Pioneer1

Cynique My point is results speak louder than claims. Not all missions are accomplished. Well Brother Farrakhan has atleast 2 million witnesses who can prove that his mission to organize a million Black men to march on Washington in 1995 was ACCOMPLISHED. And I'm ONE of those witnesses. I was in "that number" when the saints went marching in....lol. Del Pioneer violin is cool because You like it. A violin is only cool in the hands of one who can PLAY IT WELL...lol. Stop talking foolishness that suggests people who play the violin are playing "White music".

Cynique I don't think Gabourey is ugly. she is just obese. Her face is rather cute; she has nice features and smooth skin and pretty eyes. IMO. Ofcourse it's your opinion. And it's the opinion of a heterosexual female....who IMO (lol) isn't qualified to judge the attractiveness of another woman! What you're doing is an example of what is contributing to the low self esteem and confusion of young Black women all over America. Too many Black women.....straight Black women....are giving their opinions of who THEY feel is or should be considered an attractive Black woman. And when young and impressionable girls take these goofy opinions as facts and find out most Black men don't share them....they end up angry and confused. It's a biological fact that what most women see as "attractive" features, most men don't. I've heard many young girls look at a toned and muscular woman and say they wish they had a body like that because the muscles were attractive....not realizing that it was attractive to THEM but not necessarily to men. As hard and as counter-intuitive as it may seem, I think women should leave the judging of other women's attractiveness to either homosexual women or STRAIGHT MEN.

Cynique Eloquent rhetoric. Farrakhan and i are both the same age. He better hurry up and complete his mission before he croaks- or i do. Doesn't look like he's made a lot of progress. LOL Again, neither you nor I have to AGREE with his beliefs or reasons for why he's doing what he's doing. I'm well past religion and dogmatism. I just got into a heated debate with a Jehovah's Witness a few days ago who was trying to take me all over the bible about how the world is on it's way to ending and what all of the signs are prophecies are coming true. I've been waiting on the world to end since the 1980s.....lol. My point is, we don't have to agree with the man or his doctrine to respect his work nor do you have to agree with it simply to understand why he's doing it.

Troy @Pioneer1, do you really "get a lump in your throat, and feel an urge to put your hand over your heart when the flag goes by or somebody is singing the national anthem?" Nah, I think she's got me confused with Fred Sanford.

Yep, I indeed misread that quote. My apologies. You said SO MUCH foolishness, when you said something that finally made sense.....you threw me off, lol.

Cynique I gotta feeling Mel will vet those remarks you made about Gabourey. My remarks were my opinion. If someone wants to disagree and called Gabourey an icon of beauty they are more than welcomed. If someone wants to say ALL Black women are beautiful regardless as to how they look, they are welcomed to do that as well. But no amount of "girl power" is going to change the laws of nature or convince heterosexual men to stop finding femininity (which Viola exudes) attractive and instead call EVERY Black woman who bumbles down the street beautiful simple because she's Black. Just like being Black doesn't automatically make you ugly, it doesn't automatically make you beautiful either.

Well who is "this America" that you're talking about?

I don't think Farrakhan hates America. He's in a position to leave and go to Africa if he so desires. i just think he claims to hate Americans because this resonates with his guilible followers. Minster Farrakhan believes his mission is a Divine one. To stay here in America and help resurrect Black people and clean them up morally so that God can save us from the inevitable doom of Western civilization. Now whether you or I AGREE with that belief is irrelevant......THAT is the reason he doesn't leave America despite his financial abilities and multitude of social connections all over Africa.

Cynique SMH. i give up on arguing with people who are totally off my wave length, That's why I told you in the other thread to get out of the house! If you'll just take a break and go outside you'll find plenty of species on YOUR wave length. Infact, you can walk around in the grass and I'm pretty sure you'll find a perfect match squirming around...lol.

Miss American't https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/5568-pioneer1/Nothing either one of you say can convert this American to your way of thinking about the "land of broken promises". Don't be so sure. Atleast we got you calling yourself an American so you're halfway there already.....lol. You, in particular apparently can't even offer an alternative argument and take into consideration that you think of America in the intangible abstract and i think of it in the tangible reality. So your arguments just roll off my back just like mine roll off yours. So be it. I admit, Xeon has a better way with words. Whatever.....lol. If someone can come along and articulate my position better than I can, I welcome it with open arms!

Cynique You're the one who needs to get a grip. How ironic that you are the epitome of the cognitive dissonance that you accuse others of. SMH What I find ironic is that you trash Farrakhan even though both you AND him share the same views about America...lol. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xxVNQ_Ed5I If anything, you should be championing the man for his steadfast critique of the United States. Del So is Farakkan playing the Violin for White Folks or Black Folks. In your mind how can you not question Farrakan playing classical violin?!? Because in MY mind.....a mind that works PROPERLY....a man's personal hobbies and what he does for recreation is irrelevant compared with his life's purpose and the work he does in line with it.

Cynique Are you slowly slipping into insanity or something? I'm beginning to think the ROOM you're posting from is full of HOT AIR and it's affecting your reasoning. You're gonna sit up there and SERIOUSLY entertain this foolish backward-ass logic (conjured up by Mr. Confusion himself...lol) that since Farrakhan plays the VIOLIN....that makes his Black nationalism and all the work he's done for the Black community over the past 60 years illegitimate and part of some big game? All of his decades of getting Black men and women off drugs and alcohol, teaching them to eat right and reversing their diabetes and high blood pressure and other ailments, helping them organize and acquire their own businesses, securing Black entertainers....including Michael Jackson, launching "stop the killing" campaigns around the nation and working with rappers to get Black people to love eachother instead of seeing eachother as enemies, going inside the prisons to help GET Black men out of jail and KEEP them out. .....but all of that is just a big smoke screen for an Uncle Tom who really loves White folks and can't wait to put on a tie and play the fiddle for them? Honestly Cynique...... Stop it, you're scaring me....I don't wanna see you like this. Delano...lol....I understand....but YOU??? Maybe you should get out of that hot ass room....lol. Get out of the house and walk around the block a few more times, look down at your toes and RE-discover yourself. Get some fresh air.

I never did trust Bill Maher too much. I'm actually a fan of his....I love watching his show. He's articulate the way he comes at the right and his points are excellent, but every now and then he get's a little careless and the TRUTH slips out about how he really feels about certain things so my antenna is always raised around him. And he's constantly going off on Arabs and talking about how Western culture is superior to Arab and Middle Eastern culture. I remember back in the 90s when Chris Rock was doing his "Black people versus Niggaz" rant on the regular, some White people praised Chris Rock for being one of the few Black entertainers who was brave enough to hold Black people accountable for the negativity in their community. Bill was one of them, and I remember on his show he asked something along the lines of "where is the Arab or Muslim Chris Rock?" Insinuating the Arabs need someone who will get on television and criticize the hell out of their own people like Chris did. So I'm not suprised that he'd say something like this. I look at it like this: We have bigger fish to fry. The man called HIMSELF a house nigger so........let him be one if he wants to.

Xeon It is nonsensical that the best place for black people is America? Oh really? Ok. Name me two places on planet earth where black people, as a group, have a better standard of living, better income, better educated and have much better opportunities in education, entertainment, sports, politics, social mobility, etc. Please do that, I'll wait..... I couldn't have said it better. Infact, I KNEW if you were good for one thing....it's patriotism....lol. Ok...here you go....she's talking all TYPES of shit on this thread: Why don't you work her over a bit in that one too...lol.

Bobbie No one is saying that dark skinned Black women CAN'T wear bright red lipstick. They can wear whatever they want. Personally, I'm saying they SHOULDN'T because it clashes with their skin tone. I guess it depends on what you're wearing it for though. Many Black women claim they don't care what society things of them and they'll wear whatever they feel like, but then turn around and get mad if Black men look at women of other races instead of them.....something you wouldn't do if you really didn't care. If I have to choose between seeing Black women dress and act however they want to without criticizing them.....or offering corrective criticizm on how they should dress and act to be most attractive. My love of them forces me to choose the latter whether they initially understand it or not. Cynique LOL. @Delano Everybody has flaws and prejudices and being true to ourselves involves acknowledging them because that's who we are. The true test is not being false to anyone by pretending to be something we are not. What if someone is pretending to be a psychic who knows the future, but is not and can't? Lol, how should that person view themselves? 　 　 Xeon Viola Davis joins the ranks of black females (e.g., Alek Wek, Missy Elliott, Nina Simone, Uzo Aduba, Gabby Sidibe, et al) who have at some point in their life have faced a tsunami of criticism and hostility for their genetics. Come on man, how are you gonna put Viola Davis and Gabourey Sidibe in the same catagory? Just look at them: Gabourey Sidibe Viola Davis Just about the ONLY thing those two women share in common is their dark skin! Nothing against her as a person, but physically speaking Sidibe's lack of physical atractiveness has NOTHING to do with her dark skin and more to do with her weight, bodily shape, and the shape of her face. Are you telling me that if all of her other physical characteristics remained the same but she was 5 shades lighter then all ofa sudden she would be considered attractive? Look at that Mama June character from Honey BooBoo: She's got all the genetics you speak of. Do you think SHE looks better than a dark skinned Viola?

Delano & Cynique Yes I knew he played the violin. I believe there's an old video of him playing on some entertainment show way back in the 40s or 50s when he was in highschool. I also knew he was a Calypso entertainer back in the day, thanks to the influence of his West Indian mother. They used to call him "The Charmer" and I believe "Calypso Louie" because of his skills. But you two ask is Farrakhan a sell out or irrelevant because he plays the violin...a.k.a. "white people's" music????? I can't believe...... This is so ridiculous I wouldn't even give it time let alone the respect of answering it. Is THIS where the conversation's going now? Who can ask the silliest questions??? Straight up race to the bottom. Why not ask me is he a sell out because he wears a suit and tie.....a.k.a..."white people's clothes"!!!! Instead of wearing suits and speaking to millions under the Lincoln Monument, maybe you two would have more respect for him if he wore a dashiki and pounded on drums on the avenue. Del Stop trying to twist my words or change the subject. No one called violins or classical music (and I LOVE me some BACH) being gay or detrimental to the Black community. You said I was diminishing gay Black men because so many of them were into BALLET. I said I wasn't. I said ENCOURAGING and PROMOTING homosexuality in the Black community is just as detrimental as ENCOURAGING and PROMOTING violence in the Black community. Again, BOTH lead to a reduction in our population but in different ways.

All Let me show you how INTUITION and PERCEPTION works in detecting racism in ways you'd never imagine. When I lived in Atlanta I had a White friend and co-worker from Arizona who had severe marriage problems. His wife abused drugs and according to him cheated on him frequently and openly. According to him she wasn't raised rich but was very spoiled and thought the world revolved around her and she was also immature. They separated and even after all of that HE continued to pay the rent for her apartment, her car note, and even bought her gifts for holidays! When we'd question why he was so devoted and gave her so much money, he constantly played the religious card about him being a family man who upheld his duties and loving his wife and hoping she'd get better.....ect. Now I saw her a couple times because she'd come up to the job looking crazy. She wasn't a bad looking woman and had a very curvy body. Because of this, I suspected....deep down....that he was paying all of her bills and keeping her up and off the street, NOT so much because he actually loved her but more to make sure a Black man with money didn't approach her and either pimp her (she was a drug addict) or just try to get with her. A few other Black men at work kind of said the same thing, but we didn't mention it to him out of respect. Months of this went by, of him complaining about the behavior of this woman and how crazier and crazier she was getting despite the fact that he was still taking care of her. Then one day while he was complaining......a slip! He said, "I don't want her out there on the streets man. She's my wife and you know. This is the ATL and.....she's a WHITE GIRL....so somebody may try to approach her ya know" So he finally revealed the truth! This is Atlanta (a Black city) and she's a WHITE GIRL! That's why he's spending nearly all of his check supporting her and her drug problem rather than risk her ending up on the street. Because it's a Black city and she's a "White girl". And by inference meaning she may end up with a Black person! I knew all the time that this was the REAL reason he did what he did and some other brothers knew it too. But HOW did I know this? He didn't say it until 7 or 8 months later! So how did I know that was his REAL reason?????? INTUITION ! BEING PERCEPTIVE ! Just KNOWING racism and how it operates and makes people do what they do! You get to know people's REAL intentions regardless of what they CLAIM or SAY. But if you go around with your head up your ass never recognizing or suspecting racism ofcourse you'll never notice it. When you keep your antenna up and learn to read between the lines you can spot it lightyears ahead even when seemingly no signs are apparent. And this is just one of THOUSANDS of examples of race based behavior that you almost have to figure out INTUTITIVELY until more evidence reveals itself. But like I said earlier..... Those of our women who are so IN LOVE with that White Jesus (White male prototype) they won't notice this! Because they aren't looking! They are too busy looking at the BLACK MAN as their enemy. So all of the racism done subtly and even some done openly by White men goes right past them.

You are both assuming what Mel and Cynique think and instead of asking their opinion you speak on their behalf. Which is amazingly arrogant. And potentially wrong. I said PERHAPS.....lol.

Del The concept of self definition is lost on you, Pioneer You should learn the difference between "self definition" and "delusion". One is based on logic and reason, the other isn't.

Cynique Any black leader could've done this. Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Julian Bond. If Jesse or Al COULD have done it...then why DIDN'T they? I like Al Sharpton, but I think we all know he's a bit of an opportunist. Does anyone here REALLY believe that if Al could have pulled off an event that big he would have passed up such an opportunity? Come on, stop being silly.....lol. Just hating on Farrakhan for no legitimate reason what so ever. Julian Who?????? Mel Well, I can't disagree with you about YOUR reality. If you don't recognize a push by conservative White women to masculinize their boys and men...... The Republican favorite cheerleader Sara Palin was a clear example of this. .....there's little I can say to convince you. Del I'm not diminishing gay Black men. I think homosexuality.....like violence....is a fact of nature and both have their roles. Again, my position is that the PROMOTION of homosexuality/effeminacy among Black men is just as destructive as the PROMOTION of violence and criminality among Black men. And again, BOTH are genocidal.....one is passive and the other active. Promoting ganster rap encourages Black men to kill themselves. Promoting homosexual behavior among Black men reduces the amount of Black men willing to have sex with Black women...which reduces the population. Promoting effeminate behavior among Black men reduces the desire of Black women to have sex with Black men.....which also reduces the population. Promoting all three will eventually lead to the same end result of reducing the Black population. 　 So my lack of discrimination or lower prejudices enabled me to be the only person to answer Mel's question , "Name two Black Men that have helped women? " To the satisfaction of both Mel and Cynique Either that OR...... In a thread that started off with a noble critique but DEVOLVED into a defacto battle between the sexes.....those two women didn't even see you as part of the opposition, lol. Perhaps instead of placing you with the male side, they subconsciouly saw you as a neutral party.

Cynique Are you implying that because whites didn't think the picture was racist, that they are racist? I'm not. There's any number of reasons they didn't find it racist in the survey: 1. First and foremost, they COULD BE LYING....and know it's racist but choose not to admit it. It's not unusual for Whites do deny the racism they observe or practice you know. 2. They could not be racist but just feel there's nothing wrong with the picture feeling in their own mind this is how a Black woman SHOULD look or WANTS to look. My whole problem with this discussion was that it was critical of a black woman by black men who think she should present herself in accordance with their standards. See....and THAT'S the problem. You're so caught up in checking Black men and not letting US get away with insulting another "sista" that you failed to see the insult and slight WHITE MEN who photographed her or did her make-up MAY have commited against her. Even as you admit how insidious and subtle racism can be, you STILL refuse to believe that the White people of time may have purposely taken an unflattering picture of a Black woman in order to ridicule her! Too often Black women are so caught up in trading licks with Black men and making sure WE don't get away with anything they totally ignore the wrongs of White men and women in their immediate environment. Troy No, I don't feel vindicated. All I was interested in doing was helping people see another perspective. They may disagree with, or not understand, the perspective, but they are no longer ignorant of it. Thinking, opening minded, people can't unsee what they have been shown, their awareness has been raised. I think it worked and now people will probably be more perceptive for more subtle forms of discrimination and insult as a result of this. That can only be a GOOD thing. But this just goes to show you how naive and unperceptive so many of our people are in the first place. For too many, they just go through life with their guards constantly down noticing nothing. Once it's pointed out to them THEN they see a pattern. I'm willing to bet that if you were to do a survey on whether or not Gangster Rap was promoted to demean and demonize Black men you'd yield suprisingly similar results with a large portion of our people denying it and feeling it's just an innocent form of expression totally uninfluenced by subtle racist manipulation. and yes, in America, you CAN find racism in virtually anything, but it is not because we want to. It is simply part and parcel of our culture. From our Whitehouse to our to our local school boards; From our currency to our history books. Standing ovation! They say if you go around looking for problems you'll find them. But that means the problems already existed anyway just waiting to grow until they eventually too big to be ignored. Just like an inspector looks for unsanitary practices and check them early on to maintain the health of the community, perhaps we may be better off if we actually DID go around looking for racism in everything first before we give it the "all clear" sign. People tend to complain that Black folks are always crying racism anyway, so why disappoint them....lol. Mel So while women may not like Ms. Davis look in this photo they don't think it's racist. Whatever. Well wait a minute... Don't forget about the 40% who DO think it's racist! 40% is a substantial number. Trump is in office right NOW with less than 40% of the eligible voters actually voting for him.....so don't discount 40%. "Racism" is a social construct and unless it denies someone of rights, it becomes nuanced and has to be added to other acts to feel its effect. Racism is more than just a social construct. It's a RELIGION. It's a PSYCHOLOGICAL STATE with a huge influence on the laws, economics, and other important affairs in this society. You know, that is a good point!! KNOW it???? Why, if it were a GOOD point she wouldn't even RECOGNIZE it......lol.

Cynique i make becoming a cougar an item on my bucket list Well..... You can just keep me OUT of your cougarish plans until you renounce your heathenous un-patriotic beliefs! Lol, sleeping with YOU would be like sleeping with Tokyo Rose! Keep The Pioneer out of your fantasies......until......

Cynique To me, America is a country, not a person! It is a nation founded by men who You might as well STOP right there....... First you said that America is a COUNTRY and not a person, but then you go on to contradict yourself in the very next sentence by describing how it was founded by PEOPLE! This cognitive dissonant way of thinking is at the heart of your problem. You can't seem to separate America as a whole from SOME of it's negative elements. The same nation that enslaved Blacks and oppressed women is also the SAME nation that fought a war to end chattel race-based slavery and lift up it's Black citizens to be among the world's wealthiest and most educated. It's also been at the forefront of women's rights. All within a span of 200 years this nation has liberated the world's historically oppressed groups and elevated their social and economic status considerably while much older nations are stilled mired in millenia old traditions of slavery, racism, homophobia, and sexism. Where is it written that i can't love my friends while hating where they live? Because: 1. YOU live in the same place your friends live 2. YOU AND YOUR FRIENDS are in part responsible for the conditions in that place That's like you laying on the couch in dirty sweat pants with a half eaten bag of nachos in your lap pointing your finger at your roomates talking about: "Yall'z place is sho' is filthy!" ((crunch crunch)) "Look at all these roaches and shit crawling around." ((crunch smack crunch crunch))

Mel It doesn't. Or at least in my memory most who exhibited this behavior line the walls of society's jails and/or are food for the earth. I agree that the reckless violence and aggression you see some young Black men exhibiting is selfdestructive however...... I notice that for the past 30 years or so conservative White women have been ENCOURAGING White men to be more masculine, aggressive, and take back their manhood. They even push it among little boys with the Dr. Laura's of the world. But I don't see Black females conservatives pushing the same thing. I see to many pushing the slave narrative of, "keep your mouth shut, head down, and do what you're told and you'll be successful" to a lot of Black boys. So a lot of White conservative and Republican women are ENOURAGING masculinity among their boys, while a lot of Black conservative and even liberal women seem to be encouraging conformity among THEIR boys.

Damn this conversation is fluid.......lol. Convictions. When I was younger and religious I had convictions, convinced that there were absolute rights and wrongs. Not as much now. Like my signature suggests..... I'll argue what I believe at the moment, but change tommorow if different facts are presented to me that truly change my beliefs or raise doubts.....and not even be ashamed. Principles. My principles are truth and success in accomplishing my objectives. Someone mentioned learning from older women....... That's how I learned about sex, older girls/women. Girls my age were looking for the pretty boys and didn't care too much for me, so the older women took me in....lol. And speaking of older, getting older has made me better at sex because I don't get quite as excited and it makes me last longer. Before 30, you'd be lucky if you could get 20 good minutes out of me.....lol. I didn't care too much for the missionary position, it seems to be harder on my back. I used to but women up under a pillow to make it easier for them AND me when in that position. Now I agree it's more intimate because you can tongue kiss and stare at eachother, but you can do that before and after....lol. | honestly think that how well a woman likes it depends on how she's made, where her vagina sits on her body. Most white women's vaginas are further up front so sex is easier when you're facing a woman like that, while most Black women's vaginas are further back and tucked away in the butt (how many Black women have you seen with camel-toes????) where it's easier to get to from behind....lol. Quite naturally White "missionaries" who wanted to enforce THEIR way of having sex would force other men and women to have sex the way THEY like to have it....WHEN they had it. Don't forget that during the time of colonialism and missions out of Europe, most Europeans believed that even if you were married sex in ANY position was wrong unless it was done with the expressed purpose of reproduction.