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Well, sometimes we don't see ourselves as others do, and are not aware of the tone that emanates from our words. We agree there was friction between Del and Pioneer and, to me, there was a slightly confrontational vibe between Troy and Pioneer, with Pioneer being passive aggressive and Troy exhibiting frustration laced with indignation. I'm not complaining, I find it interesting to observe the exchanges between 3 Alpha Males. I'd also be interested in hearing Mel's impressions on the matter. Don't leave us, Del. You showed a lot of insight in your self assessment, so stay and keep me informed about subjects which I know nothing about.

We didn't say anything that is in disagreement. I never lost my consciousness. We don't lose our consciousness when we join the THE ALL... We are in agreement until we ARE NOT that is when we individuate. In Astral projection, you are still corporeal entity, you’re still matter. Your question reflects a value system; a hierarchy. Value systems exist here in this dimension - This is indicative of people who are still attached to material things... We all are attached to matter in this dimension...It is the foundation of the value system. Still it makes it difficult to answer but I'll do my best. Just like you don't believe there's such a thing as race - the same is true in the other dimension. There's no hierarchy. There's no value system in the eternal. What is the value of infinite? But if I had to judge what has served me well, here, it is understanding of energy and its vibration. Also, seeing light in the dark. Livings things, even things we don't believe have life are illuminated here in this dimension. If it is made from life or of living that energy remains with it. It is same with people - some people give off more light than others - and while I don't believe what people say I do trust their light. The one thing I'll tell you about leaving this dimension and traveling beyond is this: There was no "bright" light like most people say they see. It is an incredible darkness (I wrote this part in my novel) like looking into a school at night where those cut-out shapes of Washington and Lincoln, made from black construction paper, are taped to windows. You can see the shapes even though they are pasted to the window in a dark classroom. When you return here... you can see beyond darkness because everything is illuminated to different degrees. I'm going to post this in the spirituality discussion for @Pioneer1

Delano You may be interested but your tone is condescending and off putting. You may not mean it but it is. Well I AM interested in magic and estoric knowledge, but I'm only interested in the TRUTH of it. I'm not interested in tricks, lies, and psychological games that merely take advantage of the gullible. I'm not accusing YOU of doing this, but I'm saying there are a lot who DO and it CLOUDS the subject and dilutes the truth in it so much that it becomes harder to tell legitimate practicioners from the frauds. Secondly...... My approach to you and your claims is not condescending because I'm not "looking down" on you in any way. My tone and my perception of your claims is SKEPTICAL and quite frankly a little SUSPICIOUS because of the same claims from others who could not or would not prove them. People can talk about and bash America and even Western civilization all day, but when you compare it to a lot of other cultures where all social beliefs must be accepted and can't be questioned in any way without penalty of social ostracization or even death.....atleast we're allowed to question things and get to the truth of the matter. Time out for blind faith and blind belief. 　 You also claim i have not demonstrated any fresh esoteric knowledge. That is a personal opinion that clearly isn't universal. How do you know how many Black people I have read or offered esoteric advice. I don't know what you've done for others or how impressed they are by you, they are not me and I can't base MY knowledge and MY beliefs on what OTHER'S have experienced. I haven't met you personally and don't know what you can or can't do. I don't know about "readings". Studying a person's birth day and telling them general things that anyone with a basic understanding of human psychology for a particular demographic...you can give all sorts of vague advice that may or may not be true. It's a hit or miss. The only thing I can think of right now that would prove your skills is if you: 1. Produce knowledge that can't be found online that I can TEST and discover is true. Like giving me a formula to mix substances together to produce a particular effect. OR 2. Producing some sort of information about a future event at a given time and it actually comes to pass on or very near that particular time. Outside of that......why should me or anyone with common sense believe? BTW I don't think ignoring me or anyone else you disagree with is the way to go. It rarely works and leads to built up frustration. It's better to disagree respectfully from time to time than just plain ignore eachother. But that's just MY opinion. Cynique @DelanoI'm curious and amused how you and Troy were always so impatient with me for not ignoring Sara's attacks instead of retaliating with my own insults . Now both of you aren't the least bit reluctant to exchange personal slurs with Pioneer during your differences of opinion. Why do you think this is? I don't think Troy is slurring me. I think he's a little vexed because I don't see eye to eye with him on the race argument. I think Delano IS annoyed with me because I'm challenging him and he's probably not used to people challenging him on his craft. What was going on with you and Sara was pure unbridled dislike of eachother if not bordering on hatred....lol. Both of you were/are opinionated and strong willed and neither of you wanted to give. BTW.. If you'll recall I warned you to leave that girl alone but you insisted on having your fun. Until she started getting nasty and talking about your titties and your teeth. Then it wasn't fun anymore was it....lol. Further more, I know how far to go with both Troy AND Delano before it gets into slurs and insults. Besides the true and natural respect I have for Troy, I'm always aware that this is HIS SITE....HIS HOUSE....and no matter how much you trade jabs with a man you never disrespect him or show animosity to him in his own house for obvious reasons. Besides not having any animosity towards Delano as a person but just skepticism of his claims, I also keep in mind that Delano is Troy's personal friend of many years.....certainly under his protection....as they would say in the mafia, lol. Troy has made it clear that he's fond of both of us, so why put him a positon where he would have to choose sides to settle a frivolous dispute? Really, this is an exercise in Black people getting along together. Which is why I don't think Delano and I should ignore eachother. It's one thing to ignore someone you disagree with online, but what do we do in real life with people we live and work around all day whom we don't agree with but can't move away from? Black people are going to have to learn to get along with and live with and around eachother at all costs. But again that's just my opinon. 　

@Troy yes Pioneer has annoyed me. It's not skepticism if he asks why Cynique is interested. If you're not interested that's fine. But to insinuate that a rational person is interested is a bit insulting. I will follow your advice as well. And won't be responding to Pioneer at least on this topic. I was subtlety alluding to that point. So do i consider myself an expert no, but i do have practical and theoretical knowledge in the following areas. Astrology Tarot Numbers Magic and Spells. Yeah the issue is resolved im my mind and heart. Thanks for the post. I tend to arc up when a novice is challenging my knowledge as opposed to asking questions. That may not be the intention, but so be it. Now back to the PG. PAL. Baby. Peace and Love. Yeah I don't think i have ever done this before. Except when Troy was using statistics to bolster an argument. And then i dropped it because one we are friends and two I respect Troy. And the effort he makes to start and maintain dialogues across a wide field.

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What are y'all's thoughts about memory? To me, it is a vehicle for time travel. In my declining years, i do a lot of looking back because so much of what was alive and familiar in my life is now "dead" and gone. At night in the dark silence of my solitude is one of the times when I revisit my past, conjuring up visual scenarios that are as vivid to me as the moment they happened. I recall conversations verbatim, and other intricate details. These recollections are not always pleasant ones, either. Music also conjure up memories, especially original recordings of songs by the artist who made them famous. My affinity for music dates back to early childhood when my ears were filled with what was being played on the 78-inch vinyl records spinning on an old turntable. Because I so love the ballads of the 1950s when my life was very intertwined with the hits of the day, I spend my leisure time reminiscing to the selections on a cable music channel that features songs from this era. And speaking of incense, (which I do burn from time to time just to help me relax) certain fragrances and aromas can also bring back memories. I have an old bottle of the cologne that I always wore whenever me and my husband were going out to social events. He loved the scent of it and now every time I take of whiff of it, I am flooded with feelings of nostalgia. Whenever I smell nutmeg spice, I always think of my mother and the apple pies she made. And then, of course, there is imagination. That's a whole other vehicle that can idle in the present or transport me to the future. "The mind is a terrible thing to waste." It is such a miraculous instrument with infinite possibilities.

@Mel That's some deep shit, girlfriend. And it just convinces me that consciousness is a gateway to a different world... @Troy If , as you imply, that anything is possible, then it's possible that you are incorrect in your belief that scientific evidence is infallible. Why? Because it is based on the knowable, not the unknowable X-factor. Physicist Stephen Hawkins, one of the most brilliant minds in the world, reversed himself on the existence of black holes, and now believes they exist. Astronomers came to the conclusion after many years that Pluto was not a planet. The medical profession frequently reverses itself about diseases, at one time dismissing measles as a harmless childhood ailment, only to recently discovering that is a dangerous disease that can have an adverse effect and even lead to death. The treatment for cancer, heart disease and diabetes is constantly changing as more becomes known about their pathology. And, of course, race was once believed to exist until other anthropologists disputed this. So nothing is for sure and we only know what we know until we know more. Mathematics come closest to being a constant. As for what people believe, if what they believe works for them then, in their world, it's true. As for what they think they know, if their ignorance has provided bliss then, in their world, they're ahead of the game. Somewhere between the abstract and the actual is the adaptation that enables people to navigate through the world at large. One man's reality is another one's skepticism.

@Cynique it is the earthly male's greatest downfall. They have the most difficult time with -AND- . I see three men who absolutely want to be heard by each other but go about it in the most clumsiest way. I read through all these posts and I didn't see anyone saying anything diametrically opposed to the other...I saw the proverbial blind men and the elephant. And the frustration building from not each seeing exactly from each other's perspective. Still, I do agree with the alpha theory - it's hard to build alliances without having your POV heard and respected in this society. We as a society do tend to follow and form allegiance to the folks who know the most. (Still can't figure out why 45* is in the Oval office) But I digress.

Absolutely it makes sense! Let me let you in on a secret.. I don't believe anything people say. I do, however, believe they believe it. For example, I don't believe you don't believe I visited another dimension...but I do believe that you rather not believe it because it would force you to lose your grip on this spot and you're doing everything you can to keep your foothold... I get that too - because I'm afraid of losing my grip too. So in a way, skeptics especially natural skeptics allow us, those of us who float between dimensions, an anchor or tether as you mentioned earlier.

Troy So tell me @Pioneer1 , was Mel's statement the thing that convinced you that people can die, transition to the afterlife, and come back to tell the tale, or did you previously believe this? If so why? Well, as I've said in the other thread, I've been studying near death experiences and out of body experiences for over 20 years so YES I believed in this well before hearing Mel's story. Her story was just more evidence for what I already BELIEVED. But to give you a small window to peak into my thought processes....... I separate what I KNOW from what I BELIEVE. My body of KNOWLEDGE consists of what I've personally experience and/or personally observed to be true. My mere BELIEFS consist of information I accept as credible (to various degrees) based on the amount of evidence for it bounced off of my own judgement. Having said that..... 　 I not only BELIEVE but I KNOW the spiritual realm exists because not only have I received plenty of evidence and information on it from various sources through out the years but I've exprienced it first hand. However when it comes to Mel's and other people's NDE's I can't say that I KNOW it happened because I didn't experience nor did I observe what they did. But not only do I BELIEVE that she actually had one but I believe it strongly because so many thousands (probably millions) of people from all over the world have said similar things after dying and coming back or even being near death. Also thousands of indigenous religious systems that existed in ancient societies as well as most modern societies that haven't had the monotheistic religions imposed upon them also say similar things about the spirit of the ancestors having died but return from time to time involving themselves in the affairs of the living.

@Mel Hopkins, you know what would convince me if you told me something that only someone back from the dead could know... but I don't even know what that could be. Obviously, it is nothing personal (am I'm glad you haven't taken it that way), but I'm a natural skeptic, so it takes a lot to convince me something is true... just as it take a lot to convince me something is impossible. Does that make sense? I friend of mine studied Reki. I spend the night at her house once and she and her boyfriend told me they both saw a UFO (alien spacecraft) while they were driving down the New Jersey turnpike. Needless to say they were amazed and pulled their car over to watch it more carefully. They also told me other cars were pulled over watching it too! Now this is a smart sister and she is educated, but I found her story hard to believe. One would think something like that would at least make the news... Now I don't think she was lying to me or yanking my chain, but I have no way to disprove her story and while find it hard to believe I have not ruled it our of the realm of possibility. I'm an open minded skeptic. Of course, if she took a photo that would have helped. If I saw it myself, that would help even more. But even if I saw it with my own eyes, I probably would not believe it right away. I would consider very strongly more likely causes than a visit from extraterrestrials.

@Cynique its my ego. And its a waste if time on my part. I am breaking my own rule. You cant prove anything,much less so to to a person who is dogmatic and sure of their position. Duly noted and thank you,Cynique. It's my Achilles Heal. I spend an exorbitant amount of time and energy perfecting my craft. And tend to overreact to criticism from disbelievers. I need to bury this and focus on my craft and my steadily growing clients both paid and otherwise. Once again I appreciate your wise counsel. Del

@DelanoI'm curious and amused how you and Troy were always so impatient with me for not ignoring Sara's attacks instead of retaliating with my own insults . Now both of you aren't the least bit reluctant to exchange personal slurs with Pioneer during your differences of opinion. Why do you think this is?

Spirituality is knowing and understanding things around you are more than what you can actually see.