Pioneer1

Damn information gets around fast online...lol. I just saw this 15 minutes ago in USA Today and was going to post the article in this thread and Troy beat me to it. It seems like every week or so people are presenting me with the same information I was going to present to them. Troy I believe Snoop feels the same way you and I do about the series but I don't think he articulated if frustration properly. He basically started cussing and complaining about them always showing movies about Black slavery rather than the improved more wealthier state of Black America today. But the way he expressed his frustration.....it leaves White America open to say, "Well you just can't please those people. We try to get past slavery and racism and they keep bringing it back up. Then we put on a movie about it and talk about it and they complain about THAT.....geez!" He should have cut down on the cussing and did a little more explaining and putting his anger in context.

Troy If I were a betting man I'd be willing to wage there are thousands of homeless Black families in New York alone who would settle for a half-acre of land somewhere down in South Carolina or Virginia than to continue living on the streets of the Big Apple where they face constant harassment from the police, rats, criminals who prey on homeless, ect.... Sara Again with the telling OTHER people what they can and can't do with their money. If any governmental agency said ANY of the above were reparations for 300 years of forced servitude, I'd be just the Japanese internee and slam the door in their arrogant faces. But check out what it's called: REPARATIONS. Not PLACATIONS Or ACCOMODATIONS It's calld REPARATIONS because it is supposed to REPAIR the damage that has been done to our people from slavery. It takes more than just money to do that. Unlike the Japanese interns who were still around to collect, the slaves are long gone....but the damage done by slavery is still here. Some things can't be fixed by money alone, you also need knowledge, legal protection, land, and other tools the help repair the damage centuries of servitude has caused and this will build you all the money and wealth you desire. In this case it wouldn't be the government telling recipients how to spend their money, but the people themselves TELLING THE GOVERNMENT what forms of reparations they need to make things right.

Troy Pioneer race is ONLY about phenotype and has nothing to do with genetics. There is no Black gene. If you got to African today you could easily find a "black person" who is genetically more different from you than you are a typical white boy. A person's phenotype is arrived FROM their genes. It's passed along as alleles in the DNA. However a person's phenotype is only a FRACTION of their genetic make up which is why you can find the same genes in people of different races. Men and women are clearly different sexes but their share the same genes that give them hair, a nose, a mouth, eyes, ect..... But just a fraction of genetic variation can make a world of difference. Hell, apes and humans share over 90% of their DNA but look at the vast difference. As far as the sex stuff you sound pretty open minded on paper in reality I'm not so convinced. We happen to live in a culture where women with multiple partners are looked down upon and men with multiple partners are revered. A women is not likely to freely admit to her lover, that she wants all of her holes plugged by three other dudes--fantasy's like this are typically frowned upon. You're right and part of the reason why women catch the shittiest end of the stick is because we not only live in a sexually repressed system but a PATRIARCHAL one as well. Under sexual repression....sex is considered vulgar nasty sin that should only be engaged in when absolutely necessary...procreation. But under a Patriarchal system, it's all about men receiving pleasure while women aren't counted. So ofcourse if sex is necessary for the continuation of humanity and SOMEBODY has to get some pleasure out of it...let it be the man....lol. So women are thrown under the bus. But both of these sadistic cultural traits come from a sexually repressive Northern European culture that was imposed on NON-Northern Europeans. But another part of the reason why women would catch hell for this goes back to what I mentioned earlier. Because MOST (not all) men tend to have a higher sex drive and DESIRE multiple sexual partners.....when a man engages in sex with multiple women society sees him a success. One who wants a lot of women and has accomplished his goal. We know there are women with high sex drives but MOST have no desire for multiple sexual partners. Society knows most women want one man they can call their own. So when society sees a woman (who isn't a prostitute) with multiple men at the same time they almost instinctively frown upon it because they know that's not where she wants to be in her life and she's probably letting herself be used by men because of some sort of psychological issue. Cynique As I mentioned before, people in America are petty much LEGALLY free to engage in any type of sexual activity they wish as long as it's between consenting adults. But the problems aren't necessarily coming from the sex itself but how an society places GUILT on those individuals who choose to exercise their sexual freedoms. As Troy pointed out, women who engage in sexual promiscuity are often labled as whores and tramps from their very friends and family members. Men who engage in sexual promiscuity are called sinners, "sick", influenced by Satan, ect.... And it all stems from foreign CULTURE that was imposed on the population by those who had a repressed and warped view of sexuality to begin with. Families, religious institutions, and society at large all get thier disdain for sexual freedom from WESTERN CULTURE which condemned sex as sinful and primative. A "necessary evil"...

Cynique One of the beautiful things about a "hypothetical" situation....is that there is no hidden factors in it. We know there is almost no way most people (especialy most Black people) would accept such a claim in real life. There are too many environmental and other subjective factors involved as well as how one actually determines "intelligence". Not to mention the pride factor which has been known to send some people to their graves not willing to accept certain "truths". But almost anything is possible in the "hypothetical world".

I can take you to parts of Detroit (or Chicago or New York) where brothers are suffering from PTSD and never left their neighborhoods....lol. They've been shot, stabbed, beat up...have seen and done the same to others and never had to sign their name on enlistment papers. And I won't even get into the hell some of these brothers and sisters are catchins in the prisons and jails. I just got through reading a good book by a brother Shaka Senghor who did 19 year and wrote about the unspeakable horrors he witnessed in penitentary. Atleast when they go through it in the military they get SOME sort of promise of benefit for their physical and psychological suffering. The U.S. military isn't my cup of tea, but atleast it seems to offer a way out for a lot of Black and Brown men who don't have the money, pull, or brains to make it in professional America. One of the problems with bringing back the draft is rich and influencial people will ALWAYS find a way to keep their children out or atleast get them the easiest and safest position in service. Look at what old man Bush was able to do for his son George W. He sported around with fighter jets while the war was raging in Vietnam. However in an ideal society which met all of our basic needs (universal healhcare, guaranteed shelter, ect..) I believe that all young men and women coming out of highschool should be required to do some sort of NATIONAL SERVICE for a couple years. Options would include: -military service -helping feed the hungry in America and abroad f-ighting wild fires -caring for the sick in various hospitals and nursing homes Not only would it be a show of gratitude for a great nation that protects and provides for you, but it would also teach young people valuable LIFE EXPERIENCE that they wouldn't get in college or working a menial job out of highschool. Teach them discipline, how to cook their own food, do their own laundry, ect.... But again, under this CURRENT system I wouldn't support it because the influence of race and class are just too strong and rich White people would find a way to get their children in the nice cushy jobs while shitty ones would be left for the poor and Brown.

　 Troy I know I spend the day challenging everything you wrote today, but I know you welcome your ideas being challenged and are not treated by it or take it personally Lol....((shakes head)) I figured you were just bored. So you disagree with Muhammad Ali's position on serving in Vietnam? No, I actually agree with it because: 1. He was making a political statement revolving around the legal condition of AfroAmericans at that time. 2. He was confronting the policy of drafting people against their will. If there were another military draft, do you think Black boys should be compelled to go? Despite my firm belief that Black people should be well represented in all branches and at all levels of the U.S. military....I don't support a military draft policy. One shouldn't be FORCED to take another's life except in direct self-defense. Do you think America has been completely justified in all of the military campaigns (killing) that has taken place in your life time? If not do you think Black people are better off participating in these campaigns? Ofcourse not. Especially with regard to the wars in Iraq and Afganistan. However I think the fact that men and women of all races are forced to participate in unjust wars says more about the public and what they allow their leaders to do than it does about the men and women in uniform doing the bidding of corrupt politicians. When you write: "I know a lot of Black men and women who did and most of them came out better for it." I'm forced to ask better than what? Better than what they were before they went in, or better than what they would have been if they, say, went to college, gotten a decent job, or learned a trade. All of thee above. Most Black men and women I know who were in the military (and came out....as many have stayed and made a career out of it) came out with college education, skilled trades they wouldn't have learned in civilian life like being helicopter and air plane mechanics. Even inside the miltary structure itself I've heard over and over again on how much fairer it seems to be and less racist than the "outside world". Atleast in the miltary it's more about performance and whether you can get the job done or not than race or socials status. It's the proverbial "equal playing field". I'm sure CD Burns can bear me witness to much of this.

Actually, I envision the government giving out plots of land for us to make use of it how we see fit. Kind of like the early Homesteaders. But even that would be nearly useless without the necessary education/knowledge of how to cultivate that land and extract the minerals from it.

　 Troy 　 If you are not clear to the lack of a genetic basis for race, then you are apt to draw the conclusions that you have. I won't debate facts with you once they have been presented. But I'd encourage you can to research genetics and race. Race is just as much PHENOTYPE as it is genetics. I don't care about a person's ancestral claim (unless they're applying for Reparations...lol), as far as I'm concerned if you look White you are White as this society has most likely TREATED you White anyway. 　 　 Culture has nothing to do with genetics. Sure people of the same culture often share the same phenotype, but this is a consequence, of not, the cause of the culture. I've met white people who I did not realize were "white," (as you define white) because they shared my culture (music, religion, cuisine, background, etc). I'm sure you have met people like this too. if not, perhaps you have met Black people you felt were "acting" white. Maybe you called them an "oreo." This is simply a Black people who is culturally white--despite their skin color. Usually when you find a culture where people of different phenotypes observing it together, it was as a result of one RACE (phenotypical) conquering and subjegating another RACE (phenotypical) and forcing them to either modify important aspects of thier culture (religious rites, mating rites, language, ect..) or erasing it all together and forcing them to adopt the conquerer's culture. Examples: -In America Blacks and Whites share the same culture because Blacks were FORCED to. -In Mexico Indians/Meztizos and Whites share the same Spanish culture because the Indian/Meztizos were FORCED to. And in both cases problems have arisen. Also, culture is most certainly affected by and even influenced by genetics: Race and tastebuds: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/science-july-dec10-geneticstaste_12-23/ Melanin and hearing: http://alkhalife.info/content/difference-starts-melanin Caucasian boys more prone to colorblindness: https://consumer.healthday.com/eye-care-information-13/color-blindness-141/caucasian-boys-most-prone-to-color-blindness-study-finds-686437.html 　 People who can HEAR more sound will produce a wider range of sounds. People who can TASTE more flavors will produce a wider range of flavor in their foods. People who can SEE a wider range of colors have a more colorful culture. I'm glad Sara corrected you on the polygamous catholic priests, on it's face that did not sound right, and I'm glad you conceded the point :-) Well if I'm wrong, I'm wrong....lol. However I'm not too quick to admit that my statement about married priests in Africa was incorrect because about a half dozen Africans who didn't know eachother told me this and I know a lot of what not only goes on in secret but actuallly ALLOWED in the Catholic church isn't mentioned in it's official cannon or doctrine. But since I can't find any evidence to prove it, I'll back away from it. As for testosterone levels, sex drive and skin color (what you call race), I have no idea what the connections are, but I strongly doubt the connections are as cut and dried as you suggest. For each anecdote you cite I can think of many others that go counter. Women can be promiscuous too and have high sex drives, but they will still have lower levels of testosterone than a normal man. Body builders take hormones, including testosterone, and generally end up reducing their sexual performance to the point of impotence. Sex drive as well as reproductive maturity are influenced by their testosterone levels more than any other factor. And it is scientifically proven that Black men (on average) worldwide have a higher testosterone rate than White men (on average). https://www.researchgate.net/publication/21534992_RacialEthnic_variations_in_male_testosterone_levels_A_probable_contributor_to_group_differences_in_health So it follows that Black men will have a high sex drve and have no business patterning thier social behavior and family structures on that of men of a lower sex drive. What works for THEM may not and often does not work for MOST of us. For each anecdote you cite I can think of many others that go counter. Women can be promiscuous too and have high sex drives, but they will still have lower levels of testosterone than a normal man. Body builders take hormones, including testosterone, and generally end up reducing their sexual performance to the point of impotence. You're now dealing with more psychology than actual chemistry There is a difference between women who have high sex drives and women who sleep around a lot. Some women naturally have high sex drives that call for multiple sexual partners to satisfy them, but this is RARELY the case due to their generally lower levels of testosterone. Unlike most men who do it for ego and PLEASURE, most women who sleep with multiple men do it either for money (prostitution) or as a form of punishing themselves because of low self esteem. 　 　 But to your point about sexual repression: Pioneer on some level I agree with you. The whole idea about waiting until marriage to have sex and staying with that same partner for life seems crazy. Virtually no one does this and those who try invariable fail, or are miserable, or have missed out on one of life's joys, but... Absolutely. This is why I'm in favor of a sexually free society where everyone has the freedom and opportunity to express themselves based on what's natural for THEM even if it's abnormal.....as long as it doesn't directly harm another. By imposing rigid rules based on the desires and norms of the majority, you represss the minority. If we want to find out what is natural and works for us, let people be free and they will naturally gravitate toward what works for them. 　 　 When you write something like this; "Rather than asking one group of men to control themselves in a sexually repressive society, why not flip it and demand that the other group be MORE SENSUAL and in accord with the dominant human nature?" What you are revealing, perhaps without realizing, it is the fact that we will in a male dominated culture. You talk about men marrying multiple women, and the sex droves of men from various cultures. Your solution and much of what you wrote fail to consider fully 1/2 the population--the women. Actually it wouldn't be inconsiderate at all. It would only appear that way because most women WOULD NOT WANT to take advantage of being able to have mutliple sex partners like most men would. Even among the most liberated of women, most don't have a sex drive desiring multiple sexual partners at the same time or in the same period or relationships. Most just want ONE man at a time per relationship. But most younger women don't understand (nor do they wish to understand) that most young men want the opposite and the the conflict comes when one REFUSES to respect the views and rights of others. Are you just as open that a bunch of other dudes bringing your woman to climax anytime she has the desire. Maybe your girl likes to have three other dudes up in her at the same time, raw. I dunno, but somehow I suspect your desire to eliminate sexual repression is not boundless. But I could be wrong let me know how you feel about this and we can continue the discussion No. Actually my woman isn't really "my woman" but just one of multiple women I'm occasionally intimate with who I actually vibe with the most....lol. I never was too big on relationships and I learned not to be too possessive of women I'm not married to and aren't taking care of. However she doesn't DESIRE multiple men running up in it at the same time even if she knew I didn't care. Again, it's about what the INDIVIDUAL desires for themselves as long as it doesn't directly harm another person or the society. Men and women tend to have different DESIRES so their behavior is different. Even now it's perfectly legal for a woman to have 5 boyfriends if she wants, but most wouldn't even think of such of thing because even if the men agreed she wouldn't DESIRE it. Perhaps my lady doesn't desire multiple sexual partners at the same time, however she shouldn't get upset because I do (and I don't anymore....lol...been there and done that..) as long as that understanding is there and we live in a society that permits it. Now ofcourse, this type of society is unheard of even on the African continent where even BEFORE the coming of Europeans and Arabs there were some pretty strict marital and mating rules and customs. But again, I believe freedom and understanding is the key that will allow everyone to naturally get in where they fit in and build families that work best for THEM.

Sara Pioneer, I am aware of the institution of slavery. To debate the "base" points of same is rather fruitless, IMO. I can really see no redeeming value to it. I stand by we are all born free. When, if and should we should at some point in our lives find ourselves enslaved, well, it is what it is. Btw, I am aware of the meaning of the word "considered," as well. It is not synonymous with the word "is." Lol... Well, should I CONSIDER your above response a dismissal of my question? Or IS it just the build up to an actual answer? Again, at what point in life do you think most of our ENSLAVED ancestors make the transition from freedom to bondage?

Troy Maybe it would be best for you @Pioneer1, to describe what reparations would look like. Does every so called "Black" person get a check? If so how big would it be? Are all so called Black people compensated equally? Will there be a "brown bag test" of sorts to determine relative level of compensation? I mentioned in the first post of this thread that monetary allotments wouldn't be the best form of reparations for us at this time. Infact, in many cases it would probably be COUNTER-productive and do more harm than good. Not only would giving 40 million people $50 million ignite skyrocketing inflation in the U.S. economy almost overnight; but since most of the businesses Black people spend their money in are NOT Black owned that means you'll just be empowering and enriching those who are already exploiting the Black community....not us. As I said before, reparations to AfroAmericans should come MOSTLY in the form of: -Education (REAL education dealing with science, agriculture, and technology) -Business opportunities -Land both in America and abroad -Medical care and knowledge -Legal and political exemptions This would be of much more benefit than just giving us money order or gift-card to Target. These are investments in HUMAN POTENTIAL that would teach us to build OUR OWN wealth far beyond what can presently be imagined. As far as determining who deserves what..... There are a dozen websites out there where a person can trace their ancestry back to determine whether or not they descended (in whole or in part) from slavery. If it be shown that any American had direct ancestors who were slaves, they could receive reparations regardless of how they looked or the number of relatives enslaved. Infact, perhaps this would be the BEST way to argue in favor of reparations anyway. There are many Whites and Native Americans who have Black slave ancestry who would certainly be in harmony with us to demand reparations if the argument weren't framed as racially based one but rather based on who actuallly descended from American slaves regardless of phenotype. Infact, I wouldn't mind letting a couple hundred thousand White people get in on the deal if it means me and most my people are the ultimate beneficiaries.

When I was younger and less experienced in the world I used to believe like Furious Styles, a Black man had no place in a "White man's" military. But years of observation both here and abroad changed my way of thinking. I never joined the U.S. military but I know a lot of Black men and women who did and most of them came out better for it. More disciplined, in better shape, family oriented, and most came out with skills. There were a few horror stories, but the good seems to have outweighed the bad so far. But even more importantly.... I don't want to live in a nation where the military has few if any Black people in it. I want to make sure AfroAmericans are WELL REPRESENTED inside the military just incase you get a General or even Chief of Staff with extreme right wing and racist beliefs who'd attempt to use his powers to carry out some diabolical extermination plan. We know some Black people may go along with the program, but I'm sure a great deal wouldn't.

This thought was inspired by a few questions Xeon raised in another thread: "Well, tell ya what...why don't you give me the name of one black African country in 2016, that leads the world in technological, medical and scientific development. Give me the name of one black African nation that is a global leader in engineering, economics, agriculture and education. How many black African nations are totally and completely free of technological assistance, infrastructure development and economic assistance from China, Europe or the US? And when you finish that list, give me another list of "non-Negro nations" and governments that are dependent on "black African countries" for technological advisors and developers. " 　 Hypothetically speaking..... What if it were proven beyond any doubt to both Blacks as well as Whites that the Black race is somehow intellectually inferior to Whites? How would that knowledge affect our outlook on life as individuals as well as collectively? How would it affect our social and political decisions? Perhaps some proud ones would argue in favor of mass suicide. Others for sure...infact many already are..would become open conformists submitting themselves to Whites as faithful servants and possibly even slaves. Would there then be a political movement by some Conformist negroes to convince the masses that their best bet is to humble themselves into docile servitude as a way of best getting along in society? How would it affect our relationship with OTHER races such as Asians and how we relate to them? How would it affect the LAWS? Could you no longer sue for discrimination since it would be "justified"? Would all the civil rights laws we fought for then have to be REVERSED? Or would Black people no longer be held accountable for certain crimes with the defense of mental deficiency...lol? Judge: "Ordinarily I'd give a person 25 years to life for such a heinous crime, but knowing how YOU PEOPLE are I'm sure you probably didn't know too much better. I'll let you go with a warning this time. Just make sure you apologize to his family at the funeral"

Sara The operative word is "considered." Doesn't negate the FACT that no one is born with chains. What DOES negate the "considered" part is that should the expectant mother follow the call of "Moses" and "slip away"; once in "the promised land," the newborn is NOT "considered" to be anyone's "property This is true indeed....except for being the property of her/his mother, lol. But as long as that mother is in the care of her "owner" then her and her unborn baby are considered his propery and both are in bondage until one or both are freed. However let me ask you...... Since you chose to call our ancestors ENSLAVED rather than SLAVES, this insiuates that after being born free they at some point in time were MADE slaves. So my question is at what point in their life do you recon most made the transition from freedom to "enslavement"? Birth? Puberty? Adulthood? According to your argument, if they weren't born slaves but rather started life free and were EN-slaved, then there HAD to be a set point in which their bondage began.

Sara I wasn't talking about black people. I was referring to Roman Catholic priests of all races, some of whom it is an "open secret" have sexual relations with women out of which are produced illegitimate children. I know you weren't just talking about Black priests. I figured you were making a point that sexual indiscretion happens among all races of priest and not just Black. Not only was I agreeing with you but also added that I didn't see them as problems pertaining ONLY to Black people incase you felt that this was what I was implying.

Sara As for 'clandestine' marriages - but MOSTLY illegitimate children - of Roman Catholic priests, that's an open secret. And it occurs on every continent in the world. Ofcourse promiscuity, cheating, and out of wedlock children occur all over the globe among all cultures and races. I'm in no way saying those are Black issues. However given our sensual nature that I believe is due in large part to our genetics/natural gifts, we need a culture that SUPPORS our heightened sexual activity...not one that represses it. We need a social and moral infrastructure that supports our strong sexual nature. -Extended families to take care of the many children -Effective birth control options for those who want to engage without children -Kama Sutra type philosophies to promote better and healthier sexual activity .....adopting the sexually repressive moral customs of hypo-sexed outsiders has and will continue to spell disaster for us because it was designed by and for people lacking sensuality to begin with and those are the only type of people it would work for.

Sara And one could also make the argument that we are all "born free." Afterwards, i.e., after drawing our first breaths, some of us are forcibly enslaved That's why I called it an argument, because I knew there were those of the above opinion....lol. Under the old Arab and Persian system of slavery, children of slaves were often free and accepted as full members of society absolved to not suffer the fate of their parents. Not all were, but many where...so under THAT system we could argue that many if not most children were born free with the OPTION of being put under the yoke of slavery. But there was no such option under the American system of slavery. Especially in the United States. Black people were specifically born and bred FOR the purpose of being slaves. The Black baby was considered "Massa's" property while yet still in the womb and was expected to earn him money some time in the future.

Xeon It seems that your argument SHIFTS from time to time. In one post you argue on how ridiculous it is that Blacks deserve reparations. In another post you argue on how ridiculous it is for Blacks to EXPECT reparations. So which position are you arguing from: Whether or not we DESERVE them, or whether or not we should EXPECT them?

　 Xeon To be fair, having lived on the West Coast the Latinos there have their own type of speech that mixes the corrupted Spanish of Mexico along with the corrupt English of America. And like you said many older Whites in the North East from Boston down into Pennsylvania still have that strong Eastcoast dialect though it doesn't seem to be as pronounced in the younger generation of Whites. I've met White people who claimed they were born and raised in Brooklyn who didn't have the slightest "Brooklynese" dialect. But as you've pointed out, that southern drawl of Black youth from the South (and Chicago for some reason) seem to stand out from the rest. I wouldn't even call it Ebonics. Ebonics I believe has a scientific explaination to it involving the West African syntax that seems to be genetically inherited. I attribute the vast majority of Black southern youth's desecration of human speech directly to the rap music so many have been listening to the past 15 or so years. I remember back in the early 90s you had southern rappers like Arrested Development and TLC who didn't sound ANYTHING like these slaves dominating the airwaves today. You couldn't tell them from Black youth who came from Detroit or Los Angeles. But then OutKast and Nelly (who's not even from the South) came out pushing that deep southern drawl in thier music and then New Orleans rappers and it's been downhill since. It seems that life started imitating art as Black youth from the South began to purposely drag and slur their words just to create a distinct sound they could call their own. But if only they knew how sloppy and uncivilized it sounds. Instead of saying, "Over there"....they started saying "Oba durrr". Straight up retarded. One of the most embarassing moments not just for hiphop but for the Black American community in my opinion was when Three Six Mafia came on stage to accept an award back in '06 and people could barely understand what the hell they were saying:

Sara Please give a source for the above contention. I've done a search and can find nothing that says the Pope gives a special dispensation to African continental priests to marry and have children. Thanx. The source is ANECDOTAL information that I've heard from numerous Nigerians, Ghanaians and other Catholic Africans over the years. Since you put me to the test I went to do a quick research on it myself and the only information I found showed that Catholic priests in Africa and Latin America that OFFICIALLY got married had to leave the church and start their own sect and now the Catholic church is considering allowing it. Perhaps the many Africans who told me this meant that the priests were married clandestinely instead of out in the open. They didn't mention anything about having children.

Xeon Nice try but the analogy will not work. It's like comparing apples and refrigerators. There is no logical nor intelligent argument for reparations -only an emotional one rooted in bombast, politics for racial grievance and fantasy. I understand this is an affront to your race pride and a sincere belief of the absurd. I got that. But trust me my friend -it's simply not going to happen! Well if you won't listen to me, listen to Dr Martin Luther 'da King's arguement as to why we need reparations: This man was a highly educated borderline genius and world renowned social reformer. Are you telling me YOUR argument against the idea of us getting reparations is more powerful than HIS argument for it? Are you telling me that when Dr King made his case for demanding from Washington what America owes us he was doing nothing more than entertaining an absurd fantasy?

Troy & Sara I would encourage you to read some of the titles on the Ben-Jochannan, Clarke & Van Sertima’s Reading Lists which help you understand why Africa has degenerated to the state you see it today. I would add to Troy's excellent list, "The Destruction of Black Civilization" by Dr. Chancellor Williams. In fact, I would suggest it be the FIRST book read. EXCELLENT RECOMMENDATIONS! Especially Chancellor Williams. I remember as a teenager spending hours in the Shrine of The Black Madonna bookstore in Detroit reading books by those authors. Books like: Destruction of Black Civilization They Came Before Columbus The African Origins of Civilization Troy 　 @Pioneer1, your reasoning is predicated on some questionable assumptions, one of which being a family structure based upon genetic makeup as a differentiating factor between Black and white people. Given the fact that there is no such thing as race the whole premise is flawed. Even if we were to buy into the assumptions (which I don't) the conclusion don't follow. For example; "Some men have very high sex drives but because they are limited to only one wife they begin to cheat with other women married and unmarried producing "outside" children in dysfunctional families" This assumes that men are like animals and unable to exert any influence over their own behavior. It also assume that the only way to relieve this urge is to impregnate another woman and that that woman brings the child to term. What happened to masturbation, prostitution, or just using a damn condom? The results you describe, simply don't natural flow as you've described. Well number one... The idea that there is no such thing such as race is a flawed theory in and of itself.....lol. It's like saying there is no such thing as sex when the difference between males and females are self evident. The CLASSIFICATION of "race" may be questioned, but the fact that racial differences exist is beyond any reasonable doubt. Number two...... We know that CULTURE is in part influenced by one's GENETICS. Races who have more tastebuds to taste with tend to produce foods with more spices and more flavor. Races who have more rods in their eyes allowing them to see more colors tend to produce more colorful clothes. The men of polygamous societies tend to have a higher testosterone rate (thus a higher sex drive) than men of more monogamous societies. It's scientifically proven across the globe that Black and Arab men (and women) on average have a higher testosterone rate than Northern European and East Asian men (and women). And their respective cultures reflect this as Northern European and East Asian cultures have been predominately monogamous through out history....most African and Arab cultures tend to be predominately polygamous either inside or outside the boundaries of marriage. Infact, even the Catholic Church recognizes this difference which is why they had to make an exception and allow priests in Africa to get married or keep their wives. It's not a matter of self control. It's a matter of allowing people to be who THEY are instead of demanding they live by standards established by those who have a different nature than then. As long as Africans in Africa OR the Americas insist on living by Northern European social standards they will continue to suffer from social and family problems as most of those standards go against our very genetic make-up. Rather than asking one group of men to control themselves in a sexually repressive society, why not flip it and demand that the other group be MORE SENSUAL and in accord with the dominant human nature?

Perhaps the first Africans who were brought overhere would most appropiately be called "enslaved" because they were taken from a free state of being and put under the yoke of bondage. However an argument could be made that those BORN in slavery weren't actually EN-SLAVED....they were born in bondage.

I still use the word "nigga" like it's going out of style. it's part of my everyday vocabulary. The only difference between my generation and most Black youth today is that we only said it when we were around eachother, rarely did we say it infront of White people. We instinctively knew the dangers of doing this. Until rap music came out, most Whites didn't know Black people called eachother nigga unlessl they heard it from Black comedians like Richard Pryor My mother used to constantly warn me about saying it so much but I still said it. And as karma would have it, I often cringe when I hear so many younger Black people saying it in public infront of White people. Now they have to constantly try and explain why it's ok for THEM to say it to eachother but it's not cool for Whites to say it. I also believe there is indeed a difference between "nigga" and "nigger". The two words hold two separate definitions. They may not have been initially, but WE as AfroAmericans have invented that difference and made it a reality. As far as differenciating between "slave" and "enslaved African". I think it's mostly semantics. For all intents and purposes if you don't have any power to prevent your kidnapping and subjegation then it doesn't matter WHAT you call yourself....you still are what you are....a slave.

Actually, I believe that the introduction and acceptance of non-African scientific theory and religious dogma contributed to the degeneration of sub-Saharan African culture. Can I prove it? No. Who CAN prove ancient history But just as one particular CULTURE of bacteria can change SWEET CREAM into SOUR CREAM or spoil it all together....I believe practicing a foreign CULTURE can take an advanced African people and turn them into self-destructive scientifically backward barbarians. For example if the Dogon people of Mali had a science that promoted astronomy, particular herbs for healing, and had ways of communicating with the spiritual realm that effectively solved their problems.... but adopted a Christian or Islamic culture that told them all of these things were either wrong and/or of the "devil" and then began practicing ritualized prayer and quotations from "holy scripture" to solve their problems. - that would collapse their society very quickly. Infact, just adopting a FAMILY STRUCTURE that is foreign to your people and goes against their very genetic make-up can prove disasterous. For centuries most African family structures were based on a type of polygamy that allowed men to have as many wives as they could AFFORD. But marriage wasn't required, nor was their a limit on the number of wives a man could have. The higher his status, the more wives he had....and he could take care of them and his children because his high status allowed him to afford it. Men who couldn't afford wives had to pay local/village prostitutes for sex. Now replace that with an religion that: a ) REQUIRED a man to get married whether he could afford to or not and b ) Limited him to only one (or in the case of Muslims 4) wife. Now this causes turmoil and social instability in a number of ways: 1.Some men have very high sex drives but because they are limited to only one wife they begin to cheat with other women married and unmarried producing "outside" children in dysfunctional families. 2. Children who grow up as "outside" or "illegitimate" feel unwanted and are often ostracized by the community. 3.Some men have plenty of money and married but are actively PURSUED by other women in the community who are single and need a man to provide for them which produces conflict between his wife and the other women. 4. Men who don't want to get married or aren't financially able to take care of a wife are forced to anyway by religious obligation and when they can no longer support their wives and children they often abandon them make more dysfunctional families. Now imagine the impact on society that will come from so many "illegitimate" children growing up in dysfunctional families! -Increased aggression from the anger of being thought of as "unwanted" growing up -Not being able to hold certain positions in government because of one's family status -Continuing the cycle of out of wedlock births Can you now see how just this one factor of adopting a foreign practice can lead to chaos and the eventual collapse of your society and send you into a state of backwardness? And the family structure is just ONE aspect of a culture, imagine what the outcome would be when the ENTIRE culture (diet, language, morality, ect....) is replaced by a foreign one as has been the case through out much of Africa.

I've seen it a few times. Game of Thrones isn't a bad show, it's well scripted and I enjoy the nudity it features...lol. But like said before, in my opinion it's just another advertisement for White Supremacy. Over the past decade I've seen a huge surge of these "mythological European past" shows like Lord of the Rings and Hunger Games popping up all over the big screen that seems to take the dark old days of Western Civilization and promote them as some sort of exciting adventurous time for which the White population should be nostalgic for. Where the men were "men" and the women were "naked and blond". Kind of like the obsession many Whites had a while back for the 50s and how they used to push the 50s music and cultural themes. It's as if the present world where Whites are forced to live and work around Blacks and other people of color and treat us as equals is so intolerable to them that they need some form of ESCAPISM to take them back to the "good old days" where you almost never saw any Black people....lol. These mythological past movies seem to do the trick. Most of the White women in them are super-model beauties and most of the White men are well-built super heroes. When I look at shows like this and the Lord of the Rings series, I really see it as a way Hollywood gets to feature movies with all or mostly White casts and justify it by claiming historical accuracy as an excuse for their lack of diversity. Sara 　The richest man who ever lived was Mansa Musa of Mali in the 14th century who founded Timbuktu which National Geographic described as the "Paris of the Medieval World": In the fifteenth century in Timbuktu the mathematicians knew about the rotation of the planets, knew about the details of the eclipse, they knew things which we had to wait for 150 almost 200 years to know in Europe when Galileo and Copernicus came up with these same calculations and were given a very hard time for it. Much of that knoweldge probably was in existence BEFORE Timbuktu was built by King Mansa. Africans probably knew more about science and astronomy BEFORE the invasion of the Arabs than afterward. Mansa Musa had a brother Abubakari whom he financed who sailed over to and explore the Americans CENTURIES before Columbus. I believe all those Olmec Heads they found in Mexico belonged to Abubakari and his crew.