Pioneer1

Troy I've mentioned this before, but literature even when it's in the form of novels is a little too sophisticated for most AfroAmericans today. They have been "dumbed down" for the past 50 years and this is one of the reasons I believe your site doesn't have the traffic you expect. Most of our people like "gossip" sites where there's a lot of drama and fighting and conflict going on where they can let their emotions run free rather than use their intellect which most literature requires one to do. And ofcourse, when they don't come on and frequent it much.....they don't see a reason to support it finanically or otherwise. That's why I think you should organize OFF LINE with some other of your colleagues at your university as well as those you know personally and organize some Black intellectual groups or academic groups to maintain a culture of Black intellectualism. You can't really force it on the Black public in general, but if you create an environment where it is free to manifest and refine itself then it will attract the right type of people not only to your internet interests but to your social and financial interests in the real world. If I were highly educated one of the first things I'd do was form of group of AfroAmerican scholars and maintain close contact with eachother for the rest of our lives so that we'd always have a support base for future endeavors. 　 　 Cynique 　 jes happy dat dey they allowed some of us negroes to eke out a livin in dis glory land You do that quite well. I bet you learned to talk like that while auditioning for your role as victim of a bullshit nation that keeps her citicizens oppressed and enslaved.....but teaches them how to read and lets them go to school and work in the government.....lol. They say familiarity breeds contempt. Perhaps you don't like America because you haven't been to many other places to compare it to. I think you need to take a trip to central America and see how most of the Black people live THERE and maybe you'll have more appreciation for what few opportunities Black folks atleast have in the United States. Del How can there be unity, without respect.Your statements show that you want to replace one type of domination with another. A few points.......... 1. I have respect for Cynique not just because of her age but because of her sharp mind and wit, but my idea of respect and how it's displayed may be different than yours and how you do it. My morality and ethics don't always line up with that of general society, they are guided by my logic and experiences rather than public sentiment. For example, I don't think sexual or bodily function comments to females are disrespectful UNLESS they are done to female members of your own family. And vice versa.... I don't think a female joking with a male about sexuality or bodily functions are disrespectful UNLESS she's saying it to a male member of her own family. 2. I believe in unity, but CONDITIONAL unity. Meaning, I have no desire to unite with ALL AfroAmericans.....I want to unite with those of LIKE MIND who think similar to me and share similar goals. In that respect......I don't know if I want to unite with Cynique (or you for that matter) because I'm not sure what her (and your) goals are or what you all desire for AfroAmericans as a group. Ofcourse I'd like to "get along" with you and all of my people, but when it comes to working together or uniting....I have to know where you stand on certain issues before link myself with you. 3. I'm not sure what those two types of "domination" are you're speaking of that I want to replace one with another. You might have to clarify that one.

Troy The so called Eskimo, I heard somewhere has 20 different words for "snow," implying a more profound understanding in the differences in that form of precipitation. I know some snow is better at making snow balls that other types of snow. I call the former type of snow "packing snow." I just call the other type of snow..."snow." Black folks use the the word snow in a completely different context to mean a white person, but there is no real distinction in the meaning of the two words "snow" and "white," it is just slang or a funky way of speaking. 　 Your comparison is a bit faulty. You're comparing people who are using THEIR WORDS in THEIR LANGUAGE to convey their thoughts......with people who are using OTHER PEOPLE'S WORDS from OTHER PEOPLE'S LANGUAGE to convey their thoughts. The Inuit or Eskimos are people of color, and in most languages invented by people of color the meaning isn't just in the word but in the TONE of how the word is said. This is the case whether they are African, Asian, or Native American (Eskimos under this category). Most languages from Asia and Africa are TONAL, meaning they can use the same word but the tone you use it in will give it a totally different meaning. On the other hand, in most European languages like English and French each word supposedly has only one meaning and they're supposed to invent more words for newer concepts....but they've stopped so. Which is one of the reasons even WHITE PEOPLE have adopted the Black habit of using slang and giving the same words different meaning....because even they have ran out of ideas for new words, lol.. Blacks, Asians, and Native Americans (most Latinos) are an emotional people and we focus more on TONE than on words and this becomes a problem when we're forced to speak in European languages that limits the amount of words spoken. 　 　 @Pioneer1 since you brought it up why don't you explain what the words "Solid" and "Jive" mean, and how those concepts can not be expressed with English language. As I've said I'm not suggesting that meaning can't be lost in translation. I'm disputing is that much of what you are suggesting about Black slang is not the same thing (in the vast majority of cases). Perhaps you'll demonstrate and exception with your definition of "solid." Both "solid" and "jive" had several meanings because....again...there weren't ENOUGH words in the English language to properly convey the different type of thoughts and feelings we used those words to convey. I was born in the early 70s and remember a little bit of it but I'm sure you remember more of it than me and probably a bit of the 60s where the word "solid" was in heavy use. Speaking of "heavy"....that was another term we used....lol. However from what I remember of "solid" it meant: 1. A plan of action strongly agreed upon. 2. A subject of conversation strongly agreed upon 3. I remember brothers greeting eachother with a hand claspe and saying "solid" as a form of comradery. 4. I also remember brothers using the term to describe something well put together like a "solid" deal or a "solid" job. Now "jive" is interesting because although I'm no etymologist I believe it has it's origins in the English word "jibberish". White people had a habit of calling languages they didn't understand "jibberish" and Black people must have picked up on this and started calling the way they spoke to eachother "jive". Jiibberish-jibe-jive...... The meanings of Jive: 1. I've heard it used to mean someone was joking. 2. It meant that someone was bullshitting when they had a job to do like shucking and jiving. 3. I remember it being an all around term for something or someone not to be taken seriously or respected, especially when they added the suffix "ass" on the end of it...lol. Jive-ass this and jive-ass that....lol...e.i.. " that jive-ass lawyer".

Cynique Glad you finally realized that you're not qualified to set yourself up as a role model for me. I think you're mistaken. Not trying to sound sexist but.... Lol, why would I even ATTEMPT to be a role model for someone who can only urinate (properly) sitting down? Just pointing out the fact that as much as you probably hate to admit it, you don't disagree with me as much as you THINK you do. You're constantly repeating my assertions in your arguments WITH me....lol. Troy I've read the statistics about our collective buying power, but unless people are willing to spend with us, that buying power means nothing Racism indeed exists in the business community and I found this out doing sales. People do HATE on Black businesses...... Meaning they'll go out of their way NOT to do business with you even if you have a better product for a cheaper price just because they don't want to see you successful. But I don't think that's the majority. Most people...well over 75%....want to get quality product/service first and if they can get it paying less then that's what they'll go for. I've seen this desire OVER RIDE their racist inclinations. Having said that....... What are the REAL reasons most people who don't do business with Black people refuse to do so? Is it simply because we're Black? If that's the case...well...why do so many BLACK PEOPLE refuse to do business with other Black people? Self hate? OR...... Have the EXPERIENCES of most people Black and non-Black who have patronized Black businesses been somewhat negative and have colored their perceptions of Black businesses? Experiences like going into an establishment that is being ran by dysfunctional family members instead of qualified employees. Experiences like......the store not even being open half the time when it should be. Experiences like not being able to purchase the products that you love half the time because even when the business is open they're "out" of this and "out" of that. When was the last time you went to a Chinese resturant or an Arab owned liquor store and they were "out" of something? You bring up the old cliche about the White man's ice being colder. But I've found out after going into a few Black owned establishments that their ice often tends NOT to be as cold as the typical White establishment! Why? Because their fridges tend to be older, less effective, half the lights are off and it's making a loud sound and not keeping the merchandise as cold as it should. Why is the White man's sugar sweeter? Perhaps because it's fresher and not so old that it's hardened into a brick. People are creatures of habit because they learn from their experiences. I don't think most Black people or even most non-Black people SET OUT to avoid or destroy Black businesses, but if the service or product that Black business offers is inferior or non existent then most people are going to naturally patronize that which is superior and convenient for them. Yes White people have more money, but there are some things money can't buy. Laziness and indifference are problems Black people are going to have to solve on their own in order to properly run businesses that will be decent enough for people to patronize. Much of the same scenarios can be applied to Black businesses online such as websites. I have to give it to you Troy...this is a wonderful and properly ran website which is one of the reasons why I've frequented it so long. But many Black ran sites I've been on they only have one or two Black people posting, and the rest are racist trolls who have more to say than Black posters....lol. Many Black businesses have given up owning their own websites period and just throw everything on facebook. Another form of laziness and indifference. Why have so many Black BOOK STORES went out of business across America? Some of it is the fault of Black people who would rather gossip on social media than walk their ass into a store, grab a book, and read. Much of it is because of lack of thoughtful ways by Black bookstores to keep the public interested enough to walk through their doors. It's not America's fault nor is it totally the fault of American racism....it's Black laziness and ineptitude.

Cynique Of course, anybody born in America is technically a citizen of this country and, as such, you are entitled to believe what you want about where this places you in the scheme of things. But you are not qualified to tell me that i should emulate you and love and revere this country where equal justice under the law is a myth and where the system is stacked against the poor and underprivileged, and this mean black folks;it also means the black president who white Republicans blocked at every turn and who was the main reason angry white bigots elected your boy, Trump. We don't agree on this subject and i suggest you leave it at that Since you just reluctantly made MY POINT....well I guess I CAN leave it at that....lol. Troy @Pioneer1, are you joking?! What percentage of the population do Black folks make up of America? Compare that to the percentage of property or business ownership. ((Pioneer rests his elbows on the table, claspes his hands, and looks thoughtfully into the distance)) Troy, you know what I think we SHOULD do? I think perhaps we should stop worrying so much about how much wealth other people have and start focusing more on how much wealth WE can attain for ourselves! Yes Black people own a disproportionately small amount of land and wealth in this nation for their population, but who's fault is it? Chinese who live OUTSIDE of America probably own more property around this nation than the Black folks who live here. Pointing to a bunch of old White men in suits and how much wealth and power they have or what percentage they hold is good reference material, but practically speaking it's pretty much futile. What's stopping wealthy Blacks from pooling their money and connections together and building a shopping mall? Credit union? Manufacturing plant? However little we got, we DO have the means to compound and increase what little we DO have with some concentrated effort and motivation.

Cynique The reason black people didn't know their history was because they didn't read what was written about it. The knowledge was there, it just had to be pursued. During the Harlem Renaissance, back in the '20s, the black literati knew about African civilizations, especially about the Moors. Most Black people in the 20s thought the Black race was Black due to a curse on Ham and they saw Africa as a jungle of savages that they had to distance themselves from. Besides, most Black people were functionally illiterate back in the 20s. How could they have read what was there when most couldn't even read PERIOD? Expecting them to sit down in a book store and educate themselves on Black history or go down to the local community college and enroll themselves in a Black studies course would be absured. It took honorable men like Marcus Garvey and Elijah Muhammad to come along, instill pride in them, and teach them better. 　 　 　 Troy plenty of English words to convey the meaning of fronting, including the word "fronting," Mispronunciation of words is another matter. Well what English word would you use to convey the full meaning of Black American 70s terms like "jive" or "solid"? It would take you an entire paragraph to explain the full meaning of the word "jive" alone and how it's used in each context. Infact, the complaint I constantly hear from many Latinos is that there are words in Spanish that can't even be properly translated in English because there is no equivalent in English thought. I've heard the same thing from Africans. The English language is not old enough nor sophisticated enough to handle the emotional and intellectual complexities of Black people which is why we have to constantly invent slang and add our own definition to words that already exist. The "n word" is a good example of this. The original word with the "er" at the end has a totally different meaning used by most young people today pronounced with an "a" at the end. Same word.....but a different pronouciation changes the meaning. The same can be said for the words "brother" or "sister".

Like the old saying goes, all it takes for evil to thrive in the world is for good men to stand by and do nothing. The violence in Chicago and other urban areas will end when GOOD Black men stand up, organize, march into the ghetto and END it. Thousands of Black babies are being born every day in the ghettos of America to replace those who are killed or hooked on dope....... Which basically means this madness could easily go on for another 100 years if nothing is actively done BY US to stop it. Many have been calling for a civil war in the Black community between Black folks and "n**gas" . I read the history of China and how they had a civil war among themselves to rid themselves of the negative element that was plaguing them for much of the 18th, 19th, and early 20th centuries. And like Black America, China had a problem with drugs, crime, stupidity, and immorality until a bunch of Chinese men led by Mao stood up and decided to rid themselves of the cancer that was spreading and now China is one of the strongest most organized and most feared nations on this planet.

They didn't come right out and say the cop who shot her was Black at first, but I figured it was a Black police officer by the way the media was covering the story from the jump. First of all they kept pointing on all the things the cops did wrong like not having their body cameras on. Usually they start off blaming the victim and giving the police account of what happened, but THIS time they were strangely "objective". Being objective and stating only facts? That's SO unlike the American media....lol. Then they started showing more and more pictures of the victim smiling and hugged up with loved ones. No mug shots or crazy photos of her throwing up gang signs.....all nice empathetic pictures to draw the sympathy of the public. I also thought it was a little strange that in most police shootings the media reported the police officer's narrative about what happened but this time the media for some strange reason didn't have the cop's side of the story; or if they did have it they weren't putting it out. Once they made the public fall in love with the victim and painted the cop as some mysterious dark figure.....WHAMM.....they release the fact that he's Black. I think the MEDIA is more responsible for making this a racial story than the police officer or the victim because they clearly held back information in order to build up the story. They did the same thing with the 4 missing men in Pennsylvania. They knew these young men were dead and buried even when they were reporting them as "missing". A lot of people go missing but they don't make it national news so I knew they had more information than they were releasing.

After years of just seeing it in book stores, I finally got a chance to read Assata's book last year and was captivated by her story. What got me was how attractive she was (and still is). All through out the book I was fantasizing about what it would be like to struggle with a sister so intelligent and beautiful like Assata by your side. Not only is the GOP in trouble, all of the politicians are in trouble because the SYSTEM is collapsing. Western civilization is collapsing. I believe Trump was put in office to HURRY UP this collapse. If Hillary had got in office she would have done the same thing Obama did...."patch up" things and keep the system chugging and puffing along a little longer. What we as Black people in the United States should be doing is building self sustaining communities that will get us through the turmoil and simultaneously working out plans to build a brand NEW civilization to take the place of this one after it's inevitable collapse.

I used to say the same thing about White people. When I was a teenager me and my friends would go to the mall or from store to store filling out job applications and the thing I noticed was that nearly all the White men were working but I hadn't seen any of them filling out a job application. I'd see Black people, Latinos, even White women filling out applications. But when it came to White men....they were usually the ones TAKING them but not filling them out. It's that "good ole boy" networkd of being recommended for positions by friends in high places.

Cynique Didn't Troy say this site is liable to be banned from Google if you keep saying the n-word? Stop cussing and pay attention before you get the site shut down.....lol. Your gratitude is misdirected. Troy's action was a calm decision motivated by propriety, not rage. Regardless as to his state of mind when he made the decision, Sara's words STILL caused a reaction....they moved him into taking action. So again, that would be a good example...one of many....of how words can force people into action. Troy Words don't have meaning, only people do. Martin Luther King has passed away. Did his words and speeches pass with him? Those who authored the U.S. Constitution have died. Has the document (words) they authored centuries ago died too? You've dedicated your life to promoting the culture of Black literature. Black poets and authors use WORDS as a means to express their talents, creativity, and deepest inner most thoughts. But if...in the end...words are meaningless. Are you really saying that you're promoting people of no real substance?

Cynique and Troy To say America doesn't belong to us is a fallacy. Parts of America actually DO belong to us. Black people own property in America. Black people own businesses in America. Black people own radio and television programs and are featured on them. We have media outlets at our disposal. Black people hold positions of authority in America from Mayors, Congressional members, Police Chiefs, Judges, Prosecutors on every level.... So we actually HAVE property, wealth and authority....not as much as Whites....but we DO have it. I keep saying it over and over again, one of the problems with Black people is that we usually don't exercise what little authority we DO have. When you get used to playing the role of victim and slave letting other people just do whatever they want to you without exercising the power you do have....you're gonna get that little bit taken away from you soon. Black people actually had more wealth and power in America back in the 70s and early 80s than we do today! We had more Black businesses in the 70s than we do today. They lost most of it because they got lazy and satisfied and refused to use it to their collective benefit. For example, Troy you said Black people have a right to justice but don't often get it......... Look at D.C. and parts of Maryland. Look at how many Blacks are in positions of authority in law enforcement from police officers to prosecutors to judges to corrections officers. Who's MAKING them hold to and enforce the unjust laws that keep so many Black people locked up and locked out of society in the D.C. and Baltimore area? Black people are in authority in that region. If they wanted to, they could....with a lot of wrangling....tear down the old laws and build new ones more beneficial to themselves and their community. But they refuse to do so. Instead they maintain the same judicial and law enforcement structure the White officials before them started even though it clearly works against them and their people. They'll complain about "the system" being unjust and not working all day long but at the end of the day they uphold that same system. Cynique talks about immigrants coming to this nation and being treated better than Blacks. Again, this is what I mean by the "slave mentality" and thinking like a victim. There was little we could do about it prior to the 60s, but in 2017 why are Black people ALLOWING immigrants from all over the world to flood into the United States and jump over them economically? Why are Blacks in Los Angeles letting Latinos drive them out of the neighborhood? Why are Blacks in Atlanta letting other immigrants push them out and take jobs? Other groups would riot and have all types of fits and shut down the airports if the same thing were being done to THEM....but Black folks just stand around WATCHING other people take action without taking any of their own. If you're too afraid to stand at the airport and block the planes full of immigrants from landing, then don't complain about them taking your jobs and jumping over you economically. "America" isn't the reason why so many of these immigrant groups are doing better than Blacks, it's the fact that rather than seeing them as competition and forcing them go to back home.....Black people PATRONIZE their businesses and support their wealth. Again, we can't blame America or racism for some things.....the silly victim mentality of the negro is largely to blame for most of his problems. The problem isn't that we're non-Americans TRYING to be Americans. The real problem is that we're Americans who DON'T ACT like Americans.

I may be wrong but I don't believe Elijah Muhammad taught that Africa was the cradle of civilization. I believe he taught that Black people who were already on this planet in Asia WENT DOWN into Africa thousands of years ago and began a new form of civilization and that's where modern Africans came from. Many in the Nation of Islam believe that true Black civilization actually DEVOLVED or DEGENERATED when a segment of it went down into Africa. Most people only get Black history that starts with Blacks being slaves in the United States (let alone other nations in the Americas). More advanced students begin to learn of our history when we were in Africa. But very few learn about what we had BEFORE we were in Africa. If you are going to create black science you will also need to o create a language. Since language limits thinking. You're right in that certain languages like ENGLISH limits one's thinking. One of the reason Black people invented "Ebonics" and speak so much slang and continue to invent new definitions of old words in the English language is because this language is so limited and our intellect and emotions are so complex that there are few if any words in the English language that can actually capture the full meaning of how we feel or what thoughts were're trying to convey. For example, the word "front" already had a meaning in English. But since we didn't know of a word in English to describe someone who pretends to be something they're not or pretends to feel a certain way they don't we had to invent one called "frontin".....lol. "Man stop frontin'......" , lol. Who else but Black Americans would know what we mean by "Bebe's Kids"....lol. I haven't really studies African languages so I don't know how thorough they are at capturing African thought and concept, and really I don't know if learning an African language would be appropriate today anyway since we have been exposed to so much more in this modern world than the limited world that traditional African languages were developed in. But I believe a new language could be invented that adequately captures the complexities of African intellect and emotion.

Well, I'll probably just have to see (listen) for myself. This younger generation's ideas of "pro-Black" and being nationalist is markedly different than those of previous generations. In past generations, one incident of mistreatment of a Black person by the police would spark riots in which entire neighborhoods burn for 4 and 5 days and blocks and blocks of businesses were destroyed. Today, Black men and women are shot down every week and these kids think they're doing something if they refuse to stand during the National Anthem. 30 or 40 of them tweet eachother and decide to block a major freeway and they think that's "revolutionary". They call TUPAC a Black nationalist and revolutionary and most of he rapped about was smoking dope, getting drunk, and being violent towards other Black people. So I have to take a lot of what they say with a grain of salt. But this isn't he first time Jay Z has pumped what some may consider pro-Black lyrics. I remember years ago in a song called "What More Can I Say" he said: "Now you know yo ass is willie when they got you in a mag For half a billi and our ass ain't lily White That shit you write must be illy" And don't forget he is also a 5 Percenter which is a splinter group from the Nation of Islam. At the core of their teachings is a pro-Blackness and the belief that Black men are gods. They used to even great eachother, "what up god" 　 I have to admit though, even the very title 4:44 is a bit of a turn off.....lol. It would be different if it were 11:59 or even 11:55, atleast it would make you think something big was impending. But 4:44? Whatever is coming seems to be a mightly long ways away.....lol.

Cynique Thanks for providing a good example of how a word (or two words) were strong enough to move someone into action they never thought they'd take. Just like Troy felt Sara crossed a line and moved him to take action....instead of ignoring it as "just mere words"......both you and Troy SHOULD understand from this example how my friend's word could have move me to the point of action that almost got him seriously injured....lol. The law recognizes such things as FIGHTING WORDS for a reason. Troy Pioneer do you think Bill Maher should have lost his program over his use of the word? He is white and he used the n-word on television no less. No, for 2 reasons: 1. He called HIMSELF that....not anyone else and especially not a Black person. 2. Given his record of opposing right-wing bigotry and attacking racists (atleast in the media) as far as I'm concerned he gets a pass from me. But I can't speak for other Black people. The late George Carlin would have gotten one from me too....lol.

I learned a while back that in Western society the term "middle class" isn't just in reference to income or economic status but also includes educational attainment and profession. Plumbers and electricians may be pulling in $75,000 a year but they aren't considered "middle class" but working class. On the other hand, a school teacher with a Master's degree barely making $30,000 a year IS considered part of the middle class because of her degree and profession. It didn't make a lot of sense to me at first, I thought it should be strictly tied with income or wealth. But the older I get and observe things the more I understand that "class" is not just economic but social (socio-economic). As I said before, I'm working class or what some may consider poor. However I don't feel too bad about my income status because I didn't go to college. But if I went to school and earned a Masters degree, or even a Bachelors....and didn't pull in atleast $75,000 within 10 years.....I would have been mad enough to kill somebody! To me, that type of study and sacrifice should come with some sort of guarantee of wealth. I couldn't see myself doing what some of these kids are doing getting all of this education just to work at Starbucks or Panera Bread for just above minimum wage. I'd start a revolution or something.....lol. As far as the wealth we get from our businesses and doing what we love. I found out Troy that a lot of White people are actually getting most of their wealth from the federal government. Many of them are using non-profit status for grants, others are getting money funneled to them from friends inside the government who fund their businesses and business projects, including those online. For example, They'll start a website claiming to promote "history" books and authors who specialize in history and the Department of Education somehow funnels money down the line to them and they end up being subsidized hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to to waste while you're struggling with ads, donations, and grants just to stay afloat. This is yet another reason we should embrace our American citizenship. When we recognize this is OUR nation and have just as much of a right to the billions and trillions of dollars this nation has as those who've been receiving and wasting it for decades, then we'll start sending Black politicians to Washington with the purpose of siphoning some of that money BACK down to us and our businesses. Imagine AALBC federally contracted to be offered in every public highschool or community college in this nation and getting millions from it.

Kind of shakes your faith in the arrogance of the scientific community which tends to regard itself as infallible. It didn't shake MY faith in the "scientific community" because I didn't have too much faith in them to begin with. I told you all that I didn't trust Western science or academics and that we as Black people need to develop OUR OWN institutions in order to uncover the truth and REAL science and medicine....and you call it ridiculous.....foolish. Now some White dude comes on talking about pyramids and ancient cities and you think the veil has finally been lifted...lol. Elijah Muhammad was teaching this stuff 80 years ago! He said that Black people were the original people of this planet and had been ruling it and building great cities and civilizations.....much greater than what we have today....for millions of years BEFORE White people even existed. First they tried to deny it and limited everything in history to fit within the 6000 years of the Biblical reference. Now that they're discovering ancient ruins hundred of thousands of years old and bones millions of years old, now they want to claim SPACE ALIENS must have built these monuments....lol. We better build colleges and universities of our own and teach our own children REAL history instead of going by his-story of what happened.

This sister breaks it down as to why she considers herself an American and embrace America as her country, and as a Black man I feel similarly. She makes an excellent point about racist Trump supporters wanting to take back "their" country. Hell, Trump's parents or grandparents are from SCOTLAND....most Black people have ancestors who've gone back 10 or 15 generations on this land! Also, listen to the West Indian who calls in around 15 minutes later who also articulates as to why Black Americans should embrace their country. Black people helped build this country, it's silly to let OTHER people (many of them children of immigrants or immigrants themselves) embrace the nation and it's wealth and make themselves at home on land that OUR ancestors fought for.

Troy I've read that book before. Or should I say....I've read "through" it. I'm already hip to the atrocities this nation has committed at home to the Blacks, Native Americans and even other Whites.....as well as abroad to people in other nations. Remember, I'm the one who spent months trying to convince you and CD that the water supplies of America's inner cities were being poisioned with lead and other toxins causing violence and other social problems. But I know how to separate the good of America from the bad. I even separate the good of the American government from it's bad side. I still maintain that this nation has been better for Black people's social and economic progress during the past 200 years than almost any other nation in the world during the same time period. Besides...... Shouldn't our roles be reversed? This society has been better to YOU than it's been to me so far anyway.....lol. You're well educated, have a professional career, a family, and seem to be solidly in the upper middle class. America's been good to YOU. I'm still poor and don't own my own home....lol. If ANYBODY on this site should be clowning on America and talking about her inequalities and injustices it should be ME. And I actually do from time to time....but I still recognize that if I DO find huge success, this the land I'm most likely to find it in. And before you clap back with the fact that you achieved everything you have not BECAUSE of America but DESPITE America's inequalities and injustices and through smarts and hard work...... Let me remind you that there are plenty of smart hard working people all over the world who don't have a fraction of what you or even I have because they don't have the resources nor opportunities to acquire them in their countries. Hard work and smarts mean little in an environment where you aren't free or safe to express them.

Cynique What happened between you and Sara was an example of two women who never met eachother in real life and ONLY knew eachother from their limited exchanges on a website, allowing their egos and tempers to get so far out of control that both began going at eachother's throats in an online pissing contest. THAT'S what happened.....lol. And again, Whether it was "real" or not. Whether it was "justified" or not. Regardless as to who started it or who was at fault. .....the fact is YOU allowed another person's WORDS to rile you up to the point of blind rage. Yet you want to sit up there smiling with your hands clasped on your knee asking me why in the world would I allow another person's words get me so worked up to the point of anger. Again, don't sit there pretending to be so holy and angelic. As far as other terms not having the same effect.............. In Black culture we don't just look at the words or terms but the INTENT behind the terms. We focus on the feelings and emotions behind the words spoken. Me and other Black men call eacother "muthafucka" all day long, we don't take it in it's literal meaning. My own father called me a "muthafucka" one time.....lol. I wasn't bad enough to call HIM one back though.....lol. We know when we use it on eachother it's usually intended to be used as an "intensifier" to add strength and emotion to the conversation, not implying they you had sex with your own mother. And it's the same with "nigga". We understand the intent behind it when WE use it. When a White person uses it we know the intent behind it too, and it's not a term of endearment but usually a term of hate and violence. I never did like the term "son of a bitch" though. It was more of a White person's thing to say. Now go some where and salute the flag of the country you are so beholden to, but to whom you are just a nigger who wants white folks not to devastate you by calling you one. You keep displaying your lack of patriotism and I'm gonna call the White folks at the Social Security office and have them "devastate" YOU.....lol.

Troy I simply disagree. You are saying that if there were no Tupac, all the negativity in the Black community we have associated to Gangster rap would not have existed. Tupac was a solid rap artist, but there are a great many solid rap artists. Come on man, you can you sit up there and accuse me of saying something I EXPLICITLY went out of my way to NOT say? I said from the jump: "No he wasn't the CAUSE of the ills the Black community suffers from today, but he CONTRIBUTED to much of it. Just like NWA, Ice T, Biggie, and the other gangter rappers of yesterday and today. " Now you got me putting ALL of the problems gangster rap has caused on Pac. Again, he isn't the cause of "all" of it or even "most" of it. But given his status and influence, he certainly is a major cause of much of it. Who can deny his role in making "thugging" and "thugged out" and "thug life" aspirations among so many of our youth today? 　 Now if you say that if gangster rap did not exist at all there would be less dysfunction for the generation of Black youth were reared on this stuff. I'd be willing to say perhaps. Well that's SOME of what I'm saying. We were talking about Tupac and his role specifically, but generally speaking, yes, I believe this to be the case. Now mind you, there was still a lot of negativity in the Black community BEFORE gangster rap. WEB Dubois was talking about the criminality and lawlessness of Blacks in Philadelphia back in the turn of the century. Infact, I'm reading a book right now about the plague of Black crime back in the 50s and 60s and how the Black communities around the nation were struggling with it even back then. It's called "Locking Up Our Own" https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/11/books/review-locking-up-our-own-james-forman-jr.html I'm halfway through it.....very insightful. The negative element has existed since we were first brought to the United States. You had murderers, pimps, thieves, gangsters, numbers runners, ect.....for decades. But what Gangsta Rap did was take the negative element and GLORIFY it and make it cool and mass marketed it among our youth in such a way to influence them to emulate the violence and criminality that was formerly common only to a certain segment of the population. But then you'd also have to explain why white boys who buy most of the gangster rap were not, apparently, similarly effected and why many Black men are not. Well for one, most White kids may have liked the music but they couldn't RELATE to it. In other words, they loved the beat and the rhythm but it's hard Secondly, most White kids in the suburbs don't experience the OTHER pressures and influences that accompany Black youth of the inner city that would make for a full recipe of chaos and dysfunction. White kids may listen to gangster rap.....but still have a father at home. White kids may listen to gangster rap.....but live in a safe middle class community. White kids may listen to gangster rap.....but have access to mental health treatment. White kids may listen to gangster rap.....but don't have a need to sell dope to make a living. White kids may listen to gangster rap......but their water isn't full of lead and other toxins making them violent. Finally, as goofy as it may seem.....most White kids despite listening ot gangstger rap and enjoying it still KNOW THAT THEY'RE WHITE AND NOT BLACK. Meaning, they may enjoy hearing about the wild crazy criminal life of the Black ghetto, but at the end of the day they know it's a reality they don't share and have no desire to so they feel no need to emulate it or re-enact it. Infact...... White kids of a more racist type like neo-nazis and skin-heads may listen to ganster rap and even PROMOTE it among themselves to confirms and re-affirm many of the negative stereotypes about Black people they already have. They believe and teach that Blacks are less intelligent and more violent and criminal minded and listening to Black rappers basically not only admit this in their music but brag about it......confirms their grandious beliefs of racial superiority.

Troy Pioneer anything is possible, but for me to believe Obama wanted Hillary to lose and Trump is inconceivable. Again I need a good reason to explain the motivation for Obama to want this outcome. I can't get into a brain as complicated as Obama's and try to figure out what would motivate his behavior. Nor am I blaming him totally for Clinton's loss. But I AM holding him PARTIALLY responsible for it because: a) He had a legal and legitimate opportunity to stop Trump before the election and refused to do so and b ) Instead of encouraging his Secretary of State and party's nominee to fight tooth and nail until the very end for one of the world's most important positions, he is one of the first to urge her to immediately surrender and admit defeat. Not sure what President Obama's motives were but those are facts, make of them what you will.

Cynique A black person can ignore this spoken epitaph, but they certainly aren't going to ignore physical aggression and a white person knows this. But if they don't take heed to the violent LANGUAGE that usually preceeds the violent ACT (as you propose they do), they may not be prepared for that violence. I've seen many fights in my life, and the vast majority of them were preceeded by angry violent talk and insults. No Black person with good sense is going to just shrug off being called a nigger by a White person because they almost intuitively know there will be more to follow. 　 i must say your description of your reaction to this word makes you sound like a mindless bull who somebody waved a red cape at. Just what goes on in your head when you react this irrational way?? Lol.... What was going on in YOUR head when you were going nuts trading insults with another Black woman (Sara) online? This wasn't even real life and you felt angry and frustrated enough to insist on retaliating each and every time she said something negative to you, but you're sitting up there scratching your head at MY reaction? Come on now, don't act like you're THAT disciplined and composed.....lol. Troy Motown, born and raised. But like most Black people in the North our relatives migrated from down South. Perhaps most Blacks in New York and Boston have different experiences because of the generations of Carribean and African immigrants. I'm sure there's still a strong presence of southern culture from the early Black migrants of Georgia and the Carolinas. 　 Black folks have adopted this culture and carried with them to the north. It is why you can't talk about their mommas, step on their sneakers, or use the word nigger with out they blowing a gasket, and even becoming murderous... Man, are you serious.....lol. Show me Black men ANYWHERE on this planet who don't get mad when you talk about their mammas or step on their shoes! Go to the continent of Africa, bump into any Black man you feel has had the least contact with White culture. If you can figure out his language, go ahead and talk about his mother and check out his reaction. Just make sure you have an escape plan....lol I know about the honor culture and it's routed in the collective consciousness of caucasians not only in the United States but in Europe, Russia, and the Middle East. This culture is mostly tied to SEXUAL activity and control over women. It's where the so-called "honor killing" comes from. No, this isn't some "honor code"..... The volatile reaction most Black men (and Black women) have to being called a nigger by White men comes from collective racial memory of the violence and murder that often surrounded the word. Like I said, if a White man is bold enough to walk up and call you a nigger to your face most likely he's in an "I don't give a fuck" mode in which he's so drunk or crazy that he doesn't care about the consequences of his actions. Most Black folks instinctively know this and that's what causes that reaction, they are preparing themselves for what may come next! By the way, you do know us niggers really did not wear pants back in Africa right? I can dig it! The "niggers" I see bouncing up and down the street are barely wearing their pants here in America! Besides..... Why would men with 7 or 8 wives wear pants anyway? They'd just get in the way and slow things down.

Cynique Where are you getting your information about what the President told Hillary Clinton??? Did she take Obama's advice instead of her husband's? Did she really buckle under pressure from him. i have my doubts. 　 It was all on the news right after the election....... http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/307536-obama-urged-clinton-to-concede-on-election-night 　 https://townhall.com/tipsheet/jasonhopkins/2016/11/26/on-election-night-obama-told-clinton-to-concede-n2250883 This article says that Hillary really didn't want to concede but Obama kept urging her to do so: http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/election-night-concede-peaceful-transition-of-power/2017/04/17/id/784868/ 　 　 Troy Pioneer I can;t know the answer to your questions, but if I followed your logic it would be reasonable to conclude that Obama actually wanted Hillary to lose and for Trump to be president. I find this hard to believe. Do you believe this @Pioneer1? If not who else would you explain Obama's behavior? Like John Gotti would say, "I dunno.....you tell me. Whudduz it look like to you?" Whether it's likely or not, do you think it's IMPOSSIBLE that Obama maybe would have wanted Hillary to lose? I can't figure out what was going on in the head of Obama or Clinton. What I DO know is Hillary had a very real chance to be president that night and it's hard to believe someone who put in all of those years of wheeling and dealing and becoming senator and secretary and campaigning and hard work and came THIS CLOSE to being president and ready to fight and challenge the election results......only for the head of the party to repeatedly urge her to go ahead and concede and give up. How could Obama, sitting on all of that information about Trump and the Russians STILL urge Clinton to just give up and accept defeat?

Cynique If white people started openly calling black people "nigger", and black people thwarted them by ignoring or laughing at them, the word would lose its power. White people use it as a weapon that makes black people explode, then they sit back and smugly admire their work What a SILLY conclusion to come to......lol. Do you really believe that? Life experience tells you that if a White person is bold enough to call you a nigger to your face, they're bold enough to do something else....often something VIOLENT. A friend of mine tells how a little white girl once called her a nigger and she laughed and stuck out her tongue at the little bitch who promptly broke down and started crying. I guess if a red faced White man with a rope in his hand walks up to you smelling like alcohol and calls you a "fucking nigger" to your face, I suppose you'll just poke your tongue out at him and POOF...he'll vanish into thin air, lol. There are worse things to be called than nigger. e.g. motherfucker, cocksucker, son of a bitch, asshole or cunt, Nigger is a slave term that is kept alive by the knee-jerk reaction it provokes. Such is life. With the exception of cocksucker and cunt, I've had White people both friendly and not so friendly call me all of those names.....and NONE of them affected me as nearly as negatively as when they called me a nigger. There's no getting around it, the word DOES have power. 　 Troy Actually "nigger does not really bother me. I've been called it by white folks a couple of times but never really felt threatened except for once and this was in Brooklyn NY. If a White man called himself a nigger, that wouldn't bother me.....but if he called ME a nigger that would! I remember the first time I was called a nigger it wasn't by a White person, but by an Arab. We were both kids and although he was ghetto and street, the way he said it to me let me knew there was no love behind it. The next time I was called it, I had just moved to some small town in the Pacific Northwest and got called a nigger almost every day by SOMEBODY driving pass me on the street until I moved after a few weeks....lol. A friend of mine pulled a good but dangerous joke on me a couple weeks ago. He saw me in a mall and followed me into a Kenneth Cole store and while I was holding a pair of pants he whispered at me in a disguised voice, "You niggers didn't wear pants back in Africa". Man, I threw the pants on the floor and everything felt like slow motion as I spun around and got ready for.....whatever. Even after I turned around and recognized it was him he IMMEDIATELY realized the damage he did...lol. The smile that was on HIS face disappeared to terror as he stepped back and put his hands up as if to say don't you recognize me...we're boys!!! I felt sorry for HIM for a minute because he looked like he was facing a mad dog...lol It took about 5 minutes for my pressure to go down and get out of "combat" mode. We went to the café for some conversation and I was STILL in high vibration...lol.

Although I didn't flinch at Bill Maher using it..... I kind of like the fact that Black people still have enough pride to actually GET ANGRY over words. It's called pride and dignity. When a people lose their pride and dignity, and start letting anyone call them anything without taking any offense to it what so ever, it won't be long before they start letting people DO anything to them without taking offense. One of the saddest things is to see so many smart intelligent Black people suppress the "fight" in them out of fear of looking uncivilized or overly offended. Remember, this is one of the things we criticized Obama for. He let too much shit go on with the opposition all because of this neurotic fear of being labeled as an "angry Black man". Right now the vast majority of racism is practiced covertly and in coded language, but if it gets to the point that White folks can start calling Black folks "nigger" and not expect to see a volatile reaction.....that'll give them the green light to practice more of it overtly.