Pioneer1

All Let me show you how INTUITION and PERCEPTION works in detecting racism in ways you'd never imagine. When I lived in Atlanta I had a White friend and co-worker from Arizona who had severe marriage problems. His wife abused drugs and according to him cheated on him frequently and openly. According to him she wasn't raised rich but was very spoiled and thought the world revolved around her and she was also immature. They separated and even after all of that HE continued to pay the rent for her apartment, her car note, and even bought her gifts for holidays! When we'd question why he was so devoted and gave her so much money, he constantly played the religious card about him being a family man who upheld his duties and loving his wife and hoping she'd get better.....ect. Now I saw her a couple times because she'd come up to the job looking crazy. She wasn't a bad looking woman and had a very curvy body. Because of this, I suspected....deep down....that he was paying all of her bills and keeping her up and off the street, NOT so much because he actually loved her but more to make sure a Black man with money didn't approach her and either pimp her (she was a drug addict) or just try to get with her. A few other Black men at work kind of said the same thing, but we didn't mention it to him out of respect. Months of this went by, of him complaining about the behavior of this woman and how crazier and crazier she was getting despite the fact that he was still taking care of her. Then one day while he was complaining......a slip! He said, "I don't want her out there on the streets man. She's my wife and you know. This is the ATL and.....she's a WHITE GIRL....so somebody may try to approach her ya know" So he finally revealed the truth! This is Atlanta (a Black city) and she's a WHITE GIRL! That's why he's spending nearly all of his check supporting her and her drug problem rather than risk her ending up on the street. Because it's a Black city and she's a "White girl". And by inference meaning she may end up with a Black person! I knew all the time that this was the REAL reason he did what he did and some other brothers knew it too. But HOW did I know this? He didn't say it until 7 or 8 months later! So how did I know that was his REAL reason?????? INTUITION ! BEING PERCEPTIVE ! Just KNOWING racism and how it operates and makes people do what they do! You get to know people's REAL intentions regardless of what they CLAIM or SAY. But if you go around with your head up your ass never recognizing or suspecting racism ofcourse you'll never notice it. When you keep your antenna up and learn to read between the lines you can spot it lightyears ahead even when seemingly no signs are apparent. And this is just one of THOUSANDS of examples of race based behavior that you almost have to figure out INTUTITIVELY until more evidence reveals itself. But like I said earlier..... Those of our women who are so IN LOVE with that White Jesus (White male prototype) they won't notice this! Because they aren't looking! They are too busy looking at the BLACK MAN as their enemy. So all of the racism done subtly and even some done openly by White men goes right past them.

You are both assuming what Mel and Cynique think and instead of asking their opinion you speak on their behalf. Which is amazingly arrogant. And potentially wrong. I said PERHAPS.....lol.

Del The concept of self definition is lost on you, Pioneer You should learn the difference between "self definition" and "delusion". One is based on logic and reason, the other isn't.

Cynique Any black leader could've done this. Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Julian Bond. If Jesse or Al COULD have done it...then why DIDN'T they? I like Al Sharpton, but I think we all know he's a bit of an opportunist. Does anyone here REALLY believe that if Al could have pulled off an event that big he would have passed up such an opportunity? Come on, stop being silly.....lol. Just hating on Farrakhan for no legitimate reason what so ever. Julian Who?????? Mel Well, I can't disagree with you about YOUR reality. If you don't recognize a push by conservative White women to masculinize their boys and men...... The Republican favorite cheerleader Sara Palin was a clear example of this. .....there's little I can say to convince you. Del I'm not diminishing gay Black men. I think homosexuality.....like violence....is a fact of nature and both have their roles. Again, my position is that the PROMOTION of homosexuality/effeminacy among Black men is just as destructive as the PROMOTION of violence and criminality among Black men. And again, BOTH are genocidal.....one is passive and the other active. Promoting ganster rap encourages Black men to kill themselves. Promoting homosexual behavior among Black men reduces the amount of Black men willing to have sex with Black women...which reduces the population. Promoting effeminate behavior among Black men reduces the desire of Black women to have sex with Black men.....which also reduces the population. Promoting all three will eventually lead to the same end result of reducing the Black population. 　 So my lack of discrimination or lower prejudices enabled me to be the only person to answer Mel's question , "Name two Black Men that have helped women? " To the satisfaction of both Mel and Cynique Either that OR...... In a thread that started off with a noble critique but DEVOLVED into a defacto battle between the sexes.....those two women didn't even see you as part of the opposition, lol. Perhaps instead of placing you with the male side, they subconsciouly saw you as a neutral party.

Cynique Are you implying that because whites didn't think the picture was racist, that they are racist? I'm not. There's any number of reasons they didn't find it racist in the survey: 1. First and foremost, they COULD BE LYING....and know it's racist but choose not to admit it. It's not unusual for Whites do deny the racism they observe or practice you know. 2. They could not be racist but just feel there's nothing wrong with the picture feeling in their own mind this is how a Black woman SHOULD look or WANTS to look. My whole problem with this discussion was that it was critical of a black woman by black men who think she should present herself in accordance with their standards. See....and THAT'S the problem. You're so caught up in checking Black men and not letting US get away with insulting another "sista" that you failed to see the insult and slight WHITE MEN who photographed her or did her make-up MAY have commited against her. Even as you admit how insidious and subtle racism can be, you STILL refuse to believe that the White people of time may have purposely taken an unflattering picture of a Black woman in order to ridicule her! Too often Black women are so caught up in trading licks with Black men and making sure WE don't get away with anything they totally ignore the wrongs of White men and women in their immediate environment. Troy No, I don't feel vindicated. All I was interested in doing was helping people see another perspective. They may disagree with, or not understand, the perspective, but they are no longer ignorant of it. Thinking, opening minded, people can't unsee what they have been shown, their awareness has been raised. I think it worked and now people will probably be more perceptive for more subtle forms of discrimination and insult as a result of this. That can only be a GOOD thing. But this just goes to show you how naive and unperceptive so many of our people are in the first place. For too many, they just go through life with their guards constantly down noticing nothing. Once it's pointed out to them THEN they see a pattern. I'm willing to bet that if you were to do a survey on whether or not Gangster Rap was promoted to demean and demonize Black men you'd yield suprisingly similar results with a large portion of our people denying it and feeling it's just an innocent form of expression totally uninfluenced by subtle racist manipulation. and yes, in America, you CAN find racism in virtually anything, but it is not because we want to. It is simply part and parcel of our culture. From our Whitehouse to our to our local school boards; From our currency to our history books. Standing ovation! They say if you go around looking for problems you'll find them. But that means the problems already existed anyway just waiting to grow until they eventually too big to be ignored. Just like an inspector looks for unsanitary practices and check them early on to maintain the health of the community, perhaps we may be better off if we actually DID go around looking for racism in everything first before we give it the "all clear" sign. People tend to complain that Black folks are always crying racism anyway, so why disappoint them....lol. Mel So while women may not like Ms. Davis look in this photo they don't think it's racist. Whatever. Well wait a minute... Don't forget about the 40% who DO think it's racist! 40% is a substantial number. Trump is in office right NOW with less than 40% of the eligible voters actually voting for him.....so don't discount 40%. "Racism" is a social construct and unless it denies someone of rights, it becomes nuanced and has to be added to other acts to feel its effect. Racism is more than just a social construct. It's a RELIGION. It's a PSYCHOLOGICAL STATE with a huge influence on the laws, economics, and other important affairs in this society. You know, that is a good point!! KNOW it???? Why, if it were a GOOD point she wouldn't even RECOGNIZE it......lol.

Cynique i make becoming a cougar an item on my bucket list Well..... You can just keep me OUT of your cougarish plans until you renounce your heathenous un-patriotic beliefs! Lol, sleeping with YOU would be like sleeping with Tokyo Rose! Keep The Pioneer out of your fantasies......until......

Cynique To me, America is a country, not a person! It is a nation founded by men who You might as well STOP right there....... First you said that America is a COUNTRY and not a person, but then you go on to contradict yourself in the very next sentence by describing how it was founded by PEOPLE! This cognitive dissonant way of thinking is at the heart of your problem. You can't seem to separate America as a whole from SOME of it's negative elements. The same nation that enslaved Blacks and oppressed women is also the SAME nation that fought a war to end chattel race-based slavery and lift up it's Black citizens to be among the world's wealthiest and most educated. It's also been at the forefront of women's rights. All within a span of 200 years this nation has liberated the world's historically oppressed groups and elevated their social and economic status considerably while much older nations are stilled mired in millenia old traditions of slavery, racism, homophobia, and sexism. Where is it written that i can't love my friends while hating where they live? Because: 1. YOU live in the same place your friends live 2. YOU AND YOUR FRIENDS are in part responsible for the conditions in that place That's like you laying on the couch in dirty sweat pants with a half eaten bag of nachos in your lap pointing your finger at your roomates talking about: "Yall'z place is sho' is filthy!" ((crunch crunch)) "Look at all these roaches and shit crawling around." ((crunch smack crunch crunch))

Mel It doesn't. Or at least in my memory most who exhibited this behavior line the walls of society's jails and/or are food for the earth. I agree that the reckless violence and aggression you see some young Black men exhibiting is selfdestructive however...... I notice that for the past 30 years or so conservative White women have been ENCOURAGING White men to be more masculine, aggressive, and take back their manhood. They even push it among little boys with the Dr. Laura's of the world. But I don't see Black females conservatives pushing the same thing. I see to many pushing the slave narrative of, "keep your mouth shut, head down, and do what you're told and you'll be successful" to a lot of Black boys. So a lot of White conservative and Republican women are ENOURAGING masculinity among their boys, while a lot of Black conservative and even liberal women seem to be encouraging conformity among THEIR boys.

Damn this conversation is fluid.......lol. Convictions. When I was younger and religious I had convictions, convinced that there were absolute rights and wrongs. Not as much now. Like my signature suggests..... I'll argue what I believe at the moment, but change tommorow if different facts are presented to me that truly change my beliefs or raise doubts.....and not even be ashamed. Principles. My principles are truth and success in accomplishing my objectives. Someone mentioned learning from older women....... That's how I learned about sex, older girls/women. Girls my age were looking for the pretty boys and didn't care too much for me, so the older women took me in....lol. And speaking of older, getting older has made me better at sex because I don't get quite as excited and it makes me last longer. Before 30, you'd be lucky if you could get 20 good minutes out of me.....lol. I didn't care too much for the missionary position, it seems to be harder on my back. I used to but women up under a pillow to make it easier for them AND me when in that position. Now I agree it's more intimate because you can tongue kiss and stare at eachother, but you can do that before and after....lol. | honestly think that how well a woman likes it depends on how she's made, where her vagina sits on her body. Most white women's vaginas are further up front so sex is easier when you're facing a woman like that, while most Black women's vaginas are further back and tucked away in the butt (how many Black women have you seen with camel-toes????) where it's easier to get to from behind....lol. Quite naturally White "missionaries" who wanted to enforce THEIR way of having sex would force other men and women to have sex the way THEY like to have it....WHEN they had it. Don't forget that during the time of colonialism and missions out of Europe, most Europeans believed that even if you were married sex in ANY position was wrong unless it was done with the expressed purpose of reproduction.

Cynique Why do you keep asking these silly questions? My distaste for this country has nothing to do with my fondness for my friends. i am able to separate the person from the place, even if you apparently cannot. But your friends and family MAKE UP America. How can you declare your distaste and dislike for a nation that is made up of countless numbers of your friends and family members that you like and love? You said you never loved this country because it was full of bigotry and bullshit. Even with your friends and family near the bottom and Barack and Michelle Obama near the top you ignore all of them in your rage.....I guess they aren't part of this "America" you don't like, lol. Why not pinpoint your anger and and focus your dissatisfaction on those who are actually causing the problem instead of painting ALL of America (and all Americans) with the same broad brush?

Troy Do you feel a bit vindicated.....like I do....that the largest segment feels the same way we do? I have to admit that I'm a bit suprised that so many Black women in the survey felt this way. Most of those I know in real life actually felt about the photo the same way Cynique and Mel felt. When I brought it up many became a bit defiant and took the position of how could I as a man tell a sista what type of make-up she should wear.

Cynique As opposed to you who can't gush enough adoration for Farrakhan. Not adoration but ADMIRATION certainly. I think he is one of the greatest Black leaders of our time. Who else do you know can call 2 million Black men together in one location? 　 at some point all 3 of them lived together in the same house Sounds like my type of guy.......lol. Troy Now I know full well many Black are full of self-hate, but I really did not appreciate how Black women feel about Black men. Now Cynique and Mel do not represent all Black women and I'm sure I can find Black women who disagree with them. Still, I hope their opinion is not widespread. I hope my daughters do not grow to feel this way... It will last as long as we are under the system of White supremacy. Women.....not just Black women but women of all races.....are taught to love and respect White men unconditionally in this society. It starts in the church with a picture of a White Jesus with blonde hair and blue eyes that little girls of color are introduced to in childhood. They grow up believing that THAT is the perfect man whom they should love and trust in. ...and it just continues from there. There is a subconscious love for White men and White authority that has been instilled in them since childhood and the only antidote is Black males achieving enough wealth and power in society that it COMPELLS Black women to respect them. This is why the drug dealer, pimp, and hustler often have a much better relationship with Black women than the so-called "good" brothers do. They don't rely on White standards of respect and civility.....they rely on NATURE'S. Del I didn't consider they could be gay. Until it was suggested that they and me by extension could be gay. It's not relevant. What is interesting is that liking art makes one gay. We'll all rappers are gay because they are poets. Come on man, almost anyone over 30 almost automatically associates men who perform ballet with being gay.....and justifiably so. Just like Cynique wondered if Viola's male hairstylist was gay. Liking ballet, poetry, art, ect....doesn't necessarily make one gay. But some professions are just dominated by women and gay men. Not sure why so many male hair stylists are gay (or even if they are), but I suspect that most male ballet dancers are gay because it would be harder for a straight man to squeeze and grab on so many women all day without getting an erection. We can't have that constantly happening on stage....lol. Stupidity Brawn and hyper violence and sexuality. Thats keeping it real for some folks. How's that working for us? Actually, encouraging Black men to act feminine and gay is just as detrimental to the Black community as encouraging them to be violent and hypermasculine. One is passive genocide and the other is active genocide.

Cynique Pioneer1 NO, I DON'T LOVE THIS COUNTRY. AND DON'T THINK I EVER HAVE. IT'S THE LAND OF BIGOTRY AND BULLSHIT. ANYMORE QUESTIONS Pioneer is an American. Do you love him? What about Troy, Delano, Mel, even yourself??? We're ALL Americans up in here. You mean you don't have ANY bit of love in your heart for us?

......see THIS is probably why people get confused about your sexuality, lol. Nah LOL, much respect for the good that these 2 brothers have done for the community. Just 2 more examples of Black men who've helped Black women. Actually I hadn't even heard of them before you mentioned them. ....the more you know. Cynique I give you Minister Farrakhan who's helped countless Black women rise up like rods and stand before the world like shining jewels......but you reject HIM like spoiled milk and call him all types of names. But 2 gay Black men who help women dance and sing for White folks? Oh you LOOOOVE them don't you. But I'm not angry, I understand....((smile)) I understand why so many Black women promote the feminine Black man over the masculine one. And because I understand, I know everything's gonna be alright.....((smile))

Delano In another thread you said: Why not post the story in the new thread as well since that is what started the conversation. And it will give context to your statement. You said if some dude made a move on you it would end in violence. Why can't you just say you are not interested. And why couldn't you tell that guy you weren't interested. Sounds like the Fight or flight response. Which is the result of a perceived threat. Why do you feel threatened by homosexuality? Is cutting to close to the bone? https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/4423-i-met-an-inventor-at-barnes-nobles-bookstore/ First, I thought about posting the story here but it seemed a little akward because I'd have to post the story as well as our responses to it. Perhaps Troy is able to do it, but for me it would be too "sloppy" as I don't have the tools to edit the posts properly. Secondly..... There's a simple reason I didn't tell my Asian friend that I wasn't interested in him, HE DIDN'T ASK....lol. Perhaps YOU consider someone who constantly seeks your conversation and loves talking to you as being "in love" with you...I don't. I've had a couple women in love (atleast they claimed they were) with me before and how they behaved towards me were totally different from his. Again, as I've said several times.....I detected absolutely nothing gay or even effeminate about him what so ever. I have to admit that his constantly craving my conversation was a little off putting, but other than that I didn't detect any sensual desires coming from him. As a man, I know how insulted I'd be if a cat I was chilling with all of a sudden broke out and said, "You KNOW I ain't gay right.....so don't think I like you. But uhhh....are you in love with me??". I'd be like WTF....lol. So why would I do that to someone else? As far as a dude making a move on me becoming violent.............. I've had men hit on me before, but it didn't end in violence because it didn't become physical. If a man just gave me the eye, or tried to start some crazy-talk with me it's annoying but it wouldn't make me become violent. However if a man were to try to grab my hand or feel on me THAT would bring an almost involuntary retaliatory response. Part of it would be a natural reflex out of disgust, but also as a deterent to prevent them from going further. Homosexuality itself isn't threatening. I recognize it as a fact of nature. I don't completely understand it.....like I don't completely understand how a woman feels. But I accept it. However men are men and tend to be aggressive with their object of attraction whether they are heterosexual OR homosexual and just like women have to be (or should be) CLEAR to men that they aren't interested so that men don't take it further, a man should be the same with with a gay man.

Troy Now look at that..... You started a thread DEFENDING Black women. You were calling Time magazine to the carpet on how they were unfairly depicting Black women. And instead of applauding you for your efforts, you ended up getting fricasseed in your own juices. I saw it coming.... I could have stayed out, but I knew you were gonna be by yourself trying to hold it down for Black men so I felt compelled to contribute. .....but I saw it coming. I've seen it time and time again. Like a woman who is abused by her no-good boyfriend but takes out her frustrations on her good male friend, cussing HIM out and calling HIM a dog as he tries to console her.... Often times the intelligent, well meaning, successful Black man is targeted for insult, ridicule, and scorn by Black women who are angry and frustrated at the behavior of the dusty foul criminal minded negroes who have ruined their lives. Now that doesn't necessarily apply to these two ladies because I believe they're too smart to get caught up with a some dusty abusive thug. However I DO believe that like most Black women, they are angry and frustrated in the Black man's inability to adequately provide for and protect them collectively and that's what you really hear when you read between the lines. Infact, Mel made it a little more plain in her latest post but I was able to discern it all through out the thread. When I realized this, I had to CATCH myself from further irritating an already raw and open wound. Cynique and Mel Don't worry, everything's gonna be alright. You can dry your eyes now. Your cries have been heard, and help will be coming soon.

At the heart of this "victimization" is Western culture and it's Judeo-Christian religious foundation that continues to re-enforce the belief that these groups who are victimized somehow deserve it or are divinely ordained to be subjegated. Blacks are oppressed out of the belief that they are descend from Ham whose descendants were cursed to be slaves. Women are oppressed out of the belief that they are responsible for the original sin and caused the downfall of man and cursed to be under the thumbs of their husbands. Homosexuals are oppressed out of the belief that the Old Testemant condemns homosexual activity and threatens it with death. The poor are oppressed out of MANY beliefs. Among them, because slavery was permitted in the Old Testament. The New Testament advises slaves to obey their masters. Others believe that people are poor because of bad karma. Others point to the scripture in which Jesus says the poor you will always have. These discriminatory beliefs are ingrained in the heart of Western society and whether they claim to be born again Christians or atheists, most Westerners....especially White Westerners adhere to these beliefs subconsciously. Most of the legal codes and social rules in Western civilization whether it be the United States, Canada, Europe, Russia, or even Australia....hail from these original beliefs and more.

Well what do you call a man that hangs out with another man who is in love with him. But that man is ignorant to that fact, Pioneer. If the man who is in love is named Delano.....then I'd probably call that man Pioneer, lol. And if Pioneer is ignorant to that fact, perhaps he should be KEPT that way by Delano keeping his feelings to himself....lol.

Cynique Lol, do you LOVE your country? Delano Citizens don't have to fight for civil rights. Sure they do. Just because you're a citizens doesn't automatically mean you'll receive or keep your rights. Prisoners and ex-convicts are U.S. citizens. But in most states they don't have the right to vote or own a gun.

Cynique So a Black man who holds a REASONABLE and BALANCED point of view and sees the good in America instead of all the negative is just an OREO to you? Instead of pinpointing your frustrations on the guilty party, you'd rather condemn the entire nation? Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater......damn. 　 Troy The argument that American is the best place in the world for Black folks to live is nonsensical. Why do we say that at least we are no longer enslaved we should be happy. Do you understand the point @Pioneer1? I didn't say America is the BEST place in the world for Blacks. I haven't been all over the world to make that comparison and declaration. But I've talked to enough people from other countries, those from here who have VISITED other countries, as well as my own research on how many Black folks live in other nations to come to the conclusion that this is certainly ONE of the best places in terms of economic power, freedom to express ourselves, access to education, ect... Again, not the BEST....but certainly one of them. My point is we should stop blaming America for being racist when we ARE America collectively and start analyzing the problem for what it is. The problem isn't America itself, but a handful (or perhaps more) of hard core racists IN America who are causing most of the problems. And it will take OTHER AMERICANS (us and decent Whites) to put an end to it. 　 　 Del Pioneer how many countries have you lived in other than the USA? Lol.... Why do you ask?

Cynique instead of providing the name of one man whose efforts uplifted black women collectively to a level even with white women. Obviously, it's arguable as to whether this question has been answered. Ahhh..tut...tut...tut! She didn't ASK for an example of a man who uplifted Black women collectively to the level of White women! She said.....and I quote: "Please name one black man who has done anything to help black women build their collective economic and social standing here in the U.S. " And later asked again: "If you know of any other black man - wait, I'll make it easy ANY MAN who has championed the rights of black women and actually helped us inch up higher at last place - please share. I really want to know because I might have missed his work" She made a VERY SPECIFIC REQUEST. The requirements were: 1. He be a Black man 2. He helped Black women build thier collective (group) economic and social standing in the United States 3. Even if they remain in last place, he'd have to have atleast helped them move an inch higher We can argue all day long over how much an "inch higher" means....... I mean, ((arms folded)) if I wanted to be anal I could include MYSELF in that number as I've personally helped many Black women improve themselves, as well as TROY who has helped Black female authors through this website and being married to a Black woman has helped HER. Maybe Delano can say the same if he's helped Black women when he was in the United States. But since she means collectively help move them an "inch higher", she most likely means a reasonable amount of progress that we can actually see and compare on a national scale. And ALL of the examples I and Troy have mentioned fit that criteria. Getting thousands of Black women off drugs, giving them jobs, structure, education, ect....all improves their social status and economic status. By the way, both Minister Farrakhan and Booker T. Washington helped MANY Black women....not just 1 or 2. I provided Ava Muhammad as just one example of the THOUSANDS of Black women he has helped improve socially and economically. The same thing with Mr. Washington. He hired MANY Black women as teachers and admitted MANY Black females as students.....thus helping to improve and uplift the lives of Black women COLLECTIVELY during their generation and for many generations to come as a result of the education they received at the Tuskegee Institute. The same can be said of LouOverture and Garvey. Again, it has become obvious to me that no matter how many examples I provide or how many of the goals she demands are met....the examples will continue to be ignored and the GOAL POSTS will continue to be moved. ((shakes head)) You ladies really should be ashamed of ......deeply reflect on your behavior in this thread.

Del Well for one thing, you have to first prove that the dude was even GAY in the first place before you have him all "inlove" with me and trying to groom me with conversation....lol. But since it seems rather "fuzzy" to you and I don't want to clutter up Troy's thread about this young man's invention anymore, let me go over this sloooooowwwly......in another thread: https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/4495-bisexuality-and-sexual-confusion-101/

This thread was started to continue the conversation I was having with Delano in another thread but obviously anyone interested can comment. The context of this thread can be found in here: https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/4423-i-met-an-inventor-at-barnes-nobles-bookstore/ 1) First, there are 4 MAIN sexual orientation types: 1. Heterosexual -those attracted to the opposite sex 2. Homosexual -those attracted to the same sex 3. Bisexual -those attracted to both the same and opposite sex 4. Asexual -those who aren't attracted to either. Got me? 2. Sexual orientation is NOT fluid. It's stationary....hardwired pretty much from birth With me so far? 3. You said that sexuality is fluid and that set off an alarm with me. Because if a person is bisexual it may appear to be fluid TO THEM because THEIR sexuality contantly switches back and forth between the sexes. e.i... A bisexual man may THINK he's straight and have a wife or girlfiend, but because he also likes men he may one day meet a man who he falls in love with and leaves the woman to get with this man. If he's ignorant on bi-sexuality, he may think he TURNED gay. Or he may THINK he's gay and have a boyfriend, but one day run into a woman who is so captivating that she pulls him in and he starts kicking it with her. Again, if he's ignorant on the laws of bi-sexuality, he may think he TURNED straight. But this is not fluidity, this is a bisexual acting out his natural impulses because he likes BOTH sexes although he may have been ignorant of his orientation. With me so far? I'm not asking if you agree or not....just...do you UNDERSTAND what I'm saying so far? Now...... 4. As I said, a person who is bisexual and ignorant of this fact may BELIEVE that sexuality is fluid because of HIS/HER own experiences....and there by PROJECT that same belief on others. Which is why I told YOU that if YOU are bisexual...not saying you are or not...but IF you are then ofcourse it may seem to you that a man can "sway" another man by conversation or other means. If you've done it or had it happen to you you believe it can happen to any man. However, as I've said sexuality is pretty much set and hardwired. This is why no matter how good the conversation or how much trust is achieved, no man will entice a STRAIGHT man to turn gay any more than he will entice a GAY man to turn straight. It took me many years to learn this lesson during my silly attempts to "turn" lesbian women I found attractive straight.....lol. My overall point is, most straight people and solidly homosexual people know and understand this. But I doubt that most BISEXUALS do....since THEIR sexuality appears fluid as their attraction bounces back and forth between men and women they may assume and project their reality on others.

I didn't even know there were 197 Black owned book stores IN America, let alone closing down! Infact there are some on that list in the Detroit area that I didn't even know existed....lol. You can add another one to that list as the Truth Book store in Northland (Southfield Michigan) has closed down. I had left Detroit by the time it opened up, but I heard it was a regular hang-out for Pan Africanists and is sorely missed by the handful of Black nationalists in an otherwise middleclass Black community. 　 I agree with CD and have been saying for years that we need an AfroAmerican bookstore chain similar to Barnes and Noble or Chapters (Canada). I've probably possessed enough books in my life to start my own book store. But I've given away much of them to make room, I'm not a horder. Perhaps I should have kept them and sold them. You get tired of going over cat's homes only to see the SAME book you gave them 3 years ago sitting in the SAME spot you saw them put it when you handed it to them.....lol.

Mel So Obama did more for Black women than any Black man who ever lived? ((shakes head)) Most people have observed that Black Americans collectively have become economically WORSE off during the Obama Administration. The stock market crash in '07 and the housing crisis in '08 erased much of the wealth gains achieved by Blacks in the 90s and early 2000s. But I guess it only affected Black men, while Black women continued to rise. All these Black women I've seen and dealt with over the past 4 or 5 years who told me they had degrees and good professional jobs teaching and working for the government but are now homeless and frequenting food banks were probably just men in drag pretending to be women just to throw people off the trail of how well Black women have been doing under Obama these past 8 years. ....yeah...that's it! Since you didn't want to accept Farrakhan or Booker T. Washington as examples of Black men who lifted the social and economic status of Black women then I won't even get into Marcus Garvey and other examples. Who cares about the nearly 1 million Black women that Toussaint Louverture helped liberate from chattle slavery during the Haitian Revolution? How would something as miniscule as THAT compare to a mulatto offering poor Black women the opportunity to get more free check-ups? 　 Cynique Well hell, if you wanted to talk about Black men helping INDIVIDUAL Black women you don't have to go to Serena and Venus, you can stay right here in this thread with Beyonce. Beyonce's father helped her and the rest of the women of Destiny's Child achieve fame. Mathew Knowles But I thought Mel was asking for leaders on a more national scale. But now that I see she really DOESN'T want examples regardless as to how many I provide, I'm just about ready to leave it alone........ Who are these "2 women" you keep talking about? There is only one woman I mentioned by name.