Pioneer1

Help is a FORM of assistance, but all assistance isn't helping. When you ASSIST someone you merely provide resources that make it easier or comfortable for them to do whatever they want or are trying to do. When you HELP someone you're providing resources to actually IMPROVE their condition. This is why welfare is called government ASSISTANCE instead of government HELP.

Mel and Cynique Lol @ all of this "praise" you two are heaping on Malcolm X. But something tells me that if he were on this site today you two would be quarrelling with HIM because of his views the same way you love to quarrel with Troy and myself over ours.

Del why do Black Women marry or date outside the race. Women's choices vary individually, but generally speaking I've found out that most women of color who date or marry White men do so in hopes that it will make things better for themselves and their children. It's certainly isn't because they find them sexier or think they're going to please them better in bed....which is some of what nature intended. In a society where the resources are being heavily manipulated and controled, most women don't have the option of dating and marrying simply for sexual gratification, they have to make all type of sacrifices to their comfort and dignity by going after whoever they think will be the best provider for them and their offspring. And believe it or not many AfroAmerican women even date and marry White men hoping that their children will come out lighter skinned with curly or wavy hair.....LOL. There's a difference between wealthy and rich. Bianca Jagger and Jackie O were wealthy. Trump and Madonna are rich. And some people have so much charisma they don't need money. There is definately a difference between wealth and richness. Wealth includes POWER and influence in your society. But I would still definately put Trump and Madonna in the "wealthy" category. 　 　 Mel By the way, any woman agreeing to give birth to man’s offspring upgrades that man- full stop Hmmm....... I understand what you're saying but I wouldnt' go as far as saying it "upgrades" the man. Upgrading is usually a more concrete and absolute term that is evident both internally and externally whether society itself can see the improvement. I would say having a man's baby or just being willing to sleep with a man improves his SELF ESTEEM and basically tells him "good job" in whatever he's doing. But if I understand the FOUNDATION of your point then not only do I agree but it's one that I've been telling a lot of young women for over a decade now who think they can "change" criminal minded and irresponsible men. Many young girls think that they can sleep with a man first and change him later through her love and encouragement. I tell them that it's just the oppposite...... Sleeping with a man is a way of REWARDING him and once a woman sleeps with a man in any condition he's in she's basically telling him "I love you just the way you are which is why I'm giving myself to you". If he was no-good, broke, and abusive when you met him and you rewarded him with all of the sex he wants.....why should he change his behavior and risk messing things up. 　 　 　 　 Troy Clearly that video has been heavily edited. I wonder what looks like uncut and in it's entirety. You can tell that the interview was going to be a hit piece when Carter started off with the phrases: "You NEED to answer" and " You CLAIM to be a leader".....lol. I wonder how far would a reporter (even a Fox News Reporter) would have gotten with Trump if they had started off with telling him you NEED to answer these questions,lol. He...like many people of that time...seriously underestimated the intellectual capabilities of Dr. Khalid Muhammad and thought he would be able to easily trap and manipulate him. Muhammad didn't just have a doctorate degree but he held degrees from both Yale AND Harvard and was a professor in California state. That man was literally "gifted"...a genius. If you followed the rap groups of the 80s and 90s like Public Enemy, Khalid Muhammad is the one giving the speech in the introduction of Public Enemy's "Night of the Living Baseheads" song that tells the tale of New York's crack epidemic in the 80s. BTW, if you think THAT interview was interesting, listen to an interview Khalid did with SEAN HANNITY that seems to have taken place sometime in the 80s early in Sean's career before he joined Fox News when he was just a small time radio host: https://youtu.be/Pm7_JqqUQWc

Apparently you don't know the difference between HELP and ASSISTANCE. The Urban League., most charitable organizations, and even the modern federal welfare program....don't HELP AfroAmericans. They merely ASSIST them. There's a difference.

Mel Black women are freakishly loyal to black men. So loyal it makes me throw up in my mouth a little Don't confuse loyalty with lack of options. Perhaps they were "loyal" because for centuries they didn't have much of a choice. From first contact up until about 30 years ago the VAST majority of sexual contact between Caucasian men and African women was by force and violence. Either by abuse and/or by straight up rape. Although they DID exist.....even during slavery....only a very small percentage of African female/Caucasian male sexual relationships were actually based on mutual love and understanding. Most Caucasian men didn't accept African women as "wife material" or even fully human in many cases. They primarily saw them as sexual objects and property. So for most of American history AfroAmerican women stayed with Black men because most of them didn't have the OPTION to leave. Things are different today where it appears many Caucasian men are taking every opportunity they can to score themselves a "Black chick"....lol. Many of them are not only marrying Black women, but paying their bills, taking care of their children from previous relationships, even buying property and moving them on to it. An intelligent person would ask WHY the change of heart all of sudden now? Why would you don so much love and respect on a person whom you declared "subhuman" just a few generations ago?

Mel I'm not wealthy (yet) so perhaps you may know more about the habits of wealthy Black men than I do. I'm not going to get into that argument. I said she was his housekeeper and I was wrong about that. So it turns out that she was actually a NANNY, not too much of a difference from a socio-economic point of view. And I checked out her parents and although they aren't broke the family certainly wasn't anywhere on Tiger's level of wealth and prestige. The point is......he married DOWN and not up, financially. What did he have to gain by marrying her? What sphere of influence or connections did she have that he wasn't privy to already? This had nothing to do with strategy, he just saw a woman he found attractive and ended up "getting got". I'm sure SHE was planning and being strategic though. Many Caucasian women who marry wealthy AfroAmerican men do. I'm sure her and her family are enjoying half of HIS wealth she managed to wrangle away from him.....as was probably planned in advance.

It seems more like something Pioneer would like or post, than you ((Looks over at Del.....stares....and shakes head))

Mel Is that what black women tell you? Or do you believe that because of the love you have for black women and you hope it’s the truth? I have an extremely high regard for the truth. My love for AfroAmerican women has little to no bearing on my acceptance of the truth. I already KNOW that many of them have more respect for and faith in Caucasian men than AfroAmerican men even if they told me otherwise, and I also know why. I wish this weren't so but I don't refuse to accept it. I learned early in life that in order to change reality you must first ACCEPT it as it really is. 　 and tiger didn’t marry no broke chick who wasn’t connected. It was my understanding that the first White wife he had that kept going upside his head and tried to run him over with the car that he bought her started off as his HOUSEKEEPER. Not exactly the cream of the crop in White society. Inquiring minds like mine always want to know - who wealthy folks are marrying. Why? Lol...trying to calculate your chances??? I think think he's got himself another White woman right now but like most AfroAmerican men Tiger is HIGHLY polygamous so you still might have a shot. Michael Jackson said "get on it"....lol.

Troy Oh, you remember Conrad Muhammad? It's my understanding that he's now a Christian minister and has reclaimed his old last name "Tillard"...lol. As was the case in Harlem, Watts, and Chicago the Nation of Islam was really big in Detroit too and you can still find older AfroAmerican men who will reminisce about the old days. But like you mentioned, another thing I like about them was they had a history of not going to the suburbs but going to the blackest and poorest parts of urban areas all over America and setting up thriving businesses. Kind of like Queen X, the teachings of the Nation of Islam in Detroit was instrumental in helping me make the transition from the common "nigga" on the street to a conscious Black man who wants the best for his people. I personally wish we had a non-religious organization that all could come into and get help when we need it along with a proper knowledge to improve ourselves and help our families. Perhaps the closest we came to that in the past was Marcus Garvey's UNIA. It was millions strong and was ecuminical not adhering to any particular religious or political affiliation.

Troy Not sure exactly what rubbed YOU the wrong way about her being married to a White man, but as for me....I have a double standard when it comes to interracial sexual relations. I respect people's individual freedom to sleep with whom they choose in most cases but I find it far more acceptable for an African man to have sex with a Caucasian woman than for an African woman to have sex with a Caucasian man because of the dangers involved. When men have sex with women it's usually a physical thing or a lustful thing but the "heart" is USUALLY not involved. Hell, many slave masters had sex with African women without showing the least bit of concern for them or their offspring. However most of the time when a woman VOLUNTARILY lays down with a man she has strong feelings for him and often times really loves him and will sell out her own family and community for his love....which makes AfroAmerican women more vulnerable to being used. I think most men instinctively know this which is why most groups are especially protective of their women while allowing their men to run around having sex with whoever. BTW....good looking out in the other thread, lol.

The man asked "WHO" is Black! He's talking about PEOPLE.....not things/inanimate objects! And you wonder why so many people question your comprehension skills, lol.

Mel A white woman expands a black man’s reach and sphere of influence in a way a working-class or middle-class black woman can’t. If they travel the ladder together - then they complement each other. If the black woman is already in the 1% then she can open other doors for the both of them. Marriage is still a business partnership. That holds some truth, but it's really not that deep.....trust me, lol. It's really quite simple. Most men are attracted to looks more so than women and since many AfroAmerican men unfortunately see Caucasian women as prettier or more beautiful....that's who they choose. Most of these poor and working class White women Tiger Woods and other wealthy AfroAmericans run around with can barely open a can of soup.....without slicing their thumb by accident.....let alone open up spheres of influence, lol. Most aren't thinking that deeply, they just want what looks good to them.

Can anyone name me any other organization (Black or White) in modern history that has a better record of cleaning up and reforming AfroAmericans and making them productive citizens? Not being religious ofcourse I don't agree with everything Minister Farrakhan or the Nation of Islam teaches however I agree with far more than I disagree with. One of the things I like about them is that they are PRACTICAL and believe in actually helping THEMSELVES instead of sitting around waiting on White people or Jesus to help them. This was expecially the case back in the 50s and 60s when they used to FORCE many of their members to stop working for Caucasians and demanded that they either work for another Muslim or start their own businesses. They were also quicker to use physical force to discipline their members or other Black people back in those days so in a sense FORCED AfroAmericans to straighten themselves up.

Lol @ how commonly so many AfroAmericans proudly refered to themselves as "negro" in those days. I actually think both of them had good points. As usual brother Malik was on point in his message of the Black man acquiring land and pooling his resources together to do for self instead of begging White people to allow him to be a part of their society. But I also think Evie had a good point about us demanding our rights as citizens and members of this society. As long as we're going to live IN this society (as opposed to leaving) we might as well have full citizenship with all of it's priviledges. As far as her being in an "interracial" relationship....... I found this picture of her with her husband: She's a little up in age in that photo but to me she looks MIXED RACE herself. She clearly has a lot of Caucasian ancestry whether it's immediate as a result of a Caucasian parent or more of a "Beyonce" type where there's a flood of it coming from way back. How hard is it for a Caucasian man to fall inlove with someone who damn near looks just like him? Also, I'm not sure if anyone else caught this but at the 21 minute mark the caller refered to Black people as "African Americans". I thought this was amazing for a show back in 1961 because I thought that term didn't come into existence until the early 80s! On a lighter note......she sounds cute as hell, lol. I'm glad I wasn't the one having to debate her because that very feminine voice would probably have modulated my intensity and and assertiveness, lol. 　 Del Ironically I used to wonder why successful Black Men married outside of the race. For the same reason so many successful Black men buy nice cars and big houses.... Because it's something many of them always WANTED to do but just didn't have the money or opportunity to do so....until they got it. Man makes the money....money doesn't make the man. The only thing money does is expose who you already are and reveal what you really believe.

When you start people from a young age worshipping this: And telling them that's what "the Lord" looks like or that's "the Savior", what else should you expect from them when they grow up except to follow a man who LOOKS like that? Jim Jones.....like many Caucasians....learned at an early age how inlove so many AfroAmericans were with Caucasians. He learned how easily influenced they were and how easily manipulated they were and he took advantage of this.

Lol.....was this aimed (indirectly) at me?

Del Unless Africa wasn't the birth place of people I personally don't believe it was. I believe Black people originally came out of the region now commonly known as the Indus Valley region and India where hundreds of millions of Black people STILL reside to this day. I believe a portion of those people left and WENT into Africa but they weren't originally from there. Again, these are just BELIEFS since I wasn't around to witness it for myself.

Absolutely. Elijah Muhammad and other great ones among us have made it clear that tricks and lies have been the main tactics used to divide and conquere the masses of people of color around the globe. If you doubt this or think it's a joke, consider the book The Prince by Machiavellie that plainly admits this and details how it's done. That book was written centuries ago but the tactics are STILL being used because they STILL work.

Del China's currency may become the de facto currency replacing the US dollar. One question: WHO or what group will make this decision? Why did the English give back Hong Kong? They didn't. Go to Hong Kong and look at all the British and other European businesses and other financial interests that still thrive there. Troy I didn't say Britain, I said Europe. But what I really meant was the global Caucasian power structure that exists in both Europe and the United States.

A lot of interesting thoughts in the conversation. Let me just say that AfroAmerican women can't have it BOTH ways. They can't run around society telling everyone how STRONG they are and taking pride in being strong and aggressive and relishing in the fact that they are independent and don't need a man because they're strong enough to take care of themselves......... But as soon as racist Caucasian men start attacking them and putting the fire to their ass they want to run back home and start banging on the door demanding help and support from the AfroAmerican men they just dismissed as being ineffective and untrustworthy. AfroAmerican women need to decide WHO their allies will be: White women or Black men. Many of these White feminists that AfroAmerican women were singing songs with and roasting marshmellows with as they bashed "toxic mascuinity" together infront of camp fires have run off and abandoned them now. They've gotten back with their wealthy and influencial White husbands. .....Black women better wake up soon! Goldie Taylor needs to WAKE UP! Better yet someone needs to call her tonight and WAKE HER UP. Wake her up from the middle of her deep fried turkey dream sleep with cornbread crumbs still falling out of her mouth and ask her IN WHOM does she place her trust and dedicate her loyalty: White woman or the Black man?

Troy A term is only erroneous if it's INACCURATE. "Black" is erroneous because most people who are classified under that term aren't actually black but rather various shades of brown. However, "African race" is NOT an erroneous term because it's correct to call those who either live on or are descended from the African continent "Africans" and "race" is merely a way of categorizing human populations. Thus term "African race" is legitimate. There....you have it. (smile).

Speaking of tribalism................ I've noticed how both Cynique and Mel tend to big-up and "like" eachothers posts a lot. Is that just a coincidence? Or just another example of AfroAmerican women conspiring with eachother.....lol. Troy Black people vote with their tribe the Democrats, which some people believe is why they do a poor job serving us. I'm one of those who believe that this unconditional loyalty is but ONE of the reasons that the Democrat party does a poor job serving AfroAmerican needs. The party of white men is the Republican party. The really wealthy are above party affiliation, as they control both parties. Man, you better STOP stealing my sentiments! I agree 100%. At the very top both parties are owned and contoled by wealthy Caucasians which is why AfroAmericans shouldn't declare loyalty to either party but either FORM OUR OWN or stand independently and force them both to COMPETE for our votes by promising us the most benefits on an individual election by election basis. We also know that white racists do not see class they just see race. Exactly. They don't see gender or women's issues either....they see race. Which is why so many White women voted for Trump and the Republican party. Mel Damn, sounds like you lived in New Jack City with Nino Brown as the mayor ! Also most wealthy people claim they vote democrat (or registered democrats ) depending on where you live this would mean wealthy people are in the democratic tribe too. A party that is most wealthy people (Democrats) is probably NOT serving poor people I find these statements hard to believe. When you say "most wealthy" do you say that to mean: - MOST of the wealthy people in the United States? Or -the MOST WEALTIEST people in the United States? ....because there's a difference between those two combinations. It’s pure ignorance to say someone is voting for something that is NOT serving them... I'm sure you've heard the phrase "Lesser of two evils". This is the mentality of those who DO often vote for something that may not serve them but they see the alternative as actually HARMFUL to them . They would rather have the neutral than the negative. 　 　 The ignorance lies in those who believe they know why people vote they way they do...and still don't take the time to find out otherwise. I used to be like that and then I actually started listening to others - and their reasons became loud and clear. While I agree with this, there's more to understanding why people vote the way they do that you won't get simply by believing what they TELL you. White people don't tell you outright if they're are doing something for racist reasons. They'll find all types of elaborate and indirect ways to justify what they're doing or why they're doing it which seemingly make no sense to you if you BELIEVE the reasons they're giving. But if you know it's really racism at the core of their actions then you'll look past what they simply say. I've discovered that their ACTIONS speak much louder than any words they may offer to satisfy your questions. CONTEXT is your friend, @Troy - we were in the middle of getting slaughtered daily by the crack epidemic and the jamaican, dominican and colombian drug cartels in the 90s... I couldn't have take my babies to the park - because it was bloodstained with bits of brain matter .... I left NY because it was no longer safe to raise my family in brooklyn... I was one of those mothers who was tired of seeing dead bodies in the streets because of the lawlessness. No mother should have to tell her pre-teen daughter not to step in blood... but that's where we were before Clinton took office. Rememember they flow of drugs and guns coming into the america under the republican watch? Remember Ollie North and Bush and the iran-contra affair and the blowback of gunrunning in the US? That was under the republicans. ... So tell me again how hyper-incarceration wasn't good for black people who who lived right in the middle of the drug wars. I don't know what Troy would say but if you asked me I'd say because the very demographical group who locked AfroAmerican men up for selling the drugs and using the guns.....were the SAME ones who put the drugs in the community and gave them the guns in the first place -Caucasian males. It's strange how you have all different types of groups in this society. Asian women, Indian men, Latina women, African men.....yet VERY FEW of any of these people are involved in bringing drugs or guns into America nor involved in arresting and incarcerating those who sell or use the drugs and guns. Caucasian males dominate on both ends, which tells me there must be some sort of connection. Beliefs and knowing are two different things. I agree with you. And we know knowledge is TRUTH, not simply what someone tells you. So IF the truth is that wealthy Caucasians control both parties and they also are responsible for bringing drugs and guns into America as well as formulating racist drug laws that allow them to arrect and incarcerate those who sell those drugs and use those guns......then it doesn't matter what we BELIEVE about Bill Clinton or how much we THINK he helped the AfroAmerican community; the TRUTH would be that he was just as involved and guilty for the violence and mayhem of the urban areas as his Republican predecessors. On a side note........ I'm not exactly sure why you posted that video of Goldie on MSNBC or how it related to the topic except to perhaps display how articulate she may be. But I was wondering where TJ Holmes went when he left CNN.....lol. I saw him at the CNN Center a couple times when I lived down in Atlanta.

I put Thanks Giving in the same category as Mother's Day, Father's Day, and Valentine's Day...... I don't need Caucasians to tell me to or give me a special day to be thankful for the blessings The Supreme Being gives me, or be thankful to live in the United States (despite it's many faults), or remember my Parents, or call my brothers up to see how they're doing, or give my lady friends a present to show them how much I love them. I do this almost EVERYDAY. Outside of the commercialization of these so-called "holy-days" AfroAmericans need to learn to THINK FOR THEMSELVES and develop their own "holy-days". That's why I liked what Maulana Karenga did with Kwanza and Minister Farrakhan did with the Day of Atonment. They CHOSE which days they were going to sanctify.

Black is the erroneous English term used for members of the the African race. Occasionally it's also used for members of the Dravidian race as well. I think we need to be careful ascribing culture and cultural practices to race. Or saying he or she "acts Black". Don't get me wrong, I DO believe there are certain habits and characteristics that are more common to some races than others, however we should be very careful to distinguish RACE from ETHNICITY and not attribute certain patterns of behavior and speech common to CERTAIN GROUPS of Africans to the ENTIRE race. For example, I used to think that if you didn't like JODECI....lol....yo' ass wasn't Black! There are probably over 2 billion African (or so-called Black) people around the world with hundreds of MARKEDLY different languages, diets, and other cultural habits. Too often what people call "Black" culture or behavior are actually behavioral patters (often negative and self-destructive) that were developed by isolated groups of Africans as a consequence of being raised inside a racist anti-African society. So-called "soul food" is a good example. It's called "Black" food but actually it was only developed and primarily eaten by Africans in America.....not Africa.

Del Who controls China's currency? Well, From the looks of all of those Western numerals I see on it. It's controlled by those who have the powers to decide it's value and even it's legitimacy -the Western powers.