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You are another I will refrain from further comment on the subject, for I don't know of any "Dr." who would in public call Africa a "country" and not a "continent." If you can't get geography 101, then I know for a fact linguistics is out of your league.

Secondly, if you knew ANYTHING about the Nation of Islam you'd know they have a problem with ALL European names. European names to them are "weird" sounding names. Again, this is Black History 101 as why they change their names to "X." Did you even bother to read the Autobiography of Malcolm X? Don't answer that.

Thirdly, and I wonder if you have EVER opened up a book about Black people, let alone the Harlem Renaissance. Let's take the biggest name of the Harlem Renaissance, Langston Hughes, and lets what the core of his being lied.

http://www.nathanielturner.com/langstonhughesandafrica.htm

Langston Hughes and Africa

By Harold R. Isaacs

Of all the poets in Harlem who SANG OF AFRICA [emphasis that of Asar] in the 1920’s, Langston Hughes was the only one who had been there. Perhaps this was why he sometimes sang of Africa in a key different from the rest:

We cry among the skyscrapers

As our ancestors

Cried among the palms in Africa

Because we are alone,

It is night,

And we’re afraid.

Or, in a different mood:

We should have a land of trees

Bowed down with chattering parrots

Brilliant as the day

And not this land where birds are grey.

It was more common to sing about happy Africans long dead, or imaginary Africans who never lived, but Langston Hughes saw himself trying to shake hands with live Africans, now:

We are related—you and I.

You from the West Indies,

I from Kentucky.

We are related—you and I.

You from Africa,

I from these States.

We are brothers—you and I.

John Coltrane took off to study spirituality across the world, especially AFRICAN SPIRITUALITY and come out with A LOVE SUPREME. This is why the church named after him is called the SAINT JOHN COLTRANE AFRICAN ORTHODOX CHURCH. From Wikepedia:

Coltrane also explored Hinduism, the Kabbalah, Jiddu Krishnamurti, African history, and the philosophical teachings of Plato and Aristotle.[15]

Have you even read Walter Mosley's "47"? Have you read Carter G. Woodson's "The Negro in Our History?" Did you read the first chapter, "The Negro in Africa?" If you have, would you be arguing that he's some crazy "Afro-Centrist?" I think if he was alive he'd be arguing with you as well wondering what planet did you step off of. Especially when Dr. Woodson asks critical research questions like this

Has the culture of the Negro anything in common with that of the western nations, or is the Negro merely imitative, as is often asserted by many writers? Since MOST HISTORIANS IN THIS FIELD KNOW PRACTICALLY NOTHING ABOUT THE NEGROES IN AFRICA PRIOR TO THEIR ENSLAVEMENT, it will be profitable to give their situation in that land at least a cursory examination.
...And that's on the very first page.

Carter G Woodson is beginning to address the question of continuity vs incontinuity brought up by E. Franklin Frazier, which Joseph Halloway and others put to rest in Africanisms in American Culture (2005), in regards to the retaining of African cultural elements, or is everything we do some new innovation from the states: the same argument we are having now. Dr. Woodson had to school historians of his day who didn't know jack about Africa, but attempted to contribute to a conversation from which they had no data: just like "Dr" Stinky Onion (Chicago).

I could go on, but I don't toss pearls among swine. You evoked these names and more and because you didn't actually study them, didn't know that they too, like the African-Centered scholars, drew from Africa to create some of their greatest works we all know and love today. Because of your incompetence and total disregard for the proper study of my people, please refrain from commenting back to this post as it is clear you are talking out of the side of your rectum. I only debate my equals, all others I teach. You as well can have the last word. I'm through with you.

It is difficult to know how to respond to most of this Afro-Centric nationalistic nonsense spouting forth as practical informed academic research that somehow translates into a real world meaning for a young black teenage mother in New Haven trying forge her identity and that of her child's by naming her Shaquinta.

Let us assume that we accept Asar Imhotep's argument that this validated and perfectly acceptable child naming has its roots in Africa, a country I still contend that the average clown coming up with these names knows nothing about. And let us all agree they have a perfect right to name their child anything they want. God bless them. This is America and one of its greatest assets is that we can do things like that and not go to jail. But at the end of the day, the so called Negro will still have to advance in this rough, wicked world and distancing ones self from the negative and stereotypical behaviors of this current ghetto mentality generation is going to be paramount to making it. Not by so called European standards but by world standards.

I might add here that just because somebody thinks a behavior is negative they are not self hating. The Nation of Islam, whether you agree or disagree with their philosophy, has been ranting and raving for years about not only these ridiculous names but other behaviors like Negro teen promiscuity, profanity, dressing like clowns and buffoons, talking ignorant, using the "N" word and all the other self destructive behavior, and no one could hardly call them self hating! I happen to think that Lil' Wayne as well as Mantan Moreland and Stepin Fetchit all present a negative image of Negroes but I am not self hating. I happen to think that our culture is so rich in positive contributions to the world that you never have to point back to Africa to find that richness. One only has to look at the writers of the Harlem Renaissance and beyond or the music of John Coltrane, Edward Kennedy Ellington, Thelonius Monk, Nina Simone or the current writings of Walter Mosley or the historic writings of Carter Woodson and John Hope Franklin which should allow us to put aside these romantic musings about Africa. I will have more to say later on what my Nigerian and Zambian friends have to say about their observations regarding the current Negro generation and their so called African cultural traditions.

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You are another I will refrain from further comment on the subject, for I don't know of any "Dr." who would in public call Africa a "country" and not a "continent." If you can't get geography 101, then I know for a fact linguistics is out of your league.

Secondly, if you knew ANYTHING about the Nation of Islam you'd know they have a problem with ALL European names. European names to them are "weird" sounding names. Again, this is Black History 101 as why they change their names to "X." Did you even bother to read the Autobiography of Malcolm X? Don't answer that.

Thirdly, and I wonder if you have EVER opened up a book about Black people, let alone the Harlem Renaissance. Let's take the biggest name of the Harlem Renaissance, Langston Hughes, and lets what the core of his being lied.

An error in editing led me to the faux pas of calling Africa a country - my bad. I was letting my anger and frustration get in the way of thoughtful but passionate discussion. I won't let that harm any patients I treat and thanks for pointing that out. I agree that the Nation used to not like European names so choose names like Malcolm X . They usually take names that reflect their Islamic beliefs and to identify more with their fellow Muslims. I still have heard them make fun of the names we are discussing in this forum. those names might be African sounding with the cute little "a" at the end or the "Le or La" in front of them but they are not African. If that is an important contribution to Negro culture then so be it. We will have to agree to disagree and leave it at that without making it personal.

I did read the "Autobiography of Malcolm X" but I do not have a degree in linguistics. My background is in science and political science with a strong background in music. I try to read everything on multiple topics, but I can tell I have not scratched the surface compared to you and others on this board but I am open to learn.

At the time Mr Hughes was writing about Africa most of the countries were still under the oppressive thumb of the European colonial powers and we were not far from it the time. How could we not identify with and write about that. Ditto for Mr Woodson. That being said, no writer at the time had the vision to see when the white oppressor was driven out their replacements would be black oppressors who took fascism and racism to new heights. What immediately comes to mind is the native South Africans discriminating and killing in many instances "guest" Nigerian workers who they see as lowlife predators stealing their jobs and trying to take over their country. Who da thunk?

I can't argue with the fact that Africa is rich with culture, art and music much of which the slaves brought over with them and we now use in so called jazz and even in Hip Hop. I knew John Coltrane. He was a close friend of my God father in Los Angeles and I would spend the summers there. He choose to study Africa and other world music primarily for the music and what elements he could use to incorporate into his music. The church of John Coltrane which I have visited out here in the bay Area has taken that all a bit far and he was far to humble of a man to sanction that kind of extreme nonsense if he were alive in body today.

I guess what I am trying to get across is that the American Negro has a rich culture that is a blend of both African and European traditions that make us who we are- All colors of the rainbow (fewer and fewer are dark black). - Jazz and blues which take much from each tradition to blend into a music played by all countries throughout the world. You know the list could go on. Gospel music sounds to me at times like Yoruba chants.

I can't argue with any of that my friend. But I just don't think the any of the people I come across on a daily basis have even a remote knowledge of any of this when they come up with these names. Maybe it is their way of protesting against the so called dominate culture and so be it. But this type of petty "protest" will not advance the current sorry state of affairs for the American Negro and will likely make it that much harder. Just like some poor white Appalachian who names their child Billy Bob is not helping that child's chances.

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I think it's significant that Asar Imhotep continues to annouce that he will not bother responding to posts he deems unworthy of anwering and then proceeds to favor us with one of his self-aggrandizing lectures. This is an arrogant, self-important man who can't even recognize his own contradictions. And he certainly has no fine-tuning mechanism, apparently stuck in the Afro centric mode that stunts his ability to realize that all Blacks acknowledge the influences of The Motherland on their culture. They are just not obsessed or preooccupied with proselytizing something that has little relevance in the dominant culture because they have their priorities together and are more focused on staying afloat in the mainstream - just like all other ethnic minorities.

Asar takes himself so seriously that he couldn't even recognize the levity I injected into our debate by accusing him of being descended from the victimizing West African tribes instead of the victimized ones. Watta stiff. :blink:

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......that all Blacks acknowledge the influences of The Motherland on their culture. They are just not obsessed or preooccupied with proselytizing something that has little relevance in the dominant culture because they have their priorities together and are more focused on staying afloat in the mainstream - just like all other ethnic minorities.

Brilliant! I believe that puts this discussion in a realistic perspective.....

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Making fun of a name like Shaniqua, in my mind, is a form of self hatred; because the hatred stems from the name not confirming to a "so called" European Standard and the assumption (false assumption in my opinion) that the name alone will be held against one trying to gain employment or otherwise be held against them.

A form of self hatred??!! Excuse me, but why would I hate myself because a misguided Negro decided to give their child a childish simple minded name? How and why would the embarrassing ignorance of someone who named their child, Placenta, Abcde, LaTryianna or Queteshia through some convoluted psychopathology - make me hate myself??? Just exactly how does this process work? It makes as much sense as me saying, “Man, the Raiders suck! They haven’t’ been a .500 team in years.” And you respond by saying,”Huh? Well, sounds like you hate yourself….” Duhhhhh??? Again, how and why would I hate myself because of the decisions a person (or season record of a team) I do not personally know lead to me hating myself?? And conforming to European standards has absolutely nothing to do with subject. I’m afraid your logic makes absolutely no sense Mr. Troy. But you are free to explain it…..

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It is actually pretty simple Xeon. The dominant culture is European. Most of of use derive our language, our religion, our names, the way we dress from the dominant culture. Indeed, the skin lighteners, the hair straightening provides even more evidence of our desire to actually replicate the very appearance of our former masters.

Ok the damage has been done. After hundreds of years, we can not easily or maybe not even realistically reclaim what was taken from us.

Still with me?

Self hatred is trying, to your own detriment, to be something you can not be.

But it does not stop there:

Some self-hating Negroes get bent out of shape if some of the other Negroes want to do something different that what the dominant culture was defined for us.

If does not matter if the dissenting Negro is trying to retrieve something that was lost or come up with something entirely new. So long as they are doing something other than what the dominant culture dictates; the self-hating negro gets upset.

Maybe Madison let her perm grow out and is wearing in braids at the office, or Elroy decided to name his daughter LaTryianna. Maybe the Shakur family decided to celebrate Kwanzaa instead of Christmas. Maybe Troy decided to change his name to Kwesi or that nice family across the street stopped eating bacon and joined the Nation of Islam.

This kind of stuff really burns some Negroes (the self-hating kind) up. They just don't understand why the "those" unruly Negroes can't behave themselves. "Don't they know they are messing it up for the rest of us good negroes", the self hating Negro wonders.

In fact, the self-hating Negro will blog and go on television to talk about how much they hate what those other ignorant Negroes are doing.

There might only be one person in the entire country named "Abcde" but it does not matter; the self-hating Negro will point it out. Self-hating Negroes think they cane make up for the transgressions of the "misbehaving" Negro by calling him "stupid", "ignorant" or "uncivilized".

Xeon what other rational reason is there for someone to get all in a huff over what someone else naming their child LaTryianna or Queteshia?

Would you prefer a list of approved names that we can use to name our children?

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Guest Renee

All of the input into this discussion neglects to take certain things into consideration. As much as we defend and justify the made-up names people are given, the bottom line is not about a parent's prerogative but about Society's perception. You can't control how people will react to the name you give your child, and children are the ones who have to shoulder the burden of a bizarre moniker. Even if a name doesn't inspire raised eyebrows among a child's peers, the general reaction to it by the powers-that-be can prove to be a handicap once adulthood is reached. Yes, the President of the United States has an African name and from day one it was considerd as big a liability as his cocaine habit and his wreckless youth. B)

A child deserves to be given every chance to succeed in life, and names are a brand. Of course it isn't fair to judge a person by his or her name, but life is not fair. Haven't black folks learned by now that there is no justice in this world???? Enuff with the poly-syllabic tongue-twisters replete with apostrophes. Stop using your child to indulge your whims. :blink:

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Guest poetryality

Society is a cruel animal. If parents want to use their names combined to name their first born, how can society dictate otherwise? For instance, Kevin and Stacey want to name their daughter using both their names so they decide on calling her; Kevacey or Stavin Or one better, a combination of letters from both names Tarceviny I mean... God-forbid Black people having any druthers at all. :rolleyes:

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It is actually pretty simple Xeon. The dominant culture is European. Most of of use derive our language, our religion, our names, the way we dress from the dominant culture. Indeed, the skin lighteners, the hair straightening provides even more evidence of our desire to actually replicate the very appearance of our former masters.

Ok the damage has been done. After hundreds of years, we can not easily or maybe not even realistically reclaim what was taken from us.

Still with me?

Self hatred is trying, to your own detriment, to be something you can not be.

But it does not stop there:

Some self-hating Negroes get bent out of shape if some of the other Negroes want to do something different that what the dominant culture was defined for us.

If does not matter if the dissenting Negro is trying to retrieve something that was lost or come up with something entirely new. So long as they are doing something other than what the dominant culture dictates; the self-hating negro gets upset.

Maybe Madison let her perm grow out and is wearing in braids at the office, or Elroy decided to name his daughter LaTryianna. Maybe the Shakur family decided to celebrate Kwanzaa instead of Christmas. Maybe Troy decided to change his name to Kwesi or that nice family across the street stopped eating bacon and joined the Nation of Islam.

This kind of stuff really burns some Negroes (the self-hating kind) up. They just don't understand why the "those" unruly Negroes can't behave themselves. "Don't they know they are messing it up for the rest of us good negroes", the self hating Negro wonders.

In fact, the self-hating Negro will blog and go on television to talk about how much they hate what those other ignorant Negroes are doing.

There might only be one person in the entire country named "Abcde" but it does not matter; the self-hating Negro will point it out. Self-hating Negroes think they cane make up for the transgressions of the "misbehaving" Negro by calling him "stupid", "ignorant" or "uncivilized".

Xeon what other rational reason is there for someone to get all in a huff over what someone else naming their child LaTryianna or Queteshia?

Would you prefer a list of approved names that we can use to name our children?

Well, it's easy to indict so-called self-hating negroes when you give your own defintion of what one is, Troy. But since black folks are not clones, or monolithic, I don't buy the theory that when one black person disapproves of what another black person does, this is tantamont to self-hate. It's more a case of a self-righteousness, which is a manisfestation of self-love. Everybody thinks their way is the right way, including those who dismiss other Blacks who have capitalized on the benefits of assimilating into the culture of the country in which they live. Whether doing this is disloyal or whether it is self-serving can be debated, but I continue to maintain that it's not a question of self-hate.

More than anything, I find the practice of making up names and adopting African ones amusing. But this indulgence on the part of others exerts no personal reflection on me or does it have a negative effect on my life. I am not "one-and-the-same" with such people, so if I hated them it would definitely not be a case of me hating myself. When I look in the mirror, I see "me", not "them".

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Sheeze. You sound like somebody's sock puppet. There are 30 million black people in this country, and believe it or not, we are a diversified group and there is room for the many different degrees to which Blacks embrace their afro-centrism.

Being named Barak Obama didn't prevent this man from getting elected to the presidency. Could it be that he didn't let his name interefere with his whiteness. :lol:

Do your thing and let others do theirs and you won't be in danger of having another breakdown. Get real.

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Cynique of course it is self-hate.

And in reality it is not a Black issue it is a human one; though I may have cast it as such in my last example.

More broadly, consider the extreme case of someone who murders someone else. Some of us might say, "Wow they must have really hated that person to murder them". Murdering someone else is just an extreme manifestation of self hatred, turned outward.

Usually the manifestations are not as extreme. Sometimes we show it by being unnecessarily critical of others -- mean really.

Like you, I find the unorthodox names amusing. Again, while I would not choose such a name, I have absolutely no problem if someone else does so (I just hope those folks understand if I can’t pronounce or spell such names smile.gif ).

Much of the anger, and evil we see in the world is simply hatred of self. If you love yourself it is impossible to do evil to others.

When I look into the mirror I see all of us (white folks too) not just myself.

Erzulie Danto, you probably should have transfered schools. If you plan to enter a fortune 500 environment, you better get used to it -- only gets worse.

That said, surely you can find one or two friends in any environment to make life bearable. If you can't, either it is a unusually evil place, you have serious social skill issues or both. The former you can fix by changing environemnts the later will take a lot more effort to correct....

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First of all, Ms. Cynique, I apologize if I sounded rude or phony or stupid. It was not my intention to rub anybody the wrong way. That's the last thing that I wanted to do, and I'll do my best not to do so again. My health issues don't stem solely from culture shock--I have Bipolar Disorder, so that played an enormous role in my departure from school. I'm medicated, but I should warn you that every now and then, my posts will either read as manic or depressing. There isn't much anything I can do about that but I'm still lucid enough to contribute to forum discussions.

Just let me make just one thing clear, though: I'm not simple.

Do not speak to me as if I am simple. Do not call me names like "Sock puppet". Do not tell me to "get real". Don't attack me personally when you don't know me personally as I don't know you personally. I've no intention of doing anything other than treating you and everybody else on this board with the utmost respect to the best of my ability, and I expect the same treatment in return, ma'am. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me. If you disagree with me, feel free to question my logic. I'm willing to learn that way. You can be cynical towards me without being nasty and I'll take in what you say. I don't want to fight.

I'm well aware of the fact that all of the Black Culture in America is different. My own parents come from opposite ends of the spectrum and I have a rainbow coalition of family members on both sides, distant and not so distant that bring something to the table. Therefore, I know that different families raised in different communities bred in different realities will create different cultures. We don't all have the same experiences (and I apologize for not elaborating on that earlier) and shouldn't expect to greeted with the same prejudices or be burdened with questions they don't necessarily want to answer. If somebody wants doesn't care where they come from or how far back there mannerism or family traditions go, I can't make them. That isn't what's on most people's list of priorities; if that is the case they should hardly be demonized or scrutinized for it. My issue on the matter, ma'am is that when people do try to "do their own thing", they're met with opposition either from the White Corporate Circle or (depending on which it is) family or members of their own community. A non-European name shouldn't hinder your educational/ economic success, but apparently it does. Wanting to get in touch with your roots and being unapologetic about your Blackness (in whatever unique flavor or variation it is) should not be discouraged, but it is. You can do your own thing, but you can be made to feel stupid for it. With me personally? I went into an environment that mentally sandblasted me with its alieness, stressed me out, triggered my BD and sent me running home with my tail between my legs and half my brain oozing out of my ears. Now, am I proud of that? No. Do I hate myself for being so weak and cowardly and ill-prepared? Sure do. Do I want to be coddled or given special treatment. Hell no. You can control Bipolar Disorder and right now I'm learning how to do that, so there's no use in wallowing in my own self-pity. But for me personally, knowing about myself before I go back would be(along with my Lithium)the best medicine I could possibly have. That way, I'll have an anchor. That way, I can toughen myself up and get my diploma. I earned my right to have my education, and I'll be damned if I let them run me away from my diploma. I will major in English and Anthropology.

If someone doesn't care to know about roots or where their name comes from and all that jazz, cool. Like I said, nobody should be forced to do anything. However, they should have a right to know about their culture, if they should so choose to look into it. Nobody should feel like doing so will ruin their life. That's why I agree with Mr. Imhotep when he says knowing about yourself can possibly make you stronger, or at least can make you feel solid. Do I agree with him calling blacks self-hating for not caring about it as deeply as he does? No. But I can also see where he's coming from and can understand why he cares so much.

But once again, that's only my perspective. So... :unsure:

On a less icky note: Did you really get to meditate on a freaking PYRAMID? They actually let tourists do that? What was it like? What was the view like from up above and how much does it cost to take up in Egypt for vacation? (My sister is thinking of taking the family there for vacation, so it'd be good to know from somebody who already went. )Please and thank you. :D

For somebody who claims to be young and feigns humbleness, you certainly make a lot of demands and do a lot of lecturing. It goes without sayng here, that people can declare what ever their sentiments are and others are free to challenge. Welcome to the board. If you have thin skin, don't jump into the fray.

And I distinctly mentioned that the pyramid I meditated in, not on, was a cardboard one that I had purchased. So your insipid questions doesn't rate an answer.

BTW, your sock puppet vibe hasn't receded...

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Cynique of course it is self-hate.

And in reality it is not a Black issue it is a human one; though I may have cast it as such in my last example.

More broadly, consider the extreme case of someone who murders someone else. Some of us might say, "Wow they must have really hated that person to murder them". Murdering someone else is just an extreme manifestation of self hatred, turned outward.

Usually the manifestations are not as extreme. Sometimes we show it by being unnecessarily critical of others -- mean really.

Like you, I find the unorthodox names amusing. Again, while I would not choose such a name, I have absolutely no problem if someone else does so (I just hope those folks understand if I can’t pronounce or spell such names smile.gif ).

Much of the anger, and evil we see in the world is simply hatred of self. If you love yourself it is impossible to do evil to others.

When I look into the mirror I see all of us (white folks too) not just myself.

Erzulie Danto, you probably should have transfered schools. If you plan to enter a fortune 500 environment, you better get used to it -- only gets worse.

That said, surely you can find one or two friends in any environment to make life bearable. If you can't, either it is a unusually evil place, you have serious social skill issues or both. The former you can fix by changing environemnts the later will take a lot more effort to correct....

Gee, Troy, I just now saw this post, yet another reason for me to bemoan this convoluted new system, a gripe I will not go into detail about...

Anyhow, in response to your "philosophizing", I ask: Is it a case of self-hate, when one person shoots another in self-defense? Do you consider criticizing black gangsta rap a case of black self-hate on the part of the criticizers? Is a person who has corrective surgery guilty of self-hate? Obviously distinctions have to be made, and the catch-all category of self-hate does not lend itself well to generalizing.

As far as the subject of one black person disapproving of the name that other black people approve of goes, I still don't agree that someone is gulity of self-hate when they criticize others for doing something they would not, or do not do.

Five fingers make up a hand and when my middle finger flips someone off, I don't confuse it with my pinky finger. Why? Because they are 2 different digits. The same applies to the black race. One black person disapproving of what another black person does, does not necessarily constitute black hate because the whole is made up of individuals.

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Guest Shaniqua

Troy,

Xeon is a white supremacist posing as a black person. He was formally NTFS on the old thumper's former.

The reason why I know he is a white person posing as a black person? In one thread he referred to black women as "negresses" in a thread here. only a racist white person would use such a term. on stormfront they throw that term around all the time.

Now you are finally seeing this poster for who he truly is. I think he should be banned. It's really SICK how a racist mind works. they hate black people so much but cannot bring themselves to stop talking about us. even go as far as to pretending to be one on a forum for years.

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Guest SHANIQUA HOW YOU LIKE THAT

I can just imagine what the audience thinks of these Negresses and their fatherless multiple children and those loony names. Let's see, the job application has the name Monisha Tay Tay Jackson. Hmmmmmm.....Is she white? Latino? Maybe Asian? Could she be black? Naaaaahh......No way. Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

by Xeon

see it for yourself in this thread

He's a white person posing as a black person.

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Xeon what other rational reason is there for someone to get all in a huff over what someone else naming their child LaTryianna or Queteshia? Would you prefer a list of approved names that we can use to name our children?

Troy, it appears that you and I have totally different views about this name issue. I must admit that I am somewhat taken back by the fact you cannot see the silliness of these childish inane names and the self stigmatizing ghettoization of a generation of blacks post 1970. It’s so sad. I find it very difficult and perplexing to seriously debate this type of coonery. Sorry, but I can’t be nice about it or say it any other way. I guess you and I can be civil and agree to disagree and move on. And although we stand on different sides of the street on this issue, I still respect your opinions…..

There might only be one person in the entire country named "Abcde" but it does not matter; the self-hating Negro will point it out. Self-hating Negroes think they cane make up for the transgressions of the "misbehaving" Negro by calling him "stupid", "ignorant" or "uncivilized".

Wow! This is ridiculous. You seem to be seriously be missing something here Troy. Just because a black person does not subscribe or takes issues with monolithic group-think -does not mean they hate themselves. I have no idea how you came to such convoluted logical deduction. It makes no sense. Just because a person does not belong to the Black Borg, does not mean they do not want to be black or have issues with being black. It reminds me of what George Schuyler described as “Negro hokum”.You would be hard pressed to prove such an outrageous accusation. There is no way you could know something like that unless you possessed an individual's medical records, documenting their attempted suicides, history of self mutilation or an ongoing history asserting that they hated themselves.

I think you are confusing political dissention and independence from black groupthink. Every race and ethnicity has diverse and opposing views and politics. Are blacks not allowed the same freedom? Just because a black person disagrees with so-called nationalistic Afro-ology or rebukes the cancerous Negro dogma of victimization and entitlement, once again -does not they hate themselves. Why you believe a black person who disagrees with Al Sharpton, Louis Farrakhan, does not approve of these tragic but trendy doofus names or openly criticizes the Neo-Negro coon culture, some how -must hate themselves? Makes no sense whatsoever.

I believe reality would be best served if you would state your specific disagreement points with the individuals politics and leave the improvable cheap stolid “self-hate” accusations to those who are intellectually incapable of formulating a meaningful or salient argument.

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I was reminded of this old discussion by something I read in the news today. A University of Michigan professor has ranked the states according to which ones have the highest percentages of unusual baby names. In this case, "unusual" is defined as names that aren't in the national top-10 list of most popular names. I'm not sure about that logic, because by that definition, Robert and Mary count as unusual names. Maybe what the study actually identifies are the states with the least interest in the latest fads in baby names.

But if you accept the premise of the study, then it appears that whites are more prone to "distinctive" names than blacks. Setting aside the special case of Hawaii (a lot of people who are neither white nor black), unusual names are most common in states that are very white (12 out of 17 states with the highest frequency of unusual names). A few states with significant black population made the top-10 list for unusual girls' names (Mississippi, Georgia, Maryland, and South Carolina), but only one made the top-10 list for boys' names (Louisiana). Two interesting patterns: unusual boys' names have a regional cluster in the northwest, while unusual girls' have a southwest cluster.

The results:

The following is the study's ranked list of U.S. states where prevalence of common names is lowest (with No. 1 being the most individualistic), based on percentage of babies who had one of the top 10 most popular names of that year.

Boys' names:

Hawaii

Wyoming

Louisiana

Idaho

Oklahoma

Montana

Colorado

Nebraska

Washington

Oregon

Girls' names

Hawaii

New Mexico

Mississippi

Nevada

Georgia

Wyoming

Arizona

Alaska

Maryland

South Carolina

The professor attributes these results to a persistent pioneer spirit in the states that were most recently on the American frontier. But here's a reality check: in Hawaii, the state with the most "distinctive" names, 21 of the top 30 boys' names are from the Bible. Hard to see how that indicates a population with a maverick mindset and a hankerin' for something new.

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Names like Bob, Meredith, Constance, Clifford, Alice and James

only sound "normal" because you speak English.

You live in...and are informed from the day of birth by a combination

of White tribal affiliations be they Germanic, Greek, Victorian or

Polish and Italian. This is the dominant White culture and all of

us living here bask in "their acculturation."

Though Shaniqua and ShaQuonda are not African names--they would sound

far more organic and fitting to an African immigrant than "Jennifer."

That's because the African (the natural Black person) speaks African languages.

In Africa today, it's exotic to have Western names (Good Luck Jonathan, Jerry,

Facebook and Exxon). But since the late 1950's, there has been a virulent continental

revolution to depose all "Colonial" names and return to African tribal/clan names.

In my case---as with many BLACK North Africans---I refuse to publicly use my Arabic

birth name (Naima Bint Harith); though it's considered much prettier to many people

than my more West African-sounding pen name.

Many years ago, I wrote a 2 word poem "Kola Boof" and decided to take that poem as

my professional name. The poem represented being "been-to" (an African who has lived

outside Africa long enough to be acculturated by foreigners and returned home).

Kola = (a)the most beloved snack by African children (B) the supreme good-will

Boof = The specific sound of drums made with elephant ear tops--BOOF! Comes the

drums/Or in Nigeria the highest 'medallion' presented to warriors after war is the 'Boof.'

Kola Boof = The poem is reminiscent of my childhood silent movie idols Clara Bow and Betty Boop;

as silent movies became my only friends upon first arriving in America, because I couldn't speak

English.

NOTICE---if you take the words separately they are AFRICAN; but if you join the two words

together (Kola Boof); they become WESTERN (in my mind like Betty Boop is Western).

I have what is called a "Been-to" name and I write "Been-to" poetry as opposed to Haiku.

But few African-American writer/scholars are able to appreciate or even notice these small

but profound intricacies.

___________________________

(NOTE: There is a pediatrician at Cedar Sinai Hospital

named Dr. Shaniqua and there's also a Dr. Kianna and a

Nurse Tameko. All have tended my sons.)

___________________________

MY POINT:

When we Blacks find ourselves disgusted by the name "Shaniqa" but not the Japanese name "Yoko Shimada"

---it is because #1--we compulsively reject 'perceived' overt blackness and #2--our dominant language

is English. Our reaction is indeed (95% of the time), like Troy said, a form of self-hatred.

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Haha!!! BTW...I don't like my children's names.

Their father (a pure blooded Garifuna from Belize,

Central America)named them popular Black Central American

names--Arnofo and Wombe.

I would have named them Cedric and Troy (which has nothing to do

with Troy Johnson; I have always liked that name since I was a

child because Troi in my birth mother's "Oromo" language means

the lazy lion cub who chose to be our house pet).

But they are extremely successful boys. Much like their

father and me.

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I am among those who squint at the multi-syllabic names replete with apostrophes that black baby mamas brand their kids with, names which can come back to haunt their offspring when a tight-assed paper shuffler in the human resources department decides she'd rather hire Stephanie Longworth instead of D'Shaquinta Jackson for the opening in Customer Relations. :(

But, I also scowl at the silly names white women give their daughters which rather than being made-up, refer to an object or a place like "Apple" or "Brooklyn", or are taken from surnames like Taylor or MacKinzie. Not only do high profile goof balls think their giving birth is an event of world-wide significance, they regard their choice of a name as a proclamation wherein the more cutely-contrived it is, the better. :huh:

No denying, names prejudice me. Even simpler ones like “Kayla” or “Travis” evoke images of trailer park lovers having a showdown on Jerry Springer's show, and any namesake of “Jesus” doesn’t exactly bring a pious savior to mind. When I meet a home grown black person who has taken an Arabic or African name, I immediately categorize him as someone with a deep-seeded need for self-identity, and I know before long this person will blitz me with the patented dialog about white slave masters and African nobleness, yada yada yada all in an attempt to penetrate my self-esteem even as I stifle a yawn. <_<

I know as I grow older I lose my relevancy, and time brings change. There is no accounting for taste and I have no defense for my rejection of what I consider “non-traditional” except to opine that a name should not be a tongue-twister that obliterates the person who bears it. The less odd the name, the easier it is for the uniqueness of an individual to manifest itself. I'm a sucker for a name like “Ian” or “Mia”. John and Mary also work just fine for me. :mellow:

I, myself, was named after an aunt. I go by a nickname but my given name is a 4-syllable Spanish one which my mother thought was “pretty”. Hispanics hear my name and think I’m Puerto Rican. I never know whether to laugh or cry… :P

BTW, I always liked the name “Troy”, too. Before I ever became acquainted with our fearless leader, I named a character in one of my books, “Troy”. :rolleyes:

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My mom says while watching TV with my father one night they saw the actor Troy Donahue. My mom says my father said, "Troy, that is the name I want for my son". Nice to know the name has an African origin -- though I wish it meant something like "fearless lion cub who refuses to be a house pet".

I admit I used to be more critical of unusual or "made up" names. I saw a documentary recently where a Brother described the names he came across studying stidents. There were 200 spellings of the name "Uniquue", incuding a version that went something like "Uneeqee". Now little "Uneeqee" did not choose her name, so I'm not about to hold it against her (or him).

Beside most of the names I through where silly actually have African origins like "Shaniqua"; a name which drew the ire of many older people when it became popular about 30 years ago.

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Haha!!!

Troi (pronounced Troy) is that certain lion cub out of a litter who wants

TO EAT FREE and not be out in the cold. LOL! The name is also used to mean

"teacher's pet" in school. The smart kid who always wants to sit up front and

raise their hand gets called "Troi."

Of course girls aren't allowed to do that.

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The late Troy Donohue and actor Sidney Poitier were contemporaries although at the opposite ends of the spectrum with Troy being a blond, blue-eyed teen idol. I wonder if any white parents saw "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner?" which starred Poiter and decided to name their new born son "Sidney". ;)

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Ok Xeon, lets try it this way. Do you approve of the name "Shaniqua"?

Ha! Ha! Ha! That’s funny. Bro Troy, you really don’t want to know what I think of the name Shaniqua. But since you asked, it’s interesting that yesterday and earlier today, two friends of mine (one is a medical doctor and the other works for the country court system) had a conversation about this very tragic subject. Needless to say, they were not very sympathetic nor supportive of this post 1970 self immolating coonery. You and I have butted heads over this very subject before and to be honest, I was really taken back by your defense of it. So, this time, I don’t see the need to go down this tormented path again. We can be civil and agree to disagree. If I have to argue or debate this particular subject, I’m going to do what my best friend suggested –don’t! He said, before you engage in these things, there should be a minimum level of intelligence or credibility to the topic. If not, you are wasting your time. Debating the validity and consequences of doofy made up childish names like Chanwquela, DeViessa, LaQuetta, Montraisha, Na’Shundra, Zakahra, etc…(yes, those are actual names Negroes gave their children), is pointless. As I said, the best I can do is say we will agree to disagree and move on. I’m sure there are many other topics and issues that we can agree with….

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Xeon OK.

While I would not name my kid one of those names; when it is all said an done I don't have any problem with someone that does.

Actaully i take that back, the names for English speaking American children conform the the following conventions

  1. Phonetically correct (if one sounded the name out it should should match the intended pronunciation)
  2. Should not require dash to spell
  3. A "u" should follow the "q"
  4. The name should conatin at least one vowel
  5. Should use only letters
  6. Only the first letter of name should require capitalization
  7. ideally 12 letters or less in length
This is only to make it easier for OTHERS who have to deal with the jacked up names some ppeople make up.

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While I would not name my kid one of those names; when it is all said an done I don't have any problem with someone that does.

Yep! And that's the problem.......

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Xeon This is not a problem, but a consequence of freedom.

You don't like the name Shaniqua, but you can't say why. Where do you draw the line with names? Does name have to be included in some 1950's baby name book to past muster with you?

I have no problem with Shaniqua, but I would have a problem with Shaniqa or Shah'Kneeqwaa for the reasons mentioned. Again, if someone chose to use those names that is entirely up to the parent.

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Xeon This is not a problem, but a consequence of freedom. You don't like the name Shaniqua, but you can't say why. Where do you draw the line with names? Does name have to be included in some 1950's baby name book to past muster with you?

It's not a problem but a consequence of freedom? Ha! Ha! Ha! That's funny. But I don't think so. Having the legal right to has nothing to do with this particular subject. And if you want to reduce the reality of a post 1970 self-ghettoization of a generation of Negroes with buffoon coon names to personal freedom, well....there's not much more to be said. You have the right to stab yourself in the eye with a lead pencil if you want to although it's something I personally wouldn't recommend; "Yo! I'm going to stick a sharp pencil in my eye because...well,it's you know...being different. Yeah, I know it probably will hurt a little but what the hell, it's my right to do so. It's called personal freedom bro. What? You have a problem with dat?" And there ya have it. As I said before Troy, if you can't see this ongoing self inflicting apocryphal travesty, there isn't much more I can say. Not worth my time nor yours to explain or debate the obvious. I guess we can break out a few cold brewski's and talk about our passion for Malcolm X or the music of Miles Davis. Something I'm sure we can agree on.......

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In criticizing a name we are making a judgement. A name, per se, is neither bad nor good because a name is, after all, just a series of syllables, - and an utterance of sounds. So, good and bad are relative. Is it "good" that certain people will discriminate against a person because of her name? Is it bad for a mother to call a child a name that will invoke such discrimination. Who is to say?

Furthermore, it's impossible to be objective about a name. I dont like the names "Prudence" or "Maude" any more than I like "Shequeeka" or "N'quisha", but that's just me.

Names can typify an era as well as reflect an ethnicity. Liking an old-fashioned traditional name like "Abigail" could be considered comparable to liking high-button shoes. Honoring your German family heritage could result in naming a daugher "Hilda", but circumstances don't give these "white" names preference over ghetto names when it comes to whether or not they are "pretty".

In 2011, things are different and it's hard to reverse a trend, which is why I'm reaching the point where I don't give a damn what ugly or crazy-assed names people named their squalling brats. It's not my problem. :unsure:

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Cynique: Preach, Ma, Preach!.

Xeon: A Brew and Miles -- sounds liek a plan!

Carmelgirl: Thanks for making it plain! Cool avatar I gotta make me one of those

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I feel that folks should name their chilluns wtf they want....but be mindful of the future, real talk!

Well, it's not a question of the legal right to do so. Legally being able to name a child what you desire is not in question. It's the long term consequences of a generation of self ghettoization via buffoonish names and a collective obsessing with names ending with the "a" vowel (WTF?). But sadly, it is what it is......Oh yeah, I love that avatar.....

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