Pioneer1

ProfD The music industry is owned by folks who would not consider themselves racists. Have you ever met or seen anybody holding positions of power who actually DID consider themselves a racist and wore that label proudly? The USA isn't in ruin despite having many rotten apples running around. Depends on where you to, lol. But the USA is generally a more stable country BECAUSE they have a way of dealing with the rotten apples. Not the best way...in my opinion....but a way. Many countries like Afghanistan and Mexico let THEIR rotten apples fall out the tree and roll around on the ground "freely" and you see the results...lol. The majority of prisoners are non-violent offenders. A better way of putting it is that they're in there FOR non-violent offense. Regardless of their temperament on the outside....once they get inside, they often do what they have to do to survive.

True. And usually much healthier than drug addiction.

ProfD I believe human beings literally feel good/bad or right/wrong in their actions towards and treatment of others. That sounds like empathy. As defined by agnosticism, I don't know. If you don't know, why did you choose the term "hardwired"? That implies Intelligent Design, in my opinion. Again, human beings have emotions i.e. feelings. Yes. However when it comes to having feelings based on how other people are treated....that usually involves empathy. In other words..... If somebody wins the lotto for $50 million and I'm happy for them -that's from empathy. Because unless the nigga was going to give ME some of it, it would make little logical sense for ME to be happy over HIM winning....lol. If you see somebody get hurt and you feel bad for them -again, that's empathy. You weren't the one who got hurt so there would be no logical reason for you to feel anything at all. But empathy makes it make sense. Other human beings based on how those actions make them feel. But THEY are usually guilty of the same behavior of manipulation and control on a lower level! We can't always determine what's good or bad or right or wrong on our "feelings" because our feelings are highly subjective to OUR beliefs and experiences at the time and based on our maturity. Most people including those who are poor and living on the streets MANIPULAT and take advantage of others like the tyrant and dictator, but on a smaller scale. The same man waging his finger at Trump for invading Venezuela and capturing Maduro has shot 3 people in his life, beats his girlfriend on a regular basis, slapped his mamma last Thanks Giving, and smokes that fake ass weed on the regular....lol. He obviously doesn't "feel bad" about these things; but he "feels bad" about Trump invading another country? Who or what gives a human being authority and/or agency over another human being? Power. Either raw or authorized.

You mean like sexual attraction, desire to take care of one's offspring, and empathy? Other than that, what other internal feelings of right and good do people "universally" feel? I understand, but....and I know this is another can I'm opening up however to get more clarity....when you say "the beginning" I presume you're talking about the beginning of humanity. There are only 2 basic options to choose from when we're talking about the "beginning" of humanity..... 1. We were Created or 2. We evolved You've made it clear that you're agnostic but again, for clarification.....how do you think humans "began"? Knowing this helps me understand what you mean by humans being "hardwired" to feel these things. Facts. But who's to say these are necessarily BAD things? Some Tyrants or Dictators would argue that some if not most people NEED to be manipulated and controlled for their OWN safety and well being, lest they self-destruct.

Funny thing is, a few years ago when I initially lost (quit) my job because I refused to take the shot; I was unemployed for a while but DIDN'T MIND spending that type of money on entertainment for myself and others in my family. Now...despite the fact that not only am I working but SEVERAL people in our household are now working too....I do. Maybe I looked at spending money on entertainment as a form of therapy at the time, lol.

ProfD Beyond agnosticism, as human beings, I believe we have an innate feeling of good/bad and right/wrong in how we treat each other. We both know that most of these feelings of good/bad and right/wrong vary from culture to culture, nation to nation, and really in most cases from one individual to the next. ONE person feels it's innately "right" to have more than one wife but homosexuality is disgusting and worthy of punishment. The next person from other culture or from the SAME culture but of a different religious upbringing may feel the exact opposite. However I tend to agree with you that most human beings DO have an innate feeling of right/wrong to a limited and relatively simple degree. Where do you think this innate feeling COMES from, though? Evolution? It doesn't have to be taught or codified. If this were the case, there would be no need for laws, statutes, or religious dogma and doctrine.

ProfD It takes a degree of skill to write and memorize lyrics that paint a picture even if it's dark and produce the accompanying music. No doubt the best Rappers tend to be EXTREMELY intelligent, even if they aren't the most educated and come from the streets. Nobody should underestimate or even doubt the genius of a Jay Z or Chuck D or Tupac or Ice Cube. "I don't know what you take me as Or underestimate the intelligence that Jay Z has. I went from....rags to riches, niggas. I ain't dumb" Black folks created rap music. We created rap music but White racists promoted Gangsta Rap The majority of people are adjusted well enough to function in society. The number of bad and rotten apples in society is small relative to population. They say it only takes ONE rotten apple to spoil the whole barrel...lol. Even a tiny minority of criminal minded and dysfunctional people are enough to throw the entire society into ruin. Let all of the 2 or 3 million people locked up in America's penitentiaries loose into the society of 400 million and see what happens....LOL. Hell, just look at what happens when ONE bad family moves on to the block!

We can't always go by that. I remember they showed Palestinians cheering and celebrating during 9/11 and even showed some AMERICANS dancing and cheering on rooftops in NYC as the towers fell. Even if those images are true, I doubt the majority feel ecstasy over the situation....lol.

ProfD There are billions of people on the planet who are non-religious and who do not abuse drugs. Drug use or not, I doubt that there are BILLIONS of people on this planet who are non-religious. I don't believe there is even a BILLION people on this planet who don't ascribe to a religion. I'm thinking about China and Russia as I make this statement also. Most of them don't PRACTICE their religions fundamentally and tend to be that religion in name only, but the vast majority DO belong to a religion. We have discussed my belief that people should treat each other as they wish to be treated. My idea of fair is that people do not bring hurt, harm or danger to each other in their dealings. Would that be "fair" if you were dealing with somebody who wronged or hurt someone you loved? In my opinion, you can't have fairness without JUSTICE. That can be dealt with at the individual level. Problem people can be punished. I hear (read...lol) what you're saying. However that COULD conflict with your idea of fairness, in some situations. Diplomacy is a form of soft power. It's not about being smarter. Being able to provide something the other party doesn't have can be powerful. Diplomacy is also a direct example of INTELLIGENCE (innate smartness). Outside of natural Charisma....you have to be pretty smart to know how to influence or manipulate others into cooperating with you and doing what you'd like them to. Fools and dumbasses generally aren't able to accomplish this....lol. Right or wrong? Just because someone can provide money, food, clothing, shelter, protection, etc., doesn't make them smarter than the recipient. Maybe more powerful. This is true in theory. Howevever unless those resources are inherited, consistently having enough money, food, clothing, shelter, and protection to not only sustain one's self but also provide this to others is a SIGN of high intelligence. Because....again, unless you inherited them....you wouldn't have these benefits if you weren't smart enough to acquire and maintain them. If they were so smart, Eazy might not be dead and Suge wouldn't be stretched out in the penitentiary. A couple points to consider......... 1. Death and incarceration can happen to very smart people. A whole lot of smart people died before 30 and a whole lot of smart people are in the Penitentiary. One individual isn't smarter than the entire government ran penal system...lol. Genetics, chance, fortune, as well as many other factors are often involved in people dying or being incarcerated. 2. Eazy E and Suge may not have been the smartest people in their circles but they were certainly SMARTER than most people in their circles or else people wouldn't have followed them and submitted themselves to their authority. Do you think somebody with Down's Syndrome could have walked up into the studio and taken charge over rappers? The fact is the US is the strongest super power on the planet. Venezuela is a mosquito in comparison. Right, and how did they get that way? One reason is having more smart people who helped to develop that power. The neighborhood bully isn't smarter than the folks being bullied. He's stronger until the victim gathers the strength and courage to fight back and win. Or a smarter person either bribes him to cut out his antics or influences other kids even STRONGER than him to find him and whoop his ass...lol. The story of David and Goliath is an illustrationof power, strength and courage. According to the Bible David was also backed by GOD to perform his feats. Don't leave that part out....lol.

...and despite all of that bullshit of "not caring" about what I say or type, I'm not surprised that you spend your Sunday mornings monitoring my conversations....lol. Very good observation! Thanks for your participation!

ProfD We have discussed freedom. I will always stand on the belief that people should be free to do whatever they desire as long as it does not bring hurt, harm or danger to others. I agree with you. However for the sake of this conversation....as an agnostic....why? The Tyrant or Slave Master would ask you..... Why should the people have that freedom, as opposed to being controlled by others who are smarter than them and probably have better use for them than they'd have for themselves? Countries aren't granted their sovereignty. It is either recognized or not. OK, thanks for the clarification. Again, I'm don't believe any country has a right to take over another country. That's just another aspect of human greed. I h8te greedy people especially bullies. It usually doesn't end well for them in the long run. I understand clearly what your position is. But again....as an agnostic....why do you take this position? Why do you hate greedy people or feel that greed is a vice? By what "moral authority"....for lack of a better term....do you base this feeling or conviction on? These are sincere questions btw....not part of some "set up".....lol. I'm often times curious about the mind of an agnostic or atheist and how they arrive at their conclusions and moral/ethical standards.

ProfD IMO, people listen to all types of music for the same reasons...entertainment and escapism. Perhaps the Reality that Black people are just as good and morally righteous as White people is something a lot of racist Whites wish to "escape", which is why they love listening to Gangsta Rap music which often paints a different narrative. ....one of Black intellectual inferiority and criminality. Nobody can enforce or define moral responsibilities. Religions and societies in general have been doing this for thousands of years....lol. Parents should have the biggest influence om young people. If not...something else is wrong. You're right on both counts: 1. Parents SHOULD have the biggest influence on young people (while they're still under the care of their parents) 2. If this isn't the case, something else is wrong And the facts are, in this society: 1. Parents DO NOT have the biggest influence over the youth. 2. Something IS wrong....lol. Both are in the entertainment bizness of selling stories Can't argue with you there, lol.

ProfD Obviously, I don't believe that. People are indoctrinated into religion. They are indoctrinated into a PARTICULAR religion, but I wonder if some people aren't just naturally inclined to be RELIGIOUS in nature. Meaning, they just need something or a set of rituals to believe in and practice to maintain their stability. I say this because there seems to be a correlation between the decrease in religion and the rise of substance abuse in most populations. You take away their religions and they feel the need to replace it with something. People wouldn't need hope if life was fair. What is your idea of "fair"? Not Neely Fuller Jr.'s idea....lol....but yours? In my opinion LIFE itself is fair, it's the people and conditions IN your life that often produce the problems. Human greed makes life harder for the masses. No doubt it often does..... However on the opposite end, laziness and the desire to try to get something for nothing also makes problems for people. Greed can be a powerful motivator. Greed influences some people to steal and cheat and take advantage of others. But greed also influences some people to work harder and smarter to secure all the resources they can accumulate. Power and control over people comes from the threat of violence and willingness to use it. As well as often times just being plain smarter and coming up with better ideas that many people recognize and are attracted to. Like Ice Cube said about Eazy E.... While Suge Knight used threats of violence to control people and maintain power, Eazy used charm and the "everybody can eat" mentality to gain influence over them. POTUS OJ isn't smarter than the Venezuelans. He's in a stronger position backed by the US military and other agencies. No, but the United States as a nation IS smarter and more technologically advanced than Venezuela and the Venezuelans. That's a fact. That's fine as long as the situation is mutually beneficial. Absolutely. I don't support abusing people. It happens...but I don't support it nor do I engage in it. I have African friends and associates that I have helped over the years with various things and over 90% of the exchanges were of mutual benefit. If they WERE one sided....me initially doing them a favor or them initially doing me a favor...they ALWAYS evolved into us helping eachother. By nature most moral and intelligent people don't want to abuse or negatively take advantage of others.

YES! This is a very very good subject for a very very good thread! Keep up the good work Cyn....uh.....aka Contrarian!

This reminds me of what they did to Manuel Noriega in Panama some years back, and Aristide over in Haiti as well. Didn't even give them the respect of being treated like a President. Just flew in....took over the country....and arrested their leaders as if they were common criminals on the street. ProfD I'll never be in favor of colonialism or imperialism. People should be free. "Free"???? I think you and I already discussed this "free" business....lol. I believe every country has a right to exist in its own sovereignty Rights are granted by governments. Unless you consider NATO a government...I don't know of any government on this planet powerful enough to grant any country that right. They are all subject to being taken over by a stronger nation if they aren't strong enough to fight back or no other nation steps in to protect them.