NYC's NYPD cost the city and state alot of money but should it be more?

[richardmurray]

I thought about donald trump owing eighty three million to a woman already getting money from him for defamation over years. 

It occurs to me, black men of nyc  who have been in the prison system are settling for too low. 

 

IF defamation over ten years can get eighty three million then seven million is too little to someone falsely imprisoned for over two decades. 

 

CANNABIS

 

 

 

NEW YORK – New York City Mayor Eric Adams today celebrated the opening of Matawana Dispensary, the first Black woman-owned legal cannabis dispensary in Brooklyn. Building on an announcement in his State of the City address last month, Mayor Adams recommitted to supporting the equitable growth of the legal cannabis market and ensuring justice-impacted individuals are not undermined through an illegal market by working with Albany to grant local authorities the power to inspect and shutdown illegal smoke shops.

“For too long, Black and Brown communities have faced high rates of drug-related incarceration and have been denied opportunities to build wealth. As we close out Black History Month, New York City is taking steps to right the wrongs of the past by supporting equitable growth in the legal cannabis industry,” said Mayor Adams. “But it’s not enough to support the opening of new legal cannabis shops — we must also close down the illegal operators that threaten the success of legal shops and put the safety of our communities at risk. We have been clear in our call to state lawmakers to give us the power to shut down illegal smoke shops, and we will continue to work with Governor Hochul and all our partners in Albany who are fighting to give us this authority.”

“I am encouraged to see the quickening pace of legal retail dispensary openings in the city and thank our colleagues at Cannabis NYC and the Office of Cannabis Management for all that they are doing to support the growth of the local market,” said Deputy Mayor for Housing, Economic Development, and Workforce Maria Torres-Springer. “To fulfill our promise to trailblazers like Leeann and to the communities most impacted by drug-related criminalization policies of the past, we have to pursue two priorities in tandem — developing services and supports for cannabis entrepreneurs and businesses while working with the state to close down illegal operators.”

“As a Brooklyn native who left New York due to denied access to medical cannabis, this is a full-circle moment,” said Cannabis NYC Founding Director Dasheeda Dawson. “Not only do I have the honor of leading the city’s efforts in developing an equitable, sustainable legal cannabis industry, but we are bearing witness to history with the first Black, woman-owned cannabis dispensary opening in my home borough. This opening reflects the Adams administration's commitment to building economic opportunity in communities most impacted by prohibition-era policies, transitioning legacy to legal, and becoming the ‘City of Yes’ for the multibillion-dollar global cannabis industry.”

“The Sheriff’s Office will continue to work with our partner agencies at the direction of Mayor Adams to conduct inspections of unlicensed smoke shops so the legal market can thrive,” said New York City Sheriff Anthony Miranda. “The New York City Sheriff’s Office Joint Compliance Task Force to Address Illegal Smoke Shops has seized over $29 million in illicit products that were being sold in illegal shops in close reach of our children and houses of worship, and found 92 percent of the locations inspected to be in violation of the law. As we protect our children and families from these unregulated products, we encourage those that do participate in this market to shop at a licensed location where the products are regulated and safe.”

“I'm proud of Matawana Dispensary, not just as an emerging small business, but as a symbol of equity in New York City’s legal cannabis industry,” said New York City Department of Small Businesses Commissioner Kevin D. Kim. “Businesses like this propel New York City as the global capital for legal cannabis and boost our city’s overall economic resilience.”

“Draconian prohibition laws cost my family almost everything, but the plant itself is a healing herb,” said Matawana Dispensary Founder Leeann Mata. “When it became legal, I used it to treat my anxiety and created formulations that helped my mother with pain and helped her conquer an opioid addiction. I have been able to support elders with homemade CBD creams.”

The legalization of cannabis has allowed a new economy to emerge in New York state while addressing the harmful impact of the ‘War on Drugs’ on Black and Brown New Yorkers. Leeann Mata, owner of Matawana Dispensary, is an East New York native who previously taught at a New York City Department of Education public school. A first-generation New Yorker with family originally from Trinidad, Mata and her family members were justice-impacted through the previous criminalization of cannabis, but now are part of a new legal, cannabis economy. However, for New York City’s new cannabis economy and businesses like Mata’s to thrive, the city and state need to protect the legal market from illegal actors. The Adams administration is working with Albany to secure the authority for local municipalities to have explicit control over cannabis enforcement to finally end this public health and safety issue.

New York City is using every tool available to protect young people from dangerous, illegal cannabis and tobacco products, while sending a clear message that anyone helping these illegal, unlicensed shops to spread throughout the five boroughs will be held accountable. Coordinating with both city and state authorities, the Adams administration formed the New York City Sheriff’s Office Joint Compliance Task Force to Address Illegal Smoke Shops. This task force is dedicated to conducting enforcement against unlicensed establishments selling cannabis, cannabis-infused edibles, illegal vaping products, illegal cigarettes, and other illegal tobacco products. Since forming, the task force has imposed almost $90 million in penalties — including an estimated $29 million in illegal products seized and over $61 million in civil penalties issued. Since the start of the Adams administration, the city has closed 160 illegal businesses, conducted over 46,000 inspections, collected over $18 million in fines, and issued 17,000 summonses.

Additionally, the city has sent letters to over 408 landlords and owners of buildings across the five boroughs warning that they could be legally liable for the continued unlicensed sale of cannabis or tobacco products by their tenants, resulting in 15 evictions.

https://www.nyc.gov/assets/finance/downloads/pdf/23pdf/landlord-illegal-smokeshop-notice.pdf

Last year, the city also filed a federal lawsuit against four major distributors of flavored disposable e-cigarettes for unlawfully distributing exotically flavored disposable e-cigarettes to retail vape and smoke shops, convenience stores, and directly to consumers in New York City through online sales. Two distributors have agreed to stop selling e-cigarettes in New York City while the remaining two are facing a preliminary injunction from the New York City Department of Law.

“I'm proud to see Brooklyn's first Black woman-owned dispensary open in the heart of my district,” said U.S. Representative Dan Goldman. “With the opening of Matawana, Leeann Mata is making history. Her advocacy to improve the criminal justice system and example of restorative justice are truly admirable. As more licensed dispensaries open their doors, I look forward to more community advocates like Leann becoming small business owners.”

“Congratulations to Leeann Mata on the opening of her new small business. I am a champion for small businesses and M/WBEs, and I am especially proud that this is the first Black woman-owned business of its kind,” said New York State Assemblymember Jenifer Rajkumar. “Matawana will provide economic empowerment to those disproportionately affected by Draconian drug laws and generate tax revenue that will be invested in communities historically targeted for enforcement, including Ms. Mata’s home of East New York. In Albany, I will support her by passing my SMOKEOUT Act, which will shutter all the unlicensed shops that unfairly compete with legal dispensaries like hers.”

 

Media Contact

pressoffice@cityhall.nyc.gov
(212) 788-2958

https://www.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor/news/150-24/mayor-adams-fights-legal-cannabis-industry-celebrating-opening-first-black-woman-owned

 

[Pioneer1]

I'm not sure if there's a price high enough to pay for taking away an innocent person's freedom.

One of the problems not just in New York but all over the nation is because the public doesn't know how the Criminal Justice system is SUPPOSED to work and they don't know the difference between JAIL and PRISON.....a lot of our brothers are going into these jails and not coming out for years at a time as they await "trial".
Many of them are literally getting "lost" in the system.

[ProfD]

Black folks talk a good game when it comes to criminal justice reform.

 

However, Black folks on the inside of the  judiciary and law enforcement systems aren't helping our people.

 

Black folks will lock up and send their own people to prison faster than white folks do. 

 

Tethers (non-FBA/ADOS) are the worst offenders especially when it comes to punishing AfroAmericans. The problem is huge.

[Pioneer1]

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

Black folks talk a good game when it comes to criminal justice reform.

 

However, Black folks on the inside of the  judiciary and law enforcement systems aren't helping our people.

 

Black folks will lock up and send their own people to prison faster than white folks do. 

 

Tethers (non-FBA/ADOS) are the worst offenders especially when it comes to punishing AfroAmericans. The problem is huge.

When it comes to Blacks in law enforcement, it seems that those who are quicker to lock up other Black folks than their White colleagues often do it for 2 major reasons:

1. They do it consciously or sub-consciously to impress their White colleagues and show them that they are "down with" the team and don't pose a threat to the system, so that they can maintain their jobs and positions.

2. Interestingly enough, a lot of Black people in law enforcement are actually better at capturing Black suspect/criminals because of the commonality of culture and habits.
Where is a White cop may not know how a Black person who grew up in the hood thinks and thus may not be able to anticipate their moves of motives, another brother can.

Usually GOOD Black officers will know who needs to be locked up and off the streets and who doesn't.

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

Usually GOOD Black officers will know who needs to be locked up and off the streets and who doesn't.

Better Black law enforcement would insure that our people are not wrongfully arrested and convicted or mistreated or killed.

 

Unfortunately, there are too many Black law enforcement folks hiding behind the blue wall and happily collecting a paycheck.

[Pioneer1]

We need to start our own police force in various communities.

[richardmurray]

even points @Pioneer1 @ProfD 

tethers:) 

truth

Quote

I'm not sure if there's a price high enough to pay for taking away an innocent person's freedom.

 

Quote

However, Black folks on the inside of the  judiciary and law enforcement systems aren't helping our people.

 

[Pioneer1]

Well, the thing that is for sure is that in the condition it's in today....our community NEEDS the police.
Proper policing.

Somebody's gotta do it.
If we don't want to do it ourselves, then we shouldn't complain too much about the overall way White folks are doing it.

Somebody has to be the adults.
Everybody can't be the children running around looking for some "mommy" and "daddy" to assume the role of keeping the lights on, the water running, and food on the table.

If we don't want to do it....somebody else will.

[ProfD]

10 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Well, the thing that is for sure is that in the condition it's in today....our community NEEDS the police.
Proper policing.

Somebody's gotta do it.

Actually, each and every one of us can police our communities.

 

It starts by engaging with and talking to people who are most vulnerable.

 

When I'm out and about, I'll speak to and chop it up with young dudes who look lost and aimless or smell like weed. 

 

They're usually impressed to see a Black man well dressed and driving a nice truck and mostly importantly, willing to talk to them.

 

A lot of these people potentially headed to prison really need more love and to see and hear from solid Black men.  We are the police they should encounter more often. 

[Pioneer1]

ProfD

Well, many of the brothers on the streets need both the carrot AND the stick.
They need the New Testament love but many of them also need that Old Testament JUSTICE and JUDGEMENT that will light a fire on their ass if they don't get some "get right"....lol.

 

Love ain't the answer to correcting some of these brothers, because they don't respect it and will see it as weak.
They have to know that there is a strong and certain penalty to breaking certain laws like robbing and killing innocent people or molesting children.
...ain't no hand shaking and sitting down on the stoop to talk to them about that one, they're getting PUNISHMENT.

Like Dr. Umar Johnson says...some of these dudes on the street are beyond "talking too".
You call yourself talking to them to help them and give them advice and wisdom and instead of listening they're really SIZING YOU UP looking at your truck, your build, your age, and how easy it would be to "gank" you.

White folks don't want to take time to separate those who need love from those who need fear instilled in them....they'd rather just lock up niggas and be done with it.
But Black men who are intelligent and righteous will know how to properly separate the WHEAT from the weeds heads...lol.
 

[ProfD]

25 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Love ain't the answer to correcting some of these brothers, because they don't respect it and will see it as weak.

The love I'm referring to starts in the womb and continues through being raised by a solid mother and father and village.

 

25 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

You call yourself talking to them to help them and give them advice and wisdom and instead of listening they're really SIZING YOU UP looking at your truck, your build, your age, and how easy it would be to "gank" you.

That's why I keep stressing solid and strong Black men who can relate to them from a position of strength. No weakness.

 

Everything about me disarms a n8gglet. They're not going to try me for a number of reasons but mainly because m presence commands respect. 

 

Obviously, we have to do more than talk a good game. When n8gglets can see your success...it becomes like EF Hutton. They're going to listen even if it's only for a few minutes.

 

To be clear....some n8gglets are going off the cliff because they're already beyond redemption. They weren't loved properly from the jump.  Can't save them all.

 

25 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

White folks don't want to take time to separate those who need love from those who need fear instilled in them....they'd rather just lock up niggas and be done with it.

Allowing the system of racism white supremacy to handle our business is not a good look. 

25 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

But Black men who are intelligent and righteous will know how to properly separate the WHEAT from the weeds heads...lol.

For sure. More solid and strong Black men need to put in work by raising their own kids and securing the village too.

[Pioneer1]

ProfD

 

 

The love I'm referring to starts in the womb and continues through being raised by a solid mother and father and village.

Facts!
And somebody has to teach the mothers and fathers THEMSELVES so that they will be able to teach the children.
You're dealing with GENERATIONS of dysfunction.

One of the things I like about the Nation of Islam under Elijah Muhammad was that they recognized the destructive effects slavery had on the AfroAmerican family structure or lack there of, so part of their program was to RE-educate the Black woman and man on how to form and maintain a healthy family and give them their proper and respective roles and duties.
They actually FIXED a lot of the dysfunction that was introduced into our community.
 

 

However even if they are raised in a good home and taught in good schools, some people are born pyschopaths who will be criminal minded and destructive to society regardless as to how they were brought up.

 

A small percentage....but they do exist.
There needs to be a system in place to protect the rest of society from such individuals.
 

[richardmurray]

@Pioneer1 I oppose your position concerning  the black populace in NYC, maybe other black populaces in the usa need law enforcement in their modern condition. But the black populace in nyc in modernity and i argue in the past as well never needed the NYPD.

Outside the fact that the NYPD's own statistics have never suggested even close to one percent of the black populace in NYC is active in events

https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/6477-richardmurray/?status=1805&type=status

 A floor count of the black population in nyc is one million and six hundred and i know it is larger but lets go with that. 

ten percent of 1.6 million is 160,000, one percent is 16,000. 

Now harlem is 206,000 ... approximately half is black today. that is 100,000 and ten percent is 10,000 around the one percent mark of the whole. And one percent in harlem is 1,000.  Yes, the black populace in NYC is historically or commonly poor. The reasons why have nothing to do with the black populace in nyc. 

But , there has always been black people in NYC, like yourself, that suggested and today suggest a need of law enforcement which most black people in nyc know is 100% not true, even if they don't say it. 

White, the lawyer from the NAACP once said living in harlem, in the 1960s black people in harlem shouldn't riot as if black people rioting was common. 

Black people who talk like you pioneer exist in all black populaces. Every instance of murder or theft is turned into the rapture or some sort of apocalyptic scenario in need of attention. 

I repeat, NYC's black populace does not need and has never needed law enforcement. 

Black people selling drugs that people have to pay for was criminalized. Black people stealing in NYC was never as rampant as the white populace. Isn't as rampant as the non black people of color in NYC now. but the only populace in NYC that has  a large percent of itself talking about needing the NYPD is the least criminal acting populace which is the black populace in NYC. 

From the experience of me , my bloodline, who have lived in nyc for a time over one hundred years, NYC's black populace has NEVER needed law enforcement, but the black people in NYC who did utter and do utter the lie of a populace plagued by negatives are all traitors   whose damage to the black populace in NYC I wish I can undo.  

Yeah, lost your mother, lost your cousin, lost your grandpa, lost your friend, ok unfortunate, but in human allowance. I do not deny some black people have been harmed by other black people in every black populace in a city. But, in NYC over 95% of  black people have experienced no criminal activity by other black people towards them and the five percent that have need to is acceptable. No human populace is ever going to be absent some percentage of internal criminalization. It is inhuman to not have crime amongst humans. I wish the black traitors in NYC, again other places are not what I am speaking of,  would accept the bad hand of fate and stop judging the black populace in nyc based on their bad hand or their christian morals or their fortunate turns advantages. 

[Pioneer1]

richardmurray


 

I oppose your position concerning  the black populace in NYC, maybe other black populaces in the usa need law enforcement in their modern condition. But the black populace in nyc in modernity and i argue in the past as well never needed the NYPD.

 

 

Ha haaaa!
That was a good one.
You had me going for a minute thinking you were serious...lol.


With all of that killing and robbing going on in the various Black communities in New York that has been going on for DECADES....what do you mean they don't need the NYPD?

Maybe not the NYPD itself, but it certainly needs A police force to keep the city under control and keep the people safe.

Perhaps the Nation of Islam or the Panthers, but ALL Black communities in the United States need some form of law enforcement and public safety.

 

 

 

Outside the fact that the NYPD's own statistics have never suggested even close to one percent of the black populace in NYC is active in events

https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/6477-richardmurray/?status=1805&type=status

 A floor count of the black population in nyc is one million and six hundred and i know it is larger but lets go with that. 

ten percent of 1.6 million is 160,000, one percent is 16,000. 

Now harlem is 206,000 ... approximately half is black today.

 

Just half?

I heard that Harlem was gentrified but are you telling me that HALF of that neighborhood is non-Black???

That's hard to believe.

 

 

 

 

But , there has always been black people in NYC, like yourself,

 

Black people who got sense....lol.

Who got sense enough to KNOW we need police to keep the people safe so the children can walk the streets in peace.

 

 

 

 

Black people who talk like you pioneer exist in all black populaces. Every instance of murder or theft is turned into the rapture or some sort of apocalyptic scenario in need of attention. 
 

And you feel they DON'T???

You believe that if someone is killed or robbed that that shouldn't draw attention?

Nothing to see...keep walking???

 

 

 

"Now honey....don't you them folks no never mind!
They just killing people like they do every mornin'.
Mind ya own business.
You'll live longer."

 

 

 

 

I repeat, NYC's black populace does not need and has never needed law enforcement. 

 

You tell someone who's been raped, robbed, or brutally assaulted that the city doesn't need law enforcement.
I bet they'll have a different point of view.

 

 

 

From the experience of me , my bloodline, who have lived in nyc for a time over one hundred years, NYC's black populace has NEVER needed law enforcement, but the black people in NYC who did utter and do utter the lie of a populace plagued by negatives are all traitors   whose damage to the black populace in NYC I wish I can undo.  

Yeah, lost your mother, lost your cousin, lost your grandpa, lost your friend, ok unfortunate, but in human allowance.

Say what????

Man, I'm almost 100% positive that you've NEVER told a man who just lost his mother or son to violence that it's not worthy of attention or that it's simply just part of human "allowance".

I'm almost certain you haven't done that...lol.

 

 

 

 I do not deny some black people have been harmed by other black people in every black populace in a city. But, in NYC over 95% of  black people have experienced no criminal activity by other black people towards them and the five percent that have need to is acceptable.

 

I have quite a few friends from New York and MOST of them have stories about witnessing and being victims of crime.

However the same can be said about my friends from Detroit, Chicago, and St.Louis.

I'm not sure what friends you have there in New York who almost none of them have no experience of criminal activity from other Black folks....lol.

[richardmurray]

@Pioneer1

 

Quote

With all of that killing and robbing going on in the various Black communities in New York that has been going on for DECADES....what do you mean they don't need the NYPD?

Maybe not the NYPD itself, but it certainly needs A police force to keep the city under control and keep the people safe.

Perhaps the Nation of Islam or the Panthers, but ALL Black communities in the United States need some form of law enforcement and public safety.

The question to you is simple, what percentage will satisfy you?

I will explain. Lets go to the numbers. 

NYC is over ten million people. Ten percent is one million. One percent is one hundred thousand. Now lets say one hundred thousand people were murdered last year, which didn't happen.

This unverifiable website said circa 80,000 people died in NYC from all causes last year.

https://deadorkicking.com/death-statistics/us/new-york/2023/

This site also said NYC is circa twenty million people. It also gives the majority of deaths in NYC coming from health things that many suffer from and is not connected in my mind to the nypd or legal issues. Many people in the usa live unhealthy but their deaths are not nypd related. 

So what is the point between that point and the article I shared to you before, the percentage of deaths in nyc from violence is a fraction of a percent. Based on the unverified website plus my eyes and ears living in NYC. 

And that has always been true. More people in NYC die from being poor than violence. But again, the issue here isn't poverty but crime, injury from one citizen to another. 

So , if those that are harmed in NYC is a fraction of one percent, the question to you is...

what percentage is acceptable for you to not feel crime is an issue that needs the nypd? 100%? 

You can say 100% and I totally accept it and oppose your position. But, For me, NYC can go to 95% Five percent of people in NYC being harmed is a negative but with so many people I don't comprehend how that speaks emergency, or need of grand law enforcement. And from people who lived in NYC far longer than me, nyc was never the cesspool of violence suggested in media. 

Quote

Just half?

I heard that Harlem was gentrified but are you telling me that HALF of that neighborhood is non-Black???

That's hard to believe.

well strangified, the people coming in aren't betters just different. 

You have to comprehend, cost of living in nyc is too high. Many people laughed at the black POAJ guy but he was right, the rent is too high. But the real estate industry is very powerful. To break their influence isn't simple. NYC has such a multracial populace, which is not congruent on any racial quality outside human that no matter who you get, they can always finance another communities elected officials to protect them

Quote

Who got sense enough to KNOW we need police to keep the people safe so the children can walk the streets in peace.

From elementary to college i walked home from school every day. 99% of the time, no problems whatsoever. through parks, various avenues, in some regions may be not majority black. always some guys out in the street all over. I remember a commercial when i was a kid, a kid is black and running, through his region. and I laughed cause I never ran home. And when i became an adult I realized, and maybe this is you. Maybe someone in your clan got hurt , maybe a child of yours or relative you loved. but you guys are the one percent, not the 99%. I am in the 99% , nothing happened. I had all black friends, we played in the street, went to our various homes. Nothing happened. I realize some people have incidents, negative ones, but i think 99% of black people never have these prolbems but people like you, who admittedly may have been hurt, now want 100% , fear because of life experiences maybe. But those fears are falsely applied on the black populace and moreover are used to maintain negative governmental actions in the usa to black people. I am a black child of NYC, I have been everywhere, every burough. I have relatives in every burough as a child. Your wrong. I realize I have to stop saying no child, but 99% of black children had no problems. They didn't. 

Quote

And you feel they DON'T???

You believe that if someone is killed or robbed that that shouldn't draw attention?

Nothing to see...keep walking???

 

Well, let's reverse it. NYC, doesn't list how many children happily go to school every day and come back home smiling.  I have never seen local NYC media list the number of kids who don't get killed, haven't been bullied, haven't been raped [raping as in stealing a body, not forced fornication]. Why can't the people who aren't killed, who aren't robbed draw attention in NYC? It seems to me, people like you  clearly control media in NYC cause media in NYC don't see anything of value with those who are not robbed, not killed, not harmed, having fun, enjoying their lives in their populace. It seems to me, people like you in NYC are willing to keep walking or don't want any attention drawn , when a black child is happy to and from school , playing outside , with black men shirtless selling drugs hanging on a corner. 

I will accept in NYC drawing attention to those robbed or killed in the local media  if the quantity of those who are not gets an equal rate of NYC media's time. Which if course has never happened in NYC. So if less than one percent of the kids in NYC are getting killed then less than one percent of NYC media's time should be to them. 

Quote

You tell someone who's been raped, robbed, or brutally assaulted that the city doesn't need law enforcement.
I bet they'll have a different point of view.

And your later prose proves my earlier guess correct. It is unfortunate when someone gets hurt, but the black populace in NYC has existed for too long with those, including in the black populace, who turn the unfortunate scenario for a minority in the black populace of nyc into the status of the whole black populace in nyc and that to me has done far more damage and to be blunt, for the betterment of the black populace in nyc  need to stop

Quote

Man, I'm almost 100% positive that you've NEVER told a man who just lost his mother or son to violence that it's not worthy of attention or that it's simply just part of human "allowance".

I'm almost certain you haven't done that...lol.

 

well, not just lost, but I have an offline friend , went to school together. we are still friends I might add, he lost a family member of his. I am not going to give personal details. But, I told him that it was unfortunate, i am saddened for his lose as a friend, but it didn't warrant what his quite vocal support for the NYPD or various law scenarios. Your certainty is flawed. but I am lucky. I have true friends offline. I am used to talking to my offline friends regularly. and we talk about all sorts of issues to be fair, so this isn't a common situation. 

Quote

I have quite a few friends from New York and MOST of them have stories about witnessing and being victims of crime.

However the same can be said about my friends from Detroit, Chicago, and St.Louis.

I'm not sure what friends you have there in New York who almost none of them have no experience of criminal activity from other Black folks....lol.

Remember, the black populace in nyc is large. IT is the largest of any city in the usa. and with that comes the reality that, you and me and our different circles isn't some impossibility. It isn't a longshot. It is arithmetically very possible. And this goes to the larger issue in the black populace in NYC. I have said for a while, too many black people put on other black people in nyc their experience and again that is where it all goes wrong. Just because everybody died in your family from street violence side other black people, which has happened to some black people in nyc,  doesn't mean the existence of a black person in the same city where everybody in their family simply died of old age is impossible, ala me, and what that means is, what is then stop and frisk, the war on drugs, the war on crime when you have such a range. And to my earlier point, the issue is emphasis. And in NYC, the emphasis by media is flawed for me concerning the black populace. Media in NYC which is mostly white owned or controlled, always emphasis the negative minority, the one percent in the black populace, in nyc.

in the amsterdam news, i just got this morning @Troy Armstrong williams, whom you know I oppose , is still continuing his viewpoint similar to Pioneer:) about the black populace near the brink. But he is wrong. but again the question is, do you want 100% cause if that is what you want, that is an inhumane desire. 

 

And, to go away, Eric Adams, recently has suggested it is time to "Crack down" on immigrant violence. And why? as the city's immigrant populace grows and the media changes its tune on the black populace slowly but surely the NYPD need a new target, they i think want the asian but they aren't large enough, but the illegal immigrant populace is. The media is slowly criminalizing the illegal immigrant more and more. The problem is, many populaces, non black or white,  in NYC are used to the media narrative or government legislation to the detriment of or bad speak to the black populace that some in the non black are trying to slow this down. But, the nypd need statistics. That is how it works. In this very community i shared how the nypd literally use black people they pick up and the supposed crime they were picked up for as statistics for those crimes. The nypd don't calculate their wrongful or false actions, they count their successful or their assumed. This will happen with illegal immigrants i bet. It is an easy black book and in media i already saw, people [latinos any phenotype/asians any phenotype] already sound like pioneer, like their community is on the brink, which it isn't.

 

Poverty is just poverty. Yeah is it on the corner. Outside the store. Yeah it drinks, does some crack, meth. yeah it's loud. Sometimes harasses. But usually it doesn't harm. 

[ProfD]

As someone who grew up inner city, I totally understand the points @richardmurray is making here.

 

I know quite a few criminals and killers.  I know victims.  I've never been victimized. 

 

As I've mentioned before, there's a method to the madness when it comes to crime; surviving and avoiding it.  Police can't fix it.

 

The trick of the system especially in the form of media has conditioned many Black folks to either hate and/or fear themselves.

[richardmurray]

@ProfD  

and, in the year 2024 , at least in nyc, it is clear that the media's ways have trickled into all populaces. Again , you will be surprised how often I heard latinos- any phenotype, speak ill of illegal immigrants or fiscally poor latinos. 

And at the end of the day, what is the core idea? 

You are fortunate, so speak ill about those who are unfortunate in your race. whether phenotypical/geographic/gender or other. 

It serves the NYPD in their statistic claim. It serves media who likes to announce negativity even if most scenarios are positive. It serves the fortunate in various populaces who don't want to admit how they undercut their own populace supporting dysfunctional ideas. 

[Troy]

Well, I grew up in a NYC too, and I’ve been a victim of a crime several times indeed virtually everyone I know has been a victim of a crime or has had a family member who was

 

when I was a kid my family (two little kids and my mother) was robbed at gunpoint in the lobby our apartment building. On another occasion, a robber held a knife to my little sister‘s throat, and stole my mother‘s purse. This was in the stairwell of my building during that period virtually. Every one’s mother was mugged. Neither of these violent crimes were reported to the police. Often, when crimes were reported to the police, they were miss categorized. The NYC crime statistics as bad as they were, were grossly under reported.

 

People. In New York City would carry money in separate places on their person; one for the mugger. Generally it was just easier to give them something and get the robbery over as quickly as possible.

 

When I was a kid Street gangs would rob other kids all the time I knew kids who had their sneakers stolen right off their feet and who were beat up for walking in the wrong neighborhood. 
 

I won’t even get into the poverty, the burnout buildings, the street prostitution that open air drugs trade the corrupt cops and the filth.

 

It probably comes as no surprise that I know people who have been murdered one of my earliest memories was  an older kid involved with drugs, who was murdered. his body was dumped on the sidewalk in front of his building. 
 

People were was dying from overdoses dope fiends were all over the place.

 

As an adult in the mid 90s My car was stolen in New York City from right in front of the apartment I lived in. That was not uncommon. Many of my friends have had at least one car stolen. 

 

By the time, the 2000s came along crime in New York City was infinitely better. By the time I moved back to Harlem from brooklyn, there was crime, but it never touched me. 
 

my kids, who grew up in New York City, have never been robbed , beat up by rogue gangs. they've never had to fight in the streets or gotten jumped the way we did growing up.

 

I don’t know what world Richard, and the good professor grew up in, but the New York City of my youth was hellacious. The stress alone sent many adults to the bottle and early graves.
 

Of course, it was not all bad and I have many good memories for my childhood. The countless games we played in the street, Doing the freak in some recreation center party during the early days of hip-hop and more. 
 

But make no mistake. A great many lives were destroyed, cut short, adversely impacted by the crime of the city during a decades of the 70s through 90s.

[ProfD]

28 minutes ago, Troy said:

I don’t know what world Richard, and the good professor grew up in, but the New York City of my youth was hellacious. The stress alone sent many adults to the bottle and early graves.

As mentioned, I grew up in DC at the height of its dysfunction in terms of crime.

[Pioneer1]

4 hours ago, Troy said:

Well, I grew up in a NYC too, and I’ve been a victim of a crime several times indeed virtually everyone I know has been a victim of a crime or has had a family member who was

 

when I was a kid my family (two little kids and my mother) was robbed at gunpoint in the lobby our apartment building. On another occasion, a robber held a knife to my little sister‘s throat, and stole my mother‘s purse. This was in the stairwell of my building during that period virtually. Every one’s mother was mugged. Neither of these violent crimes were reported to the police. Often, when crimes were reported to the police, they were miss categorized. The NYC crime statistics as bad as they were, were grossly under reported.

 

People. In New York City would carry money in separate places on their person; one for the mugger. Generally it was just easier to give them something and get the robbery over as quickly as possible.

 

When I was a kid Street gangs would rob other kids all the time I knew kids who had their sneakers stolen right off their feet and who were beat up for walking in the wrong neighborhood. 
 

I won’t even get into the poverty, the burnout buildings, the street prostitution that open air drugs trade the corrupt cops and the filth.

 

It probably comes as no surprise that I know people who have been murdered one of my earliest memories was  an older kid involved with drugs, who was murdered. his body was dumped on the sidewalk in front of his building. 
 

People were was dying from overdoses dope fiends were all over the place.

 

As an adult in the mid 90s My car was stolen in New York City from right in front of the apartment I lived in. That was not uncommon. Many of my friends have had at least one car stolen. 

 

By the time, the 2000s came along crime in New York City was infinitely better. By the time I moved back to Harlem from brooklyn, there was crime, but it never touched me. 
 

my kids, who grew up in New York City, have never been robbed , beat up by rogue gangs. they've never had to fight in the streets or gotten jumped the way we did growing up.

 

I don’t know what world Richard, and the good professor grew up in, but the New York City of my youth was hellacious. The stress alone sent many adults to the bottle and early graves.
 

Of course, it was not all bad and I have many good memories for my childhood. The countless games we played in the street, Doing the freak in some recreation center party during the early days of hip-hop and more. 
 

But make no mistake. A great many lives were destroyed, cut short, adversely impacted by the crime of the city during a decades of the 70s through 90s.

I really felt this post.  

All jokes aside, these experiences and being able to not only survive but come out and thrive is just ONE of the reasons I admire and rocks with you bro.

You are living proof that some things....as you suggest in your other thread...may be PRE-DETERMINED and meant to be.




BTW......

While both are from down South, my Father decided to come to Detroit while one of his brothers/my uncle decided to move to New York.
Even back in the 80s he said the SAME THING about having money in several spots so that you can have SOMETHING to give to the muggers and junkies on the street if they accost you, lol.
 

[Pioneer1]

richardmurray

 

So , if those that are harmed in NYC is a fraction of one percent, the question to you is...

what percentage is acceptable for you to not feel crime is an issue that needs the nypd? 100%? 

 

0%
Because if just ONE person is a victim of a violent crime, that's one person too many and we should focus on ways to prevent it from happening again.

The key is to prevent violent crime WITHOUT taking away people's rights and oppressing them.

 

If YOU were a victim, you'd want someone to address it and not brush it off as just another miniscule statistic of such unimportance that it's not worth the attention.

 

 

 

 

You can say 100% and I totally accept it and oppose your position. But, For me, NYC can go to 95% Five percent of people in NYC being harmed is a negative but with so many people I don't comprehend how that speaks emergency, or need of grand law enforcement. And from people who lived in NYC far longer than me, nyc was never the cesspool of violence suggested in media. 

 

Well, even if you believe ONLY 5% of New Yorkers are affected by crime...

a ridiculously low amount but we'll go with that number for the sake of the discussion

...then my argument to you would be:

If you want to prevent that 5% from escalating to 15% and then to 50% of the population...then you better make sure you have effective law enforcement on the streets to keep the crime and violence in check and subdued.

 

 

 

well strangified, the people coming in aren't betters just different. 

You have to comprehend, cost of living in nyc is too high. Many people laughed at the black POAJ guy but he was right, the rent is too high. But the real estate industry is very powerful. To break their influence isn't simple. NYC has such a multracial populace, which is not congruent on any racial quality outside human that no matter who you get, they can always finance another communities elected officials to protect them

 

I was looking at the various latest demographic statistics of Harlem and it seems that some DECEPTION is going on.

 

As you said, most of them routinely list Harlem as about HALF Black.
However they say about 30% or about 1/3rd "Hispanic".

But most of those statistics fail to mention that the vast majority of Harlem's Latinos are actually Black themselves!

 

They seem to be only counting Black Americans as "Black" and counting Black Latinos and quite possibly Black Caribbeans and Africans as "other".

 

 

 

From elementary to college i walked home from school every day. 99% of the time, no problems whatsoever. through parks, various avenues, in some regions may be not majority black. always some guys out in the street all over.

 

What about the other 1%?

Within that 1% of the time a person could lose their life!

There are 365 days in a year.
You can see a person get shot 3 days out of the year which would be less than 1% of what you see through out the year....but it would have a TREMENDOUS effect on your life and peace of mind!
 

As Troy mentioned, boys fought way more in the 70s, 80s, and even 90s than they do now.
But if I counted all the fights I got in as a kid...it would definitely be less than 20.
If I threw in all of the violence I witnessed in Detroit from shootings, to stabbings, to beat downs....that too would be far less than 1% of EVERYTHING I witnessed growing up as a kid.
However I still remember much of it and it influences how I view society and human nature.
 

You're focused on stats and I'm focused on real life and the effects certain events have on people and society in general.

 

 

 

Well, let's reverse it. NYC, doesn't list how many children happily go to school every day and come back home smiling.

 

Because that's what's SUPPOSED to happen!
That's nothing new.

When they get home from school and their parents ask them what happened, they usually say NOTHING.
Why?
Because it's routine and they don't consider it new.

It doesn't have nearly the same impact on a child as seeing his friend get ran up on and stabbed to death in front of him.

Trauma and violence is meant to get your attention so that you can PREVENT it.

 

 

 

It seems to me, people like you  clearly control media in NYC cause media in NYC don't see anything of value with those who are not robbed, not killed, not harmed, having fun, enjoying their lives in their populace. 

 

Lol...
If people "like me" controlled the media in New York you'd have less violence and more nudity.

 

 

 

 

It seems to me, people like you in NYC are willing to keep walking or don't want any attention drawn , when a black child is happy to and from school , playing outside , with black men shirtless selling drugs hanging on a corner. 

 

So you want to see school kids hanging out with and smiling with niccaz on the corner slanging dope?

 

How about when one of those pushers try to push some of that dope on ONE OF those smiling children???
Would that be ok with you too?
Maybe get some 5th graders strung out on crack or heroin at an early age so he can have a customer for years???

How long do you think the smile would last on those kids faces after a RIVAL dope pusher from other block pulls up to challenge the ones on the current corner?

Real excitement, huh????

 

 

I will accept in NYC drawing attention to those robbed or killed in the local media  if the quantity of those who are not gets an equal rate of NYC media's time. Which if course has never happened in NYC. So if less than one percent of the kids in NYC are getting killed then less than one percent of NYC media's time should be to them. 

 

It's called NEWS for a reason.

It's not called OLDS....or NORMALS...but NEWS.

 

People are interested in things BEYOND the events they see every day.

 

Who wants to turn on television and see an old lady sitting on the toilet with her cell phone in her hand texting?
It happens far more than people getting killed.
According to you, THAT should be featured on television more so than heinous crimes.....lol.

 

"Geez....
The Mexicans are pouring across the border and we STILL haven't solved our negro problem.
Can't wait for Trump to hurry up and get back in"


 

 

 

And your later prose proves my earlier guess correct. It is unfortunate when someone gets hurt, but

 

"But" nothing.....the violence should be reduced and ideally ended.

Realistically you're not likely to completely end violence in this world as we know it, BUT you can do things to reduce it.
Ignoring it isn't one of those things however.

 

 

 

 

 

well, not just lost, but I have an offline friend , went to school together. we are still friends I might add, he lost a family member of his. I am not going to give personal details. But, I told him that it was unfortunate, i am saddened for his lose as a friend, but it didn't warrant what his quite vocal support for the NYPD or various law scenarios.

 

But did you tell him that his loss was just another statistic and that he shouldn't focus on the friend he lost but rather the dozens and maybe hundreds of other friends he still has?

 

 

Remember, the black populace in nyc is large. IT is the largest of any city in the usa. and with that comes the reality that, you and me and our different circles isn't some impossibility. It isn't a longshot. It is arithmetically very possible.

 

If you were born and raised in New York and claim that 95% of your Black friends and associates have never witnessed or been a victim of crime...not only do you live in a different "circle" than most New Yorkers but you live in a different reality, lol.

Almost like the Twilight Zone or an Alternate Reality where certain things are reversed.

 

I see things that could definitely be constituted as crimes on the streets every time I VISIT New York...lol.
But you claim you were born and raised there and rarely see it, lol.

 

 

 And this goes to the larger issue in the black populace in NYC. I have said for a while, too many black people put on other black people in nyc their experience and again that is where it all goes wrong. Just because everybody died in your family from street violence side other black people, which has happened to some black people in nyc,  doesn't mean the existence of a black person in the same city where everybody in their family simply died of old age is impossible

 

It's possible...but I'd have to ask what neighborhood did you grow up in where you did NOT witness street violence?
Park Avenue?

Some part of Queens near Long Island?

 

 

 The media is slowly criminalizing the illegal immigrant more and more.

 

I think they criminalized themselves when they came here illegally.

 

 

Poverty is just poverty. Yeah is it on the corner. Outside the store. Yeah it drinks, does some crack, meth. yeah it's loud. Sometimes harasses. But usually it doesn't harm. 

 

Usually is the operative term.
But what about the impact...and future consequences that result...when it finally DOES harm?

People USUALLY don't get robbed or shot....but it only takes one time to have long lasting effects not only on their bodies but their minds.
 

A man lives his life 30 years and never gets shot.
But ONE DAY...out of 30 X 365....he finally does.
Should he simply ignore THAT day he got shot and sweep it under the rug and focus on the other days, while he's being hauled away in the ambulance?

 

You seem to be more focused on numbers than on practicality.
 

 

 

[Troy]

6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

All jokes aside, these experiences and being able to not only survive but come out and thrive is just ONE of the reasons I admire and rocks with you bro.

 

Thanks man.  

 

5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

It's possible...but I'd have to ask what neighborhood did you grow up in where you did NOT witness street violence?
Park Avenue?

 

Funny you should mention that street.  I grew up on Park Ave -- that very same Park Avenue walking distance form the most valuable real-estate in the country.  Of course I had no idea, as a kids that fantastically wealthy people lived down the street from me. I lived on 113th street anything south of 96 street was "white-boy territory."

 

The stick-up kids used to go down there to rob the rich kids.  The funny thing is that I did not know this as a kid.  As an adult, white guys would tell me how they got robbed and Brothers told me usually older how they would rob the kids downtown.

 

One thing that was different when I was a kid in NYC versus what I read about Chicago, Philly and other Black northern cities now is the gun violence.  When I was a kid you might catch beat down, but you'd live to see another day. The chances of you actually getting shot was relatively small unless you really were about that life...

 

Gun violence over the past two decades is just sad -- another reason I'd hate to be a poor Black kid today.  I'm not in favor of these lax gun laws because of this.

 

 

[Pioneer1]

I'll be honest with you......
It SEEMS to me that the Black community today as a whole is LESS violent than what I remember back as a kid growing up.

You have POCKETS of our community that are intensely violent, but it just seems back in the 80s and 90s the community was more violent and more crowded.

It seems that really, the violence I used to see and hear about in the hood back in the 80s and 90s has SPREAD to the suburban areas and the hood is more quiet...lol.
It's more quiet because it's less crowded....or gentrified with middle class people of all races.

....that is...right up until 2020.
It seems that after the Summer of 2020....the hood got violent again, especially for little children.

Trump actually let a lot of VIOLENT offenders out and back on the streets after the Civil Unrest of 2020.

 

I don't think ProfD or richardmurray will like what I'm about to say next but.....

I think the '94 Crime Bill the Biden and Clinton got passed did a lot to lock up a lot of violent offenders and keep them off the streets.

I don't support it as a whole, but I understood SOME of why it was passed.
Unlike a lot of younger Black folks who are believing the hype...I REMEMBER the 90s and how violent it was and how so many Black leaders in the cities were begging the government to actually come in and do something to stop the violence!
So the White racists used that as an opportunity to enforce the ZERO TOLERANCE policies you see around the nation in schools and other institutions.

 

I didn't agree with the unfair sentencing of Crack possessors vs powdered cocaine possessors.
It was obviously racist.
However a lot of them violent ass niccaz who were wreaking havoc on the block NEEDED to be locked the hell up.

If Black folks want to play games and not assume the responsibility of protecting our neighborhoods from these clowns and criminals....SOMEBODY has to do something.

Bodies falling left and right and instead of DOING something about it....Negroes standing around in suits with their ties swinging from side to side as they yell and point fingers at eachother.

"Yall young folks need to stop killing eachother"
"Yall old negroes should have left us more resources"
"Listen yall, we need the police around here"
"Man, STFU....you a sell out for saying some weak shit like that.
We don't need no police around here...protect yourself!"

Just confusion from right to left.

So back in the 90s White folks stepped in and said, "Ok....we're locking ALL of you up"

 

[ProfD]

4 hours ago, Troy said:

When I was a kid you might catch beat down, but you'd live to see another day.

DC was similar before the crack epidemic. We had crews (gangs) but they only fought. Nobody got shot.

 

When drugs and money flooded the streets that changed the game. Gun violence has gone down a bit since those days.

 

Gun violence is still bad enough because these n8gglets aren't beefing and shooting over drugs and money.

 

These dudes are overly emotional nowadays. No fist-fights. Afraid if they lose the fight it will go viral on TikTok. 

[richardmurray]

@Troy I have continually made the argument that the black populace in NYC and the larger usa is large enough to have many different places. That has been my point when someone black says they grew up in hell, well someone else black in the same city grew up in heaven and that is not an impossibility and my only issue here is the idea from you plus  pioneer that it is somehow impossible that some black people had a brilliant time in the same city where you lived in hell. I tell you , people in my bloodline older than you Troy, never lived in a hell, and I was honest and said that others in my family had a similar experience to you. 

It is all NYC, the fact that it is impossible for that to be true for some black people leads to the larger issue. From schools to the condition of the street, i can tell you of various black experiences in NYC but speaking for myself  plus similars it was great, it was flat out great being in this section of the black populace in NYC. 

You grew up on park avenue. 113th street. to close to whites for me. 

You know what's is one of the odd things for me. I see more homeless, all colors but more importantly all ways now, than i did as a kid and harlem has so many whites. but it makes sense, the poorest flow nearest the money. 

 

 

To @Pioneer1

Quote

0%
Because if just ONE person is a victim of a violent crime, that's one person too many and we should focus on ways to prevent it from happening again.

The key is to prevent violent crime WITHOUT taking away people's rights and oppressing them.

 

If YOU were a victim, you'd want someone to address it and not brush it off as just another miniscule statistic of such unimportance that it's not worth the attention.

ok, again, i want it known, i know black people in nyc who said and say like you as well as black people who said and say like me.  In terms of policy or laws, i think what this situation proves is a key problem in the black populace. This  is unbridgeable, like I think many frictious issues in the black populace historically. 

 

 

Quote

If you want to prevent that 5% from escalating to 15% and then to 50% of the population...then you better make sure you have effective law enforcement on the streets to keep the crime and violence in check and subdued.

I have always opposed that positon. You want people to be happy, then you have to help them be happy. Wealth is the key, money is the key. But of course, this goes back to another simple prolbem in the black populace in the usa. All black people know whites run things so black empowerment or improvement will not happen easily and moreover, black people haven't been able to have access to the financial betterment that genocide to natives or enslaving a people who don't look like us brings. 

The national urban league suggest 200 years to equity and I think of james baldwin, whenone of his last speeches he said, when will it happen, for my children or their grandchildren. That rate is slow but it makes sense to me as black wealth in the usa has never been through financially opportune scenarios, again, let black people in the usa have access to the financial wealth garnered from slavery + genocide and we will jump up quick. That is how white people did it.  They were not working the land or working their own land.

https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/inside-city-hall/2024/03/08/national-urban-league-president-discusses-new-report-on-black-americans

so, you get black people who say, since black financial betterment, which is the true solution in fiscal capitalism to make anybody content is barred for most black people, you better simply stick dogs on the poor. Cause most black people have always been in the usa , the financial bottom. Which si what the enslaved are. 

I comprehend your position, i know you may not like my language but it is your position's reality. and one that has been uttered again in harlem by many blacks, most importantly by  blacks whose financial fortunes are ... better.

Quote

As you said, most of them routinely list Harlem as about HALF Black.
However they say about 30% or about 1/3rd "Hispanic".

But most of those statistics fail to mention that the vast majority of Harlem's Latinos are actually Black themselves!

 

They seem to be only counting Black Americans as "Black" and counting Black Latinos and quite possibly Black Caribbeans and Africans as "other".

well, in my experience the phenotypical association of latinos isn't a simple generaliztion witin the latin american popualce in the usa or outside of it. I will simply say i concur that the demographic data has challenges in nyc. 

Quote

 

You're focused on stats and I'm focused on real life and the effects certain events have on people and society in general.

from my view, you want to discount my real life because my real life is different than yours. But again, this isn't something new in the black populace in the usa. It is an old story.

Quote

 

People are interested in things BEYOND the events they see every day.

Earlier in your prose you suggested I don't care about reality or am ignoring reality but you just admitted that commonality is not worth to be shown cause it is common. I accept your position but I am sticking with mine. 

 

Quote

 

Realistically you're not likely to completely end violence in this world as we know it, BUT you can do things to reduce it.

but you said you wanted 0% so the truth is, you know 0% is unachievable but you want to reach it, that is a cycle to nothing. I choose ot live another way.

Quote

So you want to see school kids hanging out with and smiling with niccaz on the corner slanging dope?

 

How about when one of those pushers try to push some of that dope on ONE OF those smiling children???
Would that be ok with you too?
Maybe get some 5th graders strung out on crack or heroin at an early age so he can have a customer for years???

How long do you think the smile would last on those kids faces after a RIVAL dope pusher from other block pulls up to challenge the ones on the current corner?

Real excitement, huh????

Maybe  where you live or lived most illegal drug dealers want to hang out with children but not where I live. And, will i be ok with an illegal drug dealer trying to get a child? no. But if 99% of drug dealers are not trying to get children I can accept it. Again, 100% is impossible. And As the latino illegal drug dealing covers where children recently died in NYC showed, latinos didn't suggest the same as you to their populace when a child was found dead by their drug dealers negligence or uncaring. why? it isn't a common thing.  Ar epeople unhappy or upset, yes, but it isn't a symbol of their community though i know.. we all know many drug fronts exist in nyc. 

Quote

I think they criminalized themselves when they came here illegally.

this issue we have gone back and forth with proves media not actions matter. It doesnt matter who commits a crime it matters how media present it. The real estate industry burned the bronx to the ground, a public secret all in harlem or the bornx knew, the law enforcement knew, the fire department knew, but the media said it was black people, black people who share your views said the wild criminal blacks, and that is that. 

Quote

It's more quiet because it's less crowded....or gentrified with middle class people of all races.

and less poor. again, black people in the usa collectively have more welath today, wealth all earned nothing through slavery, genocide, tricks, even the illegal money is earned cause we never controlled the sources of any drug, which is where the real money is, dealers is what 95% of black illegal drug traffickers are. but to the point, it is more money. money in fiscal capitalism breeds more contentment cause who is more content when they can't pay rent, buy food, pay for electricity, buy clothes.  And again, black people, the majority come from enslaved bloodlines that had to literally work every generation to make money, no shortcuts. better happiness helps. but why should most black people be happy in the usa, historically at the least?

Quote

 

I don't think ProfD or richardmurray will like what I'm about to say next but.....

one thing, when any of you on this platform speak your truth i see it as your truth, i can either oppose it, or concur to it, or have a neutral view, but it isn't a matter of like or dislike. My question is not to your position or truth, but to the larger village. You , and I sadly have to repeat this constantly, like Troy or others I have met offline, offline, have said similar. I believe I said that so many times in this one comment stream, I will promise myself not to say it again. But I also said tha tme side others said different and the larger point is, these positions don't have a bridge so this maintians the deep issue in the black populace in the usa , which it has always had, starting with the usa's founding where again, most free blacks fought against the creation of the usa,  the minority of free blacks fought for the creation of free blacks, and the majority of the black populace, the enslaved, hated whites plus the usa and only wanted to kill whites and leave the usa but wee shackled to whites or the usa. Three positions that don't fit each other and that heritage of positons that don't fit each other remains strong.  

[Pioneer1]

richardmurray

 

 

I have always opposed that positon. You want people to be happy, then you have to help them be happy.

 

1. You've always opposed WHICH position?
The position that we should prevent crime from escalating?

 

2. I want DECENT AfroAmericans to be happy.
I don't necessarily want thugs, criminals, and psychopaths to be happy.

Part of their happiness involves living in peace and being able to walk the streets safely.

 

 

 

 

 Wealth is the key, money is the key. 

 

In some cases.
In other cases SECURITY is the key to happiness.

What good is having a lot of money but you're constantly worried about getting robbed or kidnapped for it?

 

 

 

 

 

But of course, this goes back to another simple prolbem in the black populace in the usa. All black people know whites run things so black empowerment or improvement will not happen easily and moreover, black people haven't been able to have access to the financial betterment that genocide to natives or enslaving a people who don't look like us brings. 

We HAVE had access to SOME financial betterment but a lot of poor decision making has taken place over the decades.
Like selling a lot of the land we had down South to move to larger cities or move up North.
Also giving up much of the businesses that we owned during Segregation.

 

 

 

 

 

The national urban league suggest 200 years to equity and I think of james baldwin, whenone of his last speeches he said, when will it happen, for my children or their grandchildren.

 

The goal shouldn't be mere "equity" with Whites but generating as much wealth as our potential allows.
Which would theoretically mean FAR MORE than Whites or any other group outside of ourselves.

 

We should be trying to generate as much wealth as we can...not simple trying to be "equal" with people who aren't worthy of being equal to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 That rate is slow but it makes sense to me as black wealth in the usa has never been through financially opportune scenarios, again, let black people in the usa have access to the financial wealth garnered from slavery + genocide and we will jump up quick. That is how white people did it.  They were not working the land or working their own land.

 

White people generated their wealth in a NUMBER of ways...Slavery was just one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

well, in my experience the phenotypical association of latinos isn't a simple generaliztion witin the latin american popualce in the usa or outside of it. 

 

True.
However based on my observations, unlike most of the United States...in New York City most Latinos that I've met and others that I've presumed were Latino were either Black or Mulatto.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

from my view, you want to discount my real life because my real life is different than yours.

 

I don't want to discount it.
However I do QUESTION it and find it someone odd that you were raised in a city where most others that I've talked to have observed and experienced high crime but somehow most of it has escaped YOUR radar and those you grew up around....lol.

 

 

 

 

 

 

but you said you wanted 0% so the truth is, you know 0% is unachievable but you want to reach it, 

 

Let's be clear....

I said 0% is the only ACCEPTABLE percentage of people who are victims of violent crime for me not to CARE or feel that NYPD should be involved.

 

In other words...
If ANYONE is a victim of a violent crime, we should care and get the authorities involved in it's solution and future prevention.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe  where you live or lived most illegal drug dealers want to hang out with children but not where I live.

 

Where I lived....some of the drug pushers WERE children, lol.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 And, will i be ok with an illegal drug dealer trying to get a child? no. But if 99% of drug dealers are not trying to get children I can accept it. Again, 100% is impossible. And As the latino illegal drug dealing covers where children recently died in NYC showed, latinos didn't suggest the same as you to their populace when a child was found dead by their drug dealers negligence or uncaring. why?  it isn't a common thing.

 

Or perhaps among some Latinos, dead children in drug infested areas are TOO COMMON so they no longer care or see the need for restrictions and laws to combat it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

this issue we have gone back and forth with proves media not actions matter. It doesnt matter who commits a crime it matters how media present it. 

 

True to a certain extent.
So wouldn't that mean WE should be trying to control the media also?

 

 

 

 

 

 

The real estate industry burned the bronx to the ground, a public secret all in harlem or the bornx knew, the law enforcement knew, the fire department knew, but the media said it was black people, black people who share your views said the wild criminal blacks, and that is that. 

 

Why didn't the BLACK MEDIA oppose that narrative with the truth?

 

 

 

 

but why should most black people be happy in the usa, historically at the least?

 

You may as well ask why should most people PERIOD be happy..lol.
Human beings generally find ways to be happy and dance, sing, and have sex regardless as to what they're going through.

 

[ProfD]

23 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I don't think ProfD or richardmurray will like what I'm about to say next but.....

I think the '94 Crime Bill the Biden and Clinton got passed did a lot to lock up a lot of violent offenders and keep them off the streets.

Not a position to like or dislike. 

 

The facts are:

 

1) Black communities had been flooded with drugs since the late 1960s. Drugs were a poison pill to destroy Black folks in more ways than one.

 

2) The 1994 crime bill did lead to mass incarceration of Black folks. The majority of whom were non-violent offenders. 

 

That 1,2 punch combo did exactly what white folks intended since the days of POTUS Nixon.

 

Interestingly, we do not see or hear the same tactics being applied to a war against drugs in white communities.

 

Crystal meth has never been criminalized as harshly as marijuana and cocaine.

 

Fentanyl and opioid addiction are supposedly a huge problem for white folks but there's no harsh punishments being handed down on them for trafficking in it.

 

I do hear the media talking heads blaming illegal immigrants for bringing drugs into the USA.

 

White folks have always been the biggest drug dealers in the world through the pharmaceutical industry and illegal drugs too. 

 

There's no shortage of crime and violence and death on the hands of white folks. Yet, they aren't being punished as harshly. 

 

The main trick of the enemy i.e. white folks is getting Black folks to hate and destroy themselves by any means necessary. 

[Pioneer1]

ProfD

 

 

1) Black communities had been flooded with drugs since the late 1960s. Drugs were a poison pill to destroy Black folks in more ways than one.

 

Absolutely!

 

2) The 1994 crime bill did lead to mass incarceration of Black folks. The majority of whom were non-violent offenders. 

 

Absolutely!
AfroAmerican youth were already being mass incarcerated since the late 70s but that crime bill EXCELLERATED it.

However, another FACT is....while the majority of those locked up were non-violent offenders-

 

*or more specifically, those who weren't CONVINCTED and SENTENCED for violent crimes; because most of those "non-violent" offenders were sentenced under the mandatory Crack laws and many if not most dope dealers and pushers  DO engage in various levels of violence and exploitation in their line of work whether they are actually caught and arrested FOR that violence or not*

 

-many of those who were locked up WERE violent offenders who were raising hell up in the hood and needed to be snatched up off the streets anyway.

So that "drag net" laws got a lot of thugs off the streets.
A mix of both pain and joy.

You have to admit that there was a NOTICEABLE difference between the violence in the hood PRIOR to the mid-90s and AFTER the mid-90s right up to the year 2020.

 

 

 

 

That 1,2 punch combo did exactly what white folks intended since the days of POTUS Nixon.

 

Yes....however many BLACK FOLKS intended for that to happen too because I remember when a lot of Black leaders and politicians were ASKING Clinton and the government to do something about the dope and violence plaguing the communities.

 

Even some of the preachers were getting up in the pulpit and having mass rallies demanding that the government do something about it.

Infact, one of the points Clinton promised if elected president was to add 100,000 more police on the streets to stop the crime and killing....and a lot of Black folks voted for him FOR THAT.

 

At that time crime and fighting crime wasn't necessarily SEEN as code words for "incarcerating Black folks".
Black folks who were stressing that someone be "tough on crime" truly meant it.

 

I remember some Black folks were even calling for the National Guard to patrol some areas.

 

 

 

 

Crystal meth has never been criminalized as harshly as marijuana and cocaine.

Fentanyl and opioid addiction are supposedly a huge problem for white folks but there's no harsh punishments being handed down on them for trafficking in it.

 

Facts.
But is there as much VIOLENCE associated with crystal meth and fentanyl as there was and still is with crack and cocaine?

Most White folks I've seen who do that shit just walk around in some dirty shitty pants sitting on the sidewalk or at a park staring or chewing and babbling.
...or begging for money and calling you "brother" every other word, lol.

 

Don't get me wrong....there IS a level of violence involved.
However when you go to these trailer parks dominated by White folks or even on that famous street in Philadelphia...Kensington Ave..lol...you see THOUSANDS if not MILLIONS of White folks on heroine and meth, but are they rolling around with rags on their head doing drive-by's and running eachother off corners with AK's???

Most of them shoot up, ball up into a corner, and start crying about some shit that happened to them in the past.

But when cousin Deonte takes a hit of that Crack does HE ball up in a corner and start crying....lol???

No....YOUR ass better stay away from him before he has YOU in a corner crying....lol.
 

Some of that mess going on in the hood ain't got a damn thing to do with drugs but just youth being crazy.

If there were NO drugs involved, some of them would be fighting and killing eachother....just because.

Which is why I said we need to police OURSELVES.

 

 

 

 

White folks have always been the biggest drug dealers in the world through the pharmaceutical industry and illegal drugs too. 

Facts.
And I personally don't have a problem with people dealing drugs to those who want them as long as the activity and the behavior of the drugs being used are CONFINED to the sellers and users.

I take issue when:

 

1. You start pushing the shit on children who don't even know what it is.

 

2. You start shooting up the neighborhood and robbing people because you're in a fight with a rival crew OR you need money to feed your habit.

 

That's when I say....get the police involved or take care of it ourselves.

But again, SOMETHING had to be done and something HAS to be done.

Ain't nobody trying to live in a fucking jungle where you're hold up in your house afraid to look out the window.

I'm not going to blame ALL of that on White racists.

 

 

 

 

 

There's no shortage of crime and violence in death on the hands of white folks. Yet, they aren't being punished as harshly. 

 

Keep it real bro....
White folks wouldn't allow a FRACTION of the shit we allow go on in THEIR communities before they take action.

 

Yes they kill eachother.

They kill....much more than our people...but when it gets to levels that's happening in many AfroAmerican communities and higher then  its called WARFARE.

If White folks start killing like that, they usually declare war, put on uniforms, and go all out like you see in Russia and Ukraine.
But when it comes to regular residential society...I don't know of any White community that would allow teenagers with gats to just "take over" the block.
White men would get together and burn every damn dope house in the neighborhood and drag the White teenagers engaging in it outside and do a public lynching before they allowed things to get that bad in their communities.

Some of these niccaz are just shooting and killing with no clear objective besides personal beefs.
It needs to be ENDED....not made excuses for or pointing to others doing it as if that somehow justifies it.

 

 

 

The main trick of the enemy i.e. white folks is getting Black folks to hate and destroy themselves by any means necessary. 

 

You're correct.
But how is that trick or demonic plan countered?

 

I say you must have a COUNTER PLAN to raising up  an army of strong and intelligent Black men who will police our community ourselves and keep our society on the right course.

 

Letting shit go to hell in a handbasket and then saying

 

*cough*   *cough*

"Well.....ALL of it is the fault of White folks anyway.
You know THEY brought the shit in to the hood in the first place so....so fuck it.
Nothing we can do about it"

....ain't a viable "plan" in my opinion, lol.
 

[Troy]

Again the period of time I’m talking about is the 70s through the 90s in New York City
 

When my mother said when she moved into the housing project it was beautiful. There were flowers growing on the lawns, and the whole property was well-maintained back then I believe it was only opened to married people, and someone had to have a job. I believe these rules changed, and as a result, the class of people changed.
 

NYCHA also failed to maintain the properties very well. I read recently that the projects were in such a state of this repair that the city could no longer afford to maintain them, and are now looking at options to allow private ownership.

 

many who lived in the projects, believe that this was always a plan to private the apartments kick the poor people out, the gentrifiers would love nothing more than the happen, or to have to build and completely torn down 

 

As an adult, I lived in Harlem for 17 years and it was far better than it was when I was a kid, so I’m not talking about Harlem in the after the turn of century. 

 

New York City in the late 20th century had more than 2,000 murders a year the city was about to default financially and crime and filth and graffiti was everywhere and all of this was worse in  poor communities. 
 

By the time I was raising kids in Harlem, the crime rate was down significantly the murder rate was down by a By the time I was raising kids in Harlem, the crime rate was down significantly the murder rate was down by an order of magnitude the subways Were bar cleaner and safer
 

When I was a kid, prostitution and drugs, Rained supreme in Times Square, the movie houses played triple X movies today. It is family friendly more like Disney.

look, I don’t doubt that some people lived very well in New York City in the 1970s 80s and 90s but they had to have some serious paper. If you grew up in an impoverished neighborhood During that time, I do find it hard to believe that one would have no complaints unless they’re entirely delusional or in incomplete denial.

 

To answer the main question of the post however, when I was a kid, the police were more harmful than helpful. Indeed, we didn’t even like the police. Giving them more money. Would not have made things better.

 

I don’t think the police need more money. They just need to be better at their jobs. I also wonder how much of the budget for the police department go to paying into their very generous pensions, which allows them to retire in their early 40s.

[richardmurray]

@Pioneer1

Quote

1. You've always opposed WHICH position?
The position that we should prevent crime from escalating?

 

2. I want DECENT AfroAmericans to be happy.
I don't necessarily want thugs, criminals, and psychopaths to be happy.

Part of their happiness involves living in peace and being able to walk the streets safely.

Quote

In some cases.
In other cases SECURITY is the key to happiness.

What good is having a lot of money but you're constantly worried about getting robbed or kidnapped for it?

 

I apologize for being unclear

We differ again in that I want all people in the phenotypical race I define as black to be happy. I have no idea who are the decent blacks. 

Quote

We HAVE had access to SOME financial betterment but a lot of poor decision making has taken place over the decades.
Like selling a lot of the land we had down South to move to larger cities or move up North.
Also giving up much of the businesses that we owned during Segregation.

 

What is the largest percentage of black people that you think owned land in the south from the end of the war between the states to the 1960s?

I will speak for NYC,  the nyc government controlled plus run by whites made sure all the black regions in nycare used for for projects which damage the black populac ein said regions. When the harlem empowerment zone led by bill clinton happened , many black owned businesses in harlem applied, but only one was granted.  no black business was given up but per the law you say you respect so much or feel is so badly needed the black busniness were legally pushed out of existence and the black populaces, did what you always suggest and moved on with their our lives legally. 

Quote

However I do QUESTION it and find it someone odd that you were raised in a city where most others that I've talked to have observed and experienced high crime but somehow most of it has escaped YOUR radar and those you grew up around....lol.

You find it odd cause it is not common with your peers but i don't find you odd , not because of I think my scenario majority but because I comprehend the largess of the black populace in nyc. again, the black populace in nyc is large, any single black person side their offline communiques, starting to myself, does not define it. 

I know their are black people born and raised in nyc who hae lived in a segment of the black populace where the worst fate has occured, this is the truth. But it doesn't mean it is the common or majority in the black populace of nyc, and definitely not indicative of all. 

Did you know the black populace of chicago si deemed 230,000 while the black populace of nyc is two million. that is a significant difference. nyc's black populace could cut away a parallel count from the black populaces of boston/detroit/chicago230,000/atlanta 190,000/new orleans and quite a few other cities  and still have half of its size. Yes, pioneer, you talked with your offline peers. Ok, very true, but you plus troy's lives or connections doesn't mean nyc's black populace is too small to include mine. 

 

 

@ProfD  I thought about population sizes. The law enforcement agencies throughout the usa are the real drug pushers in all populaces but definitely the black and i think about a detroit a chicago a new orleans. Their populace is so small, that such an agenda will have a more potent negative influence. I think of new orleans. I have been fortunate to know people from there and they have spoken of deterioration, and that is a nice word. but whn the white government of nw orleans, of . .louisiana makes their plans. Remember they busted a huge ring of black law enforcers in new orleans pushing illegal drugs and my point isn't about the government of new orleans or its parts like the new orleans law enforcement or louisiana but how the black populace of new orleans has a larger percentage of the total population to the city it is based in than most black populaces, its true quanitty is so small that the damage of negative actions from white government historically or modernly saturate a larger portion of the black populace in said city. in parallal, even though nyc's black populace has never been the majority in nyc  it is quite large and nyc's various plans against the black populace have never touched the whole black populace.  

Thank you, your  whole comment  [ https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/10861-nycs-nypd-cost-the-city-and-state-alot-of-money-but-should-it-be-more/?do=findComment&comment=65944  ] made me see something. I advise all to read the whole comment but I want to focus on one point

Quote

However I do QUESTION it and find it someone odd that you were raised in a city where most others that I've talked to have observed and experienced high crime but somehow most of it has escaped YOUR radar and those you grew up around....lol.

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and may i add,

 

less importantly while first, it is a problem in the same way drinking liquor was for whites, that was why prohibition happened. Prohibiton stated in the roaring twneties you know. The same decade which is lauded in media as a high time of money is also the prohibiton era that supposedly is mired under the drunks, which was it? it can't be both.  Some whites, like some blacks, look at their own populace and criminalize, cause you see poor, cause you see those on drugs and yes, drinking liquor is a drug act. so... And , it is an interesting comparison that like the white religious segment of the white populace's heavy support of prohibiton the black religious segment of the the black populaces fervent, fanatical support of the war on drugs the war on crime, which is still strong in said segment, neither action is honest to the majority condition of either populace. 

 

More importantly while second, the white populace never has a large percent of itself, ala prohibiton, that decries itself a failed populace in modernity for white people who do wrong to whites. In NYC ,in modernity, not 1960s, but, 2000s,  the white asian mob, herded and herds its own people into various tenement buildings, like our forebears in the white boats, and caused untold sickness , maybe even death, but the white asian populace has never made a big deal of their underworlds quite negative acts towards its own. Again in modernity, i don't know how many mestizo , latin american, businesses act as drug fronts with multiple daycare centers being publicly uncovered now. Causing the harm or death of mestizo children. But does the mestizos say in spanish the world is falling, do they amrch when a mestizo child is murdered by their own. No, they move cause it isn't the majority situation. Most humans , don't want negativity, but judging your own populace based on extreme minority behavior is dysfunctional but only the black dos populace in the usa today has suc ha strong segment of itself doing this. 

[richardmurray]

@Troy

 

Quote

 If you grew up in an impoverished neighborhood During that time, I do find it hard to believe that one would have no complaints unless they’re entirely delusional or in incomplete denial.

If I said i had no complaints i apologize, i had complaints growing up but it wasn't about my black neighbors, my complaints are to the white city government, the white populace and their agents of allcolors the nypd. . I always felt safe as a child, walking to my school, and back. Maybe I was lucky. My cousin lived in the south bronx, and he had worse scenarios but the funny thing is his region is mostly mesitzo, not black. not negra. and you know all people in nyc have complaints throughout the entirety of nyc's history, but are the complaints about their populace in the region they live in? 

 

Quote

NYCHA

the problem is simpler. the projects were never started to be permanent homes, the first projects were for whites only but they never were for permanent living even when white only. The idea was, you go into the project so you are not on the street, as nyc's populace was getting larger, this was to stop what happened in the ellis island years so to speak. But, robert moses was trying to explain to people the projects needed to be in their original planned location upstate ny. But, the whites upstate new york new that a larger populace always brings problems to any city at any size so they lobbied and the projects were placed in nyc, whites only. but moses knew that NYC's populace was going to explode in number with many non whites, and he knew that nyc's financial reality was very poor going forward for the masses of non whites or the fiscal poor regardless of phenotype. So having a plan designed for temporary living used as permannt in a city with small financial growth for its poor. Notice I didn't say nyc's rich would get poorer. He knew the wealthy of nyc were going to explode in wealth but the projects is for the poor and as time has proven, nyc has a terrible financial reality for its poor. while nan ever growing poor.  who are forced to go into illegal financial means. remember, in the shelters of nyc is countless cases of assault or violence between the people in as well as countless case sof abuses by the government agents within, just like rikers for that matter. My summation is that NYCHA was bound to fail the second it grew into a permannet home situation. It was always bound to fail. Federal money is what made most of the projects in the first place, and federal money is never constant for such things as it shouldn't because the 50 states have competing interest with each other and thus. sooner or later the federal government stops spending. The modern example is school food, libraries, eric adams is cutting and people are complaining but while i don't care for adams policies he is correct , NYC didn't pay for the covid-19 era municipal activities it was the federal government bt the federal government is gone now as it does and nyc can't support these activities on its own financial bearings. Let alone the fact that recent news shows many agencies of nyc have been commiting crimes for years concerning money and .... NYCHA was bound to fail. But the biggest nycha houses in manhattan are going to be remade  while the people leave. It will take a long time, but the plan is for the people to leave to a new building temporarily and then their nycha houses will be rebuilt "better" and then they come back. 

The people had the chance to vote to go private or remain city owned and a third option , i think one may have chosen the private route, but most voted to retain the city owned. 

Quote

To answer the main question of the post however, when I was a kid, the police were more harmful than helpful. Indeed, we didn’t even like the police. Giving them more money. Would not have made things better.

 

I don’t think the police need more money. They just need to be better at their jobs. I also wonder how much of the budget for the police department go to paying into their very generous pensions, which allows them to retire in their early 40s.

thanks for bringing it back and i apologize for being unclear. the main point in this post isn't about funding to the nypd, but settlements from black people to nyc based on harm done to them by the nypd 

The most recent black man to get a settlement from nyc was a few weeks ago, around seven million, for years in prison starting when a child. But,a white woman by the legal system of nyc, was awarded for defamation , eighty million so my point is while a nyc media outlet said the nypd costs nyc billions in settlement money per year, I argue based on the settlements, an the public cost of defamation,  NYPD actually cost NYC more but NYC are being "allowed" to underpay. I argue the bare minimum settlement by any black person incarcerated as a child has to be eighty million which will force nyc to pay a measure a quarter or more of a  trillion dollars. 

The settlements are too low by black people. Eighty million. if donald trump with defamation can warrant eighty million then nyc for a tyrannical nypd can warrant at least the same. The brother who just got seven million is missing seventy three million for me. All the black people in shetlers or rikers who get hurt under the governent of NYC, have to ask for more, based on simple financial relevance. 

If guards in rikers nearly kill a man, that has to be eighty million.  bare minimum for me. I comprehend how powerworks, and so I know things will not go as I suggest, but it is clear that NYC is underpaying for the crimes of their law enforcement agencies or other. 

[Pioneer1]

Troy

 

When my mother said when she moved into the housing project it was beautiful. There were flowers growing on the lawns, and the whole property was well-maintained back then I believe it was only opened to married people, and someone had to have a job. I believe these rules changed, and as a result, the class of people changed.

 

I heard similar from my older relatives who came up from down South and moved up to Detroit.

I didn't hear the part about having to be married, or having to have a job, but they told me single men could get a place in the projects back in the 50s and 60s.

At some point, that changed to where only women with children could get a place.

 

They also said that the projects were nice and considered a STEP UP from the rat infested tenements and slums that dominated so much of the city until much of it was torn down.

 

 

 

 

NYCHA also failed to maintain the properties very well. I read recently that the projects were in such a state of this repair that the city could no longer afford to maintain them, and are now looking at options to allow private ownership.

 

That too.
What I found interesting when I went to Europe and when I used to go to Canada a lot was that those nations had public housing projects too but unlike in the United States, they MAINTAINED them and kept them repaired and clean for their residents.

 

I went to Europe about 20 years ago.
I've heard that today Western Europe has let IT'S public housing collapse too as well as Canada.

No doubt the demographic shift from mostly White residents to mostly Black and Arab residents has contributed to them allowing their public housing to deteriorate the same as the U.S. has.
They say in Eastern Europe where there is far less immigration from Africa the public housing is still in great shape and well maintained.

 

Another major thing that happened was Section 8.

The purpose of Government housing projects was to provide a place for poor people to live because private land owners were charging too much for rent and property.

Section 8....where you take government money and put it in the hands of private land owners was the very OPPOSITE of why Public Housing was established in the first place.



 

 

richardmurray

 

 

I have no idea who are the decent blacks.

 

Black people who are fair, peaceful, and don't engage in reckless criminal behavior.
Black people who respect property, personal space, and other people...with good social manners.
Not to say that a decent Black person wouldn't break the law for a GOOD reason, but they generally don't go around being criminals and thugs for the hell of it.

.....in other word, the OPPOSITE of niggaz, lol.

 

 

What is the largest percentage of black people that you think owned land in the south from the end of the war between the states to the 1960s?

 

Not sure, but a pretty large percentage.
My family owned a lot of land that they received after the Civil War and most other Black Americans I know have said the same thing so it must have been a pretty good chunk.

I'm talking MILLIONS of acres.

But a lot of our people sold the land because they didn't want to work it or be farmers.
They'd rather move up to bigger cities and go work for other people in jobs they THOUGHT would be easier.

 

 

I will speak for NYC,  the nyc government controlled plus run by whites made sure all the black regions in nycare used for for projects which damage the black populac ein said regions. When the harlem empowerment zone led by bill clinton happened , many black owned businesses in harlem applied, but only one was granted.  no black business was given up but per the law you say you respect so much or feel is so badly needed the black busniness were legally pushed out of existence and the black populaces

 

Were there not Black politicians in New York positions to stop or reverse these policies?

 

 

Did you know the black populace of chicago si deemed 230,000 while the black populace of nyc is two million. that is a significant difference. nyc's black populace could cut away a parallel count from the black populaces of boston/detroit/chicago230,000/atlanta 190,000/new orleans and quite a few other cities  and still have half of its size. Yes, pioneer, you talked with your offline peers. Ok, very true, but you plus troy's lives or connections doesn't mean nyc's black populace is too small to include mine. 

 

Lol...not sure where you get your numbers from.

Detroit has a little over 500,000 Black people living in the city itself and almost that many scattered across the vast metropolitan area.
In all, the Detroit area has over 1 million Black people.

 

Chicago itself has a little over 1 million Black people in the city and probably about a million in it's suburbs too...making the Chicago area about 2 million.

It may not be as big as New Yorks, but percentage wise it takes up a much bigger chunk since New York has a much larger White and Asian population to offset the Black population.

[ProfD]

@Pioneer1, from reading your posts, I get the impression the most dysfunctional n8gglets were running around from the 1990s up to present. Let me know if that's correct.

 

The reason I'm asking for clarity is because those n8gglets would be the children and grandchildren of baby boomers. It's important to understand the role they played in the dysfunction of future generations. 

 

The housing projects were indeed started to help minimum wage workers to be able afford accommodations for their families. It was a stepping stone to a better life. 

 

Starting in the 1960s, housing projects became a place for women and their children on welfare aka poverty.

 

Again, a form of social engineering designed to produce a desired outcome. Baby boomers benefitted to their own detriment. 

 

Poverty breeds all types of social ills. Add drugs and unemployment to the mix and there's a dynamite soup being stirred up over generations. 

 

The n8gglets running around in gangs and selling dope and killing each other were conditioned to be dysfunctional through social engineering within the system of racism white supremacy. 

[Pioneer1]

45 minutes ago, ProfD said:

@Pioneer1, from reading your posts, I get the impression the most dysfunctional n8gglets were running around from the 1990s up to present. Let me know if that's correct.

 

The reason I'm asking for clarity is because those n8gglets would be the children and grandchildren of baby boomers. It's important to understand the role they played in the dysfunction of future generations. 

It would seem that way....yes.

I would say really from the 70s up to the present because heroine did a great job fucking a lot of our people up.
Especially in the cities.

But Crack went ALL OVER....lol.
It's tentacles reached way out into the boon docks...lol.


Baby Boomers?
Well........yeeaaaaah man....to a certain extent but, I can't lay all this at the feet of the boomers.

The White racists are first and foremost the blame for bringing the dope into the communities to begin with and setting the policies.
That's established.

Outside of them.....

The boomers were the youth of the Civil Rights movement and they were the drive of the Black Power movement of the 60s and 70s.
They did their part.
Now the CHILDREN of those boomers.....born in 1965 and later...failed to carry the torch.

Dr.Dre and Eazy E were born around that time in the mid 60s, lol.
Tupac was born in 72.
Cube and 'em born in 69.
I was born in 69.

That Generation X has to take responsibility for it's failures.

[ProfD]

58 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

The boomers were the youth of the Civil Rights movement and they were the drive of the Black Power movement of the 60s and 70s.
They did their part.

Sure. They were also responsible for bringing Generation X into that cycle of  poverty created by welfare, broken homes, drug addiction, etc. 

 

At the end of the Civil Rights movement and Vietnam War, we saw the rise of inner city problems. Gen-Xers were born into it. 

58 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Now the CHILDREN of those boomers.....born in 1965 and later...failed to carry the torch.

That Generation X has to take responsibility for it's failures.

Many Gen-Xers overcame the odds of poverty and/or the lack of a solid economic infrastructure and managed to become successful.

 

Unfortunately, many Gen-Xers were conditioned by that cycle of poverty. In turn, they also bred more n8gglets. The cycle continued. 

[Pioneer1]

ProfD


If the Baby Boomers were guilty of anything, they were guilty of partying and celebrating their PERCEIVED victory too quickly.

Yes sir, they indeed put in the work to achieve a measure of Civil Rights and "Black Power".
We can take that away from them brutha....we just can't.

 

However when they got a LITTLE victory and when some bruthaz were able to snuggle up with a White woman with a joint in his hand...he forgot about the struggle that he thought was already won and focused on partying and having a good time.

 

The children...me, you, and others...saw this and took the cue that the struggle was over too.

 

Reagan woke everybody up....lol.

 

 

 

 

Many Gen-Xers overcame the odds of poverty and/or the lack of a solid economic infrastructure and managed to become successful.

 

Unfortunately, many Gen-Xers were conditioned by that cycle of poverty. In turn, they also bred more n8gglets. The cycle continued.

Solid facts, but I'll tell you something bro.........

A lot of the problems in our community can't be blamed on past or current generations.
Just like a lot of the homicides can't be blamed on drugs.
And a lot of the broken families can't be blamed on feminism or the after effects of Slavery.

 

A lot of our people...a certain percentage...are just FUCKED UP.
Even under relatively IDEAL conditions a certain amount will be fucked up and we have to have a system to deal with them.

I'm of the belief that the White Racists who run the society AMPLIFY the dysfunction of our community where if WE were in charge we'd have a system in place to check them.

A certain amount of people in ANY community are just jacked up and self-destructive and an effective and responsible community has measure in place to deal with such people.

[richardmurray]

@Pioneer1

Quote

Were there not Black politicians in New York positions to stop or reverse these policies?

Well, all the elected officials: city council, state assembly, state senate , house of representatives for harlem were black at that time plus a majority of the populace was black. But, harlem like all districts in NYC has no legal power. Even though harlem's populace is bigger than most cities in the usa, it has no legal power. The elected representatives of harlem are all part of vastly multiracial legislative bodies that only act together when money is able to be given to all, ala why they love federal money and why, the amount of money needed to convince the other members of the city council to force the harlem empowerment zone to operate a certain way was financially beyond the means, unless you knew of a black person with the rockefellers wealth in years past in the usa? maybe you did.

@ProfD Well.. to your position on the baby boomers, I Will be blunt,the black populace in the usa has never had and doesn't have now financial advantage. That is a vital thing, and absent that poverty is always the destination. In NYC when people talk about the white asian populaces business heritage i remind them that while black business had to wait till the 1900s to be allowed in nyc, white asian business have been around since new amsterdam. that is hundreds of years of difference. The reality is, white asian/mestizos/mulattos/white arabs/white jews all were able to own business in centuries where blacks/negras/noir/swart/aswad were not in the usa or beyond. This is a simple fiscal capitalistic truth. An individual or group with less time will have less financial muscle. Catching up to centuries absent the same advantages was always going to be hard, and that is the source of the fiscal plague that keeps coming around. 

[ProfD]

4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

ProfD


If the Baby Boomers were guilty of anything, they were guilty of partying and celebrating their PERCEIVED victory too quickly.

Yes sir, they indeed put in the work to achieve a measure of Civil Rights and "Black Power".
We can take that away from them brutha....we just can't.

Definitely not taking their work in the struggle away and/or for granted.

 

Just pointing out where I think that partying and celebrating i.e. complacency led baby boomers to fall asleep at the wheel.

 

4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

The children...me, you, and others...saw this and took the cue that the struggle was over too.

Unlike my fellow Gen-Xers, I never felt the struggle was over.

 

As young fella, I'm sure my preaching got on my parents nerves too.

 

4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

A certain amount of people in ANY community are just jacked up and self-destructive and an effective and responsible community has measure in place to deal with such people.

I agree that we should be policing ourselves instead of putting it in the hands of the enemy.

 

@richardmurray, you're corrrect...Black folks have always been several hundred years behind other groups of people from a financial standpoint.

[richardmurray]

@ProfD I did say in the usa, not the whole world:) not the whole world, just the usa.

[ProfD]

34 minutes ago, richardmurray said:

@ProfD I did say in the usa, not the whole world:) not the whole world, just the usa.

Understood.

 

AfroAmericans are several hundred years behind white folks in terms of wealth.

 

However, considering how the continent of Africa is being carved up by outsiders and same goes for other countries, Black folks have whole countries to themselves but as a group of people they aren't too much better off than AfroAmericans financially.

[Pioneer1]

9 minutes ago, ProfD said:

 

AfroAmericans are several hundred years behind white folks in terms od wealth.

 

Several hundred????

Good brutha.....try SEVERAL THOUSAND years behind, lol.

We aren't even doing what the Roman's were able to do.
Even they had a military, thousands of square miles of land, and a way to feed their population along with skills for major building projects.

 

[ProfD]

5 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Several hundred????

Good brutha.....try SEVERAL THOUSAND years behind, lol.

We aren't even doing what the Roman's were able to do.
Even they had a military, thousands of square miles of land, and a way to feed their population along with skills for major building projects.

AfroAmericans haven't been free for thousands of years.

[richardmurray]

@ProfD

 

I have said in this forum many times my position on relating the black populace in the usa to the black populace anywhere else. My position is the black populace in the usa is unrelated to any other black populace in humanity, based on its scenario. It is incomparable to any other black populace. The truth, not positive or negative, but the truth. The Black DOS populace is not comparable to the Americo Liberians in Liberia or the Creole people in Sierra Leone, even though all three share a historical root of coming from black people enslaved in the usa. 

 

I think the black populace in the usa is financially better off than any other black populace in humanity, though I have to say to any who may read this, financial betterment for one doesn't mean their community is free or powerful.

also add @ProfD to your reply to pioneer that the usa isn't thousand of years old 

[ProfD]

10 hours ago, richardmurray said:

My position is the black populace in the usa is unrelated to any other black populace in humanity, based on its scenario.

Fair enough. AfroAmerican history is unique.

 

10 hours ago, richardmurray said:

I think the black populace in the usa is financially better off than any other black populace in humanity, though I have to say to any who may read this, financial betterment for one doesn't mean their community is free or powerful.

AfroAmerican wealth based on consumerism is significant but it hasn't been aggregated into allowing us to exercise real power.

10 hours ago, richardmurray said:

also add @ProfD to your reply to pioneer that the usa isn't thousand of years 

Thanks. I could add that fact to my post but @Pioneer1 doesn't seem to like small numbers where hundreds are thousands and thousands are millions and millions are billions. 

[Pioneer1]

ProfD  & richardmurray

Lol....huh????

At any rate.....
Our people are so far behind other groups in terms of just the basics like providing food, housing, and even clothing for ourselves.
Like I said, the Romans, Egyptians, Ethiopians, and other groups were able to do these things for themselves THOUSANDS of years ago.

AfroAmericans don't even make TOILET PAPER for ourselves.

If White folks stopped making toilet paper, it'll be a shitty time in America.
 

[ProfD]

40 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Like I said, the Romans, Egyptians, Ethiopians, and other groups were able to do these things for themselves THOUSANDS of years ago.

AfroAmericans haven't had nearly as much time as those groups of people.

 

On the flip side, those same groups of people aren't too much better off than AfroAmericans now.

 

The Roman empire collapsed. Ethiopians are still feeling their country. Egypt is not the crown jewel of North Africa, southeast Asia or the Middle East.

 

40 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

AfroAmericans don't even make TOILET PAPER for ourselves.

If White folks stopped making toilet paper, it'll be a shitty time in America.

I'm a huge proponent that AfroAmericans should be self-sufficient.

 

However, there's also the belief that one doesn't have to produce something they can afford to buy. 

 

That's why most folks shop in grocery stores instead of growing their own food.

 

I know AfroAmericans can produce everything we consume if it was necessary. There's no shortage of very smart people among us.

[Pioneer1]

ProfD

 

AfroAmericans haven't had nearly as much time as those groups of people.

 

We don't NEED as much time because we have technology at our hands far more advanced that what the Romans, Greeks, and Persians were working with.
 

 

The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers can build an entire city from scratch in about a month.
Our people could learn THAT alone and it would be a great start.

 

We've been here long enough to build hospitals, factories, and cultivate farms.

 

 

 

 

On the flip side, those same groups of people aren't too much better off than AfroAmericans now.

 

It depends on how you define better.
Romans, Greeks, Egyptians, and others were self sufficient.

Sure they had to worry about war and being conquered from the outside....but they could build their own housing, feed themselves, and sustain their kingdoms.

As I said before, as a community AfroAmericans don't grow our own food, most of us don't employ ourselves, and don't even make toilet paper.

 

I'm a huge proponent that AfroAmericans should be self-sufficient.

 

However, there's also the belief that one doesn't have to produce something they can afford to buy. 

 

True.
But there is what's considered a HEALTHY BALANCE of being both a consumer and producer.

If you do nothing but consume and fail to produce...pretty soon your source of income may be cut off where you can't afford to consume anymore either.

You should be able to produce what you consume so others don't have power over you.

 

 

 

I know AfroAmericans can produce everything we consume if it was necessary.

 There's no shortage of very smart people among us.

 

Fact, me too.
But most ARE NOT...and that's the problem

There are hundreds of thousands of Black doctors and nurses and radiologists among us too....where are the Black hospitals?
 

The problem isn't the ABILITY of our pepole....the problem is the WILL and DESIRE.

Notice you never call a handicapped person "lazy".
Why not?
Because they have an obvious excuse for not being mobile and active.
 

But that muscle bound nicca laying on the couch in a white wife-beater with a neck like Mike Tyson's and his socked pulled half-way down his feet, smoking that fake ass weed that's going to make him even MORE stupid than he already is......ain't SHIT wrong with him physically.
Laziness is MENTAL.
 

[ProfD]

21 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

We've been here long enough to build hospitals, factories, and cultivate farms.

Agreed. Since I showed up on this forum, I've mentioned severally that AfroAmericans should already have a solid economic infrastructure which would include everything required to survive. Being a gross consumer and non-producer is detrimental.

 

21 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

The problem isn't the ABILITY of our pepole....the problem is the WILL and DESIRE.

I'm inclined to think AfroAmericans don't see the necessity of having our own sh8t.  Either way, it's a sad reality.

 

21 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

But that muscle bound nicca laying on the couch in a white wife-beater with a neck like Mike Tyson's and his socked pulled half-way down his feet, smoking that fake ass weed that's going to make him even MORE stupid than he already is......ain't SHIT wrong with him physically.
Laziness is MENTAL.

I don't understand why anybody enables or communicates with lazy azz men or women. I have zero bandwidth for useless people.

[Pioneer1]

ProfD

 

I'm inclined to think AfroAmericans don't see the necessity of having our own sh8t.  Either way, it's a sad reality.

 

I'm not sure why.
Our leaders from Marcus Garvey to Elijah Muhammad have been preaching this to our people for over 100 years now...lol.

 

It's no longer sad to me because I understand, many of our people simply aren't smart enough to realize what's in our best interests.

When we realize and accept this, then we can embark on an intelligent course that WILL work.

 

 

 

 

I don't understand why anybody enables or communicates with lazy azz men or women. I have zero bandwidth for useless people.

 

I understand why....lol....OTHER lazy people.
Lazy people tend to hang around eachother and scheme up together to find people who are NOT lazy to mooch off of, lol.

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

Our leaders from Marcus Garvey to Elijah Muhammad have been preaching this to our people for over 100 years now...lol.

They were preaching 100 years ago.

 

Those men have been resting for a long time now.

 

The generations who received their teachings and messages figured AfroAmericans were better off with integration and civil rights and affirmative action.

 

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

It's no longer sad to me because I understand, many of our people simply aren't smart enough to realize what's in our best interests.

When we realize and accept this, then we can embark on an intelligent course that WILL work.

Over the several decades, there's been no shortage of brilliant AfroAmericans who have matriculated through institutions of higher learning and they've pursued all types of careers.

 

Similarly, there's been no shortage of AfroAmericans who helped to build everything in America. We have that knowledge too.

 

IMO, AfroAmericans do not lack intelligence or work ethic. There's no vision plan or design for what we need. Theres no champion or leadership.

 

A hospital or school doesn't get built just thinking about it. Requires an architect, engineer, builder, money, materials and manpower.

 

AfroAmericans can cover every position on the team. We just need motivation and incentive.

 

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

I understand why....lol....OTHER lazy people.

Lazy people tend to hang around eachother and scheme up together to find people who are NOT lazy to mooch off of, lol

I bet we could get a whole bunch of those same lazy people to work on building that hospital or school just by dangling a lucrative hourly rate.