Pioneer1

I hate the way their allegiance to the Republican party forces otherwise intelligent Black Republicans to make straight up fools out of themselves in public. We saw the same thing with Colin Powel and how he presented erroneous information before the entire world to support the U.S. going to war in Iraq. And to add further insult, when no WMDs were found and the war turned into a quagmire many Republicans even tried to lay all the blame on HIM and his presentation instead of Bush! Carson is a world famous doctor, he should atleast have the good sense not to belittle himself and smear his reputation by supporting a racist sexist clown that even most White Republicans are distancing themselves from now.

Cynique If it's unfair for me to accuse you of not considering the possibility of lead poisoning as being a factor, then it's equally unfair for you to paint my argument as if I'm saying it's the ONLY factor. If you go back in this thread I said at the very beginning: "Now I'm not saying these are the ONLY causes of the violence in the ghetto but I believe they are the MAIN causes. At the very lease there can no acceptable solution to the violence in America that doesn't include removing the old lead pipes from not only the water systems but every household's plumbing as well as all of the old paint from buildings similar to what was done with asbestos" I also said: "Another problem is Western civilization itself. This may seem a little far fetched, but after studying history I believe Western civilization has run it's course and people are tired of it. The family values and social ethics that have governed Western societies are no longer holding weight with most people as they begin to pull away from Christianity and other organized religions. So peopel are coming up with their own morals and ethical codes and other people are just abandoning ALL forms of morality together and doing whatever they want because there is nobody or real system "in charge" to establish absolute rights or wrongs " Ofcourse there are other problems contributing to the violence and dysfunction in the Black community besides lead in the water, but I believe much of it is peripheral stemming FROM the psychiatric effects of lead and mercury poisoning. Again, not all....but much if not most. So I guess it's a matter of which of these problems we chose to lay weight and focus on. And also since the effects of lead poisoning can't be reversed what is your remedy for this? Number one, I believe they CAN be reversed with proper treatment both holistic and conventional. But the first step as stated in the above quote from my earlier post is to remove the source of the poisioning by replacing lead contaminated pipes and halting vaccinations with serum that contains heavy metals. Then we can look at other forms of treatment to remove the lead from the body and heal the brain and nervous system. I believe there's a solution to EVERY problem and a cure for EVERY disease. We may not know it at this point in time...but it exists. Finally, what if you are wrong? Then what? You will have to find something else to become fixated on. If I'm wrong, then I'll fix-ATE on fix-ING the actual problem and discard my previous theory...lol. CD There isn't a 3 against 1, everyone has said that lead is a part of it. I even said I understand where you are coming from, but my primary focus is on the fact that there are more kids passing in school and doing well than there are failing. THIS IS FACT and Troy posted the evidence. While the evidence shows the disparity of success there are more passing than failing. Well if we all agree on the same problems, then as I've said to Cynique I suppose it's more of a matter of where we're deciding to place our weight on and which problems deserves the most immediate attention. Black leaders both at the top and at the grass roots level have been holding discussion after discussion and rally after rally trying to fix broken families, get Black children to read more, get Black youth to stay out of gangs, and reduce the violence rate in the Black community for 30 or 40 years now. Has it worked for the most part? I believe if we focus on the lead and other toxins in the environment, most of those other problems like deliquency, broken families, violence, ect....will fade. Not necessarily "away" but they will become relatively mild compared to what they are today. As far as a higher graduation than failing rate meaning more "success" than failure. When they start passing out DECENT PAYING JOBS with those diplomas upon graduation, then I may consider it a sign of success. Until then, can we really say that the diploma a young Black male gets today is even worth the paper it's printed on? Success for most young men is wealth, women, and peace of mind. ....and none of those are guranteed by a diploma or even a typical 4 year degree today. The only thing a highschool diploma does is pave the way for college and a lifetime of student loan debt.

If there's a decline in the participation on THIS particular forum I'd say it's because this forum tends to be too "serious" and intellectual for most AfroAmerican youth today. As I've said before..... As the AfroAmerican intellectual capacity begins to decline (for whatever reason you want to attribute) you should expect for discussions on serious issues to decline while discussions (if you want to call them that) on foolishness, gossip, personal beefs and feuds to increase. What else can you expect for people with stunted mental maturity? Often times "smart" Black people get so tired of the silliness and beefing that goes on in many Black forums that they leave and joing White discussion forums where they must either hide their identity or face constant racial harassment and having their points of view misunderstood by other members. If you believe this is a problem....as I do...then we need to come up with a solution for it. It's not going to get better unless the problem is addressed for what it is: The decline of Black American intellectualism. The first step is admitting that their is an intellectual crisis in the Black American community where too much "dumb shit" is being promoted among the youth and not enough intellectualism and critical thinking.

Cynique You're starting to do what CD has been doing which is focusing on the well performing exceptions to say that things aren't really "that bad". Which is like a person with stage 2 breast cancer focusing on how nice their teeth are or how good their digestive system is while ignoring a serious and GROWING problem that should be addressed before it's too late. I too believe in miracles and have had them in my life, and as long as I live on THIS planet I also believe in sitting down and trying to solve my problems as well. The Divine do their part and human beings must also do their part. Again, what if I'm right? Then what?

Part of the problem is society in general is starting to become to complicated or too complex for the average person to navigate and it's frustating the hell out of so many people. Anytime you can't just throw a piece of garbage away.... You don't have just ONE garbage anymore. You have 3 or 4 containers and you have to stop and try to figure out which one the paper goes in and which one the plastic goes in and you have some asshole standing off to the side actually frowing at you if you put the wrong thing in the wrong container as if YOU (not Exxon) are responsible for polluting the planet....lol. A lot of people are just saying "fuck it" and throwing trash on the ground or out the window again. As if it wasn't stressful enough to drive (especially while Black) now they've added "bike lanes" all over the place so you have to constantly be on the look out for people on bikes and veer into the opposite lane just to provide a safe enough space not to hit them by accident. Yeah, people are frustrated as society becomes more complicated but they aren't seeing much benefit from the added worry....so this causes a lot of people to question is it all really worth it. As far as intelligent out spoken Black men being targeted. I can't say that you're wrong...but I don't want to say you're right either because to concede to that would almost make the situation seem hopeless.

Cynique I've already conceded several times that I wasn't around back then to "know" who lived longer than who. But neither the anecdotes from older Black folks from the South who've told me how much longer Black folks lived and how healthier they were NOR the "stats" and other forms of propaganda put out by Western medicine tooting their own horn about how much progress they've made PROVES it one way or the other as far as I'm concerned. My standards of proof are based on experience and observation so I guess I'll KNOW the truth as time goes by if God allows me to live long enough and keeps me mentally sharp enough to adequately compare time periods. All Well atleast Troy is entertaining the possibility that the problem could be more bio-chemical than behavioral or parental. Either that or he feels sorry for me in this 3 against one argument...lol. I just have one question for all of you.....what if I'm right? Suppose, just suppose the United Nations or some outside group came in and examined Black children from coast to coast and concluded that for the most part they contained much higher concentrations of lead and mercury in their systems than White children and this has been a major cause in hyper aggressiveness as well poor academic performance. Then what? After knowing without a doubt that they're suffering from a real physical/chemical problem that is affecting their thinking and behavior and most likely the behavior of their parents before them, what should the next step be? To continue to blame the parents and tell them to get off their ass and do their job? To blame rap music? Tell young people to get married and stay married for life, especially if they have children? Tell the children to "try harder" in school to make up for their mental deficiency? Or should we have a nation wide demand that the infrastructure be repaird and every child (and adult for that matter) be treated to rid their bodies of these toxins? IF I were right and we knew beyond doubt that most Black children suffered from various levels of heavy metal toxicity affecting thier intellectual and emotional development, which option would be the most generally effective in solving the problem of not only violence but broken homes and poor academic performance in light of such a major finding?

It's called Globalism..... It's not just New York, it's taking place in urban areas all over the United States. Wealthy people are trying to take back the urban core of American cities because they're running out of land. If you look at the "norm" that exists outside the United States....today as well as in the past it is the POOR who live outside of the inner city. They tend to live in the townships, villages, and rural communities. It's the wealthy who live in the inner cities where the amenities are. But the United States for the past 60 years or so became the opposite and the wealthy people started moving out into the suburbs after WWII. Partially to get away from Black people and partially because of the fear of nuclear war. I'm sure they figured that the further away they got form "ground zero" which would be the core of most urban areas....the better they'd fair during an attack. If you notice, most of the gentrification started AFTER the collapse of the Soviet Union when they felt that the threat of a nuclear attack was over. So now the wealthy want their cities back and they're tearing down the projects, patching up the ghettoes, and shipping the poor and working class...not too far out...but out into the boroughs and inner ring suburbs so that they're close enough to commute to the city and work for them but not close enough to socialize or send their children to the same schools. No more middle class or working class. Just the educated wealthy elite inhabiting the cosmopolitican cities, and the TRAINED (educated just enough to do the job) WORKING (not on welfare or any other type of benefit that may prevent them from having to slave to eat) poor that have been regulated to the outskirts and boondocks. In my opinion the social planners are making a huge mistake because this structure is typical of that of a third world country...and third world societies are notoriously unstable as the poor constantly get fed up and seek to overthrow the system. One of the reasons the United States HAS been so stable since the 60s was because the poor and working class were given some dignity. You take that away and force them to either bust their ass working 2 jobs just to afford to SHARE a roach infested apartment or end up out in the street begging...and you're asking for skyrocketing crime and revolutions every 20 years or so. As Troy alluded to, a much wiser plan would be to build affordable housin in the city for working class people so that people earning a modest salary can still afford to support themselves and their families. Most people don't ask for much anyway. It's not like everyone is demanding masions with guest houses or trying to keep up with what billionaires have and demanding the same. Most people just want a clean place free of roaches or bedbugs, make sure the plumbing and lighting is working, and some cable and wifi where they can sit down and relax at the end of the day of work. Over 90% of the population would be happy with that and could care less how much more the wealthy had.

Cynique brought up an interesting point concerining "suicide by cop". I think a lot of these cop killings probably were instigated by Black men who were so tired of their conditions that they wanted to die but didn't want to bear the full responsiblity of "offing" themselves. I don't know but something tells me that the Alfred Olango case in San Diego where the brother pulled an e-cigarette and pointed it at an armed cop as if it were a gun may have been another case of this. Many young Black men today are just tired. They're tired of living in a society where they are surrounded by wealth and success but they don't see a way THEY can achieve it and they feel that no one is "teaching" them how to achieve it so they go out and try to get it on their own and the system punishes them for it. They're tired of trying to make it in a society that is just too complex and unforgiving and many are just giving up.

Cynique Now listen...... We're not going to keep going back and forth over this. I just told you about how Black people in Africa are dying by the millions from just AIDS alone, not to mention Ebola and other "unheard of" diseases that didn't appear until Europeans came. So if you want to ignore THAT and focus on the flu or diarrhea as the leading killer of Black folks until modern medicine came along...you go right ahead. If black youths are motivated to acquire "the bling", then they really are stupid if they think they will obtain it by committing petty crimes and drive-by shootings I think Black young men are motivated by NATURE. Young men by NATURE desire women, control over their own lives, respect from other men as well as the larger community, and a share of the contemporary wealth of what ever era they are living in. This cuts across all racial and national lines. Young men also tend to be aggressive by nature, especially when it comes to trying to attain the objects of their desire...and this too cuts across all racial and national lines. The problem is this society is an artificially contructed one where not only is nature and natural inclinations in young men suppressed.....they're often PUNISHED as some how "wrong" or criminal. So where in the past it was considered noble and honorable for a man to have sex with several women, be good at fighting, and amass large wealth by any means he could think of......now it's often considered criminal and immoral and the larger society condemns him for it. So perhaps what you see as petty crimes and violence is actually young men trying to pursue normal natural desires in an ABnormal UNnatural artificial society. Troy Now if you believe there are at no inherent natural disadvantage in intellectual ability and potential, what else can explain the differences? Neurological poisioning from chronic heavy metal exposure. Cleanse the lead and mercury out of the systems of every child and you will see the test scores rise and the violent crime plummet. CD You speak of the solution being better parenting, as if the parents know any more than their children do.....lol The parents are a product of the SAME dysfunctional incompetent educational system that their children have inherited so how can people who don't know any better themselves teach others? You DO have a valid point about many parents hating their children and not wanting them. A lot of children were a "mistake" on the part of their parents. I don't think any human being is a mistake as I believe we all were intended to be here, but I think as far as planning goes.....yes....many if these children were "mistakes" and not really wanted. Children can tell intuitively when an adult doesn't really care about them even if it's a parent who gives them a lot of gifts....they just "know". Infact, a lot of parents are actually USING thier children to collect checks from the government through disability and special needs claims....that's the only value they see in them. So do you really expect parents who are cold and callus to pony up and do the right thing and supervise their children when THEY THEMSELVES need supervision? I don't. And do you really WANT Black parents to be more hands on and take more responsibility in teaching Black children how to be better students in an educational system that teaches them how worthless they are and trains them how to be mindless drones for corporate America? Because that's what this educational system teaches them. I bet you learned more PRACTICAL KNOWLEDGE that you could actually use in real life during the few years you were in the military than all the years you spent as a student K through college. We need our OWN academic systems that teach Black children how to do something for themselves. A system that offers benefit to themselves and their progeny instead of teaching them how to be well educated slaves to help build another man's world while theirs deteriorates.

I don't believe White people are a monolith...... Sure they tend to be MORE united than Black people because unlike most Black people who've been taught since the Civil Right's era to DISTRUST Western Civilization....most Whites are still pretty much taught to REVERE Western Civilization (the morals, laws, social customs, ect....); but there are a lot of independant minded White people who are just as fed up and disappointed and even down right angry with the system as Blacks, Native Americans, and others. Many others are also very angry about the injustices they see being done to Black people and other ethnic groups and want to help. However one of the problems is a lot of Black people who try publicly speak on the frustrations of Black America tend to be either: 1. Very passionate and angry but not very articulate. They don't come across to the greater population as "intelligent" while expressing themselves. And these type of people White folk usually automatically tune out. or 2. Very intelligent and articulate but too "soft", too reserved, and because they're too careful not offend White people so they don't really tell it "like it is". And although most Whites will take time to listen to this type, it doesn't give them an accurate understanding of the problem or how the community really feels about an issue because the so-called speaker isn't bold enough or accurate enough. We need Black people who are not just intelligent enough and bold enough but ARTICULATE enough to adequately express the concerns of Black America to those outside of our community effectively. Quannell....from what I've seen of his interviews and street confrontations seem to be able to do BOTH. One of the reasons Malcolm X was so effective and respected among Blacks AND Whites (even if they didn't like him they had to respect his intellectual sharpness), was because he was not only accurate and intelligent and articulate but he managed to do it in a bold and uncompromising fashion that adequately expressed the frustrations of Black America at that time. As far as re-considering America....... This is MY nation. I'm not leaving it....period....except for vacation, lol. It's not their LOCATION that Black folks need to change, it's their MENTALITY. It doesn't matter where our people go, as long as they maintain the same "slave" like mentality of constantly looking to White people to feed them, protect them, and educate them.....they're going to continue to be taken advantage of and victimized. Look at continental Africa or Haiti and how so many Black folks on their OWN land with no one to answer to but eachother are STILL trapped in poverty and debt. Why? Because they look to Western governments to provide money and food and other resources for their support instead of building their own system on the land God provided. Many of these nations have been "technically" out from under colonial rule for decades and STILL maintain the legal system and social customs of the same Europeans who colonized, them instead of trying to design a new better one for themselves. Black people occupy positions in just about every level in the legal and political system from the police on the street all the way up to the White House. If the legal or political system isn't working for us, WE can change it for force the change through. If the educational system of financial system isn't working for us, WE can change it and force it through. Nothing is keeping us from taking our destiny in our own hands as a group besides pure mental laziness.

That's Quanell X. He always goes hard. He was actually quite tame in THAT interview; I've seen some others where he really mopped up his opponents.

Cynique I wasn't around to witness what Africans were allegedly dying of centuries ago and I'm not too quick to trust Western historians and what they write about pre-colonial Africa, however I think we both can agree that SINCE colonialism and the introduction of Western medicine (vaccines included) Africans have been dying of AIDS, ebola, and other "mystery" illnesses by the MILLIONS. So what good were they? BTW, it is my understanding the Smallpox and Typhoid didn't exist in Africa until Europeans came and brought them. So perhaps the best thing they should have done was stay away instead of bringing vaccines to prevent a problem that didn't exist in the first place. We didn't need a vaccine for malaria either. The condition known as Sickle cell anemia among so many AfroAmericans today is actually natures own way of preventing malaria among West Africans. Sometimes you have to generalize based on limited information in order to save your own life. You may not have the time nor luxury to sit around waiting on all the facts to come in before making a decision as to what to believe. Suppose you were sitting on the couch by the living room window and you heard some arguing between people quickly followed by 3 or 4 loud bangs outside. Would you sit there jotting down a list of what those noises could be? Would you go outside and stand on the porch to get a "better observation"? If you saw a strange man you didn't know coming at you with a crazy look in his eye and licking his lips, would you stand around observing him waiting for more information to comin before you made a decision on what to do? I'm sure you didn't make it on this planet 80 something years if you hadn't made a few quick generalizations based on a limited observation of what you saw. Again, I'd much rather trust the information I've gotten from the few people I know who've actually LIVED and EXPERIENCED the past, rather than a bunch of skewed facts typed up by people who have a vested interest in selling Western medicine to the public.....despite the fact that by their own admission the medication ALONE that's being prescribed is killing more people today than auto accidents, suicides, and homicides combined. CD I don't know how good Black kids are doing academically, I'm sure you're in a better position than me to know that. But I can look at the high unemployment rate, high incarceration rate, and all around lack of common sense that is so pervasive among Black youth in America and all the stats about their academic performance becomes irrelevant. If you want to save your children.....and others...you and other Black educators should sit down and come up with a curriculum designed specifically to educated Black youth. Especially Black boys. Because the current educational system is failing them big time. Cynique mentioned motivation.... Like most boys, Black boys are motivated by the promise of money, women, and success in this world as they get older. And if they look around in society and don't see a way to achieve these things nor do they see how the educational programs being pushed on them will help them in achieving these things then they will RIGHTLY begin to question the value of a so-called "good" education. The purpose of school should be to train children how to be successful adults. The problem is the CURRENT idea of success (corporate job, wife, house) doesn't give with what most Black boys' idea of success (money, plenty of sex, protection from enemies, nice clothes, good music, freedom from incarceration or police harassment, ect..) is. Black children and especially Black boys need a program tailored for THEM and THEIR wants/needs.

Cynique Well if Black people weren't healthier 75 years ago then I stand corrected. Obviously I wasn't around at that time so I'm going by what MOST of the older Black people who come from the South have told me concerning Black people living longer. I don't go by stats promoted by Western science because I believe much of it is misleading and many of the publishers have ulterior motives. I'd rather go by the first hand accounts of those who've actually lived long enough to witness history THEMSELVES and make a comparison. I also BELIEVE (don't know for sure)...again based on what I've been told by those who were around to witness...that a lot of the diseases you mentioned were almost unheard of among Black people 80 and 100 years ago UNTIL they started coming into more frequent contact with Whites. I'm not yet 50 and I know I've seen more Black folks walking around talking to themselves and exhibiting mental problems today than I did 30 years ago. So no doctor or scientist can present information to me claiming that Black mental health today is better than it was 30 years ago and expect me to believe it. Troy I don't know if I'd agree that unvaccinated Black people would be dying from typhoid and other diseases because we lived and thrived in Africa for thousands if not millions of years without needing those vaccines. How did we manage all those years before White doctors came along? You make a good point about African immigrants being the cream of the crop. I've heard this before also. Having not yet been to Africa, perhaps I should wait until I go and see for myself how the majority behave before trying to judge and compare behaviors between us and them. I used to think that Black people lived better out on the West Coast than they did in the Midwest based on what I'd seen on television and in the movies....unitl I actually MOVED out there and saw the high rates of incarceration and destitution experienced by so many Black people in California as compared to more established Black communities back East and down South. Sometimes you don't really KNOW until you've physically gone to a place to see and weigh the facts yourself. CD I like that you promote discipline and high achievement leaving few excuses. I also agree with you that one of the biggest reasons for Black children under achieving in school is their lack of desire to achieve. I constantly bring up the fact that any child who can remember the lyrics to an entire rap album certainly has the potential to excell in school. So for many it's not the ABILITY....it's the DESIRE. However the crux of much of your argument seems to be that we should focus on the EXCEPTIONS instead of the majority. Your position is instead of making excuses, we should look at the "exceptional ones" who happen to excell against all odds. We should take a lesson from them and encourage more of our people to be like them as a solution to rise above their circumstances. But remember there are exceptions to almost every rule in this world. Hell, even during slavery you had some Black people who prospered! Yet I don't know of any Black person who'd think it's a good idea to go back to slavery because some did well. No matter how dire circumstances get in a society, you'll always have SOME (even if it's less than .005%) who are smart enough, strong enough, and determined enough to rise above their circumstances and turn lemons into lemonade. But if I took you to most urban areas around this nation, for every 1 child who you can point to as being smart enough or disciplined enough or hard working enough or "lucky" enough to make it out of the ghetto or get through a crumby school and go to college...I can point to 5 who may succumb to their environment and either end up homeless, in prison, on drugs, or worse...... We don't want a society where only a fraction of people are able to achieve success while the majority fail. Just like an otherwise bright student would still fail to learn in a dilapidated school plagued with filthy bathrooms and violent classrooms.... The even a virtuous and hard working people would still find it next to impossible to succeed in a society that was actually DESIGNED to trap them and prevent all but a small gifted and "lucky" few to break through and succeed. Justice flows from the top down. We must work on making the system and society itself more just before focusing on the individual and demanding more responsibility from him.

Cynique, yes the White female cop was charged but she's also out on bond walking around enjoying her current freedom and the comfort of her friends and family. As far as the Charlotte incident. I just read a piece that the officer was issued a body cam but didn't turn it on until AFTER the shooting! Go and try to figure THAT one out.......

Troy / Cynique Troy it's funny you point to the 3 sistas who represent the core of the Black Lives Matter movement and how they aren't getting the recognition Colin is getting, because I heard that THEY also stole the movement from a more local group of protesters in the St. Louis area who weren't as well recognized by the media....lol. I don't know about Kaepernick but I've met Alicia Garza and she oozes sex appeal in real life, more so than she does in pictures or on television. I'm not sure why the media doesn't give her more exposure. I have to admit, I don't care too much for the national athem protest myself. First of all I actually DO love America. I don't love everyone in America, nor do I love most of the people RUNNING America. But there is a lot of good a tremendous amount of POTENTIAL in America to bring about a new world so I love this country dearly for what it COULD BE and probably WILL BE when the right people are in charge. I think Black atheletes and Black people in general who have a gripe against social injustice should be careful to be very specific and laser like in there targetting. Not just so that they don't step on unnecessary toes and paint "America" with a broad brush....especially with themselves also being part of America; but also so that they don't end up pissing off otherwise "neutral" people or those who may have been sympathetic to their cause if it were presented in a more reasonable and rational way. For example..... We need the police, we just need them to do their job and stop over reacting. The blanket bashing of cops not only makes you LOOK like you support crime and chaos, but it's almost totally ineffective because it's so "scatter shot" in it's approach. Instead of bashing ALL cops, or even worse bashing the entire nation...YOUR NATION...perhaps it would be better to hold a massive protest at the offending officer's home and don't let up until justice is served. Or forcing through a federal law with mandatory sentencing for officers who shoot citizens who were proven not to have any weapons on them at all. Those two steps alone would probably do more to curb and reduce the number of police shootings in urban areas than spontaneous fits of emotion that are pretty much undirected or protests with no clear goals in mind.

What I don't understand is....... Why were there 3 nights of rioting over a Black cop who shot a Black man who they claimed was armed in Charlotte. But over in Tulsa Oklahoma you had a WHITE cop who shot an UNARMED Black man and I hadn't heard of one brick being thrown through a window! I've lived in Charlotte and there's a lot of New Yorkers and Philadelphians down there, perhaps that explains some of the rowdiness. But other than that, it makes little sense why such a questionable shooting brought about such a violent response when just a few states away you have an obvious clear cut case of police misconduct and out right murder. I don't know if there shold be a "rioting public relations board' or something to help people decide what they should be raising hell about because it's a bit confusing to see such strange responses. Don't get me wrong. I'm glad to see Black people stand up where ever they are. But you have to pick your battles wisely and I do so with atleast a consideration of how the public will view you and your struggle if you want support.

Cynique If the Black community was better off spiritually, mentally, and socially 75 years ago than they are today it's because the water and air were purer, the food was whole and less toxic, the children weren't getting vaccinated as much....infact most Black people had their children at home instead of in the hospitals. It was other BLACK WOMEN who helped bring Black babies into the world. They knew the Black mother and her body. As opposed to the sterile cold environment so many hospitals are today where White doctors don't know the Black body and don't care and would rather do a quick C-section on the mother and get it over with. Black people had far less contact with the medical system than they do today and many older Black folks will swear than this is the reason they lived longer and healthier lives for the most part. 75 years ago most Black people in America still lived down south in rural environments where they lived off the land and pretty much maintained self sustaining communities where they relied on REAL knowledge. Priori knowledge gained from observing nature instead of artificial knowledge given to them by White academia. Infact, even TODAY if you keep up with who's the oldest people living in America it's usually a Black man or woman (usually a woman) who was born and raised in a rural or near rural environment. That shows you how healthy Black folks were in the past as opposed to many of our people today. You know something isn't "right" about a lot of Black people under 50. They aren't thinking as quickly and act more "apish" and "buffoonish" than past generations. You know as a kid you and most Black children were "quicker" than White children. Many of these kids aren't. They even talk slower and seem to be more "absent minded". They're also less CREATIVE than their parents and grand parents were and you can tell this by listening to the music and how much it has declined decade by decade from originality to sampling and now inaudible mumbling and straight garbage. Most of these kids don't even know how to PLAY a musical instrument let alone INVENT one like their grand parents used to. Did you ever think you'd see the day when White men are better on the saxophone or on the piano than Black men? I remember going down south as a kid and seeing how my aunts used to make soaps and lotions from scratch. Black women used to can and jar all types of foods that they grew in their own gardens. Black men at 70 could put on a pair of overalls and build an addition his house or build a big house from scratch with his sons. I didn't see them build machines like tractors but they could FIX anything that was built! How many Black folks are out building ANYTHING today? If something goes wrong with your house or car you call a White man or a Mexican to repair it. What happened? If you take a SERIOUS look at the generation of Black Americans born between the late 60s and today, something has happened to many of them MENTALLY. It's as if their mental development has been arrested.

Troy No, if I had children I WOULD NOT get them vaccinated. As best I could I'd provide a healthy environment and diet for them to maintain a strong immune system. I wouldn't worrry about them not being able to enroll in school because the schools are miseducating many Black children anyway. I'd home school them and probably give them a much better education than the local school district ever could. As far as vaccines being a part of a conspiracy...... I don't know if they were designed to "destroy" Black people, but certainly I believe that regardless of the intent...the RESULT is that most of the MMR vaccines that have been administred to children of all races seem to have a disproportionately negative reaction in Black children and especially Black boys and it increases their rates of autism and seems to lessen the overall general intelligence of most Black boys and girls who receive them. And I'm not the ONLY one who believes this....Rober Deniro seems to also believe it: https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Robert+De+Niro+autism+Black+children Again, look at Africans from the continent who HAVE NOT received those same vaccinations and they are are smarter than White children in school and much smarter than Black American children. You tell me what's the problem? CD Personal responsibility will only take you so far. One of the reasons why people file class action lawsuits when they are victims of environmental toxins and poisonings and WIN is because the law recognizes that it wasn't THEIR FAULT that they were poisoned or exposed to toxins. Responsibility means the ABILITY TO RESPOND. When people are systematically being poisoned and miseducated and denied access to clean water and fresh food....they don't have the ability to respond on their own. Only an authority higher than them has the ability to replace their infrastructure, remove the toxins from their environment, and improve their overall quality of life As far as me making it out. I never was really "in" the ghetto. We weren't rich....but I didn't grow up in poverty, I grew up in the lower middle class. Neither I nor my brothers had to struggle for food or any other basic necessity like many of my cousins and other family did. I guess that's why we have a different mentality than them and know how much better things can be than the way of life so many of them are satisfied with living. I'm not rich now either, I'm still on the lower side of middle class but I'm somewhat comfortable by God's grace. I had a brief encounter with poverty some years ago and found it intolerable....lol. Years ago I had moved to a new city, hadn't worked in a while and was close to being out on the street so I woke up one morning and was so angry I got dressed and went down to the city hall and DEMANDED a decent paying job and told them I wasn't leaving the building until either security took me out or they gave me a job with decent pay and benefits. Even talked about how I was an American citizen and had a right to life which includes work at decent pay started quoting the Constitution on them...lol. They gave me a job. But I decided I didn't like the city because I couldn't find a girlfriend there, so I quit the job and left town....lol.

Troy I does seem that the media is giving Kaepernick more attention for his actions than they've given other atheletes who've taken much bolder stands. And I think him being mixed probably does have something to do with it. I've noticed that many White people seem to tolerate the rebelliousness of mixed people a little more than they do Black folk. I'm not sure why. I know many Whites (and Blacks) find mixed people more attractive than EITHER race and perhaps their physical appearance softens the "blows" so to speak and smoothes the edge of their otherwise offensive behavior. Infact, I've noticed since being a kid that people who are perceived as "good looking" often get away with more rebellious and even anti-social behavior than normal looking and unattractive people. As far as walking off the plantation....I mean field...... Actually I think you may be on to something. If Black ball players REALLY want to be effective in stopping police brutality and other forms of social injustice...maybe they should protest by NOT PLAYING. I'm guessing that most police officers being blue collar guys are probably HUGE (said in the way Donald Trump would say it....lol) sports fans. If the angry protests of college kids and the cries of distraught mothers aren't enough to stop them from shooting unarmed citizens, perhaps the threat of no more Monday Night Football, no more Superbowl, and no more NBA games period will force them to reconcile with the community they're supposed to protect. I bet all it would take is ONE SEASON of Black players boycotting the league, and before the next season starts it won't be the players taking a knee but their agents and the coaches and even the police unions...ON BOTH KNEES....BEGGING them to stop the boycott and promising them anything just to get them to play again.

CD I've been working hard on several projects so all I could do was read, but I have to ask Pioneer this, since most of the areas are being gentrified are the same pipes in use? I know for a fact that in Memphis, downtown and North Memphis has been gentrified and the projects were torn down. The short answer would be........ Some of the gentrified areas are using lead tainted water mains that are part of the original system of the earlier urban infrastructures...other's aren't. Because of this, many of the upper middle class White communities are suffering from the same problems that come from lead poisioning as the poor Black communities they replaced suffered from such as ADD, high rates of autism in their children, and violence....but more so than homicide you see SUICIDE. As Troy was talking earlier about the high rates of suicide in New York and other urban areas where you see a lot of yuppies and "hipsters" congregated together today. Just a generation ago those places were plagued by high homicide rates. Same violence, different forms of release. When you realize that psychologically speaking ANGER and DEPRESSION are both forms of frustration that are expressed in different ways.....you realize that homicide and suicide are both violent releases of frustration through the separate paths of anger and depression respectively. Unlike poor Black folks who can blame poverty and racism for their violent feelings, many wealthy Whites don't know WHO to blame so they internalize their feelings until it releases itself in the form of depression and suicidal thought. But a more indepth answer contains muliple compents that we need to understand: 1. I'm not saying the lead is the ONLY chemical that is poisoning the Black community. I believe the vaccines also play a major role in the poisoning of Black children and is responsible for a dramatic decline in Black intellectual performance as well as a dramatic increase in autism and other mental problems you see among so many Black youth. If you look at Black students who were born and raised in the United States verse your Black students from other parts of the globe...you'd have to admit seeing a type of stupidity and poor academic performance that you just don't see among unvaccinated Black children from Africa and the Carribean. 2. Lead poisoning and it's symptoms are strongly influenced by NUTRITION and the lack of it. When a person isn't getting enough zinc and other minerals in their daily diet then their nervous system is more likely to "suck up" minerals from the environment that are potentially toxic like lead and mercury to try and compensate. Most pediatricians and neurologists will confirm this fact. So wealthy and well fed children can be exposed to the same environmental toxins as poor and malnurished children but still do better because their bodies aren't as quick to absorb those toxins in an attempt to compensate. 3. Realize that there are 2 groups of pipes that your water goes through before it comes out of your faucet: 1. The municiple water system. 2. The pipes from the building you're residing in. In the case of the former residents of urban areas. They were getting lead from both the CITY'S old plumbing system as well as the old plumbing system of the buildings and houses they were living in. But in the case of the recently gentrified residents, at best they're only getting lead from the old CITY'S systems....the newer buildings they're living in almost surely has no lead in them. And in some cases even the city's pipes in the gentrified neighborhoods have been replaced so their entire homes are lead free. So most newer White families are getting LESS than half of the lead exposure former Black families were getting. 4. Finally, keep in mind that most upper class White people in these urban areas don't trust tap water ANYWAY. Most of them drink fance bottled water at home and where ever they go and most have water filters in their homes so even if they're in the same communities as the poisoined water they and their children aren't being exposed as much. Even if you didn't accept the factors I just listed, my argument for the lead and violence connection could still fall back on the high rates of suicides found in recently gentrified urban areas in comparison to the high homicide rates of the former residents who both shared the same water supply system to various extents. Both groups exhibit signs of psychological distress and violence but just release them in different ways. ......but that would be low hanging fruit. I'd rather say that although those recently gentrified White communities are and will suffer from the same effects of lead poisoning like higher rates of autism and other mental problems as well as high rates of homicide and even higher rates of suicide....they still shouldn't be expected to experience the SAME type of devastation you see in the poorer populations who occupied the areas before them because too many OTHER important factors are different.

Troy I think that with the exception of the 400 years of slavery and semi-slavery conditions, the other problems you laid out are actually more SYMPTOMS of a larger underlying problem of Black intellectual decline. Even the loss of Black newspapers and news orientated Black media is just another sign of AfroAmerican intellectual decline. Quite frankly, As Black America gets dumber and dumber it no longer has the academic sophistication and standards to develop it's own media sources NOR does it's target audience have the mental capacity to understand the content being presented to them and most likely aren't even interested in stories so serious and mature. Look at what attracts so many of our people today....entertainment full of juvenile gossip and foolishness. We had more informative and better organized media outlets back in the 1930s and 40s than we have today. We REALLY made a lot of progress after slavery during Reconstruction with inventions, land ownership, farming, building schools, building hospitals, and building self sustaining communities in general. Relatively speaking we were outpacing White people in terms of growth for decades....then something happened. Something happened to make many of our people...to put it quite plainly....STUPID. To the point that even many immigrants.....including African immigrants...who come to the United States can easily notice an intellectual deficit in the AfroAmerican community and often take advantage of it.

Troy Cuba wasn't backed by the USSR when Castro launched his revolution. Infact, NO outside nation supported Cuba's actual revolution. The United States supported Castro and his militia to overthrow the Batista government in power before him but somewhere along the way Castro had is own plans and went against U.S. interests and organized the masses of the poor and working class Cubans to change the entire system from a capitalist one to a communist one. Later after being established and no longer having the U.S. as an ally did Russia and the USSR come into the picture. Real change come from the masses...whether at the bottom (poor/Black) or near the bottom (working class/mulatto) of the socio-economic ladder of the old regime. I agree with you on the ineffectiveness of the anthem protests. All they're doing is pissing off a lot of people for nothing in my opinion because it changes very little as far as concrete tangible policy. First of all...... I'm not sure if anyone else sees it this way but KNEELING before the American flag or during the national anthem is actually giving it MORE reverence than standing !!! Hell, if you want to do something...turn your back and fold your arms...lol. That looks more like a protest than kneeling or taking a knee as if you're bowing.....lol. Second of all, most of the people these players are protesting and pissing off people and losing money FOR....probably don't even know what's going on on THEIR behalf. They're too busy with the day to day hustle and grind to keep up with politics . And I'm guessing most of them probably wouldn't even CARE if they did know. Imagine the feeling you get when you step up and fight for somebody and when you get in trouble they look at you and say, "Oh well... Didn't nobody ask you to do that for me."

Sara My statements aren't arrived from ONLY my personal experiences or who I hang around. I'm not the only Black man in the Black community nor are the Black women I've been with the ONLY Black women. Infact, most of the Black women I tend to be with aren't native to America anyway but come from the Carribean or African continent or their parents do, so the vast majority of them haven't been influenced as much by the American media and tend to have very high self esteem and a certain amount of confidence but still maintain a feminine demeanor. It would be pretty naive of me or anyone else to use their own personal situation as a barometer for what's happening in Black America. When I speak on issues affecting Black America I take as much of the general "norm" into account as necessary for accuracy.

Troy You make a good point about the suicide issue. Most people don't know that there are actually more SUICIDES in the United States than there are homicides! The suicide rate is higher than the homicide rate in nearly all cities in the United States. So many people are depressed and feel hopeless. But I still think the homicide rate is more of a threat....atleast more of an IMMEDIATE threat... to a society than the suicide rate because the violence associated with homicides usually involves so many innocent people. Of those suicides in New York or Chicago.....how many were committed by children or babies? But many of the innocent being shot down in the streets of America are innocent children whether by gang members targeting eachother or by their own parents who killed them along with their siblings as an ultimate form of domestic violence. Unlike a homicide which invades other people's space; suicide is usually done in a private setting and USUALLY (although there seems to be an increasing number of murder-suicides in rural White America) involves only the individual who intends to carry out the act. Another thing to look at is suicides usually claim one life and that's it. Homicides claim multiple lives AND the perpetrator if prosecuted often ends up losing a large portion of their lives incarcerated or even executed. Finally, homicides tend to lead to more homicides as the loved ones of the victim seek revenge. Most suicides end with the act, although some people are so distraught over a loved one committing suicide that they often become suicidal themselves. I typed all of that to say that even if the scripts were flipped, in the court of public/world opinion those who commit homicides would still be judge more negatively than those who commit suicide. Hell, in many Asian nations suicide is seen as honorable and seen as at decent thing to do when you've shamed yourself and your family. As far as the rest of your posts........... You seem to be doing a better job pushing one of my points about how the media is fueling the violence in Chicago than I was. But at the end of the day the question we still have to answer is WHY? Just like we ask why would Black men continue to sell dope even after they've known for a generation that it was brought in specifically to trap them...... We also must ask why so many Black people in Chicago and elsewhere still kill eachother so readily despite all of the media coverage and the "stop the violence rallies"....where people are even getting killed at the rallies! When this much attention is being brought to a problem yet the problem persists and in some cases even gets worse...at some point even the most intelligent minds will have to entertain the idea that something is either influencing many Black youth to be violent and crazy or out right MAKING them violent and crazy. How bad will things have to get before the most intelligent minds in the Black community are compelled to examine ALL options and dismiss NONE until the problem is solved?

Troy You're mixing governmental policies with social revolutions. Ofcourse INSTITUTIONS like slavery and colonialism were initiated by the rich and powerful. These events mere products of an already established system that wanted to feed itself with more resources, land, and power. This is not change. England and Spain....who were already in the business of stealing territory and exploiting people.....stealing land from the Native Americans and enslaving Africans was NOT change; it was just a continuation of the same ideal but taken to another level. I'm talking about REAL CHANGE. Change in the very structure of a government or a new social paradigm. Change in the very system itself in which the old values, laws, and ways of thinking and doing things are nearly wiped out. This is almost always fueled by the masses at the bottom...even if it is initiated by the intellectuals or professionals in the middle who inspire the masses and alert them. The Haitian Revolution led by Toussaint The Cuban Revolution led by Castro. The Chinese Revolution by Mao. Even the Revolutionary war and the founding of the United States from England lead by Henry, Jefferson, Washington and others. These were all major revolutions that brought about complete change in the government and society and were fueled by the masses (poor and lower class) albeit initiated by members of the intellectual or professional classes who strayed from their peers. And to answer you question.... Quite frankly, when it comes to Federal policy, just like the Federal elections....the agenda is SET and the will of the majority of the people matters little to those in authority. But when it comes to local politics I KNOW we as individuals can have a tremendous influence both on policy and political office.