The problem with the film industry in the USA and Kemet

[richardmurray]

Cleopatra and the media 
https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/6477-richardmurray/?status=2317&type=status

[Chevdove]

 

There is so much confusion about this subject. I just read in your post @richardmurray that the origins of Cleopatra's mother is not known. So, imo, that would be a problem. Whose to say that she did or did not have any African heritage for that reason? I beleive the late Ivan Sertima in that Cleopatra was Greek and was not Black AFrican at all, though.

 

But Zahi Hawass is completely wrong! But for him to weigh in on this controversy is huge though. Nevertheless, he has to answer to the Egyptian government for whatever he says so, for this reason, it is obvious that the is completely putting out confusion.

 

He said that only the 25th Dynasty were Black and he said that Black Americans and other western countries are putting out false beliefs in that the original Egyptians were black. He is a deliberate liar. 

 

All anyone has to do is to go to the Fine Arts museum and will be able to see that Zahi Hawass is a liar!

The statues of the earliest of Egyptian kings were completely black! And even during these early times there are other statues that depict the presence of White Egyptians so, yes, Hawass is a complete liar.

 

The original Egyptian kings were definitely black, not brown, but completely black. And the common term used in the museum to describe just how black they were is BITUMEN!!! 

 

BITUMEN means coal black! smh. 

Furthermore, this very word, BITUMEN, is the origin of so many other terms such as the cartoon, super hero BATMAN! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pioneer1]

The fact that some Egyptian lawyer wants to file a lawsuit because a MIXED RACED woman is playing Cleopatra just proves how racist and ignorant a lot of these Arabs are.

They don't want to admit that the original Egyptians were Black and that the current Arab occupants are INVADERS who came there in mass mostly after the 14th century.

 

[Troy]

I think Arabs know that Egypt was Black for thousands of years. By the time Cleopatra came around Egypt was a very old civilization, long past it’s prime. 
 

The people who rule American today look nothing like the people who ran this land mass just a few centuries ago.

 

Filling a lawsuit does smell racist.

[richardmurray]

@Chevdove

Well, I hoped my post aided in clarity. I am saddened it didn't. But, you offer a great question. 

What is the race of cleopatra? now you may ask, didn't I, Richard, answer that. Well no, I didn't. All human beings are part of various races, that are clearly defined with various labels for communication sake. I myself, am male-my gender or sexual physicality at birth/black-my phenotype or appearance/anglo- the language I speak/african- my majority geographic ancestry, note a difference between saying african as opposed to nigerian. and continuing. But what is the point? 

What is the race of cleopatra? 

 

Is it the cultural race she adhered to? Cleopatra didn't call herself Greek or Hellens, she called herself the queen of egypt. Egpyt is the greek word for Kemet. But, South Africa is the white european term for the lands consisting of and between the Namib or Zululand. Yet, Charlize Theron who has no african or black ancestry, not the same thing, calls herself south african. So, Cleopatra called herself Egyptian. 

 

Is it her geographic ancestry? Human beings always have mixed ancestry in some form or fashion. A majority of Cleopatra's ancestry is macedonian-hellens/greek, Most Descended of Enslaved from Canada to Argentina have a minority of ancestry from europe, while a majority of ancestry from africa and yet most Descended of Enslaved do not call themselves African or European but Black or NEgra or Noir. So Hawass or others, giving greater attributation to her geographic ancestry is dysfunctionally discarding Cleopatra's life. She had the money or resources to relocate to Greece with money and leave Egypt without a greater fight. 

 

Is it her phenotype? My guess is Cleopatra was white. I have no proof cause Cleopatra is one of the most historically manipulated figures. And, what I have seen is unverifiable. But her being white doesn't suggest her complete ancestry or the ancestry she valued or her heritage she valued. This is why I continually say finding one's roots has nothing to do with paper trails because the identity of people in the past can only come from their words. I really think the diary or the speech from one's forebears isn't given their proper value in truly comprehending a person's past and definitely one's ancestry. 

 

Supposedly where her palace was
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antirhodos\

 

Supposedly from the palace in egypt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bust_of_Cleopatra

 

a bust supposedly made in italy during her trip to rome
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Bust_of_Cleopatra_VII_in_the_Altes_Museum_Berlin

 

So what is the race if Cleopatra ? Is it what she wanted , which no one in modernity knows? Is it what anyone in modernity guesses, even though her life is full of racial complexity? 

 

@Pioneer1 your correct, but the question is who are arabs?

The problem with the racial term arabs is the same with latinos. In Encanto, the black latinos seem to live absent any friction with white latinos but in reality in most latin american homes, the dark are not treated equally or better than the light, and the powerful in the house are rarely the black while usually the white. In the same context. Arabs is to open ended a racial term. Who are arabs ? those born in the arabian peninsula? those who speak arabic? those who look mulatto in the american continent context but live in North africa or south east europe or westernmost asia arab? If Common the Black American thespian was born in egypt , and all anyone had was a photo, is he black or arab?

My point is, when you have a loose racial classification it yields negative biases because the definition allows for too much and restricts to little. 

the same with American. I don't know how many times I have heard black people utter, you born in the USA your american, which based on descended of enslaved history range from an insult to a crude simplicity. Is anyone Statian , of the usa, because of the legal system's rulings on classification of children based on geography, or some culture or heritage, or the quantity of forebears in the usa ? 

[richardmurray]

@Troy

I paraphrase you 

Quote

The people who rule American today look nothing like the people you lived on  this land mass just s great centuries ago.

 

well said. Human beings in modernity, led in large part by how the majority of the populace in the usa treats identity as a very modern thing, have a problem accepting racial change in history.  I think said humans like the the ease of ignoring when another people were the majority in the past. And I will even be honest and admit I comprehend why. The reasons why the majority changes in countries is rarely positive or fair, and by ignoring you save the community from the discussion of why things changed so drastically, which rarely has a peaceful way to be.

[Troy]

My last post was riddled with typos. Including the post you quoted @richardmurray, but i think you got the gist.

 

Cleopatra never called herself black or white.  No one really knows exactly how she presented phenotypically.
 

Has Hawass, (who I heard lecture once,  at Goldman, where  everyone was given a massive coffee take book he created), ever sued the producers of movies who depicted Jesus the Christ as blond-haired and blue-eyed, where  we do know a man of his time and place could  not have been.

[Troy]

This text is worth reading for people uninformed or misled about Eygpt, Western Civilization, and their respective contributions

 

Nile Valley Contributions to Civilization
by Anthony Browder

 

 

 

[Chevdove]

14 hours ago, richardmurray said:

The reasons why the majority changes in countries is rarely positive or fair, and by ignoring you save the community from the discussion of why things changed so drastically, which rarely has a peaceful way to be.

 

So true. @richardmurray This is the problem. 

For Zahi Hawass to weigh in on this subject, imo, is a big deal. However, he is willfully ignoring how the original Egyptians were replaced with the Egyptians of today of which are predominantly Arab. And it is very important too, imo to understand that the Arabs today that define themselves as Egyptians ran into GREAT CONFLICT with the Arabs in Arab countries and that practice Arab religions! So therefore, the Egyptians that are actually Arabs are not identified as Egyptians in the Middle East and etc. They call themselves PHARIONIC! 

 

And in face of this confusion that continues to surround Cleopatra's true identity, these kinds of questions will probably continue to be contentious until the truth comes out.  

5 hours ago, Troy said:

Has Hawass, (who I heard lecture once,  at Goldman, where  everyone was given a massive coffee take book he created), ever sued the producers of movies who depicted Jesus the Christ as blond-haired and blue-eyed, where  we do know a man of his time and place could  not have been.

 

Well said @Troy! This brings to my mind a recent post I came across on this very contentious subject! 

I think that Hawass is saying what he is allowed to say, no matter, he is being used to hurt a lot of Black people. I kind of remember hearing that he may have even been jailed once for saying something about Egyptian history that angered the rulers in Egypt. And for this reason, I hope African leaders do not take this kind of contention lightly. IMO, it's a big deal to deny the cultural origins of the original Black Egyptians and also to continue to allow false information be believed by Black Americans about Cleopatra as well. Some of these movie stars need to sit the hell down and let the educated sector confirm history before they make movies on lies. GEEZ. 

 

IMO it's not difficult to confirm Cleopatra's true culture. We perhaps should not focus on whether she was dark or light skinned, but rather her cultural origins in general makes her of THE WHITE RACE! Those Greeks and Hellenes had been the dominant rulers in Egypt for about 300 years and then, the Romans came to dominate over Egypt! Yeah, it our ancestors fault. Black Africans worshiped White people so much back then as they do now and for this reason, way back even in those ancient times, the Greeks came to rule over Egypt since the time of Alexander the Great. Ain't nobody questioning whether he was Black or White like they do about Cleopatra, so far as I can see. 

 

The Greek civilization is from the east originally. And there were the Ptolemies, the Hellenes and so many other distinct kinds but they were indeed White and they came in over top of the originally Blacks but nobody knows that kind of history because why? What is wrong with Black people that they keep letting White people tell our story [History]? What happened to the PROTO-GREEKS, meaning Blacks that lived in Europe and Greece before the Macedonians and etc.?

 

ALTHOUGH I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT AGREE WITH EVERYTHING IN THIS SHORT VIDEO, I do appreciate Billy Graham for takind such a strong stance!

 

 

 

[richardmurray]

@Troy 

exactly, I wondered did he sue the film gods of egypt,where most of the actors looked northern european i was unable to find any way to email or message hawass or the lawyer. Isis + Hawthor in that film looked like brunhilda and freya.  

But that was a similar thinking I had. 

I adjusted my post with the following

 

 

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl3847128833/weekend/

Mar 2-6    -    $39,360    -    1    -    $39,360    $39,360    1
Mar 9-13    -    $14,958    -62%    1    -    $14,958    $60,950    2
Mar 16-20    -    $13,675    -8.6%    1    -    $13,675    $77,216    3

 

So, Gods of Egypt wasn't banned, wasn't called to be banned in Egypt. People saw it in egypt. So, this invalidates the desire of the few in Egypt to pan the cleopatra film by Jada Pinkett Smith. And what does it prove. It proves that, the issue here isn't  that the Cleopatra film in question isn't phenotypically or other racially correct, it is that, it is produced by Jada Pinkett SMith, a Black woman of the USA in the NEtflix zone, which is going to be mostly seen online in streaming. This is the true issue. Black produced and mostly on streaming not in theaters. Hawass and  EL Semary realize that most of the young in egypt, like most poor people in the usa , get film through streaming, not theaters, they are afraid of said Cleopatra's visions being displayed amongst the youth, which will get some youth to question the Europhilic-whitephilic aspects of egyptian culture that have been peddled or enforced by those in power in egypt. I got you!:)  I have found real evidence against them. 

 

@Chevdove check the comment above to troy. I asked if Gods of EGypt was banned in egpty and it wasn't. I hoped somebody knew but I finally found evidence, all cited. 

 

 

 

 

[Pioneer1]

23 hours ago, richardmurray said:

 

 

@Pioneer1 your correct, but the question is who are arabs?

The problem with the racial term arabs is the same with latinos. In Encanto, the black latinos seem to live absent any friction with white latinos but in reality in most latin american homes, the dark are not treated equally or better than the light, and the powerful in the house are rarely the black while usually the white. In the same context. Arabs is to open ended a racial term. Who are arabs ? those born in the arabian peninsula? those who speak arabic? those who look mulatto in the american continent context but live in North africa or south east europe or westernmost asia arab? If Common the Black American thespian was born in egypt , and all anyone had was a photo, is he black or arab?

 

You three groups of Arabs:

1. Arabs of TODAY

2. Arabs of CLASSICAL HISTORY

3. ORIGINAL Arabs.


The original Arabs were White people (Caucasians) who escaped the Caucasus mountains and traveled down into the deserted areas of Iraq and Iran and Syria over hundreds of years.  Unlike most of the Caucasians who went to Europe....the Caucasians who went down into the Middle East developed a very tribalistic and savage.

These original White Arabs eventually conquered and mixed and mingled with many of the Indigenous Black populations of the land and their progeny producing the CLASSICAL ARABS of history like many of those we read around the time of Muhammad.  These were mixed raced Arabs of various colors and shades given their hundreds of years of mixing the Caucasian with the Black indigenous peoples of Iran, Iraq, and Syria.
They were primarily made up of 12 Tribes.

Those Classical Arabs eventually spread all over the place....especially after the advent of Islam.....and as they spread they spread their seed and culture around and a lot of people ADOPTED the identity of Arab even though they had little Arab ancestry.
These are the White and very light and pale skinned people today in places like Lebanon, Palestine, and Iran who may claim to be Arab but are really more "Arabized" and just adopted the culture and identity of Arabs rather than claiming to be a White European or White Asian which would have been more accurate.

[ProfD]

I would like to know why in modernity that we should care about Cleopatra or Greeks or Romans. 

 

I do not see the correlation in how any of this ancient history will move Black folks beyond their present condition under the system of racism white supremacy. 

 

In fact, white supremacists use their interpretations of history and religion as a distraction to keep folks dazed and confused while they run the world.

[richardmurray]

@ProfD  The answer to your first question

Quote

I would like to know why in modernity that we should care about Cleopatra or Greeks or Romans. 

 

is simple. The we you refer to doesn't exist. The whole point of any we is that those in the we share something in common. If historical perspective <why in modernity that we should care about Cleopatra or Greeks or Romans>or present strategy < how any of this ancient history will move Black folks beyond their present condition  > are the elements that are meant to be common in a we and it isn't then the we doesn't exist. 

 

The better questions are two. 1)  who in the Black community thinks like you Profd, shares your philosophical positions offline or online? They exist and are in the millions.  2) what is the we you are apart of doing as a group? The we you are apart of isn't merely Black people. Black people is the village. The we you are apart of is a tribe, Black people who don't care about cleopatra or greeks or romans who see no correlation to that history and how the present condition of blacks can improve under the system of white supremacy.   You don't need black people who do care about cleopatra or see some connection to be convinced to your view. You need to work with those who see your view and do something. It is like I tell Black Donkeys or Black Elephants all the time. You two keep talking about the larger black community but you two don't have anything to show within your own tribe in the village. 

 

So, ProfD what is your tribe doing to better itself in the village? don't tell me your alone, other black people think like you. I know this for certain from offline conversation side black people you don't know who said exactly what you said. So, I ask again, what is your tribe doing to better itself and telling other blacks to think like y'all isn't dysfunctional proselytization.