Pioneer1

Nubian Brother you make many good and valid points, however most of them are IRRELEVANT in relationship to the point I'm making. Cannibalism and whether or not we should adopt ancient African traditions have little to nothing to do with MY POINT that we should judge a man by a balance of his ENTIRE life's work instead of condemning him simply for his infrequent episodes of misconduct. Also, although I don't advocate it as the most ideal system I wouldn't entirely dismiss the idea of arranged marriage. Sometimes your parents and elders know YOU better than you know yourself in your youthful ignorance and immaturity and thus they may know more about what and who is best for you in the long run. Many times I've had older men in my family warn me about the character of certain females I was involved with that I later found they were right on point because they were wise enough and had been around long enough to KNOW better than I had.

Del Yes it is true it's called mores or morals. Which are universal for any given culture and and time. However you can't compare across cultures and temporally it can break down over time. Mores and morals are NOT "universal" across cultures. Different cultures have different ethical and moral codes. Hell, even the SAME culture often will change their morals over time as they advance or decline. Homosexuality was once illegal and condemned in Western culture, now it's generally accepted. 　 You have your own code of what you consider ethical. We clearly inhabit different world's. You're absolutely right about this. As you said I have my OWN code, and you don't. You seem to be using SOMEONE ELSE'S code for your ethics instead of using the brain that The Supreme Being gave you to define your own ethics. 　 　 Nubian As I said earlier, I don't advocate for arranged marriages or marrying girls off to older men, it was more of an attempt to put things into historic perspective; however look at the people who come from those nations and compare the stability and productivity of THEIR families to the stability and productivity of the average AfroAmerican family. Do we have any room to criticize them and how they are doing things? Since integration AfroAmericans collectively have ATTEMPTED to model our family structure after the Caucasian families we see around us hoping it will work for us the same way it has worked for them. It's only led to 50 years of failure, broken families, and dyfunction. You can criticize arranged marriage and the suppression of women in African cultures all day long but African families are in a heck of a lot better shape that most Black American families. Their divorce rate is much lower, their households make more money, and the children function better in school than the average AfroAmerican family. The nuclear family structure CLEARLY doesn't work for us. I personally think was as a people need to sit down and intelligently design a brand new family structure specific to our people and our unique circumstance here in America.

Del Sally Hemnibgs The only people who bring up Sally Hemmings are OTHER BLACK PEOPLE. Most White people sweep that issue under the rug, act as if it never existed, and rarely if ever mention it except when a Black person brings it up and forces them to acknowledge it. See, they protect THEIR own historic figures from shame and ridicule. We should do the same. Again, I ask you WHERE did you hear about Martin sleeping with MEN? Can you show me a source? I haven't even heard that one from the FBI ! Or why aren't there more women dictators. Well, just look at the average AfroAmerican household being governed by the authoritarian rule of the single Black mother. Then ask yourself would the entire world be better off if it were functioning like you see that household, lol.

Delano Lol..... Here you go again speaking for and advocating the issues of Black women. We currently have atlest 3 AfroAmerican women who frequent this forum, yet you reliably seem to feel Black women need YOU as their advocate and spokesperson. My question for you is what exactly is it about THIS particular article that grabbed your attention?

Chev 　 So, it wouldn't matter if he was banging your young daughter, --along with other young girls--just that he did a good job as a contractor working on your house? Great question. Yes, his behavior as it relates to my daughter WOULD be a concern of mine....it it were brought up. I seriously doubt a subject like that would be brought to my or any other customer's attention unless that contractor's competitors or enemies were trying to launch a smear campaign against them. However, even with all of that...... If he was good enough at his job and wealthy enough, depending on my daughter's age I just MIGHT consider whether or not he'd make a good HUSBAND and PROVIDER for my daughter! In the old days, men actually LOOKED to marry their daughters to successful accomplished men with the understanding that they liked sex and would be having sex with them. I'm sure you remember that in the older days some of our grandmothers and great grandmother's were being married BY THEIR FATHERS to older men at 15 and 16 years of age! I don't advocate that, however from their perspective I'm sure they were looking out for their and their children's interests by trying to pair them with men they thought would take care of them. We all must understand something..... In historic Caucasian society sexhas been condemned as nasty and filthy and the worse thing you can do to a person; which is some of the worst insults revolve around giving peope the finger and saying "f-you". This is why historically they have had so many sexually dysfunctional societies. We need to define OUR OWN codes of morality.

Just like Mel, I rest MY case from the previous thread at how Delano and the ladies seem to always take eachothers sides and have eachothers' backs. Like Stevie Wonder said: This is more than a coincidence or a lucky chance...... Del you are confusing your lack of knowledge with information. And YOU are confusing mere information....actually DISINFORMATION....with verified FACTS. Again, I asked you what CREDIBLE sources you got this from and you listed Hoover's FBI. ((shakes head)) Del and Cynque I can't believe you two just sat up there and attempted to legitimize Hoover and his COINTEL program! I see how readily you accept information coming from an organization who at the time ADMITED they were putting out lies and disinformation to sway the public against Civil Rights organizations and it's leaders and divide them against eachother. Mel So much for being a leader when you can't even handle your own family business It's funny how you almost NEVER hear the leadership of poweful and wealthy White men like George Washington or Thomas Jefferson being questioned by White society because of who they slept with. Hell, Trump can sleep with whoever he wants and STILL ends up President with major support. Sometimes I believe some of you are just looking for any excuse to de-legitimize and tear down the authority of Black male leadership. Any lies and accusations are good enough to do the job in your minds.

Here we go with more accusations and allegations revolving around sex. First of all Del who told you MLK was having sex with men...or even other women for that matter? What CREDIBLE sources did you get this information from? The same organization led by a man who is a PROVEN liar and DOCUMENTED homosexual himself? That's the only source I know of who orchestrated the tapes of King's alleged affair that he tried to use to blackmail King into killing himself. Is THAT the source you're going to use Del? What about Corretta his wife who stayed with him until the end? Has SHE admitted that King had affairs with MEN and WOMEN and corroborated these allegations?

Is it asking too much for women to expect men to have good character and integrity? Yes, because depending on the woman asking...THEIR idea of "character" and "intergrity" may be perverted by contemporary society. A man's over all WORKS are the clearest examples of his character and integrity, not who he's having sex with. If pay a contractor to build a house for me, the last thing I'm concerned about is how that man (or woman) has slept with last night, whether or not he cheated on his wife, or whether or not he's a virgin who masturbates 10 times a week. All of that is IRRELEVANT to me. I want to know can he do the job I hired him to do and HOW WELL will he do it.

Ofcourse! And that's how men ARE to be evaluated! You're supposed to use REASON and LOGIC and take a wholistic approach in determining someone's value to their community and not make snap judgements based on emotion or contemporary moral standards. Now you're going to ignore all of the good that man did for Black America and for Black men in particular and label him "predator" just because he's accused of having sex with girls. Come on man. See this is one of the reasons I said you can be counted on to take the sides of the women. Because that's how women think. They tend to base a man's entire worth....not on all of his accomplishments together....but on who he had sex with . "Sure he came up with the cure for cancer, the cure for AIDS, and he prevented World War 3 and saved millions of lives....but I still don't like him." Why not? "Because he CHEATED ON ME!!!" A man can do all types of good and his wife will STILL be ready to put honey on his windshield or burn his clothes because he had sex with someone else besides her, lol. Not saying that cheating on your wife or sex with young ladies you're not married to is ok to do....but hell....put things into perspective when you're dealing with a person. Like Troy said, it's an INTERNAL issue that people inside that organization must grapple with. One of the reasons Malcolm strongly reacted to the accusations against Elijah Muhammad was because he thought Elijah was divine....sent by God. If a man you thought was divine commits what you think is a sinful act.....it often times ignites a moral crisis in your psyche. That's what religion tends to do. I don't have the same problem because I believe Elijah Muhammad was a human being who could and did make mistakes. If they came out tomorrow with some shit on Marcus Garvey it wouldn't phase me one bit because IF I believed it....I'd say the good he did for AfroAmericans far outweighted that bad. Again, when I evaluate people I take ALL of their accomplishments (that I know about) into consideration, and not just the bad or most condemning.

Troy If someone could get a DNA sample we could solve the mystery of where they came from in a few minutes. The West has been trying to do that for years. Several problems arise from that, among which are: 1. Contact with them increases the likelihood of speading of disease. 2. Do you realize that if you have enough samples of a person's DNA you can actually affect THEM with what you do to their DNA samples? Perhaps the North Sentinelese instinctively know this which is why they refuse ALL contact with Caucasians. However there is a video of them having friendly contact with some brown Indian/Asian looking fishermen years ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExdEHU02Zk0 Notice how this so-called "uncivilized" tribe of people who supposedly never had contact with anyone else and were isolated for over 50,000 years knew how to BURY a dead body....as opposed to burning it or casting it at sea. Spears and clubs are pretty much no-brainer weapons, but notice how they also knew how to make bows and arrows with poison tips as weapons.

I've been commenting for years on how much more attractive African people are today than many AfroAmericans. Not just in terms of physical features but in behavior. I work in a place that services a lot of Africans....especially West Africans. I've noticed over the years the differences between AfroAmericans and Africans have not only increased but are stunning in their contrasts. They tend to be slimmer, the men and women better proportioned, the skin clearer, hair blacker and shinier, quicker with math, and they speak English better. Ofcourse this isn't the case with every African vrs AfroAmerican but I'm talking about on average. Many of them look like most of our people USED TO look 30 and 40 years ago when they ate better, used less drugs, and had a different way of life and mentality than today. But perhaps.....and this was pointed out to me by a sister a few weeks ago...most of the Africans I see coming into the United States tend to be on the wealthy or educated side so maybe they look good because they can afford to eat properly and keep themselves up. Not sure what the case is but it seems like many Africans seem to be a "better version" of AfroAmericans.

Troy They are lucky this is not the 15 century because they would have been annihilated or enslaved. Well, the weapons that Caucasian civilization has TODAY seem to be more sophisticated than the weapons they had 500 years ago. As much as they've tried lately....if they aren't being annighilatd or enslaved today, what makes you think they could have done that to them in the past? From what I've read about their history others actually HAVE tried to kill off and enslave them but their were unsuccessful. Hell, the United States government won't even go over there to retrieve the body of one of it's slain citizens! Have you ever heard of that being the case with any other nation in history? 　 　 Chev Firstly though, I want to say, that I feel sad for that man that was killed. He was so young, only 26 years old. But I can't believe that he was made to believe that he could go to these people like that!!! I can't believe that he would try to bring that form of 'Christianity' to these people. According to what I read, it was illegal for him to go there anyway. I believe he was a colonizer who TRIED to go overthere and "soften up" the people for future exploitation by introducing them to Christianity and getting them to STOP serving and believing in thier native spiritual traditions. Had he been successful and had the island believing in and worshiping this: It wouldn't be long before the forced labor, murder, and physical abuses followed. 　 Mel Remember, it was when you wrote that I shouldn't encourage Pioneer1, because I mentioned there might be merit to his theory the original black people were from India. Troy, like many other people was suprised to learn that these people were Black....jet Black. The way the media portrays them they call them "Sentinelese" as if they were Asian, and they also call it an "Indian Island" which leads people not very knowledgable about the Indian subcontinent to believe they may be a tannish colored people.

Del Let me know if any of that is incomprehensible to either @Troy @Pioneer1 or@NubianFellow I am awaiting your responses. My response: Elijah Muhammad was one of the greatest Black men to have been born in the United States. I don't give a shit IF he banged 10,000 young secretaries and was smiling to himself while he was doing it! ...that's between him-them-and The Supreme Being who is the Ultimate Judge. When no one else gave a damn about helping Black men...HE DID. For over 40 years! I don't agree with everything Elijah Muhammad said or did, but as far as I'm concerned the GOOD he's done for Black America outweighs the bad. That's my man.

Lol....... I'm no expert on the North Sentinelese but I'd be willing to wager a pretty substantial amount that there is NO confusion about the role of the men and women among these people; nor is their any confusion over who should be the protectors of the community.

Lol....... I call you Mr. Reliable. Because you can always be counted on to take the sides of the women in almost any argument on almost any issue. But maybe you're on to something. Perhaps you seeing more Black women (attempting) to defend Black boys explains why so many Black men are unwilling or unable to collectively and PROPERLY defend Black women today. Look at the examples they had growing up.

Del and now Troy Well........ I'm not sure why you two felt the strong urge to intercede on Cynique's behalf and assist/help her make her point and disprove mine. She certainly doesn't NEED help or assistance defending herself but.....hey ((shrugs shoulders)). I'm not into gang-banging so as far as I'm concerned if this issue is so important to you three that you're willing to support eachother and ignore everything I say that MAY be correct just to dwell on what I say that MAY be incorrect and prove me wrong, I'd rather abandon it all together....because something tells me the REAL issue is much deeper than this particular subject.

The trachea is called BOTH an "airway" and "windpipe". It looks to me like the words air and wind are being used interchangeably for the same descriptive term. Just like MALE and MAN are different words with different meanings but are still often used interchangeably. I think the analogies I provided were pretty good because: 1. Wind is a TYPE of air......air that's moving. 2. Help is a TYPE of assistance.....assistance that improves quality or state of being. 3. Man is a TYPE of male.....a mature male.

Ohhhh... I'm sorry to hear that. Get better baby. Are you eating or drinking anything like milk, cheese, or chocolate?

Great points! Thank you for not just assisting me but actually HELPING me to prove my point that "help" and "assist" are different words with similar but still different meanings. It helps bolster my original point that most of those organizations Cynique mentioned did not actually HELP AfroAmericans but merely ASSISTED them in maintaining our people in a state of poverty and social dysfunction. But organizations like the UNIA and NOI recognized how critical the situation was and implemented programs to actually HELP improve our condition!

????? Didn't you just say: Lol...... If they have the same function what can an assistant do that a helper can't?

Just because words interchangeable doesn't mean they are the same or have the same definition. "Air" and "Wind" are also interchangeable....but they aren't the same. If you give a drug addict more drugs you aren't helping them, you're assisting them by ENABLING them.

Cynique so what is your point? My point WAS you WERE playing "three card molly" with your phony support of strong protective Black males.....until I called it out and exposed the hypocrisy. 　 You said, "As soon as i heard Malcolm's resonate voice on the video, telling it like it was in response to the shrill, high-pitched enunciations of Evie, the years fell away" So when I've said in the past that AfroAmerican men need to protect their community you and Mel claim I'm being hyperbolic and you even go as far as to demand some examples of my standing up for or protecting Black women. But when Malcolm says the very same thing I've been saying off and on on this site for years.....all of a sudden he's "telling it like it is" ((finger snap)). Gimme a break..... At one point you were even comparing the brother to your daddy and started reminiscing, lol. I felt I HAD to call you out on your bullshit, you do understand don't you? Now YOU, (meaning Cynique alone.....because I think Mel my still be trying to insult my intelligence by continuing to do it....lol) have come right out and admitted that you would be treating Malcolm the same way you're treating Troy, me, and Del -whenever he finds enough nerve to challenge you which is occasionally....lol. You'd be argumentative and nit-pickish finding every fault you can to criticize HIS strong stances and well defined social perspective -especially when it comes to gender relations in the AfroAmerican community- like you do ours. So atleast you're now finally admitting that you really WOULD treat him the same, but only because I forced you to.....lol. I take pride in bringing out the BEST in you Cynique....lol. Mel 　 And that’s what makes Malcolm X , the man.  He didn’t say muslim women he said BLACK Women ...it was unconditional protection. He may be THE man but he wouldn't be YOUR man unless you accepted and respected his authority as your protector. But be aware that his protection requires a level of submission on your part, lol. If you want UNCONDITIONAL protection, you don't need brother Malik Shabazz or any other Black man with sense. You need a damn ROTWIELER.....lol. I speak from experience. I met a black man to pick up tickets for an event. Never laid eyes on him before that moment... As we’re doing an exchange - a cab hit the curb and was heading for us on the sidewalk. Dude jumped in front of me ..to body block. The cab stopped on the curb and recovered, thank goodness. But that man put me in a safe place. That’s a man who protects a woman, any woman. That’s a Malcolm X kinda man. Are you serious? That's just a natural human....or atleast human male.....reaction. Do you seriously think that same man would escort you through the streets of SouthWest Atlanta, West End, or Bankhead with the same thoughtless courage? Yes! Now if he started talking that nonsense it would be a wrap. #ByeMalcolm . I have no patience for Islam and roman-catholicism. I know, you want to have your cake and eat it too. You want a damn fool.....lol. Someone willing to protect and put his life on the line for you unconditionally without YOU having to take any responsibility for your behavior whatsoever. And for the record........ A man need not be religious just to expect feminitity and proper behavior in public from the women in his community. Does she have to walk around covered from head to toe in a blanket with a hole in it for one eye to peak through? No. But I and most of the INTELLIGENT AfroAmerican men I know expect women to naturally carry themselves a certain way. Let's go beyond Black and White..... Go to downtown Atlanta and look at the East Asian, Indian, and Latina women you see walking around. Except for the Latinas....most of them are NOT Muslim or Catholic yet watch how THEY conduct themselves. Do you see them cussing every other word? Do you se them staring at eachother with evil and dirty looks as if they're waiting on any type of disrespect to give them an excuse to react violently? Do you see them cussing at their children, snatching them around, or letting them run in and out of the street unattended? See, these women ACT differently....which is why they're TREATED differently by their men! The gender roles you mentioned seeing in Dubai exist because of how BOTH the men and women behave, not just the men. You know good and dog-gone well the women in Dubai don't act like most of the women you see in Atlanta and other urban areas of the United States....yet you wanna sit up there and ask why don't the men treat them the same as the men in Dubai treat their women.

Mel What I admire about Malcolm X is he didn't say he wanted women to behave a certain way or follow his religion to receive protection. And here lays the problem. Because Elijah Muhammad most definately DID demand that women carry themselves a certain way because the most instrumental aspect of a woman's security and protection is HER and how she handles herself. But Malik didn't have to SAY women must carry and conduct themselves a certain way, it was already understood as COMMON SENSE at that time for women in the Nation of Islam and even most women in the AfroAmerican community. Things have changed dramatically since the time he gave that speech so while the women must still be protected the also must be RE-CIVILIZED (and the men too) to be taught how to properly conduct themselves. 　 No man with good sense will put his life on the line to protect a skank, or some loud angry verbally abusive woman who goes around dressing provocatively or starting fights with men or other women EXPECTING her man or the men in the community to come running to her rescue. There are no free rides. If you want a man to be a man then YOU have to be a lady and act like one and conduct yourself like one; which means you don't put yourself or your man in harms way by STARTING or ENCOURAGING situations that will put your life and safety in danger like dressing provocatively or hanging out in dangerous areas. If you want a man who will provide you with unconditional protection who will allow you to behave as you please, you need to hire a paid bodyguard because no man with good sense will do it.

Mel Oooh yes, you LOVE a good strong brother....when he's dead and gone. But if he were here right now you'd be fussing and arguing with him over the VERY SAME things you're arguing with the men in this thread over. If Malik was posting on this thread right now you and Cynique would both take turns: -"How dare you imply women need men to protect them!" -"Are you saying women aren't strong enough to.....blah blah blah" -"Black men can't even protect themselves from the police or eachother so why would I wait on a.......blah blah blah". So you can stop poking your little fist in the air talking about how on point Malcolm was because you KNOW if he were on here you'd be arguing with him and sounding JUST like Evie, lol. 　 　 Chev How are you, I haven't heard from you in a while. Lol.... Perhaps you were away because you were so influenced by our exchanges that it forced you to do further research on the true history and etymology of biblical stories and myths?

Again..... When you're ASSISTING people you could be helping them or merely ACCOMODATING them. If you're assisting them in the form of HELP then you're improving their condition. If you're assisting them in the form of ACCOMODATION then they remain in the same condition but you just make it a little more comfortable and tolerable without improvement. You can ASSIST someone in being a drug addict by giving them more drugs. You can ASSIST an alcoholic by handing them a bottle. But you aren't helping them; you're actually making matters worse. But if you're actually HELPING someone then you're improving their condition or moving them from one state to a higher state. And again.............. Most of those organization that Cynique mentioned don't actually HELP AfroAmericans. They merely ASSIST them to maintain their same socio-economic condition but tolerate it a little better with a few more toys and food. Marcus Garvey's UNIA and the Nation of Islam actually HELPED thousands if not millions of AfroAmericans improve their health, financial status, and even got them out of legal trouble and kept them out. Del You may be trying to ASSIST in clearing up this argument, but you're not HELPING it...lol.