Pioneer1

Troy It wasn't just Prince's musical talents and accomplishments....that I can understand. These girls (and women) actually liked the way he LOOKED. They thought he was sexy....attractive! I can understand how some Black people can get hung up on the light skin and straight hair, because a lot of Black men are the same way. And again, no disrespect to our wonderful brother Prince who probably just did "his thing" not necessarily looking for worship and adornment from the public. But what I didn't understand as a younger man and STILL don't understand is why such a FEMININE looking man was seen as so attractive to so many females. You just don't see the opposite. You don't see heterosexual men focusing their lusts on MASCULINE looking women. No muscle bound women with bald heads and excessive facial hair. Serena Williams with her muscular arms is about as close to a "masculine" woman as I've seen that Black men will lust after. And even her other attributes are so sexual that you'll over look the muscular biceps.

Troy @Pioneer1, have you ever considered that seeing past relatives is just one mind playing tricks on them? I have, as have many early researchers of the phenomena.....but the evidence that spans across periodic and cultural lines is too consistent and too overwhelming for this to be just some "mass hallucination" that so many people down through the annals of history have been experiencing as they lay on their death beds. It's scientific to the point that because of prior knowledge of these things I expected my own mother to have them....and she did. I can ask almost any nurse who has been around the dying certain things and they will confirm them as being true. This knowledge...that dead loved ones come to assist you in the dying process....is WELL KNOWN in most traditional African and Native American religious systems. Also the experience is not universal. Why don't you hear stories of those about to be executed being visited by relatives to help them transition, or those who are about to die from an accident or heart attack? One could imagine how hard it would be for a dead body to tell you ANYTHING about what they experienced before they actually died....lol. But as for those who either came close to death or actually DIED briefly but were brought back to life, there are millions in the United States alone. And they too talk about seeing dead friends and family as well as having experienced other realms or other worlds. I'll direct you to Dr Raymond Moody's work with near death experiences. As well as Dr Melvin Morse and many others scientists who have been tracking those who have died or were near death and were resucitated to talk about what they've witnessed. Would you care to relate a personal spiritual experience? Not yet. Not until I figure out a way to actually PROVE the experiences. A personal experience is usually only proof to the person who had it, especially experiences that are spiritual in nature and tend not to leave too much physical evidence. What I will suggest though, as EVIDENCE for you is to ask someone of sound mind that you trust in your own circle be they friends or family members who have been around the dying and ASK THEM....and see how many smile at you and tell you the same thing I just told you....lol. You'd be suprised at people you could have known for 30 or 40 years who would have never mentioned it until you asked them.

I saw the video. All that talk about the history of credit and currency, it looked like a clip from "Loose Change". I was waiting for him to talk about the World Trade Center and building 7....lol. There is some truth to the claim that giants like Facebook are sucking up too oxygen because so many Black people have abandoned their own private business and social websites just to sign up with Facebook...it's shameful. But I don't think it's the internet that's creating the BIGGEST problems for small businesses. The biggest problem is the OVER REGULATION that comes from the federal, state, and local levels. And this is coming from a LIBERAL...lol. Most people are turning to Amazon, eBay, and even Craigslist to push their products because it's easier and cheaper to trade on-line than to open up a 4 walled brick and mortar establishment. Not only can they avoid the constant property inspections from local and state authorities, or avoid paperwork that can be damn near as thick as a phone book, but you cut down on the amount of employees who thanks to more government (all 3 levels) regulation often become harder and harder to keep anyway. I remember being in Time Square a few years back and saw so many talented brothers...Black men who could take a piece of crayon or charcoal and draw your picture in 3 or 4 minutes on a sheet of cardboard and were only getting $5 or $10 and had to do it quick and run off before the police caught up with them because apparently it was illegal. It made me so angry that in a nation that prides itself on economic freedom, something as simple and benign as drawing a picture for a few bucks on the street has now become illegal. Take away the excessive dictatorial regulation that tends to frighten people away and over burden those brave enough to take on the challenge of entrepreneurship....and I gurantee you that businesses will flourish.

Troy Spike Lee's film CHIRAQ did not glorify violence or gangster lifestyle in Chicago, in fact it did the exact opposite. The name of the movie itself "Chiraq", can be taken as a romanticism or glorification of violence by taking the name Chicago and poetically associating it with a wore torn middle eastern nation. I also said the movie dramatized violence by loosely tying it to the Greek classical of Lysistrata. But regardless as to how they frame the violence of the city in the movie, the fact is they certainly didn't help things. Infact I believe they made the situation worse by fueling the egos of many Black youth by giving Chicago violence more international notoriety. Did you see the film? No, not in it's entirety. I saw clips of it during a critical review and discussion but I actually refused to go watch the whole thing in a bit of a private protest. 　 Sara "The facts, just the facts, m'am" are "excuses?" I don't think so. Outsiders who take their knowledge of the Chicago metro area from mainstream media and other misrepresentations of the black experience need to be 'corrected' by those of us in the know who have not swallowed whole-hog the propaganda of black inferiority.... or criminality; who in knowing the FACTS, have no shame in relating the truth rather than parroting the "I'm a nigga/you a nigga/a nigga ain't shit" propaganda of TPTB. I understand the point you're making, you don't want your community to be falsely labled or misrepresented. However the fact is the level of violence in Chicago's Black community is far too high for us to tolerate REGARDLESS as to whether or not other communities are experiencing the same. How much comfort will a cancer patient receive from knowing that they are not alone and others have also developed the same disease? Not much. They want to be cured and made whole again. Facts can indeed be excuses if rather than helping, the merely get in the way of solving the problem. Also, my response to Cynique concerning the situation in The Chi is totally separate from my intentions in starting this thread. My hypothetical scenario shouldn't be taken as an implication that I personally see Black people as mentally inferior any more than the film makers of the movie I"ndependence Day" were implying that they hoped space aliens would invade America. It's just stimulation for philosophy.

I love our dearly departed brother Prince and I hope he is resting in peace. However I still have to wonder out loud why so many heterosexual women went absolutely crazy over such a feminine looking man. It would be a like men going crazy over Ru Paul or some masculine looking woman. I remember Jamie Foxx during one of his stand up routines commenting that Prince was so "pretty" that even HE'D fuck him...lol. As a kid I'd just watch how so many girls swooned over prince and had posters of him in their bedrooms. I found this mostly among Black American women, because most of the African women I've met couldn't care less and I've never heard any White women comment on Prince's looks or sexiness. Muhammad Ali JOKED about how pretty he was....Prince wasn't joking.

Troy Pioneer what informs your belief in an afterlife? Is it a specific religion? No. My spiritual beliefs are based on personal spiritual experiences, information I've gotten from friends and family members older than me, and information I've gather from various books dealing with those types of subject.....most of which seem to corroborate eachother. For example.... It's a known fact that when most people are dying a relatively slow death that may take hours or days....they typically see deceased family members who come to comfort them and also help them transition to the other side. This was the case with my mother, other relatives, and many nurses and nursing assistants as well as others who've been around dying people have said the same thing.

Sara I'm not sure, but something tells me that all those stats and other excuses you're providing to either try to explain away or deflect from why the Black violence rate in Chicago far out numbers that of Whites will be any comfort to the thousands of Black victims and thier families who are suffering from the effects of essential genocide. Go to a hospital room of a teenager who just got shot over being in the wrong neighborhood and say: "Hey there young brother! I know you are a victim of Black on Black violence, and since the gang who popped you also threatened your family too...they're probably still in danger. But if it's any comfort to you there is a White man somewhere in this SAME hospital who is also a victim of White on White violence after having a couple teeth knocked out in a drunken brawl." You better say it fast... Deflection and pointing the finger at what other people are going through doesn't help us. All it does is deflect us from focusing on finding the solutions to the very real problems that affect our communities.

I guess my strong belief in God and the afterlife prevents me from feeling too sad about him making that transition. Like my parents, I would like the people whom I love still here....but healthy and happy. I wouldn't want them living a life debilitating pain and suffering. As long as it's not FORCED, I actually support euthanasia for those who are seriously suffering and desire it for themselves. Often times people who are terminally ill not only have to suffer physically from thier illness, but also the psychological torture of having to decide whether or not to kill themselves and whether or not they'll end up in hell for doing it. In the news you frequently hear of people killing their own spouses out of frustration after seeing them suffer so much and not being able to ease their pain. Ideally, a terminally ill person would be surrounded by family and friends to peacefully say there goodbyes and then a medical physician would administer something that would gentley put them to sleep, to a deep coma, and then to death.

Cynique I'm no sociologist but I can give you what I believe are two MAJOR reasons why violence in that city has exploded: Media The media has subconciously PROMOTED violence among the Black youth of Chicago by constantly associating them with it to it becomes part of their identity. Since before Obama took office over 7 years ago the media has focused on the violence among Black youth in Chicago as a sort of back-handed swipe at Obama, suggesting that if this is the environment a Black President comes from then this is where he may take the country. Although at the time Chicago was nowhere near the murder capital either in per-capita or in actual homicides, everytime there was a debate about violence and gun control conservatives would routinely bring up the violence in Chicago and how it's strict gun laws hasn't helped the city. Then the national media started randomly broadcasting Chicago's homicides on a daily basis for no apparent reason. Unless it was a mass shooting...generally homicides are considered local news. But for some reason NBC and ABC started reporting Chicago's local homicides nationally. Then ofcourse the big one dropped. Spike Lee's CHIRAQ comes out essentially dramatizing and glorifying the gang culture of Chicago and this gave many Black youth a sense of pride and admiration that most young people hunger for whether it's good or bad. The same thing happend with movies like Colors and music like gangsta rap and how it not only fueled gang violence in Los Angeles by giving Black youth a negative culture to identify with and maintain but also caused youth all over the nation to imitate them for the same reasons. Culture Most of those who operate the criminal justice system in Cook County and the state of Illinois are middle class Whites from suburban areas, but they're trying to control and enforce the law on poor and working class Blacks in the city. Most middle class Whites have an altruistic moral code. The comfortable and stable environment most of them come from creates a belief that people should just "do the right thing" and obey the laws regardless of good or bad consequences. Where as... like the Sicilians, Italians, and Jews in the ghettoes of America BEFORE them....most Black males respect STRENGTH and accomplishment. Not pollyanish complex everchanging laws constantly coming in form outside their communities. These laws are often seen as obstacles to be overcome rather than boundaries. While the middle class code emphasizes education and handling conflict through the "proper channels" which means through lawyers, police officers, courts, ect..... Most inner city men regardless of race can't afford lawyers and have an entirely different code of honor that demands they be seen as strong, brave, and quick to retaliate against a perceived offense. Just another example of what happens when you expect Black people to live under a White culture. I believe the only way the violence in Black Chicago is going to get solved is when the Black community stops relying on the police and other White people or White ran institutions to solve a problem they have a vested interest in maintaining...and actually take the responsbility THEMSELVES to solve it. The Nation of Islam had a solid reputation for going into dope dens violent housing projects and establishing peace and security in a relatively short period of time. 　 Troy As I said in the MIchael Eric Dyson thread, I'm still going to lay most of the responsibility on Black America itself for not coming up with a sound Agenda (capital "A") to present to Obama for him to take affirmative action on. White women and homosexuals were READY with theirs and presented their demands to him before he even took his oath of office. We sat back just EXPECTING for him to "help a brother out". Both him and Eric had the power, but without the direction of a Black Agenda....that power was used by others to there own ends.

I remember years ago I was in the hospital for some routine tests and a man who was in his 80s came bouncing in my room calling me "school boy" and asking me was I ready to go fishing. Now, this man was 80 something and I was in my 20s...lol. Despite his age AND the fact that he was in socks and just a hospital gown, he spent, slid, and dashed around my room with the agility and grace of a ballerina. One of his loved ones finally tracked him down and came in to get him and explained that he was a boxer back in the day and was senile, no doubt from so many licks he probably took upside the head. When he was reminded of his boxing career he began to relate stories from back in the Depression and REALLY put on a show before they took him away ! I'm not suprised brother Muhammad's heart was still beating strong...as only a champion boxer's heart would. These atheletes have bodies like MACHINES, it's a shame that so many of them end up ruining their brains and nervous systems with all the injuries and drugs...both legal and illegal. On a more spiritual note..... I used to think that people couldn't control the actual moment of death. I figured you went when it was your time...not a moment sooner or later. But time and time again I hear stories of people on their death beds who seem to have a "choice" when to call it quits and literally "give up the ghost". If they aren't doing it at the nod of understanding family members..... They're "holding on" until all of their loved ones arrive from out of town to say their last goodbyes. Others "hold on" until they finish other business. It's interesting how so many people seem to have control over their moment of departure.

Cynique My answer to the question you asked Del, which he apparently thought was too obvious to answer is no. Perhaps Del didn't answer it because he thought it was too obvious. Or perhaps.... He didn't answer it because it would eventually lead to him having to explain why he singled out my statement that White folks "allowed" these things.....as if he disagreed with it. 　 Power is rarely shared. Diluted power is doled out to what you refer to as police officers, mayors, congressmen, college students, heads of organizations, but these blacks all answer to "The Man", even if they were among the voting bloc who helped elect "him". IMO. Do you disagree? When it comes to SYSTEMIC power, or power that is granted within the framework of an institution...I agree absolutely. This type of power (known as AUTHORIZATION) is bestowed from the top down. However, a few years ago doing some community work with so-called "street people" I became acquainted with another type of power that some people generated on their own from the support and admiration from the people around them. They didn't have official ranks or titles bestowed on them by the government or any other institution, but the way they spoke and carried themselves commanded respect and obediance from their friends and even many acquaintences. This type of power is known as "people power". This type of power can't be diluted, shared, bestowed, or doled out. A good example is the Kanye concert and how the people nearly rioted over him last night. But it's not just him, that could go for most superstars. No Mayor, Governor, military General or anyone else of official institutional rank could have gotten that response from a crowd of people. Kanye had enough power that he could have directd that crowd to destroy half of Manhattan if he had so chosen. He wasn't granted that power by the state, military, or any other insitution....although he was promoted by the music industry. He got it from the people. No institution could take that away from him because they didn't "authorize" or give it to him. This is the type of power most Black leaders have traditionally enjoyed in America even under the worst oppression.

I logged on to my computer and saw: At first I thought they were doing yet ANOTHER remake of Planet of the Apes. It was one of my favorite movie series! Then I realized that it was a shrine to "Harambe" the gorilla. Atleast they didn't name him "Coco" like so many apes used to be named. It's funny how a gorilla with the name "Harambe" (swahili for "unity") has gotten America so divided....lol. The sad truth is the reason so many White people feel so much worse over the gorilla that was killed (as they do over other animals like dogs and eagles) than they do for Black men who are shot down in the street is because they feel the animals didn't DESERVE death. Atleast the animal is innocent and can be an entertaining companion, but many see the Black man and woman as useless and worthy of extermination.

Atleast our brother isn't suffering anymore. When people are in the last stages of a debilating disease, sometimes it's best that they make that transition rather than continuing to "hold on". Too often it's the family that keeps them when they are ready to go. I was having a conversation about him with a doctor yesterday and we were talking about how he...like so many other boxers....took repeated blows to the head. But Ali was especially famous for his "rope a dope" where he just took so much punishment in order to wear his opponent down. Most of these boxers don't know that many of those blows give the brain "mini-concussions" that turn out to affect them later on in life. I also believe all of the pain killers Ali and other professional atheletes take contributes to the neurological problems so many of them develop after their careers. When there's millions of dollars and championships at stake, a lot of young people will readily put their health at risk and push past the pain with medications for a temporary boost not caring (or knowing) about the drastic effects it may have on them later on in life. Concussion....the movie in which Will Smith played a doctorr who investigated brain injuries related to NFL players could have just as easily been done about boxers.

Del Pioneer you know the answer to that question Come on now Del, the question is about what YOU think...not me. How would I know what YOU thought unless I asked you? If I DID know what was in your mind, trust me I wouldn't be wasting time in this thread. I'd be somewhere availing myself of the financial institutions that you frequent...lol.

Del I know you don't currently reside in the United States..... But judging from the time you've spent here, do YOU think AfroAmericans have enough power in this nation to join government institutions and do major things without being "allowed" to by the dominant White populous?

Oh..... No WONDER they're talking about pressing charges against the mother of the boy who wandered into the gorilla enclosure at the zoo. The parents are Black! http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-racism-found-cincinnati-zoo-saga-article-1.2655860 I was thinking to myself of all the times parents have taken their children to the zoo and how the kids ended up wandering into places they didn't belong....but no one ever thought about "charging" the parent with a crime. Everyone from the zoo's staff to the authorities were so happy nothing happened to the child they let things go...but not in this case. So part of me "wondered" was the woman of color or something that they felt so anxious to blame the mother for the incident. To add futher insult...... It appears that someone did a story about them detailing the boy's father's criminal record which had absolutely nothing to do with the incident at the zoo.

Sara Answer MY question first....and I'll answer yours....lol.

Sara No, I meant exactly what I said. Black folk telling other black folk how to spend their (maybe) money! You put a list of things Reparations should be used for. I consider it "arrogant" for you to make that decision for the rest of us, that's all. It's not arrogance, to show our people how to best use their wealth and educate them on how NOT to be taken advantage of. It's called EFFECTIVE LEADERSHIP. It's irresponsible to just hand over millions of dollars to a vulnerable people, many of whom are illiterate and grossly ignorant of financial matters. Con artists and scammers would be lined up like sharks behind slave ships just waiting to take advantage of our people.The phone calls and letters in the mail would probably start weeks BEFORE the first check came. Look at the Trump University scandal that's brewing right now (told those Republicans not to fuck with the Clintons....lol) and how they're being accused of scaming the poor and elderly and taking advantage of their financial ignorance.

Sara OK..... NOW I see why you've been running around here acting goofy about my quotes...LOL. I think Troy brought this to your attention because often you not only quote a person's ENTIRE post, but you also tend to respond to them WITHIN their actual quote which makes it hard for others (and probably the person you're responding to) to understand who said what and follow the conversation. I thought about mentioning it to you a couple times....but hey....it's your style, so it's really not my place to tell you how to express yourself. But in your defense, I will admit that it's hard (for me atleast) to make multiple SEPARATE quotes in one thread. That's why I choose to just quote people in red letters and put my responses below them.

Sara Oh, btw, DuBois abandoned his "Talented Tenth" postulation. I said "similar to" , not "exactly like". A coyote is "similar to" a wolf....but not "exactly like" one. Cynique Come on. If white people have definitively proven their superior intellect, they'll be too smart to share their power with a select number of Blacks. As Troy pointed out White people ALREADY think they're superior intellectually, yet they still allow Blacks to become police officers, mayors, congressmen, go to college, form our own organizations, ect..... What makes you think a confirmation of their beliefs would make THAT big of a difference in how they treat us?

Sara Oh my.. Thanks for that definition! Although I already KNEW the definition of "enslavement", I'll probably sleep easier tonight after reading such confirmation! Now let me drop a heavy definition on YOU: e·vade əˈvād/ verb gerund or present participle: evading escape or avoid, especially by cleverness or trickery. "friends helped him to evade capture for a time" synonyms: elude, avoid, dodge, escape (from), steer clear of, keep at arm's length, sidestep; More lose, leave behind, shake off; informalgive someone the slip "they evaded the guards" antonyms: confront, run into (of an abstract thing) elude (someone). "sleep still evaded her" avoid giving a direct answer to (a question). "he denied evading the question" synonyms: avoid, dodge, sidestep, bypass, shirk, hedge, skirt around, fudge, be evasive about; informalduck "he evaded the question" antonyms: face (Any Resemblance of the above definition to Actual Persons, Living or Dead, is Purely Coincidental) Since the definition of enslave you provided supports my contention that one has to have once been free in order to be EN-slaved, again the question that almost begs itself to be asked is: Since you believe all of them were born free...at what period of their lives do you think most of our "ENSLAVED" ancestors made the transition from freedom to bondage ?

Troy I like the new avatar Thank you. Garvey his a personal hero of mine. man I can drink dairy and eat ice all day long and I'm in my 50's now what? Also people from other parts of African are also able to digest lactose. Again skin color is genetically determined (ignoring environmental factors), but as we've written numerous times; skin color is insufficient to to determine what you understand as race. I'd bet most of the genetic variation we observe in human is due more to environment (geography, available food supply, climate, etc). Cultures come and go too quickly to have much of an influence on our genetics. I know a lot of Black people in their 40s and 50s who drink milk and consume other dairy products. And almost all of them suffer from adverse side effects ranging from gas and upset stomach to chronic bronchitis and constant colds. The milk is bothering them, they just don't know it. And even when it's brought to their attention a lot of them still consume it anyway....like a smoker with emphysema who keeps on smoking. I know East Africans and Sudanese drink a lot of milk but their genetics is differnt from Black Americans (and the milk they're drinking is different too). Most Black Americans as I said are descended from WEST AFRICANS. Now because of slavery most of us in America have Northern European ancestry as well, so we share SOME of their European gene. Some of us have European genes that cause our skin to be lighter. Others have European genes that cause our hair to be straighter. Others have European genes that allow us to consume dairy products at an advanced age. But these are minor exceptions to the GENERAL RULE that we as decendants of West Africans should be living by based on our genetic heritage. Generally speaking those of West African descent CAN NOT and SHOULD NOT be consuming dairy products after adulthood as it could lead to all types of health problems that you'd think were totally unrelated. Another example of "culture versus genes" is alcohol consumption....... Most White people consume alcoholic beverages on a daily basis, with meals, while watching televsion, after work, for celebrations, for sad occasions...yet most of them can still function and operate a society. Yet the Native American community is nearly DESTROYED from alcohol consumption. Why? Because of genetics. Native American genes don't allow them to process alcohol as effectively as Europeans. Neither do most Black Americans. I'm sure you've seen in college how White kids could drink and drink and drink until they fell out in a coma on the weekends, but Monday morning they are up and in class with their eyes clear and mind sharp. Black students try to drink HALF as much as their White friends and it fucks their lives up. Their eyes turn red, they get violent, can't remember their studies....many end up having to drop out of school and end up alcoholics. Why? Because our bodies weren't designed genetically to consume alcohol the way Whites can. In WESTERN CULTURE (not our culture) alcohol is so common it's almost a staple food.

Lol @ the exchange between CD and Sara......... It reminds staff meetings where you see those highly intellectual brothers who pretty much keep their emotions under control but there's always a sista who knows how to make him go "pop". Next thing you know he's cussing and sweating in the forehead....LOL. All Allow me to just go back to my original point. The military offers a lot of benefits to Black youth from backgrounds of poverty who ordinarily would have few chances of improving their condition...that's undeniable regardless of the drawbacks experiences by thousands of vets; however that's not the MAIN reason I support Black people having a significant presence through out all branches and in all levels of the military. The main reason I support it is because this is OUR nation (whether or not we're treated like it is) and it would be wise for us to make sure there's a BLACK PRESENCE in almost all of this nation's institutions to ensure that White supremacy doesn't entrench itself in them. I support more Blacks joining the local police and sheriff's departments, FBI, and other law enforcement agencies for the very same reason. If we're going to live in this nation we should have as strong of an influence as possible in all of it's operations in order to protect ourselves and our interests.

Not only did I like the few Congolese people I've met over the years, I can honestly say that I like most of the Africans that I've met. I'm talking socially, intellectually, and sexually (women). Me and a few brothers I roll with often talk about how feminine most African women tend to be and how attractive we find it. Infact a long time ago I used be friends with a Congolese sister and tried to get something going with her but I was the same age as her....which meant I was too young for her, lol. I got an opportunity to go to Belgium a while back and was suprised at how many Congolese people I saw. They had their own television channels and entire markets with salt-fish and other Congolese products were on the street. It took me to the end of the day to put together that The Congo had been a colony of Belgium. I think more Blacks Americans and Africans should mingle with eachother because we both have things to teach eachother.

Are you obligated to challenge my opinion or prepared to express one of your own??? My opinion is under that scenario, perhaps the best option would be to follow a path similar to what WEB Dubois outlined in his "Talented Tenth". Promote the most intelligent and conscious of our people into positions of leadership and get behind them. Even under the scenario I outlined where Whites on average were genetically more intelligent than Blacks on average. The law of averages would still allow for a smaller number of Blacks to be just as smart as the smartest Whites. A small number of leaders could lead just as effectively (if not more) as a large number of them given the masses get behind them and submit to their leadership.