Pioneer1

Troy 　 Well trying to count the number of African sold into slavery is impossible and estimates will vary significantly. While we know African's sold/traded other African into slavery, few suggest that Africans are responsible for the brutal system. That responsibility rests with the europeans. That was my original point to Cynique in regards to trying to collect reparations from African nations. It's not that it didn't happen, it's that we can't VERIFY it nor can we verify their level of involvement in order to determine how much responsibility should be placed on them. But that reminds me of more interesting points: You know there were Black slave holders in the U.S. You also know many so called white people are actually Black. Indeed some estimate that most white people you have been in the US for more than a few generations some enslaved African Ancestry, should they be paid too? Well if you'll recall my views on race...... In MY OPINION a persons race should be determined by their phenotype more so than their ancestry. We know that both Blacks AND Native Americans owned slaves but their role was miniscule compared to that of Europeans. And as in the case with Africans who sold other Blacks....trying to prove which Black people alive today actually descended from Black slave owners would be a nightmare. Infact, it would be probably be even MORE confusing because many AfroAmericans are have both slaves AND slave owners (White and Black) in their ancestry....LOL. I don't believe reparations should come form individuals, states, or local municipalities. I believe it should come DIRECTLY from the United States, Puerto Rican, Brazilians, British, French, and other national governments who had a clear and proven role in the Trans Atlantic Slave trade. And if there are any corporations STILL around that existed and can be proven to have participated in the Trans Atlantic Slave trade....perhaps they should also be held responsible.

Lol, where is Sara? Is that her in the background to the left.....staring out the window?

Troy Pioneer1 would a sales receipt work for you? Seriously, what would qualify as proof for you? To be quite concise...NOTHING. There is very little history beyond 200 years in the past can actually be PROVEN according to my high standards for actual proof. However, solid evidence actually WOULD include a bill or document of sale or atleast an authentic document by a prominent slave trader about the exact procedure used to "buy" slaves from other Africans. Again, I'm not saying Africans didn't sell SOME others for enslavement to Europeans... My question is how many Africans can we prove were actually sold by other Africans that we feel confident enough to charge the African people for reparations? 　 So, are you suggesting people like me are stopping us from getting reparations? I'm down for unity and I have no issues with confidence. So I'm not sure that is it. Lol..... Ok, now all we have to do is find and convince about 9,999,998 other AfroAmericans to feel the same as you and I and we'll go to Washington D.C. It's as simple as that.

I too support free education as long as the students maintain 3.0 GPA Infact, they should offer all students free room, board, and give them a small allowance to take care of their clothing and daily needs...as long as they maintain a certain GPA. The costs of going to college far exceed tuition. You have to eat and have a place to stay and have money for books, stationary, lap tops, accessories and a host of other items not covered in the tuition. How many students can afford all of this while going to school full time? I'm hearing from a lot of younger people that not only do Universities charge high tution but even the community colleges charge extrodinarily high "lab fees" for those who take medical and science classes on top of their tuition rates. I've said it once and I'll continue to say it that college for the most part in America today is a well organized SCAM. Troy College should not be compulsory, but there should be quality free options available. The society and culture is FAR better off when the citizens are educated I agree that society is better off with an educated populous. However we don't need universities to accomplish this..... The knowledge of how to live a civil life can and should be taught in highschool (and at home). Infact, it WAS for the longest time in America until they took it out of the schools in the 60s. I'm sure Cynique could attest to the fact that HIGHSCHOOL students back in the 40s and 50s were better mannered and more professional and mature than COLLEGE GRADUATES today! Hell, most of the kids I run into who just graduated American universities can't even spell without spell-check, have sloppy hand writing, and can't even count the change they owe you back. Once the public educational system became intergrated, the powers that be decided to defund public education and let it go straight to hell.

Cynique You're entitled to your opinions. Is there any documented proof that Africans didn't sell each other into slavery? Any version of either claim would all be examples of revisionist history. Not that I know of. I don't believe there's any documented proof either FOR or AGAINST allegations that Africans sold eachother to Europeans for enslavement. Which makes it hard to argue that Africans owe AfroAmericans reparations. But we DO KNOW who enslaved Africans regardless as to who sold them. There is plenty of well documented proof on that. So let's start with what we know. Troy Pioneer all African scholars say that Africans sold other Africans into slavery, I don't think anyone who has studied the subject thinks this is debatable. I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm asking do we have any PROOF or solid documentation of how many Africans were sold by their fellow brethren. Without PROOF or solid documentation, what grounds would we have demanding reparations from African nations? Also, if you think the American people, Black ones included, would approve some form of reparations for Kenyan, or any African, immigrants?! Negro puhlese! I'm sure some would, but most probably would not. Which is why I believe the argument should be kept separate. However once both AfroAmericans and Africans are properly educated on the FACTS of history rather than endearing mere myths and legends originating from the same people who colonized and enslaved both.....I'm sure both will come to some mutual agreement concerning reparatory benefits. Now this might be something worth considering, for the people directly impacted are still alive. But still White folks would fight this tool and nail, for the money will come from everyday working stiffs, not the oligarchy who whose families directly benefited from the enslavement Africans. History has shown and proven that when Black people show a degree of unity and fight for justice....WE GET IT....regardless of the opposition. All obstacles tend to fade away like a mirage. The only thing preventing Black people from getting reparations NEXT YEAR is their disunity and lack of confidence.

Cynique Why would America pay Africans who have emigrated to this country reparations, Pioneer??? In many states, if a group of people ride together and one of them robs a store at gun point and gets back in the car....ALL of those in the car will be charged with armed robbery. Why? Because they feel that ALL of those involved share responsibility to some degree regardless as to the level of their involvement. Africa suffered: -brain drain -depopulation -loss of productive youth for daily activities -economic and social destabilization .....all as a result of the TransAtlantic Slave trade. America is just one of the nations involved and has benefited tremendously from the human and natural resources of Africa so she she SHOULD pay the descendants of the victims. Countries like Nigeria should pay black Americans reparations for selling them into slavery! 1. Most African nations like Nigeria didn't even EXIST during the TransAtlantic Slave trade. 2. There is very little if any documented PROOF that Africans actually sold fellow Africans into slavery. Most of it is heresay. So if Africans are to be paid reparations at all, it can't go to the governments in existence today but should go to the actual indivuals descended from the victims. But again, I think reparations to Africans should be a SEPARATE argument.

Troy @Pioneer1, do you think President Obama should receive reparations if they were being provided? Well, he'd benefit by proxy since his wife and daughters are decendants of slaves....lol. His father may have been Kenyan but President Obama being born in the United States IS an authentic AfroAmerican though not decended from slaves. I believe because of the injustices the Kenyan and other African people suffered under colonialism, it would be a good argument for African immigants in the United States to receive some form of colonial reparations as well. However I think THAT particular form of reparations should be held SEPARATE from AfroAmerican reparations so as not to cause confusion and fraud. If not, you'd have a lot of Arabs from Algeria, Egypt, and Morrocco as well as White South Africans trying to make a case for why THEY TOO should also receive reparations as "African Americans"....lol.

I think reparations are long over due however I think they should come MOSTLY in the forms of: -Education (REAL education dealing with science and technology) opportunities -Business opportunities -Land -Medical care -Legal exemptions This would help us much more than simple monetary allotments. If Blacks were offered reparations I think a good question would be WHO actually qualifies for them? I'm willing to wager that a lot of people who never considered themselves "Black" in any way shape or form will all of a sudden embrace their African ancestry and become "soul brothers and sisters" over night. You'll liable to see Italians and Arabs wearing Afros and dashikis. Should African immigrants also receive some of OUR reparations? They didn't go through slavery, but they did suffer colonization and certainly slavery and the amount of human labor sucked from their society must have had an impact.

Lol..... I think the vast majority of Americans actually CAN relate to a "perceived" dope smoking socialist more than a rich business tycoon who likes firing people. However who a person can relate to and who they think would be better at running the country can often be two different types of people. Unfortunately many Americans have bought into the foolish idea that a nation should be ran like a business...and if follows that they would assume a businessman would make a better President.

The Affordable Care Act A.K.A. "Obama Care" is a CRUEL JOKE. It's actually the flip side or opposite of Universal Healthcare. When it was first introduced there was a PUBLIC OPTION and NO MANDATE forcing you to sign up. By the time they finished it and sent it through there was a MANDATE but no PUBLIC OPTION. Universal Healthcare would have allowed people the option to choose a government sponsored free healthcare system with less amenities but alteast gives them basic health coverage. Obama Care FORCES people to BUY insurance at a price or face a penalty, involves a ton of paperwork asking about your financial status and often pushes reponsibility off to the state medicaid programs where they are less funded and usually doesn't cover dental or vision! I actually feel a little funny about bashing so many Republicans who were criticizing it because many of them were actually right about it being a bureaucratic mess. Republicans were even right about it being disasterous to the economy because by forcing so many businesses to insure their fulltime employees......he gave them the greenlight to lay off a lot of people bust a lot more others down to part-time. ((shakes head)) You brought up another great point that should be included in any Black agenda. Not only do I support more financial aid for qualified Black students. I actually support FREE COLLEGE EDUCATION FOR ALL QUALIFIED STUDENTS. Now I believe THIS is something that can actually be done at the state level. I've heard from so many people that many of the state universities in California offered extremely low tuition back in the 60s and 70s and a lot of people today are stil benefiting off the good but low cost education they got from the U.C.'s and Cal States. Certainly my view on healthcare and education reform are broadbased and sweeping but it's actually quite fair because when EVERYONE is granted the same access to certain institutions like health and education then you eliminate the problem that millions of working class people are going through right now where they're too poor to pay for things out of their own pockets but because they aren't dirt poor they can't take advantage of most of the government programs out there.

In my opinion the main problems affecting Black America today are massive unemployment and underemployment, living in areas with inferior schools and crumbling infrastructures, lack of access to adequate healthcare, and high rates of criminality and immorality. Some of these problems no government entity can solve, only the community coming together can. But the government can help establish an atmosphere of stability where our basic needs met so that we can rise above base concerns and focus on deeper social issues. I actually have an agenda laid out in the almost miraculous event that I happen to get the ear of the next President or Governor to present it to. But because I'm the type of brother who likes to get a lot of attention and credit for his accomplishments....I'll keep much of it to myself, lol. To be honest, I don't like the idea of having a STATE inside of a nation. I actually support a PROVINCE type national structure instead of a STATE one because it eliminates a lot of confusion and conflicts of interests as well as lessens the amount of laws and ordinances people have to live under. But if I had a Governor who was sincere about helping everyone in their state I would present a number of issues to them: 1. We need a statewide jobs program where the GOVERNMENT goes directly past local municipalities and hire people directly, paying them a decent wage for unskilled jobs that help clean up or rebuild the infrastructure regardless of their criminal record. 2. We need a statewide univeral-type healthcare plan that isn't tied to one's employment. 3. We need the state Government to financially standardize and directly oversee the public educational system instead of leaving it up to individual districts, to eliminate gross inequalities in education which is the main fuel for jails and prisons.

Although I don't think the discrimination is as severe or intense at certain times..... I actually believe that as a group women ARE discriminated more than the Black race. Their discricrimination tends to be more global also. Where as anti-Black racism may be found in various regions of the globe but may be almost absent in others such as most of the African continent or even many urban areas in the United States........ Everywhere you go on this planet women tend to be in a somewhat subservient role to the man. Even in the rather matriarchal Black communities of urban America, the seemingly dominant role women play is only in the arena of family economic. She brings in the money and manages the household. But socially and politically and especially when it comes to religious matters, men still rule for the most part and that rule seems to be never seriously challenged. When I look at how women are discriminated against in society.... I would even go as far as to say that a lot of men think it's "cute" to act in a sexist way toward women, I'm often guilty of this myself. I tend to flirt with women in a sexist way, but I still consider my behavior quite benign as compared to a true chauvinist who actually believes women are somehow inferior to men or those who are driven by religious idealogy. Not only do many men feel it's natural for women to be mistreated, but because women tend not to react against personal injustices the way most men do.....a lot of men don't take it as seriously. It often takes another woman to understand the pain a woman may feel about a given word or deed. That's one of the reasons I don't bash the women who came out to accuse Bill Cosby for their timing. I don't know whether he's guilty or not but women who are victims of assault be it sexual or otherwise are often embarrassed and ashamed and find comfort in numbers. Sometime it takes someone like a lawyer or even a police officer to almost force them to come foreward and name their abuser and even then they'll only do it after other women step forward first. I'm not a woman, I don't know why many women make the decisions they make but atleast I recognize the differences in how many women operate and don't readily dismiss their claims of injustices simply because it's they didn't do what I would have done in a given situation. A recent example...... The other day I was in a coffee shop and a man kept trying to talk to this young lady. She was busy with her work and didn't seem to have time for company anyway which any real "playa" would have picked up on.....lol. She would keep her words short and focus on her work but she was very nice about it. He kept spinning around in the chair trying to make conversation with her and she kept politely brushing him off and finally he stopped talking to her. As he got up to leave he said have a nice day and "accidently" spilled hot tea on the poor girl, "apologized" with a smile on his face and briskly walked out the door. She sat their frozen with her mouth open blinking. A couple of women who witnessed it kept asking her was she OK and she just sat there shaking her head with a slight smirk on her face still in shock and they told one guy working in the coffee shop. He asked her did she want to call the cops and she said no, stated that she was fine, and just wanted to forget about it.....so he let it go and went back to work. But another woman a little older than the girl who saw the incident sat down and talked with her, helped, clean her up, and helped her gather her things and walk her out of the place as she started crying. Where as the male employee didn't recognize the symptoms of shock nor was he aware that women tend not to confront their attackers out of fear of being attacked again....a wiser female DID recoginze these things and jumped into action and helped her. Incidents or worse take place all over the world every day as men often feel justified in mistreating women and other men don't take those mistreatments seriously.

Cynique Will Hillary pass up a chance to create a great legacy or just go along with business as usual? When people allow candidates to symbolize their hopes and grievances, are they setting themselves up for disappointment in view of past history? If a Democrat like Obama couldn't keep his promises, what kind of results can a Progressive independent like Sanders have in initiating reform? Would a Trump presidency allow America to openly become the bigoted anti-thesis of democracy that it has always been? Great questions you raised. I actually was FOR Hillary over Obama during the '08 election. Not that she was a saint....as I knew she wasn't, but I figured that she'd be more of a fighter on certain issues dear to Black and poor people than Obama who just came across as too cereberal and professorial.....and now I'm CONVINCED that this is the case. I think that regardless as to whether Trump actually gets in office or not, the damage has been done. He has indeed did what he was promoted to do....which is make racism and facism more acceptable in public discourse. His entire presidential run was about dismantling the idea of political correctness. However I don't know if his backers and promoters anticipated the backlash among progressives and especially progressive youth who have been challenging him at every turn lately. Last week they hemmed him up so bad somewhere in Arizona they forced him to run out of his car for safety....lol. As someone who has been retired for 24 years during which time, whomever was president made little difference in my day-to-day life, how many others are there like me who have simply stayed under the radar? Why should I even bother to vote? Well, if the WRONG person gets in office and eliminates social security and pensions like they've been doing on a LOCAL level to many retirees....you may have to come OUT of retirement and find a job again just to eat! I'm sure you won't feel like posting much on AALBC after spending a day splashing around down at the carwash, lol. Troy Pioneer the board has life because of folks like you; it is simple as that. Ahhhh....lol....ever seen a Black man blush?? I didn't know Thom Hartmann was still on the radio. I used to listen to him all the time when I lived out West. Him and Mike Malloy. as Trump supporters seem more motivated... like Bernie supporters Trump motivates his supporters the same way Sarah Palin did, by talking in a highly charged by very simple way that appeals to the lowest intelligence of the demographic. As with Palin....many people who support Trump has no idea what he actualy stands for but he talks so base and low class that they can easily understand HIM and what he's saying in his speeches. I've read stories where people who've lost thier factory and lumber jobs in rural parts of the nation see Trump as a savior if elected. They really believe that he'll help them even though he doesn't even patronize them with a lie that he will. This man simply gets on stage and tells people that they are unemployed because their factor closed down....that's it. Or he'll tell a mother that she can't afford medicine for her children because the cost of medicine is rising....and leave it at that. He doesn't say who caused these problems NOR does he offer a solution to them....he basically tells people what they already know. But they see it as him speaking to their needs and that's enough to win their support. Who knows....with any luck Hillary will choose BERNIE as her running mate and that would almost certainly bury any chances Trump has of winning. Mel This has been my reason to vote since before I left Brooklyn in the 90s... EVERYTHING happens at the local level. Thanks to the Republican party in Illinois, I saw this from the field...They put me in the game. And that game is brutal and those dudes are gangsta. I mean, drive-by gangsta too. You brought up another good point I forgot to mention. Black people need to stop focusing on party affiliations and focus more on the actually ISSUES themselves. This calls for us to be more ANALYTICAL in our thinking. We have to be able to decide who has our best interest in mind at any given election and go with THAT candidate regardless of their party affiliation. Which means on a local level some times we go with the Democrat, other times we go with the Republican, and other times still we go with the Independant. But we go with whoever promises to and continue to carry out our agenda. I learned a lesson studying African immigrants around the United States. Many of the Nigerians down in Texas are actually Republican. When you ask them why it's not just because of family values and business, but also because Nigerians are extremely intelligent and business minded and heavily involved in LOCAL POLITICS as a way of fortifying their business success. They talk with their money and Republicans know it and cater to it.

I can believe that. When I was a kid me and the other boys in my neighborhood used to invent all types of toys. We would make toys out of old television parts, stereo parts, old shopping carts and other things we find in the ally or out on the curb as trash. Make huge sling shots out of old bike tires and innertubes.....lol. And that was just in MY neighborhood which wasn't a bad neighborhood. My cousins who lived straight up IN the ghetto had all types of fun where they would get ahold of blow torches and melt down part of old abandoned cars and refrigerators they would find in vacant lots. Brothers were making dune buggies and everything else rolling around in the hood before they became commercial items.

That's funny..... Because today ASIANS are considered among the most effeminate race and Blacks are considered the most masculine. Because many conservative or traditionalist White men have a narrow minded view of the world and life in general, anything that doesn't fit their category of manhood is automatically regulated to being "lady like". Growing up in Detroit I saw Black men who were hard core street hustlers many of whom kept 3 or 4 women doing things that many White men considered "feminine". They used to get their finger nails done, they were very particular about their hair, were neat and sharp in the way they dressed, wore high heeled shoes, some even wore enough lip balm that it looked like lipstick...lol. But there was nothing "sweet" about these brothers and if you dared challenged THEIR manhood you'd be putting your very life in jeopardy. Some may consider it a stereotype but I believe there is some truth to the belief that Blacks tend to be more stylish or more creative. Besides, is being a "lady" really all THAT bad?

Well, I'm glad to see that this board has been brought back to life.....lol. Like Troy, I also doubt that Trump will be elected as President. Mel stole a little bit of my thunder...lol....because I share her observations of there being little change since the Reagan era. Even if Trump does get in, it really wouldn't make THAT big of a difference. National politics and policy tends to remain the same regardless as to WHO gets in office be it a Republican or Democrat. Obama is in office right now, he's been in for the past 7+ years....have things IMPROVED for Black America or have things gotten worse? Black America has lost more actual wealth under Obama so far than they had under George W. ! Much of his policies thus far from cash-for-clunkers, to Obama Care, to continuing the war on Terror seems to eventually benefit Republicans and the rich more than they do the people who voted for him. We need to take a page out of the Republican's playbook and start focusing more on local politics and gaining individual and communal wealth and build from that we will be in a position to have some real power and influence over national politics.

C G But Obama is a half white boy, and he has demonstrated as such. Ofcourse. This is why I generally don't refer to Obama as being the first "Black" President. However ANYONE can be of help to the Black community if they're forced or enticed to. A sound agenda backed by sheer tenacity could FORCE even White politicians to be better for Black people than many of the Blacks ones we have in office. Look at what Blacks in Chicago have been able to FORCE Rahm Emmanuel to do. Mel On top of what you said already.... I think one of the BIGGEST reasons that the wisdom of the elders aren't respected as much as Black youth is because they have to COMPETE with a lot of that garbage Black children are being taught in the educational system (not to mention the media). I know my parents and older relatives and older people in the community I knew growing up would tell me ONE thing, but when I went to school the White teachers would tell me something totally different that often times OPPOSED what I was told by Black elders. And because teachers (especially if they are White) are often revered as authority figures who can be counted on to give CORRECT information, what they say regardless as to whether it's true or not seems to carry more weight.

Lol....alright my brother.

　 C G Cynique is another one I'm working on. So I hope she doesn't end up "liking" you too much either.....lol. Infact, she's half-way civilized already. Either that, or doesn't have the energy to raise too much hell anymore. Once I get her and Sara tamed and under my firm control, I'm gonna drive them to a state where polygamy has been de-criminalized, find a cheap motel at a weekly rate, and make them both my common law wives....lol. You stole a bit of my thunder as I was actually going to point out many of the reasons you listed. A lot of young Black people have a subconscious feeling of disappointment and resentment toward older Blacks and especially those of the post Depression baby-boom era whom they felt left them a fucked up society to live in. A lot of young Black men hate older Black men as they remind them of their father who abandoned them. If they aren't being poisoned by their own mother from her negative descriptions of their father.....the seemingly indifferent behavior and concern so many Black man have toward their own children has inject hatred into the hearts of many young Black men for other Black men whom they can't trust. Also, through out history the elders have always maintained most of their respect by being able to pass along important wisdom and survival skills to the next generation. The young man respected the old man..not because of his strength...but because of what he could teach him as far as how to fight, how to get women, how to make money, ect... Many of the older generation of Black men not only DON'T have the knoweldge of how to secure these things for themselves let alone teach the younger men.....but in many cases those who CO know are actually COMPETING with the younger males for money and women. Which the younger generation of men often find frustrating and offensive. 　 I also do not understand why Black people vote democrat and do not make specific demands of them in specifically helping Black people! Jews do it! Gays do it! Muslims do it! Hispanics do it! White women do it! If democrats do not support those particular group's specific issues, those groups will not for democrats. When the few Blacks have made demands as a condition for a vote for Democrats, white racist democrats respond: "We cannot help just Blaaaacks. We have to help everybody!" Hence, with a foolish humanitarian outlook, Blacks give their votes away to the democrat party in hopes that the democrats' helping the "whole" will result in individual people, including Blacks, to benefit; and, again, Blacks get the shortest end of the stick. Shameful! Absolutely and utterly embarrassing! It "remarks" of low intelligence! It's interesting that you should say that because I had a similar exchange with Troy about Blacks not presenting Obama with an actual AGENDA during his first 90 days in office in this very thread: http://aalbc.com/tc/topic/3746-michael-eric-dyson-goes-off-on-president-obama/?page=1 I didn't say they should have present him with a bunch of goddam IDEAS and SUGGESTIONS..... I said we should have sat down amongs ourselves and formulated a well thought out AGENDA that outlines what we expect for him after helping to put him in as well as the CONSEQUENCES that would occur if we didn't see any effort on his part towards implementing them.. Infact, a portion of it should have been presented to him or whoever the potential nominee was before they even received the Democratic nomination. Perhaps the same should have been done for the Republicans also. Fredrick Douglass said the power concedes nothing without a demand. Even the older Civil Rights generation realized that they had to continually march, fight, and DEMAND justice and that the laws of the land be changed. Simply begging and crying and expressing one's disappointment over being ignored didn't work THEN and certainly doesn't work TODAY. Perhaps that's why the generation of Black youth in their teens and early twenties have taken back to the streets to raise hell and demand justice picking up whether their grand and great grandparents left off.

Wait for 'em..........because they're coming.....lol ((shakes head)) Cynique That was a detailed and touching response, but it doesn't TOUCH the actual question...lol. I still didn't see an answer as to why there seems to be less respect and appreciation for our elders TODAY than in the past. Or perhaps I'm wrong in assuming that you even feel this way. I know I do. I'm not talking about your rounds with members of this board (although it influenced the question) but society in general and the overall lack of reverence for the older generation whether it's in the form of assaulting seniors on the street, financial scams that target the elderly, or even politicians who unabashedly cut social security and medicare funding and other programs that toss thousands of seniors out on the street. It just seems like being and elder doesn't carry the same weight or reverence it did say even 30 years ago let alone 50.

Del Which one of my assumptions did I ignore? My position wasn't that intellectuals DID NOTHING. To the contrary, they did TOO MUCH...lol ....but of the wrong thing. My position was that highly educated intellectuals tend to over analyze things (too much thinking) and most of their "solutions" are convoluted and impractical. I never said ALL of them did or were, which is why I used the terms "tend to" and "most". Huey Newton agreed with you which is why he didn't put Angela David in charge to intellectual. So another great thunder agrees with you. Ofcourse. The mark of a good leader is to place people where their talents can be of best use to the movement. Huey WAS a real leader and he came straight up from the streets so he had social experience necessary to influence and motivate the masses of Black people from the streets. Unfortunately his drug use had influence over HIM.

Del Not sure who "Mohinder Gandhi" is/was, I couldn't find too much info on him. However with the notable exceptions of Booker T Washington and Dr King, the rest were great intellectuals sho 'nuff but were not very good leaders or organizers of the Black masses. Oh yes..... People like brother Cornel West can articulate the frustrations of Black people and the poor excellently! But aside from the two notable exceptions I mentioned (Washington and King), I doubt that the others you listed could mobilize and lead a street gang in the ghetto. That's not to diminish their intellectual talents. They were good at what they did. But they weren't "leaders" of the masses and their skills weren't effective enough to spark and maintain a mass movement among Black people. Even Booker T wasn't the most effective of leaders. He was an excellent educator with brilliant ideas, but it took Marcus Garvey to come and AMPLIFY his message of self-sufficiency and turn it into a movement.

(obviously anyone can comment) On more than one occasion you mentioned the lack of appreciation for those who are older. My question is WHY do you think there seems to be less respect or appreciation for the elders in society today? I have my opinions but I want to hear yours (and others) first.

Dr J Each person’s destiny is not a matter of chance; it’s a matter of choice. It’s determined by what we say, what we do, and whom we trust.” Quite a powerful message. A powerful quote indeed...... Who was the author?

Troy I understand a busy man like you probably had a long day, and need a way to relax but...PUT THE CHRONIC DOWN BRO...LOL!!! It's all good my brother. Thanx for making me read that OP about 7 or 8 times trying to figure out where I may have went wrong.....lol Edit how you see fit.