Mel Hopkins

30 minutes ago, Troy said:

I was just observing that if a woman feels they have to go through mental and emotional gymnastics just to attract a decent dude; they are going to be in for a rough ride once the relationship gets going because that is not sustainable behavior over the long term.

@Troy yes, THAT WAS ME!!! It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye lol... I couldn't keep it up which is why I said "No" every time.  

These young black women today, don't play those games when it comes to dating to marry - they show up warts and all.... and that's why it's difficult for them to make a covenant with a black man.  As @Cynique mentioned black men don't have to accept black women as they are -(paraphrasing) there are too many other women willing to play to the black man's personality weaknesses  and trust that is exactly what I was doing to - I was playing to the man's weakness not his strength... to get him to propose.  As I said though, I couldn't keep it up and weakness (both mine and his) is not something you want to build a relationship on.  


When I did get married, I had never put on act because I didn't think I wanted to marry my husband .. so he saw me for me...but marriage is  whole other story...  

Marriage is quite unnatural but is a great experiment of merging two personalities into one... especially if you're totally open and don't hide anything.  It gets really good when you actually see the other person...not their habits because that's not them but  see them as they are at the core.   That's when marriage is perfect and desirable. 

30 minutes ago, Troy said:

No everyone is invested in the stock market, in case you have not noticed.  The wealthy certainly benefited during the Obama years.  The increase in the wealth gap has been widely reported.

There is no bar of entry to the stock market... for the same amount of a mcdonald's big breakfast anyone can make a trade...in fact, black think tank are encouraging black people to diversify their investments - while home ownership is still the biggest asset to wealth building  it is not the only one.  President Obama's dodd-frank law  (Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act )made it safe for consumers to invest in the market while not getting taken advantage.. The House just voted to  repeal that law

3 minutes ago, Troy said:

I also know unless you get your information from 9 different sources you are being lied to.

That's why you go to the source... court records, government periodicals, legislative proposals, etc... all on-line and available

5 minutes ago, Troy said:

So I research the thing I have time to research like the nature of the web and how it impacts my ability to eat.

And we trying to build a business really appreciate this information... I use your information as almost gospel ... but I still continue to research it.  Your information is my starting point though.

7 minutes ago, Troy said:

For other things like climate change and the activities or 45 I'll reply most on journalist and the opinions of others, including yours.

Thank you, @Troy, I've been tempted to do a "side column" on government as it relates to black people.. It feels like no one cares though... they want opinions and I just want them to make their own decisions.  I think maybe sharing the possible benefits or harm might not be biased it - but rather a way for folks to use the laws, and executive orders... maybe then more of us see the benefits it might help us get interested in government

24 minutes ago, Troy said:

I have neither the time, inclination or the resources to do this, so I rely upon the media.

@Troy YOU CAN'T.  

You have to do your own research.   I understand not having the time but you have to make time to be informed. It really is that important.  Just like you take the time to  research social media and its effects on small business you have to make the time to research the legislative, executive and judicial activities going on in Washington, D.C. and the world... and then with this forum encourage others especially black people to do the same... 

28 minutes ago, Troy said:

Other smart people just as informed as you are, even more so will disagree.

Then they aren't informed... I have no opinion of President Obama, I have an evidence of his actions. 

23 minutes ago, Troy said:

I might be misunderstanding you, but you can clarify if I'm wrong by giving me examples or elaborating on what you mean.

@Troy, Maybe you didn't read my post  and part of the conversation that @Cynique is referring to.. - This thread, you've started, talks about black women believing they can't find a good black man.  ... I didn't think that was true but I did explain how I had to become the "ideal" to get those proposals ... Thank you.  My bestie, didn't sacrifice any of her personality to become "marriage material".. most black woman as @Cynique mentioned are no longer willing to sacrifice self just to get a proposal. They rather black men meet them where they are -- and deal with them from there. 

This post, as I've read, so far doesn't discuss post marriage proposal and engagement...right?

17 hours ago, Troy said:

Were you aware of the Obama crying incident before Del mentioned it?

Mel, clearly you have a blind spot as too. Del wrote, "he was called weak."  Perhaps you should do a little research yourself and try to understand why people are calling the man weak.

Amerca is hurting and the Black community is in dire straights. If you can not see why a huge portion of the country is not as big a fan of Obama then there is probably nothing I can do to help you understand.

@Troy , OMG I was literally out of the country for all Obama Administration - and it seems I've forgotten more of what you actually know about the Obama administration. of course I knew of President Obama, flicking away the tears over sandy hook massacre ...this is what I mean by blind spot.  How can you not watch the movement of a person who holds so much power.  As much as I hate 45* is president I don't miss anything he does... I pay attention to his cabinet picks what they hell they're involved in, bills that are up for vote in congress, budgets executives orders and sadly his dummass tweets, ... Where are you???? - I'm going to go out on a limb say I already know more about the Trump administration than you do.  


 Maybe it's because you are a championed of books  and shun broadcast  and social media but there's information that is presented in real time in print, that you can peruse to  make an INFORMED opinion.    hell sign up for government email - both houses send out email of what goes on in the day to do - every government department allows you to sign up for email of their day-to-day - we still live in an open government democracy it's hard not to have facts.    Thank goodness for@Cynique ! - now i understand why you wrote you weren't going to vote... you are not participating!!!!

None of this, including the "Weak" moniker many men have assigned to President Obama is lost on me... but I've already written here in this thread I don't waste my time "researching" opinions.  Opinions are irrelevant without facts or evidence.   

Obama is a self-proclaimed Feminist - get over it ...but it does not make him weak by definition.   AGAIN , where is your evidence regarding the black community being in dire straits.. I deal in facts, and the most impoverished ethnic group in america is still the white community by $10,000 per capita.  Obama Administration passed quite a few laws, enacted initiatives, propped up the stock market (I even made money) signed executive orders that would return the black community hit hard by the 2008 recession back to whole...during Obama Administration there were more black women employed than ever in history , more high school graduates and a robust admissions in colleges with pell grant money in the billions which cut down on student loans - or and I forgot under the obama administration  the us dept of education stopped pilling on the interest to money already borrowed. 45* s budget already took aim at reversing it. 

Yes, the black community got hit hard by the 2008 recession but it wasn't created by the Obama Administration however as I've linked to all over this conversation and other discussions here  how his administration helped the black community.

42 Million strong, the black community spends as much as the country of Australia; economically speaking we have the money to spend.  So, I'm unsure what you're referring to when you speak to "dire straits" .  Any think tank  report available today, has now taken the focus off of poverty and now focusing on wealth building in the black community. We're now out of the impoverished column to looking for ways to close in on the wealth gap.  

14 hours ago, Cynique said:

It seems so simple and obvious that if woman wants to snare a man she has to create a need for her by being the personification of what he wants.

@Cynique This statement is so funny too me .   One of my best friends , a life-long single-no children-petite-gorgeous-wealthy-professionally-successful-woman, refused to sacrifice her personality for any man.  She had a blooming love life but only dated a black man once,  and that's when she closing up the legal affairs on her parents estate.  She hired him to close up one of her homes in Philly...

... She'd later confess to me she was in an weakened state.  He had a daughter, she adored, the little girl's name was "Destiny," which held a special significance for her.  She would "study" the man's baby mama "...In fact, you would have thought she was Jane Goddall  the way she observed and reported on black men.  She observed and thought black women would have to be contortionists, to deal with black men.

It was funny to me at the time because her observation was my "normal".   I worked as a marketer in my professional life and it carried over to my persona;.  Sadly, if my experience serves as evidence - then I'd have to agree, black women would have to sacrifice self - and that too could be a reason they're salty.

When the woman, I spoke of above passed away, I changed a lot of things in my life and it included stopping the charade and contortionist act in my dating.. Needless to say my dating love life  changed drastically.   I wish I can say I care but I don't.   Today, I show up in all my relationships, life is too long to sacrifice or hide any part of me .   

3 hours ago, Delano said:

Thank you Troy Mel and Cynique.

Twin, @Delano, I had to give you props! You hit 2-3 of my soft spots! I'm a nerd, nerd-lover and I'm a dancing queen...I don't drink, do drugs or smoke but I will go clubbing to dance the night away.

When I worked as a flight attendant, during one Denver layover, I met up with a facebook friend and he took me to this  place called the "beauty bar "  OMG!!! The DJ played old school soul music from 9 - 2 am! I never left the floor.  The next day, I had a flight back to  O'Hare,  I told the Captain I had danced all night at this club. Don't you know when I deplaned, I was met for a drug test!!! Dude ratted me out but I was clean - and still floating that I had an opportunity to get my dance on.  

6 hours ago, Troy said:

I did not hear that about Obama. I'm not even going to bother looking it up. Let me know when he uses his celebrity, money, and remaining power to do something about it.

@Troy In  May 2017, the former president, Mr. Obama pledged and donated 2 MILLION  DOLLARS   "toward two Chicago programs that provide summer jobs and apprenticeships,"  

Mr. Obama "cited the city's violence and the need to "reach young people who might be at risk if they don't have something to do during the summers."

THAT IS PERSONAL CASH FROM THE OBAMAS !!! 

Maybe you should start researching and  "Stop talking"  when it relates to Barack Obama. Every time you refer to him you make it clear that you don't know of his accomplishments as president nor do you know of his activities now that he's left office. There's an obvious blind spot when it comes to him so maybe you should leave him out of your conversation.

Wait? @Troy How did I get into this one LOL! I was doing my best to stay out of this controversial topic.  

But since you called my name... the last year I was proposed to by a black man was 2013... and practically every year prior to that of my adult years.  Well, not while I was married. I was off the market then. But even before my divorce was final it was a white man who proposed that year.  

But I do know what this woman is talking about, unfortunately, and I've dated some real "good black man catches" ...

In fact, one GBM couldn't make it into town but put me on his guest list for one these exclusive club here in Atlanta. He wanted me to go and enjoy myself with everything on his account. It was all arranged I just couldn't see myself going on a date alone because I knew what type of life I was setting myself up for.  But that's the level he was operating on... . I've dated some trashy BM/WM/LM too. I married a white man but he was exactly what I needed in my life at the time.  I needed to get over my black baby daddy who was the love of my life but our affair was far too tumultuous for my maturity level.  Still, to this day, I would label him a good black man.  We were just star-crossed.  

 I've dated the UN since I was 16 years old and then my boyfriend was a bona fide Alabama white cracker and we were in love.   So maybe that's why the sisters are salty - they've only dated or waited for Black Knights and for me knights come in different shades of black - from light white to dark black.  

I stay away from married men but like @Cynique mentioned they are an easy pick. I learned a few years ago, I'm not as open as I thought I was. I like honesty and I was hedging (I think that's the correct term) into in a polyamorous relationship when I figured out, I don't like to share men. I'm not a jealous type though I'm a serial monogamist.

But chile puh-lease, don't get me started.   I love the inner intensity of black men - they smolder white hot internally,and are exciting! White men burn hot externally and Latin men are just fire (too much fire to be exact and us as a couple is dangerous liaison  because I have a bad temper when unleashed.) I came close to dating an Asian man but I can't remember why it didn't continue.   

I learned getting any of those dudes to propose means you practically must become a chameleon and morph into their ideal... I was good at that which is why I got so many proposals but from my experience black men were the most difficult to convert from single to married.  I did turn a few but they were the most difficult.   Maybe it's because black men are used to down home cooking and the other men aren’t. I made mashed potatoes, green beans, pork chops smothered in an onion gravy for the white guy (One I mentioned up there) he disappeared for about two-three weeks -I thought damn maybe I shouldn't have cooked for him.   When he resurfaced, it was with a proposal with conditions. I had to promise to give him one son.    I was like dude I have 3 daughters and there's no guarantee and I just can't take that chance.  So, we ended.  

Most of my relationships ended when it came to the prospect of having more children or me keeping up the charade.  There are very few men I know of any shade that are interested in marrying fat and out of shape women.  I know some women don't like to hear that but for most of men, aesthetics matter - men like looking at and waking up to pretty...just like women like looking at and waking up to gorgeous/handsome.  So, I don't know why any of us trip when it comes to looks.    

Anyway, what I've learned about black men is what most married women know. The BM I’ve dated don't want to be controlled or conquered they want to be won over. That's a dance within itself.   The fact that those men on the panel have been married multiple times speaks to this point.  Black Men want to be married (I learned that the hard way).  It's been my experience that  most men want to be married.   

So, not sure what this battle is going on between the sheets... and that woman's statistics don't match the U.S. census figures - so she may be talking about eligible single BM with a certain amount of wealth and education in comparison to women of equal stature. 

1 hour ago, Troy said:

We can poke holes in my little survey all day long.

@Troy Actually, I liked your little survey.  

I'm like my twin - I have an appreciation for numbers, data and stats.  

Further It was fascinating that the larger surveyed mirrored our sample... 

On 6/8/2017 at 7:22 AM, Troy said:

When Chamberlain famously said he shagged 20,000 women, no one ever asked if he satisfied that many--now THAT would have been impressive

Now that's the book I want to read! 

12 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Well wait a minute...
Don't forget about the 40% who DO think it's racist!

40% is a substantial number.
Trump is in office right NOW with less than 40% of the eligible voters actually voting for him.....so don't discount 40%.

The only time I don't discount large  percentages or numbers is when I'm selling something, looking at the scale, my debt ratio, bank account or when people are taking action.  

The rest of the time opinions are irrelevant.. I find people are woefully ignorant in large numbers - and agreement makes people unbelievably lazy.  

By the way, while it's true that less than 40 percent of ELIGIBLE voters went for trump ... He WON with than 45 percent of people who cast a ballot .  

You proved my point - paying attention to a percentage of  number of people who are inactive is a waste of time.

@Cynique  You know,  that is a good point!!

23 hours ago, Troy said:

was a grown man before the notion of satisfying a woman was something I even considered. It is like we are supposed to learn this stuff through osmosis.  Even worse some women, perhaps most, have no clue about their own bodies unable to offer and guidance leading to their own satisfaction.

I agree with you @Troy, I didn't know that so many women didn't know about their own bodies until I got to myspace.   And worse it seemed that a lot of women never learned from their moms.  Many seem to take their cues from men -     Anyway, that's how a lot of relationship experts started to thrive in the age of "social media"   I  used to belong to this facebook co-ed group and it would get super steamy and incredibly educational and liberating for both women and men.  Sometimes brothers would post pics of their woman's discharge and the women would tell the brothers what was really going on depending on the quality of the "biological waste".

Growing up in my family, the matriarchs, were very open about teaching us girl youngins' age-appropriate lessons about our bodies.  Sex was never a taboo subject.  It's a tradition that the women in my family continue. ..my poor daughters would sometime say TMI when I start in or certain topics... they would about die when my mother chimed in... she's the worst when it comes to vivid descriptions lol. 

As for men learning how to satisfy women - and vice versa, that's an integral part of intimacy... If you can't tell your man or woman what is satisfying - why are you two even together?  (Hypothetical question. I'm not targeting you or anyone)  

Th

24 minutes ago, Troy said:

I wrote what I hoped would happen.

Rounding error in favor of... the majority?  

Ok. We didn't learn much more  - between the five of us we came up with the nearly the same results. 

I think Cynique and I agreed it wasn't racist but  we differed on how flattering the pic was.  white folks chiming in provided another voice - but I didn't think we'd get a consensus .  

"Racism" is a social construct and unless it denies someone of rights, it becomes nuanced and has to be added to other acts to feel its effect.   

6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Mel

It doesn't. Or at least in my memory most who exhibited this behavior line the walls of society's jails and/or are food for the earth.

I agree that the reckless violence and aggression you see some young Black men exhibiting is selfdestructive however......

I notice that for the past 30 years or so conservative White women have been ENCOURAGING White men to be more masculine, aggressive, and take back their manhood.
They even push it among little boys with the Dr. Laura's of the world.

But I don't see Black females conservatives pushing the same thing.

I see to many pushing the slave narrative of,
"keep your mouth shut, head down, and do what you're told and you'll be successful" to a lot of Black boys.

So a lot of White conservative and Republican women are ENOURAGING masculinity among their boys, while a lot of Black conservative and even liberal women seem to be encouraging conformity among THEIR boys.

@Pioneer1 This an interesting view from your world.  

I live in a different world.  My world doesn't consist of  radio talk show hosts, conservatives vs-liberals, etc.. I live in a world or at least I surround myself with people who are balanced - focused knowledgeable, with many being polymaths or specialists in their fields. None (unless they're in the closet) ascribe to hyper-masculinity or  hyper-femininity  or even cling to those personality traits as a badge of honor.   In an effort to keep their world balanced they push  boundaries in an attempt to evolve.   I can't speak about those conservatives who are not changing with the times... while I used to report on them - I don't know any personally.  NOTE: I raised my girls in Wheeling, WV and then Naperville, IL and it doesn't get any whiter than that - and  I didn't know of any upper middle class white women to raise their boys to be hyper-masculine and agressive.  The proof of their efforts are in the millennial men that you see at the top of the food chain today.  Not a nary one of those young billionaires are hyper-masculine nor are their peers and counterparts.  

The photo is flattering pie chart adds up to 101% of 80 percent of women reporting  ...  w/ 29% of women agreeing the photo is flattering (varying degrees)  Here the majority disagrees (72 %)

The photo is subtlety racist pie chart adds up to 100% of 80 percent of women reporting... w/ 40% agreeing the photo is racist (varying degrees)   Here the majority disagrees (60%)

So while women may not like Ms. Davis look in this photo they don't think it's racist.   Whatever. 

My question is what did you, @Troy ,hope would happen? The majority opinion would win, those with the dissenting opinion  would then agree the photo was racist? and then what?   

For the record, my opinion remains unchanged. 

7 minutes ago, Delano said:

Kegel.

Women have found inserting and  using several muscle resistant devices such as yoni eggs and even this pelvic floor strengthener  that bears the "kegel" name  is more effective than squeezing air  .  It helps with continence too - "no wetting pants when you sneeze"

1 hour ago, Troy said:

the missionary position, does not seem optimal for the female's climax as she has less control

@Troy Control occurs with the use of vaginal muscles.  -Missionary is one of those positions when the vagina can grip the penis and bring it in further down the canal.  It's doable during doggie style but it takes a bit more focus.... Missionary is optimal for vaginal orgasm as well as clitoral - but then again so the scissor position...Actually as long the vaginal muscles are strong and in good working order - vaginal control to climax is not an issue... In fact for some men the walls can be strong that it can hurt  during her climax. 

20 hours ago, Cynique said:

This is why i chide Troy from time to time about his having such contempt for TV, There is much to be gained on the way to learning a little bit about a lot of things through watching television.  Nowadays if you are selective in your viewing there is still  a broad spectrum to be observed on television about the world and the life and times that we live in.  

Absolutely! I've learned a lot from television! And even today, often times writers give hints how to navigate unfamiliar worlds..I've always sucked at office politics so thank goodness my time in traditional corporate america was limited ...but I did learn how to navigate those office reindeeer games by watching shows such as The Good Wife and  even "The Black List"...

While I'm sure the players display hyper-misbehavior ... stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason ... and there's much to be learned from watching these characters interact with the plot.  Especially since those plots are taken from life.   Television is a tool and if you know how to use it, it will serve you well.  

 

20 hours ago, Cynique said:

I was particularly piqued in your remarks about Bugs Bunny which brought to mind  my oldest grandson who was in the wrong place at the wrong time and was shot down in a drive by killing at age 22.  He was very attracted to the street life and tried to take on the identity of homeboy from the hood something that required him to adopt an alter ego and speak Ebonics in order to impress who he wanted to be his peers.  Whenever he and i talked he always spoke the way he was raised to.  Anyway he was introduced to classical music via Bug Bunny cartoons when he was a little boy and came to like it as much as gangsta rap. i always think of him whenever i hear "Spring Song" by Mendelssohm.  

@Cynique, I'm so sorry for your loss and ours.  When I read this initially, I couldn't process it right away.   I got choked up.  Then while revisiting my photos for the National Museum of African American History and Culture... I started to cry.   We can go so many ways in this life... I don't know what's it like to be a black man in this society and for some black women, It may seem that I don't know what's it's like to be a "black woman"... but like you, we've experienced so many things and taken advantage of a lot of what life has to offer.   I was drawn to you for that very reason... Prior to reading your first hand accounts,  I thought I was just "lucky" ..Then I noticed the theme and pattern in your accounts that allowed me tor realize; it's not luck but choices and resourcefulness. 

I, like your grandson, love rap and classical music equally. I'm not  surprised your grandson was intrigued by the streets..around the same age or I was a little older,  I remember going to an award show with Big Daddy Kane and we went to this after party.  While we getting ready to go through the door; I heard this crack and thud... Kane had cold cocked this dude and literally knocked him to the ground.  Rush (Russell Simmons) who was already in the club came out and ushered us in quickly.  I've entertained in my home the now deceased Professor X...Lamumba Carson... Or drag raced against a man down Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn,  who I later found out was very connected to the streets, rap music and cyber crime.. but I dated him for several years...(even though I had a baby daughter to consider.  

All this to say, that's what an upbringing that exposes you to so many different worlds will do for you...It expands the mind in ways that average folks will never understand...

I can't speak for your grandson but I followed a similar path as he did and learned a lot. I can only wonder if it was a "Class" for him too.   I'm so sorry he's not here to share his stories.  It makes me even more committed to getting stuff down in print... because NOTHING and No day is promised to us - but every day we breath we have to experience as much as we can.  Thank you Cynique, thank you so much for sharing you, with us! <3

 

15 hours ago, Delano said:

Stupidity Brawn and hyper violence and sexuality. Thats keeping it real for some folks. How's that working for us?

BAM!!!

It doesn't.  Or at least in my memory most who exhibited this behavior line the walls of society's jails and/or are food for the earth. 

12 hours ago, Delano said:

Mel you have been discussing your convictions elsewhere

@Delano,  I've been discussing items related to my deeply held conviction, "Freedom".  I've never discussed "Freedom" in any forum because it's such a fluid concept. (non pun intended) .  But I defend "freedom" because anything that happens in nature shouldn't be interfered with or artificially restrained. 

12 hours ago, Cynique said:

How in the world do know about it??

@Cynique I go by the name "Medea Junkee' " on Instagram... LOL.   When it comes to media - there's not much I haven't consumed... I used to watch a lot of news during the week when I was just a kid. Walter Cronkite, Dan Rather, John Johnson, Ernie Anastos and Carol Martin (she was a black woman anchoring the 6 o'clock news and my inspiration)  were my media heroes. (gosh I'm such a nerd)

On the weekends, my parents allowed me to watch as much television as I wanted.

Growing up in New York, you could get your fill of the The Bowery Boys, Abbott and Costello shows and movies, Bob Hope/Bing Crosby buddy flicks on Sundays.    On Saturdays, you could watch cartoons all morning on the network channels  followed by a lot of old comedy. thrillers and horror movies on the independent broadcast channels such as WPIX, WOR and WNEW. "Creature Feature and Chiller theater come to mind.  

Our cartoons were filled with Western Civilization cultural references so I got introduced to classical music compositions early on thanks to Bugs Bunny.  I learned a bit about the south from Foghorn Leghorn Rooster who happened to be my dad's favorite (he was really into cartoons too)  I learned about ingenuity from Wile E Coyote and the Road Runner (another of my dad's favorites). I then learned a lot about grammar and usage , civics and safety via School House Rocks....

By the way, I learned later that a lot of our old cartoons were censored to cut out the racist references such as black-face, mammy references etc... (so again, there was a certain amount of sheltering when growing up in the North.  Speaking of which, do you know  there's no mention of race on our birth certificates .  I learned that those born in south are identified by race when they are born. But I digress

So yep - I got my old school knowledge of Abbott and Costello, 'n'em  because New York broadcast media kept the 40s, 50s, 60s alive well into the 90s . 

9 minutes ago, Delano said:

How can a divided people have a united front @Mel Hopkins

@Delano

LOL that's how this  topic took that tangential turn... Troy stated "that's another thing that divides us..." 

This is like the "Niagara Falls" Abbott & Costello joke  - slowly I turn... step by step and I say, "DIVIDE US", DIVIDE US???...

For the majority of women, we cannot be divided from those we give birth to.  Male infants who will later become men literally grow to humans in our bodies and come to this planet through us.  Men carry our mtDNA (mitochondrial DNA), the same molecule that contains the ATP ( adenosine triphosphate)  which is said to be the source of all energy for life... Yes, I'm being dramatic but it's for effect.  Division does not compute on a molecular level...So mentally it's a difficult concept to process.