Pioneer1

Although it's ideal that we try to get along with our neighbors and co-workers in order to dwell and operate peaceably among them....... I don't think we as AfroAmericans should make the mistake in believing.....as too many often do...that we can CHANGE the beliefs of extremely racist Caucasians simply through dialog or by helping them to "understand" who we are. Dylan Roof was only 20 or 21 when he had enough hate in him to go to a church and coldly sit up among his victims having service and fellowship with them moments before opening fire and slaughtering 9 of them. You're dealing with a cold blooded HATRED that conversations and pleas for understanding simply won't cure. Neely Fuller Jr. said that the relationship between Blacks and Whites in America has historically revolved around the 3T's: Tacky, Tragic, and Terroristic. He said it doesn't get any better than TACKY.... that shaky, uneasy feeling of never quite being relaxed around eachother and having to constantly be careful about what you do or say around eachother. That's not the best way to live. Rather than living in fear and anxiety trying to live with people who don't like you, sometimes the best solution for us is to STAY AWAY from them and have our own communities where we can dwell among eachother in peace and prosperity.

Troy. man made constructs like race have no basis in genetics. It doesn' t matter if it's a "man made" construct or a NATURAL construct....if it's based on reality it's valid. Race is based on PHENOTYPE and a person's phenotype is determined by their genes. 　 　 Chev I personally use those terms for LACK of better terms to use in the English language. Some of the terms I use have dual meanings but I have to use them because I don't know of any other that is as specific and exact. For example..... A Jewish person could be one who CONVERTED and is now practicing Judaism, OR it could be someone BORN ot a Jewish mother but not only doesn't practice but is actually an atheist. Thus it has both religious AND cultural meanings. Likewise, the word "African" has a DUAL meaning for me. 1. It's the word used for someone who was born in a country of that continent despite their race. 2. It has now become the word used for someone of what I used to call the "Black" race regardless as to where they were born. I stopped using the word "Black" so much because it's not very accurate and correct to use. Few of us are actually "Black" in skin color but most of us are brown, and many San and Koi people who belong to our race aren't Black or even dark but a light tannish.....still of our race. The word "Hamite" is a biblically based term that assumes that the writers of the Old Testament and others who claimed that Blacks came from Ham were correct. Kemet is valid, but it only describes those from ancient Egypt and I'm not convinced that all of our people came from Kemet. So I chose the term "African describe all members of our race no matter where we are found. As far as the Germanic people's of the past..... I realize that the original people WHO LIVED IN THE LAND now called Germany were dark skinned, but that was many many thousands of years ago. I believe when we get into 3000 years ago the Caucasians had pretty much moved into that area by then and either driven the original brown skinned people underground, driven them off, or killed them. But if you don't like the term "race" you can also go with "species" or even "breed" if you will....lol. As long as it's understood that human beings with different phenotypes are indeed different from eachother and those differences should be recognized and appreciated instead of pretending that they don't exist. When you pretend that there is no difference between you and White racists, you set yourself up to be harmed and exploited like many of our people in Latin America and in the Middle East. In both of those regions you have millions of people of African descent who are being discriminated against by their lighter skinned countrymen and live in squalor but because they don't see themselves as "Black" but may see themselves as Puerto Rican or Iraqi or Arabian.....they can't understand why they are living in the condition they're in and refuse to call it racism. Like both you and I have said, it doesn't matter whether WE believe race exists or not...as long as White people in charge believe it then we have to accept this as a fact and deal with it.

Troy If you were 40 years younger and single, I absolutely would be sweating you for your number 😍 I have nothing but the highest regard for you. Damn.....lol. Come on man, why she gotta be 40 years younger before you tried to get up on it ????? Why not just 30 or 20 years younger??? That would STILL put her at around 50 or 60! Lol..... I don't know about where YOU live but I've been seeing some BAD ass 60+ year old women walking around in sun-dresses and sandals in the Michigan heat this summer!

Troy Are you saying that constructs are NOT reality? Yes race is a way to categorize people, but it is not like sex which is actually genetically determined. Race is just as genetically based as sex. Just like a penis, testicles, and ovaries are physical characteristics of sex......dark skin, kinky hair, blue eyes, slant eyes and other characteristics that are used to determine a person's race are based on their GENES. Infact, race is MORE genetic and reliable than sex because you never know what sex a baby may turn out but a couple pretty much can count on the race of a baby being the same as theirs.....lol. And you're correct that the way we USE race changes over time, but RACE ITSELF doesn't. The Nubians are dark skinned, dark eyed, and kinky haired 3000 years ago and they STILL are today. The Germanic people were white skinned, blue eyed, and straight blonde haired 3000 years ago and they STILL are today. It's not the reality of RACE that keeps changing, it's our understanding of it.

were the comments being tossed around about the lifestyle of this country not being an environment that is compatible with the natural instincts of African Americans in regard to their sexuality and their affinity for polygamy. For the umpteenth time, all i am saying is that adult black people are free to indulge their desires in these areas as long as they don't rape adult females or commit statutory rape against minors under the age of 17. Black people are NOT free to engage in whatever type of sexuality they wish in this nation be it legal OR illegal. The behavior you're seeing many AfroAmericans exhibit that you may be MISTAKING for freedom are NOT expressions of freedom, but expressions of PERVERSION. Because they are living in a restrictive oppressive environment that does NOT alllow them to freely practice sexuality the way would naturally and are forced to operate inside the White social framework.....they have historically came up with alternative, sneaky, and often perverse ways to "get around" the rules. Thus instead of a man openly having several wives like in Africa. In America he may just have one wife and a bunch of girlfriends. But what makes it perverse is in Africa he would be forced to support all of his wives and his children by them, but in America he has little obligation to do so except if the courts get involved and try to force him to. Troy In the area I live in now, filled with gated communities and chain stores, has it issues too, but the trade offs are worth it at this stage of my life. I don't have to step over the homeless people as I got about my daily business or walk with my head down so I dont step in dog do-do. The likelihood of my being a victim of a crime is virtually nil. Some behavior I would regularly witness in NYC simply not exhibited here. No once have I heard the word nigger uttered in public, not have a seen a mother curse a child out at them them that they are a piece of shit just like their dad. I have however witness bible study and prayer groups meet in Starbucks and the B&N Man....where do YOU live? Lol, Mayberry from the Andy Griffith Show???

I have to wonder..... In some ways, altough the conditions that Bumpy's generation had to grow up in and endure were much harsher....it seems to have produced stronger men who were more independent and even more productive. When Black men HAD to rely on themselves, the streets, and their own wits to get them by and get the finer things in life....it forced them to be more creative and developed that hustler spirit. Now those who aren't smart enough to advanced through and already set template called the educational.......because of the pretty much non-existent street life that so many Black men thrived off of....are offered no other alternatives or opportunities except for jail or death.

Lol, oh reeeaaly????? He "takes you places" huh???? Oh..... I bet he does.

Cynique 　 Who is to say what's natural? Natural compared to what? It's natural to try and survive. As nature takes its course, however things sort themselves out is natural. Randomness is not unnatural. I continue to embrace the "survival of the fittest" principle and the "it is, what it is" philosophy. The state of the world today is not abnormal; it's is simply a situation called "Life". Well to start with, nature is that which you don't have to be TRAINED into doing or PUNISHISHED into not doing. Smoking cigarettes isn't natural, you have FORCE yourself to do it and fight the coughing, nasty taste, and cave in to peer pressure in order to go it. Eating an orange or banana on the other hand is natural and tastes good and you don't have to be tricked or trained into doing it. It's as NATURAL for a man to seek multiple mates to copulate with and spread his seed as it is for you to seek multiple sources of food and store them up for a famine or drought. Most men had to be TRAINED through religion to be monogamous and PUNISHED for not being monogamous, which means it didn't come natural for them. What's stopping him from being the head of a household that consists of more than one mate willing to accommodate his desire for variety? Social pressure....on both me AND my partners. You....like most....may sit up and CLAIM that we all have the right to do and live as we please but if I were working with you on a job and told you I had 4 wives you'd try to get me fired or at best try to turn every other co-worker against me. The female relatives of all the women involved with the man of a polyamorous relationship would badger the women and degrade them for being in that relationship calling them stupid, brainwashed, exploited, ect.....and in many cases would even call law enforcement to find out what can be done legally to break up the relationship and punish that man! Face it, the only time you'll accept polyamory is when WHITE MEN tell you to accept it. .....like they did homosexuality. 　 in response to you and Pioneer insisting that this society with its white western values is a puritanical one that represses people's natural instincts. Not only does it represses people's natural instincts, it CORRUPTS them and WARPS them. Again, the taste of cigarettes isn't one you naturally like....it's an acquired taste that people often have to be TRICKED into accepting. So they come up with menthols to trick your brain into thinking you're tasting peppermint candy. Anybody over 17 is free to engage in sex with anyone they choose, as long as it is mutually agreed upon. They just have to deal with whatever personal consequences ensue from this. But it is not something they are legally forbidden to do. And it's also not against the law for any single female to have a baby. Abortion is more contested than this. When statutory rape enters the picture then the law steps in. This is how it goes in this white western country You're focused on the LEGAL rules but you're also forgetting the SOCIAL rules that are often even stronger and too often prevents people from acting on what is natural. Although it's LEGAL, do you think a man can see a 30 or 40 year old woman walking down the street with her boyfriend and proposition her for sex without consequences? And even though it's legal for him to do so, if there was a fight and the police got involved they would probably accuse the man and not the boyfriend of starting the fight simply by doing that which is natural and legal but still SOCIALLY unacceptable. 　 "Free" means free both legally and socially. 　 　 　 Troy Again, I don't know what is natural, but I suspect that multiple partners, throughout life may be more natural for men than life long monogamy. Of course some brothers can do this without a problem, shoot some Brothers don't ever have to have sex. Exactly, and I've shared the same observations. You can go from one end of the spectrum clear to the other. From the polygamist....to the man who doesn't want sex at all....clear on over to the man who not only likes other men but likes MANY other men, lol. Nothing applies to everyone 100%. But what we're talking about are the MAJORITY of men and what applies to them. I've known very few men who ONLY wanted one woman their entire life. 　 　

Troy Like the more famous Michelle said, when Pioneer goes low you go high What Michelle forgot to tell you is if you go too high your'e liable to get socked in the nuts....lol. Chev The subject of 'race' is very difficult for me to understand. No matter how hard I try, I don't understand the signficance of the term 'racial construct' or race as it is defined today as oppose to long ago, when this term apparently did not exist. And, basing 'race' on phenotype, well, that is confusing. To add to this point too, America's system of basing 'race' doesn't help at all! Well let me see if I can help you make sense of it....... RACE is actually real. Yes it's a construct....but it's a real one that is based on genetic reality. Race is simply a way to catagorize people.....just like sex is. Just like you have male and female sexes.....you have African, Native American, Caucasian, ect.. races. The reason why it seems so confusing is because White Supremacists keep CHANGING the names and definitions of the races over and over again to keep you confused. They change it over time and they change it from one nation to the next instead of agreeing on one set definition. This is done PURPOSELY to keep you confused. The same person who is consided "Black" in America may be considered simply a "dark skinned Puerto Rican" in Puerto Rico. You have very dark skinned Ethiopians and Indians who come to America but are classified as "White" because of their national origins despite their looks. This is all done to confuse people about race. But it doesn't mean that the differences don't indeed exist.

It's not much fun to you or I, but you'd be surprised at how much fun many so-called grown men would have just living off of someone else and allowing them to take on all the responsibilities. It's almost an epidemic on many urban communities where men in their 30s and 40s and 50s desire nothing more than a "sugar mamma" willing to take them in and feed them, cloth them, and let them lay around drinking and smoking weed all day. These men are USED to being dependent on others and have very little spirit or concept of IN-dependence. But when you talk of MUTUAL dependency, I think this makes for the best relationships. I've noticed that two independent people rarely for meaningful relationships and if they do they tend not to last long. Usually in a relationship one is has to depend on the other and the other knows it and takes advantage of it. But when you have TWO (or more) people depending on eachother and needing eachother it makes for a more fair relationship where one is careful NOT to exploit or mistreat the others.

Troy If EVERY player in the NFL both Black and White as well as "others" were to all fall down and start wallowing on the ground and barking like dogs in protest to the national anthem....again...exactly WHAT would it change? Do you think this will cause the police to be less aggressive or will change the attitude of White Supremists? More numbers are meaningless if the goal is obscure or non-existent. Trump said that half of the players out there protesting don't even know what the hell they're protest for or about. For the first time I'm in complete agreement with him, lol.

Cynique I claim to have a 72 year old boy toy because i like to poke fun at myself. Something your ego would never allow you to do. So in other words you LIED us to and claimed sexual escapades and fantasies that you knew weren't true. Well, I knew it all along. I didn't say anything because I wanted to see how far you were planning on going with that foolish fantasy. If you just wanted a "boy toy" to poke yourself for fun, you didn't have to make up a story about one.....you could have just went to your closest Walmart and BOUGHT one, lol.

Troy Is it that we CAN'T collect it ourselves? Or are we too LAZY or have OTHER PRIORITIES that prevent us from actually gathering the unfiltered facts for ourselves instead of relying faithfully on information White people (or those trained, hired, and controled by White people) give us? It's good that we can read between the lines and call bullshit when we hear/see it, but is that enough? Just like a person who's being slowly poisoned and sickened must first stop taking the poison...but don't stop there....they must now take in the proper nutrients to heal themselves- Now that we realize that we are being lied to and can't trust many of the sources we're getting our information from; the next step is to actually GATHER THE TRUTH about what's going on in the world. I believe like you said that we should have our own news platforms, but the journalists, editors, and news achnors who gather and present us with the news can't be educated through the conventional ways of typical Western journalism. We need to train and educated our professionals OUR way.

The media has us focusing on the wrong topics. The ENTIRE NATION is a "Charlottesville" because White Supremacy has invaded region of it. We can talk about the woman being hit by a car driven by a racist in Virginia last year, but what about the girl who was slashed by a knife attack from a racist in California THIS year? California is just as racist and rightwing as anywhere in the South and don't let anyone tell you different. The only difference is in California not only do you have to deal with WHITE racism, but also LATINO racism and ASIAN racism.

Lol, what's up with that singer "Billy Holiday Jr"?? We got women calling themselves junior now a days? I'm not sure what to think of characters like Bumpy. On one hand I have respect for him as a man being able to come up from down South with nothing but his ambition and build a mega empire in the underground world. On the other hand, I have to wonder about all of the people....mostly Black...that he poisioned, killed, and otherwise damaged and destroyed. Perhaps if he came up in a better system his brains, ambition, and talent would have taken him just as high on the positive end of the spectrum. Perhaps he could have build a casino empire or a hotel resort making even MORE money without the bloodshed and trauma.

Thank you And speaking of rules that civilize us........... From what I've observed of history, there is "more than one way to skin a cat" so to speak. Meaning....if we start off from a foundation of savagery and work our way toward civilization....there are MULTIPLE and perhaps near ENDLESS types of civilizations we can't establish that are far different from the one we're currently in. The Egyptians, ancient Indians, and Mayans all had huge long lasting civilizations that were vastly different than ours with totally different marriage and sexual systems. So who's to say THIS one is the most civilized and furthest away from animalistic tendencies?

When you said you used to like Jesse.... Lol..are you talking about Jesse Lee Peterson or Jesse Jackson? Troy I KNEW you were going to bring up the "race" topic as an example. You just refuse to let that go.

Cynique They are not futile. His efforts have changed the dialogue about what the American flag represents and have also brought change in regard to giving NFL players the option of staying in the locker room when the anthem is played. Oh, well if his purpose was to simply change the DIALOGUE then perhaps he indeed WAS successful! But I would think the purpose was (or atleast should be) to change the BEHAVIOR of the police officers involved, and actually STOP the killing. Clearly his "protest" hasn't done that or even made a dent in it.

Perhaps we may need to reconsider our definitions of "abuse". Abuse is literally AB-USE or misusing someone from their original intended purpose. Perhaps one of the problems we have in our community is attempting to take on Caucasian values and standards, we are calling that which is natural for human men to behave..."abuse".....and treating it as such when it's actually normal harmonious behavior. Now, raping and assaulting people outside of personal defense is CLEARLY abuse. But we should understand that most NORMAL men are very sexual as well as mildly aggressive that nature has designed it this way. Society may try to "breed" (sorry Troy....lol) this out of men in the name of "civilizing" them, but nature put hyper-sexuality and aggression in men for a good reason. So we can't look at all men who want sex and act in a dominant manner as "abusive" simply because modern society has taught this. For example, for years when I go out with women I make it a point to tell them what they CAN'T wear when they're out with me! I don't physically force them into what to wear, but I make it clear that if they wear the wrong thing....they ain't going anywhere we ME. They'll have to go by themselves or find someone else. Now some people may call that controlling, or even abusive.....but I still do it because I feel as a man who is incharge of defending this woman if she gets in trouble that I BETTER have some say-so over what she's wearing so as not to invite trouble. 　 Chev You brought up a good point about the "dumb blonde" scenario. The thing I've noticed about Whie women is that most of them seem to have NO PROBLEM playing the game to get what they want out of a man, even it it means debasing and degrading themselves to inflate the ego of their mate. They'll play stupid, helpless, confused, ect....because they know that this will make White men feel stronger and smarter and just better about themselves. I'd be lying if I didn't say that in some ways this IS a little more attractive than for a woman to go the opposite way and act more hostile, defensive, and independant than she really is which tends to make the men in her life feel less needed and in many cases stupid and worthless. It may not seem fair that a stupid and weak woman would be seen as more attractive than a strong confident one, but opposites attract and if a man's nature is strength then he seeks the OPPOSITE of that to compliment himself. Del There are women that feel pressure to give a guy some of her takes her out for dinner. Then other women will go to dinner with a man they don't like for a free meal. There are women that will split the bill. And some that will pay either because they invited you or that's their thing. I used to hang out in New York night life. And I saw a few kept men and women both straight and homosexual. It appeared that the younger person was generally better looking more fit. That's a projection because it could be the younger person could have the money. I felt as though . you both got what the wanted or needed. And you know what? I don't have a problem with a woman who DOES go out and have sex with a man for a free meal OR a man who sleeps with a woman he doesn't find attractive simply for a place to stay. As long as they have the freedom to do so or resist, let people do what they do as long as they are getting what they want and/or need.

Cynique Making up stuff does not do not constitute humor because it contains no element of the truth. Look! I'm not the one who came on this site bragging about having a 72 (at the time but probably 73 now) year old hot handsome stud-muffin' who could rock my world.....YOU ARE, lol. So what do you mean "no element of truth"???? If you don't have one why did you CLAIM to have one????

　 Troy I think I know Florida better than more Floridians. I been to every corner of the state from Panama City to Dry Tortugus. I've lived in Tampa and West Palm Beach I recruited students at FAMU and done volunteer work in Okeechobee. I've swam in every major beach, visited most of the Black-owned bookstores, vacation in Orlando, Miami, Jacksonville, Sanibel and Captiva, I've ridden an airboat in the everglades, fished on both coasts, etc etc. But this is after more than 30 years of experience. I can learn about all of this and more in a few good books in a san of a few months. Lol, you sound like one HECK of a brother! Bottom line, you can not know a place simple by visiting. You really need to do both. If you visit a place and believe you know it without reading about it, I think you will simply be under-informed. @Pioneer1 you make a good point regarding eyewitness testimony. I think we put too much weight our personal experiences in terms of what we believe to be true. We simply can't experience more than we can read in a book. Thank you. Eyewitness testimony is notorious because of the often distorted thinking process of individuals and this can be translated into the material you read about other place. I agree with you that BOTH reading and visiting a place is ideal. But my point was if we had to compare one with the other, in MOST cases visiting and seeing for yourself is better because you can take in more detail. Now on the other hand, in some cases where there is serious danger involved, reading about the place is better. President Roosevelt didn't have to visit Japan to learn how to best defeat them in WWII, everything he needed to know he could READ about from others in his briefings and make the best decisions from there. Mel Just like in journalism/and or researching a dissertation: First /Primary source: Presence, Eyewitness; oral history interviewing those who experience it; newspapers; periodicals- Secondary source: Print Published academic books I'm suprised that they consider "oral history interviews" a primary source of information. To me, "primary" or "first hand" means YOU YOURSELF have witnessed or experienced an event. 　 Chev Absolutely!--although that would be a crude definition of a much bigger picture, in that these giants were "fallen angels", however, part of their genetics reveal that they do not come from 'the modern mankind'--Homonids. Their presence, based on my understanding of research into Genetics, come from intermixing, however it was a specific kind of 'Selective Breeding' that led to their presence. Interesting...... Can you go into a little more detail about what you mean as far as selective breeding or giants? Even as a kid I would wonder IF angels were spirits or spiritual entities from another realm, how would they be able to have any type of sexual act with human beings in the physical much less reproduce with them.

After reading what you all have said, it now makes more and more sense why Twitter HAS NOT banned racist right wingers like Alex Jones despite his clearly racist activity. I don't believe Trump's approval rating is at 45% any more than I believe the economy is "improving". I think BOTH of these concepts constantly promoted in the media lately are lies and this is one of the reasons I've argued on here that we shouldn't put too much emphasis on "stats" and other figures and numbers that you snatch off of some site or out of some book as if it's the absolute truth. These numbers and figures people keep quoting is 2nd hand information at best and probably 20th or 30th hand information that has been passed down and bounced around in various circles but probably started off as a lie. AfroAmericans need to get into a habit of attaining DIRECT knowledge that has been verified either by themselves or someone known to be trustworthy AND simple don't accept information that hasn't been. For example..... If someone comes to you and says Black males are responsible for 55% of the homicides in America and quote FBI statisics....simply don't accept it. You don't have to call it a lie (because we don't know it's false either)...simply don't accept it and TELL people: "Until I or someone I trust can verify this I will refuse to accept or reject it" ....and move on. But many of our people don't want to do this because they don't want to look stupid or silly infront of White people for rejecting their information. My overall point is we as a people should stop being so lazy and accepting so much information that does't come from us and start seeking the TRUTH for ourselves.

Troy So if Black women want to run around in Blond wigs and call it empowerment fine, but be prepared for our people to see their nappy black hair in ugly and inferior. Excellent! And this was the point I've been basically making. Chev I'm not sure what system will work then. I say we should allow for BOTH polygamy and monogamy as well as celibacy for those who choose. But if you're saying that polygamy wouldn't work and we can clearly SEE that monogamy isn't working in our community.....then the question is what WILL work?

Troy I HOPE you aren't comparing me to Jesse Lee....lol. It's one thing to occasionaly misunderstand where a person is coming from, it's quite another to purposely antagonize others to the point they become speechless and in shock like Jesse does. Are you telling me I've said things that left you breathless and immobile? 　 Chev What Jesse did in that particular interview was MILD compared to his usual performance. Believe it or not he KNOWS how to be intelligent and get along with people when he wants to, he purposely does with the Black people he interviews for contemptuous purposes.

It's tolerated because too many AfroAmericans still refuse to think for themselves. For centuries AfroAmericans have been forced into the Monogamous Nuclear Family structure because the dominant family structure of the Caucasian slave masters and colonizers but CLEARLY this doesn't work for most of us and it has led to failure, disappointement, and down right embarassment. In Africa it's common and the norm for Black men and women....even a Black man with several women...to get married in their teens and STAY married all the way up into their 70s and 80s until one of them dies. But that's because in Africa we still have OUR system and ways of marriage and family structure that has lasted for thousands of years. In the United States and through out Latin America however MOST Black men and women don't even both getting married anymore, and of the ones who do most end up getting separate or divorced. Clearly this system isn't working for us and it's SILLY for people to continue to hold on a system that doesn't work for them. If it works for White people....let them have it. They can walk around holding hands and licking icecream together until old age. But WE need to stop trying to imitate them and do what works for US.