richardmurray

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@Pioneer1 I will start with the honey and then the pot.... The Honey Well done, well done, I like when black people anywhere in humanity, think of new things, that is a form of nationalism. NAtionalism means a system of creation, making new. Pan -Africanism, which is about geography, not phenotype, which means it includes non black africans in that all encompassing view, for example mandela embraccing quadaffi as a fellow african liberator. quadaffi is not black, he is mulatto. but quadaffi is african. So, I haven't read anyoone else suggest that in this forum, and neither did I. I think becoming the majority leadership in the usa military all branches is a decent goal for Black DOSers in the USA. Why? Black DOSers in the usa have a financial problem, they will never have the fiscal background to compete with non blacks, especially whites, in the usa. Enslavement matters, financially, inheritance is not the primary way of gaining fiscal wealth for nothing. Our forebears who were enslaved and then handed freedom by whites, didn't have any fiscal inheritance to give nor had any uneven financial opportunities, as MLK jr said, so... this means, Black DOSers are simply financially slower than all others,because all others, even Black Immigrants have an external financial source, in the country they came from which is a huge advantage. you see this with any number, puerto ricans/jamaicans/nigerians/japanese/brasilians/// it doesn't matter, having a country outside the usa allows all other groups in the usa except the first peoples/native american to have a way to financially support themselves or manipulate their wealth safely frm the usa. the irish did with with ireland, the italians did it so famously with italy, it is a movie trope. Black DOSers don't have an external country. Most white americans are german americans, germany is a rich country which has a lot of financial possibilities to help them. Russia for russian americans. china for chinese americans... So, the government becomes very important for Black DOSers as a tool, history proves this. If it wasn't for the federal government, black people would be in the same fiscal situation we were in before the 1960s which was mostly enslaved to whites, through sharecropping with terrible contracts or imprisonment on multiple charges of light crimes. So... I even argue where are the Black members of the Party of Abraham Lincoln? This should be there platform? But, good idea. The Pot first,while an idea with a goal not done is a new thing, a nationalism, the us military is not something black nationalist can say is born from blacks, and is clearly not pan african. So you need to separate the goal from those two philosophies. I consider your idea integratory. It isn't nationalistic or pan african but that of an integrationist, which makes sense cause the usa has always been integrationist. Why? the usa has always been about some abusing others, to abuse another they have to be integrated to you. BUT to help another also requires integration. The good news is that outside your rhetoric around this issue, which needs polishing, the idea itself is a sound goal. The question is getting to that goal. Just on a leisure glance, one step to that process can be converting a historical black college into a military school. I can't recall any historical black college that is a military school. Why do you need military schools. Military schools serve an important function in making officers. Enlisted men take too long. HAving someone start off at the bottom of the officer core is essential in making their path higher easier. So, more will be needed, nothing is impossible, go for it. My strategic contributions are 1) get the Black Elephants/Party of Abraham Lincolm behind this. I think it fits them better than the Black Donkeys/PArty of Andrew Jackson. 2) convert a historical black college into a military school for officers , that is mandatory to grow an officer class that can achieve filling the top ranks of all branches of the usa military. You can not achieve your goal absent military schools, enlisted men no matter how many can not manifest the goal. The officers corp of most militaries will always be a club, it isn't a place you can run by earning your way in, you need to be a member from day one. In aMendment this will take time for your tribe in the village , but I Think your idea has legs. It will take time, but it is doable, and most importantly, has high functionality with the reality of black dosers. And... being even minded, even if the movement fails, it will create a stronger tribe of black people who fit your viewpoints : not entertainers, all have taken a public oath to the usa, though the military school enforces booker t washington's functional skills focus not scholarly focus of others, which is more hands on. DO IT! Calendar post

@Pioneer1 you didn't know the stageplay, the wiz:) the stageplay came out before the film, its popularity is why diana ross wanted the roll, berry dgordy warned her against it

@ProfD Well... in the future if you go far ahead enough all places have another golden time plus a feces time, that is why of life. If you mean within fifty years , I don't think so. But I am glad you have this insider information that seems to be unknown to many people black or non black, so use it to gain fiscal wealth. well yes, especially in the last five hundred years, again, humanity has been around a while, so I resist speaking on all of human history, i prefer some temporal domains on any issue in my read of history most whites don't either. most humans simply do not,at least in my read of human history. I don't know the number of iranians murdered by usa +israel in the last two years, i know it is high, and i know that the seeds of great negativity are being born of it that will become something one day i repeat many soldiers on battlefields, with the most deadly weapons, trained every day, being shot at, are unable to use weapons, the presence of a weapon in your hands plus daily training plus your personal life threatened still doesn't equal automatic will to use weapons. the biggest problem in your allusion is the dysfunctional relationship between individuals and groups. The individual in an abusive relationship side another individual has a great difference between a group in an abusive relationship side another group. When George Stinney was unevenly incarcerated by white law enforcers, chaoticly and violently mobbed by white citizens, George Stinney's parents couldn't simply raise an army from the black populace. The black populace as a group isn't getting benefits, nor is the black populace as a group hoping and praying the abuse will stop, the black populace as a group doesn't have a group mechanism. A woman running from a man is not the same as a group of people running from another. Remember, in any two groups interaction you have individual interactions in all ways. During the time of George Stinney some black killed whites. It is about the mechanics of the group. And to that end, the black populace of the usa has had various internal mechanics, but at the moment, the black populace of the usa has arguably the weakest internal mechanics, but based on black individuals who have chosen to influence the larger group that way. And the non black, specifically old white populace has the same problem today. The reality is, in the 1900s the white populace in the usa became internally multiracial, like the black. So the 2026 white populace has a more complex internal mechanics than in 1960s, or mid nineteen hundreds or earlier and many whites in the usa, especially the old whites, are having problems comprehending the change in internal mechanics of the white populace, cause it was never like this before. the usa produced the most innovation , I don't know about that. the first satellite was russian/soviet the first system to have a human being in space was russian soviet the first integrated computer was english the fastest submarine is russian/soviet , using liquid metal heated by the engine the fastest torpedo is soviet using supercavitation the only domestic use of nuclear power engines is russian/soviet- these are ships that break ice circa north pole the first rockets or jet fighters are german the earliest airships or dirigibles are french/german the best dam building is from russia/soviets the mapping of the genome was an international effort, it wasn't one country first printed circuit boards were german first electronic watch was swiss the first electronic watch with peizoelectric was nippon/japan we all know about benz from germany and the single stroke engine, his poor wife. Everyone knows the usa never produced better weapons than germany during the second white european imperial war, but the usa , like china which is interesting historically, are both big copiers and mass producers. Innovation, new things, the usa isn't a big new things country.Other countries tend to do that more during the usa's two hundred and fifty years. Most technologies their source isn't the usa. The usa did make the television. But the one innovation the usa did make that truly warrants note, through ford, was the assembly line. And it is interesting cause the concept of the assembly line is about the goal of mass production. An assembly line can have a bunch of human beings with torches, but the key to technological changes, polishings, is the assembly line pushes mass production which is truly usa and something that china has grabbed onto as a concept in light of the usa. Crafting from ancient times was never a mass produced idea, the idea is to make something efficient, long lasting, but the assembly line idea busted through that concept. In parallel, when I look at soviet russia, arguably the problem with soviet russia is that it truly adopted the german technological heritage from the weimar district of efficient innovation, the ancient human heritage of quality craft. The usa created the modern culture of hype schools, the ivy leagues. In the usa you say you go to a school or work for a firm and the hype of that is superior to the quality of a place. In germany , demerit is real, failure leads to demerit. but in the usa, one can exist above demerit. You see this with Schrumpft, he epitomizes that statian heritage in government. Wheras in germany in weimar, the idea was effectiveness. As I said to you before, the usa's greatest two aspects is : one break away from the british and two, the culture of advertisement from the declaration of independence through the radio, the usa didn't create radio, through television, through the internet [the usa did create the protocols used by most today, but not the internet itself, the internet is really a web of webs of various protocols made by various groups or organizations, the usa through its advertising skill got most to fall in line to it] the usa is a master of selling ideas, not the truth, but selling ideas, getting people to buy into them, prosyletization [ which I can't stand but there you have it] . If you look deep alot of technologies were not from the usa but the usa mass manufactured, that fiscal capitalistic power made sure the usa profited financially from it, but that ins't innovation. Just because someone makes money off a thing doesn't mean they thought of it. And to black folks, people will say george washington carver was american but Percy Julian proves black engineers in days past didn't see themselves as american, not honestly. You say things in public, but do you really believe. As james baldwin said, very honestly, which is rare for most in the public eye, I paraphrase, his father never hurt whites one bit, but his father hated whites to the pit of his soul. We talk about black parenting and why it was so harsh but black parents weren't happy. I think we as descendents of black parents of mid to late eighteen hundreds to mid nineteen hundreds , as per the usa's influence, have created an advertisement campaign to ourselves, lying about our forebears to make our choices seem better. @Pioneer1 glad you are enjoying yourself @Mel Hopkins Also you can stream TubiTV. A lot of our creative work, films, tv series, documentaries are airlng on Tubi and the creators also get paid. (I don't know how much though) you don't need to sign in either all you need is a browser and internet connection. BUT Tubi is owned by Rupert Murdoch. have you seen this? I am going to apply, working on my screenplay will you take part? if not at least share https://aalbc.com/tc/events/event/668-tubi-x-blacklist-horror-initiative-2026-challenge-final-day/ @Pioneer1 yeah , good financial pint, but financially, you have to embrace the truth that no poor peoples ever did anything in the usa. here is the problem, from 1865 to 1980 the Jim crow era, you had a change in the culture of the wealthy, the gilded age was late 1800s , and i argue for blacks the gilded age was early 1900s with madame cj walker, what do most fiscally wealthy people have in common from late 1800s to 1920s... by the time of the first white european imperial war the body of wealthy people in the usa went through a huge change. alot of the fiscally poor people, black or non black or other , in the late 1800s actually grew up fiscally poor, so when they chose to help they were serious because they were actually poor at one time in their life, but their children and grandchildren weren't them. and after what carnegie did, many of the children of the gilded, engineered wealth and money making to be a very inherited things. If you look at most wealthy people today in the black populace for example, it is like whites, mostly inheritors. In the 1960s black people with money were mostly people born financially poor who made it rich but now, inheritors is ninety percent like with all demographics or peoples in the usa, What is my point? The people with money in a community are always the financial leaders and in absence it is tough. I can take nyc, the financial center of white jews/irish/italians and all three have their mobs to thank for everything. what are mobs ? financially wealthy organizations involved in illegal activities, run by people mostly grew up poor. When the italians/white jews/irish folk wanted to go legal they still used illegal money to make it happen. So, you need the big money folk. To that end, everyday I see black millionaires and billionaires investing in white enterprises. they are not blind, they know the black populace has needs, so if they are unwilling to use their money to support he black populace, then they simply are. Again, how many black people from the 1960s to today paid for a black person to go to a non historical black college? that is arguably billions of dollars mostly given to non black colleges? black colleges are arguably the oldest non religious /secular black organizations in the united states of america, so... no excuse for lack of heritage. I comprehend your greater point but you need to really eye the black fiscal wealthy for that lacking. And if for no other reason, fiscal honesty. that jewish art gallery, where you get your money from, the loans, the local bank? feces,you had some rich white jew help you, through the synagoge. that italian construction company, where you get the commissions? on merit, feces, you had connections with your cousin in the mob. I don't think any shame exist getting help, but for some reason, maybe @ProfD can answer, people in the usa have a huge problem being honest when it comes to who helped them out financially. They seem ashamed to say it is a mob or a financial friend in some form? why be ashamed? the usa has never been place where the public way leads to anything. Women in the usa who have big houses and sent all their kids to school talk about how they worked hard... you got a financial stipend from a man who abused you worth millions of dollars. You married a billionaire forty years your senior. I am not criminalizing, but too many in the usa who have wealth are very ashamed of their history of financial transactions. How many black people started businesses with fbi/cia money? when they gave them cash to sell out black people and they used that to start businesses, support their kids? why can't they say? what are they ashamed of? whites in the usa who got money from their great uncle who runs a private prison which has been in operation since the late 1800s, a family treasure. not paying encarcerated people while they took all the money and skimmed for road building. If more people in the usa would admit the truth of their financial transactions especially in financing, that would push people to embrace fiscally wealthy people being responsible for not investing in things. Stop telling fiscally poor people about their pennies. @Mel Hopkins every group barely has newspapers, should black people be that financially other? again, in NYC, i see lot of newspaper gravesites. is it up to blacks to go against financial trends in a country where we are not the majority populace? @Pioneer1 It isn't crazy, why do you say it is crazy? every fiscal firm has numerical realities. paper cost money, reporters cost money [cost of living/extra wage/competitive wage influence], shipping newspapers cost money. Can you get advertising for your newspaper? the village voice is gone, that was a public newspaper, the reason was simple, it was unaffordable, even with adveritisng the adult /erotic/similar stuff, they couldn't afford their cost of operation. Your saying its crazy black people don't have newspapers like clearly if I started a newspaper right now in debt, the debt would be covered in a month. I think newspapers are a negative business. First,the two methods of getting money are thin now: subscriptions + advertisements. Subscriptions are tough cause across the demographic board in the usa, so not just black people, people don't read long form. or paper based communication. many newspapers have tried online but again, a website isn't free to host, a website cost money to maintain and overtime only increase. Advertising is tough cause advertisers have metrics, in the past or today, they know what people aren't viewing/being influenced by, so why should a firm advertise. Look at the amsterdam news in NYC. it is fortunate. It has a black wealthy populace in NYC, specifically manhattan that is old, has a heritage of support for the amsterdam news. Most black newspapers don't have a fiscally wealthy black minority in the black populace of the city they are in like the Amsterdam News. And I know you well enough that you always want to fall on the fiscally poor only using black newspapers to keep them alive but... I can't tell what would reading the amsterdam news really give back to the fiscal black poor of nyc if they were to each invest per month or two weeks into the amsterdam news.

@Pioneer1 just noting how short the women who portray dorothy have been nice story hahaha:)

@ProfD based on the first peoples heritage, lifestyle , the answer is no. but white europeans publicly admitted they came to destroy the native american no to improve anything concerning the native american so... life is balance, a country started by takers is itself took. White immigration is older than the usa, like so many things about the usa , the usa's birth didn't start any oof it. that immigration heritage didn't start in 1776 but started in 1492. The blood feud between whites and blacks didn't start in 1776 but started in 1492. Yes the usa has technology had many eras from 1776 to 2026. But, in terms of the people, the heritage, the culture, the usa is in my mind, only a little different than the white european colonies. Again JAmes Forten was a black man who owned a business in the english colonies and afterward with the creation of the usa but the black 1% has always existed. So... the meat and potatoes of the usa are older than the usa. a foothold, what stopped them these past fifty odd years, what defines a foothold? and who are these investors exactly? well, did one white man enslave black people or did white people enslave black people. From my reading of history this was group activities not singular individuals so... The question is what are blacks going to do and if very few blacks are willing to come together and do then their resides the reason for the , pool or negativity. Not all problems are individual based. One person can't handle the humans responsible. And for the record, just to make sure in case any read this, i never said my plans to the future include mass genocide. My point is that many black people want that, but they don't have the courage for that. And I will not criminalize them because many people don't have the stomach for killing. And soldiers will tell you, with all the training and sergeants yelling and speeches, many soldiers are cowards. In movie land, every soldier is looking to fight but anyone who knows anything about war knows all armies are full of cowards, masquerading behind a gun. So, I will not chagrin unarmed black people from not having the courage to be violent, again the ira was only 300 people in an island with millions of irish, i am not expecting a mass violent uprising from black dosers in the usa, nor do I plan for that, but I am also honest enogh to admit many black people quietly, hate whites and this country , and it is a strong heritage, which leads to a desire to not involve in this country or with its whites. And sadly, it also leads to a potent place of despair. many alternatives or other paths, as DOSers are the proof 1) Not all DOSers view whites of the usa as the enemy, again James forten. So your question misses the blacks who don't view whites as the enemy in the first place, and infinite paths come from this. 2) To those too cowardly, for whatever reason [and many reasons exists for not killing, not merely fear of killing] infinite paths exist, the following are some. I) live peacefully with the enemy. and this takes many forms, as DOSers show. II) find a land absent the enemy, and this can take you anywhere, as DOSers show. Well , some parents care for their children wisely, not all. and some parents don't care for their children wisely. As an artists, someone in an art community one said that Disney is needed for kids to have something positive. We were discussing the lack of complex relations in disney stories. and, thinking on a thought i had communicating with you about the USA having only two aspects of itself 1) splitting from the english empire 2) the perception of usa eternity. I realize thinking on parents in the usa, I was incorrect. 2 ) is media weapons. The USA has a level of media unlike any country. The declaration of independence is an advertisement to a fake product. But when I extend beyond that I see, the firms or peoples of the USA are also heavy media folk. The daughters of the american revolution worked to get a fals emedia narrative as truth, to this day, many people of all phenotypes still adhere to the pfaux history that the daughters of the american revolution created. But it extends to many. Immigrant parents. How many immigrant parents have i heard say, they love the usa. A lie. They don't love the usa, they were desperate for financial betterment and went to the best place to get it with the least effort. Black DOSers, if I hear one more black doser talk about forebears wanting to be Statian of the usa, i will eat my own gizzard. Another lie. And the funny thing is , any research into black art 1865 proves black people were very anti usa + white . but headed by the damn black church, this myth of desired americanism came about so much so that most black people in the usa today, act in concert to that lie. And thus to Disney, Disney comprehended the majority of people in the usa, the customers, like to lie and lie to others and be lied to, and the internet proves this. the internet as it is today is a usa creation and it proves the character of the majority in the usa gardless of phenotype/gender or any racial category. The fables that disney took came from germany, a country that has its many biases but tends to actually be more honest. From martin luther who couldn't stand the commercialization of the medici popes, the nazis who never said they were interested in world peace or making peace, the nazis for all of their violence or criminal behavior never lied about their intentions to others. they lied to themselves about their own infallicy, and it is interesting how the whites of the usa was the nazis primary mimick of style, learn lies from the biggest liar, but the nazi's still retained a level of german honesty. So yeah, thank you profd, the usa has two elements from itself 1) breaking away from england 2) media weaponry culture but the individualism/fiscal capitalism/multiracialism/immigration/regional infighting heritages or cultures were actually started by the english in the colonial era, not of the usa. and I argue haven't changed much since then. Technology changing is a human thing, that has nothing to do with any country, that is human.

@ProfD but the issue we are discussing is what people deem as wins, what is accomplishment? is accomplishment what you say it , what i say it is? I argue the definition to wins or accomplishments changes twixt individuals or groups and so it is challenging to apply standards of wins/accomplishment between individuals or groups. and to the point you raised, not all white folks are trying to kick them out... this goes back to Monrovia ... many whites did support blacks leaving but most supported blacks staying in the usa in perpetuity as enslaved, so much so making the happy slave myth to make themselves feel better even point. I comprehend your viewpoint 100% the problem for the usa is it was founded by takers, if you consider the native american heritages and cultures, the usa was founded by takers, who adding nothing positive to what was in existence.. so the usa has a heritage of willing immigrants mostly adding nothing except negativities, with only a minority adding positives to the current situation. Chaos starters if you look at the settlers in palestinean lands, that is all they do... they don't grow anything, they definitely don't add to peace so... When israel first started it had a huge zionist movement, but I argue, that the majority of white jews or even jews in humanity where anti zionist from a personal level, meaning they support the existence of israel but never want to live there. I shared in this forum somewhere the reform jewish numbers. most jews are not orthodox are not looking to go to israel. but many give money/ support to keep it afloat. so... the people who tend to go there ... are a rarer type. Israel has many issues but again, it was started chaotically, so I don't see why it having a chaotic life isn't expected. nature says nothing is ever totally true true and to that end, that is also the problem , the usa isn't a small town, it is a country of three hundred and fifty million people who are in dissimilar environments. A solid thirty percent of black people in the usa and I argue fifty percent of Black DOSers live in small black towns where their financial life is very challenging from non black influences. I don't live in that exact environment and yet their are the financially affluent black regions of Los Angeles or NYC or Atlanta where everyone black is millionaire or better. so... yes, the us has different places , different financial environments , always has, and they don't relate. So when the usa is spoken of in one way, because a person lives in one particular place is that reflective of the usa? no, it is reflective of a particular place in the usa. That is not the same. Ahh yes and that is a very statian turn of phrase. you see, life is even, life is beautiful. nature is even, nature is beautiful. And, life isn't fair/white nor is it schartz/black, nature as well isn't fair or schwartz. Human beings manipulate life into uneveness. manipulate life into being fair or schwartz. IT isn't life that brings negative or positive obstacles in humans lives, it is other humans. Those who confuse human actions as life is the great dysfunction, this goes back to NAt Turner, Jean JAcques Dessalines, the IRA, what they are saying is Blacks folks problems aren't life but whites or Irish peoples problems aren't life but English. Kill the whites, kill the english and life becomes its natural neutral state. The problem is humans are not fools inside, they can tell themselves that life isn't even, but they know the truth is life is even, it is other humans making their lives uneven that they need to change and the best way to do that isn't to play games with the humans that are making their lives uneven but to kill those humans making their lives uneven , and in face with that truth, many humans lament, the lie they were raised with. I have seen this , as a tutor, I have seen black parents say such things with my own eyes and I have refuted them to black children in their presence. It isn't life that is hard, your not broke/you don't have opportunities or resources because nature/earth/life used ocean water and made a huge tide and grabbed our forebears off the land and carried our forebears in a bubble to other lands. Your challenges are white made, not life made. Existence is always even, always beautiful and never white/fair nor black/schwartz So admit the humans that are truly behind your woes which your parents know is true, but are lying to you because they themselves have never faced the true source of their own woes, which is whites. And I will defend the pond of helplessness. It is no accident that the IRA was only three hundred people , it is no accident that Black DOSers in what became Haiti alone made a country for DOSers in the American continent. The helpness comes because of another truth, all humans know humans are the ones that make life imabalnced, it is never life itself, life is always trying to reach balance. Life is never trying to be white or black or uneven in any way. So that means some humans have to be taken out but most don't have the courage for that. And this is what Zen meant. People think Zen means the person who does nothing amidst the chaos but misses that isn't Zen, what Zen says is that any action is acceptible in nature. What this means isn't that one must exist within chaos, what it means is any action, no matter how violent isn't a sin, isn't a negative, isn't anything to be afraid of. And that wisdom is what most parents,,, sadfully, don't convey to their children or are too afraid to face themselves.

@ProfD I remember listening to an immigrant to the usa, who is homeless, a mexican or mesitzo from somewhere in latin america. He flat out said, his goal was to get in the usa... so for many immigrants, not all, but many they win by merely being in the usa, as the accomplishment, even if they are only squatting. And that is their choice but there you have it, to answer the question of accomplishment. This is why comparing wins is hard, because one person's win is not another person's win. Yes... with the addition that again, some people leave with no need to make the destination country better, as muc has the destination country has what they are looking for. When you look at israel, many jews go to israel to simply be among jews, it is not to be rich or produce as you say or "make it better" as much as the environment is satisfactory for them, the win is the move , but moving takes time, it isn't magic. And you can't force it through hard work. my forebears worked very hard and often got nothing of what they wanted because hard work still requires opportunity and if you don't opportunity, you don't. and without violence, peace blockades some forms of opportunity. yes with the addition that the quantity of black people getting what they want, I will call that successful, is far less based on non black potency because blacks are abused at no fault of their own by whites. When competition isn't even, when it has criminal actions that is highly manipulative, especially in the financial realm. I know you see the USA as a place that allows any individual to succeed but I don't think that is financially true. To rephrase, negative unmerited blockades or abuses are applied to people in the usa which means individuals don't have the ability to succeed. Athletes are the best examples. A black baseball played , playing today admitted in the players journal, if it wasn't for my community in some area of florida, placing themselves in debt he wouldn't had made it as a baseball player. That is not an environment for all to succeed, that is called an environment of failure. and this is the key variance, in your mind, effort overcomes environment. The numbers show, effort never overcomes environment. A negative financial environment defined as an environment designed to hinder financial positive movement, succeeds in majority in the usa historically, all phenotypes. IT isn't that effort overcame environment as much as environment, which in the financial sense is a human construct can not be designed perfectly/a complete work, and the environment ALLOWS a percentage of those in it to succeed which happens. You and others think it is effort overcoming the negativities of the environment when in truth it is the system merely allowing success for a minority. Which is the USA way.

@aka Contrarian yes she did:) with the grand dames:) did you get to see a show? @Pioneer1 yes Stephanie mills is tiny, and so was judy garland who was another dorothy

@ProfD thank you @Pioneer1 thank you any potential laws @frankster @aka Contrarian @admin?

@Pioneer1 hahahaa:) Well done

@ProfD well... I see, When you speak about leaving an under developed home country to struggle in another country, i think of the conquistador i think of the white european imperial era through france/spain/portugal/netherlands Of the european powers, the only one that built countries as you said were the english, it wasn't really the common way. all the others only wanted to extract resources and leave a set of mixed breeds to manage things to funnel money into whatever european center country. Spain and france and portugal famously had to pay white women to go while the english... was able to et whole communities to go. In the end of the day, the english didn't do it for the building of countries. The english pushed their colonies to be pan white, multiwhite, individualist, not to become the usa or canada or austrailia one day, but to be a haven to make money. Remember the english colonies were not profitable in the international market compared to any of the others. the money in the english colonies was actually in the english colonies spending money. BEcause the english colonies actually invited hordes of white europeans they were given a financial status, that the non white european majority populaces in the non english colonies couldn't get, so the first industry of the usa was as a market place, not because it was special but because it became the first true white european country outsdie europe. Essentailly english goods had a controlled marketplace for tea/furniture and other english content. That was the financial purpose of the usa. its external traffic was not its main finanial agenda. for england. well first, for DOSers if you don't view a country as your home country then their is nothing to build up. Again some blacks liek james forten, start business fight and die , having chose the usa as ther home but then they ask questions like you to other black people who havent decided the usa is their home. You use the word prevention but you have to first view the usa as your home, brasil as you rhome, india as your home... before you can act like it is . Black pople are descended of enslaved folk, i argue in our heart, we aren't interested in being black versions of white europeans. yes, cases exist but on average, we have a vengeanful desire but not a enslavement desire. yes the caribs are black native americans, like the negrito black asians. Non verbal action always speaks louder than words. But I get the logic, if you focus on building no matter how many times another burns your house down, you may never realize that you need to stop building where you are cause the place you are is crap. no the first question s what is the definition of winning because the definition of winning dictates what is needed to win, and not all definitions of winning are the same, especially for DOSer. One black person can say they have won and mean nothing to another black person cause they dont share the same meaning of winning. I didn't question possibility, i said the pwoer of will and desire, this one instance doesnt prove will and desire, it proves circumstance, @Pioneer1 I suggest we, meaning black people anywhere on earth, each discover or learn who we are as individuals and who we want to be as part of black groups and then relate that to wherever we live. Yes, it isn't as simple as all others in humanity, but it gives us a freedom of identity. Black DOSers who embrace the usa as their home. need to accept the truth of fiscal capitalism when it comes to legal or illegal financial activity. The great fort nes in fiscal capitalism come in majority through criminal activity.whether that criminal activity is legally noted or not. Second to comprehend the financial limits of being in a multiracial scoiety where all races are free to grow, it means financial control over others is always going to be limited long term

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@ProfD Well one big correction, the heritage of pan immigration wasn't statian, or of the usa that was actually the english empires doing. The english empire was the one who started the pan immigration starting with pan white europeans, the english didn't have to but the english saw a chance to make money. You suggest the best and the brightest... I don't know about that, but the truth is the usa unlike other countries is willing to grab individuals from the largest labor pool, gardless of their quality. Add enslavement + Genocide to the list of factors on the path of super powedom, it is interesting people mention money and military strength, but never genocide, never enslavement, why? why can't they be mentioned along side the others, they are equal or more important in the path to the super powerdom. Very true, but again when the usa was english colonies that was the beginning of the immigration heritage of the usa. The problem with the usa is that the white power/white terror/pan immigration/multiracial peace/individualism that the usa touts as elements of itself were not started in 1776 but before, the only thing the usa did was take what the english colonies was doing and separate it from england. But all the factors you speak of were english colonial factos , started then by england, not the colonist. Your adding alot of commercial statements to your prose here. I As for the future, I don't know. You are certain, which i think is foolish, to me nothing is more foolish than those who know the future. And I am in error, the usa actually created two things, 1) the seperation from england, 2) the invincibility heritage, I do realize the usa when it was founded had doubts to its life, from its very white european founders, but over the years i do realize a usa eternalism was born and it seems to have adherents in all races. Thank you for helping me take time to think on that. You are not the first to say the usa will be in perpetuity in my earshot offline or online. But, thinking on it, somewhere in the history of the usa, the doubt the founders had was replaced by an eternal certainty that by my ears extends to all races. I wonder when it started. but, the individualism/immigration/multiracial peace/pan white power/pan white terror all stemmed from the english empire's administration of the colonies that would become the usa. @aka Contrarian if you look at the history of the usa, it is a country used to internal wars. I will list them. war of secession from the british empire was mostly fought by people who lived in what would become the usa. war of 1812 was the same, fought mostly by those who lived in what would become the usa Seminole wars, between first peoples side blacks against whites war between the states, fought between whites with various non white european allies In between the wars above or just before the first one mentioned are the new england wars, the kansas wars, the carolina wars, virginia wars. The usa has a vibrant heritage of internal violence. Even white people admit more black people died after the war between the states then before, now no one calls it the black white war rather jim crow or the nadir of american race relations but in my view it was in the era of jim crow, 1865 to 1980, the black white war which ended in 1965 with white victory but a law by whites to reduce white violence. What is my point? The usa will split is the most probably outcome, in some form or fashion, based on how people in the usa act and its historical commonalities. The usa has never had a we in itself, it uses that word a lot but the usa has never been a we and with such a multiracial populace, not being a we lends to fractures. in that environment, the key is where you live when it fractures, don't be on the fracture line and hopefully be in the section that you are accepted in. @Pioneer1 The funny thing is white peoples statistics show, the majority of the people who come in aren't skilled or educated. It is a simple truth. Yes, a minority and large when you consider the population growth of the usa, but the ovrwhelming majority of immigrants to the usa in every year has always been unskilled or uneducated people. I don't know where people get this, idea that usa gets the most skilled people. I don't know where that comes from , cause whites admit it isn't true, so it must be some wild myth.

@ProfD what determines an ancestral homeland? I am not saying your wrong, or I am not saying a black person whose forebears were enslaved from africa by whites can't say a locale whites shipped them to can't be considered a homeland if they choose, but the choices are still open I give three examples 1) all black peoples enslaved from africa whether they went to the american continent or the asian continent or the european continent have one thing in common, their african ancestry is continental. I have said in this forum before, if anywhere in africa is my hmeland it is the literal continent itself because my forebears who were enslaved come from all over. Often when people immigrate freely, they may call themselves, european/asian/african/south american, but in truth they mean a specific local in a continent. right? but fr DOSers we have to mean, by way of how enslavement worked, the continent of africa itself and considering descended of enslaved people were sent everywhere outside africa, not merely the american continent, a continental ancestry suits all of us whatever countries our forebears were enslaved in. Black People like you or me exist in brasil in india , what shared history heritage/what we carry do we have? that our forebears were all enslaved from africa by whites/ various whites. so I think a continental ancestry , not a local in a continent is historically unquestionable, even if it is also unique among human groups. But, that is fate for you 2)I do think the seas itself is a valid homeland in its own way. the one thing that unites all descneded of enslaved people from africa is that most of our forebears died on the ships to wherever, again not just the usa but all the places, so the sea is where most of our forebears... or at least where most of mine are buried. You have said in the past that because those who died on the boat didn't have issue they are not but I oppose that view. because many black dos lineages have died through the centuries because of white terror anywhere, it is uneven to not include all the people enslaved on the boat , some of whom were definitely genetically related to those who survived. Again, not an common place but the DOS experience is not common . Yes, slavery is throughout all human history, but the mechanics of pan white enslavement to pan blacks in the period of the continental slave trades had unique forms. that were never seen before or since. 3) this is two queries to your position. I)I want clarification to where you stand to places outside the usa that have black dosers. Brasil has to be first on the list as no place in the american continent has more black DOSers than brasil. Brasil had dosers before the usa, so what you are saying is black dosers in brasil's homeland is brasil? what about black dosers in india, india had DOSers before Brasil did by white muslims, so what you are saying is black dosers in india's homeland is india? II) concerning the time, you mention the centuries black dosers have been in a country, in this case usa, as warranting its labeling as a homeland, but is your position that it applies to all DOSers in a particular country whether they view it or not or is it optional? For me, and many other dosers, i want to be the first in my bloodline to choose a homeland, i think that had value. I don't care how long my bloodline has been in the usa, this for me is not my choice or the choice of my forebears. I think having the choice of making a homeland for yourself is one of the gifts DOS forebears gave all DOSers , we don't have to have any allegiance to any of these countries: usa/brasil/india because our forebears never did. It is the freedom to choose. As long as me or any in my bloodline is in the usa, it is a continuation of white peoples desires, not the desires of my own people. I can't call my homeland on what whites desired. And no, I don't think the fiscal reality or impotency of my forebears in not being able to go wherever they want should be held against them. So I conclude with I think your position is true but as an optional. not a definitive. and that is key. based on that logic didn't white europeans themselves do that ? it wasn't like ireland was rich, or itlay when the italian hordes came in was rich. And the english who came were from the poor parts of england, they weren't the relatives of the queen fand kings of england. so... outside the native american, who was murdered by immigrants, all other peoples in the usa are immigrants, but only DOSers are immigrants who were forced here, all other immigrants ran from poverty , did they not? You say giving up and running to the colonizers house but lets be more pure, giving up and running away in general , does that make sense? cause the original white european immigrants ran away from their poverty in europe and didn't choose to make any european country better... The whole usa outside two peoples is built on people who were fiscally poor and ran away from it. I have said it before, DOSers anywhere are free to choose. that is the gift, we are not bound, until we choose to be and present that truth to the next generation, each has to make their choice a heritage, And I feel most black DOSers have never done that, and it isn't up to black dosers to apply our desires to each other, i argue, we should honor each other by leaving it open. But, to DOSers born in the USA, specifically, the only place I can think of that we all should consider based on heritage, our history, is Monrovia, not liberia, but monrovia. yes, black DOSers born in the usa settled in many places outside the usa, black dosers leave the usa every year, for many other lands, to become their homelands, even though we don't seem to know that as a people. But, I think we have a responsibility to Monrovia , as it was started by Black DOSers specifically from the USA. Now can all black dosers born in the usa move to monrovia:) no, but i do think we owe it to ourselves to do better there in some fashion. even enough, for me it isn't about wealth or wars, but the condition of freedom. Black groups in every country in humanity have a fiscally wealthy person, but that isn't enough for me to rank or relate the various black groups, the condition of freedom is what i am looking for and i see little variance in that in any country. I can't think of any black populace in a country that isn't a wealthy black 1% aside a fiscally poor black 99%, usa/brasil/india/south africa/jamaica, what differs the black populaces in any of the countries. in terms of collective freedom. I say nothing. but in the future, will be seen. I am a little confused by the part, bringing a terrorist into one's country , we are talking about DOSers, and in india/brasil/usa and many other countries, like a jamaica DOSers have been born side the terrorist whites. I only have one question, are black people in general allowed to admit we have been financially abused? If I have a house and white terror has taken the house, in your opinion, am I allowed to mention it or is mentioning that financial truth crying? If I have a parent sent to jail falsely or unevenly by whites, in your opinion, am I allowed to mention it or is mentioning that financial truth grumbling? I do believe in creating, in nationalism, I like doing, but I like telling the truth and unfortunately, truths for black DOSers tend to be negative, I will apologize for fate, but that is the truth. Our personal histories tend to face financial obstacles, which I feel need to be said , I argue we DOSers have spent far too long being quiet. Again, Pioneer talks about the law alot, but lets call it like it is, the quantity of financial crimes against black people that has gne to court int he usa is less than one percent per year, that is a lot money taken from us. Maybe you will call that complaining but.. I rather it said than not. You are 100% correct, but the absolute truth requires an addition , winning is based on how they define winning and black DOSers don't define winning the same way. I shouldn't have to go into history for you to know this. @admin you know already that raising the price of a good already diminishes those who can afford it, and like the ferrari brand or apple brand shows in the automotive or electronics industries, the higher priced items do have markets but they always lose volume. and reach a volume wall,which is a point of stagnation which the publicly traded environment hates. cause speculation/things to look at that don't have a constant increaseable factor lose their market viability. So you and profd believe a homeless black man can get a house based on will and desire... hmmmm ok,

@ProfD Well, the issue isn't allowing the issue is who can stop this from going to war. The USA has a long history of internal military conflicts. The secession from the english empire was mostly fought between peoples who were of the english colonies and other european colonies. it wasn't colonists vs the english, it was colonist vs colonist. one side of colonist had aid from the french military and spanis military, the other side of colonist had aid from the english military. In the war of 1812, it was the same, many people in the usa fought with the english to reclaim the usa. new england/virginia/carolinas/kansas all had regional wars between whites. and then came the war between the states. The creation of the federal bureau of investigation was first for the original klu klux klan whose mission it was to become the largest subcommunity in the white populace and thus take over the usa, the fbi, through all sorts of means undid the original klu klux klan, which i argue prevented armed conflict from a larger scale occuring in the white populace in the usa. Then the fbi and other agencies did similar into all organizations in the usa to make sure none ... led to anything, so to speak. The nation of islam, the sons of odin, the tong, every organization in the usa i hear has a three letter agent and their sole role has to be quelling any organizations ability to start a massive armed conflict in the usa, which will lead to larger ones as in the past. This the 1950s 1960s 1970s where many people in the usa were... taken out of commission in various ways. Now in modernity, I argue, the military + three letter organizations are the ones keeping this piece, not so called liberal whites or so called conservative whites. it is the military industrial complex keeping the peace. I don't have proof. But their goal isnt preventing any from taking over the country as you say, their goal in my mind, is keeping a peace, because the usa is demographically very weak. You can't get ten people in the usa in any city to explain what unites people in the usa outside of lies/commercial statements/ or honest I don't knows. All ten will not say the simple truth, individual greed. The problem with that truth is, individual greed doesn't lend to working with others, by default. If you can't get people in the usa to comprehend why they should be aligned casually, if they start thinking the walls will get higher. The question is one of arms. Schrumpft is president now. The states are already showing at least two camps on alot of issues, but they haven't armed themselves. The good news for the military is the post lincoln federalism has successfully defanged all states in the union. None of them can survive a month without the federal welfare check. Circa 1865 most states in the union had totally internal economies, they battled each other for trade let alone places outside the usa. so, the key is the states,will the schrumpf era lead to states developing themselves to be self sufficient as in the past? if so , that will lead to war eventually Another potential is a fissure in the military which would quicken the pace, but it seems the military hasn't fissured but it has happened in the past and will happen again eventually. @aka Contrarian And to be blunt, the challenge is on our particular tribe. Black DOSers are in a modernity where the usa it is fifty years, a half century, since the sixties and black dosers as individuals have achieved a lot, more than any other group arguably, but as a populace, are even farther from being a potent community. and so i think many DOSers are in the resent phase when plans don't go as some preached or some prayed for or some guaranteed. How many black parents told black children what to do and it turned out hogwash? don't break the law, go to ivy league, be a proud american, embrace the other as a human being, hasn't led to much of anything for a lot of black people, and definitely hasnt led to the black populace being a black community. so, blame game for many, lets blame the immigrant, lets blame muslims. even black immigrants or black muslims are under attack. Not strange bedfellows. many white german jewish organizations were in full support of the nazis with the nazi's yelling death to all jews. it isn't strange. all populaces of people are broken up into tribes in truth because how people see the world, themselves, their future, is rarely the same. These blacks are frightened of white power, are making a gambit that allegiance with them will save them from violence, from harm, they don't care for the multiracial USA that was probably promised by their parents and elders growing up as a positive when that was an over simplification. The black church... whom I have so much to say on, misguided the black populace in all earnest, in times past and has been forever regretful that it fucked up, blaming all but itself for its modern condition. so yeah.

@Pioneer1 what do you want exactly? I am a little confused. You know that Black owned media exists and black owned media emphasizes black love between black people who are not yella/light skin/ideal mulatto/ or similar. you know black people have access to black owned media in the usa. So when I see your complaint, it seems to me, what you really want is for non black owned media to present black people a certain way. Am I right? My problem with your desire is, how can that happen in the USA? is not the usa a multiracial country? Many people talk about white jews but many websites in the usa, many groups in the usa are publicly anti jewish, no matter a jews phenotype. All the American civil liberties unions and Defamation Leagues don't stop said anti jewish organizations from posting whole movies online stating the jewish populace, any phenotype, has to be... removed. So what do you want exactly?

ah @ProfD everybody loves chaka khan