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Delano

Invisible Black Males

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1 hour ago, Delano said:

Protection no we are not ready for that yet 

@Delano  Sad but true.  I’m not a black man but if I were I’d be haunted by the fact I couldn’t protect black women and children from enslavement.  I couldn’t protect black women and children in the jim crow south -I couldn’t protect black women and children while they worshipped; or when they went to school; and couldn’t protect  some of them from poverty - child sex trafficking ...workplace sexual assualt ... yes protection a long way off..

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Sure having to witness your wife get raped by massa and bear his children must have been soul crushing for both husband and wife. But @Mel Hopkins are you going to suggest the conditions of enslavement are comparable to today? 

 

First Del asks for examples od bkaxk men protecting black wonen then immediately ignores or dismisses them without addressing them, and now you bring up a examples from our period of enslavement to explain why you dont "feel" protected in 2018.

 

You will never "feel" protected. In a white racist majority society. Welcome to American sis. But this has nothing to do a lack of respect for you from black men.

 

@Mel Hopkins do you also buy into @Delano's unsubstantiated belief that black men dont respect black women?

 

As an aside: i pray for the souls of our brothers and sisters who endured the horrors of slavery, unable to protect themselves, or each other, from the evil heaped upon then for generations. I know they did best they could and we are a testament to their survival. There is nothing anyone reading has experienced which compares to their struggle. May their souls rest in peace. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Troy said:

Welcome to American sis. But this has nothing to do a lack of respect for you from black men

I am afraid that you atr wrong. Buy a vowel. Or you a Nubian can keep patting each other on the back. 

And Black Males who were slaves abused women. Can either of you two spin that one. 

I actually commented on Nubian rescuing sisters from brothers. Are yiubyjay myopic that you didn't see thst response or do you only read posts  in which you're tagged 

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@Delano you believe collectively Black men have no respect for Black women and I disagree with that.

 

Our experiences are obviously vastly different. Clearly, there is nothing I can say  and no experience I can relate to convince you otherwise. Your mind is closed; bizzare statements like the one below illustrate this fact.

 

5 hours ago, Delano said:

Black Males who were slaves abused women. Can either of you two spin that one. 

 

I'm astonished that is your takeaway from our hundreds of years if enslavement.

 

Perhaps we should just agree to disagree. 

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No the take away is you can't hear what women are saying. Its like white people not understanding racism because it doesn't affect them. Do you respect the women in this forum enough to actually listen and absorb what they are saying. 

No brother the fault is on your side. 

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@Delano OK.  I was not aware that you were the official spokesperson for Black women.  One would think you would be better able to speak from a Black male perspective. 

 

Questioning my respect for the women on this forum -- or even Black women is general is a silly desperation move on your part Del. I've already demonstrated an ability to listen to the women here and have modified my opinion as a result.  The Viola Davis conversation is a case in point.  You tried to use it against me, but you were too blinded by your own biased position to actually see that my position changed as a result of the conversation. 

 

I see Black men as being defenders of Black women and you describe that as me being at "fault."  Your word choice is telling. 

 

Del do you engage with groups of Black men, in the real world, on a regular basis?  

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9 hours ago, Troy said:

are you going to suggest the conditions of enslavement are comparable to today? 


Whether I suggest that or not - (which by the way, I have no way of knowing ) why is the question relevant to my statement of being haunted by black men not being able to provide protection then or now? 

 

Further, It's not a matter of "buy in" of Delano's observation that collectively black men appear not to have respect for black women. Lack of respect appears  in the language we use  (notice how Delano called both you and NubianFellow "Girls"), our institutions including church, schools, banking and finance etc, and socially.  For example, how it's the norm to blame black women for a black man's shortcomings or failure.  I'm always amazed how many black men blame feminism for them not being in the home. 

Even the fact that your question took away my agency by asking  me about Delano's perception - instead of simply asking me "do I believe black men respect black women".   Something as "innocent" as framing a question to a woman based on what a man thinks is disrespectful.   But it doesn't even faze me anymore.  I notice it and continue to move on. 

The challenge in this whole dynamic - isn't about what anyone believes anymore; it's about action.  Black women who are about anything -are no longer waiting around for that protection or respect - that may or may not come.  They are just moving on,  building movements and forming sanctuaries. 

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@Troy @NubianFellowCome on, you can't by any stretch of the imagination, use the 3 regular male posters on this forum as a barometer of how black men treat black women!  Once again, there's a fine line between respecting black women and defending them!  What is currently disappointing black female onlookers is the timidity of the black male peers of female journalist and congresswomen who are being bullied and insulted by Donald Trump!  Instead of stepping up, these black pros look to white men as their role models and just leave these women to fend for themselves in the public arena. This is, what it is.    

 

BTW, the conflict between black men and women dates back long before social media came on the scene. The media has nothing to do with why,  in the present, there are more single black women than married ones. The ongoing clash that pits brothas and sistas  against each other is all about the unfufilled expectations they have of each other and is in part a residue of slavery.  Sadly, single young black women of today don't really look upon black guys as their heroes.

 

@Mel Hopkins I didn't see your post before i posted mine.  But i co-sign to everything you said.    

 

 

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Troy you have the situation in reverse. I at no point am speaking for Black Women. What I said was listen to the perspective of Mel and Cynique. 

There's a difference between disagreement and invalidation. Read the next sentence carefully and out loud. Mel and Cynique are saying Black Men don't defend Black Women. How can you say their experience is wrong. That is not respecting their position. It doesn't mean that you are disrespecting them or women. I know you and that's not your intention. However i feel your statements lack sensitivity. 

 

Zoom out for a moment the question is do Black Men defend Black Women. Both I and the author think not. You say yes, Mel and Cynique think not. The only position I can take is either no. Or I don't know because I don't know how any women feel. 

 

Years ago there was a debate about whether the Washington Redskins, Cleveland Indians name and mascot were offensive. Some said yes others said no. One player said it doesn't matter what I think. If one Native American thinks it is offensive then it is offensive. 

 

I am going to post another women's issue that White men are deciding in a separate post. 

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On 11/20/2018 at 4:58 AM, Troy said:

 

The question you asked is not really the right one, that is if you are really trying to understand what you perceive as a lack of support Black men show for black women as a collective. Your questions makes the presumption that the reason for the lack of support is true and based upon gender -- neither are true.

I made a statement, so can you inform me what question you thought i asked. 

The second half sound like you're speaking for women. 

On 11/20/2018 at 4:58 AM, Troy said:

This statement, quoted from the article, is complete and utter bullshit! 

Yes Troy you are so right. (sarcasm) 

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5 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

Even the fact that your question took away my agency by asking  me about Delano's perception - instead of simply asking me "do I believe black men respect black women".   Something as "innocent" as framing a question to a woman based on what a man thinks is disrespectful.

 

23 hours ago, Delano said:

Troy before you tell me the question i should ask maybe speak to some Black Women, and everyone else. 

 

 

Listening is important as well. 

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@Cynique I feel like what you said is disingenuous sister. The percentage of Black men that support Trump is less than five percent. And most of them are probably being paid or receive some type of benefit for their support. That's how they play this game, the way we should be playing it.

 

Black women don't look to Black men as their heroes, but that's a problem deeply rooted in our social structure. Like I said, most Black men I have been around will die for a Black queen. Real talk. I am not making that up. And a very small percentage I know would abuse and disrespect Black women simply because they feel entitled. I'm not trying to paint a picture that Black men are saints. But we are not as bad as everyone proclaims. And on the flip side of that coin, Black women are also not as bad as everyone proclaims. Most Black women I know would also die for Black men and go down defending him. These are my personal experiences. And anywhere I have traveled, I have not noticed a shift in this behavior so from my perspective this point of view seems accurate all across the board.

 

Also, Black people need to stop relying on mainstream media. This is where sites like this become so important. They have the power. Google our past history and examine how the number one search engine in the world gives you the results. For instance, Buck Breaking is a myth according to Snopes. White people never fed Black babies to alligators according to Snopes and if you want to discover new things about Nubian people, some of the results may have you believing or questioning if they were white people.

 

This is why the most important information I have about anything is what I can absolutely observe for myself. And when I view information that goes against my own experience, then I will rely on my personal experience.

 

Furthermore, saying Black men don't protect Black women is the same thing as calling Black men cowards. It's funny how they have us believing that Black men are cowards but yet, everyone is extremely afraid of us. I smell a rat and I'm not biting the cheese!

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@Delano

3 hours ago, Delano said:

Mel and Cynique are saying Black Men don't defend Black Women. How can you say their experience is wrong. That is not respecting their position.

 

I agree with this statement brother. It's their personal experience and it may be accurate. But this topic seems to be more of a generalization. If these women don't feel protected by Black men then that is their reality - but it is only their reality. And that doesn't make it everyone else' reality.

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3 hours ago, NubianFellow said:

I feel like what you said is disingenuous sister. The percentage of Black men that support Trump is less than five percent. And most of them are probably being paid or receive some type of benefit for their support. That's how they play this game, the way we should be playing it.

 

@NubianFellowi feel that what you said, doesn't apply to what i said.  The men i was talking about were the "peers" of black women in the field of journalism and elected offices - the ones who Trump has been attacking lately.  I didn't say all black men or make any reference to political leanings.  

 

3 hours ago, NubianFellow said:

Furthermore, saying Black men don't protect Black women is the same thing as calling Black men cowards. It's funny how they have us believing that Black men are cowards but yet, everyone is extremely afraid of us. I smell a rat and I'm not biting the cheese!

In regard to this, i said that black men do what is expedient in the mentioned cases; just as white men do. Neither have taken up for the their female colleagues, undoubtedly feeling that if these women can't take the heat, they should get out the kitchen.  Fortunately black women have each other's backs.  And,  it is what it is.  So, do you blame the media for how once black men make it in their field, a great deal of them marry white women?  Are "they" responsible for that??? 😮 

 

3 hours ago, NubianFellow said:

Also, Black people need to stop relying on mainstream media. This is where sites like this become so important. They have the power. Google our past history and examine how the number one search engine in the world gives you the results. For instance, Buck Breaking is a myth according to Snopes. White people never fed Black babies to alligators according to Snopes

Every black person i know or encounter on social media says the same thing you and Troy  say about it.   Black people are not as unaware as you two think they are.  Why don't you give them some credit for being able to navigate social media and take what they read with a grain of salt.    I don't know any black person who doesn't view the media with a jaundiced eye. But we pick and choose what we find provocative or entertaining. You 2 must have a lot of dumb naive friends. i also find it a little ironic that you trust Snopes to be an Oracle of the truth.  As for me not feelng protected by black men, as an old  widow, i have 3 sons who look out for dey momma, and 2 daughters who don't look to men to shield them.  The whole subject ain't something  I  dwell on.  

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4 hours ago, NubianFellow said:

Black men don't protect Black women is the same thing as calling Black men cowards.

And there lies the rub.  Black men don’t want to feel like cowards. 

 

So not wanting to feel like a coward is the reason for all the back-patting regarding random chivalrous acts?

 

 I can imagine that the alternative is hard to mentally reconcile. Mindblowing actually.

 

But imagine if black men didn’t make it about them - and actually did the heavy lifting of protecting black women.  

 

Black men failed once and that is how many black women ended up  shackled next to black men in those slaves ships.

 

Still, I don’t believe those African men were any less courageous than black american men today.  They were outsmarted and outplayed and did what they could to survive - even if was at the expense of women and children.

 

It’s similar to the environment today - but instead of fighting, revolting and uprising - it’s more of radio silence on issues that effect the most vulnerable in the black community.  

 

When women say things such as Hopkinson in that quote,  and a whole host of women share the same reality they don’t care if black men feel like cowards.  In fact that is the least of their worries. Have you heard of the me-too movement? It was started by a black woman Tarana Burke in 2006 because too many black and brown working-poor women were being sexually assaulted on their jobs that they couldn’t leave.  If they didn’t acquiesce to the men they would be fired and  eventually homeless with their children.

 

This is reality for a lot of black women.  Don’t be confused by hollywood giving their star power to help these women.  

 

Or let’s talk about the tens of thousands of underage girls right here in American being sold into sex slavery... 

 

So let’s be clear, we are NOT talking about individual acts of kindness and chilvary...It is rare for any man to turn their back on a woman face-to-face... I went to the bank today and didn’t open one door or have a man jump in front of me -BUT that’s not point.

 

We’re saying COLLECTIVELY, Black men aren’t covering black women. We don’t care what any othet ethnic group is or isn’t doing. - the topic black men covering black women. 

 

There has never been a march, a labor strike or movement organized by black men to stop the violence against black women or children...or a march against “welfare reform”  (@Troy)  that effects women and children.. or even march to make sure black women who are raising children single-handled get childcare, equal pay / raise in wages, paid time off to care for sick children or even a time off for mental health days... 

 

Black Men as a group have never even asked black women (the collective) what we need  to feel protected” -  

 

 

So, while a man may feel stepping up to stop a black man from beating a black women - is cause for celebration,  I say

NO.

 

As an actual black women who fellowships with other black women, that’s a beautiful gesture and life-saving

If it prevented a mercy -hospital type assassination of a black women ER doctor.

 

But in the grand scheme,  protecting a black women has nothing to do with a man’s ego... It’s ensuring that all black men have a future.  

 

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@Mel Hopkins It is feminist anti male rhetoric like this that holds us back as a people sista. You have said a lot, and most of it just doesn't hold weight. Black men are not cowards in any light I have seen Black men in. For the most part we are honorary and protectors of our families. When you say the white man outsmarted Black men, you mean to say white people outsmarted Black people, if that is the position you hold. But this a biased and uneducated view of the reality.

 

In saying that Black men have failed Black women you are saying that because the focus of African societies wasn't to build weapons of mass destruction to conquer other nations that Black men are responsible for what happened to them. This may be a valid point in some lights, however, this is one of the things that have differentiated us from them. While they were pillaging and killing the innocent, it simply wasn't our nature to do the same and therefore we paid a terrible price.  I agree we should have been ready.. but I see much of our history through the present. You see queen, we are our ancestors. So what does this mean?

 

Examine Black people's willingness to build together, leave white social media alone except for marketing purposes and focus more on Black social networks. But this is not normal behavior. Black people don't support Black people and one of the biggest reasons for this is due to how we communicate and network. Wanna know my definition of a slave? It's someone who accepts domination with no rebuttal. This is what our people seemingly do when faced with white supremacy. Remember, white supremacy can't exist without Black inferiority. In order for someone to be supreme, someone else must be inferior. By no means do I consider our people inferior, however, the behavior is very flawed and undoubtedly inferior behavior. This is not about men protecting women. It's about people rising to the calling. And our people simply don't step up. This must be how they defeated us in the first place.

 

To put everything on the Black man, who is fathered by the Black woman is just as insulting to the Black woman as it is to the Black man. You can't put down a Black man or woman without putting down all Black people. While it is true that we have flaws as a group, the focus needs to be more on parenting and instilling culture, moral and value into our children. Because we can nit pick all day. Trust me. And if you don't believe me, just go to facebook to see the childish ranting and experience the whole "Black gender war" agenda. And on top of  that, the solution, as many are putting it, is to date out. How quickly we abandon our own. Then blame the other for the current situation we are in. Our ancestors would be ashamed of this behavior.

 

Every bad thing you can say about Black men, trust me, they can point out why it's the fault of the Black woman and what you have is a social dysfunction in the Black community that would cease to correct itself. It would quickly turn into the blame game. There is much fault on both sides but you can't fix opinion. All you can do is argue about it. Want to fix something, then go after the behavior of the children's parents who instilled these beliefs into them. Perhaps there is something fundamental that our boys and women are not being taught that could be the cause of the social chaos and confusion that is prevalent in the Black community these days. We need to go deeper.

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3 minutes ago, NubianFellow said:

Black men are not cowards in any light I have seen Black men

And as I wrote there lies the rub. Ego massagjng.  Well carry on. 

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@Delano Really? We exchanged viewpoints and ideas without being disrespectful. She gave her viewpoint and I gave mine. This is how I have seen men and ladies interact with each other and in my humble opinion, this is how I love to see my brothers and sisters behave towards one another. What you may consider depressing - I consider maturity. There are billions of us and over 50 million of us in the USA. We won't agree on everything. But that isn't depressing. Can you imagine how ineffective all of our movements would have been if we all agreed on everything instead of being honest about our beliefs? I would hate to imagine what that world would look like. But that would be far more depressing to me than a world where we exchange ideas and viewpoints. Otherwise, social networking is a waste of everyone's time!

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20 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

Even the fact that your question took away my agency by asking  me about Delano's perception

 

WHAT?! First, I can't take your agency away.  Second I asked you a direct question: did you agree with Del's assessment given that he took it upon himself to speak for you.  If you've construed that into my taking you agency then we'll just have to disagree.

 

12 hours ago, Delano said:

Nubian the reverse is interesting. If Black Men believe they are defending Black Women but are not. How do yiu change that?

 

Del you seemed have complete  to completely missed Nubian's point given the flawed premise of your question. The blanket statement that Black women are not being defended is untrue.  Barack is protecting Michelle Obama right?

 

A better question would be what do you do about the women who don't believe or are actually not being protected.  The answer is that it is all of our responsibility to see that this happens.  The NOI protect and defend their women -- wouldn't you agree @Delano, @Mel Hopkins, @Cynique or will you come up with some other silly reasons to dismiss this fact? Malcolm protected Betty, would any of you Sisters (and Del) dispute that?

 

I was on twitter a yesterday and at the top of my feed was this subject. I now see this was what drove Del brought it up. Again this is how this works.  Someone corporate entity generates some nonsense about Black men and women and Del people run around propagating it as if it has some validity.

 

20 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

notice how Delano called both you and NubianFellow "Girls"

 

Yeah I noticed that Mel, whenever Del's arguments fall apart he resorts to name calling.  

 

12 hours ago, Cynique said:

Every black person i know or encounter on social media says the same thing you and Troy  say about it.

 

@Cynique I see you never did research filter bubbles.

 

Before I left Facebook, I made a habit of hoping around rather than letting Facebook determine what I read and I ASSURE your there are many who are ALL-IN when it comes to social media seemingly blind to and ignorant of the adverse impact of Social media Facebook in particular.

 

Try reading Black Enterprise.  I had to stop, because all they did was tout the virtues of social media then i realized they must be being paid by the likes of Twitter to lie to us. Maybe I'm wrong but I doubt it -- in any case you can't tell by their behavior.

 

Cynique despite what you suggest with you anecdotal evidence of "everyone you know on social" our collective behavior speak volumes; for the 35 and under demographic most get their news from social media. 

 

8 hours ago, NubianFellow said:

To put everything on the Black man, who is fathered by the Black woman is just as insulting to the Black woman as it is to the Black man. You can't put down a Black man or woman without putting down all Black people.

 

Preach Brother!

 

I'm sorry so many women feel they are unprotected.  The truth is there are many Brothers who would lay down their lives in defense of their women -- I'm one of them. I'd be willing to bet @NubianFellow would too. 

 

Unfortunately this is not the the of story massive corporate media conglomerates are interested in telling and seemingly unless they validate it, it can't possibly be true huh?

 

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Hey fellows if your women says that you did something that  hurt her what's the appropriate response. No i didn't, you need stop listening to your girlfriends and that feminist bullshit. I take good care of you. 

 

No you listen to understand the problem. 

 

Do you think its manly to not man up and say i see your point. Sometimes its not about the answers but listening to the question. 

 

Troy I love the work that you do and how you want to make the world better. I know that you are not the type of man to disrespect women. But you can be condescending and dismissive. Mel said you took away her agency. That shouldn't be a discussion about you saying you didnt. Without understanding why she said what she said. 

 

Nubian a dialogue implies an exchange of ideas. What ideas did you reveive from Mel. 

 

Agreement and acknowledgement are different. 

 

Women are saying Black don't have their back. This strikes me as a an individual and collective statement. 

 

Before you say Black Men protect women ask the women you know and ask them why they answered the way they did. 

 

Not liking the answers doesn't invalidate the response. But not listening is an invalidation. 

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13 minutes ago, Troy said:

Yeah I noticed that Mel, whenever Del's arguments fall apart he resorts to name calling.  

 

Calling someone “Girls” ISN’T name-calling ...unless you believe it’s derogatory!  

 

Now, if you read my statement within this context of how we use language; the statement shows lack of respect for women. 

 

And NO, the NOI doesn’t protect black women. 

 

i understand your reason for your tunnel vision. It appears easier to mentally cope with the message if you reduce the group to bite size pieces.  However, respect and protection of a group doesn’t work like that.  It applies to the whole group 

 

This topic is about how black men as a group respect, protect black women or the lack thereof.  

 

The answer is Black men as a group have failed to respect and protect black women.  

 

That is the current state of the black america.

 

And black women who can,  have moved on. 

 

So, as I mentioned to Nubian, I’ll also offer to you. “Carry on”.  Stay in your mental safe space.   

42 minutes ago, Troy said:

The truth is there are many Brothers who would lay down their lives in defense of their women -

 

By the way, black women would rather black men stand up in defense of black women... dying is easy. 

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8 minutes ago, Mel Hopkins said:

 

Now, if you read my statement within this context of how we use language; the statement shows lack of respect for women. 

Was I equating girls with women

I didn't understand thus Mel until I talked with my partner. Would it be an insult if I called them children. No offense meant to women. 

@Mel Hopkins did you feel I was speaking for you. I hadn't thought so but Troy seems ti think so. Si i figured i would ask you. 

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43 minutes ago, Delano said:

Was I equating girls with women

 

@Delano,  (OFF TOPIC kinda )  I used your quote as an example of how our use of language - specifically how we use “gender” can be derogatory. “Polite” society no longer call black men “boys”- but in your usage  to infantilize “Troy and NF”  you reached for “girls” when “boys” would do.  

 

BUT  Society as whole uses “girls” as a derogatory phrase - and some women use it when they don’t want to appear as “old women”

It’s cute and quaint when women use it and it’s derogatory when men use it.  It’s like Nigger/  Nigga .   My intention wasn’t to call you out but rather to show how language  can show lack of respect. 

 

ON TOPIC 

No, I didn’t get the sense you were speaking for me  - It seems to me you raised an important topic like “climate change”...  

 

This one is currently part of the national dialogue because of 45. 

 

He weaponizes language - and he knows black women see through him but he also know the status of the black community.

 

If black men organizations came after him after his outburst against the black women white house correspondents, they would have weakened him...catching him off guard.

 

But not a peep.  

 

So thank you.  I internalized the exchange- so not to think about it.  This is better because now I can release it.  

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You ladies (and Del) are being inconsistent and are mistaking disagreement with a lack of understanding.

 

Your thesis is that, Black men as a group have failed to respect and protect black women.  Obviously, I agree.

 

Now because I disagree with this I'm called a girl (or infantilized), I'm told I'm not listening, I'm told I'm taking away people's agency, etc, etc.

 

However, in reaction, I gave examples of Black men who have protected Black women -- all of which have been ignored. I attempt to explain why you all hold this belief and it is rejected out of hand.  

 

This conversation is like one of religion, politics, or one's affinity for social media; one in which people have dug into the respective corners and uninterested in considering opposing ideas.

 

My evidence that Black men collectively protect Black women (and vice-versa) is our survival in the country after hundreds of years of enslavement. We as a people could not have gotten where were are today without some form of mutual defense. I've also shared anecdotes from with wider culture, like the National of Islam's protecting Black women  -- all of this has fallen on deaf ears.

 

All I can assume is that you ladies have brought into the disinformation promulgated by the broader culture which degrades and marginalizes Black people -- Black men in particular. 
 

@Delano, since you ignored all of my questions I can only assume you do not spend a great deal of time with groups of Black men and have no personal experiences with the stories of us coming to the defense of Black women, so it is harder for you to relate to us.

 

The invisibility of Black men (middle aged men in particular) is a theme I raise from time to time and it is ALWAYS summarily rejected. This conversation is additional evidence of our invisibility in the mainstream culture.  There is a great deal of misinformation that has been absorbed by not just our Sisters but our Brothers (or at least Del) that needs to be countered.

 

This is one reason I run AALBC.  There are powerful stories of Black men protecting Black women available: read the novel Black by Joan Vassar.  You might also try reading the novel Raisins in Milk by David Covin.  These novels help counter the narrative of the helpless, hapless Black man who is too powerless to defense his woman.

 

These novels are uplifting, powerful stories about love and family.  You won't discover these novels on corporate platforms, who have no interest in uplifting Black people. If you get nothing else from what I've written consider reading these novels to counter the narrative of weak Black men. The future of our culture is on the line.

 

 

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@Troy

 

1. For the record, I identify by “woman” not “lady”. 

 

2.  Re-read the thread.  There is agreement on respect and protection on an individual basis.  No one is disputing that some black men are protective in their intimate relationships.  BUT if you don’t ask, listen and seek understanding from those you say you care  for then that’s showing  disrespect.

 

(With black women like me disrespect will get you kicked to curb no matter how great you think you are. )

 

3. Back to the thesis.  That was the topic in question - Full Stop.  Glad you agree.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Troy said:

Cynique despite what you suggest with you anecdotal evidence of "everyone you know on social" our collective behavior speak volumes

@Troy It never occurs to you that you aren't trapped in a bubble or that your "hopping around" isn't any more credible than my "hopping around" because there is absolutely nothing impartial about your opinions. After using the gigantic number of 3 regular male posters  on this board as proof of black males  protecting black females, you proceed to suggest further, using anecdotal evidence and personal speculation,  that everything about social media is negative, and there is nothing to be learned from it,  that it is the source of misinformation which is brainwashing black people especially those in a certain age bracket, and that everything wrong with the black race today can be traced to the media because black folks are either corrupted by financial pay-offs from the media or are so dumb and gullible that they can't think for themselves. Everybody is out of step but you. On previous occasions, no sooner did you complete your routine scoldings about black consumption of the fake news dispensed by the media, you switch gears and lecture us about how blacks should  gratefully revere how far we have come in the good great country of America. Donald Trump would be proud of you as you share his bubble.  I agree with a lot of what you say about the media, but you blindly hate social media to the point of being  irrational about it.  

 

You and Black Nubian come across to me as romanticizing the role of black men as protectors of their women.  Your breast-beating rhetoric reeks with mawkish nobleness and false bravado even if your illustrations are mundane examples of what most men would do if backed into a corner. Not to worry. Historically, white men rather than protecting their women, oppressed and controlled them.  So they are not heroes either.  The male and female of the human species seem destined to always be locked in a struggle over who copes best with the enormous male ego.

 

You tell us to read inspiring "novels", which implies that the stories are fiction, and you expect these books to cancel what we have observed in reality. And your references to black Muslims protecting their women makes no impact on me because i can only go by what you say, having never seen any examples of this in spite of living close to Chicago, the home base of Elijah Muhammad and Louis Farrakhan. Who were they protecting their subservient women from??  Their lecherous leader?  

 

IMO, black men have no obligation to automatically protect all black women.  Armed with the defense mechanisms which have enabled them to establish a reputation as being strong and independent, sistas can take care of themselves. Black men, on the other hand, are left with the constant burden of trying to show they aren't weak and inadequate.  

 

17 hours ago, NubianFellow said:

...white supremacy can't exist without Black inferiority. In order for someone to be supreme, someone else must be inferior. By no means do I consider our people inferior, however, the behavior is very flawed and undoubtedly inferior behavior. This is not about men protecting women. It's about people rising to the calling. And our people simply don't step up. This must be how they defeated us in the first place.

This assessment is so true and is what really resonates with me. At least we can agree on something.

 

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Troy are you kidding. You said the article was bs and not true. That is vastly different than saying you disagree. You refused to acknowledge that Black Women feel unprotected by Black Men. 

 

I suggested asking women and everyone else what they thought. To listen and understand a position that differs from your own. 

 

You seem to conflate issues. I heard a critique from Mel and Cynique about a global dynamic yiu heard a personal criticism. 

 

You  ask if i spend time with groups of Black. Whuch implies I am not qualified to ask a question or have an opinion. The irony is that yiu refuse to accept other opinion's based on a really small sample of the wrong group. 

 

Agaib ir sounds like you are in a bubble and have an inability to accept divergent opinions. 

 

Then you say you agree with the article. 

 

In your job you talk to a lot of Black Women try listening. 

 

If you want the answer about the circles i ran and run with message me. 

2 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

BUT if you don’t ask, listen and seek understanding from those you say you care  for then that’s showing  disrespect.

 

8 hours ago, Delano said:

Before you say Black Men protect women ask the women you know and ask them why they answered the way they did. 

 

Not liking the answers doesn't invalidate the response. But not listening is an invalidation

 

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4 hours ago, Troy said:

My evidence that Black men collectively protect Black women (and vice-versa) is our survival in the country after hundreds of years of enslavement

Using that logic so was Slavery Industrial Complex or SIC. Since African Americans are descendants of people who were enslaved and slavers 

Culture outlives it's progenitors. 

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@Mel Hopkins 

 

(1) OK woman, why don't you like being referred to as a "lady?"

(2) Again, don't confuse my disagreement with a failure to seek understanding.  I completely understand what you wrote I just disagree with it as it applied to Black men collectively.  I not accusing you of failing to understand me.  I am however of accusing Del of this; I often asked Del questions to clarify my understanding of what he writes but he never answers those questions while you usually do (I'm confident you'll address my question about "lady" to further my understanding of you thinking and not leave me to speculate

(3) OK

 

@Cynique I always loved your way with words -- even when you are completely off base 🙂 I don't even know where to begin, because you just can't see my point.  We live In a country where we've elected 45 as president, still you think everyone is sophisticated enough to see through the nonsense he and his trolls push out on social media.  If this does not tell you how easily people can be manipulated by social media  -- nothing can and I give up trying. 

 

I still think people should spend more time reading books than social media, but I guess those days are fading away.  Teenage white boys like, Mark Zuckerberg, will determine what Black people read and think, except for the people like you who can see through it all.

 

Despite your disparaging novels as it relates to reality; novel help people understand each other, more so than any mechanism I'm aware of -- even direct communication with someone else.  I'm sorry you don't see it that way.

 

@Delano

 

I'm tired of trying to understand your perspective on this partially because you have a habit of eak for others rather than yourself.  Why do YOU think Black men don't respect or defend Black women. 

 

Also, I don't need to you to tell me I took away Mel's agency or that I'm not listening to her -- she can do that.  Ask much as I like Mel I don't agree with everything that comes out of her mouth, and my disagreement is not always because of a lack of listening. Should no on is perfect  and Mel is capable of being wrong. 

 

If you really wanted to answer my question you would have just DM'ed me the answer. rather than asking me to do it here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Your sentence doesn't make any sense. No clearly you have issues with my positions and style. 

 

The only thing i can say is listen. 

 

And find people who can hear you. 

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Ask someone with a sense of humor like @Cynique to explain it to you @Delano

 

True, I don't like your style of telling me what I don't understand while ignoring every question I pose for clarification.

 

I do try to listen, perhaps you should consider doing the same.

 

Fortunately, there are people in my life who can hear me.  That does not mean they can hear me all the time.  Shoot, from time to time, you even hear me Del.  I don't expect perfect clarity with all people all the time... we are merely human.

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1 hour ago, Troy said:

still think people should spend more time reading books than social media

@Troy How do you know they don’t?  

 

And even if they don’t,  they are still listening to voices that resonate with them. How is that any different than reading a book?  If they do read - they still choose the voices they want to hear.     

 

2) The reason why I don’t identify with “lady” - is the same reason you wrote “ladies and Del” - You could’ve wrote Ladies and Gentleman (Del) but your use of attributive noun and Del’s  name was deliberate.  

 

I find people use “Lady” for two reasons to show respect but really have no respect for the woman - or to suggest the woman behave in a way they believe a woman should act. 

 

I don’t call men “gentlemen” either.

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@Mel Hopkins Pew Research publishes studies on this each year.

 

Mel, at the risk of mansplaining reading book provides a deep dive into cultures outside of one's own.  The books I've enjoyed the most did this for me.  Whether it was the The Kite Runner or Cold Mountain, reading outside ones culture broadens one's perspective and helps one relate to their fellow (wo)man.  You simply can not communicate ideas contained in a book on social media.

 

Sure their are people who only read stories in the same genre from their own culture -- stuff they are familiar with.  I think these readers short change themselves.  It s sort of like going to Atlantic City every year for vacation. People can do what makes them happy, but that is not me, there is a whole world to explore.  The same holds true for the World Wide Web; even if facebook were well behaved, why limit yourself to that one platform?

 

I hear you Mel.  From my perspective woman/man is a gender ladies/gentleman is more polite and formal way of addressing someone.  I think we should keep that distinction, as it make the language richer.  It is like the word father:  a sperm donor is a father, but there is no English word to distinguish one who raises their children.

 

13 hours ago, Delano said:

Listening to someone doesn't mean they felt that you heard them. 

 

Obviously, this is true.  Generally, this is the case when the other person holds a different opinion.  

 

10 hours ago, Delano said:

There's no place for name calling. My apologies. 

 

Ah, don't sweat it man, we all do it from time to time.  I just try not to make it a substitute for a good argument 😉

 

For those of you who celebrate the white man's holiday, HAPPY THANKSGIVING!

 

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