Pioneer1

I thought it was a psychological ploy in an attempt to offer an air of mystery to his persona and keep people guessing what he really means or where he really stands, lol.

Chev I used to love debating people. Still do sometimes. I love being right/correct and showing others that I am, lol. However as I've gotten older I've realized the importance of debating FOR A GOOD REASON. Like debating in order to convince the person I'm debating with and/or those listening that my ideas are better.

Chev I don't know about that, because of this world that we live in today. I don't think that it revolves only around the 18+ year old, but how this government has shaped us to view Sex. Because of White Supremacy [ie. also White Supremacy that livew within many AfroAmericans too!] we have been conditioned to use Sex and Sexuality as a method of DOMINATION and etc. Sex has become like 'a dirty word' when in reality, it should be a positive experience. You're correct that many use sex as a form of Domination. But if that's their only tool.....can you blame them? This is why I don't have a problem with prostitution in and off itsef (as long as it's not forced). Some people's only source of power and control over themselves or their only immediate way to make money IS through sex and having sex with others in exchange for favors. I wouldn't take that away from them because "I" thought it was wrong that that they shouldn't be doing it. If it's going to help them feed their kids and keep the lights on in the house, unless I promised to do it for them.....I'm going to let them do their thing. 　 I do believe that we are getting these values from White Supremacist, but now though, we are getting these values from Blacks too. if our ancestors were doing right, then we wouldn't be confused today. I believe our problems today stem from our ancestors too. You've made an EXCELLENT point. People often confuse being "nice" with doing the right thing. I don't care how nice you are or what your religious beliefs are, if you are in a position to be defeated and enslaved or slaughtered then you did something "wrong". Not necessarily MORALLY wrong....but socially or politically wrong.....because if you didn't you wouldn't have been defeated and enslaved. If you're walking down the street with your family and a man attacks you all and kills them, YOU did something wrong. You may have not KNOWN what the right thing to do was. You may have seen yourself as helpless. But because there's a solution to every problem there was SOMETHING you could have done (whether you knew what that something was or not) that could have saved your family. Do you understand the point I'm making Chev?

When I say body language, I was speaking specifically about how the first young man to your left started off scratching his side with his entire arm like a chimpazee. And then how they both started pulling their lips apart like monkeys often do. I've said this for years, especially after seeing how most young men walk when they sag their pants.... They are trying to influence our youth to look and act like monkeys to disgrace them.

I'm beyond trying to prove that Jesus was actually a Black man. The question should actually be did the Jesus that the world has given us for the past 1,500 years even EXIST, let alone what his ethnicity was. Infact, was his name even "Jesus"? Why would a man allegedly living in Palestine at a time when the letter "J" didn't even exist have a GREEK name?

Lol......ok, I'll try. 　 If you go back up about 6 posts you'll read where in a response to Del, Troy said: "For reasons previously stated this is impossible to answer. What was your GMAT score? Was it higher than average? If so, maybe is was higher than the average score of a woman, making you more intelligent at taking standardized tests. " Del's response was: "Then why ask questions if its impossible to answer. " Which was s rhetorical question, meant to be more of a statement than a question. But it prompted Troy to say: "Delano in the real world do you also avoid answering questions or answer questions with a question?" ....probably not realizing that Del did answer (or atleast responded to) his questions by basically saying: "Man, why are you even asking me these other questions about my GMAT scores if you think the original question is impossible to answer?" But because Del didn't make that clear in his response it led to MORE confusion among the two.

I've been saying similar things on here for months and probably over a year now. I've BEEN saying that there's a difference between KNOWLEDGE and mere "information" or data that you get from 2nd, 3rd, and even 15th hand sources. I also said knowledge is what YOU experience or observe, verified by YOU. But see, when a BLACK MAN says it....some of you don't want to take it seriously. "Ah....some half drunk nicca on the internet running his mouth. He NEEDS to take his ass to school and get some education before displaying his ignorance all over the place." But when Caucasian....or Caucasian trained...people come along and say the same thing, it's "amazing" and considered worthy of consideration, lol. All of a suddent it becomes a centerpiece for philosophical discussion. It's just like the "voodoo" thing. As long as it was just Black people doing it, many Black folks called it crazy and satanic. But as soon as White folks took notice, started studying it, and got into it then all of a sudden you have a crowd of negroes tying to "reclaim their spirituality"....lol. But anyway...... I think that "science" can prove SOME things but most things they espouse are NOT proven. I've heard that they really haven't even seen an atom yet. Much of Caucasian so-called "science" is based on lies and myths. And they KNOW it because they KNOW eachother, which is why the main people you here questioning official "science" is other Caucasians, but not so much people of color who are educated by them. When was the last time you heard an educated AfroAmerican question anything scientific? Often times it takes another Caucasian to challenge the establishment because many negroes are too scared to. A good example..... For weeks now I've heard in mainstream publications that Russia is planning on sending a probe up to the moon to see if the United States actually landed there. http://fortune.com/2018/11/24/russia-us-moon-landing-conspiracy/ I thought the idea that the United States didn't really land on the moon was mere "conspiratorial talk" until I found out that the Russians themselves are questioning it!

I want you all to take a look at the BODY LANGUAGE of these young men for the first couple minutes of this interview and then tell me what they remind you of or how it makes you feel.......

OK..... After reading it a few times, the last few lines make sense to me now, lol.

More than just the physical aspect of sex, one of the biggest focuses I think we need to pay attention to as AfroAmericans are the moral and ethical aspects. Some of the biggest problems faced in the AfroAmerican community revolve around reckless and improper sexual activity. Male/female relationships. Child abuse Homosexuality and it's acceptance in the Black community Sexually transmitted diseases Unwed pregnacies and the single parent families that are produced by them. I believe many of these social pathologies are as a direct result of AfroAmericans as a group TRYING to copy Caucasians and adopt Caucasians morality, ethics, and social/sexual habits instead of developing those of our own.

What were you BEFORE you decided to be neutral?

I would LIKE for you to apologize for attempting to smear the reputation of a good man who put his life on the line and died for the rights of you and other AfroAmericans, but that would be TOO MUCH like the right thing to do.....lol. So I won't ask for it.

??? What does this bit of "seemingly unrelated" information have to do with the two questions I just posed that you clearly have NOT answered yet? BTW, Elliot hated Black men and even admitted that he was jealous of them because they were having more sex and attracting more women than he was. He felt because he was half White and half Asian that he was "superior", but the women showed him the truth and he couldn't handle it and started killing them over it.

I've been on your case because you've been acting a straight fool lately, lol. First you go after me, Troy, and Nubian Fellow because of the position we took.....or actually the position we REFUSED to take....on condemning the alleged behavior of Elijah Muhammad in another thread. Then you accuse....while boldly refusing to produce a shred of evidence to support it what so ever....Martin Luther King and Malik Shabazz (Malcolm X) have having extramarital AND homosexual affairs! It was surprised because I found it suprisingly unreasonable and unlike you. But hey, it is what it is.

Del Which is it, avoidance or confrontation. Can you tell me how to decide. You should take a "line item veto" approach.....lol. In some cases you should confont a person and engage them in argument if you think it will be productive, and in other cases when you feel no progress will be made you should avoid them.

Del It's like when I supported you Cynique and Troy gave me stick. So i will support Troy and Cynique, and we'll see what happens. Instead of having a "supporting season" when you support CERTAIN people at CERTAIN times.....why not just support the TRUTH regardless of who's mouth it comes out of? I'm not asking you to take the side of the men simply because you're a man. Just treat everyone EQUALLY and support or criticize everyone on a fair basis instead of deciding to stick up for Pioneer for a month or two then change your mind and decide to go against me the next few months to see how that turns out.....lol. What do you think I should think? I think you should think CLEARLY. Be consistent to avoid confusion and mistrust by others Thanks Pioneer. I thought i was deciding based o the merits of the argument not the genitalia of the person. Not when you condemn the men on the forum because they WON'T condemn other men who engage in sexual activities that you disapprove of or think is predatory. You specifically called out the men on this forum because they didn't agree with you and the women over the alleged behavior of Elijah Muhammad.

Not sure how much you've learned about those of us on this site, but unless you've learned "all about".....or atleast ENOUGH about....Martin Luther King, you shouldn't be spreading false rumors about him or his sexuality.

Will you end the discussion unable (or unwilling) to admit that you have absolutely NO evidence to support your claims that The Reverend Doctor was an adulterous homosexual?

Girl you KNOW how Black folks tend to argue and fight among eachother....lol. You should be used to that by now. Infact, Neely Fuller Jr. says that because Black folks tend to argue and fight with eachother so much, the best thing to do is to STAY AWAY from eachother until we have a definite constructive project that we can work with eachother on. I used to shake my head at it, and still do at times. But I also look at the arguing and fighting as a sign of our strength both mental and physical. Kind of like The Dozens that boys used to play (and still do in many communities) with eachother at school or on the street. Where you insult the other to test them and see how much they can take before breaking down crying, running away, or try to fight in anger of losing a verbal match. The key is to remember this is online and not to be too sensitive. Unless someone is making threats against you or talking about your direct family, you let it roll off and keep pushing. I would prefer Black unity, but sometimes we have to work out the "kinks" among ourselves before that unity can take place. I would rather we argue with eachother than ignore eachother and retreat to our own little circles of unanimous agreement where it becomes nothing but an opera house full of multiple echo-chambers.

Troy You asked Del: "you've been throwing around quotes with reckless abandon. What you YOU believe. Do you also believe the virgin mary gave birth to Jesus the Christ? Instead of answering, he told Chevdove: Just being supportive of Chevdove. My beliefs have no bearing in regards to the two quotes. Lol....... That pretty much answers your question and sums up his role these past few weeks. Not having any clear definite opinions of his own on anything. Just unconditionally throwing his support behind the women regardless of the positions they take.....even if they take positions that are against him.

Troy and Chev (but obviously anyone can respond) You both say that 18 is too young for sexual activity but growing up many of the males and females I knew were having sex on a regular basis...some even produced children at 18 and 19, and many of them that I still know of today for the most part have turned out to be just as fine as those who were reportedly virgins and didn't engage in sexual activity. Outside of the troubles that came with actually having children they weren't ready to support, the sexual activity itself didn't seem to make much of a difference in their success or failures of life. Two questions I have is: 1. Is it that 18 and 19 are too young for sexual activity OR is it that THIS SOCIETY ISN'T PROPERLY PREPARING 18 and 19 year olds mentally and socially for what nature has designed them to do at that age? Troy you mentioned that sex at 18 has less to do with love or commitment and more to do with recreation....and I agree, but I don't see that as necessarily a BAD thing. If young people were PROPERLY educated on pregnancy and STDs instead of having the reality hidden from them to the point that they can only learn through "trial and error".....perhaps recreational sex would be seen as just another part of celebrating their newness at adulthood like responsible drinking or getting the right to vote. 2. More importantly in my opinion, WHERE are we as AfroAmericans getting our values and opinions about the appropriateness of sexual expression from? In other words are WE deciding our morals and values for ourselves, or are we getting them from Caucasians and accepting THEIR ever changing moral standards as the epitome? One of the problems I have with Del calling an older male who may have used his position of power to get sex from younger females a "predator" is that: a) it not only assumes that the females he allegedly slept with didn't want sex themselves (as if females don't want sex) b) it assumes that they didn't have an agenda of their own by sleeping with a man of power and authority c) it also slaps the face of centuries if not millenia of African traditions where males of authority and high achievement were REWARDED with sex from the females of their choice. For centuries this was seen as a GOOD thing and not only was permitted but in many cases encouraged, until someone (and that someone was not God) told us it was bad. Who decided that what our ancestors did was bad, and where did THEY (those who made that decision) get the authority to condemn others from?

Delano I don't I was talking about you position. No, that is YOUR position. YOU just said: That is a DIRECT QUOTE from you. My question is why do you feel that prison rape is bad (and I agree) but "preacher rape" is okay???? Are you Catholic and are now....after condemning the NOI....are trying to justify those pedophile priests in the Catholic church, or something? Trying to see where you're going with this......

Hello Deborah Turner-Bey I have a couple questions 1. Your last name is Bey, are you part of or were you born into the Moorish Science Temple? 2. And do you have atleast 3 first hand experiences of whom you call the Cosmic Mother actually protecting you from White Supremacy that you can share with us? These aren't challenges, but sincere questions.

Delano My saying Elijah Muhammed raped teen age girls didn't diminish your opinion of him, nor Troy. Troy can speak for himself but no.....it didn't. Because I don't believe it's true that he did. But when you put a statement that derogatory and inflammatory out in public where thousands have access to it...out of that number MANY WILL believe it. Thus, a certain amount of damage is done. If you don't know the FACTS, it's best not to put out derogatory information. Especially if you've repeatedly been asked to prove or atleast provide evidence for yet failed to do. A question is not an accusation, nor os a questiin a statement. So unless you want to fight with gramma. Yiu dont jave a case, unlwss we were in court. Yiu may want to read or reread the four different types of sentences. Man, ain't nobody trying to 'fight with grandma"...lol You made 2 derogatory claims inside your question. You claimed that King had affairs and you claimed that he slept with men and these claims (that you were unable to prove or even substantiate) were PART of the question. It's like going over a man's house on Thanksgiving, sitting down to the dinner table, and casually asking him infront of his wife and family: "So, are you still banging that b*tch over on Grand River Ave. or have you found another one????" You've just implicated him as an adulterer and demeaned him infront of his family INSIDE the question you asked him. Then why use an example as if rape and infidelity are equivalent. ????? Who said they were? I don't think they are, although they ARE part of the same category of IMMORALITY. Just like assault isn't equivalent to murder but both fall under the category of CRIME. Its using hyperbole in a way that is an attempt to undermine my position. No, it's called being ANALYTICAL and keeping things within proper perspective to keep you from clouding up the argument which is what you're TRYING to do. Thou shalt not confused MORALS, with LAWS, or LAWS with ETHICS. They are 3 separate categories.

????? Why do you think a preacher raping someone is ok?