Cynique

@NubianFellowi feel that what you said, doesn't apply to what i said. The men i was talking about were the "peers" of black women in the field of journalism and elected offices - the ones who Trump has been attacking lately. I didn't say all black men or make any reference to political leanings. In regard to this, i said that black men do what is expedient in the mentioned cases; just as white men do. Neither have taken up for the their female colleagues, undoubtedly feeling that if these women can't take the heat, they should get out the kitchen. Fortunately black women have each other's backs. And, it is what it is. So, do you blame the media for how once black men make it in their field, a great deal of them marry white women? Are "they" responsible for that??? Every black person i know or encounter on social media says the same thing you and Troy say about it. Black people are not as unaware as you two think they are. Why don't you give them some credit for being able to navigate social media and take what they read with a grain of salt. I don't know any black person who doesn't view the media with a jaundiced eye. But we pick and choose what we find provocative or entertaining. You 2 must have a lot of dumb naive friends. i also find it a little ironic that you trust Snopes to be an Oracle of the truth. As for me not feelng protected by black men, as an old widow, i have 3 sons who look out for dey momma, and 2 daughters who don't look to men to shield them. The whole subject ain't something I dwell on.

@Troy @NubianFellowCome on, you can't by any stretch of the imagination, use the 3 regular male posters on this forum as a barometer of how black men treat black women! Once again, there's a fine line between respecting black women and defending them! What is currently disappointing black female onlookers is the timidity of the black male peers of female journalist and congresswomen who are being bullied and insulted by Donald Trump! Instead of stepping up, these black pros look to white men as their role models and just leave these women to fend for themselves in the public arena. This is, what it is. BTW, the conflict between black men and women dates back long before social media came on the scene. The media has nothing to do with why, in the present, there are more single black women than married ones. The ongoing clash that pits brothas and sistas against each other is all about the unfufilled expectations they have of each other and is in part a residue of slavery. Sadly, single young black women of today don't really look upon black guys as their heroes. @Mel Hopkins I didn't see your post before i posted mine. But i co-sign to everything you said.

@DelanoWhat is your opinion of what I just posted?

When have black people voted against their own self interest? They've been voting overwhelmingly Democratic ever since FDR came into office, during the Depression in 1933. Why? As much as Democrats leave to be desired, Republicans have never represented a better choice.

There's a fine line between supporting black women, and defending them. i think most black women are aware of and appreciate black men acknowledging their achievements and aiding their aspirations. i don't, however, think sistas feel as confident when it comes to black men defending them from the slings and arrows of the white powers that be. At that point black men's priority is to avoid jeopardizing their own status. Yes, black males will fight each other over disrespecting a black woman as the result of a FaceBook dispute. But the higher they are on the socio-economic scale, the less black men come to the rescue of the women, they so often pass over for white ones. Black woman have historically sacrificed and gone to bat for male leaders they believe in, and do this under any circumstances. They have also historically been on their own.

@Pioneer1Sooo, what category can a coward like you fit in?? And, yes, it was a sincere question. Have you looked in the mirror lately? Evading the issues just makes you come across worse; if that's possible.

@Pioneer1And what category do you fit into when it comes to black males defending black women? All you're good for is criticizing sistas for not presenting themselves the way you think they should, and babbling about black men's inadequacies. Have you looked into the mirror lately?? SMH.

Well, you are "notorious" for you spontaneous replies that are not in context. So I always have to make sure who and what you're referring to.

It has been established by people with more sense than you that Goldie wasn't clueless. (With Del, i never assume anything. Assuming is your MO.)

That's debatable. Nothing i "was talking about" had anything to do with Jupiter, Zeus, Mercury, Apollo, or any other mythological gods. i wouldv'e said their names had that been the case.

Oh, OK. Welcome to the club.

@DelWHO is your post directed to? And who is "SHE"? Inquiring minds want to know.

@Pioneer1 Since, as usual. you are basing your conclusions on anecdotal evidence, i will reply in kind. In allll of my years, up to the present, i have yet to be acquainted with a black female who has been traumatized by white women not wanting to form a bond of sisterhood with them! What i have witnessed is how sistas can take or leave white women, and their reaction to those Miss Anns who have fallen short, is better described as "contemptuous" or "indifference", but never traumatic. When it came to Hillary's loss, not one black woman i know or any of the many on social media reacted in any way other than to roll their eyes, shake their heads and label these traitors as ignorant, spiteful, or selfish. Sistas may have been disappointed by this defection but were certainly not traumatized! Furthermore, straight black women have always been luke warm about hooking up with the white Feminist movement, preferring to deal with chauvinistic black males in their own "castrating" way. How do you think black women got their reputation of being strong and angry? The idea of them sucking up to white women and seeking their approval is ridiculous. White women, themselves, are known to be wary of black women, regarding them as hostile. That tired ol, self-hate argument trotted out as proof that black women treasure white women because they "emulate" their appearance, is played out. More authentic is how black women have confidently imbued any "current look" with their own unique flair, and even created their own styles which white women adopt. This situation is more about self-love, than self hate. The subject of black women is one you need to avoid because it is a something you are clueless about. SMH.

Which gods do i have to choose from? Mythology is not reality. i put "G" in the lower case, because i don't regard the word god as a proper noun. Nor do I agree that Trump was put in office by some divine being. Believing this is the same rationale religious people come up with when looking for excuses to explain why "god" constantly lets bad things happen to good people. Man is his own worst enemy and has brought all of this bad stuff on himself.

Democrats aren't even ruthless in strategizing. They're so busy talking about the law, and the constitution and being aghast at Trump's boorishness. The Republicans follow Trump's lead. The put their own interests before the country and focus on winning at any cost. the Senate and his newly appointed Attorney General pose a real threat to Mueller's future. The black candidates in Florida and Georgia might've won had not their unscrupulous corrupt opponents just out-and-out cheated, and interfered with the voting process in so many different ways. The only hope lies in the hands of Republicans finding the integrity to stand up and say enough is enough. The spineless Democrats will be hard pressed to even come up with a strong candidate to run for president in 2020.

The way things stand, Trump is winning and he is gradually gaining the momentum and the advantage that will put him in good shape for 2020. All "the faithful" are talking about "god got this". Looks to me like "god" is on Trump's side. The prayers and thoughts of his supporters seem to be working. If Supreme Court justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg croaks, a very real possibility, Trumpism will become institutionalized and America as we know it will become a thing of the past. Babylon is upon us.

If you're fed up with the "Me, too" movement, i'm sick of the "when they go low, we go high approach". Especially when it comes to Trumpism. Bending over backwards in the hope of bringing the country together, doesn't work with 45's supporters. They look upon civility as an opportunity take advantage. I say fight fire with fire. Bring this MFer down!

@Troy Of course everyone would agree with your choice. Black people can only imagine how slavery was, and southern Jim Crowism officially ended with the passage of the Civil Rights act 50 years ago. In the present, the only thing blacks can relate to is what they experience. When they experience having their freedom compromised by racial discrimination, they resent being denied what they feel entitled to as citizens of a country which supposedly guarantees freedom, justice, and equality for all. Being expected to gratefully settle for whatever they get, doesn't set right with them, and they use whatever means necessary to protest this affront to their liberty. All of which leaves you overreacting to their overreacting...

@TroyAre we done yet? if i listened to you, i would think everybody but you is living in a bubble, all of us guilty of not being able to look through the transparency of the bubble and put things in perspective, while compartmentalizing our lives in order to diversify our experiences, from time to time allowing ourselves to let down our guards and indulge in whatever gratifies us! Unlike a killjoy like you whose peripheral vision is blocked and who expects every one else to lead a Spartan existence while you arrogantly put down everything that doesn't conform to your preferences, even as you wrestle with the pessimistic optimism that leaves you vacillating in a limbo fraught with ambivalence. And who knew, that during their 400 years of bondage all the slaves were apparently leading double lives, experiencing the perks of being free??? Or did i ever say that today we don't have freedom. I said: "freedom is not free", something you should have a clue about as much as you gripe about the restraints put on you by the powers that be. I appreciate your intellectualizing the subjects we've been discussing, alerting the great unwashed masses to the hidden dangers of this wicked world. Yet, instead of you utilizing the vast social media audience to get out the message you think they should hear, you scorn and leave these commoners to the ignorance of their bliss. You prefer to align yourself with the anonymous community that also rejects Twitter, FaceBook, The Media, etc, - the segment of America you seem convinced thinks the same as you do. That is your bubble. Indeed. the privatizing of the prison systems where inmates, the majority of whom are black, are used to perform slave labor for as little as 32 cents an hour, is a glaring example of how the more things change, the more they have become the same in post racial America, the other side of the coin Troy flips when reminding us of how far we have come.

Yes, i am making my statement based on the consensus of social media and its vast volume of input from black people , something you know nothing about since you don't go to these sites. Do you have some figures or studies to support your view - other than what some of your associates say? Are you serious?? YOU are the one so quick to down play racism and scoff at people who complain about it, implying that they should just overlook slights and be grateful they aren't being lynched. I empathize with people who become indignant about racial profiling and harassment and you chided me and Chevdove for supporting the condo guy who you thought was silly and should just skulk away and overlook the poor white woman who called the police on him. Then you turn around and say, "... relative to racism I feel it is a much bigger problem for Black folks today." You talk out of both sides of your mouth and, in the maze of your contradictions and anecdotes, attempt to portray me as somebody who is ignorant of racism. Puleeze. We are apparently not on the same wave length. And yours is definitely vacillating. This is where i am coming from Black people living under slavery didn't know an other life. Black folks living with racism today are the frustrated personification of "freedom not being free."

@Troy Pardon me if i don't apologize for describing as "pompous" the rhetoric you used in tracing the history of black oppression. To me, slavery is slavery, and racism is racism. One shackled the body, the other tethers the mind. One died, the other is alive and well, in all of its incarnations. Since you have set up the hapless Pioneer as the criteria of what not to do if you want your rebuttals to be credible, i find you guilty of being like him when you cherry-pick what you respond to, electing instead to go off on mansplaining tangents. You may or may not be right in your world view, but you are out of step with the black consensus when it comes to the impact of racism, not to mention its connection to the rich white men you speak of but who you appear to be oblivious about when it comes to their connection to the institutionalized racism that is a pillar of American society! It wasn't too long ago that you were lamenting about this country being a oligarchy whose trajectory did not bode well for the future. Now you're brimming with optimism about a future where blacks will have cast off the burden of their skin color and blend right in. White bigots in blue uniforms, regularly shoot black people over misdemeanors so it's understandable for blacks to be on the defensive when confronted with racial profiling which involves having the police called on them. But you have the GOOGLE logo for eye balls and are unable to see that this makes you just as touchy as those you criticize for resenting white interference. i agree that black people see racism behind every tree. But that's because it is, lurking there, just waiting to remind them that once a nigga, always a nigga.

@DelBe more specific about what I said, to refresh my memory. @Pioneer1You have no idea what you're talking about, as usual.

@Troy I am taking "race" out of the equation and you should too, since you still think that there is only one race, in spite of your recent acceptance of the usage of this word as a convenience. I, however, don't buy that you can have it both ways, and i submit that this kind of cancels out your claims, especially the one about "race" having nothing to do with skin-color. i find that curious, and i also have a problem with you deciding that talking about discrimination against brown people isn't relevant and doesn't belong in this conversation. We have stumbled into a semantic bind. I ill-advisedly used the word "racism" in my proposition, and this made my argument nebulous. What i was really endeavoring to dissect is tribalism, which is akin to xenophobia. In regard to that, i stand by what i gleaned from what i have read over the years, - just as you steadfastly believe in the plausibility of what you say. Which is to further say, that your arguments didn't bring me around to your side, any more than mine made any inroads into your opinionated predictions and assessments, none of which have any precedents to bolster your statements, - especially the pompous one about history telling us that your self-described definition of "racism" is faaaading away. Fading away? Or just taking a different, more insidious form? (And i guess there are a lot of dumb black folks who are more focused on the present.) I still think a universal skin color, not a change of heart is what will dissipate what we call "racism". But you, in all of your omniscience, can gaze into the future and take on the role of a seer. I don't really care, because I won't be around to witness the brave new world my progeny and their generations, will have to deal with. That's how the ball we call "earth" bounces.

I don't think Steve is really an active Trump supporter. He just never lived down accepting Trump's invitation to visit the white house to offer some input into the race problem. Steve has mentioned that his wife doesn't like Trump.

@Troy You keep assuming that "racism is exclusively about black and white, when it isn't. White Americans are currently biased against brown immigrants, as are some black people. Also, racism doesn't necessarily involve hate. It can be patronizing and paternalistic. And you need to familiarize yourself with some of the things that led to WWII like Germany's intense anti-semitism, and the undertones of the yellow Japanese attacking white America. "Racist" propaganda on all sides polluted the atmosphere during this war. Not to mention how blacks were subjected to racism in the segregated US Military for whom they were fighting! "Race" was factor during The Crusades, and the British colonization of India. And have you noticed what a factor race is playing in today's election??? Because you are a idealist, you want to believe that racism is misunderstood. You are in a near panic about climate control and social media, but think racism is a man-made nuisance that will juuuust faaade away. I think if it disappears, it will be because people will have evolved into everyone being the same shade. i didn't say people were "born hating folks of different complexions"; those are your words. I suggested that humans are predisposed to being suspicious of those who don't look like them and that this primitive defense mechanism spawned racism. And i can't believe you would pose the question about blacks of different complexions hating each other, as much as you talk about colorism - which is a cousin of racism, and is a caste system that still exists today. Since the concept of race is controversial, it follows that racism is a complex subject that is open to interpretation. Whatever. It's origin doesn't matter to victims of it.