Delano

Cynique you are an original. Happy Belated Birthday.

I am fascinated that beliefs override knowledge. Perhaps it is not possible to be truly objective. There are no external objects and and the world exists in the minds. Which is way something is painfully obvious to you, but I can't grasp the concept.

Troy you sound like a behaviorists. So people that overeat are just hungry.

I don't think it is possible to know what motivates an individual. People are pretty complex.

Troy - you are probably right, but then everyone is right.

I read one analysis that wad interesting. It basically said that America was going through a rebirth. And that it was at the crossroads

Yes I can post a chart, but mundane isn't my branch. I have been looking for analysis but haven't seen any thing interesting.

Interesting question, since the hour is in dispute.I have a book country horoscopes, it had a fee pages and different charts. I'll take a look at it after work. I'll also post a link by a mundane astrologer and his commentary.

I think the future is both mutable and we already know it. All of it just not consciously.

Troy - I am not certain why you would say belief and understanding it mutually exclusive. I used the Halliean program. Interpretation is the hard bit. Forecasting us even harder. If you could predict the future would you say it us impossible. Your experience or ability may not be the extent of the world. Forecasting is more difficult because there are lots if future charts to choose. In addition there are different techniques. One approach is using transits. You look at the aspects of where the planets are currently and compare it to the radix chart. The problem id that there are many transits that don't get activated. And it isn't easy to determine actual from potential. I am spending a bit more time forecasting. In a year or two I'll let you know how it went.

There's a study of psychic powers where they have a flashing light connected to an atoms movement. So that it randomly moves One of the subjects was able to predict the direction. The researchers were not certain whether the subject was predicting the future or influencing the future.

Pioneer - I have found that people disbelieve in astrology because they have not studied it. I would say that it is hard to understand something if you initially do not believe in it. The Merriam Webster definition: The art or practice of using omens or magical powers to foretell the future; unusual insight or intuitive perception. Astrology by definition and my experience is magic. Witches, wizards, pagans use magic in spell casting. Search planetary hours or spell casting even candle magic at its base uses astrology. I have specified that I am not discussing stage tricks. Any field will have incompetent people. You can utilize most things if you have faith that they work or believe someone's opinion who is more knowledgeable.

Cynique - Yes and more. It also includes high and low magic.

Waterstar - welcome. What stared me on this is there is a division amongst astrologers. You have those who are using astrology in psychological counselling and those who are predicted the futurespell making. The counselors want to turn into a respectable income generating profession. While the other camp who are magicians, embrace the magical side. There are two branches of astrology Hoary and Electional. Hoary involves answering a question based in when the client sits down. Electional is determining the best time to commence. Both of these are a form of magic. I currently do a form of hoary. Except I us a future chart unconsciously chosen by the querent. It generally is fairly accurate. Which makes me ask the following question. Does that mean that the querent knows how to pick the chart that answers there question. This raises so issues. First the person doesn't consciously now astrology. Yet the know where to go into the cosmic filing cabinet to pull out the answer. The can pull the file because they put it in there before the were born. Any act of divination is communing with the divine. However disbelief creates resistance.

Do you really believe that?

Troy you can doubt, but there is no way of knowing.

Cynique - I don't mean sleight of hand. Troy I agree with you. The following us my definition/equation. Magic = Divine = Yoga = Miracle. They are only cultural differences. To say that one id superior or more valid is like saying one language is better than another. Every philosophical, emotional, intuitive and mental structure is a belief system. Any symbolic language us a mirror of the time and the culture Language and numbers are symbols that are dependent in the user. Believers very crucial term. Cultural and ideology wars get played out by way if economics.

I Believe

Troy - I don't judge people. Another time I was taking the bus cross country. This business man sits next to be he is around 50 - 60. Here tell me while he was traveling he was in a small time and people were wife swapping. It was a regular bar. Pioneer I went home by myself.

At first I thought Troy wrote it, it is fascinating. I was having a drink in a bar. And the guy next to me starts chatting with me. Do I did his numerology. Then he starts telling me how he sleeps with his friends wife, and the husband encourages him. I listen non judgementally and respond. He days what I am saying makes sense. Then he tells me he wants to sleep with me. I decline, he persist a bit more. After a while I leave.

Very interesting.

Interesting

The women's movement, the civil rights movement, Ghandi's movement. Whenever the masses gather that is power. Which is why New York has enacted anti gathering laws. Unlike yourself they recognise the potential power of the masses.

I think you have a few issues. Power, values protest. You may not be able to change people's values but you can sanction inappropriate behaviour. Protest has been effective historically in giving voice to the masses. I don't think that will change unless protest cease. Though there are laws at least in New York that male it more difficult.

Well if you do let me know. I think it will be illuminating.