What is science? "Just as importantly, science is also a process of discovery that allows us to link isolated facts into coherent and comprehensive understandings of the natural world." https://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/whatisscience_01

@Delano , yes that's what was revealed in this conversation - we've all been indoctrinated one way or another...and some of us were able to shake it off like @Cynique The rest of us are stuck namely you, me and @Pioneer1. If we don't shake it off we will remain stuck.

I’ve used paper bags to set and curl my hair. That doesn’t mean paper bags are its intended design and incorporated in its daily use. Setting my hair with paper bags is my practice and possibly the practice of other women. However, a paper bag was designed as a disposable container. Yet its properties allow us to find other uses... The days of the week, months were not a religious discovery or creation. If no one ever assigned a label to it or decided its uses; nothing would change because the moon comes up at night and the sun rises in the morning - and its positioning to the earth changes. In our early human existence, pagans observed the moon phases and suns cycles for natural events - irrigation, gestation, birth, harvesting. reaping, sowing, etc. This was even before any mythology was created. Before there was mythology there was observation, some Africans threw in counting based on the moon phases and they came up with a base 7 mathematics. Today we call it science, but the other wiser species and animals simply live within it - all this activity was going on 100s of thousands of years before priests installed political systems and put themselves at the top of the food chain. This was before they tricked people into believing natural occurrences were controlled by a god or gods. So returning to Pioneer’s crude statement about African science vs western science and its relationship to turd and pizza - It's akin to sheldrake's quip about some observers (scientists) building further observations based on the unknown (first cause). Now an interesting dynamic to this conversation for me was the fact that each of us were told to think a certain way and each of us brought this thinking to the discussion and it’s those beliefs that shut down our ability to create a new use from nature's properties. Once again discourse has cast its spell on us. I think it has our entire community spellbound

@Cynique actually my mind was changed...Not about religion or science but my approach to the discussion. I didn't even think I was subconsciously considering this discussion until I got a message from the universe about it this morning. For me, this has been one of our most important discussions. It has taught me the difference between use, practice and properties. As usual we all come from different angles in the discussion and expect to convince the other we're right but - It appears we are all blindfolded touching an elephant and doing our best to describe what we feel through our biases. So, what's different about this topic? I really don't know but it shed light for me. The message from the universe was this: "When someone tells what something is for or how to do something - your mind begins to shut down on other applications -" Yep that's what the universe told me this morning. The message woke me up and I wrote the following:

@zaji reading some of these comments about peer review reminds me of my original comment about religion. that it requires obedience. It's like scientists are being shunned for not obeying. Even if they find evidence the alleged constant is in question.

@Cynique This is where I would like to be too. Unfortunately, I fail at every day. Thank goodness for tomorrows.

@Delano, I'm not sure what you mean by "numeric value of most calendars" - if you're referring to dating conventions ,however, I will say "kind of". This is based on the fact western civilization is only at 2018 years...whereas civilization has been here far longer AND the calendar year is made up of 12 MOON-THS. The 12 months are based on roman politics - since they had to determine when taxes were to be paid. It was initially 10 months - i.e. DEC-ember (dec being the numeral prefix for10) also the months and days of of the week are named for roman /greek god/esses . @Cynique also raises a great point of note that we still recognize the seasons as did the monk who came up with current calendar era. - The christian monk couldn't ignore the very Pagan belief of the science of nature. In any event, the assumption that using the current dating conventions means christianity is wedded to science is absurd. Even NASA steers clear of BC/AD

OMG!!! That's it! That's why I reached for the duct tape! Pioneer's statement lacks context! "I USED TO believe the knowledge was just information and facts... unless that information and facts comes with a proper understanding then it's still not knowing." Thank you, @Cynique you've cleared up the mystery! "knowledge is the basis of understanding" but you have to do the work. You can't just slap a fact up in this forum and think you're going to get a sticker! Nope , not gonna happen LOL...

@Pioneer1 the only thing Mel was wrong about was dignifying your half-witted response. I happened to be writing when I saw your bc/ad as being part of science. My head was about to explode because that was the furthest thing from truth. Saying AD/BC is used in science is about as bright as saying English is a scientific language because the universal language is for scientific studies is English. None of it has anything to do with Christianity - it's a damn standard! The only way scientists can keep tract of their discoveries is by using standards. Is the demarcation of the Gregorian calendar determined by the birth of jesus - KINDA -but only the ignorant would stop there. Is science governed by christianity -I guess if you're one of four people who believes the sun revolves around the earth.

@Delano I must agree with Del – science could be the new religion – especially if we’re to view religion as a sum of its parts and not necessarily its tenets. A little before I began working in broadcast journalism, I was reading scriptures. I remember saying I want to tell YOUR story like the disciples did in the bible. Long story short – a few weeks later I found myself sitting at the anchor desk of our local television station. The current weekend anchor and the news director set me up to do a demo reel. I got the news reporter job. I was already employed so it was part-time, one day a week – Sunday. I had NEVER even studied broadcast journalism. I was a writer who was curious and that’s it. My second news story (a package) was a Catholic church closing. The Roman Catholic Diocese of Wheeling–Charleston diocese was consolidating churches in a cost saving measure. I laughed out loud thinking THE ALL has a wonderful sense of humor. It was a story I didn’t want to do for two reasons – I despised Catholicism and I despised Catholicism. Still, it was my job that I asked for and I didn’t want to add to the parishioners’ pain. To this day – I believe it was my best story ever…and I really sucked at broadcast news reporting in the beginning. But in interviewing the congregants, learning the history of the church and what it meant to those people -allowed me to lose the hate – and look at this religion through their eyes. I learned the people, their love for each other and the Supernatural was the religion …Some men made up some shit and told folks to worship their ideas but, in the end, religion is its believers - So yes, science could be the new religion because all it needs are strong believers that the answers they seek will come if they exercise faith. @Delano "The AD first meant “Anni Diocletiani” which related to the beginning of his reign at 284 AD. Diocletian’s laws, persecutions and punishments against the Christian community were severe. "

Ok - I look forward to your response.

@Delano Ok, you go first. This way I can get up to speed as to what we will accomplish.

@Pioneer1 I said Probably because I wasn't there. Only a fool would claim something as certain and not have witnessed it. But that's what you do isn't it? As I mentioned if the west were aligned with christianity we wouldn't be worshiping roman gods every day of the week and each month... Ain't nothing christian about polytheism. You did mention Jesus - man you don't even read what you write - so why I'd think you'd research something is beyond me. But Like I mentioned the first time -it was political decision and not jesus or "christ" . According to reports the monk still didn't get it right. But you wouldn't know what I'm talking about anyway. You're right about one thing. I usually don't waste my time arguing with you.

@Pioneer1because instead of assuming you might discover something new - For example, if that statement you made were accurate - then today wouldn't be Mars-Day, the god of war day... - If you researched a bit - you'd probably learn that the demarcation probably had to nothing to do with jesus and everything to do with politics ... further if you got really deep you'd know western science IS African Science - but you'd only know that if you took the time to research. click for an expanded map

@Pioneer1 You will have to go and research calendars- julian, gregorian , hebrew and coptic and whatever else is out there to determine how Dionysius Exiguus came up with "date" demarcation.

@Delano I already mentioned I'm not talking about practitioners. Whatever a priest does in his private life does not change the tenets of religion. S/he may be changed by it but it doesn't change the religion. In fact, this is why excommunication is a thing. If one doesn't adhere or obey the tenets - they can't participate. Science is a study and can be tested. Religion is a belief and even if it could be tested obedience is still required. Or @Pioneer1 that can be Before Common Era / Common Era or Current Era AND "Astronomical year numbering is based on AD/CE year numbering, but follows normal decimal integer numbering more strictly." Other science disciplines also use this dating.

@Delano I attended St. John's University, where there is a Vincentian mission. I didn't find out my philosophy books were censored until my oldest daughter went to college and took the same philosophy class! I still have my Socrates to Satre text book and guess what's missing? The allegory of the cave LOL! Anyway, I'm not talking about clergy or scientists and their individual pursuits. I'm referring to the differences between religion and science. We have CERN where they are smashing atoms - "Its business is fundamental physics, finding out what the Universe is made of and how it works." Today, Pluto is no longer a planet . However- alterations aside, there hasn't been any updates to the quran , or scriptures. Religion requires obedience. You can think and discuss it until the cows come home; but you either follow its tenets or you don't.

IMHO, No. Science has not become the new religion. Science requires a query, observation, contemplation, analysis, etc. Religion requires obedience.

@Troy You've made somewhat of a qualified statement, here. But It's as if you'd like to refute "banning or censorship" based on the information we supply to you. To avoid confirmation bias, it's best to look for several sources of your own. For example, one of several sources I used was the link in the video itself to arrive at the censorship conclusion. @zaji was gracious enough to even provide you with her arc of thinking on how she arrived at her conclusion of censorship. But that doesn't support your stated belief that "It doesn't seem like it would be something TED would ban" So in answer to your question, yes, I know it to be the case based on evidence I've seen. I think that @Delano, @zaji know too. So, maybe if you find something different it will make for an eye-opening even fascinating discussion.

@Pioneer1 Huh?

Yes and no. We'd have leverage if we stop spending and borrowing. Also if we chose not to work for corporations but instead grew and produce raw materials, assembled products and sell wholesale to large corporations. Becoming producers would allow us leverage. We'd absolutely have to function as a monolith to make that happen. As far as wealth is concerned, however, we don't have leverage. We spend a lot of money but we own next to nothing. Black wealth is near zero percent here in America. Less than 1 percent of Black-American families have a net worth of 1.4 million. According to an article I read, 98 percent of available land is owned by white families. So, if we were to grow our own food or raise cattle or dairy cows we wouldn't have enough land to allow our animals to graze or provide them enough water. So, monetarily, if we were a country - we'd be a poor country with a lot of debt. Democratic capitalism isn't working for black folks as a whole here in America or elsewhere . Aside: I've pulled this information before when looking at the state of black women. Here's a link to an article that shares a lot of the stats I've read in the past.

@Pioneer1 BAM!!! This is exactly what came to my mind when I watched the Science Delusion video. A lot of those "constants" are reinforced by the dogma of an unchanging god

@zaji , I'm sorry for the loss of your sister. <3 Yes, a loss of a loved one will close us up tightly! In fact, loss of love seems to get us tangled in veils of darkness I believe that's how lower vibrations work - it takes away our innocence, our connection to ALL - so we can't "see", "hear" but mostly "feel". I think that's another reason why non-attachment is so necessary but at the same time, It's difficult to let go loved ones.

@Delano you know I was all over that website this morning LOL! You probably won't believe I but I wrote about this before ever hearing about Sheldrake... my 3000 + word essay is called "God left the box, last night" and it talks about how science and religion attempt to have us believe in an unchanging god - so that we can forget our own true nature... I wrote and wrote but didn't finish it because I scared myself. I couldn;t figure out how I knew what I did without ever learning it... now I understand how I can know it. If one of us knows it we all know it.