Pioneer1

"My only issue is that it seems like Hollywood are only allowing Caucasians to direct or tell our stories with a large marketing and promotional budget (Amistad, The Help, The Color Purple, etc.) even when they are labeled as historical fiction" -Nah Sun "Tyler Perry and Bob Johnson are not too concerned about how Black are portrayed in the media and have focused in entertaining folks and they have become exceedingly wealthy as a consequence. But they have also borne the brunt of harsh criticism from the Black community." -Troy "That's the problem Negroes always wanna be entertained instead of enlightened...LOL When you're entertained too much, you lose the point behind the laughter" -Nah Sun Both of you brothers make excellent points! Which comes first, the chicken or the egg? Black directors and actors often complain about their people would rather be entertained than educated, but perhaps they should put out more educational work and keep flooding the industry with it until a change is FORCED in the minds of most of our people. Racists in the media FORCED a mental diet of foolishness on our community with all these movies showing Black men as criminals, buffoons, down-low homosexuals, ect......along with these racist talk shows that are on several times a day seemingly doing the same thing unchallenged. So in order to change that mentality another diet has to be FORCED back on them going in the opposite direction. I have to say that outside of "Malcolm X" and "Miracle and St Anne" I've been quite disappointed in much of Spike Lee's work. Most of the movies he's directed seems to be "hood" type movies that...granted....tend to have more realism to them than the average hood movie, but still exposes too much of the negativity of the Black community without giving the audience any real solutions to the problems. He may seem pro-black on the surface, but if you really analyze much of his work most of the Black characters in his film are crazy and criminal/immoral and most of the White characters are innocent "victims". Also, he seems to be introducing "secrets" of the Black community into the mainstream. I saw a movie called "Pariah" that was produced by Spike Lee a couple years ago and it was about a young Black girl's experience in the lesbian community. Then he has a movie that is supposed to come out (or maybe already has) called "Red Hook Summer" that supposedly shows preacher molesting a little Black boy. Why would HE put crap like that out? Why can't he work on a movie...like you said about the Haitian revolution, or about Nat Turner; why does he have to be the one to show the world what's happening in the hood? There's enough directors and authors both White and Black ready and willing to expose the immorality found in the Black community, we need Black directors to be the vanguards and standard bearers of Black progress. Like I said before, I LOVE Django. I think it was a good movie that finally showed a Black man in a MASCULINE role. Jamie Foxx was a straight up and unapoligetic MAN in that movie, and that's what we need more of in my opinion. I really wish it had been written, produced, and directed by a Black man. Unfortunately too many Black artists (including Black male artists) don't seem to be comfortable expressing Black masculinity on the big screen. They limit THEMSELVES by claiming "America" doesn't want to see a real Black man kicking ass in the movies. They need to be reminded that "America" voted for an Afroamerican MAN to be president with the HOPE that he would kick more ass! They impose these foolish limits on themselves. America was much more racist and hostile in the late 60s and early 70s than it is today and Black men boldy put out films that THEY wanted to put out like Shaft and 3 the Hard Way, not just what they thought would sell the most. Not only did these movies bolster the selfesteem of our people at the same time but the actors still made money.

Excellent commentary!

I haven't heard any Black men say that Eminem raps about the realz, lol. That usually comes from other White men. He raps about hating his mother-n-law, killing people in bizzare ways, and taking a shit while getting blow jobs......things I haven't heard too many Black men rap about, lol. Every now and then he get's political, but most of his work is just crazy and loony representing a working class young White culture. I think Biggie was a good rapper just like Tupac, but I think the media hyped both of them up a little too much and made them the "poster children" for the golden age of rap. Both of them share SOME responsibility for much of the thuggish lifestyle that has destroyed the families and even lives of so many Black people in America today. Tupac's mother being in the Panthers doesn't make HIM positive or pro-black. They...along with many other rappers including my favorite Ice Cube....helped to make crime and immorality seem acceptable to too many Black youth. Public Enemy was my favorite rap group, but I've always been somewhat political. In my opinion, Ice Cube is the best rapper so far. Gotta give it to Cube...lol. But I also must say that him along with the rest of NWA was part of the problem to, hey.....the truth is the truth. At some point all of the rappers who contributed to the crime and immorality (and obviously there were many others besides them) of the Black community MUST be held to some sort of account for thier words and deeds.

The only reason a person would use such an uncommon word as "erudite" in a conversation is if they were trying to be just that, lol. Delano I personally don't find any inspiration in criticism. I often find it CORRECTING, and don't necessarily dismiss it.....but someone else's critique doesn't necessarily inspire me to any new ideas. Regardless as to the REASON someone may do it, whenever someone criticizes me or something I've said/done I've learned to first examine their critique to see if there is any truth in it. If there is....I try to correct it. If not......I decided whether to ignore it or launch a counter-attack.

Troy Absolutely First of all, anyone familiar with the Detroit area knows that 8 Mile is not the "hood", lol. It's a boulevard that divides the city of Detroit from it's northern suburbs. The only place White people can be found in large numbers in Detroit is downtown attending sports games. The rest of the city is a Black as Nairobi Kenya, lol. Again, Eminem is not from the city (and neither is Kid Rock). The movie was basically a fictional one which he even admits he bases "loosely" on his life designed to give Eminem some "street cred". And again, I acknowledge that Eminem is a good rapper. He definately has talent, I wouldn't disagree with anyone on that. But just like when it comes to a White man who can dance, or sing, or knows how to dress just a little bit better than what we're used to seeing.... It seems that if a White man shows any type of talent some of our people want to worship him and call him the "best". They cheer him on like that character Eddie Murphy played in Coming to America, "Gotdamn dat boy can sang!!!" I've been seeing this since I was a kid in school. Whether we were playing basketball or the dozens, if a White boy just showed a little bit of talent you'd hear "oooohs" and "aaaaahs". "Man that White boy can get down!" If a Black kid were to give the exact same performance....... At best he'd get an "Yeah, he aaaight" or "So what, my little brother can do that shit." A lot of our people want to really see White people actually "be better".

Cynique After reading some of your other posts and seeing how that (( R )) rattling peanut you call a brain operates, I have a pretty good idea of where you're getting YOUR "inspiration"....and what brand you're using, lol. ((As the back-n-forth between Pioneer and Cynique tips the balance from more logical than emotional - to more emotional and down right immature; I feel it's a good time to leave that foolishness behind and continue the march forward towards enlightenment)) Where Does Your Inspiration Come From? I asked where does your inspiration come from. Let us look at this word: INSPIRATION It was brought to us from the Latin word "inspiratio" Meaning to literally "enter the spirit" or fill with the spirit. In reality, all TRUE inspiration must come from an OUTSIDE SOURCE. You don't inspire yourself, nor does your inspiration come from the mechanics of your own brain. If it is inspiration, it must come from a source(s) outside of you.

Administrator ((Pioneer takes off his glasses and rests them on the desk and sighs.....)) Ok..... I said that Italian Americans tend to share more characteristics with AfroAmericans than other Whites.....and you argued this. I say AfroAmericans tend to favor loud colored clothing and spicy foods....and you argue this. I say females tend to be more self-concious about their body image than males....and you even argued THIS. Now, that's enough to make even Dr Phil sit back and stretch his eyes in amazement. Man, are you just trying to be contrary or something? You're disagreeing with things that are commonly known to MOST Black Americans over 30. Things that certainly no other Black person I'VE talked to disagreed with me about. Who goes through life making absolutely no generalizations or assumptions about anything? When you first met your wife, did you first ask her was she "straight or gay" before proceeding with any relationship? Certainly a prudent brother like yourself who doesn't like to make presumptuous generalizations about anyone or anything wouldn't just ASSUME the woman you found attractive also found men attractive. You most certainly had to ask her THAT question didn't you?

"Brandy" certainly is a fine girl ain't she.....lol But you really should ease up on her. Anyway, a clip of the brother on Bill Maher's show:

Eminem is a talented rap artist, no denying that but he's nowhere NEAR the "best rapper", lol. DJ Quik, Chuck D, even Nelly would eat his behind alive. My problem with him is he claims to be from Detroit when he's not. He was born and mostly raised in Kansas City and moved to the SUBURBS of Detroit when he was 13. He's a White kid from the suburbs who just came to the city to learn rap from Black kids and profited off of it.

If you want to be a leader....... Uh, if you want people to follow you....... Then you have to be willing and able to PROTECT them and help them when they get in trouble. The executives of CBS told Arsenio Hall not to bring Farrkhan on and he defied them and did it anyway as an act of bold courage. And who came to his defense when he got fired? Who offered him another job when he got kicked off of CBS? Now let me bring these questions right up to date with our beautiful brother in the White House. Now many of his fiercest supporters are always asking why don't more people stand up and support the president and encourage him. They say he wants to do this and do that, but he needs the American people to get behind him and have his "back" when he makes these moves. Well when union workers and college kids show up at city halls and state capitals to protest right-wing policies and end up getting pepper sprayed and locked up....where is the Federal support? Why doesn't Obama send a team of lawyers and maybe even some federal officers to swoop down and investigate and protect HIS supporters instead of letting these Republican governors run roughshod all over the damn place? Few people will stand up and put their ass on the line for a leader who won't support them and protect them.

Arsenio Hall had Farrakhan on his show. Remember what happened to him.

Well, it wasn't a theory....it was an observation. However you answered my question, so I'm satisfied. I'm not in a position to tell you what you've experienced or observed with your own eyes. BTW, if you think that Black people having an affinity for loud colored clothing is just a mere stereotype, obviously you don't know who Steve Harvey is.

I'm mature enough to accept people on their own term; and I'm analytical enough in my thinking to extract the value from people I may disagree with if it serves a particular purpose. Now I STRONGLY disagree with Bill Maher's positon as an atheist and actually find some of his racial commentary rather insulting, however when it comes to certain political issues he's dead on point and makes his point like few others can. Should I boycott his show and refuse to listen to anything he has to say because we disagree on theological grounds? Should I throw the iron out with the rest of the ore, or should I extract what I need and make use of it?

Actually, I think it's called COGNITIVE DISSONANCE

Lawwwd, lawwd, lawwd.........lol. That projector she's using is so worn out and raggedy, no wonder she has a hard time trying to focus which one of the images she's trying to project on people. Angela Davis Cynique Oh, so now you're miss "pro-Black - don't lock my peops down" right???? Trying to equate believing in God with oppressing the Black man, lol. Well are you a FEMINIST or BLACK REVOLUTIONARY? Again.....you really need to make up your mind sweetie, you can't be both because feminism came straight out of the same back of tricks that atheism came out of. Just like atheism was thrown out there to destroy the morality and spirituality of Black people; feminism was also thrown out by the same people to destroy the masculinity and family structure of the Black community. I'm not attacking the messenger and I'm sure not attacking the message because I can't figure out WHAT IS the damn message, lol.....you have so many of them. You claim there is no God or devil and that people have made these things up, then you look up with a dazed smile and espouse a curiousity about an Omnipotent Force and Supreme Intelligence somewhere in the universe. Then you flap your wings like mother goose all over people who dare say that atheists have no morals claiming that atheists are often good and decent people, then turn right around and say that there really isn't any such thing as "good" and that morality is also non-existant. So I'm not suprised that the philosphy of Buddhism is also on your menu (to go along with your taste for a deep dish of toasted frosted balls), because you're still searching and don't know WHAT to believe. But don't feel so bad about yourself, brother Pioneer understands these things...... I just ask that if you're ignorant and KNOW you're ignorant, stop arguing and frontin' like you know. You see, I'm MAN enough to give credit to where credit is due....lol. I may not be a Christian, but I'm MAN enough to acknowledge that it was the strong belief in the Black Church along with Christian brothers like Marcus Garvey and Martin Luther King who spearheaded the Civil Rights movement. It was their strong faith in God that gave them to courage to confront and help bring down Jim Crow. I may not be in the Nation of Islam but I'm MAN enough to acknowledge that that religious movement produced the likes of Elijah Muhammad and Malcolm X who futher advanced the progress of our people. There RELIGIOUS philosophy helped to turn around and improve an incalcuable number of Black lives. Now put down the snowballs and point to the atheistic negroes who worship the religion of Western science (that tells him he's the missing link between the chimpanzee and the White man), and tell me what THEY have done in the way of liberating or advancing thier people. You're really making yourself look quite silly. This is getting serious, you need to get a good grip on yourself before your "twin conditions" of heathenism and instablity gets the best of you, lol. Delano I think you're talking about those who hold two SEPARATE beliefs in their head at the same time. Holding multiple beliefs at the same time is good and makes one a great strategist, planner, and generally organized thinker. The game of chess is excellent in helping one to develop this skill. What Cynique is doing is holding two (or possibly more) OPPOSING beliefs at the same time ......which is a pathology if I'm not mistaken, lol. If you believe your dog has died a physical death but his soul has moved on, that's 2 separate beliefs. That's Ok. But if you believe your dog has died a physical death, but still believes he's in the kitchen chewing on a turkey bone; then turn around and snap at family members who try to tell you anything different........now that's fuucked up! Medication may be required for that one, lol.

Troy No, I haven't seen Reservoir Dogs, actually hadn't heard of it until now. But I also liked night riders scene when they were trying to decide whether or not to where the hoods, lol. It reminds me of something Spike Lee would put together, that's probably a major reason he was irritated with the movie. There were so many scenes I enjoyed.....I just didn't want to give them away to those who may be reading who hadn't seen the movie yet. But that Sam Jackson and his bowwing and scratching and Tomming, lol.... The interesting thing about his character is, I've seen Black men who act just like him. If they were to ever make an "Uncle Tom Textbook", surely a reference to his character would have to be included. Now I love my brother....Mr Jackson, but in order for somebody to Tom THAT damn good, a little bit of it has to be in him, lol. BTW, for those who are interested here's Louis Farrakhan's take on the movie: http://www.vladtv.com/video/135951/minister-farrakhan-gives-his-thoughts-on-django-unchained/

Boy, I'm still grinning over how Samuel was "Tomming" in that movie...lol. He had it down. I was waiting for Shirley Temple to pop out from around a corner so they could start tap dancing together, lol. This isn't the first time Samuel played an Uncle Tom like character. He played a similar role in the movie Strickly Business with Tommy Davidson as an overzealous Black manager.

Well, I may be a lot of things but I'm not a liar....lol. As much as I believe in the existance of telepathy I'm not gonna front like I've conciously experienced it personally. I've had various spiritual experiences, but as to telepathy or conciously exchanging thoughts with another human being, I don't recall having had that experience...yet. I believe there is definately some truth to what we call "astrology". I'm not sure how accurate Western astrology is, but I definately believe the alignment of the planet and stars affects a person's behavior and thinking to a certain extent. We know the moon affects the brain in subtle ways, why not other planets and stars? I'm an Aries, and since I was a child most people who believe in astrology are able to discern that after 10 minutes with me.

Let us remember that when I speak of Italian Americans, I'm talking about those whose parents and grandparents are most likely Italian American, going all the way back to Italy/Sicily. In other words, people of PREDOMINATELY Italian descent. I'm not talking about White people who are mostly of Polish, Irish, English, or German descent who's grandfather or great great grandfather was Italian and they just caught the last name. Often times people look at a persons last name and assume they're this or that. Having an Italian last name doesn't make one an Italian American any more than the name Deval Patrick makes the governor of Massachusettes Irish. You have a lot of blond haired blue eyed pale skinned people named Guliani and Tucci (Sicilian names) who look nothing like the swarthy dark haired natives of Sicily because their grandfather or great grandfather married into an Irish or German family. In urban America whether we're talking New York, Chicago, Detroit, or Philly.....for over a century most of the White ethnic groups kept their distance from eachother and tended to marry only in their own ethnic group UNTIL Black people started moving up from the South and this tended to unite them along the basis of being "White". Then they started marrying among eachother. When I look at some of the old photos of Detroit back in the 20s and 30s before it became a Black city, it was divided up into many ethinc neighborhoods and it's remarkable how dark haired and swarthy and "ethnic looking" the Jews and Italians who had just came to America looked. The loud colors they wore and the spicy foods they ate that other "Whites" didn't seem to tolerate from them too well.

Cynique Whether I'm right or wrong, atleast I'm stable and consistent with my beliefs. You're wrong for sure because you carry several opposing beliefs in your head....one of which MUST be wrong. Let me remind you how you got yourself in this situation in the first place, lol. You began this back-n-forth with your IN-tolerance of other people's beliefs. First you argue: "And just because people are Atheists doesn't mean they have no ethics or morals. In addition to being a well organized segment of society and, unlike to a lot of religious hypocrites, Atheists are quite often people who have high morals and lofty principles and who love their fellow man and choose to lead the kind of lives that will benefit the common good. " Then turn around around on the same page and argue: "In the big picture, there is no such thing as good or evil or moral or immoral or Satan or God." How the hell can atheists be moral and good when you claim there really IS NO morality or good? You aligned yourself with agnostics and atheists, then turn around and speak of an Omipotent Force and Supreme Intelligence that you admit you are confused about. You're confused and discombobulated, lol. My position has been clear and constant through out this thread. I believe in a Supreme Being. I didn't assign any function or religion to my beliefs in this thread, I simply stated my beliefs and you took that as an opportunity to defend atheism and criticize religious people as hypocrites. And even start some sort of gender-war invoking "paternalism". Your admitted ignorance and INtolerance caused you to attack traditions and beliefs that you have little working knowledge of. In general........... I think Black people in America and world wide should be extremely careful not to let themselves be sucked in by various atheistic/ amoral/immoral philosophies started by crafty people whose intentions are to seprate them from their Creator. In the end of your Earthly life when you have to account for everything you've done and your Maker is questioning you on your strange unfounded beliefs, those same "wise men" and their "science" whom you put all your faith in won't be their to help you. Easyg1 I know "negro" is a term that was used in the time era you said you grew up in but I'm curious. Did you feel any guilt about using the term "negro"?

Admin "Cynique, whenever I think about someone -- out of the blue I almost always here from them within a day" Then I gather from this statement that you NEVER think about deceased relatives, lol. Sorry bro....couldn't resist.

I really became aquainted with him when he did recurring appearances on Bill Maher's Real Time.

Troy "Pioneer I don't have to met any Italians to know your reasoning is flawed. Again, just because YOU observed something does not make it true outside what you've observed. Again, if who want to extend your observations to an entire group of people go ahead. Just don't be surprised if others, like myself, are astonished by your methods for drawing conclusions." You seem to be focused more on my reasoning than the accuracy of my conclusions. When you have to solve a mathematical problem and whip out a calculator, do you call up Texas Instruments or Sharp and drill them on the methods their calculators use to come up with the answers before you accept them? Lol....or do you just "plug in" the numbers and assume the answers are correct? Regardless as to how I've arrived at my conclusions.....are they correct from your experiences? From your personal observations of Italian Americans, am I right or wrong in what I've stated about much of their behavior? "In terms or how large a sample you need and how much data should be collected, measured and evaluated would require a courses. I would however start by looking at Italians native to various regions in Italy -- this might help eliminate of the cultural bias you may be observed in New York.. How many Italians in Italy have you observed and evaluated?" The amount of research I've done in Italy is irrelevant because the focus of my original statement was about Italian AMERICANS. I said: "Any AfroAmerican who has lived, worked, or spent any reasonable about of time around Italian Americans can't help but to notice some of the behavioral and even physical similarities between them and us more so than other White Americans." Now why in the world would I fly off on some wild goose chase to Italy looking to do research on a group of people who are living in my own nation, state, and locality?

Cynique "Well, Pioneer, with a nod to your cherry-picking "rebuttal", I don't claim to be consistent in my sentiments." Do you know another word for people who are inconsistent? They are called "unstable", sometimes confused. They believe in one thing today and something else tommorow and something entirely different next month. You can't nail down exactly what they believe which allows them to brag about "never being wrong". "- unlike you, who presumes that what you believe cannot be questioned. You think you have a hot line to "heaven" and this god who exists in your mind and who is apparently your personal confidant, has anointed you to tell others what you consider the indisputable truth. That's why I called you condescending. I was disappointed in you. I hate to resort to cliches, but you seem totally incapable of thinking outside the box. Your mind is finite. You are not a free thinker. I can't believe you've studied other religions and philosophies and are so steeped in absolutes. You cannot conceive that the god of your belief may not exist. And why not? Because your faith is apparently your security blanket. It doesn't seem to occur to you, who are so quick to diagnose others, that you need a god to cling to. And you could benefit from a few sessions on the couch, yourself. We have all agreed that language can be a stumbling block particularly when people like you deign to tell someone what they mean when they use a word or phrase. Since you want to imply what I mean when I say "universal intelligence, etc." I'll tell you what you mean when you say "god". To you, god is a divine almighty personage who is responsible for the bible or the koran or the torah, and is the Father of a Christ figure and interferes and injects himself in the affairs of men." Might I suggest some sites where you can download the proper software that may help you with your PROJECTIONS: http://www.freedownl...ion_Graphs.html http://www.freedownl...ion_Charts.html http://www.planware.org/exlshot.htm Obviously you love projecting ideas and concepts on to people that they haven't said in order to attack those fabricated ideas. During this back and forth, I've simply acknowledged the existance of an Almighty Supreme Being. I haven't detailed what I believe to be the function or characteristics of this Being. "That's not what I have in mind when I say a "universal intelligence/force/source". Since you're such an "expert" on where I'm coming from, why can't you discern that my mind-set is compatible with the definition of an agnostic?" Because an agnostic is one who isn't sure whether or not there is a God and doesn't spend time trying to find out. You said: "In the big picture, there is no such thing as good or evil or moral or immoral or Satan or God. " That was a DEFINATE statement from one who seemed pretty sure (on that day atleast) of their beliefs, lol. Last week you stood boldly declaring: "unlike to a lot of religious hypocrites, Atheists are quite often people who have high morals and lofty principles and who love their fellow man and choose to lead the kind of lives that will benefit the common good" This week you sat at the table with your head down mumbling something 'bout: "As for atheists, I don't need to defend them." Obviously you CAN'T defend atheist....lol. Hell, you're doing a pretty lousy job trying to defend yourself right now. "BTW, rather than combative. I prefer to consider myself amazed by smug people who, without proof, consider themselves right, and anyone who questions their infallibility, as ignorant. SMH" Oh Cynique...I'm so proud! Obviously you've looked back over your previous posts, and after discovering that YOU said: "Religion, which is an invention of man, has crafted "god" in the image of a person, making "him" either a petty, vindictive old man who doles out punishment, or a Mystical prophet who spouts riddles. And any one who judges people by the bible or other religious scriptures written by men is not qualified to be objectve." ......the amazement of your arrogance has startled even you and no doubt started you on the journey of self reflection!

Troy Did I feel it was too long???? To the contrary, I felt like the 2 1/2 hours weren't long enough! I could have put in another hour on this film. He should do a part 2 in the near future. I must admit that part of the reason I loved it so much was it kept reminding my of my father and how much HE would have enjoyed it. But seeing Jamie Foxx in such a strong masculine role rather than in the typical clownish roles he used to play earlier in his career made me quite proud of my brother. And Sam, I never thought I'd enjoy seeing a Black man play an old Uncle Tom the way HE did, lol. He plays an Uncle Tom better than he plays crackheads! Now, ofcourse the Gallager-like splashing blood and hunks of meat flying all over the place from gunshot wounds were a little over the top and even comical at times, but that's just classic Tarantino, lol. I think he does it more for humor than he does for shock. I've seen Pulp Fiction and while it was OK (meaning I'd watch it if I don't have anything else to watch) I wouldn't have spent any money to see it like his other work such as Kill Bill 1&2 or GrindHouse. The GrindHouse was and still is my favorite Tarantino production so far. Jango is a close second, but that Grindhouse....I still pop that in the player and watch it from time to time. No doubt Tarantino is one talented "funny style" White dude, lol.....(must be the Italian in him...lol) As far as the killing White folks part...... I'm gonna have to ask you like you asked me....surely you wrote that in jest right? I like the fact that Jamie played the role of a Black superhero (in a Black hat) but him killing White people in the movie had nothing to do with the excellence of the script and roles by just about all the actors. But I can see how some White people who are careful to monitor anything in the media that may serve as a threat to White supremacy may worry that a Black man killing so many White people in a movie (when Hollywood usually has it the other way around) may have a psychological impact on the audience.