Pioneer1

Ya know....... I'd really....really.....REALLY....like this issue to go away. I do not want Leslie to be the spokeswoman or poster child for Black women and their frustrations. I really don't. All of the beautiful, feminine, absolutely professional Black women out there who have a story to tell.....let us focus on THEM. I'd rather Gabby Douglas or some other sister having a hard time with social media right now get the attention. Not to beat up on Leslie because she certainly doesn't deserve to be harassed or called an ape, but there are far more Black women out there who are not only better representations of Black womanhood but also have sadder stories to tell about social media harassment and racism than Leslie and what's going on with her.

Unlike many if not most "conscious" Black people in the United States, I consider myself an American. Many claim we are not real Americans because of how we are treated or say that we are just Africans IN America and love to use the analogy Malcolm X made about kittens in an oven. I disagree and say we are just as American if not MORE American than even the average White American because our roots go back much deeper in this nation. Not only are we American constitutionally speaking.....but by virtue of being born on this land, having dozens of generations of ancestry in this land, and most of us having some Native American ancestry. I don't think it was a good move for Kaepernick to protest the American flag because not only does it NOT solve the racial problems in America, it actually exacerbates them and angers a lot of non-White and non-Black people around the world as well as inside of the U.S. who see him as ungrateful for the opportunities this nation has given him. Many of these people know that if he would do that in THEIR country he would be imprisoned or even worse. I totally understand where he's coming from and I respect his right to do what he did, but you have to really sit down and think about what you're doing, why you're doing it, and most importantly what results you're trying to achieve. If he intended to piss off a lot of White people....he achieved that. But if he intended to bring attention to the race problem in America.....that wasn't necessary because everyone KNOWS there is a race problem in America. If his intention was to help Black people in some way.....how? Again, not beating up on the brother for what he did because he didn't hurt anyone and he exercised his right.....but how does THIS help in any way? Black people have always known there was a race problem in America so doing this isn't making them more aware than they already are. As far as his Egyptian girlfriend goes......... I'm looking at her and looking at him. He may be mixed but he certainly doesn't look Black, he looks like an Arab. I'm willing to be that she doesn't even see him as a Black man so she probably is dating him because he looks like the Arab Egyptian men she's used to being around. Racism exists in Egypt as intensley as it does in the United States between the native Black Egyptians (Nubians) and the Arabs, Persians, and other Caucasians who invaded that land centuries ago. I wonder does SHE protest her own nation's race problem the way Kaepernick protests his own.....or does she do like most Arabs and deny the anti-Black racism that exists in the Middle East?

CD I didn't say there was anything "wrong" with women being strong. But seeing as how physical strength is primarily a MASCULINE trait among humans, it only makes sense that it wouldn't be a desirable trait for most women to have. It's what women look for in men, but not necessarily what men look for in women. Most men who are looking for "strong women" are looking for someone to take care of them... LOL. But I'm not going to qualify or disqualify it from a moral point of view. It's no more "wrong" for a woman to be masculine than it is for someone to be lazy, obese, or stupid..... These are generally undesirable characteristics that often put people at odds with their social surroundings, but I'm not the one to say whether or not they are "wrong". As far as Black women being oversexed. I don't think Black women are actually promoted ENOUGH sexually, especially in a positive light. And there ARE positive and negative sexualities. White women's bodies are show far more often than Black women. Almost every movie has them getting naked showing their breasts, butt, and even pubic hair. Their sexuality is promoted far more than Black women. But it's usually done in a posivite light that promotes and glorifies them, while Black women are often portrayed in slutty prostitutish ways that make them look vulgar and desparate or like trifling gold diggers.

Cynique I seriously think it's a meme. I think social engineers get together from time to time and put out new words and phrases just to see how much influence they have over people. They start showing movies or producing television shows where people are told to talk a certain way and then they sit back and wait to see how quickly it influences the public and people actually begin to talk that way. I also agree that Obama has a Black vibe or swag. He has a lot of "coolness" about himself and tremendous confidence that comes with being as brilliant as he is intellectually. The coolness and brilliance work together to generate powerful charisma. You can see how he struts when he walks as well as how he gives men "bro hugs" shaking one hand while embracing with the other that Black men started and others are just now catching up to. No other president would have even ATTEMPTED this:

EMM Can you prove your a so-called African-American? No. Nor did I call myself an African-American...so-called or otherwise. Can you prove the so-called Jewish are Jews? No more than you can prove they aren't. Do you question the identity of the so-called Jewish people or Israeli? I used to, when it was important to me. Not any more. You never awaken asking Who I Am? If someone in 2016 is still using English so broken as "who I am"....maybe they need to go BACK to sleep....lol. What's your nationality? American. Anyone born on U.S. soil is a U.S. citizen. Israel means one who fights with God? It does according to the Bible you quote from...... Genesis ch.32: 22 That night Jacob got up and took his two wives, his two female servants and his eleven sons and crossed the ford of the Jabbok. 23 After he had sent them across the stream, he sent over all his possessions. 24 So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. 25 When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. 26 Then the man said, "Let me go, for it is daybreak." But Jacob replied, "I will not let you go unless you bless me." 27 The man asked him, "What is your name?" "Jacob," he answered. 28 Then the man said, "Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome." According to these scriptures, he struggled with God AND other humans. According to the scriptures the nation of Israel went around from kingdom to kingdom slaughtering men, women, and children and taking land from people who did absolutely NOTHING to them.....claiming "God" sent them to do it. And THAT'S the people you want to identify yourself with? As far as the rest of your statements concerning the suffering the descendants of slaves are going through and the lack of self knowledge...... Can you show me the descendants of slave who have RECEIVED this knowledge and are now HEALTHY, RICH, with NICE HOMES, and are TECHNOLOGICALLY MORE ADVANCED than the other descendants of slaves? If not, how do we know this particular knowledge that you're promoting is the solution unless it puts you in a superior condition to those who lack it?

Cynique When I say a "white-girl vibe" it's not about using proper grammar or presenting oneself in a wholesome way. It's a very subtle thing. Simone is perky, and the cadence and timbre of her speech is in the white teen age girl vernacular. I'd be willing to bet that she is also a Taylor Swift fan. Just an observation on my part and I'm sure she couldn't care less about my assessment. Obviously, with her fame and fortune she can act anyway she wants. I know what you meant. It's that overly cheerful almost "fake" type of peppiness that White Americans are world renown for. Also making declarative statements with a QUESTIONING inflexion on the end of it is clearly a post modern White youth thing along with beginning statements with "So...". People are often a product of their environment and being so close to her White teammates.... Whether she actually "dug"...I mean was spiritually moved....by Taylor Swift or Black Keys or any other type of music listened to by a predominately White American audience, matters less than the fact that she has to know something about these artists and other important aspects of middle class White American culture just to get along with her fellow teammates as well as the various circles she has to move in. What I like about her is the cheerful and seemingly positive disposition regardless of the cultural/ethnic package it's presented in. If she spoke in Ebonics and did her performance routines to rap music I'd be just as proud of her as long as she had that million dollar smile and upbeat attitude because I know that type of positivity is sorely needed in the Black community. I'm not saying Black people should walk around with a fake grin on their faces all day or pretend to feel other than they do. But even among eachother if we would be kinder, smile more, get rid of the "hardness" and the walls of defense we often put up around eachother and act more cheerful and dare I say "gentle" around eachother, I think there would be a lot more peace in our communities. Back when I thought it was wise to "stay" with women, what used to get me was how the woman I met at work who was all smiles, peppy, with a high feminine voice could change so quickly once she got home, and turns into a loud, cussing, hoarse voiced, ghetto diva.

Cynique If she was a feminine looking hermaphrodite who wanted to compete with men in a track and field event like high jumping or pole vaulting, would the men feel resentful? They'd probably see it as a joke. Certainly they wouldn't resent it because the lower testosterone levels of a hermaphrodite would pose less of a serious challenge to their competition. So some of them would probably WELCOME him/her. Caster easily won that race with those women beccause he/she probably ISN'T a woman. Troy No. But the question is moot, because "she" would not be competitive with male athletes--certainly not world class athletes. Excellent answer. Men obviously have more testosterone than women which gives them a natural edge in strength and endurance....which is why they are generally not allowed to compete together. Now if Caster is indeed a male or even a hermaphrodite....it would be unfair for him/her to compete with other women because of that obvious physical advantages of testosterone production. Which is why it doesn't make any sense to me why if you KNOW an individual is producing more testosterone than they naturally should....why haven't you just BANNED them....instead of putting them on some sort of hormone suppressing medication? That's like letting a heavy weight boxer fight a light weight but making him lighten up on his punching power and be sure not to use his body mass to wear down his opponent. Hell, if he's gotta do all of that just for it to be "fair"...they have no business fighting in the first place. Find another lightweight....or put him with a heavyweight. CD I don't think Black women are being masculinated. I think that may be one of the most reaching discussion points I've seen. Leslie is an anomaly, and I still don't consider her behavior masculine... it's a role. Honestly, I don't think anyone can show me the promotion of masculine women anywhere. I think women are actually depicted as oversexed objects most of the time. I literally can't think of one woman that is promoted in mainstream media that looks masculine. Not one. Ok, let's start with the oft repeated term for the past 50 years, "Strong Black woman". How many women of other races have you heard repeatedly described as "strong"??? Then we get into how the media makes a big deal over Michelle Obama's arms and how toned and muscular they are. The media constantly promotes and glorifies the muscularity of Serena Williams. And just look at this photo of our beloved Simone Biles and her teamates in bikinis: All they could do was talk about how "nice" and muscular those girl's abs are. Surely there are those IN the main stream who are promoting the masculinization of women in general and especially the Black woman. Let me be clear....... I think a woman should be allowed to dress however she wishes to dress and a man should be allowed to do the same. If a woman wants to imitate a man and vice versa.....it should be allowed. But that doesn't mean I have to ignore it or not be supicious of the reasoning BEHIND the promotion of such confusion.

Sara Even if you don't like her......lol @ "if"... Aren't you amazed that an 83 year old woman is still sharp enough to keep up on the internet and social media and even engage in back and forth battles with those younger than she?

Troy and Sara You guys make my point. There ARE tests that can easily determine what sex a person is, but they either AREN'T doing them on Caster or they HAVE done them and aren't making the results known. Something is very suspicious about why they are keeping this controversy going because it's not that hard to prove whether or not a person is real woman. Hell, they only have 3 choices: Male Female Hermaprodite And even if Caster is shown to be a true hermaphrodite with both sets of genitals and an even balance of hormonal chemistry then he/she should be disqualified from competing with the women....period. They're keeping this going....I believe...as a slight insult to Black women. It's also a way of attempting to "normalize" the masculine image of Black women in the public eye while keeping the image of the White woman feminine. And Sara..... What you're seeing is the "sister" AFTER he/she was given hormonal treatment to suppress the large amount of testosterone he/she was producing that kept him/her from competing! They didn't do any decisive tests that would have put to rest any doubts about his/her sex, but the little testing they DID do had clearly determined that his/her testosterone levels were that of a MAN! So in order to compete he/she had to take medication to suppress it and bring it down to withing the "normal" range for females. So that photo is AFTER the treatment. There's no telling WHAT he/she looked like before the treatments. This entire thing is a farse and insult as far as I'm concerned. I'm in no way blaming Caster Semenya (even his/her NAME has "semen" in it) for being born how he/she is. He/she can't help it and there are indeed people who are hermaphrodites. My problem is with the sports media who is exploiting his/her condition and using it for a negative agenda.

Troy　 I don't know about other's, but when I think of the South side of Chicago I don't necessarily think of ghetto or something negative. I just think of a lot of Black people in houses and Black businesses. Remember though, Barack's pre-presidential image was more decorated by his community organizing creditials that he earned (or atleast acquired) while active in Chicago's Black communities....more so than his academic, legislative, or even familial background. But you know how Americans (of ALL races) love "rags to riches" stories! They love the underdog success tales. They like hearing stories about average people or atleast people from average or below average backgrounds finding success in life whether it's in romance or finance. If they had promoted the movie as 2 Black professionals of above average intelligence living in an upscale neighborhood who ended up meeting eachother at their good well paying jobs....do you think it would attract much of an audience? Much of their targeted audience consists of working class Black folks and those from the lower end of their professions who are struggling to pay the rent and hold down the jobs they got. They wanna dream a little....lol. I'm still angry about the "8 Mile" movie which lied all the way through the film portraying Eminem as a struggling White rapper who came from a trailer park in Detroit. For one thing there are no trailer parks in Detroit, and 2nd and most important Eminem isn't even from Detroit....he's from Kansas. Hollywood does what it wants to do and relies on the ignorance of the public for assistance. But you know how Hollywood likes to manipulate the facts and embellish stories for the psychological effect of making the average person watching it fantasize themselves being in that very situation and making it big like the people they admire. 　 　 Cynique I can't argue with you over the basketball team and their behavior, I really didn't see it. Unless you're talking about a particular incident....I think that Usain is actually just being his very charismatic self. He's a tall good looking (can I say that as man?) brother who puts on a show for the crowd and they love it and can't get enough. Which is again, why I can't figure out why I don't hear about more of these olympic women talking about having a crush on HIM instead of some "Zach Ephron" character. I've heard it before in the past said by older men, but now I'm starting to really believe there is some sort of attempt to brainwash our young women into finding femininity and "boyishness" more attractive than raw masculinity. They say it started with Elvis and how the media promoted this "pretty" looks and hair over the more masculine John Wayne. About that "white girl" vibe........ Perhaps you're right. But I think it's kind of a shame that it's gotten to the point in our community today that when you see a Black girl who's clean, wholesome, and healthy with a wonderful smile and wonderful attitude....we associate it with White girls. I'm not saying YOU'RE doing this. But I'm saying, I see it in society where being "Black" in America often means being sloppy, careless, and lazy in speech and behavior. Too often when Black people want to improve themselves they have to leave the Black neighborhood and their Black friends and get with the "white folks"....lol. You wanna eat right? Leave the ghetto and hang out at the Whole Foods market in the wealthy White suburbs. Wanna get in shape? Leave them sistaz alone and get with them White womenz and start doing yoga...in a few days you'll be carrying around a rolled up yoga mat tucked under your arms and acting White...lol Again, this is even more a reason why we need to develop our own cultural norms and standards so that when we succeed we won't be accused of acting or being White "out of character" for our race, but just another example of Black exemplary achievement.

Sara Sounds like a plan to me. Just tell me when to stop! Only thing is.... When we're finished, you're going to have to give me a few minutes before I can start peeing again.

Peace and love to you Cynique Congradulations for gracing us another year with your presence! I'm no prophet or soothsayer but something is telling me that with the way things are going on this planet right now....within another 5 or 6 years there may be some events coming up that we'd all be eternally grateful to have lived long enough to witness.

Troy I'm not sure if you were joking a bit with your question, but perhaps they didn't feel the public would be familiar with Chicago's neighborhoods enough to know what or where Hyde Park was. Plus there's something to be said about the psychological effect of the wording of the title. You know the term "South Side" like "Harlem" or "Watts" evokes all types of images and perceptions of Blackness and Black culture. If you're just meeting me and I told you I came from Chicago's SOUTH SIDE you're going to assume certain things and look at me in a certain way that you wouldn't have if I told you I came from...say...Chicago's Roger's Park. Sara More to your point about Black people having been such great swimmers in the past. My father was from the deep South and used to tell me that almost all the Black boys growing up down south in the rural areas could swim. It wasn't until he came up North that he found so many Black folks who couldn't swim....lol. As you probably know, they've been systematically REMOVING swimming pools from many innercity schools (and removing the schools themselves in many cases) and no longer teaching Black children how to swim. Like they've been removing music, art, and other activities that contribute to a more well rounded education. All they're focusing on in many urban schools both public and charter are STATE TESTS....that's it. So while they're learning swimming, diving, lacrosse, fencing, and all sorts of other activities out in the suburban schools......the inner city schools don't even have swimming pools anymore. 　 Speaking of the success of our sistas at the olympics............. That Simone Biles is one fine little lady! Deceptively fine.....because I know she's probably as strong as a lion and could probably rip the average boy her age to pieces. A friend of mine gets at me telling me that I shouldn't talk like that about her because she's young enough to be my daughter. I tell her.....yeah....but she AIN'T. I'm trying to figure out what's up with her and her "crush" on Zac Ephron. All those muscular fit brothers running and doing gymnastics and she's jumping up and down over some cat named "Zac"??? Although it hasn't been talked about in the media, I'm almost sure that Biles' success as well as her looks and popularity is making Gabby feel some sort of "way". 　

When I was in my 20s I was convinced that there was NOTHING about the "old way" or older eras of America that should be brought back. I thought it was all slavery, lynching, and oppression. Older Black people used to tell me that things were better back in the 40s and 50s for Black people (atleast in Detroit) than in the 90s and I didn't believe them. I thought they were confused or something. But after having lived through atleast 2 generations and seeing the difference between society today and society 30 years ago, I can agree somewhat that overall a lot of things have deteriorated. Older Black people told me about all the businesses Black folks used to have and I wasn't around to see it in the 30s or 40s but I DO remember parts of the 70s and 80s where there were more Black businesses that were more successfully ran back then than there are today. I do believe we can walk a fine line between bringing back some of the good of the "good ole days" of America while leaving the worse behind. -More good paying blue collar jobs. -More intact Black communities where the poor and middle class lived next door. -Good music without the lyrics the promote violence and mayhem -Easier relationships between males and females and stronger families Just simpler times in general where people of average intelligence could navigate easily through society with no legal, financial, or social problems. I think society has gotten far too complicated. Troy How do we know that the Willie Lynch letter was a "lie"? We know slavery and the management of slaves weren't an isolated event, the slavers HAD to have conspired together to not only import slaves but maintain a system to keep them under control. I'm not saying that I know the letter is true, I have no proof one way or the other....but what proof is there that it was false?

Understanding the Controversy Over Caster Semenya http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/20/sports/caster-semenya-800-meters.html?_r=0 This is another stronger example of the original point I was making in reference to the behavior of Leslie Jones and how Western society has a long and documented history of not only trying to emasculate the image of Black men, but on the flip side masculate the image of Black women. Here you have a "female" who obviously looks like a male....a fully matured young male. I understand that some people are born hermaphrodites and of both sexes. It's relatively rare, but it happens. I'm also aware of the fact that no one is 100% male or 100% female, we all carry a balance of both natures at various points on the spectrum. However this is an artificially contrived "controversy" because it could easily be solved and put to rest....but it's not. They keep wondering whether or not Caster is a "real woman" or a man pretending. Yet they refuse to do the obvious tests of checking the genitals and other basic tests that will determine what sex Caster is. They've already found that Caster's testosterone levels are as high as a man's and was forced to take testosterone suppressing medication before competing in the Olympics. This is where critical thinking comes into play. The real purpose of this story isn't the interest it peaks in a public who is desparate to figure out what sex Caster is, but the REAL purpose of keeping this story going is to humiliate Black women and have the public subconsciously question their femininity.

Cynique Your perception isn't being manipulated so much as it's being SKEWED. I can't say you're perception is being manipulated because you are arriving at YOUR OWN conclusions about the conditions of Black people in society based on the places YOU have gone. However I can say that your perceptions are a little skewed because the places you've gone to are limited to that of the typical public. So ofcourse you're going to find the majority of Black people in those environments "normal" and pretty well adjusted. Or atleast behaving normal enough to function within them, lol. But did you go down to the Cook County Jail? Did you go to the various hospitals in the Chicago area? The AIDS wards? The psychiatric units? Did you visit the juvenile dentention centers? This will give you a more comprehensive view of the OVER ALL condition of Black people in your community rather than the sanitized "rated PG" public view most see on a daily basis.

Troy I don't think they're trying to mislead people, I think they're TRYING to inform people. But the question I have is, exactly WHO is their audience that they're trying to reach? Given that I'm not the smartest person in the world and my ability to comprehend that article is limited....from MY perspective too much of the article is redundant and seems use graphs and statistics and multiple paragraphs to explain the same basic points over and over again. Certainly this article wasn't written for the average person to understand because it's far too complex and scientifically detailed. Which explains why it was found in a scientific publication. However the question then becomes...... Does an audience smart enough to understand this article and has a mind analytical enough to follow it all the way through really NEED to be told over and over again in great detail...as this article does....that they should be careful and not believe everything they read or hear on social media????? Another problem I have with the article is it's suggeting that all conspiracy theories are "misinformation". It lumps conspiracy NEWS, conspiracy RUMORS, and conspiracy THEORIES all in the same category as if all three terms mean the same thing. So in a sense it does seem as if they are attempting to persuade people not so much with "facts" but how they're wording certain things.

Sara Well even if you WERE sucking up to me, I don't think "sucking up" or "kissing ass" is necessarily a bad thing....lol. I wouldn't mind "sucking up" to Cynique, you, or Troy....if I thought I could get something of value out of it like money or massive promoting or a good position in some firm. Part of thinking outside of the box is putting me ego and pride to the side when it comes to seeking to achieve certain objectives. I could have been in a cussing match with somebody last night and wouldn't think twice about coming to them the next morning apologizing and trying to make up with them if they hold the key to my success for a given goal. CD Ok, I see what you're saying now....... But again, I'm not accusing Black actresses who play loud obnoxious ghetto types of CREATING the perception.....I'm accusing them of PERPETUATING it. They didn't start the fire but they're keeping it going. Similar to how the people alive today didn't start America's economic system. It was started centuries ago, but people today are playing their respective roles in keeping it rolling along. That's how the perceptions of Black inferiority work. Black people who have accepted this belief and their roles in it keep it going. Ofcourse the mode or stereotype of the vulgar obnoxious Black woman who tended not to be as "gentle" or "refined" as the White woman has existed for decades....centuries probably. But actresses like Leslie come along and accept roles that keep this negative perception going; usually with an excuse of trying to "make a living" or "get their foot in the door". Black actors and actresses in Hollywood tend not to be as versatile as their White counterparts and are more likely to be TYPECASTED into certain roles that the public expects to see them in because of their phenotype. Vighn Rhames is a good example of what I'm talking about. You'll never see that brother play a professor or doctor because the "public" doesn't expect a Black man who looks like that to be intelligent enough to pass it off. As Cynique said, we (or I rather) have beat up on Leslie enough.....no need to stomp her out. But we shouldn't underestimate the power and influence a woman who has weekly role on a major network like NBC has over: 1. Young Black females who naturally absorb images they see of other Black females in the media and get their cues on how to behave from them. 2. White people who religiously watch SNL and who may already have ideas of Black dysfunctionality raging in their minds and now the skits being perform....while not having INITIATED those racist ideas....certainly fuels them.

Cynique "You seem incapable of doing anything other than suckin up to Pioneer, pathetically seeking him as an ally. LMAO" Lol....why don't you give her some competition! I personally don't have a problem with the concept of a Black "elite" as long as it's not based on superficial things like complexion and religious affiliation. I like the idea that like everyone else, we can also have nobility and a system of heirarchy that demands high achievement, high social standards, and other positive attributes. to aspire to. I just don't like how the traditional Black elite society have traditionally based their success on nearness to Whites in terms of behavior and even looks. But we should have our own standards, traditions of success, and systems that are unique to us. 　 CD I'm not sure I understand your point clearly enough, can you restate it differently or perhaps make it more simplitic? . Sara "They have NO power to effect changes in the lives of others, and only personal power to effect the course of their own.... unlike white "Elites." You're right. With the exception of actual BUSINESS OWNERS, most of the Black elite I've met have very little real power. They are well educated and have money, but outside of property few have real wealth or power/authority to change things either on their jobs or in society in general. They tend to have TITLES....but no authority behind the title. Most Black people of high positions don't even have the power to keep their own children out of trouble or provide jobs for them inside the company or government in which they operate. For example, a Black fire chief can't get his sons in the fire department or on the police department like most White chiefs or other White officials can and have traditionally done. Hell, he can barely keep HIS OWN job and he's nervous as hell that if he farts too loud he'll be forced to resign from it! Even most Black business owners who have power inside their own businesses have very little power in the actual INDUSTRY their businesses operate in. The Black man who owns his own barber shop or the Black woman who owns her own beauty salon STILL has to go to the Korean beauty supply store for their equipment !

Much respect to Harry, This rant isn't directed toward him but it's more of a statement in general...... I haven't read anywhere in the Bible that say what color Adam was, however I will say that Black people spend too much time focusing on the Bible and trying to make the characters Black...of color...or line up with themselves and their condition. Go to the average ghetto and ask the young people what color Jesus is and over 75% of them will probably say "Black". But guess what? They're STILL in the ghetto even with that knowledge. Whether Adam, Moses, or Jesus was Black, White, or Yellow doesn't seem to be helping our condition today in 2016. No matter what color Adam or Jesus WAS or IS....if you are being beaten by a police officer or robbed by a thug and you call on him....if he doesn't help you what difference did it make? White folks went from painting Jesus and the other characters of the Bible White with European features to for the most part not even believing in them AT ALL today.....yet they're still ruling much of the world. We need to focus on the the present and the future and what is practical to improve our condition.

We can walk and chew gum at the same time. Black people can criticize the unjust treatment received by White police officers WHILE condemning the violence that occurs within their own communities. Much like a nation can fight a war with another nation and at the same time fight crime within it's own borders. It's not necessarily a matter of focusing on one or the other, you can focus on both.

What I like to do when I'm reading ANYTHING on-line or anywhere else is ask myself, "Who benefits?" Who benefits from this information being put out? What type of desired effect does whoever putting this information out want to achieve? We should also talk about the difference between MISinformation and DISinformation. Misinformation is just incorrect information. But disinformation is specifically designed to mislead people by putting out lies specifically designed to influence people or an outcome but wrapped up mostly in facts. Kind of like a Trojan Horse.

LOL @ the end of that other thread. Man...I LOVE women. Cynique I concur with your observations as best I can given my age and experience. Like most cities with large Black populations, Detroit had a strong Black Elite. But as society started pushing for more integration and wealthy Blacks started moving out to mingle with White folks (who often had less wealth and even less class), these societies and organizations became less relevant. My family wasn't very highly educated, we were more working class and lived in a working class neighborhood, but my father had a lot of friends in the Black clergy. Going over their homes was like visiting royalty. Seeing how their wives would handle silverware (real silver) with white gloves. Seeing paintings and sculptures decorating the house and China cabinets and funny rugs...lol. Children talking about how their parents "laid out" their clothes for school and then laid out another set for playing or going to "communion" because they were Catholic or Lutheran where as most of the children I grew up with were Baptist or Methodist. Negroes weren't born Catholic but converted just to be "different" from the other Black folk. Boys who had never been in a fist fight....lol. These kids were Black but I had less in common with them than some of the White kids I knew growing up. A common belief is that the Black elite were all mixed or very light skinned, but I saw quite a few dark skinned people in upper class Black neighborhoods; but they almost always have light skinned wives. Another thing that I found interesting as I got older was that although most of these men had light skinned wives, most had dark skinned mistresses....lol. Or there first wife was dark skinned but they ended up divorcing them and their second wife was very light. CD It's not my belief that Leslie is creating a NEW generation of loud and foul mouthed women any more than gangsta rap is creating a NEW generation of criminals. Ofcourse these things already existed in the Black community as it has in EVERY community since time immemorial. But movies like Precious, Menace 2 Society, obnoxious Black comedians, and gangsta rap are used to tap into that negative elements that already exists and PROMOTE it in the Black community and PROLONG it's negative effects in order to cause social instability. When you see Black men constantly engaging in criminal and shiftless behavior or Black women being obnoxious and shameful, t not only kills the respect others have for you... It kills the respect and regard our people have for themselves. . What woman wants a man she has been led to believe is a criminal? What man wants a loud mouth woman with a foul attitude for a wife? We no longer want to work and live around eachother and seek to get away from eachother and find comfort around those we deem more appealing. And this is how many Black communities fall apart. Those with ambition and a desire to improve themselves.....leave. Think of the culture of a people like the culture of bacteria in a glass of milk. That glass of milk contains dozens of types of bacteria....some good....some bad. ALL the bacteria may be present, but depending on which type of bacteria is PROMOTED....it can make the difference between that glass of milk being fresh and drinkable, spoiled, turn into cheese, or turn into yogurt. It's the same with any community. All communities have all types of people in them, but depending on which element you decide to promote you can turn that community into a stable environment where people handle their problems indoors....or a violent ghetto where everybody is out in the street cussing and fighting while a few of the good people are hiding inside waiting on the first opportunity to move out. The media seems to like promoting the negative "bacteria" in our community to create social instability and economic stagnation.

Sara So, Separatism, Black Nationalism, Afrocentricism. What are you advocating? Thank you, I appreciate that you can disagree with me but still respect my position and view me in a positive light over all. That is a very complex question because I'm seeing the first hand results of all 3 positions (actually more) being played out in the streets of Detroit in a way I hadn't seen in the past. I'm seeing things today being played out that I only read about sitting up as a teenager in the Shrine of Black Madonna book store. I read about the various Black political philosophies of the 60s and 70s but now I'm actually seeing them and the various results they're having on the thinking of the people in different communities and it's giving me a better idea of what works, what doesn't work, and what's actually self destructive. So what am I advocating? Lol.....right now I'm advocating that you start another thread with this topic so we can delve into more deeply because I don't want to further jack Troy's thread with my responses to it. Cynique I'm glad you noticed how erratic and "wild" Leslie behaves. Like Sara said....she's not funny at all to me. Most of her behavior is stereotypical and much of it is offensive and embarassing. 　 　 CD You don't come around this neighborhood (Cynique's Corner) much, I'm glad to keep you on the porch for a while....lol. Sure African women are loud and jovial. I found out not to long ago that most ASIANS tend to be loud and a fiesty in their own cultures when they feel White people aren't looking. And we know most Hispanics are as loud if not louder than Blacks Infact, MOST cultures period are loud and flamboyant when compare to the rather reserved and restrained northern European culture that dominates the United States. It's not the loudness and flamboyancy that's the issue, it's the negativity and inappropriate behavior attached to it that I have a problem with like the cussing and violent talk which you intuitively knew and referred to yourself. Look...... I support the right for women and men to behave as they wish as long as they don't hurt anyone else, even if that behavior is abnormal and doesn't fit with their sexual nature. Which is why I don't bash homosexuality or cross dressing anymore......it's their right as human beings to do that as far as I'm concerned. However, if you ask me is it the BEST behavior or is it behavior that should be PROMOTED and I'd have to say NO. I'd rather promote heterosexual behavior where the gender roles are in line with the sex. And it's the same with Leslie. I don't mind her being loud and outspoken and I don't mind her cussing a little like Monique. But guess what? Monique is still a lady...a woman. Her femininity has NEVER been questioned and she's probably never been called a gorilla or ape. She LOOKS like a woman and acts like one, and even those she may be a big girl...fat even....she's still made like a woman and her femininity isn't in question. With Leslie....she's made big and bulky like a man and she behaves on the hard masculine side and this is the difference between the two. I've been all over the United States, Canada, and parts of Europe and had an opportunity to see hundreds if not thousands of African women, and I've never seen ONE who LOOK AND ACT like Leslie Jones. They may be her complexion, and may have SOME of her facial features....but most aren't made in the shape she's made NOR will you find them behaving like she does. Just look at how she sat in the interview with her legs all open and on the edge of the chair like a dude....how many women do you know outside of the ghetto that sit like that???? 　 Isn't it time to stop worrying about what everybody else thinks and celebrate and focus on us? When Black people are able to provide full employment for themselves and don't have to rely on Whites and others for the majority of their income....THEN we can celebrate and stop worrying about what other people think of us. Until then, when Black actors like Leslie come on playing a crappy racist manager or Black people play theives and violent buffoons characters I have to worry about those images having an impact on the White managers and employers who refuse to hire Black people with those images as an excuse. When Black people provide security and law enforcement in their own communities and no long rely on a majority White police force to keep order and safety for our children....THEN we can celebrate and stop worrying about what other people think of us. Until then, when Black rappers brag about selling dope and killing people or play dope dealer roles exclusively I have to worry about how many White racist police officers are using that as an excuse to lable Black males as "animals" and dregs on society who they want to exterminate. When there are enough Black doctors, nurses, and hospitals to provide care for our people.....THEN we can celebrate and stop worrying about what others think of us. Until then, I have to worry and hope that the White, Asian, and Indian doctors and nurse who are working on Black patients have an open mind and don't believe that Black people are subhuman and not really important enough to keep healthy or alive based on the crap they see in the media or what they've been told growing up. In other words, when we live in our own society and are fully supporting ourselves and don't have to rely on anyone else....THEN we can stop worrying about what others think of us. Until then, we have to deal with this....... Those police officers said that Black people were prone to violence and USED that excuse as a justification for slinging our sister around like a rag doll. The characters that Leslie Jones plays FEEDS INTO those racist beliefs of the aggressive Black woman. I'm sure there are no stats on it, but I have to wonder how many Black women.....older Black women...have been hurt or killed by police officers who may have seen those "Ma'dea" Tyler Perry movies where he puts on a wig and dress and plays a crazy wild and hyper aggressive old Black woman who loves violence? Thanx to Tyler Perry, an entire generation has been influenced to lose respect and sensitivity to older Black women. They look at old White women and they see a sweet little old grandma who needs a hug. They look at old Black women and they see some feisty old cussing beast who needs to be man-handled because that's the only thing she understands. I'm not trying to take away Leslie's right to make a living or express herself, I'm just saying she and other Black comedians should be more aware of the impact their characters have on the greater community.....especially in this volatile political and social climate. Leslie Jones isn't the first Black woman to make SNL's cast BTW....there have been others. Actually, there's another sister on there right now who isn't getting much attention.

It appears that our dear father, healer, and teacher the honorable Dr. Sebi has made his transition. I hope that God's peace and blessings be upon this great man for the good that he has done and the knowledge that he has brought to our community. Dr Sebi