Pioneer1

Naaaaah...... All attempts at diversion will fail, lol. YOU started this thread accusing MLK of having affairs with BOTH men and women, and when challenged to produce evidence of this so far you haven't been able to. Any further points you'd like to make before this case is laid to rest?

.....just as long as you don't confuse SUPPORTING Black women with actually PROTECTING them. People in distress need a police officer not a damn cheerleader, lol.

Lol...... Is that your "scenic route" way of saying that you actually HAVE NO OTHER sources or evidence of those homosexual allegations against Malik Shabazz outside of some "book" you forgot the name of as well as ABSOLUTELY NO sources to back up your allegation that King was involved with men? So you're just gonna go right ahead and put those accusations out there anyway huh???? Well......I'm a little disappointed that you'd do that.

Yes but look how it took a brother like NICK CANNON to come to Kevin's rescue and point out the hypocrisy of some of the same Caucasian women like Chelsea Handler and Amy Schumer who calling Hart "homophobic" but were actually using gay slurs in the past THEMSELVES ! https://www.essence.com/celebrity/nick-cannon-defends-kevin-hart-over-homophobic-tweets/ I have much respect for Nick Cannon for this one. @Chevdove Chev Did you know that the United States and other Western nations are now THREATENING to cut aid and humanitarian resources off from many African and Carribean nations unless they change their policies and start accepting homosexuality and transgenderism in their societies? Homosexuality is being actively promoted toward people of color in both Africa and Asia.

I'll tell you why.....right AFTER you tell me why if Malik (whom you still call "Malcolm") "told it like it was" and was the example of a real man who reminded you of a father figure then why the hell didn't YOU join the movement so that you could either MEET a man like that or support it simply to encourage them to keep producing more men like that. Don't wait 50 years later when Malik has gone off the scene to start praising him as a real "man's man". You had your opportunity to do it when he was alive. The only reason you CLAIM to respect and admire him now is because he's gone and not on this site calling you out on your hypocrisy. As to your other question....... Besides the man you CLAIM to admire so much, Elijah and the NOI produced: Muhammad Ali one of the world's greatest boxers Naim Akbar one of the world's greatest AfroAmerican psychologists Kareem Adul Jabbar one of the world's greatest basketball players Minister Louis Farrakhan who in 1995 organized the largest demonstration ever to be held in Washington D.C. The Black Panthers came out of the Nation of Islam The fact that so many Black people call eachother "brother" and "sister" today is as a result of the Nation of Islam. The fact that so many Black people call eachother "Black" today instead of "colored" or "Negro" is as a result of the influence of the Nation of Islam Much of Rap and Hiphop and artists like the Wu Tang Clan, Ice Cube, and Public Enemy are a product of those who've accepted the teachings of the Nation of Islam. Ungrateful woman...... You need to STOP getting it twisted and recognize that it was ELIJAH MUHAMMAD and his organization who cleaned up the man you CLAIM you admire today.....stopped him from being a pimp, drug dealer, and abuser of women and helped make him the man the world remembers today. If you wanna start condemning organizations that abuse young children, take your ass to the nearest Catholic church and START THERE and perhaps you may have just a little more credibility with me.

Perhaps you're right. I haven't been to Africa yet so I'm not sure how the majority of people on that continent actually look. However going by most of the Africans I've seen and met HERE in the United States....they tend to have nicer skin and better physiques that most of the AfroAmericans I've seen. Keep in mind I keep saying "MOST" because I've seen a lot of beautiful fit AfroAmericans and some busted Africans, lol.

Chev A CHILD SHOULD NOT BE FORCED TO HAVE SEX WITH A GROWN ASS MAN! Hey, I agree 100% And if any man is found to have forced himself on a child sexually he should be punished.

Del It is speculation about whether both Malcolm X and MLK had homosexual experiences. Well WHO is doing the "speculating"? Again, can you provide me a source.....preferably a more credible source than Gay Edgar, lol? I've only read in ONE BOOK that came out decades after Malik's departure that accuses him of some sort of homosexual encounter, and only then it merely IMPLIES that he "went into a room with a man and locked the door for the night" or something of that nature if my memory serves me correct. Other than that book, nothing else. WHERE did you hear about Malik or Martin engaging in HOMOSEXUAL relationships? Chev I can understand part of what you say here! I feel that there is a serious problem with how we as BLACK AMERICANS have been conditioned to go against the BLACK MALE LEADERSHIP! But, on the other hand, if Black men have bought into that old timey DOMINATE BLACK WOMEN SYNDROME, then they do not need to be leaders. When we speak of leadership....the onus is on the leader and what they do. When we speak of domination...the onus is on the followers and it implies that those followers are being FORCED into their position. A good leader doesn't have to FORCE his/her followers into submission. If they are a good leader the people will naturally respect their leadership and will WANT to follow them. Also...... Keep in mind when I think of Black male leadership I don't think of ALL Black men dominating and ruling over ALL Black women. I think of a few QUALIFIED Black men (along with qualified Black women to help) leading and ruling over the majority of both Black males and females with justice. Just like you can't exclude the female, neither can you exclude the male....which is what many are trying to do today. There is no properly leadership without the influence and input of BOTH genders male and female. There must be a balance.

Chev Naaaaah Alice honey, you aren't going to take me down THAT rabbit hole......LOL. I'm going to focus on MY POINT that Elijah Muhammad and the Lost Found Nation of Islam was one of the most effective forces in reforming and advancing the socio-economnic status of the masses of poor Black America in the 20th century and his personal indiscretions will not change nor tarnish that fact. All this about discussion about which age is the most appropriate for marriage and how soon should a female have sex and puberty and menstration and all of that.....I'm not going there. Just like I told our brother Nubian as he tries to engage me over the relevance of African traditions, I'm not going there. I'll sit back and observe, but don't expect me to actively participate.

Well stop screaming...lol. Perhaps I answered too quickly and didn't grasp the full meaning of your question so I will RE-answer it. If that man.....or any man....sexually FORCES himself on my teenaged daughter I would seriously injure or kill that man. Does that answer your question?

Del have people tell me I am quirky, non aggressive , sensitive, good cook, good dancer, psychic, smart. So for a lot of people that makes me gay. Naahhh, I'm not sure if I buy that one. I grew up in an AfroAmerican community and have lived in and interacted with AfroAmerican communities all over the nation so I'm qualified to say that just about the only way a man gets labled "gay" in the Black community (besides actually being gay) is: a) If you exhibit feminine mannerisms commonly associated with females like how you talk, sit, hand gestures, ect... or b) Exhibit behavior that may be perceived as cowardice when challenged like always running from and trying to avoid physical confrontations Now understand that I DON'T agree with these assumptions because a man could be gay as hell and still be maculine and brave, however those traits I outlined above are what usually gets males labled as "gay" in most Black American communities. ....not being smart, knowing how to cook, or reading a lot. I may not have your smarts but my mother taught me how to read at 3 years of age and have loved reading ever since. I was rarely seen without a book even while growing up in the hood and even now but my masculinity was NEVER called into question. So whether it's justified or not, it's how you carry yourself that makes people question your sexual and gender status not how smart you are. Troy I share your observations that AfroAmerican men tend not to socialize with eachother for the heck of it as much as AfroAmerican women do. Especially those of the lower socio-economic classes. And probably for the same reasons me and Del was talking about. Many AfroAmerican men of lower socio-economic status think it's not very masculine for men to bunch up together and just sit around and talk with eachother....and would probably see it as a form of GOSSIP....not realizing the importance of NETWORKING. AfroAmerican men will get together when a CLEAR PURPOSE FOR MEETING is given; like to discuss a business opportunity, to plan some sort of event, or to discuss a particular problem. But to just get together and chit-chat for the hell of it, most brothers aren't into that. There ususally has to be a clear purpose or goal in mind.

Nubian Brother you make many good and valid points, however most of them are IRRELEVANT in relationship to the point I'm making. Cannibalism and whether or not we should adopt ancient African traditions have little to nothing to do with MY POINT that we should judge a man by a balance of his ENTIRE life's work instead of condemning him simply for his infrequent episodes of misconduct. Also, although I don't advocate it as the most ideal system I wouldn't entirely dismiss the idea of arranged marriage. Sometimes your parents and elders know YOU better than you know yourself in your youthful ignorance and immaturity and thus they may know more about what and who is best for you in the long run. Many times I've had older men in my family warn me about the character of certain females I was involved with that I later found they were right on point because they were wise enough and had been around long enough to KNOW better than I had.

Del Yes it is true it's called mores or morals. Which are universal for any given culture and and time. However you can't compare across cultures and temporally it can break down over time. Mores and morals are NOT "universal" across cultures. Different cultures have different ethical and moral codes. Hell, even the SAME culture often will change their morals over time as they advance or decline. Homosexuality was once illegal and condemned in Western culture, now it's generally accepted. 　 You have your own code of what you consider ethical. We clearly inhabit different world's. You're absolutely right about this. As you said I have my OWN code, and you don't. You seem to be using SOMEONE ELSE'S code for your ethics instead of using the brain that The Supreme Being gave you to define your own ethics. 　 　 Nubian As I said earlier, I don't advocate for arranged marriages or marrying girls off to older men, it was more of an attempt to put things into historic perspective; however look at the people who come from those nations and compare the stability and productivity of THEIR families to the stability and productivity of the average AfroAmerican family. Do we have any room to criticize them and how they are doing things? Since integration AfroAmericans collectively have ATTEMPTED to model our family structure after the Caucasian families we see around us hoping it will work for us the same way it has worked for them. It's only led to 50 years of failure, broken families, and dyfunction. You can criticize arranged marriage and the suppression of women in African cultures all day long but African families are in a heck of a lot better shape that most Black American families. Their divorce rate is much lower, their households make more money, and the children function better in school than the average AfroAmerican family. The nuclear family structure CLEARLY doesn't work for us. I personally think was as a people need to sit down and intelligently design a brand new family structure specific to our people and our unique circumstance here in America.

Del Sally Hemnibgs The only people who bring up Sally Hemmings are OTHER BLACK PEOPLE. Most White people sweep that issue under the rug, act as if it never existed, and rarely if ever mention it except when a Black person brings it up and forces them to acknowledge it. See, they protect THEIR own historic figures from shame and ridicule. We should do the same. Again, I ask you WHERE did you hear about Martin sleeping with MEN? Can you show me a source? I haven't even heard that one from the FBI ! Or why aren't there more women dictators. Well, just look at the average AfroAmerican household being governed by the authoritarian rule of the single Black mother. Then ask yourself would the entire world be better off if it were functioning like you see that household, lol.

Delano Lol..... Here you go again speaking for and advocating the issues of Black women. We currently have atlest 3 AfroAmerican women who frequent this forum, yet you reliably seem to feel Black women need YOU as their advocate and spokesperson. My question for you is what exactly is it about THIS particular article that grabbed your attention?

Chev 　 So, it wouldn't matter if he was banging your young daughter, --along with other young girls--just that he did a good job as a contractor working on your house? Great question. Yes, his behavior as it relates to my daughter WOULD be a concern of mine....it it were brought up. I seriously doubt a subject like that would be brought to my or any other customer's attention unless that contractor's competitors or enemies were trying to launch a smear campaign against them. However, even with all of that...... If he was good enough at his job and wealthy enough, depending on my daughter's age I just MIGHT consider whether or not he'd make a good HUSBAND and PROVIDER for my daughter! In the old days, men actually LOOKED to marry their daughters to successful accomplished men with the understanding that they liked sex and would be having sex with them. I'm sure you remember that in the older days some of our grandmothers and great grandmother's were being married BY THEIR FATHERS to older men at 15 and 16 years of age! I don't advocate that, however from their perspective I'm sure they were looking out for their and their children's interests by trying to pair them with men they thought would take care of them. We all must understand something..... In historic Caucasian society sexhas been condemned as nasty and filthy and the worse thing you can do to a person; which is some of the worst insults revolve around giving peope the finger and saying "f-you". This is why historically they have had so many sexually dysfunctional societies. We need to define OUR OWN codes of morality.

Just like Mel, I rest MY case from the previous thread at how Delano and the ladies seem to always take eachothers sides and have eachothers' backs. Like Stevie Wonder said: This is more than a coincidence or a lucky chance...... Del you are confusing your lack of knowledge with information. And YOU are confusing mere information....actually DISINFORMATION....with verified FACTS. Again, I asked you what CREDIBLE sources you got this from and you listed Hoover's FBI. ((shakes head)) Del and Cynque I can't believe you two just sat up there and attempted to legitimize Hoover and his COINTEL program! I see how readily you accept information coming from an organization who at the time ADMITED they were putting out lies and disinformation to sway the public against Civil Rights organizations and it's leaders and divide them against eachother. Mel So much for being a leader when you can't even handle your own family business It's funny how you almost NEVER hear the leadership of poweful and wealthy White men like George Washington or Thomas Jefferson being questioned by White society because of who they slept with. Hell, Trump can sleep with whoever he wants and STILL ends up President with major support. Sometimes I believe some of you are just looking for any excuse to de-legitimize and tear down the authority of Black male leadership. Any lies and accusations are good enough to do the job in your minds.

Here we go with more accusations and allegations revolving around sex. First of all Del who told you MLK was having sex with men...or even other women for that matter? What CREDIBLE sources did you get this information from? The same organization led by a man who is a PROVEN liar and DOCUMENTED homosexual himself? That's the only source I know of who orchestrated the tapes of King's alleged affair that he tried to use to blackmail King into killing himself. Is THAT the source you're going to use Del? What about Corretta his wife who stayed with him until the end? Has SHE admitted that King had affairs with MEN and WOMEN and corroborated these allegations?

Is it asking too much for women to expect men to have good character and integrity? Yes, because depending on the woman asking...THEIR idea of "character" and "intergrity" may be perverted by contemporary society. A man's over all WORKS are the clearest examples of his character and integrity, not who he's having sex with. If pay a contractor to build a house for me, the last thing I'm concerned about is how that man (or woman) has slept with last night, whether or not he cheated on his wife, or whether or not he's a virgin who masturbates 10 times a week. All of that is IRRELEVANT to me. I want to know can he do the job I hired him to do and HOW WELL will he do it.

Ofcourse! And that's how men ARE to be evaluated! You're supposed to use REASON and LOGIC and take a wholistic approach in determining someone's value to their community and not make snap judgements based on emotion or contemporary moral standards. Now you're going to ignore all of the good that man did for Black America and for Black men in particular and label him "predator" just because he's accused of having sex with girls. Come on man. See this is one of the reasons I said you can be counted on to take the sides of the women. Because that's how women think. They tend to base a man's entire worth....not on all of his accomplishments together....but on who he had sex with . "Sure he came up with the cure for cancer, the cure for AIDS, and he prevented World War 3 and saved millions of lives....but I still don't like him." Why not? "Because he CHEATED ON ME!!!" A man can do all types of good and his wife will STILL be ready to put honey on his windshield or burn his clothes because he had sex with someone else besides her, lol. Not saying that cheating on your wife or sex with young ladies you're not married to is ok to do....but hell....put things into perspective when you're dealing with a person. Like Troy said, it's an INTERNAL issue that people inside that organization must grapple with. One of the reasons Malcolm strongly reacted to the accusations against Elijah Muhammad was because he thought Elijah was divine....sent by God. If a man you thought was divine commits what you think is a sinful act.....it often times ignites a moral crisis in your psyche. That's what religion tends to do. I don't have the same problem because I believe Elijah Muhammad was a human being who could and did make mistakes. If they came out tomorrow with some shit on Marcus Garvey it wouldn't phase me one bit because IF I believed it....I'd say the good he did for AfroAmericans far outweighted that bad. Again, when I evaluate people I take ALL of their accomplishments (that I know about) into consideration, and not just the bad or most condemning.

Troy If someone could get a DNA sample we could solve the mystery of where they came from in a few minutes. The West has been trying to do that for years. Several problems arise from that, among which are: 1. Contact with them increases the likelihood of speading of disease. 2. Do you realize that if you have enough samples of a person's DNA you can actually affect THEM with what you do to their DNA samples? Perhaps the North Sentinelese instinctively know this which is why they refuse ALL contact with Caucasians. However there is a video of them having friendly contact with some brown Indian/Asian looking fishermen years ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExdEHU02Zk0 Notice how this so-called "uncivilized" tribe of people who supposedly never had contact with anyone else and were isolated for over 50,000 years knew how to BURY a dead body....as opposed to burning it or casting it at sea. Spears and clubs are pretty much no-brainer weapons, but notice how they also knew how to make bows and arrows with poison tips as weapons.

I've been commenting for years on how much more attractive African people are today than many AfroAmericans. Not just in terms of physical features but in behavior. I work in a place that services a lot of Africans....especially West Africans. I've noticed over the years the differences between AfroAmericans and Africans have not only increased but are stunning in their contrasts. They tend to be slimmer, the men and women better proportioned, the skin clearer, hair blacker and shinier, quicker with math, and they speak English better. Ofcourse this isn't the case with every African vrs AfroAmerican but I'm talking about on average. Many of them look like most of our people USED TO look 30 and 40 years ago when they ate better, used less drugs, and had a different way of life and mentality than today. But perhaps.....and this was pointed out to me by a sister a few weeks ago...most of the Africans I see coming into the United States tend to be on the wealthy or educated side so maybe they look good because they can afford to eat properly and keep themselves up. Not sure what the case is but it seems like many Africans seem to be a "better version" of AfroAmericans.

Troy They are lucky this is not the 15 century because they would have been annihilated or enslaved. Well, the weapons that Caucasian civilization has TODAY seem to be more sophisticated than the weapons they had 500 years ago. As much as they've tried lately....if they aren't being annighilatd or enslaved today, what makes you think they could have done that to them in the past? From what I've read about their history others actually HAVE tried to kill off and enslave them but their were unsuccessful. Hell, the United States government won't even go over there to retrieve the body of one of it's slain citizens! Have you ever heard of that being the case with any other nation in history? 　 　 Chev Firstly though, I want to say, that I feel sad for that man that was killed. He was so young, only 26 years old. But I can't believe that he was made to believe that he could go to these people like that!!! I can't believe that he would try to bring that form of 'Christianity' to these people. According to what I read, it was illegal for him to go there anyway. I believe he was a colonizer who TRIED to go overthere and "soften up" the people for future exploitation by introducing them to Christianity and getting them to STOP serving and believing in thier native spiritual traditions. Had he been successful and had the island believing in and worshiping this: It wouldn't be long before the forced labor, murder, and physical abuses followed. 　 Mel Remember, it was when you wrote that I shouldn't encourage Pioneer1, because I mentioned there might be merit to his theory the original black people were from India. Troy, like many other people was suprised to learn that these people were Black....jet Black. The way the media portrays them they call them "Sentinelese" as if they were Asian, and they also call it an "Indian Island" which leads people not very knowledgable about the Indian subcontinent to believe they may be a tannish colored people.

Del Let me know if any of that is incomprehensible to either @Troy @Pioneer1 or@NubianFellow I am awaiting your responses. My response: Elijah Muhammad was one of the greatest Black men to have been born in the United States. I don't give a shit IF he banged 10,000 young secretaries and was smiling to himself while he was doing it! ...that's between him-them-and The Supreme Being who is the Ultimate Judge. When no one else gave a damn about helping Black men...HE DID. For over 40 years! I don't agree with everything Elijah Muhammad said or did, but as far as I'm concerned the GOOD he's done for Black America outweighs the bad. That's my man.

Lol....... I'm no expert on the North Sentinelese but I'd be willing to wager a pretty substantial amount that there is NO confusion about the role of the men and women among these people; nor is their any confusion over who should be the protectors of the community.