Is drinking red wine, in moderation good or bad for you?

[Troy]

What do you think?

[ProfD]

Drinking red wine in moderation is supposed to be good.  It's a staple in some cultures.

 

 

[richardmurray]

each human being has their own physiology. 

What I hope is any who eat anything regularly with in their diet, listen to their body/mind/soul and if it is cool or not, act accordingly in response. 

 

I am not a weekly or monthly drinker of alcohol. I drink alcohol for the holidays. 

 

At the end of the day, red wine like most wines are fermented grapes. All wines are fermented fruits. Grapes are healthy unfermented as well as fermented and I will say one thing to the fermentation of grapes or other fruits, unlike hops/beer and other grains like rice/bourbon , wine is the easier to ferment and the less manipulative to ferment. Meaning firms add things to alcohols from grains that may not do well for a customer, but wine is just fermented fruit. Anyone can make wine in their house, put your favorite fruit in a bx outside and over time it will ferment , you will smell it. It is just that simple. .... I do advise you cover the box of fruit if you do that with a cloth but it is simple. the sugar of the fruit becomes alcohol. and the rest of the fruit gives wines their various secondary odors plus tastes. I conclude with, the safest alcoholic drink is wine. 

 

@ProfD is correct, in the mediterranean sea countries, having wine with a daily meal, is customary for many

 

. 

[Troy]

I was of the same opinion as you guys.  Someone recently told me our thinking is antiquated, and that the new science says that no amount of alcohol is good for you.  I pushed back saying, with everything there are trade-offs and that the benefits of moderate red wine consumption outweighs any negatives. That sentiment was rejected.

 

They pushed back and cited the World Health Organization (WHO) report.  I cited the American Heart Association (AHA) and the Centers for Disease Control (CDC). I conceded that the CDC and AHA may be less biased than WHO due to the influence of government lobbyists.  People often say they "do your own research" unless you have a lab, staff, and money, you can't "do you own research." 

 

So now I'm not sure what I believe.  I guess I'll fund a lab and do my own research

 

I just added an additional option to the poll, "I dunno."

 

[frankster]

Organic Red wine that contains low levels of alcohol and high amounts of resveratrol is said to be good for you if consumed in moderation....all things being relative

[Troy]

@frankster that runs counter to the science:  From the WHO:

“We cannot talk about a so-called safe level of alcohol use. It doesn’t matter how much you drink – the risk to the drinker’s health starts from the first drop of any alcoholic beverage. The only thing that we can say for sure is that the more you drink, the more harmful it is – or, in other words, the less you drink, the safer it is,”

—Dr Carina Ferreira-Borges, acting Unit Lead for Noncommunicable Disease Management and Regional Advisor for Alcohol and Illicit Drugs in the WHO Regional Office for Europe. 

[richardmurray]

@Troy add "to each individual" in the poll and i will vote:) 

[Troy]

@richardmurray  I'm asking if drinking wine, in moderation, is good you; not "you" specifically, buy "you" in the in general case.  

[richardmurray]

@Troy 

I know that is why i say add, to each individual, that is the best answer. theoe's health isnt about averages, it is a unique thin as each person is unique

[frankster]

2 hours ago, Troy said:

@frankster that runs counter to the science:  From the WHO:

“We cannot talk about a so-called safe level of alcohol use. It doesn’t matter how much you drink – the risk to the drinker’s health starts from the first drop of any alcoholic beverage. The only thing that we can say for sure is that the more you drink, the more harmful it is – or, in other words, the less you drink, the safer it is,”

—Dr Carina Ferreira-Borges, acting Unit Lead for Noncommunicable Disease Management and Regional Advisor for Alcohol and Illicit Drugs in the WHO Regional Office for Europe. 

Many Medications contain alcohol some as much as 25%..

As noted by @richardmurray fermentation is a process that is used in wine making that causes alcohol formation.

Fermented food is known to be healthy especially for good  gut bacteria

Alcohol is also welknown as a antiseptic and disinfectant Viricide fungicide and bactericide....both in Vitro and in Vivo

[aka Contrarian]

An occasional  goblet of red wine can mellow you out and, in doing so, temporarily chase your cares away.  How bad can that be?

What do medical authorities know? They're just people who the wine industry doesn't have in their pockets. 

Put em in check, RFK! Drinking a little of "the grape" can't be any worse than getting a covid vaccine!

CHEERS!

[Troy]

On 12/17/2024 at 12:51 PM, richardmurray said:

unique thin as each person is unique

 

The WHO, AHA, or CDC does not issue the report for individuals nor was my question for individuals, so I'll leave it as is, though I don't quite understand why you can answer it.  Can you explain?

 

@frankster, cutting someone open with a knife is not go for you, but in the context of surgery it is.  Why go off the deep end with your examples? I specifically mentioned red wine.  If you mentioned beer or spirits, I could see it, but "Viricide fungicide and bactericide..." Come on man does anyone even drink that stuff.

 

I brought some cheap wine-in-a-box at Costco and every time I drink this particular wine -- no exception it triggers AFib. So I stopped drinking it.  I'm also considering cutting alcohol out altogether.  This would be a major change to my life-style, but not worth having a stoke or heart attack to continue.  

 

Today when I look older videos and movies and see people smoking everywhere it just seems crazy. Looking back it is hard to believe we did that to ourselves.  I think in the future when we look back at these times seeing people drinking so much we will look just as crazy.

[richardmurray]

@Troy 

26 minutes ago, Troy said:

The WHO, AHA, or CDC does not issue the report for individuals nor was my question for individuals, so I'll leave it as is, though I don't quite understand why you can answer it.  Can you explain?

 

I can explain. You once said you don't comprehend my questions at times. I oppose the structure of your questions at times. And the methodologies of the world health organization or the center for disease control are not in my view, always correct. 

I do think all questions of health are at the core individual not collective. 

but, 

Is red wine good for me personally. I voted in the above poll I dunno. As all wisdom begins with i do not know. 

[frankster]

6 minutes ago, Troy said:

 

The WHO, AHA, or CDC does not issue the report for individuals nor was my question for individuals, so I'll leave it as is, though I don't quite understand why you can answer it.  Can you explain?

 

@frankster, cutting someone open with a knife is not go for you, but in the context of surgery it is.  Why go off the deep end with your examples? I specifically mentioned red wine.  If you mentioned beer or spirits, I could see it, but "Viricide fungicide and bactericide..." Come on man does anyone even drink that stuff.

I am responding to your quote by the WHO official....."we cannot talk about safe levels of alcohol....the risk to the drinker starts from the first drop". 

That is the reason why I waded in to the deep.

My initial response already dealt with the red wine question......organic low alcohol(below 2%/5% low/light) and high resvertrol content are often considered good.

Alcohol is considered medicinal by some...viricide etc

 

6 minutes ago, Troy said:

 

I brought some cheap wine-in-a-box at Costco and every time I drink this particular wine -- no exception it triggers AFib. So I stopped drinking it.  I'm also considering cutting alcohol out altogether.  This would be a major change to my life-style, but not worth having a stoke or heart attack to continue. 

Yes you should stop as it is having a deleterious effect on you....

Curious.....what are the ingredients on the label? and its alcohol content percentage?

 

6 minutes ago, Troy said:

Today when I look older videos and movies and see people smoking everywhere it just seems crazy. Looking back it is hard to believe we did that to ourselves.  I think in the future when we look back at these times seeing people drinking so much we will look just as crazy.

Ignorance is bliss....so is innocence - generational gap

[richardmurray]

32 minutes ago, Troy said:

 

Today when I look older videos and movies and see people smoking everywhere it just seems crazy. Looking back it is hard to believe we did that to ourselves.  I think in the future when we look back at these times seeing people drinking so much we will look just as crazy.

 @Troy 

I will hope people in the future will be much wiser in how they appreciate the past. I do find it interesting how often people today , at least especially in the usa, tend to say, the future will look at the people in the past as some extreme or near extreme negative. 

I hope the humans in the future get out of the judgement business which preoccupies so many humans today. I hope they focus on the free will business, the functional business, the honesty business and stop the false parent business.  I hope. 

[Troy]

30 minutes ago, frankster said:

Curious.....what are the ingredients on the label? and its alcohol content percentage?

 

Yes, I was curious too as there was nothing on the label to distinguish it from any other wine I had in the house. 

 

33 minutes ago, frankster said:

Alcohol is considered medicinal by some...viricide etc

 

Yes, but you don't drink it, which is why I considered your example extreme.

 

32 minutes ago, richardmurray said:

I hope the humans in the future get out of the judgement

 

Well Judgement is human nature -- a necessary part of survival.

[richardmurray]

@Troy

is precaution human nature?

[Troy]

As a consequence of judgement, sure, but it depends upon the situation and person where the caution is applied.

[ProfD]

Hindsight is always 20/20 or better when looking at the past. 

 

Of course, in the present, it's all about enjoying life to the fullest extent whatever that entails.

 

The reality is that each and every last one of us is going to eventually die.  Enjoy the ride for as long as possible. 

 

Beyond raising children, we should not pass judgment or tell grown azz people what is *good* or *bad* for them. 

 

Nobody should be robbed of their lived and shared experiences.  That's our journey.

 

Life is short in the grand scheme of things.  To that end...eat, drink and be happy.

[Troy]

45 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Life is short in the grand scheme of things.  To that end...eat, drink and be happy.

 

Yeah, I hear you... But I also don't want to experience that flittering heart sensation.  If it happened every time I drank any alcohol, I would stop it all immediately.

 

[ProfD]

56 minutes ago, Troy said:

Yeah, I hear you... But I also don't want to experience that flittering heart sensation.  If it happened every time I drank any alcohol, I would stop it all immediately.

 

Surely.  One has to do whatever best works for their personal health and well-being.

[frankster]

9 hours ago, Troy said:

 

Yes, I was curious too as there was nothing on the label to distinguish it from any other wine I had in the house. 

Sounds skecthy....seems they are not required to list ingredients - go figure???

 

9 hours ago, Troy said:

Yes, but you don't drink it, which is why I considered your example extreme.

Of course we drink alcohol.

What am I missing here?

 

9 hours ago, Troy said:

Well Judgement is human nature -- a necessary part of survival.

 

[Troy]

22 hours ago, frankster said:

What am I missing here?

you don’t drink viricide

[frankster]

1 hour ago, Troy said:

you don’t drink viricide

Yes we do.....alcohol as in  Moonshine rum whiskey etc (ethanol/ethyl) kills viruses both in and on the body.

[aka Contrarian]

It's not unusual for people who have lived long lives, to attribute their longevity to having a nightly 

cocktail. 

My brother, who lived to be 87 years old, never stopped being a daily drinker. He outlived all of his friends, who frowned on his habits.

 

Just like salt and sugar which are supposed to be bad for you in excess. I still have a heavy hand with the salt shaker and don't skimp on sugar either. At 91 years, I am surprised that I don't have diabetes.

My vices are my pleasures.

So be it.

[ProfD]

5 hours ago, aka Contrarian said:

My vices are my pleasures.

So be it.

Absolutely. Live life to the fullest.  Ride it out until the wheels fall off.

[Troy]

16 hours ago, aka Contrarian said:

It's not unusual for people who have lived long lives, to attribute their longevity to having a nightly 

cocktail. 

My brother, who lived to be 87 years old, never stopped being a daily drinker. He outlived all of his friends, who frowned on his habits.

 

 

I know, but obviously genes play significant role in longevity. Plus imagine how long he would have lived if he did not drink... 

 

16 hours ago, aka Contrarian said:

I still have a heavy hand with the salt shaker and don't skimp on sugar either. At 91 years, I am surprised that I don't have diabetes.

My vices are my pleasures.

 

You are amazingly fortunate -- your lifestyle would have killed the average Black man before the age of 50.   

 

Everyone is different.  Last night I spend the evening in a cigar bar.  I did not smoke or drink whisky like I normally would, but I did drink some wine to no apparent ill effect.  Perhaps for me moderation is the key. 

 

I had an uncle who died in his 30s from a heart attack.  He lived fast and died very young.  As far as I know he did not have any regrets. 

 

My ole man died a few years later and has now been dead longer than he lived.  I wished he would have lived long enough to see me grown up.

 

17 hours ago, frankster said:

Moonshine rum whiskey etc (ethanol/ethyl) kills viruses both in and on the body.

 

LOL! No dude ethyl alcohol would do a LOT more harm than good by drinking it to kill viruses inside the body.  it is good for topical treatment or for surfaces, but not for drinking -- you starting to sound like Kennedy  

 

 

 

 

[Pioneer1]

I don't drink red wine because when I do it makes a very sour taste in my mouth and part of my tooth crumbled and fell out.
I attributed it to the acidity and sulfides in it.

 

But it's all about the INDIVIDUAL.

If you're an ALCOHOLIC....hell no.
Red wine is NOT good for you.

But for some others, it may be ok.

 

I heard multiple stories about people being "allergic" to some chemicals in red wine that affects their brains and runs them crazy.

[ProfD]

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

But it's all about the INDIVIDUAL.

 

I heard multiple stories about people being "allergic" to some chemicals in red wine that affects their brains and runs them crazy.

Right.  People have to know their tolerances and consume accordingly. 

 

The *problem* is people who know they cannot handle alcohol or drugs and consume it anyway. 

 

Then, those drunk or high folks proceed to act a fool and bring harm or danger to everybody else.  That's not cool.

 

 

[Troy]

A soon to be finalized study concluded that moderate drinking is healthier than not drinking at all:

 

From the National Academies of Science, Engineering and Medicine's, Review of Evidence on Alcohol and Health (2025)

 

Conclusion 3-1: Based on data from the eight eligible studies from 2019 to 2023, the committee concludes that compared with never consuming alcohol, moderate alcohol consumption is associated with lower all-cause mortality (moderate certainty)

 

[frankster]

18 hours ago, Troy said:

LOL! No dude ethyl alcohol would do a LOT more harm than good by drinking it to kill viruses inside the body. 

Not if you know how to use it.....Benadryl Halls and Dristan - Cold and Cough medications  contains alcohol.

 

18 hours ago, Troy said:

it is good for topical treatment or for surfaces,

True

 

18 hours ago, Troy said:

but not for drinking --

The point is that it does....in moderation it has been shown to be more good than bad.

 

18 hours ago, Troy said:

you starting to sound like Kennedy  

Yeah.... some times the truth come from the most unexpected places or persons

[richardmurray]

@Troy

nice share, 

in my opinion studies have value plus worth whie i still feel each individual should heed their own individual reactions when it comes to health

[Troy]

9 hours ago, frankster said:

some times the truth come from the most unexpected places or persons

True. But remember vaccines, like moderate drinking, is good for you.

 

[frankster]

11 hours ago, Troy said:

True. But remember vaccines, like moderate drinking, is good for you.

 

True.....for some real vaccines.

Gene Therapy redefined as a vaccine(mRNA) may not be doing what you think it is doing....Whether or not what it is doing is good for you is yet to be ascertained.