Pioneer1

A lot of White liberals thought he'd be different too. I was living on the West Coast when he was campaigning and got elected back in 2008 and a lot of Whites in places like Seattle and Portland were floating and glowing around that time. They were declaring an END TO THE REAGAN ERA. They had such high hopes because they were expecting that a Black man would really "sock it to the system". People talk about the attempts of Republicans to use Reverend Jeremiah Wright to smear Obama and make him look like a radical racist. But I can assure you and everyone reading that in the Pacific Northwest it had the OPPOSITE EFFECT. White people were blaring the speeches of Rev. Wright all out of thier apartments, studios, and coffee shops....lol. They couldn't get enough of him and his firey sermons. It's like they hadn't been exposed to the Black church before. It told them if you like THAT....then come on back home with me to Detroit and I'll take you to some preachers that would make Jeremiah Wright look like Clarence Thomas, lol.

Delano Not to change the subject, but when you mentioned that you were trying to explain to your biracial children why Black people were mistreated because of thier color and they couldn't understand it....this is one of the reasons I differenciate "Black peple" from "AfroAmericans". Originally, one of the reasons Black people were discriminated against was because of HOW THEY LOOKED. The dark skin, kinky hair, and thick nose and lips of West Africans were seens as badges of dishonor and ugliness in American society for over 2 centuries. When people look at Barak Obama and say they can't understand why so many wouldn't want a "Black" president, they aren't understanding that the typical Black man doesn't look like him (although I must say the President has pretty kinky hair for a mixed person, lol) Troy "If we were still in African who know if a Jazz, or the Blues, or Rap would have emerged at all." You know what, I often think along the same lines when it comes to different things. What if our people had stayed in Africa and had never been enslaved...how would the world be? With regard to music, I suspect that there probably wouldn't be any Jazz like we know it today because most African socities tend to be very traditional and you know those type of societies DON'T LIKE CHANGE. They continue the same traditions for thousands of years. Asian and Native American culutres were the same way. They favored tradition and the ways of the ancestors above that which is commonly called "advancement". Often times, that which is "new" is unwelomed and persecuted.....driven out. If I'm not mistaken though, I thought Jazz itself was founded by New York Jews with their clarinets and other wind instruments.

Delano The akashic records..... Actually this was what I was thinking about when I started this thread questioning where some artists get thier inspiration from. I also believe that there is a difference between ideas and inspiration. It is my belief that ideas are manufactured as a result of mental processes where as inspiration is downloaded from an outside source. Troy The brain is a very powerful "machine". There are many many things we still don't know about it. Man hasn't discovered how to unlock the vast majority of it's chambers to unleash his full potential yet. However I am one who believes that the MIND is still magnificently superior even to the brain and not necessarily connected to it.

I hear what you're saying. Aggression is aggression regardless of whatever name they commit it in or what excuse they give. However, if we don't get to the bottom of WHY someone harmed you, then they or others who think like them may harm you again. Correct? The most qualified detectives and investigators always establish a PROFILE of thier suspects and thier behaivor in order to identify and study them and eventually apprehend them. Now in your response to my fired Asians example, no it's not a funcion of race, but race is a significant and indispensable factor in proving the REASON they were fired. Thus giving the victims a weapon to fight back and defend themselves from further abuse. If you took racial classification out of the equation then the only thing they'd be able to prove was that they were fired (and might not even be able to do that if they didn't get a pink slip), but they couldn't explain why. Which means they and other Asians could keep getting fired without ever being able to prove why and possibly put an end to it. A good analogy to my argument about the importance of racial classification would be the gender/sex classification. Now we know there's a difference between those whom we call males and those whom we call females. Thus we classify and lable them MALES and FEMALES. Just like a difference is made based on race, a difference is also made based on gender/sex. Now suppose we were to take this distinction away and say there is no such thing as gender/sex. Both are the same, no distinction. Can you imagine the billions of dollars and centuries of time that science, medicine, and other institutions would waste trying to figure out why nearly half of the population just couldn't get pregnant! Add GENDER/SEX and it makes sense.....problem solved. Take it away.....and you got a lot of angry women who can't figure out why their clitorises stopped growing! Add racial classification, and you can understand why Europeans went around the globe making slaves of Africans, Indians, and Chinese. They saw themselves as one race, and Africans, Indians, and Chinese as outside of their race. Take it away, and the only thing you have is.......people with big boats and green eyes seem to have such luck! Taking away racial classification won't hurt racists one bit, it'll only hurt the VICTIMS of racism who will no longer be able to explain their pain.

Lol @ "Cablasain" When I first heard that Tiger used that term, I actually thought he was talking about one of his puppies. "Oh, meet Turbo.....he's a Collier and Cablasian mix....got him from the shelter when he was only 6 weeks". You're right that injustice isn't a function of race, but quite often it's definitely a FACTOR. And racial classifcation in terms of....say.....a discrimination law suit....would be a tool used to describe how or why a person was harmed. No term for race, no way to prove racial discrimination. So theoretically a person could fire all the qualified Asian people on a given job because of their race but they would have no grounds to sue because that which they got fired for doesn't legally exist. Trust me mah brutha..... Even if all classifications of race were removed from goverment and public vocabulary, White men will still know who THEY are, know who YOU are, and find a way to keep the distinction. Actually, it's not just White men but men in general tend to separate people into groups. All men do it to a certain extent. While women tend to incorporate and include, it's the nature of a man's mind to divide and compartmentalize as a way to determine who belongs where in society. Establish status and hierarchy. And also determine who is the potential enemy.

Lol...... You know what bro, I've been saying what you said about property taxes for almost as long as what I said about mortgages I was actually about to post that and forgot about I OWN my car. I don't have to keep paying property taxes on it to keep it. I OWN my clothes and furniture. I don't have to keep paying taxes on it. How do you pay off a house and still have it taken away from you because you couldn't keep paying for the right to live in something you've already bought? Some argue that it's not the house you're paying taxes on but the land the house sits on. But I haven't heard of any cases where people who couldn't keep up the taxes being able to dig up their house and take it with them leaving the earthworms wiggling in the ground, lol. It's called a MORT-gage for a reason. It was originally designed so that a person would be paying on it for so long that they'd die (mort) before it could be paid off, thus the debt would pass on to the surviving family. Seems to me if a person takes out a mortgage on a home and pays 50% of it off before having to foreclose.....alteast half of the house still belongs to them! But no, the bank actually takes the ENTIRE house back and re-sells it to someone else. The bank can take a $100,000 home and make about $300,000 or $400,000 by mortgaging and foreclosing over and over again to high risk families whom they KNOW won't be able to pay it off.

Now this is where I sound ultra conservative.... I'd say this shooting, like the shootings in Colorado and Oregon are "exceptions" in otherwise peaceful suburban environments where law, order, and civility tend to be the rule. As much as they seem to be occuring lately, they're still relatively isolated as compared to the warfare seen in some of the ghettoes of America where children seem to be shot and killed on a daily basis. People are scratching their heads trying to figure out what made this seemingly peaceful quiet kid snap. They're saying most likely it's a mixture of mental illness and the availability of guns. But in the ghetto, people KNOW why so many children are getting killed (lawlessness, declining morals, broken families, lack of decent employment) but few....including the police...seem to be concerned enough to impliment the massive changes needed to resolve the problem. If anyone doubts what I'm saying.....find an average group of Black men and try to sit them down for 5 minutes to talk about the problems afflicting the "hood" and what we can do about it. Wealthy White people would re-write the constitutions or dismantle the government all together if their children were getting slaughtered across the nation by gang and drug violence the way so many Black and Brown children have been. It's sad to say, but I've came to the conclusion that many of our people simply don't care as much. Too many are so concerned about their own personal situations that they can't look beyond their noses to see the greater problems afflicting the community as a whole.

Quenton is just filling a void that was left open by Black directors. You have talented Black directors like Spike Lee and Tyler Perry who have the ability to produce docu-tainment as good as Tarantino or Spielberg but they figure that Black people won't go to see it in huge numbers so they stick to the 'hood or drag queen movies. Keep in mind when I talk about seeing dark skinned Black people loving eachother, I'm not just talking about love in the sense of "amore" but love in the sense of "eros". You rarely see two Black people engaged in powerful but positive sexual activity in the movies or on television anymore. Not like the days of Shaft or Black Ceasar where you saw dark skinned sistaz with kinky hair naked and being loved. I'm not talking about some rap video where a woman dresses like a prostitute and demeans herself with a bottle of champaign and STILL doesn't show any nudity. I'm talking artistically beautiful but still erotic sexuality. Where are the Pam Griers or Gloria Hendrys of today? Black women who are willing to get naked and show their brown bodies on the screen unashamed? There was a time in the 80s and 90s where White actresses refused to do nude scenes because they thought it was demeaning. But that didn't last long, now every one of them are showing thier breasts and many are showing their pubic hair. Every one of them are putting pictures of their naked selves out on the internet to get publicity. The entire world gets to see the beauty and sensuality of the White woman....what about the Black, Yellow, or Brown woman? And what about the Black men? How many Black men are being called "hot" or make it to the list of 10 or 25 "hottest hunks in Hollywood" now? I've been warning Black men for years that while they're getting fat and sloppy thinking that there'd never be a time when a sista would look past them for a "white boy".....the "white boy" is at the gymn. Some may giggle or shake their heads at what I'm saying but there's strong psychology in seeing people who LOOK LIKE YOU engaged in positive sexual activity on television or in the movies because it re-enforces the fact that you are a human being who needs love and can be loved. That you too can be a symbol of attraction. Our people both male and female need to KNOW that their bodies are attractive and lovable, not just objects of ridicule or exploitation.

Home "Ownership" Keeping People Poor? Comes as no suprise to me because...... You all ready for this???? THEY DIDNT' REALLY OWN THE HOMES IN THE FIRST DAMN PLACE!! You don't "own" a home until the mortgage is paid off. I figured this out in the 6th grade. Most peole who lost their homes during the so-called "mortgage meltdown" were either still paying on their mortgages when they lost their jobs and were unable to keep up with the notes; or they had taken out loans on homes that were owned and payed for and got caught with their pants down. But one of the silliest things that people were doing that even to this day I'm not sure whether to blame on illiteracy or just plain stupidity was taking those "adjustable rate" mortgages. I knew some people with Master's degrees who still went for the bait and got caught up.

Jenny I've noticed a slow but steady deterioration of movies showing real genuine Black love. Back in the late 60s and 70s you would see realist looking and usually dark skinned Black men and women in the movies and on television making love to eachother, kissing, and showing signs of affection. Around the time of the 80s the Black actors and actresses started getting lighter and lighter. In the 90s you rarely saw 2 dark skinned Black people loving eachother in major movies. You either saw 2 White people or a White person with a very light usually mixed Black person. You didn't see ANY dark skinned Black women as objects of love and desire, and other than Wesley Snipes or Denzel Washington you rarely saw Black men in those positions either. If you are old enough to notice, there is less Black love and lower self esteem among the Black youth of today than 40 years ago. I believe it's because they haven't seen many images of themselves as beautiful and desirable in the media today as in the past. Troy I hear you on the unfounded criticism of the Cosby Show. I grew up in Detroit where there were plenty of middle-class and even a few wealthy Black neigbhorhoods. I didn't see anything unusual about the show. I used to hear and read about how "unrealistic" it was and couldn't figure out what people were talking about as I saw plenty of wealthy Black families who went to the opera, museums, traveled, ect..... It wasn't until I got older and started traveling around the nation that I realized that in most places Black people didn't live as good as they did in placed like Detroit, Chicago, and Atlanta where there are large concentrations of Black wealth. I went to the West Coast and parts of the midwest and would see droves of Black people on the street begging while White people in suits with briefcases would walk by them smiling and tossing change. I'd point this out to other Black people and they'd smile and shrug like there was nothing unusual about it. But that was 20 years ago. Sadly, even in cities like Chicago and Atlanta that were traditional strongholds for the Black middleclass....the many of the youth are losing much of what their grandparents fought for and earned. If I were a betting man, I'd be willing to bet of the 22% of Black boys who graduated from highschool on time the majority of THEM were probably from African and Carribean families.

I'm reading 2 books right now: 1. A collection of essays by Emerson 2. Russell Simmons' book "Do You". I didn't know the brother practiced Yoga.

Troy Ofcourse I picked the definitions that supported what I'm saying, lol. Never the less the definition DOES exist. I didn't make it up, therefore it is likely a fact and further evidence that I used to support my argument that race is real. I agree totally that we should treat people on the basis of fairness and justice. Business discovered this a long time ago. But we still need classifications if not to point out injustices in society then atleast to give the police a description of a suspect. If we didn't have race, then how would we describe a White man who snatched a purse? "It was a pinkish-looking man with a skinny nose and stringy yellow hair, he went dat-a-way" Now I'll continue to say that perhaps the CLASSIFICATIONS and DIVISIONS of race are bogus man made concoctions....which is why they keep changing every decade as you correctly pointed out. But the fact that race exists isn't bogus. It's a biological and undeniable fact supported not only socially but scientifically and academically. Now the case for Obama is simple, he's both Black AND White. That's his race....mixed. However ethnicly speaking he's an AFRO-American, meaning an American of African descent.

"Anyway, please leave Honey Boo Boo alone. She's only a child." Someone should tell the producers at TLC this. Stop the child exploitation. The reason I posted that article was to illustrate how some White men are ready to stand and defend the honor of thier society and the image of their people. I ask the questions...... Where are the Black men who are just as morally outraged at all these racist talk shows like Jerry Springer and Kyle Jeremy who routinely seek to humilitate our people before the world? Where are the Black women who rather than finding this garbage entertaining would be just as outraged and would clap for, praise, and massage the back of the strong brothers who stand up to defend her honor and the collective honor of thier community?

Let's not forget the role all these chemicals and preservatives they are putting in so many foods today are playing in the development of women of all races but particularly in women of color. Whether one goes to the 'hood, the barrio, or the reservation....it doesn't take long to notice that the same foods being eaten by white women seem to affect Black, Brown, and Native women to a far greater extent regardless of the amount they're eating. The same foods that are causing so many women to be obese most likely threw them into puberty at an early age. I don't give a damn how much she eats, no woman naturally weighs 400+ pounds. If she does, there's something wrong with her metabolism or there's something in the food she's eating that's not breaking down properly in her body.

Troy, rather than destroy the integrity of Nah's thread on "thickness" I figured I'd start this thread to continue our discussion on race and whether or not it's a social construct. "Pioneer, once the human genome was sequenced it became plain to everyone that there is only one race of people on planet earth. Race is indeed, an arbitrary social construct. In fact I wish our government would get out of the business of using it." I believe that humans are all of the same SPECIES, but definately of different races/breeds. Let's examine the 2 terms seperately out of the context of this conversation: Social Construct: a social mechanism, phenomenon, or category created and developed by society; a perception of an individual, group, or idea that is 'constructed' through cultural or social practice http://dictionary.re...ocial construct According to this definition, a social construct is something that is both created and developed by society. In other words, God or "nature" if you will didn't create it but it was created as a result of human ideology. Race: 2 a : a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock b : a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics 3 a : an actually or potentially interbreeding group within a species; also : a taxonomic category (as a subspecies) representing such a group b : breed c : a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits http://www.merriam-w...dictionary/race According to definition 2a , 3b, and 3c.....race is indeed about PHYSICAL traits, things that are not created from the mind of humans but are genetic in origin and come from God Himself or atleast nature. Now what you said about the government getting out of the business of distinguising races....I actually entertained that idea for a while. However this is the common practice in a lot of Latin American nations, especially Cuba. Where they just say everyone is "Cubano" or "Puerto Ricano"....in other words, they seek to unite their nation of the basis of culture rather than race. The problem with this is, in a society where race isn't definied it's too easy to practice racial discrimination without a way to prove it. In many if not most Latin American nations, people of African and Indian decent are heavily discriminated against but since they don't consider themselves Black or Indian but "Columbian" or "Venuzualan" they don't have the words to even formulate let alone articulate their argument. Since "race" doesn't exist in those countries, those who suffer from a non-existant "racism" are forced to suffer in silence.

Cynique "It has been further suggested that songs, in particular, already exist in the nether world and are just waiting to be "downloaded" into this one by the artist who taps into them." Exactly! This is what I'm trying to get at. I didn't want to get too spiritual too quickly but since you introduced it, I've read so many books such as those by Swedenborg who claimed this. Many artists claim to get inspiration by using drugs, and I wonder if these drugs aren't used as a catalyst to bridge them to the "source".

Excellent observations! It appears that Hollywood is producing Black women/White men relationships on television and in the movies far out of proportion with reality, and I don't think this is an accident. For a long time in America, conquering the Black woman mentally and gaining her "love" (as opposed to the outright rape and sexual exploitation of Black women that had been going on for centuries) has been considered the last frontier for White men. They got the White woman, the Asian woman (infact, the most common interracial relationships I see in America today are White men with Asian women, lol) and even the Latina woman to a certain extent....but the Black woman has been quite elusive. Perhaps this is an attempt to show her what she's been missing out on, lol. I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed that "news" organizations like like CNN and ABC have actually done entire shows asking Black women why they have remained so loyal to Black men and why don't they explore their options. I haven't seen shows like this targeted to any other racial group of women.

Cynique I've also heard the view that race is some sort of artificial "social construct".....lol. In my opinion that view is about as valid as saying that sex/gender itself is a "social/political construct" or that childhood and adulthood is socially constructed. Race is not only real (as most 3 year olds and even some animals even animals can recognize), but it's biological and hereditary. Maybe the CLASSIFICATIONS are off but the fact that race is real is undeniable in my opinion. A Wolof in Senegal may look different than a Masai from Kenya but they are far more similar to eachother than a blonde blue eyed Teuton from Germany. As quiet as it's kept among many East Africans in places like Somalia and Ethiopia, there is evidence that even many of those people are "mixed" with early Semitic ancestors who migrated down there from the Middle East. There is still friction between the darker skinned Bantus of Ethiopia and Somalia with thier kinky hair and thick noses and the lighter skinned curlier headed peoples we typically associate with those nations. The Bantu people who tend to live in the mountains claim they are the original people of the area and these other people are migrants from the North who came down centuries ago and began making slaves of their people. If Whites did come from a darker race of ancestors these ancestors probably would most likely be from the Indian sub-continent where we find Blacks like the Tamils with thier straight hair and keen features, traits you find predominate in the White race.

I have a question for writers............ I've heard many times from artists whether they are musicians, painters, or writers, that the best among them have been known to get much of their inspiration from some mysterious place "other than themselves". They are said to get them from some sort of unknown spiritual or cosmic realm that flashes ideas in their minds through dreams, visions, and other modes. How much is this the case from your personal experiences and from observing other artists that you know? Does much of your work come in a "flash" of inspiration from some unknown spiritual place?

Troy Yes, most Africans I know tend to be very successful. They tend to be very family oriented which provides a decent and stable environment for children to excel in academically. I remember at the highschool I went to it was over 75% Black but there were only a few African (West African) students there and they were not only on the honor roll but were on debate teams and involved in just about every progressive program the school had to offer, lol. It's interesting to me how Africans and West Indians are constantly being left out when they want to talk about race and test scores in America. Most African students do just as well as Koreans, Indians, and other so-called "model minorities" that society likes to point to as examples of achievement. Speaking of diet and obesity, I really think that when Black people adopt a diet that is more native to us biologically (less animal fats and more fresh fruits and vegetables and fish) I think it helps us not only physically but intellectually.

You're so right about how so many people love this trash. I think it's because some people have so much turmoil in thier lives and have such low self worth that they actually find enjoyment in others pain. They find entertainment in watching people whose lives are more despicable than thier own. I respect freedom of speech and expression but I also believe that these type of shows keep lowering the bar.....lowering the standard so that those who don't want to do anything in the first place now have an excuse to settle down lower and lower and lower. Kind of like the baggy pants and long white t-shirts was a blessing for people who were sloppy and too lazy to dress up in the first place, lol. 35 years ago if a person wasn't married with children, a house, and a steady job by age 40 society thought something was wrong with them. If they just lived in an apartment as opposed to a house......older relatives would be pulling them to the side and asking them when will they finally get thier life together. Now you have single mothers raising thier children in cheap motel rooms and healthy young men who bounce from thier mother's house to thier sister's home to a girlfriend's home sleeping on couches and raiding the fridge before they get kicked out. They think this behavior is not only acceptable but normal because they along with millions of other Americans tune in and see it on a daily basis from these talk shows.

You know, I actually read "through" her book years ago when it first came out and admittedly some of what I found in it was quite shocking, but it also had a lot of truth in it. Especially with regards to family and child rearing. IF this is the same book I'm thinking about. She may have another book out about how to raise Black children....... She talked about things that I've actually seen growing up but for some reason didn't make their way in mainstream textbooks on parenting and child psychology from White experts. Like how Black children will sometimes play games and test you to see how mentally strong you are and how far they can go with you. I've seen Black children do this at home with their parents, I've also seen them do this at school with teachers and other authority figures and I even did it myself occasionaly, although not to my parents. It's as if it's a big psychological game well thought out in their young minds and they'll laugh and grin about getting away with punking out an adult if allowed to do so. I just don't read of this type of behavior or any solution to it in mostly White text books. So far, the only other place I read of this has been in a couple of ASIAN books on parenting. And Asians themselves have told me that Black children and Asian children start off similar to eachother in playing these little mind games in the family and in society, but Asian parents have well established systems for checking them and properly correcting children before they get set in the wayward ways. Or sometimes they may teach the child how to turn around and use that cleverness in a more constructive way such as business.

Troy Lol.... Yes sir, I love me some short women fat or slim. If me and you are sitting somewhere chilling one day and a fat midget toddles by.....you better hurry up and find something else to do for the rest of the day! Regarding bone density, I don't make the claim that Black women have denser bones based on visual observation. My claims are based on the science of the medical community that confirms this: http://www.niams.nih.gov/Health_Info/Bone/Osteoporosis/Background/default.asp http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/82/2/429.full http://depts.washington.edu/bonebio/bonAbout/race.html I haven't been to Africa but I've met quite a few African women from all over the continent and although East African women tend to have a slimmed bone structure and straighter hair than West Africans, compared to White women thier butts are still bigger and higher and thier hair strands are still "thick" like other Black women even if the structure of the hair is straight or wavey like White women's. Now ofcourse there are exceptions. I used to live in Pennsylvania near an Amish community where those Whites don't believe in altering their bodies or hair in any way and you'll see some with blonde but kinky almost nappy hair.....lol. I've seen jet Black people with naturally green eyes. So ofcourse if the genes are there you'll find Black women with narrow hips and flat butts as you're find Black people who are actually White (albino) or have blue eyes. But that's not the norm from my observations. I agree with you about the lack of exercise and poor diet being a major problem and we shouldn't justify it by calling people "healthy" when often times they are far from it. Some of our people are masters at making excuses for inexcusable behavior. 　 Nah'Sun If you wanna keep it funky, all races come from Black people The first Asians like the Dravidians and the "Untouchables" of India as well as the early Native Americans were documented as Negroid But that’s for another discussion Well that's another good discussion that I'd like to participate in if it ever jumps off because I've been entertaining this idea for years. I say there are actually 2 Black races. 2 separate races, but both Black in color....one from the African continent and the other from the Indian subcontinent. I believe that the Elamites and other original peoples who populated the Middle East before Caucasian tribes came down and mixed with or replaced them were Blacks either of the Indian Dravidian/Tamil type or of a Black type that may have been the common ancestor of BOTH races of Blacks African and Indian before they split and went their separate ways.

Cynique Yes, I agree with you Pioneer - to a degree. Mexicans are managing to survive by using the system, but they are not beating it as they hover together, afraid to assert themselves, working at low wage jobs, living in constant fear of immigration authorities. The same is true of black people, when it comes to getting over on the welfare plantation. But anytime you are totally dependent on the charity of the government, then you are at its mercy. And this is what The System is designed to do. The underclasses wield no power. They are enslaved to the perks that rob them of their initiative. Not only that, but I've learned that there are certain spiritual laws that can not be violated without there usually being a consequence. If you look at people are are always begging, borrowing, and trying to get something for nothing....they're are alway broke and don't have anything; which keeps them in that position. I've noticed that they rarely give charity while those who are the wealthiest tend to give plenty of thier own will. Too many people of color both AfroAmerican and Latino are on the receiving end of charity and other people's good will thinking their "slick" and getting over when they are really conditioning themselves and their children to be scavengers living on the bottom of society. Yes, shiftlessness does plague the black race. And since nobody knows how to eliminate it, disillusionment sets in. Everybody shoots me down when I say this, but I still think most of our problems stem back to the wanton breeding on the part of young single black women and their poor parenting skills. Most people want to blame it on something else. Yes sir, I believe immorality is the greatest problem in the Black community today and all the other problems STEM from this main problem. Take illiteracy and poor academic scores for example..... It's not like Black students spend 10 hours a day sweating over text books at the dining room table trying to learn math and science but just can't comprehend the words or remember them. Most don't even bother to study at all thinking they learned all they need to know in the class room; and most of those who do bother to study have the radio or television on or are on the phone and aren't focused enough to study in silence the way most Korean and Indian students do. And these habits show up in poor grades and lack of higher degrees. This problem doesn't come from a slow brain which is an intellectual problem, but from laziness and misplaced priorities which is an ethical/moral problem of personal character. As long as immorality and unethical behavior in the AfroAmerican community is supported and encouraged, expect the problems to continue.

Troy Pioneer, that last statement about African and middle eastern women's bone structures being suitable to handling more weight in a healthy way is interesting. Where did you learn this? I wonder if this "idea" is were "big boned" came from? I learned this simply from observation having traveled around the nation and in some countries outside the nation. I've observed that women of African (which includes a large portion of Latino women) and Middle Eastern (many of whom are of African ancestry themselves) decent tend to have wider hips, larger butts, and denser bones than White women and East Asian (Chines, Korean, Japanese) women regardless of diet, exercise, ect.... It's just genetic. Although the term "big boned" is often used as an excuse by many women to justify being fat and even obese when clearly it's more than their "bones" that's big....lol...there is some truth to this. Even most doctors agree that Black and Arab women are less likely to get osteoporosis due to their denser bone structure. In all seriousness, we need to be very careful about how we view excess weight, without boring you with stats. Diabetes, and heart disease, runs rampant in our community. While we embrace thinckness (whatever that means), we also embracing serious health issues... To be honest with you, I like SHORT women.....fat or skinny, lol. My preferences tend to go more towards height than weight, so I'm not putting that much money down on this fight anyway, just my 2 cents. However, from my observations when Black women get too slim or get as slim as White women can get....often times they tend to be too "hard" or muscular. I'd rather a woman have a soft round belly than a hard six-pack. I'd rather her have soft arms with just a little flab on them than muscular biceps with that vein running through them.