but you'd only know that if you took the time to research. click for an expanded map

@Pioneer1 You will have to go and research calendars- julian, gregorian , hebrew and coptic and whatever else is out there to determine how Dionysius Exiguus came up with "date" demarcation.