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Troy, like any group activity there is an indoctrination. Street gangs, frats, biker clubs, all deal with the process of fraternization. Trust me I get this. Your dad is much older and was in a different Navy. As a matter of fact that older group of guys talk about the blatant racism that existed in the Navy. I'm not naive about any of that. When people look at the military or any job, it doesn't matter what it is, people can find racism and difficult issues. It is what it is. When I graduated I made some really bad decisions that landed me in Jail/juvi. I was temporarily placed in jail because I didn't have ID and once it was verified that I wasn't as old as I looked I was in Juvi. That's a crazy story, but I still made shitty choices after this and I was given an option. I chose to enter the Navy. Like I said, my company was filled with guys who had gone to college, worked jobs, had families and were older, all types. The choice to serve was varied. Sara, It's not one upping, I don't care what you've done, if you weren't military you can't speak with certainty because you aren't that. Can you speak to the job you held, sure. Is that just as valid when addressing homelessness, of course, but I would never, ever claim to understand the job of someone that I haven't done. I think that's wrong. Troy, I can never say I understand what you go through running AALBC, because I haven't done that job. Do I get the challenges? Sure, but I can't speak with certainty about what you do or have done. That's all I'm saying. That's not one upping (Sara) or disregarding (Troy) what you have to say, it's just the honest truth in how I feel and how anyone who has done something that others haven't done whether it's military, or coaching a sport, or teaching. I mean damn Sara even said it herself, I can't speak to her job of working with veterans, but she can speak to my shit. FOH! I swear writing something on this board is a waste of fucking time because Sara has worked in every job that exists and has evidence of everything so no one is ever right and everyone is trying to prove you (Sara) wrong. I don't give a fuck about you and what you've done. My name was brought up because someone asked if I found the military valuable. I said that I love the military and most of the people I know love the military and love this country. I also said, that the people who are homeless more than likely were the guys that served in the jobs where they didn't have a school or skill. (If you want to do the research to try to figure that out you can, but I am willing to bet that those guys who are homeless were the guys in infantry or in lower skilled jobs and quite frankly they would have probably ended up in that situation whether they were in the military or not). There are 600,000 homeless people. 50,000 of them are veterans. There are on average a million people serving in the military at one time. Using homelessness to establish that the military is bad for people is kind of a damn stretch. Race would be a bigger factor which takes this dialogue right back to all of the issues on the other talks, racism. You guys are using homelessness as a way of disparaging the military and saying that it isn't good for people. If you don't like the military, that's cool. That's your right as a person who lives in the greatest nation in the world as far as I'm concerned. I think the military offers a very good education if you go for the jobs that you want on the outside. I think the military offers a great opportunity to gain an education after you leave the military. I think that it's a great option for someone who is unsure of what they want to do, but would like to gain direction and discipline. That is my right to think this way and be proud of my service and my experience. You have a right to think that the military leads to homelessness. I would say lack of education, and social issues lead to homelessness. The military is just one of the easiest things to analyze as it relates to homelessness. It's very straightforward. Someone says "Were you in the military?" Homeless person says, "Yes". I just tried to google/bing Homeless educators, homeless professional athletes, homeless factory workers and homeless social workers and you know what? No one is really doing any research on that. But if you search for race and homelessness, that appears to be the biggest factor. If Blacks are the majority of homeless, and Blacks make up a greater percentage of the lower level jobs in the military logically Veterans are going to be more homeless than other people so it's kind of a given right? Does this mean that the military is bad? No. Not to me. "45% of Homeless veterans are Black." The threads always go off topic, so I will end my rant here by saying I love the U.S. I love the military. That was the original question that was posed when my name came up.

Chris you appreciate the fact that the purpose of boot camp is indoctrination right? It is no different than pledging a frat, you are broken down to be built back up again. This is a necessary part of the process otherwise you'd have too much insubordination and a lack of unity. Anytime you go through a challenging experience with anyone bonds are formed and this of course is well understood by the military. But if you assert and believe the argument, that you have to serve in order to speak on the issue. i guess there is nothing a non military person can say to you that would influence you. But you must appreciate that "you can't understand until you've done it" argument is flawed for several reasons. i guess the biggest one is that people in the military disagree with each other. My father served in the Navy, much longer than you served, 20 years. One of the few things he ever said to me was "don't go into the military." He died at age 44. But that is just an anecdote as is all of your experience and the experiences of everyone else you know. You can get much better insight by looking at the information you found: "...veterans continue to remain overrepresented in the homeless population in America." basically that says if you go into the military your chances of being homeless increase over that of the general population. You don;t need to have served in the military to understand this. Cynique wrote that enlisted men go into to become officers citing it as a benefit. I knew that to be inaccurate, but I know her belief is part of what informs her opinion. At the end of the day Chris, you spent 8 years in and had a great experience and that is terrific. All I'm saying is not everyone has your experience, some even end up dead. I'm also suggesting that many of the young people that sign up don't feel they have many other options, and I'd argue that is a problem of our culture. In fact it sounds like you are one of those people. @CDBurns, what path were you headed down that made you join the military?

You don't have to "GTFOH", Chris Burns. Harry Brown started this thread on the Cynique's Corner forum of AALBC, a site run by Troy Johnson.

I've watched this new version of Roots from the start and in my opinion it is well produced and directed and gives a very interesting slant on slavery, showing for one thing, how the slaves tried to rebel on the ships coming across the Atlantic. Snoop, who is enslaved to weed, needs to liberate himself from the mindset that wants depictions about slavery swept under the rug. Even though he's a millionaire celebrity he doesn't seem to realize that at any given time and any given place, he can be slapped down by the racism that is the hangover from slavery.

Everything about this subject is anecdotal. For every recruit who didn't benefit from basic training, there is one who did. I've never met anybody who regretted their time spent in the military. And there's no way of knowing whether homeless veterans have a negative view of their military experience or not. They may even be disappointed in themselves because they weren't able to maintain the discipline they'd been taught, And, of course, a great many homeless people are suffering from mental problems and whether they were in the military or not has nothing to do with their inability to function in a society where they are misfits. Chris' subjective generalizations are no more off-putting than injecting a bunch of data without considering extenuating circumstances. The military is an American institution. And just like all the others, is open for controversy.

Now THIS is a slavery-time flick I wouldn't mind spending my money to see. I'm sure Snoop Doggy Dogg Lion wouldn't either. Movies like this and Glory aren't as offensive as Roots or 12 Years a Slave because more than showing helpless Black men and women getting raped, whipped, and killed....it actually shows the resilience of Black manhood in the face of oppression and violent opposition. People often go to the movies to ESCAPE reality. Especially Black men who live in a society where their manhood is constantly challenged.