Pioneer1

Lelie has a pretty smile and a nice set of teeth. There! No one can say I didn't say ANYTHING nice about our sister...lol. 　 　 CD We shouldn't confuse legality with ethics. Sure she has a right to get on television and clown and coon and fullfill every negative stereotype that White America has used to demean Black women since slavery..... But is it ethical? Is it right? You mean to tell me that she's allowed to disgrace her own people just to pay the bills? That's almost like saying since I don't pay the Bird Mayn's bills I have no right to criticize him selling dope in the community. Where does it end for those who promote non-productive and even self destructive behavior to our young people? Even in that interview where she is supposedly being "herself"....look how she's sitting and carrying herself. And then look at how most of the other women who come on talk shows sit and behave. Tell me if you DON'T notice a difference. Listen to how she said her friend called her a "bitch" while encouraging her. Black women didn't call eachother bitches as a term of endearment UNTIL one or two comediennes started saying it back in the 90s and now it's in style for Black women to just disrepect eachother....that's the influence people like her have. Now granted Black women in America and other women from around the world may come from different circumstances, but as one who was in the military and probably saw the effects that war and an already abusive culture....I seriously doubt that YOU would deny that WHATEVER circumstances Black women in the United States come from they probably pale in comparison to what women coming from in the Middle East or other parts of Asia have been through. Except for a psychiatric (chemical) explaination such as the water and the foods eat having some sort of chemical effect on their behavior....there is no reason for so many of our Black girls in the United States to maintain such loud, boisterous, and masculine (fighting, cussing, violent outbursts) dispositions except them learning it from people like Leslie. African women who come to America are Blacker than we are with no admixture but aren't found behaving in that manner. Something is going on with many of our women and Black actresses like Leslie are being used to "normalize" it and make it seem as if it's just normal for "a sista" to be loud and obnoxious. I observed this as far back as the 90s with the Spice Girls....the lone Black member of the group Melanie B was known as "Scary Spice". She took on the role as the "bad girl" or the evil one with the tough attitude. Just like there's a history of trying to effeminize and emasculate Black men in the West... There's year of history of trying to masculinize Black women in order to disrupt the natural harmony of our family and community life in the West. This is all the more reason that I say we as a people need STANDARDS. When you have standards and clearly defined social rules, then it makes unacceptable behavior easier to point out and correct and it also makes it harder for those form outside the community to manipulate our youth. Leslie is more than just a sista trying to catch a break. Saturday Night Live has for years been used as a tool of social engineering which is why so many politicians routinely pop up on the show as guests. She is just a pawn in a larger game of influencing negative and counter-productive behavior in the society by influencing Black girls to act other than themselves. This causes anger and chaos in the community because too many Black girls grow up trying to act agressive and confrontational like men and then can't understand why so many Black men leave them and seek women OUTISDE of the race who were raised to be comfortable in their femininity. I'm sure you've seen this frustration of young Black females in some of the students you teach.

Fred Sanford said................. "I'm gonna be one 'til I'm a dead old man!"

Sara I don't think we disagree. I think we're just placing our individual emphasis on different aspects of the solution. However I will say that encouraging our people to get more college education is like encouraging people to put more icing/frosting on the plate but there's no cake to go under it. Higher education was meant to refine and expand upon a foundation that already exists; but Black people in America barely have a foundation in social and civil matters with which to BUILD that higher education up on. How you gonna go to school to be a doctor when you haven't even mastered the basics of what diet is best for Black people? Or your administering medicine that not only doesn't work for your people but may make them worse? How you gonna be an engineer and help others build tall sky scrapers downtown when YOUR neighborhood is falling apart and you can't even build a house from the ground up? You have a doctorate in bio-engineering and want to run off and work for Monsanto, but don't even own land and if you did don't have sense enough to farm it to feed yourself and your family. See what I mean? There's a BASE that needs to be focused on first before we push our children off to help another man build up HIS world. 　 Troy I think social media is actually making people socially weaker....more shy and self-centered in their own little world. When I was a teenager, if me or my boys wanted to meet girls we met them on the bus, in the mall, at school, on the street, around the block, anywhere. Now, a lot of people have gotten so shy and self centered that they are afraid to start a conversation with the person sitting next to them. I can't remember when I last saw a young man try to strike up a conversation with a female out of the blue. If you see it, it's usually a man over 40. It's hard to get next to them today because even when they're alone, as soon as these girls sit down by themselves they whip out their celly and start texting and their eyes light up. The older generation of Black men used to tell us they felt sorry for us and I didn't understand what they meant, but now I feel sorry for the younger generation of Black men coming up. This "virtual world" of social media is in my opinion disrupting the natural order of things and giving people false courage on-line while making them more cowardly when it comes to social situations in real life. Those same people attacking Leslie on social media probably would NEVER say those things to her face to face. 　 　 Mr Burns Again, the crux of my argument is NOT how Leslie looks but how she behaves. It really doesn't matter than she is from Memphis because you'll find her type all over America. Big, loud, brash, shameless women who are angry because society in general doesn't accept them with their unnatural behavior. But let them tell it, THEY aren't the problem. They'll claim this society can't accept a "strong Black woman". When I lived in New Orleans I heard them say the same thing about New Orleans women, I grew up hearing the same thing about Detroit women, in Atlanta they say them "Georgia Peaches" will cut you to the bone if get out of line, the same in Chicago, Los Angeles, ect....... The fact is, all over the United States too many Black women in urban areas have gotten a reputation for being loud and vulgar and actresses like Leslie helps to perpetuate that image whether she's like that in REAL LIFE or not. We should be ASHAMED of that image, not glorify it or try to defend it as some sort of "defense". You say Leslie's brash and masculine behavior is a defense mechanism for men acting shitty and disrespectful? Look at places like Pakistan and Iraq where the women are thoroughly oppressed and abused by men. These are environments where girls grow up being beaten, abused, killed, see their entire families killed in front of them. They've experieced and observed extreme trauma far beyond anything we have imagined in the inner cities of the United States yet when they come to America how many of them do you see acting like Leslie Jones? How many do you see fighting eachother in the street, or walking up and down the street cussing and threating people to fights or getting up in peoples faces wobbling their heads and bucking their eyes? You probably have NEVER seen any of these women do this. They, like Asian, African and other women come right over and fit in with other NORMAL women who carry themselves like ladies. They keep their voices mild and maintain a shyness about them. If growing up in a violent and sexist environment makes women violent and obnoxious, why aren't THOSE women behaving like some of the women you see in our uban communities? I say it's the opposite. I say because so many Black men HAVEN'T checked their daughters and sisters for their loud and obnoxious...un-lady like.....behavior, it's actually encouraged more of it. It appears that the Black community has lost much of it's "standards" of behavior and what it will tolerate. People are using the fact that Black people shouldn't imitate White people or hold their standards up as ideal...which is legitimate because we need to be ourselves.....as an excuse not to have ANY standards at all and just allow our women and men to behave any kind of way and accept it. No, I don't expect Black or Asian or Latina women to LOOK or ACT like White women, but I do expect them to look and act like WOMEN and stop using excuses for such demeaning and obnoxious...and yes MASCULINE (loud, aggressive, boisterous, in your face, confrontational, cussing, ect...) behavior. Finally, the only reason we're talking about women is because this THREAD is about Leslie. But best believe the Black man is in worse shape and is more deserving of criticism than the Black woman. But let us not make the mistake that many in the Black consciousness community do of believing that the Black woman is somehow santimonious and beyond reproach. No one is above criticism.

Be careful Troy..... That sounded like some sort of sexual proposition, to me.

What I find interesting is how Trump and many of his supporters are talking of the elections being "rigged". I really find it intersting because it's coming from Republicans who essentially rigged the 2000 election while Black people and the Democrat Party failed to really take them to task on it. How did we get to a point in this nation to where the perpetrators are playing the victims, while the real victims are silent? If you hear the term "conspiracy theorist" today, chances are it's not describing a Black man in a dashiki hanging out at the local barbershop telling you what "they" are trying to do to you.....bure more likely a prominent Republican Senator or mainstream talk show host. The issue of election fraud and corruption in the system that Blacks and Democrats in general SHOULD be pointing out and raising sand over but won't because they don't want to look "silly"....are now being used by right-wing Republicans as a way to keep the media and everyone else on the defensive. If you practice FAIRNESS....they'll call foul and accuse you of corruption and bias.

Troy & Cynique There are millions of dumb people out there PERIOD, who don't have enough intelligence to properly discern the information they're taking in. Those who run the media KNOW this and constantly take advantage of it. Why do you think smoking cigarettes is so popular? The first time people try cigarettes they start coughing and gagging....they hate it. But the media has made it seem like the "cool" or "rebel" thing to do and most smokers were dumb enough to fall for it. Or dumb enough to let peer pressure force them into doing something they personally disliked. And they to keep doing it until they are physiologically addicted. Speaking of peer pressure, don't underestimate the mob mentality. A lot of people who are ordinarily smart will still TRY to play stupid just to fit in with their friends who are less intelligent but they still hold in high regard. I've seen plenty of smart people act stupid thinking it was "cool". But more to this subject...... One of the biggest problems I've found among very smart people in general whether they're highly educated or just gifted in a lot of mother-wit is they continue to make the mistake in assuming that everyone is as smart as they are or can pick up on things as easily as them. If I go before a city council or a county or state board....most of these bodies are made up of lawyers or highly educated professionals. I constantly remind them that when they sit around discussing various laws to make....be sure to make them simple enough so that those on the lower end of average intelligence can easily understand them. Just because you and those you hang around think a certain way or would never fall for something, doesn't mean others will be able to think so clearly. Growing up, it was amazing to see how easily so many slow and half-crazy Black people willingly allowed themselves to be taken advantage of for entertainment purposes by White people whether they were teachers at school or at work. They played class clown for the teachers amusement or they'd come to work telling all types of stories about how they lived in the 'hood and ghetto life and tell their White co-workers who would look at them and smirk then talk about how stupid they were when they were gone. They saw little shame in their stupidity. The only people embarrassed were the other more intelligent Black people. Republicans KNOW how dumb the average American is and they constantly play on their stupidity with irrational lies and emotionalism. Democrats, liberals, and just thinking people in general stand around scratching their heads as to why so many people still support them against their very own interests.......because they make the mistake of believing everyone has the power to think for themselves. Not to divert the thread with a long rant but to answer your question Cynique, I don't frequent social media much. I only go on facebook when I have to such as promoting an event or being interviewed, and I don't do twitter at all. It's not so much of a protest, I just don't find it interesting. I don't see the point in it. I see the point in using drugs, going to prostitutes, gambling, overeating ect.....lol. They may be vices, but atleast they provide physical pleasure. What do you get out of posting all of your pictures on facebook and going back and forth with people over foolishness. Websites like THIS I love because I can have intelligent exchanges with people at my pleasure. But Instagram????? Twitter??? 　 Sara When I made my statement about a lot of people not liking my position concerning Black people and academia, that thread you refered to was actually the furthest thing from my mind. I was speaking from years of experience dealing with Black people who mistakenly believe that "education" (specifically formal academic education) will solve all of our problems. Whether it will or not is not the point, the point is MOST people will not be able to get a college education for one reason or another anyway, so that shouldn't be the goal or some standard of "normal". It's called HIGHER education for a reason....because most people shouldn't be able to attain it. As for Black people being workers and peasants without higher education. I live in southeast Michigan where there are close to a million people of Middle Eastern descent. The vast majority of those men.....DO NOT have a college education. Infact, many of them came to America without the equivalent of a high school diploma, and many of the boys who are born and raised IN the United States end up getting kicked out of school for disciplinary problems. .....yet they own more businesses per capita than Whites, Blacks, and Latinos put together. They also own more businesses per capita than Asians, most of whom are highly educated. They make BIG MONEY....why? Because they have their OWN businesses with their OWN networks. They aren't worried about being peasants, serfs, and slaves in another man's kingdom because they are too busy building their OWN. When they DO go to school, it's not to work in a White institution but to help another Arab/Chaldean institution that needs their skill. If more Black people would focus on skilled trades, owning their own businesses, and even using the higher education they DO receive to build up their OWN communities instead of educating themselves in order to get a better position in somebody else's.....we would make far more progress.

Cynique Yes, I really believe that many Black people DON'T have enough sense to know when someone is subliminally making fun of them and being psychologically racist....so it must be pointed out. They must be educated on it or they will continue to be taken advantage of. Some people don't like it when I say that most Black people either can not or will not achieve college degrees so we should focus more on skilled trades and small businesses. But I believe it's the truth either it sounds sweet to the ears or not. AfroAmericans are in a vulnerable condition in this nation and we can't afford to assume As far as the stereotypical roles of Black women..... A) Sure there are a lot of attractive Black women in Hollywood, but like I said they aren't usually paired WITH White women. Most White women have enough pride and sense not to let herself be portrayed as inferior by being paired next to a better looking Black woman. But many Black women see no shame in acting right next to a White woman who may be considered more attractive.....they feel no embarassment by it because so many have been taught to see themselves in the inferior role anyway. The difference between the stereotypical roles that White and most Latina women play and those Black women play is the "dumb blonde" and "Latina spit-fire" roles still grant the White and Latina woman her sense of womanhood and femininity. Those roles still make them look "cute" and lady like....where as the ghetto tramp and hoodrat roles so many of our sisters play takes away their femininity and makes them look like freakish "he/shes" who's very gender is questionable. Just like Hollywood has a history of raising questions about Black men's manhood, they tend to raise the same questions about the Black woman's womanhood. And again, many of our people....I believe...do not have enough psychoanalytical knowledge to pick up on this, so it MUST be pointed out.

Cynique The Unted States has been divided for a long long time. The only difference today is thanks to Trump a lot of Black and Brown people are waking up to that reality. I'm glad Trump is saying what he's saying because for nearly 30 years Mexicans and Arabs have routinely voted against their own interests and supported the Republican party believing in their deceptive moral rhetoric. Now that the TRUTH is coming out about what Republicans really stand for and believe, Mexicans and Arabs are waking up cranky as hell. They're finally starting to feel that maybe Black people may have a point to all the "complaining" we do.

You all thought it was funny but I actually didn't find the skit funny in the least. I sort of took offense to it's demoralizing portrayl of urban Black women. The image Leslie seems to be an expert at potraying. Which is probably why she was hired by SNL in the first place. My little analysis of the skit was...... Here you got a White man who plays an "intelligent well spoken man" but has to pretend to talk like an uncouth ghetto Black woman (althought it's not actually called that)...just to keep his job. I was just waiting and waiting....because I knew it was coming....when Leslie's character was going to utter something racist just to give the audience the impression that urban Black people are not only rude and ghetto but racist against Whites...therefore justifying the racism that is practiced against them in REAL LIFE. And like clockwork-right at the end she has to mention his race and call him a "White so-n-so". Why did the writers feel the need to inject race into this skit which would have been just as "funny" without any racial remarks? And why did they choose...as SNL USUALLY DOES...to make the Black person the racist?? On top of the racial and cultural stereotypes, Leslie is portrayed as a verbally abusing boss who doesn't know how to speak to her employees, again.....which will subconciously justify the racist and unreasonable behavior of some White managers toward THEIR Black employees in REAL LIFE. People must understand that Leslie's behavior acts like a REVERSE catharsis, sort of like the original Birth of a Nation movie. Instead of giving racists an outlet for thier own racism by seeing it on television, it actually acts as a JUSTIFICATION by providing made up false scenarios that they can subconsciously point to and say, "Well look...they're rude, ghetto, and even racist themselves so I'm just given them a taste of their own medicine!". CD This has nothing to do with Leslie's skin color. There are women much darker than her....like Naomi Campbell and Lauryn Hill....who are very beautiful. 　 Also, I'm not the best looking brother in the world myself so I'm not beating up on Leslie because of the way she LOOKS. (although I must say that one of the tricks I've observed in the media is that many Whites love to contrast themselves with Black people in the way of taking an attractive White woman and featuring them in the same movie with an unattractive Black woman; or taking a wealthy intelligent White man and pair him with a broke ass idiotic Black man to give the audience an impression of White superiority) It's all about Leslies loud and manish behavior that makes her such a turn off. No, she's not the most attractive person....but she's not deformed or hideous either. If she'd just doll herself up and act like a lady both on and off camera, she wouldn't have so many problems. 　 　 Grace Jones ???? Come on brother....that woman is scary!

Lol....actually, Michael Moore thinks Trump will get in! He knows how misinformed and easily manipulated so many of the voters are and doesn't have a lot of confidence in them making the right decision. Being from Michigan, I'm sure he...like me...remembers the Reagan Democrats. Unionized and traditionally Democrat factory workers who deliberately voted for Ronald Reagan because they believed that he was going to protect them from "evil Communists". I think President Obama said something very powerful in his speech that if the Democrats really want to capture the "middle class" and White working class voters they'll continue to drill the point over and over again. He said that there is no need to MAKE America great.....America is ALREADY a great nation. All this time I've heard the Trump campaing use the term "Make America great again" and it wasn't until listening to the President's speech that I realize the irony in so many conservitive Republicans who claim America is the greatest nation on Earth going around basically insinuating that America isn't great anymore and has to be MADE great again.

Troy I understand your position clearly. I already recognize that there is more to making a woman appealing than just her looks. Many people think Serena Williams looks better than her sister Venus (I don't) but when it comes to cuffing her up and making her "wifey".....I and most of the brothers I know would take Venus in a heart beat OVER Serena because of her milder and a more shy personality which most find very feminine and more agreeable. But your point about personality is a MOOT one in this case because we KNOW what Leslie's personality is like...and it's not sweet. If you notice, Leslie's ATTITUDE....not her looks....have been the main focal point of my criticizm of her. So there is no need for hypotheticals and "what if's" in this case because I have enough facts to come to a sound conclusion regarding her over-all attractiveness IN MY OPINION. Add to that the fact that she routinely disgraces the Black community in general and Black women in particular on a weely basis with her obnoxious and almost hyper-masculine behavior broadcasting and re-enforcing negative stereotypes that so many around the world have about AfroAmerican women...... 　 ....and I'd say she must be auditioning for "Queen Coon of the Year" to the best of her abilities.

One of the things I noticed is that while she is beating and yelling at her daughter for putting revealing pictures of herself on-line.......SHE TOO is dressed in booty-shorts showing all of her legs and thighs. Her shorts are skimpier than her daughters! Children learn their roles in life by WATCHING adults, not necessarily listening to them. If she grows up watching her mother put on skimpy and sexy clothes to get attention, she's learning that she too should also do this to achieve the same effect. So the mother is angry at her daughter for showing her body on the internet, but SHE makes a video featuring herself in skimpy little shorts beating her daughter and puts that video on facebook....twisted logic. Like Juvenile said....she got it from her mamma.

Can you prove that Black Americans are descendants of Israel? And what about the other Africans on the continent.....are they also Hebrews or Israelites? According to the Bible the word "Israel" means "he who fights with God" after Jacob wrestle with an angel. Why would you want to claim descent from one who tries to fight with God or His angels?

Troy Damn....lol. That's a lot of hypotheticals. That's like asking, If you had a choice between being a slave who was well fed, well clothed, had the kindest master in the world, who never harmed you --or being a free man who was broke, hungry, living in the woods, and constantly on the run from slave traders who were trying to enslave you........which would you choose, slavery or freedom? Even in the hypothetical scenario you laid out above between the two women, it would be hard for me to choose Leslie because you neglected to include the gender qualifiers of beauty and femininity and they are the main traits that make a woman attractive to the opposite sex. Femininity and beauty go a long way. Even with the description you gave, to me Lupita looks more beautiful and more feminine and those particular traits COMPEL me to incline toward her over a more masculine and domineering Leslie despite her intellectual and social graces. The sexual aspect aside, I have plenty of MALE associates who are brilliant, know how to make money, and are great conversationalists to kick it with.....but I'm not trying to get with them. Because I'm not attracted to masculinity. Again, it's not JUST the way Leslie looks that I find unattractive...though she's not the best looking sista in the world. But I probably could even get past that IF she had a nice mild feminine attitude instead of being so "manish" and obnoxious as if she can FORCE people into accepting her as attractive. I want to feel sorry for her and what she's been going through, but part of me says when a woman carries herself in such a pushy and negatively stereotypical way....she needs to have a little sense cyber slapped into her. I just wish it was done by other Black women instead of racist White trolls who are just using this as an excuse to cloak their racism.

Thanx Sara!

Although it would be nice to have a woman president, initially I hadn't planned to vote for either one of them based on principle. But now it appears that unless Hillary wins by a landslide in November, we may just see a repeat of the 2000 fiasco where all types of games were being played with ballots and at polling stations. If Trump comes anywhere near 45% or even 40% of the actual vote, these Republican Governors and other operatives at the state and local level will do their damnedest to manipulate the results and try to get their guy in. Perhaps for the first time in a long time literally ALL votes will count in this one to make sure the victory is clear and indisputable.

I don't say this much but, we need to stop using "racism" as an excuse to explain away every act of negativity experienced by Black people from outside. Sometimes the negativity is justified and at other times even when it's NOT justified it has little to nothing to do with the actual race of the victim. 　 Sara I'm glad you agree. We need to maintain our own standards of beauty.....but we do need standards. BTW, I don't think she's funny either. I think she's obnoxious. I try not to be sexist and pick on her behavior when a lot of male comics act the same way but what really offends me is how she likes to cloak herself in some sort of "Black womanhood" cape as if how she looks and acts is the avatar for Black American femininity. Cynique It's too bad that the double standard comes into play here. Because loud burly black men are not subjected to as much scrutiny or criticism as bodacious black women, and while black women are expected to be demure ladies, nobody calls out black dudes for not being more gentlemanly. There is indeed a double standard, but it's not unwarranted. Ofcourse loud burly men aren't scrutinized because being loud and aggressive are masculine traits. In a more natural setting (and some urban settings) a big loud aggressive man is seen as a protector......a defender of the family or neighborhood. What can a loud burly woman do besides get herself and everyone around her killed for saying too much of the wrong things to the wrong people....lol. Or get laughed at and made fun of embarrassing her family. Women can't look or act like men and get treated the same, just like a man can't look or act like a woman and expect people to accept him the same. It goes against the very basics of human nature. 　 　 "Cuteness" knows no race or ethnicity. It is found in all women possessing a universal symmetry known as the golden triangle, wherein the facial features in a round face are arranged in a certain way that involve large, slighted-slanted wide-set eyes, curvaceous lips and a button nose This is true. Rather than "cuteness" I prefer to use the word "attractiveness" which is biological as opposed to "beautiful" which is mostly based on cultural standards. Nice smooth skin, soft features, nice teeth, and a slim but well curved body are features that make a woman ATTRACTIVE regardless of race or culture. Smooth skin, thick hair, and a slim muscular body is seen as attractive for men regardless of race or nationality. Where as in one culture long blond hair is considered "beautiful" and in other cultures tribal scars are considered beautiful and in yet another a very large butt is considered beautiful. But attractive features are universal and we just can't make it any other way. Troy For all we know Kerry can be truly ugly and Leslie can indeed be beautiful. But I guess that depends upon how one defines "beauty." If we define beauty solely by northern european standards physical standards (tall, slim, blonde, blue eyed) then @Pioneer1, I have news for you; very few Black people are "beautiful" by that definition But I'm not using European standards of beauty, I'm using UNIVERSAL MALE standards of beauty! Whether you go to Africa, Europe, South America, the Australian bush....all straight men look for certain traits in women that they deem as attractive that have nothing to do with race. Most men like women with delicate small features relative to their facial size, smooth skin, smaller bone structure, big eyes, light voices, and a mild and often times meek attitude. Leslie possesses few of these traits. If people think Leslie was called an ape or gorilla simply because she's a Black woman then look at women like Lauryn Hill, or Lupita Nyong'o.... These women are both dark skinned and have kinky hair and are among the most beautiful women in the world. .....have you heard any reports of THEM being called "ape" or "gorilla"??? Any reports of Kerry Washington being called a monkey or baboon? Naw. Let's keep it real, Leslie's treatment isn't because people can't appreciate her "beauty", it's just that she isn't what most men of ANY race consider attractive and her attitude makes it even worse.

　 Obama clearly doesn't have too much allegiance to the Black community. My example of him being a community organizer in one of America's largest Black communities was just to illustrate the fact that he KNOWS how to help the Black community. He knows the issues that we are concerned with whether he actually addresses them or not. .....as opposed to a Sanders who may not be as intimately familiar with the needs of Black America regardless of how sincere his intentions may be to help. -A politician who knows the needs of Black America and desires to help would increase the amount of well trained law enforcement in urban areas with a focus on violence and not minor offenses and drug violations. -A politician who wants to help Black people but don't have a clue will hear reports of police brutality and reduce the amount of police officer and piss them off with a lot of sensitivity training that will lead to an increase in crime. -A politician who knows the needs of Black America and desires to help would....like Roosevelt...actually use his powers to build jobs with decent wages and hire the unemployed directly for immediate financial relief. -A politician who just wants to help poor Black people but doesn't really know how will increase welfare programs that do little more than keep Black people in poverty and dependence. The only jobs created would be for young White college graduates who come to the ghetto to do social work and manage charities.

Troy said: because power comes from ownership, and Black women don't own Twitter 'nuff said. End of conversation.

I'm sure some people will not like what I'm about to say but....... Leslie isn't catching hell because she's a Black woman. Her problem is she's not a very attractive woman anyway, and her masculine loud and obnoxious behavior just adds to the animosity that many people have toward her. But because she's a Black woman she's using racism to explain away why so many men criticize her. Yes there's been a few ape and gorilla remarks and perhaps it is racial, but plenty of unattractive White women are compared to pigs and other animals by the cruel and immature. But they can't say it's because society does not appreciate the "beauty of White women"....they have to just deal with it. Unattractive women tend to just catch it regardless of their color. It's not necessarily a racial thing but a sexist and patriarchal thing where women are still judged more by their looks than anything else. I think she's too "manish" or masculine personally, and it seems this type of Black woman is being promoted in some circles as if that's supposed to be a good thing. Too many of our girls aren't being taught how to be "ladies". They're just being allowed to grow up with no culture or role to attain. Perhaps that's a good thing, but if you're trying to attract men who by nature seek a feminine balance in their women...it's counter-productive. Masculinity is good for MEN, I don't think it's very good for women unless you're trying to attract another woman. Now I've seen pictures of Leslie made-up and in revealing clothes smiling, and she can be quite appealing when she wants to. But as Cynique points out her overbearing obnoxious attitude really puts her over the top. Cynique brought up a good point about Kerry Washington as she was one of the first women who came to my mind as an example of a beautiful well behaved Black "lady" as opposed to a loud mouthed trampish woman. And there are plenty of other beautiful Black women of all shades who know how to act. Leslie in no way represents Black beauty. I touched on this subject a little while back when we were talking about young Black girls who think they're ugly. We need to stop telling Black women and Black girls that they are beautiful REGARDLESS as to how they look or act....because it will definately cause more harm than good. You don't tell a bunch of 400 pound 8th grade girls with acne how "beautiful" they are and if the world doesn't see it then that's "their problem". You're setting them up for failure and confusion in life. Am I saying you call them ugly and degrade them? Hell no. But we as Black people need to have our own standards of beauty and maintain them and TEACH our young men and women HOW to attain beauty by eating right, exercising, avoiding self destructive habits, and most of all CARRYING themselves in a proper manner. I'd love for Black women in Hollywood to step up on this one and let the world know that no matter how cruel they may have been to Leslie, she in no way represents "Black female beauty" so don't even go there.

A lot of people confuse "community organizer" with "community activist". Community activists are generally the people you see on the street protesting, feeding the homeless, and generally being vocal about the issues. On the other hand a community organizer does just that..... They are typically professionals (professors, lawyers, ect.....) or recent college graduates who use their intellectual and professional skills to help organize the community around a common cause. They generally work behind the scene and are often the liason between the activists on the front lines and the establishment who have the power to change the policies ill-affecting the community. With his nuanced and relatively suppressed personality, Obama never took me as an "activist" but I definately could see him an an organizer.

Cynique One person's bad cop is another one's law enforcement officer. I agree. A cop can be morally "bad" but if the laws he's enforcing are bad in and of themselves then he'd actually be considered a good cop doing his job. For example....... If the state closes the public mental hospitals and dump thousands of mentally ill people on the street and then turn around and give police officers the right to use deadly force against anyone acting erratic or that they perceive as a threat....they could literally kill hundreds of people in the street and have it justified by law. The term "police" comes from the word "policy"...because they are the authority who enforce the POLICIES of the state. If the state is producing bad laws/policies then the police who enforce them will be found doing that which is morally wrong but that which they are legally obligated to do. Troy The thing I've noticed about White men....and I've noticed this since I was a teenager....is that most of them LOVE authority. They love telling people what to do and making them do it. Whether it's law enforcement, or just being a manager or supervisor on a job. It's a power trip for so many. Even if the job does't pay much or you don't get a financial raise upon becoming manager I've seen White people accept the stress of management and supervisory positions that pay next to minimum wage.....just for the satisfaction of bossing people around and having the power to fire them or send them home. Just look at a lot of middle aged to older White men who could be truck drivers or construction constractors..... Look at how they wear their cell phones....on their hip like it's a weapon. For most I don't think it's even about the money so much as the power to tell other people what to do and MAKE them do it. The image and sense of power and authority is almost intoxicating to a lot of White males and it carries over to the police force.

Christianity...atleast as it was introduced to the Black race by Europeans...has been among the most morally destructive weapons used. Europeans USED Christianity to conquere and subjegate Black people by forcing a religion on them that goes almost completely against common sense and their very nature. Besides forcing monogomous marriage on Black people which goes against the polygamous nature of most Black men.....the doctrine basically permits people to do whatever the hell they want to do as long as they "believe in Jesus". This allows for a morally degenerate society who maintain false beliefs of salvation. So we shouldn't be suprised if we find adulterers, murderers, cheats, and every other moral or social degenerate in the church....because the "god" they worship tells them to "come as they are" and not worry about anyone judging them. Once a community or society is morally degenerated, there's too much chaos and self-destruction for elevated thought and progress. People are too busy fighting and are too distrustful of eachother to build anything of substance.

Cynique Oprah is short when she's standing next to Gayle King! At any rate, we're not just looking at these figures through the eyes of AfroAmericans ONLY but also the eyes of the White majority and how THEY perceive Obama or Oprah. To most White Americans Oprah is a dark skinned woman. Now if you want to compare her to Michael Jordan or Flava Flav, well....I recon she's not that dark. I'm a little curious, what do you mean by Obama's "regular" features...??? As for Obama's choice in a wife, considering his ambitions, I don't think he would've chosen a plump, high-school educated dark skinned woman to fall in love with. He reserved his affections for someone who suited his purposes. Someone who "suits his purposes"??????? You talk as if the man was a controlled experiment since birth and conspired to get the perfect wife for his generated image as if she's just one piece in his chess game.....lol. Michelle is smart and very ambitious, but she doesn't exactly fit the bill of a "trophy wife" or the type of woman that a man would marry just for the image. Actually she seems more like the active "Hillary Clinton" type who has her own agenda and sees herself more as a PARTNER, than a supporter of another man and his ambitions. Ofcourse he probably wouldn't have chosen a woman with a mere highschool education because for one thing she wouldn't be in his circle for them to meet. President Obama doesn't take me as the type that went around hitting on random women in the street and sweating the cashiers at KFC and Walmart for "them digits"...lol. Nor would a woman of low education feel comfortable around him anyway...her self esteem would alway be threatened by the intellectual and academic aura of him and his collegues. Most professionals meet their spouses WITH IN their profession. Why? Because most professionals are so focused on what they're doing they don't have time to look OUTSIDE for potential mates and the only way they do find one....if they ever find one...is if they happen to meet another professional they are immediately attracted to. I'm sure they met at some work or academic related function as most professional marriages go as only another lawyer could have satisfied him intellectually and emotionally. Besides, unless they have a lot of money to offer or wealth connections......who is gifted enough in discerning human personalities to know how valuable a potential spouse will be to one's future political ambitions?

I don't think Obama looks like the typical "mulatto" most American's are used to seeing. His skin isn't that light and his hair definately isn't the texture of most mixed people. Look at that kinky hair. Looks like Michael Jackson when he was still with the Jackson 5. He looks more "Black" that mixed to me. There is nothing about his phenotype that I see would cause White society in general to treat him any different than any other young AfroAmerican man. Unless Trump was right about him being born and raised in a village in Kenya, he undoubtably experienced America as a Black male growing up and intimately knows the stresses and problems Black people face in this society. As far as his accomplishments....... I don't think his looks play as big of a role as you suggest. I believe his brain and articulation were the biggest factors for his elevating increasingly through this nation's best academic institutions as well as his successful political career. American politics and acadamia are largely controled by Anglo-Saxon "old establishment" White people who are well known for seeing ALL people of color as the same (meaning "not White") regardless as to how light or dark they may be. Perhaps his lighter skinned may have been impressive to a darker skinned MICHELLE....lol....but not to those White folks running the country. They just want to know is he smart enough to help them carry on their traditions and keep the money flowing in. Remember...... A short fat dark skinned woman named Oprah (who is also brilliant) had more clout and prestige in America than even HIM and he had to go to HER for help launch his national image.