Pioneer1

Troy & Sara I would encourage you to read some of the titles on the Ben-Jochannan, Clarke & Van Sertima’s Reading Lists which help you understand why Africa has degenerated to the state you see it today. I would add to Troy's excellent list, "The Destruction of Black Civilization" by Dr. Chancellor Williams. In fact, I would suggest it be the FIRST book read. EXCELLENT RECOMMENDATIONS! Especially Chancellor Williams. I remember as a teenager spending hours in the Shrine of The Black Madonna bookstore in Detroit reading books by those authors. Books like: Destruction of Black Civilization They Came Before Columbus The African Origins of Civilization Troy 　 @Pioneer1, your reasoning is predicated on some questionable assumptions, one of which being a family structure based upon genetic makeup as a differentiating factor between Black and white people. Given the fact that there is no such thing as race the whole premise is flawed. Even if we were to buy into the assumptions (which I don't) the conclusion don't follow. For example; "Some men have very high sex drives but because they are limited to only one wife they begin to cheat with other women married and unmarried producing "outside" children in dysfunctional families" This assumes that men are like animals and unable to exert any influence over their own behavior. It also assume that the only way to relieve this urge is to impregnate another woman and that that woman brings the child to term. What happened to masturbation, prostitution, or just using a damn condom? The results you describe, simply don't natural flow as you've described. Well number one... The idea that there is no such thing such as race is a flawed theory in and of itself.....lol. It's like saying there is no such thing as sex when the difference between males and females are self evident. The CLASSIFICATION of "race" may be questioned, but the fact that racial differences exist is beyond any reasonable doubt. Number two...... We know that CULTURE is in part influenced by one's GENETICS. Races who have more tastebuds to taste with tend to produce foods with more spices and more flavor. Races who have more rods in their eyes allowing them to see more colors tend to produce more colorful clothes. The men of polygamous societies tend to have a higher testosterone rate (thus a higher sex drive) than men of more monogamous societies. It's scientifically proven across the globe that Black and Arab men (and women) on average have a higher testosterone rate than Northern European and East Asian men (and women). And their respective cultures reflect this as Northern European and East Asian cultures have been predominately monogamous through out history....most African and Arab cultures tend to be predominately polygamous either inside or outside the boundaries of marriage. Infact, even the Catholic Church recognizes this difference which is why they had to make an exception and allow priests in Africa to get married or keep their wives. It's not a matter of self control. It's a matter of allowing people to be who THEY are instead of demanding they live by standards established by those who have a different nature than then. As long as Africans in Africa OR the Americas insist on living by Northern European social standards they will continue to suffer from social and family problems as most of those standards go against our very genetic make-up. Rather than asking one group of men to control themselves in a sexually repressive society, why not flip it and demand that the other group be MORE SENSUAL and in accord with the dominant human nature?

Perhaps the first Africans who were brought overhere would most appropiately be called "enslaved" because they were taken from a free state of being and put under the yoke of bondage. However an argument could be made that those BORN in slavery weren't actually EN-SLAVED....they were born in bondage.

I still use the word "nigga" like it's going out of style. it's part of my everyday vocabulary. The only difference between my generation and most Black youth today is that we only said it when we were around eachother, rarely did we say it infront of White people. We instinctively knew the dangers of doing this. Until rap music came out, most Whites didn't know Black people called eachother nigga unlessl they heard it from Black comedians like Richard Pryor My mother used to constantly warn me about saying it so much but I still said it. And as karma would have it, I often cringe when I hear so many younger Black people saying it in public infront of White people. Now they have to constantly try and explain why it's ok for THEM to say it to eachother but it's not cool for Whites to say it. I also believe there is indeed a difference between "nigga" and "nigger". The two words hold two separate definitions. They may not have been initially, but WE as AfroAmericans have invented that difference and made it a reality. As far as differenciating between "slave" and "enslaved African". I think it's mostly semantics. For all intents and purposes if you don't have any power to prevent your kidnapping and subjegation then it doesn't matter WHAT you call yourself....you still are what you are....a slave.

Actually, I believe that the introduction and acceptance of non-African scientific theory and religious dogma contributed to the degeneration of sub-Saharan African culture. Can I prove it? No. Who CAN prove ancient history But just as one particular CULTURE of bacteria can change SWEET CREAM into SOUR CREAM or spoil it all together....I believe practicing a foreign CULTURE can take an advanced African people and turn them into self-destructive scientifically backward barbarians. For example if the Dogon people of Mali had a science that promoted astronomy, particular herbs for healing, and had ways of communicating with the spiritual realm that effectively solved their problems.... but adopted a Christian or Islamic culture that told them all of these things were either wrong and/or of the "devil" and then began practicing ritualized prayer and quotations from "holy scripture" to solve their problems. - that would collapse their society very quickly. Infact, just adopting a FAMILY STRUCTURE that is foreign to your people and goes against their very genetic make-up can prove disasterous. For centuries most African family structures were based on a type of polygamy that allowed men to have as many wives as they could AFFORD. But marriage wasn't required, nor was their a limit on the number of wives a man could have. The higher his status, the more wives he had....and he could take care of them and his children because his high status allowed him to afford it. Men who couldn't afford wives had to pay local/village prostitutes for sex. Now replace that with an religion that: a ) REQUIRED a man to get married whether he could afford to or not and b ) Limited him to only one (or in the case of Muslims 4) wife. Now this causes turmoil and social instability in a number of ways: 1.Some men have very high sex drives but because they are limited to only one wife they begin to cheat with other women married and unmarried producing "outside" children in dysfunctional families. 2. Children who grow up as "outside" or "illegitimate" feel unwanted and are often ostracized by the community. 3.Some men have plenty of money and married but are actively PURSUED by other women in the community who are single and need a man to provide for them which produces conflict between his wife and the other women. 4. Men who don't want to get married or aren't financially able to take care of a wife are forced to anyway by religious obligation and when they can no longer support their wives and children they often abandon them make more dysfunctional families. Now imagine the impact on society that will come from so many "illegitimate" children growing up in dysfunctional families! -Increased aggression from the anger of being thought of as "unwanted" growing up -Not being able to hold certain positions in government because of one's family status -Continuing the cycle of out of wedlock births Can you now see how just this one factor of adopting a foreign practice can lead to chaos and the eventual collapse of your society and send you into a state of backwardness? And the family structure is just ONE aspect of a culture, imagine what the outcome would be when the ENTIRE culture (diet, language, morality, ect....) is replaced by a foreign one as has been the case through out much of Africa.

I've seen it a few times. Game of Thrones isn't a bad show, it's well scripted and I enjoy the nudity it features...lol. But like said before, in my opinion it's just another advertisement for White Supremacy. Over the past decade I've seen a huge surge of these "mythological European past" shows like Lord of the Rings and Hunger Games popping up all over the big screen that seems to take the dark old days of Western Civilization and promote them as some sort of exciting adventurous time for which the White population should be nostalgic for. Where the men were "men" and the women were "naked and blond". Kind of like the obsession many Whites had a while back for the 50s and how they used to push the 50s music and cultural themes. It's as if the present world where Whites are forced to live and work around Blacks and other people of color and treat us as equals is so intolerable to them that they need some form of ESCAPISM to take them back to the "good old days" where you almost never saw any Black people....lol. These mythological past movies seem to do the trick. Most of the White women in them are super-model beauties and most of the White men are well-built super heroes. When I look at shows like this and the Lord of the Rings series, I really see it as a way Hollywood gets to feature movies with all or mostly White casts and justify it by claiming historical accuracy as an excuse for their lack of diversity. Sara 　The richest man who ever lived was Mansa Musa of Mali in the 14th century who founded Timbuktu which National Geographic described as the "Paris of the Medieval World": In the fifteenth century in Timbuktu the mathematicians knew about the rotation of the planets, knew about the details of the eclipse, they knew things which we had to wait for 150 almost 200 years to know in Europe when Galileo and Copernicus came up with these same calculations and were given a very hard time for it. Much of that knoweldge probably was in existence BEFORE Timbuktu was built by King Mansa. Africans probably knew more about science and astronomy BEFORE the invasion of the Arabs than afterward. Mansa Musa had a brother Abubakari whom he financed who sailed over to and explore the Americans CENTURIES before Columbus. I believe all those Olmec Heads they found in Mexico belonged to Abubakari and his crew.

　 Still I appreciated the opportunity to give a actual kiss on the cheek, something that still can't be done virtually Now WAIT a damn minute...... Neither one of you mentioned ALL OF THAT in your first few posts about the encounter. With every post more and more seems to leak out.....LOL. First it started with a tap on the back. Next a big hug is included in the story. NOW I'm hearing about Troy kissing her all over the cheeks and carrying on....... I wonder how much will we know by Memorial Day???

Concerning Kamau Bell having a white wife..... Kamau takes me as the type of brother who probably had a hard time attracting Black girls growing up. I'm not the best at judging how attractive other men may appear to women, but his looks and his demeanor/personality probably didn't appeal to too many Black girls and it probably led to him having better "luck" with White females. I don't really KNOW how Mr Bell grew up so I'm only guessing because I've seen it among Black men of his type so often. And vice-versa with many Black women who probably got more attention from White males growing up than from Black boys who may have seen them as unattractive.

No, I'm not big on Game of Thrones I put it in the same category as the movie that came out a few years ago "300". I'm not the type of person who sees a conspiracy around every corner but I see it as a tool of White Supremacy. It seems to do a lot of embellishing on medival European culture making it seem more technologically and socially advanced than it really was. And it features far too many supermodel looking naked White women and unnaturally virile White men for me to be entertained by it.

Early on in the Civil Rights Movement there were scoffers who declared that White people would NEVER give Black people the right to vote, or go to the same schools as their children, or live in their neighborhoods. NEVER...NEVER...NEVER. And to talk of having a Black (half Black?) President in THOSE days qualified you to be chased down these guys: But look at what we've accomplished in the past 50 years! The only limits we have are the limits we place on ourselves. I saw on the news a couple days ago where IRAN is demanding that the U.S. pay them reparatiosn for the years they had an embargo on their nation.

I saw more topless Black women in the first 15 minutes of Shaka Zulu than I saw in the ENTIRE Coming to America movie! They rarely show it on television today. And when they do they seem to edit much of it out. I remember when Shaka Zulu would come on it took 5 nights for them to conclude the series. Ofcourse this was back in the day when only WHITE breast were banned on television. All others were acceptable. I remember watching PBS and they thought nothing of showing naked tribal women from Africa and South America with no censoring what so ever. I remember asking as a kid about those little patches below their navel...lol. Almost every night you could find Ethiopian women sitting in the middle of the desert breastfeeding their babies and swatting the flies away while Sally Struthers is walking around in Khakis begging the public for money to help them. Back then it was considered natural that Black and Brown breasts should be exposed for the world to see. Janet Jackson and Justin Timberlake were just a little too late with their Superbowl stunt.

Cnn Has Kamau Bell He was Interviewing The KlAn.Those Terror Idiots Some Had Their White And Green Hoods On. I remember brother Kamau had a show on CNN years ago and he seemed pretty "real" to me. However I must say..... I have a slight problem with the loose and flippant way he seems to portray the Klan in his new show's advertisement. As Harry pointed out, this is an organization of TERROR. The KKK has a well documented history of torturing and slaughtering men, women, and children that goes back well over a hundred years. For him to portray these clowns in a funny entertaining way such as singing along in the car with other passengers, or jumping rope, or shaking hands with a Black man almost seems to "clean up" their image or even make them look benign in the minds of an ignorant public. If one didn't know their history, from looking at those commercials one would think the KKK is just some fraternity that dresses up in robes and has lodge meetings from time to time. Troy The above picture is the face and attitude of "corporate America". The boardroom is overwhelmingly White and overwhelmingly female, and this is one of the main reason that Black men rarely can be found in executive positions in corporate America and if they are they're usually gay or so passive they're too scare to take a leak without asking for permission first. Except for the shareholders themselves who just invest and stay out of the day to day administrations; one generally will not be successful inside most corporations unless one is well acquainted with Middle Class White female CULTURE.

The only question I have is..... Will there be any NUDITY in this series???? This is why since a kid even to this day Shaka Zulu is STILL one of my favorite t.v. movies. Never had I seen so many naked Black women on television in my young life, lol. Sara And I agree, no need for a remake.... of another "the history of black people in the U.S. is limited to slavery" movie. I hear you, I think the story of the Black holocaust needs to be told so that no generation ever forgets it. But I really do get tired of constantly seeing our people portrayed as slaves and criminals living on the bottom of Western Civilization. I'd like to see more Black directors come out with movies that glorify our past BEFORE the Transatlantic Slave Trade. How about a movie on the Moorish Civilization? Or on Timbuktu? I want to see beautiful Black woman and tall Black men gliding around in silk robes and gold chains making love to eachother and eating good food. If they can't find history of us doing this....hell....MAKE IT UP ! Like they do with the Game of Thrones. At this point, I'd settle for a sci-fi picture of African glory than to continue seeing movies portraying dumb-ass greasy negroes shuffling around grunting and getting whipped.

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me that with the hell so many people have been catching these past 7 years in urban areas....from mass joblessness and loss of property resulting form the '08 financial crisis, to so many well publicized cases of police executing people, as well as a general increase in crime and homelessness in certain big cities.....that the Black suicide rate would magically drop. Like Dr Umar Johnson and certain other Black psychologists, I too question many of these statistics. Who's doing them? What are they calling "suicide"? Spirits soared in the Black community directly after Obama took office. But hopelessness and despire have been pretty high in Black America these past 4 or 5 years because of his indifferent or inept social policies.

Of course, what I failed to mention is that there are others categories besides the either/or "educated" and "intelligent" ones with all of their variations. Some people are neither. They're just dumb. They let others do their thinking for them. This is why Donald Trump has such a large following. That, and Donald Trump is smart enough to speak the language of the masses, unlike President Obama the Harvard Law Professor who too often SPEAKS like one. Trump lies and exaggerates and even speaks DOWN to the public in an insulting way (like Sara Palin with her Joe six-pack examples) , but he does it in a way that even the most simple redneck can easily understand. People don't support what they don't understand and Democrats must learn this. Republicans from a Federal level all the way down to the local level have DUMD DOWN the public and now they can eastily lie to them and fool them. But speaking of dumb people........ This may sound a little "counter productive" for the good of society, but I don't believe in penalizing stupidity or laziness. I don't believe in ENCOURAGING it, but people can't help it if they are born with low intelligence. Ofcourse people can engage in reckless behavior like drugs and alcohol abuse as well as daredevil stunts that can cause brain injury, but for the most part intelligence is something you are born with and unless we want to be like Nazi Germany where Hitler wanted to kill off all Germans who's intelligence fell below a certain IQ level, I don't think they should be punished for an unfortunate state of intellectual being. I've talked to those who think people of very low IQ should be held to the same standards as everyone else in society and not only work but should hold jobs like nursing assistance and work in the fast food industry. But do you really want "stupid" people taking care of you or a loved one in a hospital when they're in a state of vulnerability and one little slip up by the nurse's assistant could cost the patient their life? Do we really want a "stupid" person handling food that must be eaten by the public....raw meats and dairy products at fast food resturants? I believe ONE of the reasons that there has been so many cases of food contamination in different resturants lately is because you have too many "stupid" people who can't or won't go by the established methods of washing their hands and making sure food is properly separated and refrigerated. I envision a society where those who are between retarded and normal....so-called "stupid" people....can atleast find some simple job that doesn't put the public in danger. But I would much rather see my tax dollars go to supporting a stupid or lazy man to spends his time dodging work and hanging out at a homeless shelter with a clean bed, bowl of oatmeal, and a piece of fresh fruit, than risking him fixing meals that people have to eat or be responsible for bathing and feeding loved ones in a nursing home......or trying to rob someone.

(I think, therefore I am) I haven't heard that term in Latin in a while An old girlfriend who was a paralegal and studied a little Latin used to use that phrase a lot. I learned a while back that most people have gifts or talents (such as writing, public speaking, music, painting, ect...) that only need a little enhancement through perhaps a simple apprenticeship. There's not need to spend a fortune on a 4 or 6 year degree. That highly structured regimented environment you described is the very thing that beats the creativity out of so many young people when they join the academic world. It's too left-brained. There's not enough room to allow one's creativity to flourish. Something I find pretty strange........ I just got through reading a book that describes how much of Asia is suffering today because for the past 40 or 50 years they've been so focused on left-brained activities like studying, test taking, science, ect....that they've lost their creativity and have looked to the West to INVENT things so that they can copy them and improve upon them. But the problem now is because they were beating America in test scores and science for so long, the West decided about 15 years ago to push for more left-brained agenda in their schools also like standardized test scores and STEMS programs. And that shift to a more left-brained cirriculum has led to a drought in creativity through out much of America now! Today's academic culture does a lot to stifle individual creativity BUT if one is aware of this, then they can participate in projects that help maintain it. ....or just take LSD like Mr Jobs, lol.

Part of healing and uplifting the Black community is breaking out of the old sexually repressive and patriarchal structure that was imposed on our people and figuring out a social structure that works for US. One of my partners actually helped me understand the pain so many women and especially Black women go through in this society. Not that I'm a super macho guy, but I just don't cry much. I think the last time I actually cried was when my father passed away, and before that when my mother passed years earlier. However a few years ago we were just sitting around after a meeting sipping on coffee and she told me something that for some reason almost brought tears to my eyes. She was telling me about how her and her 2 older brothers grew up and how she routinely got better grades than them and when they all went off to school her brothers got new cars for graduating college and all she got was a new DICTIONARY. Apparently her Preacher father didn't believe so much in girls getting an education as he did boys as he figured men should be the maintainers so the emphasis should be on THEM getting a good education and finding a good job. I know there are worse examples of sexism in the world, but for some reason everytime I hear that story it brings up a mixture of sadness and anger . All the years of hearing about how women were abused and killed in the Middle East...though sad...still didn't produce that type of reaction in me and I'm STILL not sure why. But everytime she tells me or another this story she says it with a laugh and talks about how it's just a small example of the routine sexist treament she's had to deal with for her 50 plus years in this world. I've heard similar stories....some even worse...from other Black women about how they were treated in their own families. She and other women around me have helped me to recognize the pain that woman, homosexuals, and even just passive men have had to deal with much of their lives in such a type-A society where it's all about strength and results. Often times men take things as simple as being able to walk to the store at 2 am to get a snack for granted not realizing that most women can't do this without the fear of being sexually assaulted or accused of being a prostitute walking the street at that time of night. From time to time I wonder do White people see the priviledges of being White the same way I see the priviledges of being a man? Or does it have to first be brought to their attention that they actually ARE priviledged, and then afterward receive a reminder from time to time to keep them in touch with the reality experienced by others?

"duck" bacon ?????

I don't know too much about the publishing industry but generally speaking....... In the infancy stages of most Black business....operating outside of the mainstream White infrastucture is not only possible but often times ESSENTIAL for your very survival! Regardless as to the field (art, music, writing, even sports....) when Black people initially try to start their businesses the "official" way, too often the over-regulation, start up costs, and other expenses suck them under the water and eventually ends up drowing them out of the business all together. When they go "underground" and build up a clientel as well as enough capital to go "legit"...they tend to stand a better chance. We've all heard the stories of Master P, Too Short and other rap artists who started off recording their own music and distributing it themselves out of the trunk of their cars. But I also knew Black barbers who had to go around giving people haircuts at home. I knew a few sisters who started off baking pies and cakes at home until they built up enough clientel and capital to go legit. Now REMAINING on the outside perimeters of the mainstream can be a bit of a problem. Outside of the jealousy and resentment you may encounter from those who hate the fact that you found away around the system.......also when you operate outside of the larger White infrastructure you often lose the LEGAL PROTECTION that it offers. You may open yourself up to having much of your material stolen with little opportunity for redress. But when your business is in it's embryonic stage, doing your own thing is usually a MUST. There are 2 types of people who don't do too well in this society: -Those who can't follow the rules. -And those who can ONLY follow the rules.

I've learned that UNITY is more than simply being in an organization and going through the motions or rituals just to secure your position. You're right, we have tons of organizations in the Black community and there are a lot of Black Frats and Sororities. And let us not forget about the BIGGEST Black organization....the Black Church. But there is a difference between being ORGANIZED and being UNITED. Organizations revolve around amassing a group of INDIVIDUALS (with their own goals and plans) together, where as unity involves all members of said group putting some or most of their individuality to the side and focusing ALL of their minds on a common goal or goals. The military is an organization and once you enlist you are a part of it, but you aren't considered part of a UNIT until you have gone through a basic training that drills in the "espirit de corps" that replaces your individual mind with the mind of the COLLECTIVE. Me and 74 other men and women could have all been going to the Greater Mt. Zion Missionary Bapitst Church for years and not be united. It's just 75 individuals with their own individual goals and plans ORGANIZED together every Sunday morning to go through the motions of singing and praying and a little charity giving. But if Rev. Chicken Wing ever gets a notion to buy up the raggedy building across the street and open up a soul-food restaurant, the first thing he'll have to do is produce a plan that will UNITE us on the common goal of obtaining the building. Us coming together to spend our time and money to raise more money and enventually buy the building and clean it out for business is a show of UNITY based on a common goal. Another illustration to further my point is the U.S. Congress. Heavily organized and bureaucratic, but definately NOT united. Like you said, it's not about simply having an organization....but what the organization is all about.

We used to think we'd never get a Black President. But look at us today, we're HALF way there....lol. It goes right back to UNITY. If AfroAmericans were as organized and united on a common goal as we ONCE were, or as White women and the Gay/Lesbian coalitions (who are also mostly White) are today.... President Obama would be just as focused on our issues as he is on theirs. The AfroAmerican community is suffering from a confidence problem that has been in part created by a corporate/conservative media constantly bombarding them with images that destroy their self esteem and tell them they aren't WORTHY of reparitory compensation like other "normal" human beings are. Often times Black people don't realize how much they are being indoctrinated by the U.S. media until they travel OUTSIDE of the United States and just spend an hour or two watching television in other nations. Even the LIGHTING and camera angles of most U.S. media outlets seem to do Black people injustice giving most of our people a dull dusky appearance.

With some people I've met online I've found myself spinning that to say: Well, if I can't get her in REAL LIFE....lol....then I'll settle for a cyber relationship.

Troy 　 Well trying to count the number of African sold into slavery is impossible and estimates will vary significantly. While we know African's sold/traded other African into slavery, few suggest that Africans are responsible for the brutal system. That responsibility rests with the europeans. That was my original point to Cynique in regards to trying to collect reparations from African nations. It's not that it didn't happen, it's that we can't VERIFY it nor can we verify their level of involvement in order to determine how much responsibility should be placed on them. But that reminds me of more interesting points: You know there were Black slave holders in the U.S. You also know many so called white people are actually Black. Indeed some estimate that most white people you have been in the US for more than a few generations some enslaved African Ancestry, should they be paid too? Well if you'll recall my views on race...... In MY OPINION a persons race should be determined by their phenotype more so than their ancestry. We know that both Blacks AND Native Americans owned slaves but their role was miniscule compared to that of Europeans. And as in the case with Africans who sold other Blacks....trying to prove which Black people alive today actually descended from Black slave owners would be a nightmare. Infact, it would be probably be even MORE confusing because many AfroAmericans are have both slaves AND slave owners (White and Black) in their ancestry....LOL. I don't believe reparations should come form individuals, states, or local municipalities. I believe it should come DIRECTLY from the United States, Puerto Rican, Brazilians, British, French, and other national governments who had a clear and proven role in the Trans Atlantic Slave trade. And if there are any corporations STILL around that existed and can be proven to have participated in the Trans Atlantic Slave trade....perhaps they should also be held responsible.

Lol, where is Sara? Is that her in the background to the left.....staring out the window?

Troy Pioneer1 would a sales receipt work for you? Seriously, what would qualify as proof for you? To be quite concise...NOTHING. There is very little history beyond 200 years in the past can actually be PROVEN according to my high standards for actual proof. However, solid evidence actually WOULD include a bill or document of sale or atleast an authentic document by a prominent slave trader about the exact procedure used to "buy" slaves from other Africans. Again, I'm not saying Africans didn't sell SOME others for enslavement to Europeans... My question is how many Africans can we prove were actually sold by other Africans that we feel confident enough to charge the African people for reparations? 　 So, are you suggesting people like me are stopping us from getting reparations? I'm down for unity and I have no issues with confidence. So I'm not sure that is it. Lol..... Ok, now all we have to do is find and convince about 9,999,998 other AfroAmericans to feel the same as you and I and we'll go to Washington D.C. It's as simple as that.

I too support free education as long as the students maintain 3.0 GPA Infact, they should offer all students free room, board, and give them a small allowance to take care of their clothing and daily needs...as long as they maintain a certain GPA. The costs of going to college far exceed tuition. You have to eat and have a place to stay and have money for books, stationary, lap tops, accessories and a host of other items not covered in the tuition. How many students can afford all of this while going to school full time? I'm hearing from a lot of younger people that not only do Universities charge high tution but even the community colleges charge extrodinarily high "lab fees" for those who take medical and science classes on top of their tuition rates. I've said it once and I'll continue to say it that college for the most part in America today is a well organized SCAM. Troy College should not be compulsory, but there should be quality free options available. The society and culture is FAR better off when the citizens are educated I agree that society is better off with an educated populous. However we don't need universities to accomplish this..... The knowledge of how to live a civil life can and should be taught in highschool (and at home). Infact, it WAS for the longest time in America until they took it out of the schools in the 60s. I'm sure Cynique could attest to the fact that HIGHSCHOOL students back in the 40s and 50s were better mannered and more professional and mature than COLLEGE GRADUATES today! Hell, most of the kids I run into who just graduated American universities can't even spell without spell-check, have sloppy hand writing, and can't even count the change they owe you back. Once the public educational system became intergrated, the powers that be decided to defund public education and let it go straight to hell.