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Troy

Malcolm X Debates Evie Rich (1961) - This is Deep

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6 hours ago, Troy said:

The obsessive belief that the way Europeans do things is the right way is also disappointing -- especially when you look at our abysmal divorce rates. 

 

The failure to even consider that arranged marriages might have benefits or even be superior is narrow minded but typical of Americans who believe everything they do is best, while lagging the world in education...

@Troy  

Here in the U.S. “arranged marriage” are consensual. Maybe “arranged selection” is a better description. 

 

While it’s debatable whether anyone thinks europeans are correct about marriage - we still have US code of common laws based on English law.

 

Marriage is a legal and binding contract between two people.  Before entering into the agreement, the two have to meet certain criteria. In addition to being of age of consent, the party can’t be coerced ; there has to be mutual consent AND of course they have to qualify for the marriage law itself. (It was just a few years ago same-sex marriage was outlawed)

 

Any legal marriage here in the U.S. wasn’t arranged but rather the couple were asked to decide from a smaller pool of candidates.  

 

The families made an effort to find suitable mates to decide upon.  The two always had the right to reject - especially if they decided on someone outside of the parameters.  

 

Most U.S. marriages occur in a similar fashion, with two people meeting within their social or professional groups.  Many couples still meet each other’s family for approval. 

 

I assumed you were referring to forced marriage which is not legally binding in the U.S. 

 

BTW, whether marriage or being independent determines happiness is purely subjective. 

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Im not in favor of forcing people to get married. Nor am i in favor of old nen infecting young girls with AIDs. One is taking another's freedom and the other is violent. In general, im against both of these things.

 

Of the two arranged marriages I'm thinking one took place in America and the other took place in India. I'm not versed in all the rules both couples were happy. Both guys had professional jobs in financial services.

 

No need to womansplain marriage, i went through the process ;-)

 

 

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1 hour ago, Troy said:

I'm not versed in all the rules both couples were happy.

@Troy I am - thanks to my mother,  oldest daughter and most surprising from when I worked as an international flight attendant.

 

Depending on the caste -those are consensual marriages where  the arrangment is more like a “bake sale”. In one case I know of, they can choose from a variety of people from the same town. (I think it’s weird because these folks have to be distant cousins.) The older sister has to marry first - then the next sister gets to pick. If the older sister is “fat” the younger sister gets to be single for a lot longer... I also know of couples who married outside of their caste and ethnicity too.  

 

Glad you cleared up you’re against forced marriages.  I was giving you the side eye over here. 😊

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Nubian

Brother you make many good and valid points, however most of them are IRRELEVANT in relationship to the point I'm making.
Cannibalism and whether or not we should adopt ancient African traditions have little to nothing to do with MY POINT that we should judge a man by a balance of his ENTIRE life's work instead of condemning him simply for his infrequent episodes of misconduct.

Also, although I don't advocate it as the most ideal system I wouldn't entirely dismiss the idea of arranged marriage.
Sometimes your parents and elders know YOU better than you know yourself in your youthful ignorance and immaturity and thus they may know more about what and who is best for you in the long run.

Many times I've had older  men in my family warn me about the character of certain females I was involved with that I later found they were right on point because they were wise enough and had been around long enough to KNOW better than I had.

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On 12/5/2018 at 9:03 PM, Pioneer1 said:

I seriously doubt a subject like that would be brought to my or any other customer's attention unless that contractor's competitors or enemies were trying to launch a smear campaign against them.

 

No!!!-- @Pioneer1 LOL, I'm screaming now! Listen, there is such a thing as grown men forcing themselves on teenage girls! It has happened. I am asking you about 'if that were your own teenage daughter'. It doesn't matter if someone tried to launch a smear or hate campaign against 'your contractor'. I'm asking you, 'What if it was true and it was YOUR TEENAGE DAUGHTER'. You are diverting my question. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Chevdove said:

 

No!!!-- @Pioneer1 LOL, I'm screaming now! Listen, there is such a thing as grown men forcing themselves on teenage girls! It has happened. I am asking you about 'if that were your own teenage daughter'. It doesn't matter if someone tried to launch a smear or hate campaign against 'your contractor'. I'm asking you, 'What if it was true and it was YOUR TEENAGE DAUGHTER'. You are diverting my question. 

 

 

 

Well stop screaming...lol.
Perhaps I answered too quickly and didn't grasp the full meaning of your question so I will RE-answer it.

If that man.....or any man....sexually FORCES himself on my teenaged daughter I would seriously injure or kill that man.

Does that answer your question?



 

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On 12/5/2018 at 9:03 PM, Pioneer1 said:

If he was good enough at his job and wealthy enough, depending on my daughter's age I just MIGHT consider whether or not he'd make a good HUSBAND and PROVIDER for my daughter!

 

OMG! Her age!? A TEENAGER! Okay let's see here . . . 13 or 14 or 15 or 16 or 17 or 18 or 19 . . . Let me see here . . . what was I doing when I was 13 . . . 19. 

At 13, I was still playing with toys and I was not even interested in boys. I was i MIddle School, 7th grade going to 8th grade. a total child. . . . At the age of SWEET 16 I was a senior in high school and at that time, I could not even imagine a grown man forcing himself on me!!! OH WAIT A MINUTE . . . THAT DID ALMOST HAPPEN with my high school History teacher . . . I begged him to stop . . . and he did. I was a complete Virgin at the time. WOW to think I could have been forced into a marriage or motherhood at that time. . .  @Pioneer1 You would allow your own daughter to be married as a teenager!!!? No way!

 

  

4 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Well stop screaming...lol.
Perhaps I answered too quickly and didn't grasp the full meaning of your question so I will RE-answer it.

If that man.....or any man....sexually FORCES himself on my teenaged daughter I would seriously injure or kill that man.

Does that answer your question?

 

LOL! Yes! You responded while I was typing the previous response! LOL. I didn't realize you were on!

 

THANK YOU! 

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Chev

:P Naaaaah Alice honey, you aren't going to take me down THAT rabbit hole......LOL.

I'm going to focus on MY POINT that Elijah Muhammad and the Lost Found Nation of Islam was one of the most effective forces in reforming and advancing the socio-economnic status of the masses of poor Black America in the 20th century and his personal indiscretions will not change nor tarnish that fact.

 

All this about discussion about which age is the most appropriate for marriage and how soon should a female have sex and puberty and menstration and all of that.....I'm not going there.


Just like I told our brother Nubian as he tries to engage me over the relevance of African traditions, I'm not going there.

I'll sit back and observe, but don't expect me to actively participate.

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On 12/6/2018 at 7:13 AM, NubianFellow said:

he Black woman is the most unprotected woman on the planet, but not due to the Black man not protecting her to his best ability individually. The problem is systemic in that there is a system put in place to keep us powerless. And do I blame the Black man? Absolutely! One hundred percent. Its only because I see the Black man as a god, which means we don't have the luxury of excuses. . . . 

 

We've become used to mediocrity and the men always are supposed to lead. . . . 

 

WOW! I realize this response was directed to Delano, but I would like to respond.  NO ONE SHOULD HAVE THE LUXURY OF EXCUSES.

Women can't be leader!? Women can't be leaders that should also be held responsible for good as well as bade actions!?

 

On 12/6/2018 at 7:13 AM, NubianFellow said:

If you are talking about protecting the Black women to the best of our ability - collectively, then the Black man has not only failed the Black woman, but he has failed his race, the kids and hope for our future. And I put everything that's wrong with Black people on the shoulder and back of the Black man. It's our job to repair what we have allowed to become destroyed. And if we don't do that, who the hell are we not to accept accountability, even if that means our own extinction, from which it appears, we will be the biggest participants of.

 

Thank God for America then, because my children were forcibly taken away from me byway of A BLACK WOMAN JUDGE and due to many BLACK WOMEN SOCIAL SERVICE WORKERS. This BLACK WOMAN judge broke up a Black FAmily because she hates BLACK MEN. She hated me because I was married and I had to get media to expose her. Others have stated the same about her. All of these women that assisted in a cover up, were NOT MARRIED or had NO CHILDREN or NO SONS. This judges mother had her and her sister out of wedlock and they have been made to HATE THEIR FATHER, a BLACK MAN. This GENDER STRUGGLE between Black people needs to stop. This issue happened way back in time, in Africa, byway of White Supremacist Movement. . . in ancient times. So, no, I don't really 'give thanks to America' because this judge was selected to be a judge in FAMILY COURT by Americans!!! She was selected by the vote, even though she had no husband, never been married, and she had no children. Yes, as in ancient times, WOMEN SHOULD BE LEADERS, but they should also be held accountable for our plight today. Otherwise, we will never be free. 

 

 

Pioneer

 

 

13 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

I'm going to focus on MY POINT that Elijah Muhammad and the Lost Found Nation of Islam was one of the most effective forces in reforming and advancing the socio-economnic status of the masses of poor Black America in the 20th century and his personal indiscretions will not change nor tarnish that fact.
 

All this about discussion about which age is the most appropriate for marriage and how soon should a female have sex and puberty and menstration and all of that.....I'm not going there.

 

@Pioneer1 Okay. I will respect that. But as for others, I hope they do go down 'that rabbit hole' cause they may find that there is a bottom to it.

And, that Movement did nothing for me. I sat at the table and studied with an Islamic man and he did not agree with that man you support. That nation is divided today, because that leader had sex with teenage girls and that is a serious problem. So, I will leave off of this topic with you, but I will continue.

 

A CHILD SHOULD NOT BE FORCED TO HAVE SEX WITH A GROWN ASS MAN!

 

 

 

On 12/6/2018 at 12:35 PM, Troy said:

You can condemn one gender for a problem neither gender is addressing very well. We are FAR too dependent on those who have created the hostile environment we live in -- their media and businesses.

 

Ah well!!! There you go!!! THANK YOU @Troy

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Chev
 

A CHILD SHOULD NOT BE FORCED TO HAVE SEX WITH A GROWN ASS MAN!


Hey, I agree 100%

And if any man is found to have forced himself on a child sexually he should be punished.

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1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

I'm going to focus on MY POINT that Elijah Muhammad and the Lost Found Nation of Islam was one of the most effective forces in reforming and advancing the socio-economnic status of the masses of poor Black America in the 20th century and his personal indiscretions will not change nor tarnish that fact.

Tell me. if the NOI was so great why weren't you motivated to join it?  Why did you, instead, remain a member of the vast majority of black Americans, - millions and millions of people who this provincial organization had no influence on.  You don't even exhibit any signs that your affinity for the NOI made you an exemplary non-Muslim.  You are, instead,  someone who spends his time scraping the bottom of the barrel looking for excuses for lechers, and proselytizing pseudo African concepts that originate in the jungle of your imagination. Specifically, what major socio-economic change can you point to today that  can be attributed to this minor little sect this is a blip in the black radar  and was headed up by a religious charlatan  who thought he was entitled to sleep with and impregnate innocent young girls and who arranged the murder of his most eloquent and devoted spokesman?

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On ‎12‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 2:10 PM, Cynique said:

Tell me. if the NOI was so great why weren't you motivated to join it?  Why did you, instead, remain a member of the vast majority of black Americans, - millions and millions of people who this provincial organization had no influence on.  You don't even exhibit any signs that your affinity for the NOI made you an exemplary non-Muslim.  You are, instead,  someone who spends his time scraping the bottom of the barrel looking for excuses for lechers, and proselytizing pseudo African concepts that originate in the jungle of your imagination. Specifically, what major socio-economic change can you point to today that  can be attributed to this minor little sect this is a blip in the black radar  and was headed up by a religious charlatan  who thought he was entitled to sleep with and impregnate innocent young girls and who arranged the murder of his most eloquent and devoted spokesman?

 


I'll tell you why.....right AFTER you tell me why if Malik (whom you still call "Malcolm")   "told it like it was" and was the example of a real man who reminded you of a father figure then why the hell didn't YOU join the movement so that you could either MEET a man like that or support it simply to encourage them to keep producing more men like that.

 

Don't wait 50 years later when Malik has gone off the scene to start praising him as a real "man's man".
You had your opportunity to do it when he was alive.

The only reason you CLAIM to respect and admire him now is because he's gone and not on this site calling you out on your hypocrisy.


 


As to your other question.......

 


Besides the man you CLAIM to admire so much, Elijah and the NOI produced:

Muhammad Ali one of the world's greatest boxers
Naim Akbar one of the world's greatest AfroAmerican psychologists
Kareem Adul Jabbar one of the world's greatest basketball players
Minister Louis Farrakhan who in 1995 organized the largest demonstration ever to be held in Washington D.C.


The Black Panthers came out of the Nation of Islam

The fact that so many Black people call eachother "brother" and "sister" today is as a result of the Nation of Islam.

The fact that so many Black people call eachother "Black" today instead of "colored" or "Negro" is as a result of the influence of the Nation of Islam

Much of Rap and Hiphop and artists like the Wu Tang Clan, Ice Cube, and Public Enemy are a product of those who've accepted the teachings of the Nation of Islam.

Ungrateful woman......
You need to STOP getting it twisted and recognize that it was ELIJAH MUHAMMAD and his organization who cleaned up the man you CLAIM you admire today.....stopped him from being a pimp, drug dealer, and abuser of women and helped make him the man the world remembers today.


If you wanna start condemning organizations that abuse young children, take your ass to the nearest Catholic church and START THERE and perhaps you may have just a little more credibility with me.

 

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Based on various chauvinistic and misogynistic statements made by the male members. I am proud to be seen as being more supportive to the women. You have offered proof that erodes your claim of protecting black women. 

 

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1 minute ago, Delano said:

Based on various chauvinistic and misogynistic statements made by the male members. I am proud to be seen as being more supportive to the women. You have offered proof that erodes your claim of protecting black women. 

 


.....just as long as you don't confuse SUPPORTING Black women with actually PROTECTING them.

People in distress need a police officer not a damn cheerleader, lol.

 

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On 12/1/2018 at 2:02 PM, Mel Hopkins said:

 

@Troy

I don't recall @Delano speaking for me or @Cynique ...   So I didn't miss anything.

 

What I do recall is a thread started by Delano   and his sharing an opinion on the topic. 

It was here : when you asked "

 

@Mel Hopkins do you also buy into @Delano's unsubstantiated belief that black men dont respect black women? "

 

Instead of asking my opinion on the topic, here you ask me if I buy into Delano's belief. 

 

Since you're tone deaf on the topic, this is how you attempted to take away my agency -

 

While we're on the topic of the agency - why are you implying that Delano's is speaking for women?   Isn't it possible that he also believe that black men don't protect or respect black women?   This is exactly what Malcolm X said in that video clip.  I didn't think Malcolm X was speaking for women - he simply made an observation that he wanted men to correct. 

 

On 12/3/2018 at 1:43 AM, Pioneer1 said:


I don't give a shit IF he banged 10,000 young secretaries and was smiling to himself while I was doing it!

...that's between him-them-and The Supreme Being who is the Ultimate Judge.

When no one else gave a damn about helping Black men...HE DID.
For over 40 years!

 

On 12/4/2018 at 9:25 AM, Mel Hopkins said:

 

 OMG... I can’t believe anyone would think it’s ok to use young women jack up their lives and let them raise up “bastard” children in a religious sect -because they were the top seller of  some bean pies. 

 

I Just can’

 

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On 12/8/2018 at 4:42 AM, Chevdove said:
On 12/6/2018 at 11:13 PM, NubianFellow said:

We've become used to mediocrity and the men always are supposed to lead. . . . 

 

WOW! I realize this response was directed to Delano, but I would like to respond.  NO ONE SHOULD HAVE THE LUXURY OF EXCUSES.

Women can't be leader!? Women can't be leaders that should also be held responsible for good as well as bade actions!?

 

24 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

.just as long as you don't confuse SUPPORTING Black women with actually PROTECTING them.

Why not ask  the women their perspective? 

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51 minutes ago, Delano said:

 

Why not ask  the women their perspective? 


Since YOU seem to be their designated spokesman, if I had any questions for them I'd probably just ask YOU....lol.
 

 

BTW.........

 


Troy and Del

A little bit of information you may find interesting.

Since you both grew up Uptown in the 70s you DO realize that many of the rappers like Jay Z, Nas, and Poor Righteous Teachers as well as many others belong to a Nation of Islam splinter group known as "the nation of gods and earths"  or "Five Percenters" right?

This group was started back in the 60s in Harlem when one of Elijah Muhammad's ministers Clarence 13X was put out of the Nation of Islam and decided to start his own organization using much of the Nation of Islam's teachings but with fewer restrictions.
It became really popular with many of the young people in the streets and it heavily influenced rap music.

Erykah Badu and the Wu Tang Clan also are adherents to the Five Percent Nation.

They often call eachother "god" and "cipher".
 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

A little bit of information you may find interesting.

Do you know why Professor Grif was kicked out of PE?

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:
1 hour ago, Delano said:

 

Why not ask  the women their perspective? 


Since YOU seem to be their designated spokesman, if I had any questions for them I'd probably just ask YOU....lol

You are too smart for me to debate. 

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:


Since you both grew up Uptown in the 70s you DO realize that many of the rappers like Jay Z, 

Who told you a self acknowledged drug dealer was a 5%. Do you know why they are called 5 percenters?

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:


They often call eachother "god" and "cipher".

What's your source. 

I never heard any called cipher growing up. Do you know what it means? 

 

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5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

'll tell you why.....right AFTER you tell me why if Malik (whom you still call "Malcolm")   "told it like it was" and was the example of a real man who reminded you of a father figure then why the hell didn't YOU join the movement so that you could either MEET a man like that or support it simply to encourage them to keep producing more men like that.

Take this straw man argument and shove it. I never said Malcolm, who was only  8 years my senior, was a father figure to me!  That's your distorted BS, portraying me as a being some awe struck youngster because i appreciated him telling it like it was  when it came to white treachery, something i made clear was nothing new to me because i'd heard my father say it all before! Your whole concocted scenario is, as usual, off kilter. You seem to think that i just had some kind of an epiphany about Malcolm X and that my opinion of him changed from what it has always been. i was never impressed by how he was duped by Elijah Muhammad and how he swallowed that silly story about how some black scientist created white men.   He was never anyone i was interested in becoming a follower of, because his vision of an all-black  state was a pie in the sky dream  and all of his revolutionary rhetoric was wishful thinking.  I still call him Malcolm X just like everybody else because that's who he was to me.  His  adopted name Malik is just trivia. Malcolm X was an articulate charismatic figure during the black struggle, but not someone i idolized.  He was no more manly than a  lot of other black men who were civil rights activists. My perspective of him is the same as it has always been.  And i am not a child abuse crsader  but i am a truth teller and nobody can deny the facts about Elijah Muhammad being a lecherous child molester. And the reason i never considered joining the NOI was that nothing about its leader and its stringent, dreary lifestyle appealed to me.  So your rebuttal is a crock of crap. You just made a ranting fool of yourself. 

 

5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Don't wait 50 years later when Malik has gone off the scene to start praising him as a real "man's man".
You had your opportunity to do it when he was alive.

The only reason you CLAIM to respect and admire him now is because he's gone and not on this site calling you out on your hypocrisy.

Oh, puleeze.   I didn't wait 50 years to start praising Malcolm.  i did gave him his props when he was alive.   I said that back then i appreciated him reprimanding white people.  You don't know whether you are coming or going; drowning in your false equivalency arguments. And when did i call him a "real man's man"?? Once  again you are misrepresenting me!  What i actually said was that i would be arguing with him if he was alive today, and would sarcastically imply that the only men Muslim women needed to be protected from was chauvinistic Muslim men. Hypocrisy, hell.   

 

As for you treatise about Elijah Muhammad and the black Muslims having more impact on black America than any other organization, it's just a bunch of half-truths and exaggerations by someone desperate to defend his position.  NOI's impact is no greater than any other civil rights or literary or fraternal or musical  movement in the black spectrum. And today the NOI is just a residue of the past.  BTW, i don't really give a damn why you didn't join the Muslims.  Who cares?????    Yawn. 

 

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Del

Do you know why Professor Grif was kicked out of PE?


According to what he's said it was because Chuck and some others were pressured into kicking him out over alleged anti-semitic remarks he made while in Europe.

 


 

Who told you a self acknowledged drug dealer was a 5%. Do you know why they are called 5 percenters?


Lol.....
That MUST be a rhetorical question.
Why in the world would I tell you about an organization I didn't know about myself????

Jay-Z repeatedly refers to himself as "god" and "cipher" in his songs.
And there are many who claim the Five Percent who also sell drugs, smoke weed, and steal.
They are called "POOR Righteous Teachers" because poor doesn't just mean financially poor but also a term used for empathy.




What's your source. 

I never heard any called cipher growing up. Do you know what it means?
Because they would stand around in circles (cipher = 0) and recite the Nation of Islam lessons.




Cynique

 

As for you treatise about Elijah Muhammad and the black Muslims having more impact on black America than any other organization,

 

I never said that.
Lol, you really need to stop yawning and pay attention.

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15 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

If you wanna start condemning organizations that abuse young children, take your ass to the nearest Catholic church and START THERE

 

Ouch!

 

14 hours ago, Delano said:

Based on various chauvinistic and misogynistic statements made by the male members.

 

Spare us the self congratulatory hyperbole and the gross offensive generalization.

 

@Delano you really seem to be bending over backwards to gain the approval of women, even going so far as hurl harsher criticism, than necessary, at the men here in order to gain the approval of the women here. 

 

 

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15 hours ago, Delano said:

Why not ask  the women their perspective? 

 

@Delano Thank Del!

 

14 hours ago, Delano said:

Who told you a self acknowledged drug dealer was a 5%. Do you know why they are called 5 percenters?

 

Wow! This a hot debate going on, and I have been wondering about some of these same questions! I have heard about 5 percenters and Clarence X and etc. but never could understand completely. 

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6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Because they would stand around in circles (cipher = 0) and recite the Nation of Islam lessons.

 

Wow. I never knew this. Thanks. Who is Professor Grif!?

 

1 hour ago, Troy said:

you really seem to be bending over backwards to gain the approval of women, even going so far as hurl harsher criticism, than necessary, at the men here in order to gain the approval of the women here. 

 

@Troy As for me, I just want to be appreciated for the good that I do for our people, humanity, as a whole. I don't care for being idolized just because of my gender. 

@Cynique mentioned in another thread her position as 'an ICONOCLAST'; that's me too. I don't want to be idolized just because 'I am a Black Woman'; I want to earn my respect. 

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@Pioneer1 Your  examples didn't live up to your ongoing NOI hyperbole.  Kareem Abdul JAbbar was not a product of the NOI.  The NOI had no influence on Cassius Clay being a skilled boxer. Black Christian Churches and fraternal organization have always referred to fellow members as brother and sister. Hip-Hop would've come into its own without the NOI. Black Panthers are who popularized the term black is beautiful or did referring to negroes as the black man originate with the NOI. The Million Man March was nothing but a gathering which had no trickle down effect when it came to improving the plight of black men. 

 

18 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Lol, you really need to stop yawning and pay attention.

Better i yawn, than barf which is really what your nauseating blather induces.  

On 12/9/2018 at 6:06 PM, Pioneer1 said:

If you wanna start condemning organizations that abuse young children, take your ass to the nearest Catholic church and START THERE and perhaps you may have just a little more credibility with me.

 

 Having credibility with you is not a goal i have set for myself.  It would be a step backward.  There's nothing more to  say about the Catholic Church's history of child abuse that hasn't already been said by Catholics and others.  I put Catholic priests in the same category as Elijah Muhammad, and it goes without saying that they are also lecherous predators. 2 wrongs don't make a right, Dummy. 

 

11 hours ago, Chevdove said:

Cynique mentioned in another thread her position as 'an ICONOCLAST'; that's me too. I don't want to be idolized just because 'I am a Black Woman'; I want to earn my respect

@Chevdove  that's pretty much what the situation currently is. LOL Black men are not into idolizing their women, and we sure have earn their respect, something which often amounts to just conceding to them.  At this point i don't have any expectations.  Black men have to earn my respect before i value theirs. And this varies from situation to situation... 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Jay-Z repeatedly refers to himself as "god" and "cipher" in his songs.

What do you think he means?

So PE is influenced by NOI but dropped Grif for his statement, okay. 

8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

And there are many who claim the Five Percent who also sell drugs, smoke weed, and steal.

What do you think? 

3 hours ago, Troy said:

 

@Delano you really seem to be bending over backwards to gain the approval of women, even going so far as hurl harsher criticism, than necessary, at the men here in order to gain the approval of the women here

 

1 hour ago, Chevdove said:
17 hours ago, Delano said:

Why not ask  the women their perspective? 

 

@Delano Thank Del!

 

8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Jay-Z repeatedly refers to himself as "god" and "cipher" in his songs.

For rappers it's a bunch of rappers on a circle trading rhymes. So using a word in a different context makes him influenced by Islam. Really

If you had said Lord Lamar was influenced I would have thought you knew what you were talking about. Or even Mos Def. 

 

The 5% used to have a table and sell magazines mish wack incense and essence oils. I bought it all. What about you or is your experience second hand, hearsay or from a search engine. 

The 5% of the Nation that is not asleep. @Chevdove

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On 12/3/2018 at 1:43 AM, Pioneer1 said:


I don't give a shit IF he banged 10,000 young secretaries and was smiling to himself while I was doing it!

@Troy what was your response to this statement. 

On 12/5/2018 at 2:02 PM, Troy said:

 

In terms of telling others what their position should be we all do this to a certain extent including you.  You were involved in the fruitless effort to help Pioneer understand the "help" and "assist." If you were not trying to tell Pioneer what to think, what were you trying to do? (Not sure why I bothered to ask that question you will not answer it... )

@Pioneer1 do you think I was telling you what to think. 

The same thing I attempted with  you and global warming. Presenting both sides and asking you to think about it.

In this example I have changed my mind there's a slight difference between the two words. 

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@Delano I'll extend you the courtesy of actually answering your question, a courtesy you rarely extend to me.

 

1st, I'm not going to react to a statement out of context.  That is for places like Twitter.

 

2nd go back and read the entire conversation there you can actually read my response.

 

Finally, think. Stop generalizing and stop jumping to conclusions about situtations you can't possibly know, understand, and even prove like MLK's sexuality. What you are doing is no different than gossiping... 

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19 hours ago, Cynique said:

Black men have to earn my respect before i value theirs. And this varies from situation to situation... 

 

@Cynique LOL I agree. 

 

 

And, I do not want to be idolized and have no intention of idolizing any man.

 

@Delano WOW! Thanks! Very informative link! 

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/word-is-bond-an-ex-con-explains-the-5-percenters

 

I've learned a lot today.  From this article, it seems that this 5 Percenters group stems from prison!? 

That is kind of depressing too, in that all of this rhetoric comes from mostly Blacks who are stuck under the American prison system. They are stuck under the Slave Master, and all the while trying to come to terms with their existence. 

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7 hours ago, Delano said:

@Troy what was your response to this statement. 

@Pioneer1 do you think I was telling you what to think. 

The same thing I attempted with  you and global warming. Presenting both sides and asking you to think about it.

In this example I have changed my mind there's a slight difference between the two words. 

 

Let me make a correction on that statement you quoted that I didn't notice until you quoted it:

I meant to write if he were banging them and HE were smiling, not if I were smiling.

Other than that, my statement still stands.

As long as they were above puberty and he didn't physically force himself on them, he's not a monster in my opinion.

Would I have done it? No
Do I think it was inappropriate? Maybe

However like I said, I judge a man on the wealth of his deeds not on bits and snippets and again, as far as I'm concerned his sexual behavior was between him, them, Sister Clara Muhammad, and The Supreme Being Who will be his ultimate Judge.

Stop thinking like your oppressor who believes that having sex with someone is the worst thing in the world.
They'll go to a nation and slaughter THOUSANDS of people....men, women, and children with weapons.....and get called a "hero".
But if that same person instead decided to grab someone and f*ck them instead of killing them, they would be called the worst of scum.
Why?
Because SEX is the "orignal sin" in the Caucasian psyche......not violence.
Which is why graphic violence is allowed on U.S. televison but nudity isn't.

Stop thinking like your oppressor Del.

A man who has sex a lot of indiscriminate sex isn't the worst person in the world.

 

 

 

Chev

Professor Griff was a member of the 80s/90s rap group Public Enemy.
 

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Elijah Muhammed raped teenage Black Girls. 

 

Pioneer doesn't care.

Troy doesn't believe it.

Nubian is silent.

 

I take the women's side. 

 

And the gentlemen side with a rapist. 

4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Stop thinking like your oppressor Del.
A man who has sex a lot of indiscriminate sex isn't the worst person in the world.

 

I can't defend a man who is a serial rapist.  

 

6 hours ago, Troy said:

elano I'll extend you the courtesy of actually answering your question, a courtesy you rarely extend to me.

 

1st, I'm not going to react to a statement out of context.  That is for places like Twitter.

 

2nd go back and read the entire conversation there you can actually read my response.

Great answer. 

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6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Stop thinking like your oppressor who believes that having sex with someone is the worst thing in the world.
They'll go to a nation and slaughter THOUSANDS of people....men, women, and children with weapons.....and get called a "hero".
But if that same person instead decided to grab someone and f*ck them instead of killing them, they would be called the worst of scum.
Why?

@Pioneer1 What a ridiculous statement.  Where do you get the idea that white people think having sex is the worst thing in the world?? Whites didn't praise their conquerors for pillaging  or condemn them for rape, They just ignored both of these atrocities. I guess you think white slave masters should be given a thumb's up because  what they were doing to their black female slaves was merciful.  SMH

 

This issue is not about race. It is about a female of any age and color having a right to not  be sexually taken advantage of by a  horny pussy monger. Many girls reach puberty at 12, so  according to your standards, this makes them sexually "eligible " for the lust of predators, an attitude which also includes your thinking that black people are more prone to indulge in wanton sex and this is something to boast about.  Even in the animal kingdom, the female of the species selects a mate from all the males trying to impress her, and her choice is the one she discerns would be a good sire for her offspring. But not in your world where it's OK for black folks to just indiscriminately indulge their insatiable desire to copulate because this and the resulting babies are what comes natural to them. 

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57 minutes ago, Cynique said:

This issue is not about race. It is about a female of any age and color having a right to not  be sexually taken advantage of by a  horny pussy monger.

If I follow Pioneer's logic then if you are a leader your followers should give you access to their children. 

What if it were teenage boys. Would your position change. @Pioneer1

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Hey @Cynique i seem to recall you saying you knew one of the offspring of Elijah Muhammad's children. Do you have any insight on her take of the whole situation?

 

While Del was obviously there, I'd like to get another perspective. 

 

@Delano here again you are jumping to conclusions and passing judgement. I said i have no idea what happened, so I'm not prepared to condemn anyone, or the entire NOI, based upon what YOU say.

 

You whimsically, and without a shred of evidence, say MLK had sex with men. You then expect your Brothers to assess his legacy on your imagination. 

 

Keep on spreading gossip, just don't expect me to feed into it.

 

I guess you've already condemned Neil deGrasse Tyson huh?

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2 hours ago, Troy said:

@Delano here again you are jumping to conclusions and passing judgement. I said i have no idea what happened

What judgement. Please post the judgement I made about homosexuality. 

@Troy

Anyone else feel free since I don't believe I made a judgement or even a statement that could be perceived as such. 

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6 hours ago, Troy said:

Hey @Cynique i seem to recall you saying you knew one of the offspring of Elijah Muhammad's children. Do you have any insight on her take of the whole situation?

 Well, we were acquaintances,  not friends since we did not run in the same circles because she was, as we used to call them, "sanctified", a member of the Church of God in Christ which back then forbade its women to wear lipstick, and frowned on drinking and smoking and dancing and playing cards. So her life was pretty much what it would've been had she been raised as a member of the NOI.  Her name was Beatrice and she was an attractive girl and a choir soloist with a beautiful singing voice and a pleasant personality and was cherished by the congregation of her father's church.  But her life took a detour when she was not only whispered about for being a daughter of Elijah Muhammad, - something that didn't come out until we were in our 20s when  the black Muslims had become well known -  but for what happened later when she again became the subject of more gossip after she was left "standing at the altar" in her white wedding gown because the groom never showed up for the rumored reason of being gay. She never wed and became an evangelist and died young, in her early 50s. i have no idea how she felt about the circumstances of her birth but she did have kind, loving adopted parents.  There were a lot of little interesting back stories and skeletons in the closet  among the black population in the small town where i grew up...  

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19 hours ago, Cynique said:

Many girls reach puberty at 12, so  according to your standards, this makes them sexually "eligible " for the lust of predators, an attitude which also includes your thinking that black people are more prone to indulge in wanton sex and this is something to boast about.

 

Yeah, after puberty is 12 or 13 -- a Child!

 

On 12/11/2018 at 9:21 AM, Pioneer1 said:

As long as they were above puberty and he didn't physically force himself on them, he's not a monster in my opinion.

 

@Pioneer1 This is horrible. A man saying that 'he didn't force himself on a 12 year old' -- AND WHAT IN THE HELL COULD SHE SAY TO DEFEND HERSELF AGAINST A GROWN ASS MAN, SAYING THAT SHE WOULD HAVE AGREED!?

 

This makes me sick.

 

I don't think the age of consent is 12, 13, 14 or even 15 and ?

On 12/11/2018 at 9:21 AM, Pioneer1 said:

However like I said, I judge a man on the wealth of his deeds not on bits and snippets and again, as far as I'm concerned his sexual behavior was between him, them, Sister Clara Muhammad, and The Supreme Being Who will be his ultimate Judge.

 

His wealth of deeds is about him having sex with teenage girls. That's where the buck should have stopped...he should have been confronted by Sister Clara Muhammad, and the government. That is what the Supreme Being did, give governments a chance to intervene and do their job! 

On 12/11/2018 at 9:21 AM, Pioneer1 said:

Stop thinking like your oppressor who believes that having sex with someone is the worst thing in the world.

 

Having sex with a child can be deemed the worst thing in the world!

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19 hours ago, Delano said:

If I follow Pioneer's logic then if you are a leader your followers should give you access to their children. 

What if it were teenage boys. Would your position change. @Pioneer1

 

More LIES and garbage.

Just like you've lied on Martin Luther King and couldn't back it up when challenged to do so.
Lied on Malik Shabazz and couldn't back it up when challenged.
I challenge you to back up the lie you just told on me.

My position isn't the one that needs to change because I'm not the one constantly churning out lies in order to slander and defame.



 

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