Pioneer1

Cynique

I'll leave that to hard-up women who don't mind teenie weenie impotent losers who try to compensate for this by never admitting they're wrong.

The only reason you're leaving it up to them is because you know that even men like THAT would still be out of your league....lol.

Just admit it.
You messed up BIG time by not paying your 78 year old "boy toy" enough attention on that vacation, lol.
If you had spent more time focusing on HIM than you did trying to keep up with what was happening on AALBC and what I was saying.....you two would still be together and he'd still be giving you rides to the grocery store.

 

You're who needs to stop, jack-off.

This statement makes NO sense, lol.

I think you're getting a little confused.
Maybe it's about time for you shoo those roaches away and hop in bed.

Go on, get yourself some sleep and you can tell us all about your sweet dreams in the morning.....lol.

Troy

What is an example of a code you think should be implemented?

A good code for AfroAmerican men to follow would be to not criticize eachother in public.
Do it in private and even then only after getting the FACTS straight about a particular incident.

Look at all these "beefs" that you see in the AfroAmerican community, especially between men in the entertainment industry.....most of it comes from people getting angry and violent about what they HEARD someone said about them or wanted to do to them.
But instead of going directly to the person in private (without an audience to instigate) to get to the bottom of things, the instead jump to conclusions and make plans to retaliate immediately....in part to save their reputation.
This leads to an escalation in conflict and often times ultimately to violence.

A code to demand all conflict between AfroAmerican males be handle ONLY AMONG OURSELVES and out of the media or public in general would be a good start.


 

Chev

Most of the relationships that I've seen that worked had a dominant person and submissive passive person. It could have even been a dominant female who was bossy and ran things with a passive male who just quietly sat back and give his input only every now and then; but as long as he kept his mouth shut and knew his place things were cool, lol.
Reminds me of Aunt Esther and Uncle Woody from Sandford and Son.

But over 75% of the time the dominant one is usually the man.
I think most woman are naturally passive but what's making a lot of problems is that this society is FORCING women to be more dominant and aggressive than they naturally are and it's not only making men feel uncomfortable and frustrated but even a most women don't find this role comfortable.

I'm of the belief that most AfroAmerican women aren't acting the way they REALLY want to act.
I think most AfroAmerican women who are independant and strong minded are that way because they are both taught and FORCED to be that way....not being able to rely on AfroAmerican men to shelter, protect, and provide for them.

I've seen the same AfroAmerican women who took pride in being independant and strong minded turn right around and take pride in being a stay at home wife and soccer mom as soon as she found a husband who was making enough money to take care of her so she didn't have to work, lol.

This society is engineering unnatural conditions among our people.

Chev

we are still very conditioned too, by negative influences and this is what is keeping us from knowing what to do about our sad condition

Ofcourse there are negative influences that seek to block information and truths from coming to AfroAmericans; but also the strong "culture of ignorance" in the AfroAmerican community is a major factor.

A lot of our people don't know how to help themselves or their community and what's even worse is a lot of them DON'T CARE OR WANT TO KNOW.
They are in "survival mode" and as long as they're getting the basics to survive another day, they could care less what happens next month let alone next generation.

I'm glad to see Africa coming together but until they learn how to be independant and abandon the Caucasian legal system and social/moral systems that were left over there after colonialism....they will continue to have problems.
In many African governments the officials still wear those "George Washington" wigs during their meetings as a left over from when the British had them under their thumb.


 

Troy

I didn't respond for two reasons:

1. I thought if I didn't respond you'd eventually forget about the question and move on, lol.

2. Although I believe man has been on this planet for not just millions or billions of years but actually TRILLIONS of years....I can't prove it. I can only go by the few sources I trust that state this. And since I know you wouldn't accept my sources anyway, I said why bother?

Cynique

and why you're a "jack-off" full of yourself.

I know seeing me "full of myself" is making you jealous.......

Because YOU want to be full of me too, lol.

  -You better stop now, because it'll only get rougher from here on.....lol.

He's speaking a lot of truth but I just can't get past Paul's demeanor.....the man is as "sweet" as cotton candy, lol.

One point of contention I have to make is as I observe what's been going on in the AfroAmerican community for nearly 50 years I have to question whether or not much of our behaviour can be attributed to slavery.

The condition of the AfroAmerican family today has little to nothing to do with slavery.
I think it's merely a case of African people ATTEMPTING to function in a Caucasian based society and for the most part failing.

Even if slavery had never existed, because of our very NATURE as African people just attempting to live in a society that was not designed BY us nor FOR us would still ultimately lead to disasterour consequences.
 

I don't know if the decisions made against Serena by the officials were racist, I don't know enough about tennis to make that judgement; but I DO believe this cartoon is racist.

Not just because of it's depiction of Serena, but because they replaced the TRUE image of Naomi (who is half African and half East Asian) with that of a blond Caucasian girl which was meant to INVOKE as well as PLAY ON certain racist stereotypes.

If they'd just put out the grotesque picture of Serena by herself having a fit, the agrument could have been made that it was NOT racist.
But when it's wedded to the picture of petite white girl who appears to be confused and innocent while someone telling her to LET Serena win....it was clearly meant to invoke feelings of resentment harbored in the hearts of many Caucasians who feel that Africans are too priviledged already.

16 minutes ago, Troy said:

 

It is a start   But  remember, Chevdove is married admitting you are wrong won't get you anywhere with her  

Man, go' on somewhere and STOP BLOCKIN'.......lol.

It ain't even like that now anyway....lol.
We've had too many political and religious conversations  so now she's n the FRIENDSHIP category (sorry Chev, lol)

Troy

Some Black people believe Black people should patronize Black businesses whenever they have can, some black people believe all Black businesses are subpar and never patronize them, while others look for the best deal regardless of the ownership.

What code should we adopt when it comes to creating and supporting our own businesses? How would we enforce compliance to any of the rules defined?

I haven't developed such a code myself, I'm just saying we NEED one.
Just promoting the idea.

But right off the top of my head I would say Black people should have the right to patronize any business they choose whether they're doing so for prices, quality, or just plain convenience.
The ONUS wouldn't be on the patron but on the BUSINESS.

From an early age part of the Code would be to teach Black males in both school and home at an early age to make sure that every thing you produce....at school, at work, in your own business is TOP QUALITY and make no excuses for not providing it.

It's not about punishing people, just giving them more options.

Elijah Muhammad said if you see a dirty glass that people are drinking out of you don't have to condemn the glass to get the people to stop.....just produce a CLEAN glass and put them next to eachother and most people will NATURALLY gravitate toward the cleaner glass.

You don't have to FORCE AfroAmericans to patronize their own businesses if we are making sure we offer SUPERIOR services and products to anyone else!

 

Chev

I am divided when I read this. I can absolutely understand, AfroAmerican males having a code, and obtaining morals for yourselves, but I dunno, leaving out the input of AfroAmerican woman while you make this code, could end up being probematic.

It's about balance.
We most certainly will consider and be heavily influenced by the AfroAmerican woman because men NEED women just like women NEED men, but we must put HER perspective in the PROPER perspective.
Especially when it comes to family and sexual matters.

We must know and understand that while there are exceptions, men and women tend to think differently and have a different understanding of their roles in family life and sexual relations and these differences must be acknowledged and respected.....not condemned or used to justify mistreatment.

Cynique

You're more like a dense black hole, full of yourself.

Speaking of black holes that need to be filled.......

NAAAAHH, I won't go there.....lol.

17 minutes ago, Chevdove said:

 

Guest Queen X, yes I agree. It made things look worse.

 

@Pioneer1 In my observation, I don't run across too many 'brothers' that attempt to tear down a brother in order to bond with a woman, in the same way that other kinds of men do. But Black men will do it though, just NOT in the same way that other men do. My experiences is that other men, will point out how Black men disrespect Black women, and yes, it is to 'get with the sista'... 

Oh, I'm sorry I misunderstood your statement!    (there you go Troy...I'm admitting I was wrong.....lol)

I thought you were talking about BLACK MEN who were running down OTHER Black men and hyping themselves just to get next to you.

Honestly, I'm a little bit surprised at this.
I mean I knew it was possible, but I didn't think most other races of men were bold enough to get in a Black woman's face and run down her own man like that.
Damn.


 

Chev

You see this statement you made here starts out as "The fact is..." and this is a problem because 'facts' are not based on any of us and our beliefs, but it is based on TRUTH, whether or not it really did happen or not. So, we can choose to believe in certain concepts or happenings or we can NOT believe, but that doesn't make it 'true or false' though. if certain historical subjects did really happen, and we choose not to believe, then the fact still stands that it 'really did happen'.

I agree totally.
Our "beliefs" have no bearing on what has or hasn't happened....nor do our interpretations.
 

I believe that if we, especially Black AfroAmericans choose to reject a lot of history about Black African oppression thousands of years ago, and the process of how we keep becoming suppressed under White Supremacy, and do not consider that there is a pattern here, of history repeating itself, then we will not be able to see solid solutions to become free from this wicked cycle that we continue to be caught up within.

I agree with this also.
Infact, on non-verbal IQ tests one of the main methods of measuring a person's intelligence is PATTERN RECOGNITION.
If you are intelligent enough to recognize PATTERNS and how they relate to your behavior or others, you can predict certain outcomes and either prepare for them OR modify the circumstances that may produce them!

One of the problems with our people is that they're WELL VERSED in history and scriptures yet with all that knowledge they STILL can't figure out how to keep the police from shooting their son down in the street or how to cure some autoimmune disease they contracted from the chemicals being put in the environment.....so what good is all this "knowledge" of history and religion?

When I was a kid in Detroit I used to sit at the Shrine of the Black Madonna bookstore and read for HOURS about ancient African history and the greatness of Mali and Kemet but when I came out with all that knowledge I was STILL unemployed and to drive out to the suburbs to and ask White people for jobs....lol.

We need to focus on the HERE AND NOW and learn how to improve our health, our wealth, and our community in a wholistic and practical way.

Chev

I don't know about you as a Black man, but I could not even make a count of how many times other men have told me and tried to convince me how useless Black men were in the attempt to try to win my affections.

I believe it because I know a lot of men who DO run down other men in order to hype themselves up.
Others....as you allude to.....criticize Black men because they think that's what most Black women WANT to hear so they'll verbally beat up on Black men as if THEY aren't guilty of what they're accusing other brothers of....lol.

When it comes to the promises of money and sex I don't think there IS a level too low for SOME people to stoop down to.

But to be honest, 
I've also wanted to impress women but instead of using the NEGATIVE route of running down other men  I used POSITIVITY in order to impress women.
I've done a lot of community work and naturally when I saw women I wanted to get involved with I would figure out ways to be with them.  However instead of running down other men or the men in their lives (brothers, fathers, boyfriends, ect...) by saying THEY weren't doing anything for the community.....I would just hype up myself and how I was helping the community by fighting injustice, feeding people, ect...as a way to impress them.

I don't feel guilty about it at all because I feel if you ARE doing good things and you brag about them it's NOT wrong because you're NOT lying.
Even if you're doing them to impress the opposite sex or for money.
I know a lot of people think that's wrong, but I don't because the actions weigh more than the intentions in my opinion.
 

Chev

You know what sis?

I apologize to you and to myself for breaking a rule that I usually practice in REAL life that I rarely practice on the internet but I should start practicing more.

I try not to argue with people or hold prolonged discussions of disagreement with people over things I CAN NOT PROVE....because we'd be going in circles back and forth for years rejecting the evidence we offer eachother.

The fact is....
Like I told Troy, neither of us as human beings KNOWS history or what happened beyond 1000 years ago.
Unless you are given a vision or taken back in time, you don't KNOW what happened you only BELIEVE what happened based on the evidence you've observed (writings, witness accounts, heiroglyphics, paintings, ect....) but you don't KNOW it because you weren't there to either experience or witness it.

I will still discuss aspects of religion with you, but I won't keep covering the same ground over and over again hoping that you will believe me or you hoping I will believe you because it's clearly fruitless.

If you want to believe Solomon was a Black man, and that the Bible is a book that's good for Black people....that's your right and I respect that.

Just for the record......

I WAS joking about Cynique sending me pictures.

She HAS NOT sent me any pictures of herself....nude...half dressed...with men...alone...or otherwise.


.....or atleast if she DID I haven't received them yet, lol.

Del

Actually I mispoke in my previous post so I deleted it.

To answer your question........
If we have a solid CODE among ourselves, we don't need a leader directing us and telling us what vision to follow because we as individuals would already know what was right and what we should do individually.

Delano  and Troy

AfroAmerican men gay or straight, tall or short, fat or skinny....all need to recognize that the only other demographic we have is EACHOTHER and we need to get on code.

It may take some time but it will work.

We need to start sticking together more than we do and stop letting people who are NOT AfroAmerican males give us our morals and tell us what's right and wrong and decide for OURSELVES what is correct and proper.

Troy

You and I are in the same position.

YOU believe in your sources that tell you that humanity is LESS than a billion years old.

I believe my sources that tell me that humanity is OVER a billion years old.


And guess what?
NEITHER one of us has been around long enough to verify which sources are correct so all we can do is pick and choose the sources we trust the most and HOPE it's correct.
 

You make a big deal out of people picking and choosing what they want to accept, but isn't that how the world has been working for THOUSANDS of years?
People choosing what they want to believe to suit their own interests?

You can believe what you want to believe but I'm fed up believing in Western archeologists who's stories CHANGE every damn generation about how long man has been on this planet, how old it is, and whether or not we were created or evolved.....NO MORE.

As far as I'm concerned they are LIARS and I'm not believing in the informatoin THEY present to us about history.

　



Del

Pioneer you have succeeded in convincing the forum that your thought process is unreasonable.

Well.....
I wouldn't call it a success, because it certainly wasn't my intention.....lol.

The devil made you do it huh...?

In YOUR case, that's known as SELF-CONTROL....lol.




That's not some "black Moses", that's a painting of a Moor.
I might end up changing that avatar again because I don't like how that picture presents itself.

Chev

This is an impossible statement to go any farther with you because, what you are saying is that, even though we as humans die off and leave writen works, it cannot be trusted as being authentic based on any 'measurable standard'.

No it can't.
Even COURTS are hesitant to believe human eye witnesses!
So why are we to believe that human record keeping is INFALLIBLE?

LOL this is unbelievable statement. You just stated that a group of scribes and scholars got together on your version of how the Talmud was eventually written, but cannot realize that would be the very process in the written conclusion of the end of the life of Moses!? 

?????
I didn't say that this DID NOT happen.
They actually DID do this!

I just said Moses wasn't the one doing it.

Your all over the place, and have no fixed dates from which to base anything on

Lol...I'm not all over the place.
I'm firm and consistent as far as history goes....don't put too much trust in ANY of it.
 

You need to provide some evidence that the author of the Songs of Solomon was not him. You are shooting in the dark.

Lol, I JUST showed you in Songs of Solomon chapter 1 it says:

"5 I am black, but comely, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, as the tents of Kedar, as the curtains of Solomon. "

The author speaks of the curtains OF Solomon.
How could this be Solomon speaking unless he's talking about himself in the second person?????
 

But if you want further evidence....here are more verses:

Song of Solomon 1:2
"Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth: for thy love is better than wine."

The author says let HIM kiss ME with HIS mouth.
If Solomon wrote this song as you claim are you saying he is asking that a MAN kiss him???

What about Song of Solomon 2:6
" His left hand is under my head, and his right hand doth embrace me."

Do you STILL believe Solomon wrote this???

Come on.
 

That would mean that Ezra was writing about something that happened over a thousand years prior!

Yes.
That's exactly what he did.

In Deuteronomy Chapter 34:10 the author of the Penateuch says:

"Since then, no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face, 11 who did all those signs and wonders the Lord sent him to do in Egypt—to Pharaoh and to all his officials and to his whole land. 12 For no one has ever shown the mighty power or performed the awesome deeds that Moses did in the sight of all Israel."

He says "since then"....meaning the author was presently speaking ABOUT the past.
Now although a date isn't set, obviously he's speaking of past events as he's compiling these scriptures.

It's also evidence that MOSES DID NOT WRITE THIS BOOK which is part of the Pentateuch, because it's talking about him and speaking from a LATER date!



 

What earlier documents? What earlier published documents could Ezra have possibly used that the man, Moses did or that the Egyptians did? Did Ezra use the Egyptian documents? Can you provide some kind of dated document that Ezra could have used? BTW, I think Ezra lived after the downfall of the NeoBabylonian empire.

Ezra lived in Babylon DURING and AFTER the fall of the Babylonian empire but WHILE it was controled by King Cyrus and the Persians.

And although I'm not exactly sure of ALL the documents he used, I'm sure he used many of the documents that the Babylonians themselves had for their own religion AS WELL AS the documents the Zoroastrians had.

Biblical scholars know full well that the "Flood myth" existed among other cultures like the Babylonians and Persians and these earlier stories were believed to be used in making the Pentateuch while in Babylon.
 

The Bible gives a detailed timeline of the kings over Israel and Jewry.

The Bible gives NO DATES.
The dates were given LATER ON after the so-called "events" took place and were for the most part guesses.
We don't KNOW Moses existed 1500 B.C....that's just a commonly accepted estimate.

Troy

Yes I understand.

The ONLY reasons you consider my statement crazy is because Western science or more specifically Caucasian Archeologists whom you have faith and trust in haven't confirmed it YET.

If......next year or in 15 years they came out and said that humanity  is TRILLIONS of years old, THEN you would believe.

I admit that I have no proof of MY beliefs about history....because it's HISTORY and nobody today was around to actually witness what happened to verify it, but YOU won't acknowledge the same and are dead SURE that everything these "getting drunk on the weekend" scientists tell you is the gospel truth beyond dispute....LOL.
 

6 minutes ago, Troy said:

 

Yes, because it is such a wildly inaccurate statement.  Why would I invest my time reading more?  Plus I don't know enough about the the subject you and CHevdove are talking about to participate in a meaningful way.

 

Do really believe that humans are billions are years old!?  I'm not going to debate facts with you, because you've demonstrated that facts don't mean anything when they conflict with the world view.

Here we go again......

Two AfroAmerican men fighting and arguing with eachother over what SOMEONE ELSE said or believes is the truth or the right thing, lol.

Man I hope you read the recent thread I wrote and not simply dismiss it as some rambling rant.

 

Actually it wasn't so much YOUR statement as much as DEL'S reaction that reminded me of what I was planning to do a thread about on this site for about a week now.
Especially after seeing how much that Bishop at Aretha Franklin's funeral was condemned by so many other people including other AfroAmerican men.

It's disturbing how almost every demographic seems to stick together more than AfroAmerican men do.

Something YOU know all too well and use to your advantage on a routine basis....lol.

The words are different and obviously have different meanings BUT.....one meaning can fit INSIDE the other while the other can't.

Just like the words FRUIT and APPLE are two different words but one definition can fit inside the other.


All Apples are Fruits but not all Fruits are Apples........some fruits are Pears and some are Bananas.

All Republics are Oligarchies but not all Oligarchies are Republics.....some Oligarchies are Theocracies and others are Plutocracies

Chev

You don't even believe scholars like the late Ivan Van Sertima?
 

Yes, I DO trust him...more than many others.

But you have to understand that when it comes to history you can't put too much trust in ANY human beings unless they were there to witness things themselves.
You just have to decide who is more trustworthy based on your past dealings with their work along with your own common sense.
 

can you offer a reference?

Probably, but not right now.

 

who then wrote the Pentatuch?

A number of scribes and scholars convened to put it together while the Jews were still in Babylon but I believe the project was spearheaded by a man named Ezra.
It was compiled from many earlier documents.

Moses CERTAINLY didn't write it because his own death and what happened afterwards was recorded in one of the books!



There is nothing that states the book was written by anyone other than Solomon. So if you don't believe that then, that is where the contention rest. There is no need to go beyond this point unless you can provide evidence that the author is who you say.

Lol...all you have to do is just READ the book to realize that it wasn't written by Solomon but by a WOMAN.
Just read it.
But you can also do online research on it's history as well.


 

Speaking of which, you do realize that Minister Louis Farrakhan admitted that the matriarch of this following is a White woman?

I'm not sure what you mean.
According to Nation of Islam theology the mother of Fard Muhammad was a Caucasian woman.
Is that what you're refering to?

Chev

You are too much! LOL. That is not what I meant! lol! What if another man did that to her in your presence?

You wouldn't be offended if she came and told you another man groped her? And, what if she was your wife?

Ofcourse I wouldn't like it in either scenario.
But that's just basic male jealousy and territorialism.

It's not a legal issue.
 

Now you've got me confused. Are you saying the term is correct to say 'Original man'? And, it is not correct to say 'Original mankind?'

In another thread you used the term 'ORGINAL BLACK POPULATION'; how is this different from saying 'ORiginal mankind'?

Both Original Man and Original Black Population are correct terms.

But because "mankind" means a KIND of man or a COPY of a man, it shouldn't be used along with "original" because mankind is NOT original.
.
The term "mankind" should only be used when refering to Caucasians and no other race.
 

Yes, in terms of 'the Original Population of people that lived in Greek lands' many of the Greeks were Black. Terms like 'DORIAN GREEKS', 'MINOAN GREEKS', 'CARIAN GREEKS', 'DANAANS', 'THEBAN GREEKS', ... and so many other terms define the ORIGINAL POPULATIONS in those Isles and mainlands of the European continent. The Ionian Greeks though and many others were definitely White Greeks. Some of the Greek pottery reveals these people, but I am not an Art History expert to be able to respond completely from that point-of-view. HOMER time period and the script on this wise also reveals this earlier presence too.

OK
I understand what you're saying now.....and I think I agree.

It's probably a matter of semantics because I believe the ORIGINAL PEOPLE OF THAT LAND that is now called "Greece" was indeed Black.....but the actual GREEKS themselves were not.

Just like the original inhabitants of THE LAND CALLED ARABIA were Black....while the actual Arabs were not.

In other words the first people of that area WERE Black, but we have to be careful using the current name of the Caucasian peoples who currently occupy the land and applying THAT name to the original peoples of that land who probably went by a different name.

Although I must admit.....not being the sharpest tool in the shed, lol....I'm STILL not quite understanding where you're coming from on "ethnic women" being used to bring down the old Black kingdoms.
 

Del
 

The US is a nominal republic and practical oligarchy. That doesn't mean all republics are oligarchies.

You're right that the United States is a PRACTICAL oligarchy.
And I said NEARLY all PRACTICAL Republics are Oligarchies.....simply to leave the possibility open that a Republic that is NOT an Oligarchy does indeed exist....although I haven't thought of one.

 

If you had said the US functions like an oligarchy even though it's a republic. You would have made a subtle distinction.

I could STILL say that and not even contradict myself because both ideas agree.

It functions like an Oligarchy because it IS an Oligarchy...and a Republic at the same time because the Oligarchs are just elected to rule the masses.

It's as clear as day to me.
Perhaps you and Troy have run out of ways to convince me otherwise....lol.