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NAACP Says, Avoid Missouri.

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NAACP  Says To The  Stay From The State Of Missouri,They Can Fire You From A Business Based On Discrimination ,And Get Away With It ..Is The  New NAACP President A Black Woman? Quarterback Colin  Kaepernick ,The  Lunatic President Trump Says He Is The Reason Kaepernick Is Not A Quarterback Yet..Football. Players Caught With Drugs, Steroids, Sexual Assault,Domestic Violence Playing .Pro Football,After Being ,Suspended. Mike Vick .Says Colin  Kaepernick Should Cut  His,Afro. His Afro. ? Colin Kaepernick Afro Has Nothing To Do With. Why  Kaepernick Not Being Signed With .A Football Team..Mike Vick Dog Fighting ,Dog Killing ,Got .A  Quarterback Job With Philadelphia Eagles..After He Got Out Of Prison..Police, Are Being Rehired After Being Fired. Police Involved In Unjustified,Shootings. .White Police Have Been Fired For Being,Klan Members. Klan .Is  A Violent Terrorist Organization..White Police Fired For Targeting Black .Drivers,Last Year. This Year White Police Fired For Stomping,Kicking A Black Man On. The Ground.....They Should Talk. About This ,When They,Talk About Quarterback Colin Kaepernick...

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Harry this is why signing a petition to get Colin a job is a very superficial way to deal with cultural racism or even the NFL itself.

 

The message (below) from the NAACP's Missouri branch sounds very serious--almost alarmist.  I'll heed their message and avoid the state.  I've been several times, but admittedly there is no need or even desire for me to go again.

 

I did get wind of this travel advisory in an email from Black America Web, but I did not read their article or follow up to find the source until now.  Below is their press release (emphasis is mine) from http://www.monaacp.org/urgent-missouri-travel-advisory/

 


cropped-logo-150.png

MISSOURI NAACP STATE CONFERENCE OFFICE
P. O. BOX 104221
JEFFERSON CITY,
MISSOURI 65110
PHONE 844-NAACP-HELP
www.MONAACP.ORG
maryann.grayson@sbcglobal.net


URGENT – MISSOURI TRAVEL ADVISORY
June 7, 2017


(Jefferson City, MO – Missouri NAACP State Conference Office) A travel advisory has been issued in the State of Missouri due to the sad passage of Senator Gary Romine’s Jim Crow Bill – SB 43 – and recent events throughout Missouri.


The advisory means each individual should pay special attention while in the state of Missouri and certainly if contemplating spending time in Missouri. Unlike seasonal weather advisories, where no unnecessary travel on city streets or parking might be directed, the NAACP wants to make Missourians and our visitors aware of looming danger which could include the following by example of what has happened to some residents and visitors:


Tory Sanford who recently died in a jail cell but was never arrested after running out of gas when he traveled into the state accidently; Racist attacks on University of Missouri students while on the states’ campuses – as the University of Missouri System spoke in favor of Romine’s Jim Crow Bill;


Missouri’s legislature Representative Rick Bratton argued that homosexuals are not human beings according to his faith; Black high school students in St. Louis have been attacked with hot glue while denigrated racially;


Two internationally born men gunned down outside in Kansas City after their killer thought them to be Muslim;


According to the Missouri Attorney General African Americans in Missouri are subjected to excessive traffic - 75% more likely to be stopped and searched based on skin color than Caucasians, Public threats of shooting ‘Blacks’ that terrorized University of Missouri students and members of the public.


Individuals traveling in the state are advised to travel with extreme CAUTION. Race, gender and color based crimes have a long history in Missouri. Missouri, home of Lloyd Gaines, Dredd Scott and the dubious distinction of the Missouri Compromise and one of the last states to loose its slaveholding past, may not be safe. The Missouri State Conference of the NAACP will follow Governor Greitien’s review of this Jim Crow Bill – SB 43 – and we will update the NAACP advisory for the State of Missouri if this measure is vetoed. SB 43 legalizes individual discrimination and harassment in Missouri and would prevent individuals from protecting themselves from discrimination, harassment, and retaliation in Missouri.


Moreover, over zealous enforcement of routine traffic violations in Missouri against African-Americans has resulted in an increasing trend that shows African-Americans are 75% more likely to be stopped than Caucasians. These stops have resulted in increased traffic fines, senseless searches of vehicle and persons, and on occasion unnecessary violence.


The advisory is in effect until at least August 28, 2017 starting today. The Missouri State Conference NAACP asked that you do the following:


warn your families, co-workers and anyone visiting Missouri to beware of the safety concerns with travel in Missouri, notify members of your trade associations, social and civic organizations that they are traveling and living in Missouri at their own risk and subject to unnecessary search seizure and potential arrest, and


file and seek help on any existing claims for discrimination, harassment, retaliation, and whistle blowing ASAP before your legal rights are lost if Senate Bill 43 is not vetoed by Governor Greitiens. VISIT www.MONAACP.org - LIKE Missouri NAACP State Conference Facebook – FOLLOW @MOSTATE for additional information and updates. To file reports of harassment and discrimination and get help call 1-844-NAACP-HELP. Contact Governor Greitiens at 573-751-3222, @ericgreitiens and ask him to make Missouri safe for our families.

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What's next?

Are they going to issue a warning for Black folks to stay out of the United States all together?

I can't believe this punkafied GARBAGE.

See THIS is one of the reasons (just one of many) why so many people from other nations have such little respect for Black Americans when they come here.

Instead of telling Black folks to GO to Missouri in mass numbers and FIGHT and DEMAND respect and justice, they're telling Black folks to run and hide.
Be scared.
Be afraid.
Duck and dodge and avoid any confrontation at all costs!!!!!


On top of that......
Did whoever came up with this memo even stop to consider the hundreds of thousands of Black people who ALREADY LIVE in Missouri in cities like St.Louis and Kansas City?

What are THEY supposed to do?
Pack up and leave?
Hunker down, stop driving, and be quiet?

What about South Carolina where there were 2 high profile racist killings of Black people?
Are they gonna send out a memo on that state next?


This is an absolute shame and embarassment that so many goddam punks have positions of leadership.


Sorry ladies, I don't mean to sound sexist but this is what 40 years of the Black family being raised primarily by single mothers have done to the Black American community.

Many of our men no longer think like men, but like women....abused and victimized women at that.
 

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@Pioneer1Too bad it's necessary to have to consider either your option or The NAACP's suggestion  in this country where you assert that black people are not even respected by immigrants.  A compelling portrait of the country you love and claim as your own.  And you really think that if black folks descended upon Missouri with the intent to  reform, that this would produce better results than Colin Kaepernick's kneeling.  Get Real. If what you suggest erupts in violence, the governor of Missouri would call out the National Guard with Trump's full approval, and there would be mass bloodshed  in a futile effort.   The black folks in Missouri apparently have figured out how to navigate through this horrible situation in their state and are managing to cope on an individual basis, and probably aren't interested in interlopers from other states descending on Missouri, starting something they can't finish.  

 

Missouri isn't even a southern state and what's happening there is an omen of things to come.  This country is regressing, reverting back to what Trump and his rabid followers think will make America great again.  Black folks are suffering from the hangover of slavery.  That's why they can't rally and unite.  Slavery broke their spirit, and they would rather chase the almighty dollar and embrace materialism to assuage their ineffectiveness and  impotency.  The System is hard to beat because when all is said done white people of all persuasions are not willing to relinquish the upper hand and they got the wherewithal to enforce their superior position.  

 

The NAACP is outing Missouri, exposing it for what its; a microcosm of this bull shit country that grows more disgraceful by the day. Your beloved America.  

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I'm not suprised at your comments.
You'e a woman.....and SHOULD think like a woman.

Women say:
"We're trapped. There's nothing we can do, so we might as well stay strong and deal with it the best way we can. Whatever we do....let's not make them White folks angry!"

Most men say:
"I'd rather die than put up with some bullshit like that.
I'm about to go down there and put my foot in somebody's ass."


One of the biggest reasons that women are abused more than men isn't just the physical strength differences, but the mentality.
Most men would rather die fighting than put up with certain abuses and violations, even most police officers know this.
The problem is THAT aspect of masculinity has been drilled out of many Black men BY THEIR MOTHERS.
It started in slavery when the father was abscent (often because he was killed) that the Black mother was the only parents and didn't want to see her son get killed so she made sure she suppressed signs of aggressiveness in him to keep him alive.

So now Black Americans are still alive, but look at the state our community is in today.

Other masculine traits like territorialism was also suppressed in many Black males.

As I said before, many foreigners can readily recognize this dysfunction in Black people when the come to the United States and take advantage of it.
Look at how many Asians and Arabs have completely taken over the businesses in most Black neighborhoods in the United States.
Look at the amount of Latinos who have taken over jobs Black men used to have.

There is no way Black males in their natural psychological state would allow this.  There would have been riots the first year we saw foreign people coming in buying businesses in our community and it would have ended immediately.

Look at how men act in other nations around the world.  Riots break out when men perceieve immigrants as taking their jobs.
Hell, even White men in America get angry at the thought of foreigners taking their jobs and businesses.

If you notice, that's not even on the radars of most Black men.  Many will fight another Black man over a disrespectful look before fighting a Mexican over a good job because of the mentality that was instilled in him during slavery by his mother and the slave master.

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@Pioneer1  One question:  When are YOU and all of your bravado going to muster a brigade of stout-hearted black men and head for Missouri???  Talk is cheap.  

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@Pioneer1, I can see where your comments might sound like they might make sense as they conform to the current gender stereotypes.  As a man, it would sound appealing because it make us sound strong and powerful.

 

If what you say is true, how do you explain Black men, many straight from the African continent, allowing themselves to be enslaved for hundreds of years in this country?  Why didn't we just put our foot in massa's ass back then? 

 

Perhaps the reason we did not do it back then explains why we don't do it today...

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On 8/6/2017 at 0:23 AM, Cynique said:

Black folks are suffering from the hangover of slavery.  That's why they can't rally and unite.  Slavery broke their spirit, and they would rather chase the almighty dollar and embrace materialism to assuage their ineffectiveness and  impotenc


This is truth!!!

4 hours ago, Troy said:

how do you explain Black men, many straight from the African continent, allowing themselves to be enslaved for hundreds of years in this country?  Why didn't we just put our foot in massa's ass back then? 


@Troy  This!!!  

When black women can stop marching in the streets begging  white society to stop gunning down black men , that's when I'll take "black man bravado" seriously.    

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4 hours ago, Troy said:

f what you say is true, how do you explain Black men, many straight from the African continent, allowing themselves to be enslaved for hundreds of years in this country?  Why didn't we just put our foot in massa's ass back then? 

   Well, you can go back even further and ask why Africans allowed Europeans to invade and colonize their countries and strip their continent of all its resources.  It's not all about black males being chicken but about their being faced with and discouraged by superior firepower and overwhelming odds. All of which led to their adopting different ways of coping with adverse conditions; which sometimes included using their guile to go-one-on-one  with their oppressors and outsmarting them .

 

Being fool hardy shouldn't be confused with being  admirable. "Pride goeth before a fall". 

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Cynique

One question: When are YOU and all of your bravado going to muster a brigade of stout-hearted black men and head for Missouri??? Talk is cheap.


Why should me or any other Black man GO to Missouri to confront White racists in that state when you have HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Black people already there?

I have fought and defeated racism (and suspected racism) both on the street level and the government level IN MY OWN LOCALITY.
I'm still going at it with the state of Michigan over the Flint water situation.
I have enough in my OWN state to deal with, I'm not going 1000 miles to go fight for a bunch of cowards who wouldn't appreciate a victory if it were handed to them on a silver plater.

Negroes have a bad habit of wanting someone ELSE to do for them what they should be doing for themselves.





Well, you can go back even further and ask why Africans allowed Europeans to invade and colonize their countries and strip their continent of all its resources. It's not all about black males being chicken but about their being faced with and discouraged by superior firepower and overwhelming odds. All of which led to their adopting different ways of coping with adverse conditions; which sometimes included using their guile to go-one-on-one with their oppressors and outsmarting them .


I don't have to ASK why.
I believe they wer able to do it because they were smarter and more organized.
I believe in many cases Whites are STILL smarter and more organized.

I'm not advocating that Black men start grabbing guns and going to Missouri to go toe-to-toe with White people if that's what's on your mind.

I'm saying use the resources at your disposal to FIGHT FOR YOUR COMMUNITY instead of turning up your tail and running away.




Troy

If what you say is true, how do you explain Black men, many straight from the African continent, allowing themselves to be enslaved for hundreds of years in this country? Why didn't we just put our foot in massa's ass back then?

Some did.
You have many records of successful slave revolts, and don't forget the Haitian Revolution.
But for the most part Black people kept losing because White people were simply smarter and more technologically advanced.

I believe back in those days before the minds of Black men were "broken" you had more who were willing to die confronting White racism than see themselves and their women and children subjected to it and be regulated a state of subhumanity.

But I'm not blaming Blacks BACK THEN for their predicament, I'm blaming Black people TODAY who have more rights and resources and tools at their disposal to effectively defeat atleast SOME ELEMENTS of White racism in the United States but refuse to do so.

We have Black judges, police officers, doctors, lawyer, legislatures, ect......all in the state of Missouri who COULD unite and do something like those college football players did at Mizzou......but so far they've been silent and M.I.A.



Both

It should be understood that although I think all MENTALLY BALANCED Black people in the United States should own a gun, I wasn't advocating that Black people go to Missouri and start a race war....lol.

There are hundreds of ways to fight what's going on without direct physical confrontation.
I'm sure there are plenty of negroes in Missouri with Doctorate Degrees like there are in just about every other state.
If they're smart enough to get a Doctorate, then they should be smart enough to strategize a plan to counter the racism in their state.

My calling them cowards has less to do with their ability to use violence to achieve justice, my problem is the fact that instead of confronting and dealing with the issues of that state they choose to take the cowardly route of telling Black people to STAY AWAY.

Yes, fight back PHYSICALLY if someone threatens to assault you.
But most of the problems aren't coming from White people rolling up on Black folks and jumping out of their trucks beating on them, it's coming from policies from the government and law enforcement.
There are hundreds if not thousands of Black people ALREADY IN MISSOURI (Cynique...no need for me to go there) who could put an end to the madness if they had the balls to stand up and confront it.

History has shown that the only time Black people have any success against White supremacy is when they confronted it and FIGHT BACK instead of running.
There's no way around it.

That crap the NAACP put out was absolutely unacceptable.

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Pioneer you mis-attributed a quote to me.

 

But in reaction to the statement that I made.  Sure there were some that fought back.  Indeed there were always some that fought back, but not enough to make a difference.

 

 

Forget about physically fighting white folks; they are armed to the teeth, out number us, have the support and backing of the government, and already have itchy trigger fingers...

 

We can accomplish much more by exploiting on our own economic and intellectual capital.

 

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On 8/5/2017 at 8:16 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Instead of telling Black folks to GO to Missouri in mass numbers and FIGHT and DEMAND respect and justice, they're telling Black folks to run and hide.
Be scared.
Be afraid.
Duck and dodge and avoid any confrontation at all costs!!!!!

@Pioneer1 You're the one advocating that black people  to go to Missouri and fight  and demand respect and justice.  Now you're backtracking, proving that your rally cry  is a lot of hot air. 

 

There's nothing silly about the NAACP's travel warning.  It's a public service for black folks who aren't inclined to risk their lives by trespassing  on the dangerous territory of white bigots operating in the true American tradition of discriminating against blacks.  Your country! 

 

You've  previously suggested that black people stand up and act like Americans  in order to win their rights, which is just another way of saying put your foot on the necks of those beneath you and use them as stepping stones to a better life for yourself; something blacks can't do because they are on the bottom on the heap and there's  nobody under them to put their feet on the necks of.  Your country. You wish.  If this place really belonged to you, all of your frustrated ranting wouldn't be necessary.  

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Troy
 

We can accomplish much more by exploiting on our own economic and intellectual capital.

 

But the problem is, the NAACP isn't even advocating THAT.

Their only solution is warning Black folks to avoid the state.
To run off somewhere and hide.
 

 

 

 

Cynique and Mel
 

I want to thank you two for your perfect illustration of WHY so many Black men are skeptical of standing up and fighting for their community.

Not that I necessarily agree with them...........
But many Black men refuse to stand up and fight for Black women even when they're told to because they feel most Black women are indifferent and could care less about their efforts.

Many Black men don't stand up and fight for Black women because many don't feel Black women are worth fighting for.
They don't feel that their efforts would even been appreciated let alone rewarded.

Now I personally don't agree with this because I have a core group of sisters who have supported MY efforts over the years, so I know better.....but younger less experienced Black men hear the same type of talk YOU TWO exhibit constantly and they tell me how demoralizing it is and how they'd rather not even get involved in politics or community work.

When Cynique chides me about Black men standing up in Missouri and Mel takes on a "I'll believe it when I see it" attitude, those are great examples of the attitude too many Black women take towards Black men who attemp to defend their community.

Which is why the community is continually left defenseless.

 

Now just in another thread both of you were heaping praise on some Black man hopping around on one foot with yellow highlights in his hair looking like a gay-as-a-rainbow monkey and talking about how successful HE is.

https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/4618-oh-my-nicki-minaj/

But now you're clowning and throwing shade on the idea of Black men who refuse to run and hide but stand up and deal with racism head on.


We need BLACK Sarah Palins who are in love with strong Black men and willing to get behind Black men who are actually protecting the community and their families.
We need Black women who are CHEER LEADERS for masculine Black men instead of Black women who praise Tupac and the neighborhood criminals.

Women are the cheerleaders.
Whenever you want a group of men to accomplish something, just hire a group of women to cheer them on and tell them how sexy they are when they do it and you'll see men perform superhuman feats!

But it can also work the opposite way.
If you want to drag a community down to the level of a beast, just find a way to condition the women of that society to like it that way and the men will do their best competiting with eachother to keep it in that savage condition.

I believe the Black community would be FAR more advanced if Black women collectively would take the love and respect that they heap on criminals, clowns, and homosexual Black men.....and concentrate it on Black men who are actually making a difference in our community.

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Break out the violins. Poor ol black men.  :(  Puleeze.  Your  lament  about their plight is full  of  cherry-picked  BS.  Black women do support worthy black men.  Who do you think got Obama elected?  Who do you think marched with MLK?  Who do you think  were in the trenches with the Black Panthers?  Who do you think helped found the NAACP  in spite of the black men who wanted black women to butt out and stay in in their place?  It was a black woman, Ida B Wells, who tirelessly crusaded against the lynching  of black men all through the 1920s and 30s. Black women have been supporting worthy black men since slavery, in spite of the male chauvinism that  threads the black community.  In spite of how so many of male black leaders marry white women once they make it big.  Get outta here with all of that whining and finger-pointing. Black woman like nothing better than to get behind a black man who can walk it as well as talk it.  Black women are supporting Colin Kaepernick while black men like you are dragging their feet, criticizing a brotha whose methods they don't like.  

 

Furthermore, you don't even know whether or not the black people in  Missouri are mounting strategies and plans to use the ballot to bring about reform , as opposed to stirring up hornet nests that will incite violence and fail at getting anything done.   Singling out Missouri as a racist state and publicizing this, is a strategy in itself.  Travel advisories are nothing new and undoubtedly date back to the "green book" a pamphlet put out by a black man beginning around the 1940s, advising  black drivers what places to avoid when traveling through the Jim Crow south. Google "green book" for more info. 

 

At least Troy knows his dream of black unity via boycotts is a fantasy but you continue to romanticize and dramatize  Afro-American  men taking up arms against injustice which could  be a ticket to genocide.  You're expecting brothers  to do what nobody else, including white men, in this country are of a mind to do  in the year 2017.  Bringing down the incompetent buffoon Donald Trump is the one thing  that could inspire Americans of all colors and persuasions  to stand up and  do battle for.  

 

 

 

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Cynique

I said Black men in Missouri should FIGHT as opposed to running away, who said anything about "taking up arms" as a solution?


Again, I didn't say Black men should go to Missouri and start a race war, I said go to Missouri in mass numbers.....or better yet the Blacks who are STILL IN Missouri should go there and FIGHT the racism head on.
And again, there are hundreds of ways both legally and politically to fight the racism that occurs, not just in Missouri but in nearly every state in the Union.
As long as you DO SOMETHING instead of cutting and running as the NAACP advises.

You give the example of Colin as as some "Black man fighting" while you argue with ME.....
But if you were arguing with HIM you'd dismiss his strategy and go to pointing at some other Black character just to shade on him and demoralize HIS efforts.
Because that's what too many of our women do.....go out of their way to DEMORALIZE thier own men instead of standing behind them and their ideas.
Then get angry when they look around and can't figure out why so many Black men refuse to fight for them.

I remember during one event me and some other brothers were hosting the AfroAmerican women in the AfroAmerican women were being so loud and confrontational and un-cooperative that we had to go down to the NIGERIAN market and convince some young AFRICAN WOMEN to come in and join us as a show of force because we couldn't even trust that our own women were gonna act right in doing it....lol.

You talk about Black men being demoralized by the overwhelming force of White technology but I wonder which has been the BIGGEST demoralizing factor in the efforts of Black men.....

White technology.....or lack of support from our own women?

Makes Black men wonder if it's even worth fighting for because look at what they might get as a reward.

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Well obviously black men and women are at odds.  Each group feels let down by the other one.  And anecdotal evidence is offered up as proof of this.. Sistas do tend to support each other, while black men's egos get in the way and they are more interested in advancing their individual cause and are competitive in doing so. I repeat, black women are willing to support a capable and trustworthy black male.  Any objectionable behavior on their part is usually the end result of being disappointed after investing their hopes in black men who couldn't make the grade.    The conflict between black men and women remains an ongoing situation. 

 

And you assume that the black men in Missouri are not "fighting", just because you haven't heard anything about them doing so.You're too busy chiding them for not doing what you think is the best course for something you know nothing about.

 

BTW, how's your "fighting" to resolve the water problem in  Flint, Michigan, workin out?  

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Cynique, the operative word in your last post was "anecdote."  Pioneer has a bad habit of taking his personal experiences and extending them to the broader community, indeed it is the way he sees the world.

 

But this is natural, for anecdotes, especially personal ones, are very powerful.  If is a good thing Pioneer is open to being in a place where his world view is rejected by others with different beliefs, experiences, and even facts.  I respect him for that.

 

@Pioneer1, you have so profoundly mischaracterized what I believe it would be too strenuous to refute what you wrote.  I'll just let my previously expressed words do that.

 

I will say however, that @Cynique and @Mel Hopkins's presence  here is a prime example of Black women supporting a Black man.  You see they, like you, could easily abandon AALBC.com and engage exclusively on the corporate owned social media platforms.  This forum only exists because of folks like you.  

 

Now I could very easily complain about all the Black women, writers in particular, who benefit directly (read: financially)  from the existence and efforts of AALBC.com, but do nothing to support the website.  This of course would feed into your narrative and is actually supported  by 20 years of my experience and data.

 

Here's the thing, even though I have experience with supporting hundreds of Black women authors over a 20 year period, my experience is still an anecdote.  I have absolutely no problem saying that Black female writers, for the most part do not support the website as much as I think they should (IMHO), but it would be wrong for me to use this experience to say that Black women do not support Black men in general.  Do you see my point?

 

Further, I also understand way Black female writers do not support the site as much as they should. Part of the reason is that don't know how to do it and why it matters.  I also understand the pull of social media. it is so strong many writers have abandoned their own websites in favor of social media.  Many Black women are struggling, like me, and don't really have the resources/time/energy to extend to others beyond themselves or their families.

 

Of course there are some Black women who hate to see a Brother succeed and withhold support because they want an AALBC.com to fail, but these women are so small a factor they are not worth considering.

 

That said, I think the letter was an overreaction and ill conceived.  Using their reasoning each chapter could easily craft a letter warning travelers to avoid most of Florida, Chicago, New York City, Baltimore, Detroit, New Orleans, Philadelphia, the entire state of Mississippi, etc.  

 

I've been to Missouri a few times, mostly for conventions, and once for a family reunion. The have nice library and ball park, but again, I have no trouble avoiding the state--especially if a Black institution says it is not safe.  

 

Besides who says they are not ready to fight in Missouri?  I'll disparage the letter, but I'm not willing to trash the Black male population of a state because I don't have enough information and I won't judge it on one letter from the NAACP.

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@Pioneer1   Not sure what you mean about support a black man or black men?  What does that even mean?   Talk is cheap..and even misguided when talking about going up against a very entrenched system such institutionalized racism ... If the president of the NAACP issues a travel warning for a state he lives in, then I'm going to support him in his observation that this spot ain't safe and  there's nothing he can do to keep me safe should I choose to ignore the warning.  All I got for him is "Thanks for the heads up". At least he gave a warning.  

Black men couldn't even keep us safe when it came to some of us being brought over by slave ships and enslaved...

Maybe I missed it, but I don't remember the story of "African men saying leave the African women and take us only"  I don't even think there were "his and her" slave ships.

 I think everyone was chained up together in the belly cargo-hold side by side top to bottom..

So please with that "our women" don't support us crap.     Now you want black women to run to Missouri with you too?  

Sarah and n'em  didn't bring black men into this world.

Black women made that choice.  

But now it's not enough that black male babies come from our behinds? That we house black babies  in our bodies for 10 months, have them suckle our breast for 24 more months and coddle black male babies at the expense of our black girl babies?  Now we need to continue supporting black grown azz men  in their shenanigans too?  

Just stop. 
 

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Look.....
I'm not trying to turn this issue into a "Black woman bashing" session nor am I trying to start a gender war. MY PERCEIVED lack of support for positive AfroAmerican men by many if not most AfroAmerican women is just ONE of the problems I see in the Black community....among many others.

I've been wanting to bring this issue up for a while but because Cynique was the only woman on this board, I didn't feel like it would be fair. Now that Mel is posting more regularly I felt a little more obligated to speak SOME of my mind on the issue.


Cynique


Well obviously black men and women are at odds. Each group feels let down by the other one. And anecdotal evidence is offered up as proof of this.. Sistas do tend to support each other, while black men's egos get in the way and they are more interested in advancing their individual cause and are competitive in doing so


Well, I applaud the fact that you'd atleast admit such an obvious fact as Black women sticking together......especially when it comes to sticking together against Black men.
And you're also right about Black men's egos getting in the way which is often one of the biggest reasons that prevents them from uniting.

However the difference between us is I don't believe that united Black men would go as hard against Black women as united Black women go hard against Black men.
I think Black men...more than Black women....see RACISM as our biggest enemy, not the Black woman.

 

 

. I repeat, black women are willing to support a capable and trustworthy black male.

Yes SOME Black women are.
I can testify to this fact because I know hundreds who do.
But I've seen MORE who will NOT support capable and trustworthy Black men nor even give them a CHANCE to see if they're capable or trustworthy or not.
They don't even get the benefit of the doubt first, and this is disturbing.
The reasons for this are manifold, and the majority of it....I will admit....lays with Black men.
But I believe it's a fact none the less that most Black women don't support Black men regardless as to the reason.

I really think a new generation of girls will have to be brought up SEEING positive strong Black men in action before that trust and support is restored.
It will happen though.


And you assume that the black men in Missouri are not "fighting", just because you haven't heard anything about them doing so.You're too busy chiding them for not doing what you think is the best course for something you know nothing about.

I haven't condemned the Black men of Missouri.
My criticizm has strictly been aimed at that punk ass NAACP memo and those who whipped it up.




 

BTW, how's your "fighting" to resolve the water problem in Flint, Michigan, workin out?

Right now, no where near as well as I'd like.
One of the reasons is I'm not as involved with it as I was so I'm not putting as much effort into it.

....and the main reason for THAT is exemplified by the current subject of this conversation, the lack of support and indifferent attitude of Black people and especially Black women.

When you're dealing with Black people who would rather go shopping and by tennis shoes or wash and wax their cars than stand up and fight for their own children who've been deliberately poisoned by the state....it really makes you reconsider what and who you're fighting for and would it even be WORTH it to go through the trouble.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Troy
 

Cynique, the operative word in your last post was "anecdote." Pioneer has a bad habit of taking his personal experiences and extending them to the broader community, indeed it is the way he sees the world.
 

I've found that this way works best for me.
I can't live my life based on OTHER people's knowledge and what they've experienced.
What may work for you or another man may not work for me, and I learned that early in life.

Even when it came to getting girls as younger man.
Most dudes would go INSIDE the club, spend money on drinks, dance, and sweat all night only to end up with a pocket full of phone numbers. Sometimes they would leave with a woman, most times they wouldn't.
I found out I had more success if me and my boy (only took one friend along) waited OUTSIDE the club late at night and pulled the girls as they were leaving.
Some people called that method lame or akin to "stalking", but guess what...we had a well over 90% success rate of ending up with a honey in bed that night...lol.

A man has to do what works for HIM and share that evidence based on HIS experience, not a bunch of numbers or stats or faceless information jotted down in a book.

My information usually comes from real life experience or observation.

So anecdotes I give may not be verified by documented statistics, but it's knoweldge gained from real life experience or observation from a personal perspective that you may not find in a book.


As far as Black women supporting your site.
As you know by now, I generally chill out in THIS neighborhood of your site.....
I rarely go to them other blocks where the writers and novelists be hangin'
It seems to me you have a few females who contribute from time to time, especially plugging their books.
But they just don't post on the forums  section much.

I'm not suprised.
I see the same thing on other Black websites that are ran by men.

This again goes back to what I was saying to Cynique about Black women not trusting Black men.

Most Black women tend to post only on forums where BLACK WOMEN ARE THE MODERATORS.
Many hate going on forums where Black men moderate unless they know the man personally like being his girlfriend or wife.

Now when you ask them why, most won't even tell you.....they just won't come on!
But some will say they feel a mysogynistic atmosphere on that particular site or feel that women are being harassed or picked on.

But the truth is, most AfroAmerican women like websites where female moderators are heavy handed and are quick to shut down Black men who post what they perceive to be sexist or homophobic comments.

Troy you basically let people say what they want to say on this site and allow them to take the heat for their comments.
If they can defend themselves....fine.
If they can't....better concede the argument or change the damn subject, lol.

I absolutely love that style.
I'm not just saying that because you're the Administrator....it's the absolute truth.

On of the reasons I have so much confidence in the IDEA of America and what it could be is because of the "hands off" freedom it CLAIMS to offer people because I believe allowing freedom of thought and expression is one of the keys to people uncovering their greatness and developing themselves....as opposed to being steeped in culture and tradition that limits their thinking and behavior.

But a lot of people....especially younger women.....can't handle that hands-off type of lazzi-fairre moderating.
It makes them feel uncomfortable or vulnerable to attack by "the enemy" as they perceive it so they prefer sites that are heavily moderated....especially by women.

Women need to not only be protected but FEEL protected.
It took me years to finally understand this.



 

 


Mel
 

Not sure what you mean about support a black man or black men? What does that even mean?

Good question.
Because "support" means many different things for as many different people.

First of all I say Black women need to support more GOOD Black men!

Black women certainly support Black men already.
But too often is the worthless no-good ones that are being supported....financially, emotionaly, even physically from time to time.
Too often Black women support the WRONG Black man and then get disappointed when he doesn't support her back.


I'm not trying to sound crazy or offensive but I'm gonna keep it real with you............

Black people as a whole need to drop this "altruistic" bullshit they have adopted from White culture.
This belief that people are supposed to do the right thing JUST because it's "right".

Middle class White people promote this belief while THEY don't even practice it, but the problem is that belief is unrealistic and destructive.
It creates a situation where people end up NOT doing the right thing because they don't see any reward or merit in doing so and those who stand to benefit are also disappointed.

What do I mean by "support" Black men?

Simple......

1. When you see Black men take bold stands against racism whether at school or at work or in the community....VERBALLY praise him IN PUBLIC.
Especially infront of White people.
Let the public know that you support these type of men and let other Black people know it too.
That will encourage more Black men to take stands if only to get the praise for it.


2. HAVE SEX with Black men who are taking stands against racism or injustice.

Again, leave the altrusitic bullshit with the Whites who originated it.
Most Black men like women.....sex.
A lot of women don't like the idea of showing appreciation to a man who is fighitng police brutality or mentoring her child or even life-coaching younger men.....rewarding him with sex.
They feel he should be doing these things out of the goodness of his own heart.

But most of what men do they do for sex and money and if offering that "good brother" on your block a little sum'sum will keep him fighitng for the community....it's worth it.


3. OFFER FINANCIAL SUPPORT to Black men who are positive and doing things in the community.
If you're making tons of money and have some to spare, instead of putting it in shoes just hand the brother an evelope and say, "Thank you for what you're doing in the community".

A lot of Black men who are active in fighting racism and injustice don't hold steady jobs because his attitude won't let him. Many strong masculine Black men are seen as threatening and kept out of the work force and are struggling financially.
If you see this, help him out.

But one of the biggest things is the PUBLIC show of support.

Like I said before, women are the cheerleaders and much of what men do they do to get praise from and impress women.
If they don't feel that fighting for the community or being strong or even supporting their women will get them praise, attention, or sex....they aren't gonna do it.

You can shake your head and disagree all you want but that's just a biological ANECDOTAL truth.

Men want wealth and women and most of the achievements they performed were in pursuit of this.
You show me a bunch of lazy triffling men who aren't doing anything and I'll show you a bunch of indifferent women standing behind them who aren't using their sex appeal to encourage them and give them a reason TO do something.

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White people aren't any more altruistic when it comes to sex than anybody else.  White men definitely exert their power and authority to harass their women for sexual favors, and ambitious white women  sleep their way to the top  through liaisons with influential men.  

 

Women of any color are not that much into  providing sex as a way to reward a man for the good job he's doing or if he needs some inspiration.  They are into seducing a man if they find him appealing or if they happen to be feeling horny. 

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"Negroes have a bad habit of wanting someone ELSE to do for them what they should be doing for themselves."

Ha! Well, that pretty much sums everything up. Not much to be said after stating the number one group think cancer of Negro America.....

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12 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

First of all I say Black women need to support more GOOD Black men!


and I'll ask again  "WHY"? 

 

I feel pity for ANY man who needs encouragement and sexual intercourse to do anything.  It seems like America did a really good job at teaching him to be a slave even without shackles and a whip.   

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NAACP Logo

 

 


 

Troy, can we count on you to stand up for our friends and family in Missouri?

The NAACP last week issued a travel advisory for the state of Missouri calling for all African-American travelers, visitors, and locals to exercise extreme caution given the recent series of concerning, race-based incidents throughout the “Show Me State.”

Black Missourians need your uncompromising support to fight back against assaults on their civil rights and civil liberties.

Help show me a state where African Americans are no more likely to be stopped and searched by police than their white counterparts.

Show me a state where African Americans are free to travel any road they wish without fear for their safety.

Show me a state without Jim Crow-style legislation preventing individuals from protecting themselves from discrimination, harassment, and retaliation.  

Show me a state where freedom and justice are common to all.

Donate $5

Donate $10

Donate $50

Or any amount of your choice.

Thank you for your support,
Derrick

NAACP
Interim President and CEO

 

P.S. Your contributions to the NAACP are 100% tax-deductible. Donate now.

 

 

 

Donate to the NAACP

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© 2017 National Association for the Advancement of Colored People
Find Your Local Unit | Unsubscribe

 

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Are you all getting these emails, or seeing this stuff on social media?

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“and I'll ask again  "WHY"?” 

 

Wow! That’s interesting. Let’s see if I have this right, you ask the question: “Why should black women support good black men?”  Why would black women (as a group) have an interest and what would be gained by BW supporting BM? Well, I guess if BW feel there is nothing to gained by supporting BM, they shouldn't. If BW feel such trepidation towards BM, they should ignore them and assume a position of non-engagement and leave BM alone, especially if they are "good" BM. Does that sound about right? The results should be interesting…

 

“I feel pity for ANY man who needs encouragement and sexual intercourse to do anything.”

 

Ok, here we go again. You feel sorry for any man that needs encouragement? Or is it you feel pity for a man who needs encouragement supplemented with sex to function? I just want to be clear about your statement. Which is it?

 

“ It seems like America did a really good job at teaching him to be a slave even without shackles and a whip.”   

 

Ha! Ha! Ha! That’s funny. What does America have to do with this? Is this a behavior or practice you see as unique to American culture? Again, I’m not sure what your point is. Details please…..

 

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@Xeon   Yes, that's my question.  Do you have an answer?  I noticed an alternative but I'd prefer an answer.   Why should  black women support black men? and just so we're on the same page here's MW  definition of support .   

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“Yes, that's my question.  Do you have an answer?  I noticed an alternative but I'd prefer an answer.   Why should  black women support black men? and just so we're on the same page here's MW  definition of support .”  

 

Wow! That was a complete dodge. No surprise. Do I have answer? No I don’t because you are the one who posed the rhetorical snide question. Just as you are the one who is harboring this antipathy towards BM. The incongruity of your question is very obvious. AND YOUR ANIMUS PROMPTED YOU TO ASK SUCH A CYNICAL QUESTION. My point is this: If you believe there is no rational or acceptable reason why BW should support BM, rather than ask a spurious question -you should state exactly why you feel BW should disengage themselves from BM.  I’m interested in hearing any of your arguments. And your evasive flip the script response is not necessary….

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Cynique
 

Women of any color are not that much into providing sex as a way to reward a man for the good job he's doing or if he needs some inspiration. They are into seducing a man if they find him appealing or if they happen to be feeling horny.


You're right.
And while I respect that, I think perhaps women of color or atleast Black women should CHANGE that habit and perhaps use sex as more of a reward for a man doing what he's supposed to do.

Now is this fair to ask of women?

I'm not sure......

But I DO know that if Black women sacrificed some of their personal pleasure of having sex with who they WANT and instead have sex with men who are actually PRODUCTIVE as a reward.....this would advance our community much further.




 

Mel
 

and I'll ask again "WHY"?


Because supporting them not only encourages them to KEEP doing good, it will inspire and encourage other men to do good and do even BETTER.

 


I feel pity for ANY man who needs encouragement and sexual intercourse to do anything.

Lol....
Well if THAT'S the case, every time you SEE a heterosexual man you should start crying and patting him on the shoulder out of sympathy because sex is the driving force for the behavior of MOST men.

Furthermore, if that's what it takes to improve the community......

If women having sex with men make them better men, then that's all that should matter.

Your opinion of it shouldn't matter, all that matters is whether it WORKS or not.

If you want to see the Black community improved (I don't know if YOU or anyone else on this site does....I just know I DO) then you figure out what will work and do it.
No time for being judgmental or shaking your head at people and why they do the things they do.....just recognize that this is what it takes to get them to do it.


 

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43 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Because supporting them not only encourages them to KEEP doing good, it will inspire and encourage other men to do good and do even BETTER.

 

Hmm, you're describing children not men.  I can see a mom supporting her son  and giving him a pat on the head when he does well in school.  Men,  however, support women not the other way around.   

46 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Well if THAT'S the case, every time you SEE a heterosexual man you should start crying and patting him on the shoulder out of sympathy because sex is the driving force for the behavior of MOST men.


For the adult men I know and in my life  personal goals and  achievement are their driving force.   But then again, the men I know sit on boards of corporations - they head corporations, they run their own million dollar businesses.   Sex isn't something that motivates them nor does "cheerleading" which is probably why they are never in short supply of either... 

 

51 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

If you want to see the Black community improved (I don't know if YOU or anyone else on this site does....I just know I DO) then you figure out what will work and do it.
No time for being judgmental or shaking your head at people and why they do the things they do.....just recognize that this is what it takes to get them to do it.


I live in a black community -a  manicured lawns, tree-lined street pool and tennis court community ... There are more phds and professionals per capita than the economy can support but it does.  And not one man has asked  or expected me or any woman here for support -they ask how they can support  us, me, and my family included.   When I lived in a majority white neighborhood - no man asked for support, they asked how they could support me, my family and they were married but their wives expected  nothing less from them.    Half the time, I didn't even have to shovel snow ...I walked out of my house and the fathers and sons were shoveling for us - because that's how fathers teach their sons.  They support women.   

So... maybe that's what's missing in other black communities - grown men who don't ask for women to support them ...maybe these other black communities that are struggling need for their black men to grow up.  

 

1 hour ago, Xeon said:

. Do I have answer? No

 

@Xeon,   I suspected as much, but I didn't want to assume. 

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@Pioneer1  I hope that Mel's anecdotal's examples will impress on you the reality that the anecdotes that shape your view of the world are simply one facet of the black experience and that your ongoing effort to make the black community over in your image is  short sighted.   Blackness has become a mosaic not a monolith and  in the final analysis, cream rises to the top.

 

 The ideal scenario of too many brothas is one where  sistas sacrifice themselves on the altar of the needs and desires  that black men define as being "supportive", - doing this even when these men are not equal to a task. But black men with the right stuff will succeed in spite of institutionalized racism and uncooperative black women.  Furthermore, many of those who do this  will be  ones raised by a mother who taught them how to stand on their own.  

 

Seems to be me a black man would relish the idea of making it on his own because he was strong enough in character and fortitude  to do this.  A secure, capable man doesn't need to yearn for supportive women; he will automatically attract them.

 

Unfortunately, for many men what support also includes  is for women to withhold opinions that take the form of criticism.  In other words, they want to be humored,  which is another word for having their egos stroked.

 

Of course black women are not with out their flaws.  But inside of every loud, overbearing, sarcastic, super bitch is a vulnerable woman who can be cured by  a dose of TLC from a strong black man. 

 

And, so it goes. 

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Mel

 

Hmm, you're describing children not men. I can see a mom supporting her son and giving him a pat on the head when he does well in school. Men, however, support women not the other way around.


Children GROW UP to be good well balanced men from the SUPPORT they get from the women in their lives.
And they REMAIN good and well balanced men from the SUPPORT they get continue to get from the women in their lives.

As far as men needing to support women, that is true also....we should support eachother.

Both sexes were made to COMPLIMENT eachother, not stand alone INDEPENDENT of eachother.....but their must be a balance and GIVE AND TAKE.
Not some woman saying,
"Well if you first stand up and be a man by yourself THEN when you're successful I'll come running to join you so you can support me."......lol.


 

For the adult men I know and in my life personal goals and achievement are their driving force. But then again, the men I know sit on boards of corporations - they head corporations, they run their own million dollar businesses. Sex isn't something that motivates them nor does "cheerleading" which is probably why they are never in short supply of either...

 

I live in a black community -a manicured lawns, tree-lined street pool and tennis court community ... There are more phds and professionals per capita than the economy can support but it does. And not one man has asked or expected me or any woman here for support -they ask how they can support us, me, and my family included. When I lived in a majority white neighborhood - no man asked for support, they asked how they could support me, my family and they were married but their wives expected nothing less from them. Half the time, I didn't even have to shovel snow ...I walked out of my house and the fathers and sons were shoveling for us - because that's how fathers teach their sons. They support women.

 


Oh....
Well that EXPLAINS why you keep asking so many questions about supporting men and can't quite figure this out.

YOU'RE OUT OF TOUCH WITH NORMAL SOCIETY.....lol.

If most of the men you're around are CEOs and board members you're not dealing with AVERAGE men.
These men are overachievers who tend to be gifted with an extraordinary amount of intelligence, energy, and motivation.
While their qualities may be admirable....they aren't normal so we can't make rules or generalize what men need based on THEM.
They are AB-normal.

We need to make rules and understand society based on NORMAL AVERAGE men and women and their needs.



Cynique

 

I hope that Mel's anecdotal's examples will impress on you the reality that the anecdotes that shape your view of the world are simply one facet of the black experience and that your ongoing effort to make the black community over in your image is short sighted. Blackness has become a mosaic not a monolith and in the final analysis, cream rises to the top.


Mel lives in the Atlanta area which is probably the largest concentration of Black professionals anywhere in this nation
.
D.C. is a distant second place.

So we can't take her experience and observations concerning how successful Black pepole are or how Black men behave THERE as an example of what's going on all over the nation.

Hell, Atlanta also has the largest concentration of GAY Black men of anywhere in the nation....which perhaps explains why so many men there can be successful without the support of women....lol.



Seems to be me a black man would relish the idea of making it on his own because he was strong enough in character and fortitude to do this. A secure, capable man doesn't need to yearn for supportive women; he will automatically attract them.


Most men relish the idea of making it on their own, but it's in a man's nature to seek approval of the women in society.
If he doesn't feel that the women in that society respects him a lot of times he won't be motivated to "make it" on his own because he wouldn't see any benefit in it.

You can see that among large segments of Black male youth today who have essentially GIVEN UP on society and refused to go to school, work, or better themselves because of the LACK of proper motivation by the women in their lives be it their mothers or girl friends or sisters.

You've heard the old saying.....

 

BEHIND EVERY SUCCESSFUL MAN STANDS A GOOD WOMAN.

They didnt' come up with that phrase for nothing, there's some truth to it.

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Didn't i say that Mel's  examples were ANECDOTAL? (like yours)

 

Too bad it isn't true that behind every successful black woman, stands  a good black man.  

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On 8/12/2017 at 1:50 PM, Cynique said:

  Blackness has become a mosaic not a monolith and  in the final analysis, cream rises to the top.

 

Thank you @Cynique , it's message I keep forgetting.  Before I drifted off to sleep last night, I remembered that  Pioneer1 and I come from different worlds.   His world view is foreign to me as mine is to him.  

This afternoon, it was when I remembered this isn't the first time I've had this conversation. I'm sure it won't be my last   

 I was looking through something I wrote back in 2009 - and it reminded how I had clashed with an "relationship" author we had on our talk show "the relationship playbook"   He shared the same perspective as Pioneer1 and at that time, I thought the man was insane.   It hadn't dawned on me then that "Blackness is a mosaic."  

The author said I was rude for not agreeing with his perspective and told my co-host, he should replace me.  He did not fully understand my role in bringing that show on the air.  

Then the author took his show to a wider audience - this time a nationally syndicated talk show.  When the author shared his beliefs,  

“men need to know we are doing a good job," said the author

Barbara, a caller, said “Seems like we women have to Support men, even after we Raise them.”   

 The callers raked him over the coals... It was then he learned that his views only appealed to a small cross section of black America.   The author got his just deserts and I felt vindicated. It was bittersweet, though, because there's a group of black women out there in serious need of deprogramming.  


 

9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

YOU'RE OUT OF TOUCH WITH NORMAL SOCIETY.....lol.

 

Actually,  @Pioneer1, you'd might be surprised to learn that you are the one out of touch.  

I've only lived in the Atlanta metro for 4 years.  

Prior to that it was Chicago metro.  Before Illinois, I lived in the  Ohio Valley where my first job there was for  a black man who was West Virginia's  Secretary of Tax and Revenue.   He was appointed by the WV Governor and also was one of President's George HW Bush's  point of lights.  He was engaged when I met him to a black woman , an attorney too, who was already busy with her career and didn't have a lot of time to "support" him but he supported her.  He got his support from his father and mother - and when his dad passed away he supported his mother, sisters and practically the black community in which he was raised.  

 

He and his fiance hired me as the Executive Director  of The Learning Center he founded and I helped him with the zoning proposal for the community center he built.   He founded the learning center and community center because the majority of the community was made up mostly single moms who didn't have  a place for their children to go when they got out of school.   He eventually married but didn't need a woman to support him and doing what he thought was necessary to build a thriving black community.   

Prior to living in the Ohio Valley,  I lived in Brooklyn New York where I was born and raised... All I've ever experienced are men, including my dad who held it down for their communities.  I could fill a book about the successful black men I know personally - and not one has ever said " they need a woman's support to excel.  They just do. 

 Not sure what type  of men lean on women but I'm thankful to have missed them.  





 

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Mel

Lol.....

And you call working for a Black man who was a state Secretary for Tax and Revenue an example of "being in touch" with the common man?

We're not talking about women who LEAN on men.

Nor are we talking about pimps and gigilos who use women as a means of financial support and wealth.

We're talking about the AVERAGE man and what the AVERAGE man wants in life.

Most heterosexual men want wealth and a satifactory sex life.
Even at advanced ages you find men in their 70s and 80s taking pills and trying various techniques to improve their sex life and make themselves more attractive.
hi
Next to wealth (and sometimes even before wealth) a healthy sexual relationship and social validation by women is the most important material aspect of manhood to the AVERAGE man.

Now if a man is ABOVE average (your millionaires, CEOs, gifted artists, ect.....) then their high intelligence and talents may focus them on higher callings and other purposes in life.  But again, these aren't your normal or average men.....they make up less than 10% of the population so we shouldn't use them as an example of how men should behave any more than we should point to gay men as an example of how to control yourself around women.

I told you before, you sound like a high achiever and for much of your professional life you've been surrounded by other high achievers.
Now this isn't necessarily a BAD thing, prosperity and success is good.

But one of the problems is it gives you a warped view of what other people are going through because:

1. High achievers tend to only hang around OTHER high achievers and soon begin to only see the reality that exists in their small gifted circle, and
2. Too often high achievers feel that other people can and should be able to do what THEY do and as easily as they do it without understanding the limited abilities of others.

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If I may interject here.  Mel consider Pioneer's point this way: consider the Brother who built the community center to support those single moms;  I presume some of those moms were black and that some of the fathers of those babies were Black too.  These are the Brothers that Pioneer is referring to.

 

When I worked in corporate America, everybody's kids went to private schools (or they lived in a great neighborhood with great public schools).  Virtually all of my peers were married and had healthy (at least n the surface) relationships with their wives and kids.  Many were active in the community, churches, and political or social organizations.  We all made meaningful financial contribution to charitable organizations.  But I know my peers were not the average folks Pioneer is talking about. Individually we made far more money than the average white american family made.

 

The Brothers Pioneer is talking about are a different breed of Brother than the ones I described and the ones you've been talking about.  I not saying one is better than the other, but they are certainly different. 

 

I have always had jobs where I used my brain not my brawn.  I was intellectually stimulated and usually enjoyed the work.  I was well paid.  Now I know brothers that get up and go to jobs they hate. They can't "work from home."  If they miss a day they lose a days wages. They work to pay bills that can barely afford.  They don't travel abroad. take vacations, or even live in very nice place the prospects for the future are not bright.  These Brothers need the support of their women.

 

Look, all of us do. It is just that the rich, smart, successful Brothers can compensate for it very easily, because they have far more options that the average man.  The average Black man is just more vulnerable.

 

...and of course Black men should support Black women.  The more vulnerable we are the more we need to support each other.

 

Seemingly the more vulnerable you are the less likely you are to get the support you need... and perhaps this is the crux of the problem.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:
On 8/12/2017 at 0:50 PM, Cynique said:

  Blackness has become a mosaic not a monolith and  in the final analysis, cream rises to the top.

 

Thank you @Cynique , it's message I keep forgetting.  Before I drifted off to sleep last night, I remembered that  Pioneer1 and I come from different worlds.   His world view is foreign to me as mine is to him.  

 

May i interject that Mel acknowledged that she and Pioneer are speaking from different perspectives. 

 

My comment would be that we are talking about a very basic tenet.  Life is a survival of the fittest, where the strong thrive.

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6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

they make up less than 10% of the population so we shouldn't use them as an example of how men should behave any

 

@Pioneer1      The  black men I speak of ARE the example of the type of behavior to emulate.

Every black man I referred to came from either very modest means; or poverty/ housing projects life.  My dad, included, who experienced abject poverty during his formative years.     

Once upon a time these black men were in the pool of "average" black men, as you put it.  They could have remained in that pool of "average".   Yet, their strong CHARACTER wouldn't allow it-  these black men chose to make a  lot with the little they had.

These black men matured into adults and left the  "average" group of men .   They didn't look for women to be their cheerleaders and receptacles for sex.    
 

These black men experienced professional and personal success.  As I mentioned "cheerleading women who wanted to sex them"  was the result but not the cause .   

There's an order.  So when "average" black men find that few women want to support or cheer their mediocrity; that follows the natural order.  

As Cynique  mentioned "cream rises to the top" .   High achievement is a choice.

Instead of looking for women to be the "average" black man's savior; "average" black men need to put in the work, connect and network with their high achieving black brothers.




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Mel, I think you are misunderstanding Pioneer's use of the word average.  Of course successful men are worthy of emulating. Their achievements can be motivating and inspiring.  But the vast majority of people will not achieve this level of success. If everyone did, no one would be exceptional.

 

We already know the majority of Black men do not go to college, therefore the "average" man does not go to college. 

 

Not everyone has the intelligence, motivation, preparation, and nowadays money to attend.  Of course environment and family circumstances hinder others. The inability to go to attend  a good college and graduate puts a damper for one's earning potential.  

 

Today, in a world of digital technology and automation the opportunities for many Brothers, unable, or incapable, of going to college have dried up considerably. Of course during this period incarceration rates have skyrocketed....  These are average, everyday, normal people for whom Pioneer is talking about (I think).

 

The inability of these people to raise to become CEOs of their own companies or the secretary of some department, does not diminish them. Everyone can not become a CEO.

 

The lack of willingness to provide support to each other is very prevalent in a capitalist system, where rugged individualism and independence is a sign of strength and needing help is a sign of weakness.  In reality, all the successful people that every existed got tons of support whether they recognized it or not.  We all need support  

 

In fact, as wealth and income inequality continue to rise.  The ability and likelihood of anyone to move from poverty to wealth becomes lower--and it is.   This is a time for Black women to provide more support for Black men--not less.  Obviously. the converse it true too.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Troy said:

  This is a time for Black women to provide more support for Black men--not less.  Obviously. the converse it true too.

 

First,  @Troy  English is my first and primary language.  For most of my life, my reading comprehension has been in the 99 percentile.  I couldn't have survived as a broadcast  journalist if I didn't understand what people mean when they speak. Especially people of which I have nothing in common.   From white folks  in the hollers to black people in the hood to those elected to the U. S. Senate; I've never had a problem understanding what people mean  when they speak.  


I understood exactly what Pioneer was referring to when he talked about "average" men .  

NOW I hope you understand me. 

 

Remaining "average" is a choice.  Relegating a group of people to be average because of the reasons you've assigned is a cop-out .   

 

Excuses are the tools of the incompetent.   

 

If a woman chooses to carry an incompetent man, while making a way for herself then that is her choice.   

Unfortunately, her actions will only further contribute to that man's impotency and destroy what's left of the black community.   

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Actually, we shouldn't assume that black women don't support their men.  Many have no problem encouraging a man who shows good potential and - is emotionally stable.  What they don't do, in enable an incompetent man. And why should they?

 

i really don't believe that ambitious black women  look for a black male to support their aspirations because  these motivated women are independent.  That is not to say that they don't appreciate any support offered.  

 

And of course, certain black women are inadvertenly supportive  because these airheads make their men feel superior.   

 

 

 

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