Mel Hopkins

1 hour ago, Cynique said:

This black man/black woman dynamic is just so complicated it's hard to sort out. 

Exactly! For me it's not an individual thing'. Individually I've had a great relationships with some black men  They've supported me as if I were their little sister... So many black men have helped me with my career and many have taken me under their wings - when I've been too naive to understand ways to fight in the world.  But that's individual relationships and love.  @Troy, your mentoring and support of me in this digital world is priceless!  

Yet this doesn't happen as a unified front.

1 hour ago, Troy said:

This, however, is not for a lack of trying.  

@Troy, I know...actually, I feel it. 

This is why I'm glad you at least entertained the discussion.  The one thing about discussions  is really not to change someone's POV, it's about helping each other understand THERE IS ANOTHER POV... you and I are now aware there's another language other than our own. We may not be fluent it in but we know it exist. :thumbs up:

2 hours ago, Cynique said:

Douglass also divorced his black wife and married a white women, but his black wife was apparently okay with this because at some point all 3 of them lived together in the same house

@Cynique Oh snap!  I just can't LOL

@Cynique YES, to  ALL of what you've written !!! 

And especially this part

20 minutes ago, Cynique said:

Bill Maher takes the spotlight by inadvertantly referring to himself as a "house nigger" when the republican Senator from Nebraska he was interviewing, invited Maher to come work in the fields of his state.

This was the huge wake up call for me, considering his position sitting behind that desk - being paid obscene amounts of cash for poking fun at the system... If we look at the slave-wage industry for what it is he really is the House N-er...and the rest of poor working folks are out in the fields... for real.   

9 hours ago, Del said:

Why do we defend our convictions.

I feel ashamed that at times that I have "no" other convictions than "results" and "freedom".  And even results are relative to its environment.

@Delano, Yes, Alvin Ailey and Arthur Mitchell are inspiring and their support through the arts created avenues for talented black women that were previously closed to them.

These two used their male privilege to open up a venue for black women to shine in an area that was previously closed to them.  I didn't even realize they were gay - so that means not only did they fight for their rights quietly - they also fought to have black women "center stage".  

Thank you.

By the way, there's another black man in history that was a supporter of women's rights.  Frederick Douglass.   I gave him the side-eye though because he asked the suffragettes to stop fighting for their right to vote, to help black men get the vote. smh

3 hours ago, Troy said:

Hannah Johnson, mother of a Northern Black soldier, writing to President Abraham Lincoln about the Emancipation Proclamation, July 31, 1863

black mothers, if not all mothers want the best for their children.  So if all Hannah was or considered to be was a vessel and host to bear children - then this would be the highlight of her life. She could only hope her son would look at for her now that he was free and able to participate freely in society.  Unfortunately Hannah was not; and I don't think she would live to see herself being an agent of her own life either.

@Troy, I can't continue this discussion with you. I'm exhausted.  You are beyond tone deaf on why it is important to have black men champion the rights of black women.  You're in good company though because a lot of black men are too.. 

It is what it is. 

I'm just thankful President Obama wasn't.

@Troy and @Pioneer1

Rhetoric doesn't equal evidence. Your arguments are weak.

 I have deeply reflected on my behavior in this thread.  Sadly, it is one that I've repeated throughout my life, which is hold up black men in high esteem believing:

1 - they would know or at least try to understand the history of black women here in the United States; and/or 

(it's pitiful Troy, with all your knowledge that you even thought Lincoln had anything to do with helping black women.  Many black women already held the status of "free negro" in the US.  Any child born to a free negro (women) was free... If you referring to women in the south...black enslaved women were freed but without status in America... I could go on - but I've wasted enough time trying to educate you both on the status of black women...especially when you couldn't care less.  Which brings me to my second point. Neither of you

2 - care enough to find the facts about how black women are regulated to the bottom rung here in the U.S. by every culture and ethnicity (Now I see that includes black men.)  

For 8 years we had a black feminist (his words) in the white house - and President Obama's policies, mandates, initiatives helped black women inch up from the bottom.. now due to selfishness of black men - There's another man in the oval office who is so jealous of President Obama that he's made it his priority to undo all the good that President Obama did for us, black women.   45's latest thing is to repeal the birth control mandate that will affect 55 million women, will lose free coverage  and it will hit black women the hardest.   Which brings me to my third point

3 - they (BM) would protect us and our interests...

What is reality is, black women are alone again.  Black women fight and protect the lives of black men. While I won't - I do think black women do because we alone give birth to black men - but for black women to look for assistance from any black man who is not a "rare air brother" such as Obama, is naive. 

So yes, I have deeply reflected on my behavior here in this thread - and sadly, my biggest fear was realized.  Black men, as a whole, don't give a lick about black women.  That's probably why it's so easy for them to leave black women to fend for themselves.

As Cynique mentioned we, black women, do our best when we fight for ourselves. We have our best interest at heart.  

Out.

13 hours ago, Cynique said:

I'll let Mel speak for herself. 

@Cynique , I wouldn't have said it any better than you just did. Thank you.  

13 minutes ago, Cynique said:

erson who is the victim of racism will himself oppress homosexuals or women.  The victims each have their own axes to grind, and this dissipates their power.

The idea of freedom and justice for all is a lie perpetrated by a Capitalistic Republic masquerading as a Democracy and, aided and abetted by human nature, bias and prejudice will continue to prevail.  Alas, Utopia remains as mythical as Atlantis. 

@Cynique your response reads like "America, the review"... As I was reading your words you'd think I was in church - head bobbing up and down, and I'm saying "Yes, so true" at  every period. 

The last sentence was reminiscent of an item I read on Adam Smith's economics.   The author implied that the only way free market capitalism could really work is if no one was oppressed. So yes, definitely mythical but I have to "keep hope alive."

Ta-Nehisi Coates, who moved his family to Paris, says it's not much different than living in America meaning there are the same challenges w/ racism but not worse. 

After visiting more than 20 countries over the last 8 years - America is NOT the best place for black people; it's just familiar. I lived in Germany growing up went to school there and remember having a good life.  I like Italy but not every black woman has the same experience I've had there.  Canada, Peru and Argentina felt welcoming to me, especially Miraflores, Lima Peru and I spent a lot of time there. People seem better educated in Canada but their News Media doesn't dumb down reports either.  Argentina was just sexy but the political landscape is a bit in shambles - so its most likely inhospitable to foreigners now.

Anyway, Coates speaks early in the video about his experience.  Overall it's a good interview.  

As I mentioned in the other thread, feminism is needed because of gender oppression  exist and it has to be eradicated while simultaneously squashing other forms of oppression  

Coates masterfully articulates the need for support wherever oppression rears its head.
 

Intro 12:05 -  Outro: 12:45
"Racism is not the sole power vector at work in the United States of America.  Just like I was going to make a case with Senator Sanders, Class is not the sole power vector in the United States of America. ...It takes some sort of particular mindset to say.. all of them are lying. All of them are in conspiracy.  That is related directly to that other power vector of Sexism, that you know has been historically very very strong.  So I think that can't be ignored and the fact that somebody has a boot on your neck - the fact that you too are member of an oppressed class does not mean that you too can't in some way corroborate with the oppression of other people."

"

@Troy Since you have nothing to back up your argument, you've provided  no evidence, nothing to validate your claims and I have; I'll accept your final post as a concession. 

President Obama has done more black women than any other black man in history.  And it's about time we black women get a bit of help.

7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

You asked for ONE Black man who has helped Black women build their economic and social standing in this nation.

I actually gave you TWO.....Minister Farrakhan and Booker T. Washington.

@Pioneer1 OMG - I'm not getting through to you!  My question has not changed from the initial asking. 

Show your work... Show me how these two men help lift black women (not a few - the collective) up and out of the current socioeconomic position...

Even in your own citation it indicates many of the women were already working as teachers, Booker T - just put them to work so they could go out to the farms and teach under his banner.  How charitable of him.  lol

As Cynique mentioned, I'm not talking about one or two women, and definitely not the man's  followers  - I'm talking about Black women here in America!  And you know what I'm referring to because you asked me a question about it.  [see below]

President Obama didn't need to know me to help people who looked like me. I didn't even have to vote of him.  What he did by way of his policies meant every black women who desired to partake in the benefits could.  Now if you can share an example of a black man who did this for black women, collectively, that would answer my question. 

7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

They are still dependant on White people in the entertaiment industry to help make and distribute thier music; their White managers and agents to write their pay check and manage their money for them, and the White photographers for magazines like Time to get their image out to the public.

Aside:  That's not how  the entertainment or specifically the music industry works. 

Both these women are independent contractors and/or corporations. 

Beyonce, Inc. is a corporation and Beyonce also owns her label, Parkwood Entertainment that is contracted with and distributed by Sony.   This means Beyonce is the co-executive producer on  on some if not all of her music with Sony.   As an executive producer, this means she pays her musicians, songwriters band, et al. It is reported that she owns her master recordings for some if not all of her music.   Side: Note: Rihanna, reportedly purchased her music recording masters as well.  Owning your music recording masters mean anyone who wants to use your music has to license it through you, the owner.... If someone uses Lemonade (the album) without a license they will be cutting a check to Beyonce, for what ever amount she wants. Anyone uses her songs commercially such as when 50 Shades of Gray Film used "Dangerously in Love" they paid Beyonce not Sony because it is reportedBeyonce owns that master recording. 

As for their Managers/Agents, managers and agents get a percentage of the deals they make... Artist pay their managers - it's not the other way around.   And magazines pay photographers for their work... but photographers are dependent on magazine distributions.  

I haven't followed Viola Davis' business dealings that closely - but it's true reported she has net worth of  $12 million and if Forbes is correct, Beyoncé's wealth is put at $350 million as Forbes' "America's Richest Self-Made women" then these women aren't dependent on no one or no thing. In America that's the economic goal - to own yourself. These two own themselves.  

8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

How long have you felt this way about Black women having it so bad and erradicating oppression?

I ask because you said you were in the Republican Party and I'd think that would be the LAST place for you to be in given your strong views on freedom of choice and women's upliftment.

I've worked to eradicate oppression especially against black women since the age of consent - and before that I was learning about subjugation and oppression and how if effects mental development and achievement.  Therefore, we have to fight oppression on all fronts simultaneously or you'll have groups of people who simply can no longer fight and lose the will to live.

As for the Republican Party - they were not always overrun with the right wing nut-jobs that have taken over the party ...These stupid bedroom issues and radicalized christianity issues started creeping up in the last decade.  As I mentioned before,  I vote issues - and the platform of 41 (not so much 43) was admirable...When I was tapped to work with the Republicans around 2004, and appointed to office, the goal of our county republicans were to keep a balanced party and keep out the crazy racists.  I saw where I could make a difference.  Unfortunately, during Obama's administration the crazy wingnut racists got in -one is Governor  and now Illinois has a credit rating of near junk because he is willing to bankrupt the state.

1 hour ago, Troy said:

 

If I have my way Black folks will exact a modicum of agency and select who we think is influential.  Now obviously we will not agree on who should be uplifted and highlighted as someone whose ideas are important. But at least we would not be focused on a product, like Beyonce. Nor would we present the people we revered in their undies.

 

Can you image if Dr. Ava Muhammad or bell hooks were depicted in this manner that Beyonce or Viola Davis were?

@Troy "depicted" means these women didn't have a choice in how they appeared.  Since they did have a choice, however,  it wouldn't matter to me in the least.   Well actually it does - the fact that a woman is covered up from head to toe as if her body is something to hide - pisses me off. But I respect a woman's right to choose.

How these women choose to appear is their choice. Emphasis on CHOICE.  

Labeling Beyonce or any woman who has a built a strong viable business, a product, as opposed to a business woman or a producer strips that woman of her agency, it puts her in the category of a whore (and unless she's chosen to be a prostitute) that label is sexist and offensive to me as a woman.  Please point out to me where you've labeled a man a product?  How about Ava Muhammed? Is she a product too? " She's a woman lifting another man" So I guess she's worthy exaltation?  ok.

Now of course, you can call any woman anything you want - but from "my front porch"  woo - chile.   

But I digress.

In 2007, a single black women's net median wealth was $5/ $100 or Negative/ 0 (w/children)

in 2013, It was $500 for single black women w/ no children and no degree and for single black women w/college degree it was $5000 

If the black church was instrumental in any of this socioeconomic activity uptick for black women  or even in the decrease of teenage pregnancy -the numbers would have shown long before 2007

-  I've shown my work and backed it with evidence.

President Obama's policies &  cabinet were the best thing to happen to black women Full Stop   -

9 hours ago, Cynique said:

@Mel Hopkins This request from you: "If you know of any other black man - wait, I'll make it easy ANY MAN who has championed the rights of black women and actually helped us inch up higher  at last place - please share.  I really want to know because I might have missed his work.," remains unfulfilled, girlfriend.

@Cynique, I was hopeful, but I'm not surprised.

***

Best part of this conversation, is it shows we blame white people for what is apparently human pathological tendencies we all share.  

If anything, we should all be upset that straight white males exploit that behavior in us and use if to their advantage.   They remain at the top, the apex predator - and we help them stay there.

Case-in-point, Troy says that "feminism" should take a backseat to "racism"- it's unimportant to him; Cynique reminded us for the infighting between black and white suffragettes yesterday, and it continues in feminism today; civil rights leaders want gay rights to take a backseat - even though we know gay rights ARE at the heart of civil rights and on and on. 

"People moving out people moving in why just because of the color of the skin, run run run but you sho' can't hide"  Songwriters Barret Strong Norman Whitfiled Norrman J Whitfield" 

The truth is it's all oppression pure and simple and it must be eradicated simultaneously. But that won't happen because the majority want to secure their place on the totem pole.

Don't hate the player, hate the game. 

I've said it before. I don't play games. I hate games.  And while the idea of living  in a world where people are truly free and equal, scares me- that's the world I want to experience. 

There's no hierarchy in oppression. The "Oppression" game has run its course. It must be discontinued and eradicated.

3 hours ago, Troy said:

Mel, I know you are a fervent Obama supporter.  I supported Obama too.

@Troy Actually I'm not a fervent Obama supporter.. I did leave the republican party to  support his campaign for president and I voted for him twice - BUT  I  don't like that he supported many of Bush's policies. I believe in freedom.  Many of Mr. Obama's policies from the Bush administration - curtailed our freedom of movement.  In fact, many of Trump's so called war on terror - is a continuation of the Obama Administration policies.  So please don't get it twisted...

I just call it how it is revealed.  The focus is on black women right now.  And As President, as I outlined with evidence (not my personal observation or feelings) - Mr. Obama did more for black women, socially, economically and even physically if you count in health care, than has any other black man in history full stop. 

What's more he took the time to focus on black women needs even while doing the most for black men. 

I suggest you take a look at President Obama's record of executive orders, bills signed into legislation and his initiatives.  

I have. 

3 hours ago, Troy said:

As far as the impact of the male leadership of the Black church being "laughable," I don;t know what to write in reaction to that.  But I'll say this, while you may find it laughable, I assure you millions of other Black women do not

Again with the pastors smh.  I attend  Publix supermarket every week sometime twice a week and they in turn send me coupons  to use when I return. They send me recipes to make so I will come in buy more food.  It's a symbiotic relationship but make no mistake I do know Publix Supermarket is somewhat in control of my ability to sustain myself .  Publix is not  working to make it possible that I grow my own vegetables, house a dairy farm or cattle ranch.  They are not helping me in that way -they are working to keep me dependent and subservient. 

From my long time experience with the black church - it's the same relationship. There's no socioeconomic empowerment going on there either.  If there were the term "black male leadership" wouldn't be in use - it would simply be "church leadership" has empowered black women  to.[ fill in the blank]. The black church has empowered black people to...[to be right the hell where we are, in last place.]

BUT This says it all - "male leadership"...   LEADERS teach  and empower. 

What is the legacy of church black male leadership?
What has the black male leadership done for the collective socioeconomic status for black women?  You didn't answer the question.

3 hours ago, Troy said:

I also don't know if hooks would put feminism in front of racism as a priority, but if she did we would just be in disagreement. It does not make either of wrong or better than the other--just different.

Now you're just trolling me.

FROM HER WEBSITE :  bell hooks is an acclaimed intellectual, feminist theorist, cultural critic, artist, and writer. hooks has authored over three dozen books and has published works that span several genres, including cultural criticism, personal memoirs, poetry collections, and children's books. Her writings cover topics of gender, race, class, spirituality, teaching, and the significance of media in contemporary culture.    - gender is first on the list.

@Pioneer1  I appreciated that Louis Farrakhan is a knowledgeable man - with an estimated networth of $3 -to 5 million but what has he done for black woman to elevate their socioeconomic status in America?  What legislative proposals has he written or championed to raise the status of black women in America. 

Women who choose to follow Islam are under the auspices of that religion. They live their lives according to the Quran. It's their choice but it also strips them of a lot decision-making once they choose to follow Islam.  I'm not a follower so I can't speak to how this raises the profile of black women, however the results of the NOI and its effect on the status of Black Women is clear. Black women lose their agency once they choose to follow the tenets of any religion.  Religion is about obedience and the rules are in place.  * * *

While some women may fawn over men who pay attention to them - (heck I can even be one of those women at times) it doesn't stop me from looking for the results.  If I start with 100 shoes when you come into my life - and while we're together I only have 50 and even those are falling apart  and we don't have anything else to show for our union- yo' ass got to go.

When my daughter and I went to vote for Hillary in the last election, we joked and said, "well let  us go to polls to secure our place on the bottom." 
We were half-joking because while we (black women) are still last on the economic ladder, she had a secured her position as a contract analyst at new technology law firm ... and I was finally able to focus on building my communication/publishing business.  

The last 8 years had been beneficial my daughters and myself... we were left with 150 shoes.  so much so,  my daughters sent my mother and I on all expense paid vacation to Washington, DC.  to visit the National Museum of African American History and Culture... We're not the exception, we're the results of the Obama Administration.

So again I'll pose this If you know of any other black man - wait, I'll make it easy ANY MAN who has championed the rights of black women and actually helped us inch up higher  at last place - please share.  I really want to know because I might have missed his work.

3 hours ago, Troy said:

I don't mean something like Obama Care that helped everyone (i.e. mostly white folk).

Since there's more white people in America, it may have seemed to have benefited them but the break down in the link provided shows how Black Americans' health coverage was finally able to match the level of white America's health care coverage.  During ACA's initial open-enrollment about 3 million uninsured nonelderly, African-American adults gained health coverage. (there are only 42.6 million black people in America).  Also  Affordable Care Act actually helped more black men per capita who could never afford coverage than black women but the health challenges that are unique women (specifically black women) were covered under the preventative care mandate. 

For example, it's reported "black women got  breast cancer at a slower rate than white women" but we mostly die from if we get it; it is diagnosed too late..

"Obamacare reduced coverage disparities for a number of black women, allowing them to access routine health care treatment and check-ups with a primary care physician. The preventive care clause in the ACA has been life-changing for many black women: It gives them better access to early cancer screenings. Black women are twice as likely as white women to die of cervical cancer and twice as likely to be diagnosed in the later stages of breast cancer."

Also black children (which 72 - 67% live with their mother) also had affordable coverage.

Black women and children are considered a family -but black women also fall in the single category so if median wealth for black single women is $5. The median for wealth for white families is $141,000 while for black families its $11,000 if they have any savings at all. Wealth, therefore, is non existent for a single black woman with children.  Policies, such as ACA ,from the Obama Administration targeting African Americans pulled a lot of black women out of poverty and gave us a chance at putting the first brick in the foundation of our economic fortress. 
 

I know I already posted here in the forum what President Obama did for black women...If I find it, I edit this piece. 

From https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/4253-12-deadchristmas-nightchicago/#comment-19782 & https://melhopkins.com/2017/02/04/aalbc-discussion-not-your-mule/

"Black women (including single black mothers) are the most educated and employed according to the US Education and Labor Department 2015 statistics...[omit]

since 2008, births for unmarried black women have declined.  During that same period, there was an increase in advanced degrees conferred to black women, black women started more small businesses even when not receiving the same amount angel funding as their white counterparts; and they became the most employed yet underpaid of all ethnic groups except non-white hispanics.

Just a quick search of the strides black women made in the last 8 years revealed

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2016/10/14/progress-african-american-community-during-obama-administration

Health & Safety

Affordable Care Act 2014 Preventive Care Clause better access to early screenings

https://globalpolicysolutions.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/ACA-and-Racial-Disparities.pdf

“reduced coverage disparities for millions of black women allowing them access to routine health care treatment and check-ups with a primary care physician – as of January 1, 2017, 32 out 50 states had expanded Medicaid to include most low-income Americans. Health Care Coverage for dependent children up to age 26 ;

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/black-women-obamacare-repeal-aca_us_5894d564e4b09bd304bb43cd  https://globalpolicysolutions.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/ACA-and-Racial-Disparities.pdf

Teen pregnancy among African-American women is at an historic low. The birth rate per 1,000 African-American teen females has fallen from 60.4 in 2008, before President Obama entered office, to 34.9 in 2014.

Vocal critic of domestic violence/sexual assault – National Awareness Campaign “It’s on Us” The Reauthorization of the Violence against Women act in 2013

Wage Inequality and Economic Marginalization

https://www.inquiriesjournal.com/articles/992/womens-issues-in-the-obama-era-expanding-equality-and-social-opportunity-under-the-obama-administration

Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act in January 2009 (lengthen the statute of limitations for discriminatory pay claims

Paycheck fairness act in 2014 (failed to pass)

Recovery Act – increased minimum wage – protection of Temporary Assistant to Needy Families’ expansion of income tax credit with most single-headed households receiving a minimum of $1000 per tax return.

JumpStart Our Business Start-up (JOBS) Act

“resulted in a major shift in securities laws that meant the emancipation of capital for minority and women-owned businesses, who traditionally have struggled with gaining access to capital through traditional means. a start-up can publicly raise capital, participate in equity-based crowdfunding and use online tools to find investors, as well as raise up to $50 million from both non-accredited investors and accredited investors (those making at least $200,000 a year or have a million-dollar net-worth).

Education

$118 million in public-private fund investments to improve the Lives of Women and Girls of Color.  Summit focused on 5 issues areas where intervention can promote opportunities for success – Fostering School Success; Reducing unnecessary of exclusionary discipline, meeting the needs of vulnerable striving youth; inclusive STEM education; sustaining reduced rates for teen pregnancy and aiding in economic prosperity\

HBCU funding $4 Billion and Pell Grant Increased by 300 million to $824 million in 2014

High School Graduation rates climbed

Legal and Judicial

Lorretta Lynch, Attorney General, Justice Department First African-American Woman

Carla Haydn; Librarian of Congress, First African-American & Woman – Librarian of Congress

Nominated more than 300 judges – 19% confirmed judges are African-American; 62 lifetime appointments & appointments of 53 African-American District Court Judges including 26 African-American women. 

So why is it that for the last 8 years,  under the Obama's Administration black women have flourished -yet many say he did nothing to help black people."

Federal judicial appointment  https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/IN10234.pdf

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/president-obama-the-legacy/obama-s-legacy-judicial-appointments-numbers-n709306

http://www.scholarsstrategynetwork.org/brief/obamas-judicial-appointments-time-extraordinary-obstruction

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/obama-courts-judicial-legacy-226741[Update Ends]

But it went something like this that I used on my blog awhile back

According to the Women's Bureau at The Department of Labor 4 out 10 black families are headed by single mothers with children under 18. And while black women have the highest labor force participation rate with 6 out of 10 black women working or looking for work. Yet black women earn 20 percent less than white women and 40 percent less than white men.

While we’ve heard these numbers more than once including during President Obama’s epic speech to Howard University graduates (7 May 2016) it’s not all bad news. The Department of Labor officials report they’ve been working on policies that are aimed at mitigating the hardships black women in the labor force face.  Those policies include paid family leave, a hike in minimum wage, opportunities to close the wage gap in an effort that single black women can earn more to contribute to their retirement.    (check mark for that fact that it did happen.) Further, President Obama put an emphasis on enterpreneurial activites which many black women benefited. 

By 2015 - more than 1.5 million businesses were owned by Black women that generated over $44 billion in year revenues (2015)
 

Yes I made that bold statement about President Obama fighting on the behalf of black women, simply because there's evidence to back up the claim.  He filled the federal court benches with 26 black women, he filled his cabinet and WH staff with black women... He provided opportunities for black women to get education and we did in record numbers.  

Please name one black man who has done anything to help black women build their collective economic and social standing here in the U.S.

That line about  black male preachers is laughable!  Who attends church and tithes to keep the "Passa" in his Rolls Royce? BLACK WOMEN! Women attendance in black churches is almost 10% higher than men in historically black churches.  And that's just those surveyed... Go into a black church on Sunday and you do the math.  It's only right black male preachers give back to the group that pays them.  As far as emotional support - while that is very necessary, it doesn't provide economic empowerment to the very women who are carrying their communities on their back.  

It's more than many women fighting the oppression of racism - it's every black woman fighting oppression in their own way and most of the time alone. 

 @Troy, I believe there a lot of black men who feel the same way as you about gender oppression. I heard of a group of black preachers who voted for and support Trump for similar reasons. They are indifferent to female gender oppression.  Well, it's at the foundation of their beliefs.

Bell Hooks may be distracting even annoying by using Beyonce to raise her profile but she' s not divisive to me... she's just fighting oppression from her own front porch. But she definitely doesn't think feminism is subordinate to racism - she's fighting on both fronts. She's fighting because she realizes they're two sides of the same coin.   There's no hierarchy to oppression. 

5 hours ago, Troy said:

 It is another thing that has divided us. 

@Troy  we're not divided.  Black women are still holding down the fort.

Subjugation, sexism, gender and racial discrimination et al. are all included in the fight against racism because oppression is the result of the global patriarchal structure that gave rise to the zero-sum economics we practice.  It is the sole reason, according to historians, that the terms black vs. white entered the lexicon of the American economy. 

  "divide" is the tool of the oppressor and it seems some fall for it every time...

One would have to ask themselves, If black women are fighting a battle they believe is important and black men decide it isn't and walk away. That's not division - that's black men leaving black women to fight the battle.  Black men left the fort.  The one who stands their ground in a battle isn't the cause of division.

But let's back-track a bit, Black women "be staying on the front lines" for every cause that affects all blacks in America."  From the time of slavery in America to the present. 

For example, In Detroit, 1930, it was the Detroit Housewives League who made it possible for 70,000 jobs to open up for the black community.   By the way, they weren't really housewives - because they said they couldn't afford to be but the organization founded by Fannie Peck called it that...

“It was an attempt by African-American women to essentially try to expand the job market for all African Americans in Detroit by boosting the businesses, black-owned businesses, and pressuring white-owned businesses to hire African American workers,” Victoria Wolcott said. (in an interview with Michigan Radio talking about her book "Remaking Respectability: African-American Women in Interwar Detroit."  They came up with the slogan "Don't buy where you can't work" "In 1935 they set a huge packing warehouse on fire protesting against high prices, and later joined thousands of Chicago housewives in a march that shut down the city’s entire meat industry. "

Black Women continued to stay on the front lines...

The Civil Rights movement was started by black women until they had to take a back seat to black men who for some reason thought to move them out of position.   Many report that experiencing gender discrimination in the civil rights movement caused them to use their energy and expertise in the feminist movement in the 70s... However, that's not when Women's rights activism started here in America..

We have Isabella Baumfree's story that allows us to take a look back at the movement that was included in abolitionist's movement.  Those pioneers realized early on - that they couldn't rid the U.S. of slavery without working to "free" women too.  Not only did Isabella Baumfree (Sojourner Truth) free herself, give a speech " at the  Ohio Women's Rights Convention - she later began recruiting black men to fight in the civil war...

In the same year Beyonce' graced the cover of Time 100;  "In 2014, Truth was included in Smithsonian magazine's list of the "100 Most Significant Americans of All Time"

In the year Michael Brown was executed in the street black women started the Black Lives Matter" Movement against police brutality holding the law enforcement structure accountable...today we have police body cams, and even police officers being indicted for reckless behavior - some serve time some don't but this is the result of black women keeping their eye on racism - and black men's lives  in society while they themselves, as black women, hover around the bottom rung. 

The only black man (half-black) man to assist in the plight of black women was President Barack Obama and for 8 years he passed laws and initiatives that directly raised the economic profile of black women. But I digress.

We're still here doing what we've always have done. We're battling oppression.  Still all our marching and rallying for equity and against racism in America has benefited black men economically.   Black women are still at the bottom of the economic ladder while continuing to be the cornerstone of our communities and political landscape.  So while you may not see feminism as important - it is.  Especially if black women only have themselves to count on when it comes to fighting battles that directly affect their sovereignty.

Nope. There's no division. Any number divided by itself is one. 

Who's using whom is the question... or is it a collaboration on a level most black people aren't privy to... But first,  I'd say anyone who sells their labor is a slave.  The industrial economy wage system, according to some was built on the slave-master model. 

In this discussion, Janet Mock is closest to describing the reality of the use of this image.

...  One who uses their talent and image for gain is usually in a licensing agreement. You literally have to enter into a contract to use someone's image.  The person licensing the image sets the terms and compensation.  In this case, Beyonce licensed her image to benefit her product. 

Beyoncé Exclusive: Watch the Official Video for "Pretty Hurts"

TIME Video  Apr 24, 2014

Beyoncé graces the cover of this year's TIME 100 issue and she's made TIME.com the first official outlet to show her "Pretty Hurts" video. The latest clip from her fifth, self-titled studio album strives to explore the definition of pretty. Starting today, Beyoncé asks you to join the conversation. How do you define pretty? Upload a photo or video to Instagram tagged #WhatIsPretty that captures what the word means to you. Visit WhatIsPretty.com for additional details.

From Rollingstone

"Beyoncé is this year's Time 100 cover star and to celebrate the occasion, the news outlet has debuted the official video for "Pretty Hurts," the opening track to her surprise 2013 album, Beyoncé."   To help promote the video and its body-positive message, Beyoncé and Time are also asking fans to upload photos or videos to Instagram with the tag #WhatIsPretty. You can find out more details on the WhatIsPretty website as well. "

As I've mentioned before - NOTHING and I mean Nothing happens without Beyonce's  approval and her calculated moves.  She runs her empire and manages her brand.  So if she decided to appear on TIME magazine in a two-piece bikini w/ coverup to promote her (at the time, secret album) and first "single" Pretty Hurts... It's seems she got a two-fer from Time.  (An award while promoting her new release)

Time-Warner owned Time, Inc. and still owns HBO.  So I'm not surprised.  Beyonce always releases her newest projects through that media giant - (Time was sold in June 2014 - a little bit after her album release and cover) In February 2016 - Beyonce tapped Warner Bros Exec to run her parkwood entertainment label...so there must a powerful deal between the two entities -  One that her record label isn't in on. Now that's the real story!

As for the body conscious outfit on Time, Inc. cover. I wasn't surprised. I mean what would one expect her to wear?  She wears body conscious costumes during all her performances - it's her brand.  Thinking she would appear out of costume is like asking Bootsy Collins not to wear skintight pants and platforms or Sir Nose D'void of funk not to look like Pinocchio (or vice versa)

Beyonce dresses conservatively for interviews - but not magazine covers.   That would be a rare cover.

***

By the way, @Troy what does feminism mean to you? 

Feminism has several layers and means different things to different people. Some feminist are activists and do their best to remind men not to hog space. Some just want equal treatment/equal rights and equal pay.  For others such as me, Feminism means you don't get to usurp my agency. You don't get to tell me how I should feel or behave AND definitely not what to do with my body I'm responsible for my actions and I don't ask permission. I decide my value and worth not someone outside of me.  I tell you how much you'll pay me for what I offer. Sometimes I'll negotiate. Sometimes, I'll gift it but it's my choice. I'm the we stand together in a partnership or I walk alone type of feminist.

Beyonce represents that brand of feminism partly and she's also subscribes to womanism (which the old school definition was very protective of black men in addition to black woman's agency).   She reaches her publics by reminding them they are "unapologetically" women, in charge of their lives, firstly. She reminds them through her music they don't need permission to be great or even small. It's their choice and they should own it all.

I'm surprised this isn't clear to everyone. But I guess they aren't paying attention to Beyonce's actions, her artistry or even music selection. Just looking at her as if she's making  a spectacle of herself.

The best!  I got quite a chuckle out of this invention.   I carry a lot of stuff in my bag - and my family members always ask "can you fit anything else in that bag?"  After watching this video, I thought  if they asked me again, I'd say "Why yes, here's my desk"

@Troy, this inspiring post made me tear -up... #verkempt.   I spotted it while reading your newsletter.  I do my best to "press this" your newsletters but this morning I stopped to read to see what part I wanted to feature. I got to this story - and got so filled up.  @Delano, is so right - your story needs to be told -in a way that's uniquely you. You are our modern-day true Griot.

20 minutes ago, Cynique said:

Did a black man take the photos?  Is Myles Aldridge black or white? I'm confused. 

 According to this article, Yusef Williams, the celebrity hair stylist, was born and raised in Miami, FL , he looks African-American but I couldn't find ethnicity.  

Miles Aldridge, the fashion photographer, according to the internet, is British, He was born in London, England 

1 hour ago, Troy said:

What I've learned from this conversation is that perception is everything and we can not truly know the underlying motivations of someone else's perspectives.  Indeed the motivations for our own perceptions can even escape us.

Yep!  this is why the Nubians instructed students in the ancient School of Mysteries to  "Know ThySelf" ... It's the most important educational undertaking in life. 

4 minutes ago, Cynique said:

There is also a quantum physics principle that something can be in 2 places at the same time and - this has some implications about the illusions of the past, present, and the future. Maybe?.

Yes! That is exactly what I felt when I started typing...It was as if the information flowed to remind me of those dimensions we (you and I) wrote about in another thread.

On 5/23/2017 at 10:09 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Mel

So you were just being contrary then...because this is what I said about perceiving racism" - Sometimes I think there are several people occupying Pioneer1!

Whaaaa.....huh??

Mel that quote is over 4 years old and I don't even know where you go it or what context it was said in.
I briefly looked back in this thread but couldn't find it, which thread did it come from?
Maybe if I see it in context I can explain it.....or reject it.....because I have changed much of my thinking since that period of time.


BTW, your "twin" said:
"I am mostly interested in predicting the future and describing the past."

How does that work out when YOU don't seem to accept that there's a past OR a future?

@Pioneer1 That quote is from this  thread "Have you experienced mental telepathy"... In fact,most of  your comments in this thread are quite lucid and inspiring ..

As for my Twin, @Delano and I share some of the same language symbols. It's like we belong to a tribe where the dialect, subtleties and colloquialisms are understood.   I understood his reference points in the context of how he used "past", "future" in his divination.  I understood these references as research and communication tools.   I also wrote I use "past and future" for communication purposes but I don't believe they actually exist. Everything is in the "Now"

On 5/22/2017 at 8:54 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Did he KNOW the future, or did he PREDICT and PREPARE for it?

@Pioneer1 well yes he did know the "future" - and he predicted the time in 1 week accuracy and he prepared for it and prepared me for it too. But not in the way, that I could make sense of his babbling at the time - but when the time came his words made sense to me. My mom can also see the "future" and has altered outcomes  by speaking it aloud. 

OMG... I just realized something  by writing this lol - that's quantum mechanic principle! When you look at an atom you alter its behavior - when you claim the future you altered its behavior.  

Anyway - I don't believe in the future , past. I believe it's all happening in the now. 

On 5/24/2017 at 0:37 PM, Troy said:

 

I guess in a way it is kinda sad that the emotional support and appreciation for what I do comes from people like you, not the folks that I'm related to or see every day

This comment would be perfect for "Why Black Men Cheat".   I'm not saying you would @Troy  but I've heard a lot of men gravitate towards women who  praise their success and usually that woman' isn't the wife.  I've made that mistake one too many times before I noticed the pattern. Now I just keep my opinion to myself - even though cheerleading is my default status lol.

I think family see the ups and downs - so it's not as impressive to them as it would be an outsider.  But yes Troy, soldier on - eyes are watching and you are inspiration.