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Troy

Malcolm X Debates Evie Rich (1961) - This is Deep

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Lol! Damn @Chevdove that was a wild story. Nice opening to a book about a good, hard working man, and his loving, but nutty wife. 

 

@Cynique no (wo)man is perfect. But some are more accomplished and inspiring than others. Neither King or Malcolm were perfect or above critique.  So I'm with you on that regard. I would put Obama in the same category it got to the point for me was beginning to dislike the man because so many (usually women) treated him like he was the second coming. Any critique was met with hostility. I have no problem being critical of Obama, which, for a Black person, is the very definition if being an iconoclast. 

 

I find less to be critical of King or Malcolm that I do of Obama.

 

6 hours ago, Cynique said:

i will confess that black female icons are so much more awesome to me than male ones. 

 

I tend to agree. If you read my newsletter https://madmimi.com/p/6aaf4d?fe=1&pact=1349867-148415217-8791670882-25c1d2bb2a31c65f5317d9dc825a3cdd220b508e I attempt to provide a variety of information, but I've found, over time, the content reflect what i personally feel is important. In this issue mean works that celebrate Black women activitist, who are iften marginalized in favor of the men.

 

Thanks for the nuanced response to my reaction to your rebuttal to @Pioneer1 and @Delano's simplistic atribution of highly opinionated to your personality.

 

To a causal oberverer we could all be called "highly opinionated" but that is crudely reductionist and does not tell your full story. Thanks for continuing to tell your story.

 

5 hours ago, Chevdove said:

But, I have a double standard too, when it comes to Black women who date White men.

 

I do too. It does not make us bad.... just human. I grew up in a segregated ghetto, I know my perspective is influenced by this experience. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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When I was at University I went to hear a speech by Louis Farrakahn. He was different than what his detractors and supporters painted him.

1 hour ago, Troy said:

Thanks for the nuanced response to my reaction to your rebuttal to @Pioneer1 and @Delano's simplistic atribution of highly opinionated to your personality.

@Cynique what's your take on my simplistic attribution?

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7 hours ago, Delano said:

what's your take on my simplistic attribution?

DUH. i think your response was highly opinionated. But not the expression of a self-centered person.  What i said about me being self-centered was that i thought this was how others viewed me.  i don't view myself as self-centered however because  i am too busy focusing on contradicting what others say. So i guess that kind of ties in with Troy said. Note that i never bother to capitalize "i" when it stands alone and this is for a reason... 

 

Once again i have a confession to make.  i didn't join this thread until late because sometimes i stay on the sideline and just let others go at it,  especially when it involves videos because as i've gotten older my attention span is short, and both spoken and written comments have to instantly grab me or i lose interest.  So, when Del asked my opinion on  black women marrying white men and Chevdove shared her thoughts on the exchange between Malcolm and  Evie,  i  back tracked and checked things out closer, which is to say i actually watched the video.  And it was, indeed, like going back in time.  In 1961, i was 28 years old and immersed in the blooming civil rights struggle.  This was during Martin's and Malcolm's hey day, their friendly rivalry kinda like a Michael and Prince thing; different sides of the black coin, one edgy, the other smooth.  This was also when TV had really come into its own having just started to command a wide audience in the mid 1950s.  So "M"&"M"  were superstars, thanks to the exposure granted them by the MEDIA of TV as well as talk-radio which was also an up and coming outlet.  The thing about what they were both saying back then was although it was revelatory to white people, it was familiar to blacks, and when these 2  started spreading their messages,  black folks immediately identified with them.  They weren't saying "Oh, Wow", they were nodding  "Right On".  The things Malcolm was saying about whites i had grown up hearing to my daddy say, something that was common in all black families who lived in a racist society.  i never had any illusions about the guilt of whites but my  particular environment also enabled me to see benefits of what Martin was saying about integration.  As soon as i heard Malcolm's resonate voice on the video,  telling it like it was in response to the shrill, high-pitched enunciations of Evie, the years fell away.  Now, as then, i have mixed emotions, -  which is what it means to be black in America...   

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8 hours ago, Troy said:

To a causal oberverer we could all be called "highly opinionated" but that is crudely reductionist and does not tell your full story. Thanks for continuing to tell your story.

 

 "You cannot enslave a mind that knows itself, that values itself, that understands itself.” ~ Wangari Maathai

 

 

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49 minutes ago, Cynique said:

Now, as then, i have mixed emotions, -  which is what it means to be black in America...   

 

I think only folks over 45 will relate to this feeling.

 

Those on the other side might wonder how there could be anything but emotional rage. 

 

Note: I’m thinking  about Black Twitter raking Michelle Obama over the coals for writing  bothsiderism in a passage that refers to Reverend Jeremiah Wright ... and they’re also poking at EBONY Media Operations for its POWER 100 list (advertising revenue mechanism) but not inviting Miss Flint to the “private” gala.

 

 

 

Again,  maybe Malcolm was onto something. Maybe for Black-Owned Businesses and Black Celebrity Enterprises to thrive they must move beyond the ideals of the black community.   

 

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Mel and Cynique

Lol @ all of this "praise" you two are heaping on Malcolm X.

But something tells me that if he were on this site today you two would be quarrelling with HIM because of his views the same way you love to quarrel with Troy and myself over ours.

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1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

But something tells me that if he were on this site today you two would be quarrelling with HIM because of his views t

 

@Pioneer1 Eh-hem... because of his views?

 

 

It seems like he gets it! ☺️

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18 hours ago, Troy said:

that was a wild story. Nice opening to a book about a good, hard working man, and his loving, but nutty wife. 

 

@Troy LOL!

 

 

11 hours ago, Cynique said:

Now, as then, i have mixed emotions, -  which is what it means to be black in America...   

 

Me too.

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Mel

Oooh yes, you LOVE a good strong brother....when he's dead and gone.

But if he were here right now you'd be fussing and arguing with him over the VERY SAME things you're arguing with the men in this thread over.

If Malik was posting on this thread right now you and Cynique would both take turns:

 

-"How dare you imply women need men to protect them!"

-"Are you saying women aren't strong enough to.....blah blah blah"

-"Black men can't even protect themselves from the police or eachother so why would I wait on a.......blah blah blah".



So you can stop poking your little fist in the air talking about how on point Malcolm was because you KNOW if he were on here you'd be arguing with him and sounding JUST like Evie, lol.

 

 

 

 



Chev

How are you, I haven't heard from you in a while.

Lol....
Perhaps you were away because you were so influenced by our exchanges that it forced you to do further research on the true history and etymology of biblical stories and myths?

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@Cynique you first hand accounts from the past are always fascinating.

 

@Mel Hopkins, thanks for the quote: Wangari Maathai 🙂  ALso, the video you posted regarding Malcolm is the reason I cited the NOI and Malcolm X when asked who protects Black women.  The NOI are not unique, but they are a visible example.  But again the media loves to push the image od weak males.  Strong Black males are marginalized to the point of obscurity, so much so people -- even Black ones -- don't believe we exist.

 

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1 hour ago, Troy said:

ALso, the video you posted regarding Malcolm is the reason I cited the NOI and Malcolm X when asked who protects Black women. 

 

@Troy I thought you wrote "protect THEIR women" ... Malcolm X doesn't say "Muslim Women" even though he refers to himself as Muslim.  From my perspective, that makes a big difference. He doesn't put limitations on his proposed protection for BLACK WOMEN...

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

-"How dare you imply women need men to protect them!"

-"Are you saying women aren't strong enough to.....blah blah blah"


@Pioneer1 Do you remember that I EXPECT black men to provide protection both individually AND as a group...  No one has our (black women) but us and this saddens me.  Oddly enough my daughter felt safe in Dubai because protocol is set up to protect women. For example, women and children ride in the front of the bus - men in the back  - men are not allowed to harass women on the streets...  I'm conflicted because I'm an advocate for personal freedom -but in their strange way, they want women to at least feel safe. What I admire about Malcolm X is he didn't say he wanted women to behave a certain way  or follow his religion to receive protection.

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Mel

 

What I admire about Malcolm X is he didn't say he wanted women to behave a certain way or follow his religion to receive protection.


And here lays the problem.

Because Elijah Muhammad most definately DID demand that women carry themselves a certain way because the most instrumental aspect of a woman's security and protection is HER and how she handles herself.

But Malik didn't have to SAY women must carry and conduct themselves a certain way, it was already understood as COMMON SENSE at that time for women in the Nation of Islam and even most women in the AfroAmerican community.
Things have changed dramatically since the time he gave that speech so while the women must still be protected the also must be RE-CIVILIZED (and the men too) to be taught how to properly conduct themselves.

 


No man with good sense will put his life on the line to protect a skank, or some loud angry verbally abusive woman who goes around dressing provocatively or starting fights with men or other women EXPECTING her man or the men in the community to come running to her rescue.

There are no free rides.

If you want a man to be a man then YOU have to be a lady and act like one and conduct yourself like one; which means you don't put yourself or your man in harms way by STARTING or ENCOURAGING situations that will put your life and safety in danger like dressing provocatively or hanging out in dangerous areas.

If you want a man who will provide you with unconditional protection who will allow you to behave as you please, you need to hire a paid bodyguard because no man with good sense will do it.

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22 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Lol @ all of this "praise" you two are heaping on Malcolm X.

 

9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

So you can stop poking your little fist in the air talking about how on point Malcolm was because you KNOW if he were on here you'd be arguing with him and sounding JUST like Evie, lol.

@Pioneer1  So what is your point? I ask myself if you ever say anything that i don't have a knee jerk reaction to rebut. The answer is apparently, "no".  Where did i heap praise on Malcolm?  i simply described his role during a protest era whose time had come. And, yes,  if he came on here today, i would be arguing with him about Islam because it's a rigid, vindictive, misogynistic religion that i do not like. And i would also wisecrack about the NOI being who Muslim sisters needed to be protected from because of the humble submissive behavior this organization requires of its women who are expected to defer to their men.    

 

Black women have gotten past expecting black men to put their lives on the line for them. Now, black men need to stop expecting certain things from black women like stroking their egos and propping them up and mothering them so they can go out and face the cruel white world that picks on them.    

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44 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Malik didn't have to SAY women must carry and conduct themselves a certain way

 

And that’s what makes Malcolm X , the man.  He didn’t say muslim women he said BLACK Women ...it was unconditional protection. 

 

A man who decides he’ll protect someone when its convenient is a punk-azz-bytch.  So, who needs him! 

 

I speak from experience. I met a black man to pick up tickets for an event. Never laid eyes on him before that moment... As we’re doing an exchange - a cab hit the curb and was heading for us on the sidewalk.  Dude  jumped in front of me ..to body block. The cab stopped on the curb and recovered, thank goodness. But that man put me in a safe place. That’s a man who protects a woman, any woman.  That’s a Malcolm X kinda man.  

 

Yes, it is written he exploited women but then he grew into a man.  

24 minutes ago, Cynique said:

, i would be arguing with him about Islam because it's a rigid, vindictive misogynistic religion that i do not like.

 

Yes! Now if he started talking that nonsense it would be a wrap. #ByeMalcolm . I have no patience for  Islam and roman-catholicism.

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Cynique

 

 

so what is your point?


My point WAS you WERE playing "three card molly" with your phony support of strong protective Black males.....until I called it out and exposed the hypocrisy.

 

You said,
"As soon as i heard Malcolm's resonate voice on the video, telling it like it was in response to the shrill, high-pitched enunciations of Evie, the years fell away"


So when I've said in the past that AfroAmerican men need to protect their community you and Mel claim I'm being hyperbolic and you even go as far as to demand some examples of my standing up for or protecting Black women.  But when Malcolm says the very same thing I've been saying off and on on this site for years.....all of a sudden he's "telling it like it is" ((finger snap)).

Gimme a break.....

At one point you were even comparing the brother to your daddy and started reminiscing, lol.

I felt I HAD to call you out on your bullshit, you do understand don't you?

 

Now YOU, (meaning Cynique alone.....because I think Mel my still be trying to insult my intelligence by continuing to do it....lol) have come right out and admitted that you would be treating Malcolm the same way you're treating Troy, me, and Del -whenever he finds enough nerve to challenge you which is occasionally....lol.    You'd be argumentative and nit-pickish finding every fault you can to criticize HIS strong stances and well defined social perspective -especially when it comes to gender relations in the AfroAmerican community- like you do ours.

So atleast you're now finally admitting that you really WOULD treat him the same, but only because I forced you to.....lol.

I take pride in bringing out the BEST in you Cynique....lol.



 

 

 

 

 




Mel

 

And that’s what makes Malcolm X , the man.  He didn’t say muslim women he said BLACK Women ...it was unconditional protection.


He may be THE man but he wouldn't be YOUR man unless you accepted and respected his authority as your protector.
But be aware that his protection requires a level of submission on your part, lol.

 

If you want  UNCONDITIONAL protection, you don't need brother Malik Shabazz or any other Black man with sense.
You need a damn ROTWIELER.....lol.

Image result for rottweiler

 

 

 

 

I speak from experience. I met a black man to pick up tickets for an event. Never laid eyes on him before that moment... As we’re doing an exchange - a cab hit the curb and was heading for us on the sidewalk. Dude jumped in front of me ..to body block. The cab stopped on the curb and recovered, thank goodness. But that man put me in a safe place. That’s a man who protects a woman, any woman. That’s a Malcolm X kinda man.


Are you serious?

That's just a natural human....or atleast human male.....reaction.
Do you seriously think that same man would escort you through the streets of SouthWest Atlanta, West End, or Bankhead with the same thoughtless courage?

 

 

 


 

Yes! Now if he started talking that nonsense it would be a wrap. #ByeMalcolm . I have no patience for Islam and roman-catholicism.


I know, you want to have your cake and eat it too.

You want a damn fool.....lol.

Someone willing to protect and put his life on the line for you unconditionally without YOU having to take any responsibility for your behavior whatsoever.
 

 


And for the record........

 

A man need not be religious just to expect feminitity and proper behavior in public from the women in his community.

Does she have to walk around covered from head to toe in a blanket with a hole in it for one eye to peak through?
No.
But I and most of the INTELLIGENT AfroAmerican men I know expect women to naturally carry themselves a certain way.


Let's go beyond Black and White.....
Go to downtown Atlanta and look at the East Asian, Indian, and Latina women you see walking around.
Except for the Latinas....most of them are NOT Muslim or Catholic yet watch how THEY conduct themselves.
Do you see them cussing every other word?
Do you se them staring at eachother with evil and dirty looks as if they're waiting on any type of disrespect to give them an excuse to react violently?
Do you see them cussing at their children, snatching them around, or letting them run in and out of the street unattended?

See, these women ACT differently....which is why they're TREATED differently by their men!

The gender roles you mentioned seeing in Dubai exist because of how BOTH the men and women behave, not just the men.

You know good and dog-gone well the women in Dubai don't act like most of the women you see in Atlanta and other urban areas of the United States....yet you wanna sit up there and ask why don't the men treat them the same as the men in Dubai treat their women.

 

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11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

How are you, I haven't heard from you in a while.

 

@Pioneer1 Hey! I'm doing fine. Thank you!

I've been sick with Bronchitis.

11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Perhaps you were away because you were so influenced by our exchanges that it forced you to do further research on the true history and etymology of biblical stories and myths?

 

LOL! 

You need to stop! I've been procrastinating a little, but you forced me to relook at some terms, and that is good! It only reinforced what I already researched. But I am very glad you did. Also, I think I've been sidetracking too, and gossiping. 

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5 minutes ago, Chevdove said:

 

I've been sick with Bronchitis. 

 

 

Ohhhh...
I'm sorry to hear that. :(
Get better baby.

Are you eating or drinking anything like milk, cheese, or chocolate?

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2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Del -whenever he finds enough nerve to challenge you which is occasionally....

Check this, I used to say Pioneer made a good point or his statement is logically consistent. Note I haven't said that recently. 

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story, Rever end Pioneer. 

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@Mel Hopkins, I pretty certain I did not put the condition of "muslim" when I gave Malcolm as an example of protecting Black women which was what was asked.  In any case that was not my intent.  Besides no single Black man can protect all Black women.  That would require a collective effort.

 

But to your point of protecting Black women I was thinking from the perspective of the individuals.  But if you want to say that as a group Black women are unprotected sure I see your point now.  Black men are largely unprotected as well.  Neither can protect the other unless they can protect themselves, when I argue we can't.

 

Our businesses struggle more than they should because we largely don't look out for them.  We say how much faster and cheaper Amazon is -- ignoring their benefits and without investing in our own businesses. 

 

I have support, but not nearly enough to make me immune to Google, Amazon and social media.  What support I do have is the only reason I'm here after 20 years but the next 20 are FAR from guaranteed, if our people chase then embrace shiny object white folks dangle in front of us whether it is AOL, Myspace, Facebook,... then that is all we will have.

 

6 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

#ByeMalcolm

 

Dag! LOL.  No Islam is not for everyone.  But they, as a group, protect their women.  I also wonder not so cavalierly dismiss the NOI as misogynist -- mainstream american culture is far more misogynist.  On of my favorite speakers is Dr Minister Ava Muhammad.  Sh ios a power sister, but you read about here in Essence...

 

 

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19 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

o what is your point?


My point WAS you WERE playing "three card molly" with your phony support of strong protective Black males.....until I called it out and exposed the hypocrisy.

 

You said,
"As soon as i heard Malcolm's resonate voice on the video, telling it like it was in response to the shrill, high-pitched enunciations of Evie, the years fell away"


So when I've said in the past that AfroAmerican men need to protect their community you and Mel claim I'm being hyperbolic and you even go as far as to demand some examples of my standing up for or protecting Black women.  But when Malcolm says the very same thing I've been saying off and on on this site for years.....all of a sudden he's "telling it like it is" ((finger snap)).

Gimme a break.....

At one point you were even comparing the brother to your daddy and started reminiscing, lol.

@Pioneer1You need to go somewhere and sit down. Nothing you say applies to me or proves the point you are attempting to make.  You are seeing what you want to see in a desperate hope to elevate yourself and discredit my ongoing dismissals of your opinions.  Show me where i posted anything other than indifferent  expectations  when it came to black men defending black women or where i reacted in any way other than to proudly proclaim how sistas had each other's backs! You must have me mixed up with Mel or Chevedove. The first Malcolm video inspired my post about past memories and had nothing to do with black men protecting their women.  My reminiscing was in regard  to Malcolm telling it like it is was when it came to white people, not  black men protecting black women. i didn't comment on the second video because i didn't watch it but relied on Mel's assessment.

 

Of course, however,  Malcolm has always told it like it is and for you to compare yourself to him is ludicrous. Your favorite subject is  black women's hair and their attempts to lighten their skin and the same ol  drivel about the sexual prowess of black men who you advise should pick and choose who they will try not to run away from when danger threatens.  Then you try to portray me as "starry eyed" because I accurately described Malcolm's voice as resonate, something the contrasting squeal of Evie enhanced,   I have always liked Malcolm and given him his props, and disliked Farrakhan for being complicit in his murder but as I said, back in the day, he wasn't saying anything i hadn't heard before from my father. So stop taking bows as if you have busted me.  You ain't done nothing but reveal how much you yearn to be a winner.  Try a little harder, LOSER.    

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8 hours ago, Troy said:

pretty certain I did not put the condition of "muslim" when I gave Malcolm as an example of protecting Black women which was what was asked. 

@Troy  

 

 
@Troy  read your post and you will see where you mentioned the possessive “Their women” and Malcolm protects Betty... “
 
Malcolm X said in that clip BLACK WOMEN.. in that clip Malcolm expresses unconditional protection and RESPECT for Black Women ....  
9 hours ago, Troy said:

I also wonder not so cavalierly dismiss the NOI as misogynist -- mainstream american culture is far more misogynist.

 

@Troy BOTH  institutions and systems are misogynistic ... but America has laws to correct and protect women to make existence equitable and equal.

 

There have been no updates to the quran.  

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10 hours ago, Troy said:

Neither can protect the other unless they can protect themselves, when I argue we can't.

A female a protects her child in the animal kingdom. So I am going to disagree with you. 

I have seen more black women than black men protect and comfort black boys. 

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3 hours ago, Delano said:

A female a protects her child in the animal kingdom. So I am going to disagree with you. 

I have seen more black women than black men protect and comfort black boys. 


Lol.......

I call you Mr. Reliable.
Because you can always be counted on to take the sides of the women in almost any argument on almost any issue.

 

But maybe you're on to something.

Perhaps you seeing more Black women (attempting) to defend Black boys explains why so many Black men are unwilling or unable to collectively and PROPERLY defend Black women today.
Look at the examples they had growing up.

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Well I'm not Muslim @Mel Hopkins and have no intentions on joining the NOI, so my defense of them can only go so far, as I have limited knowledge of them. 

 

I never got the impression the NOI only protected "their" Black women to the exclusion of other black women.  In any event, Black people of all genders and even class are all largely unprotected in American culture.  It is one reason why young people join gangs or frats/sororities.   Now we debate who is the  MOST unprotected, but it makes little sense given we are all in the same boat. 

 

2 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Because you can always be counted on to take the sides of the women in almost any argument on almost any issue.

 

I made this observation too, but I also realize masculinity falls on a spectrum and some guys will think more like a woman than others.

 

There is a notion, which I reject, that suggests that there are no inherent differences between men and women (other than our sex organs). I think the failure to knowledge, understand, and embrace these differences has caused a lot of confusion in our culture.

 

Again we all fall on a spectrum so while the average man is taller than the average woman there are plenty of woman who are taller than men. Likewise there guys who think more like a woman than some women.

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So when I agree on a position that you don't, (Pioneer and Troy) have I think like a woman. And when I say Pioneer has a good point Cynique says I have a bromance with Pioneer. 

 

Basta

 

 

Who protected the women from the Honourable Elijah Mohammed? 

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23 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I'm sorry to hear that.

 

@Pioneer1 Thank you. I am trying to get better. It's a long road. I'm on my way back to Florida for awhile and maybe the warm weather will help.

It's cold where I am now, in Maryland.

 

23 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Are you eating or drinking anything like milk, cheese, or chocolate?

 

Milk--no

chees--no

chocolate . . . I'm pleading the 5th. lol!

 

6 hours ago, Delano said:

Who protected the women from the Honourable Elijah Mohammed? 

 

LOL... NOw, that's interesting.

 

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6 hours ago, Delano said:

 

Who protected the women from the Honourable Elijah Mohammed

 

I don't know what you mean?

 

6 hours ago, Delano said:

So when I agree on a position that you don't, (Pioneer and Troy) have I think like a woman.

 

No, but i was cosigning @Pioneer1's observation that you always side with the women on these debates -- even going so far as talking lead in exchanges.

 

Recall when i asked you how @Mel Hopkinsthought about an issue recently. I did that because you were speaking for women in the conversation. Mel came in late and completely missed what I was doing and accused me of taking away her agency when i was actually emphasizing the fact that you had no problem speaking for women.

 

Also i was not making a value judgment about your ability to think like a woman. Are you? Some women may find that trait appealing.

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1 hour ago, Troy said:

I did that because you were speaking for women in the conversation. Mel came in late and completely missed what I was doing and accused me of taking away her agency when i was actually emphasizing the fact that you had no problem speaking for women.

 

@Troy

I don't recall @Delano speaking for me or @Cynique ...   So I didn't miss anything.

 

What I do recall is a thread started by Delano   and his sharing an opinion on the topic. 

It was here : when you asked "

 

@Mel Hopkins do you also buy into @Delano's unsubstantiated belief that black men dont respect black women? "

 

Instead of asking my opinion on the topic, here you ask me if I buy into Delano's belief. 

 

Since you're tone deaf on the topic, this is how you attempted to take away my agency -

 

While we're on the topic of the agency - why are you implying that Delano's is speaking for women?   Isn't it possible that he also believe that black men don't protect or respect black women?   This is exactly what Malcolm X said in that video clip.  I didn't think Malcolm X was speaking for women - he simply made an observation that he wanted men to correct. 

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4 minutes ago, Mel Hopkins said:

why are you implying that Delano's is speaking for women?   Isn't it possible that he also believe that black men don't protect or respect black women?  

 

Because he is. Inorder to make that statements he made he had to be speaking on behalf of women.

 

He obviously does not believe men do not protect women, because this is what he has said.

 

Malcolm was also speaking for women.

 

Look, if you want men to protect you at some point men will have to speak for you.  You cant have it both ways.  If you are so fixated on agency then you better be prepared to take care of yourself (not you specifically, but Black women in general).

 

What @Mel Hopkins are YOU saying (of course anyone may answer)  when you say Black men don't protect Black women? What are we collectively not doing that we should be doing?

 

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32 minutes ago, Troy said:

Look, if you want men to protect you at some point men will have to speak for you.

 

@Troy , You don't have to speak for someone you're protecting.  I've protected my children all their lives but when they were old enough to speak for themselves - I referred to them, I spoke about them but NEVER FOR THEM. I respect them too much.    @Delano also mentioned respect for women.   Do you respect women?  

32 minutes ago, Troy said:

What are we collectively not doing that we should be doing?


I've already answered this in the invisible black males thread.

 

32 minutes ago, Troy said:

If you are so fixated on agency then you better be prepared to take care of yourself (not you specifically, but Black women in general).


Black women ARE caring for themselves.

 

"Natalie Hopkinson, a professor at Howard University, summed it up.

“A lot of black men are just not hearing what black women are saying because they are too busy complaining about their own situation,” she said. “When it comes to really supporting black women, nobody has our back but us.”"


Black women have moved on.  

BUT it would do well to remember, when black women march in the streets because black men are being gunned down - a black man's agency is left intact (Well at least the one's still breathing).  Black women are willing to speak truth to power regarding  state-sanctioned murders and then we vote our interest. Now we black women are holding  seats at all levels of government - except executive office (soon come).    Like I've written before - black women give birth to black boys who grow up into black men - so maybe we protect black men because we have a larger stake in their survival. 

 

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22 minutes ago, Mel Hopkins said:

I've protected my children all their lives but when they were old enough to speak for themselves

 

I feel l like you are mincing words to make a point, sort of like the "help versus assist

 

The implication is that once your kid reached a certain age they became independent and no longer need your protection. Are Black women the same? Do they ever reach a point when they no longer need protection from men? If not why not? What makes them different than your daughters?

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3 hours ago, Troy said:

Look, if you want men to protect you at some point men will have to speak for you

I have said I am not speaking for women. I have said ask women what they think. Mel said she didn't feel I was speaking for women. 

 

I can't believe you said that Troy. 

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11 hours ago, Troy said:
17 hours ago, Delano said:

Who protected the women from the Honourable Elijah Mohammed

 

I don't know what you mean

 

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10 hours ago, Troy said:

feel l like you are mincing words to make a point, sort of like the "help versus assist

 

The implication is that once your kid reached a certain age they became independent and no longer need your protection. Are Black women the same? Do they ever reach a point when they no longer need protection from men? If not why not? What makes them different than your daughters?

@Troy While that may be your perception; connotation of the word “for” is dependent on its context.

 

Since, I spent good part of my career disseminating news to the masses, I know what words can be used interchangeably and what words change the context of the story.  

 

Speaking “for” someone in this context means they are unable. Speaking on behalf indicates support.  Support is the crux of this thesis.

 

Still, I’m not sure why you believe it’s necessary to infantilize black women in an effort to support or protect them.  

 

This is why respect is an important component to protection. 

 

Most black women respect black men and that’s why they’re willing to protect them without diminishing their standing. 

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6 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

why you believe it’s necessary to infantilize black women

 

I'm doing no such thing.  You are taking it that way for some reason.  I assume you are not questioning my respect for Black women.  If you are I'll let me behavior and record speak for itself.  If you mean in general, again. I disagree.

 

Again, @Delano  use YOUR words and tell me what you mean.   I watched the video but you need to explain what you are talking about for the sake of clarity of nothing else.

 

You tell me to ask, but when I do you rarely answer.  You speak for others but lately, not for yourself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Troy you think Black Men  protect Black Women. Mel and Cynique don't agree with you. 

 

You think I am speaking for the women. Yet both Mel and myself say we are not.

 

 

 

I thought it was common knowledge that Elijah Muhammed fathered children with his teenage secretaries. 

 

Delano :

Who will protect Black Women from the Honourable Elijah Muhammed 

 

Troy: 

I don't know what you mean? 

 

Malcolm X:

I was told by Elijah Muhammed's son that his father had children with his teenage secretaries. So I left and was threatened. 

 

Women were being taken advantage of in the NOI by the founder .

It was common knowledge. And when Malcolm X said he was leaving the NOI, he was threatened. So no one in the NOI including Muhammad's son was strong enough to confront him about his sexual activities. 

 

I didn't think that needed any explanation. The founder of any organisation having sex with teenagers that he is not married to is a big problem. So in my head women and especially young women are not safe. When their leader is preying not praying. 

 

Let me know if any of that is incomprehensible to either @Troy @Pioneer1 or@NubianFellow

 

I am awaiting your responses. 

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