2023 March on Washington

[Troy]

I just read about the March on an issue of The Afro American.

 

i knew it was a big anniversary but for dinner train it was lost on me that there was an actual March. Not a commemoration, but a continuation. 
 

It was organized by the leader of black america, in so far as we have one, Al Sharpton. Editorial in the paper indicated turn it was low.
 

I’m firmly convinced the days of a black leader are gone. We are off doing our own thing. Maybe that is the result of “progress.”

 

 

[richardmurray]

black leadership in the usa will become stronger

[Pioneer1]

Troy

 

I didn't even KNOW there was a paper called the "Afro American" until I read it in this thread....lol.

 

 

 

 

It was organized by the leader of black america, in so far as we have one, Al Sharpton.

 

 Only one?
Al Sharpton?????

I'd say we have hundreds if not THOUSANDS of Black leaders in America today....which is part of the problem.
The people are confused and not sure which direction to go in.
Too many to choose from.

I didn't even KNOW there was a paper called the "Afro American" until I read it in this thread....lol.

[Pioneer1]

 

Well, Al Sharpton may not be THEE leader of Black America but he's certainly A leader and mobilizer.
Take a look at the recent rather uplifting speech he gave at his church:
 

I didn't realize that the Jacksonville Shooting took place at the same time the 60th anniversary of King's March was happening!
But Mr. Sharpton put the two together like that.
How ironic.
How diabolical.

Maybe some other publications mentioned it but I don't remember having heard this anywhere else in the media.

[Troy]

On 9/23/2023 at 4:50 PM, Pioneer1 said:

I didn't even KNOW there was a paper called the "Afro American" until I read it in this thread....lol.

 

Here is a list of other Black owned newspapers: https://aalbc.com/newspapers/

 

Regardless of what you think about the man, Sharpton is the most prominent Black leader of this generation.  

 

Yes there are Black leaders in communities across the country, but on a national no one else comes close to Sharpton's prominence.

 

I listened to the 30 minute sermon above and is was delivered in the style of the Baptist ministers on my youth which is interesting because Rev Al is only 7 years older than me but presents as a much older man... I'm not sure if that style appeals to many young people. 

 

I'm from NYC and remember Rev Al when is was an obese, perm-sporting, medallion-wearing, jogging suit attired brother.  He did not fit the mold of a leaders and was an easy target for ridicule.  In his sermon he mention that a reporter told him that he was surprised Al would end up an a State dinner in the white house -- shoot I was surprised too! Of course Brother Al has modified his appearance conforming to the traditional mold -- indeed out dressing pretty much everyone.

 

Obama's embrace of Sharpton over Tavis Smiley and others was deliberate and ultimately divisive to Black leadership. Sharpton roles was apparently to keep the Blacks under control.  Others like Cornel West and the Black media were more interested in holding him accountable -- which Obama always avoided.

 

One would think Obama would have assumed the leadership role, but I'm not surprised he hasn't...  

[richardmurray]

@Troy

 

Quote

One would think Obama would have assumed the leadership role

why? I admit, my definition of what makes a leader is specific, it isn't an open net that many can fit into. One of my rules is,  the qualities you have don't require big chairs. Obama wasn't the leader of the black community in the congressional district he won, that is why he lost trying to court the black vote and won by splitting the black vote and gaining most of the white. 

Again, the problem is many black people who are well known can't even be considered the leader of black people in the city or state they live in, so how can they be the leader to the entire black populace in the usa. I don't comprehend how the assumption you allude to can be made unless one has a very very wide and in my view, foolish sense of what makes a leader.

 

[ProfD]

10 hours ago, richardmurray said:

Again, the problem is many black people who are well known can't even be considered the leader of black people in the city or state they live in, so how can they be the leader to the entire black populace in the usa. 

Whew. Say that with your chest mayne.

 

Black folks definitely have to get past the belief that well known or popular people are qualified to be leaders.

 

For example, Michael Jordan could play basketball no doubt. Yet, the only thing MJ is capable of leading off the court is a cigar into his mouth.

 

As I mentioned in another thread, contrast that with the actions of  former POTUS 45 who has the MAGA crowd ready to fight. 

 

Leaders take actions to motivate people to get on code and be ready to work or fight or whatever it takes to accomplish the mission.

[richardmurray]

@ProfD 

a person can be well known or popular and be a leader.

I oppose your assertion that schrumpf is a leader, i consider him a mob guide, that goes back to his central park 5 opinion. it didn't lead, scrumpft comprehends a simple truth, the usa is a multiracial country which means a populace in every race in the usa: women/white/black/native/men/young/old/immigrant/christian/muslim/chinese/nigeiran/russian/any other you can think of dislike/hate everybody else. And the populace inside the white community in the usa that dislike/hate everybody else is large enough to be profitable in one way or another. 

The proof is the black followers, people say it is shocking but it isn't. The black community in the usa don't have anyone like Schrumpf. a black person , financially safe that can or desires to  mouthpiece pure dislike or hate with an anti immigratory or anti integrated position. 

Take a look at the film, the intruder, for free

https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/6477-richardmurray/?status=2422&type=status

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, richardmurray said:

a person can be well known or popular and be a leader.

I didn't write that a well known or popular person could not be a leader. 

 

I wrote that being well known or popular doesn't necessarily qualify them be leaders.

 

An individual has to want and/or be willing to be a leader.

 

1 hour ago, richardmurray said:

I oppose your assertion that schrumpf is a leader,

Of course, I've come to expect nothing less than your opposition to my assertion/opinion.

[richardmurray]

@ProfD did you see the film? 

[Troy]

22 hours ago, richardmurray said:

@Troy

 

Quote

One would think Obama would have assumed the leadership role

why?

 

Well you left off half of my sentence: "One would think Obama would have assumed the leadership role, but I'm not surprised he hasn't..." 

 

What I was trying to imply is that he could not have assumed the "leadership" role for the reasons you mentioned and too many others for me to get into.  Bottom line is that he could not have if he wanted to. 

 

Again, whether you like it or not Reverend Al is it.

[ProfD]

3 hours ago, richardmurray said:

@ProfD did you see the film? 

I watched the entire film.

 

Roger Corman wrote into the future. A younger William Shatner did his thing as an actor too.

 

The film was considered a commercial failure back in 1962 but definitely ahead of its time.

[richardmurray]

@Troy

I will not suggest any human being is unable to act randomly or radically. I can say that many, often times most, chose not too. 

Al sharpton isn't the leader of the black community of nyc. so those who think similarly to me, which is not you, accept that  he can not be the leader of the black community of the usa. But I have no problem accepting you and those who think similarly to you see him as a black statian leader. 

 

 

@ProfD

and that character is what tschrumpf/obama/biden/clinton/bush jr or sr/al sharpton /cornell west/ocasio cortez/current governor hochul/eric adams/ plus many others are. 

 

of course it was a failure and corman mortgaged his house to pay for the film. but message doesn't sell like fun. It doesn't mean an artist has to present fun, but financially, the history of artistic revenue doesn't lie. 

[Troy]

I’m about 3/4 of the wsy through the film and am enjoying it. 
 

I’m have more respect for Shatner’s acting ability.

 

4 hours ago, richardmurray said:

But I have no problem accepting you and those who think similarly to you see him as a black statian leader. 

some  other guy Nicollo or  something disparaged Sharpton in another conversation. Another questioned the relevance of the concept of a black leader. Both were valid comments.

 

i never said anything about the effectiveness of Sharpton leadership or the strength of it. I was just indicating of all the people out there he is the only one trying with a platform who has mainstream media’s attention.

 

 Is he MLK or Malcom X? heck no. 
 

my main point is that the black community is essentially leaderless. Not the NAACP or the Black church’s various factions speak for black people.

 

maybe that leadership is impossible. maybe it is unnecessary. 
 

I’m any event it is absent. however Al Sharpton is about as close as you can get.  How about Oprah?  

[Troy]

i thought it was a good film

[ProfD]

9 hours ago, Troy said:

my main point is that the black community is essentially leaderless. Not the NAACP or the Black church’s various factions speak for black people.

 

maybe that leadership is impossible. maybe it is unnecessary. 

I'm inclined to think the 1960s was a watershed moment in Black leadership. 

 

Over the past 50 years and counting, Black folks have been devoid of leadership. 

 

Black folks have been content with "trying to make it" in the system of racism white supremacy.

 

Interestingly, during the GOP debate last night, Senator Tim Scott blurted out that America is not a racist country. 

 

Senator Scott is a textbook example of a Black person who sticks his head in the sand when it comes to racism.

 

Regardless of any person who denies it, the religion/system of racism white supremacy is alive and kicking.

 

Black folks need leadership in order to get on code and dismantle the system of racism white supremacy. 

 

Unfortunately, it's way too easy for white folks to pay off potential Black leaders and/or kill them.

[richardmurray]

@Troy   as shatner said in the interview, the content of the material inspired.  

 

and remember to say the leadership will change, all communities in humanity go through phases of quality leadership, sometimes the quality is high plus the quantity is high sometimes the quality is low plus the quantity is low. 

 

Sharpton said on local news in 2023, talking about coretta scott king and mlk jr, forget the show i apologize, that he wanted a christian movement when he started in his perm and third trimester days, he purposefully rejected other advocates who wanted to regale other aspects in the black community outside the black christian. so... 

 

And you mention oprah and it is similar. 

 The modern black community in the usa is internally more multiracial than ever before and it isn't just the black, this goes into Schrumpt, the white community in the usa today has a greater level of internal multiraciality, and same to latinos, same to asian.  I have heard in NYC latinos call ocasio cortez crazy. Anyone in NYC know the koreans and indians do not get along with the chinese. Staten island, the mostly white borough,  wants to cede from nyc in the same way, the southern states white populaces want to change the imperial design of the usa from how the northern and western states have it.  These are splits , not impossible to lead, nothing is impossible, but the quality has to be higher and... 

 

@ProfD

The question is, how do you lead an internally multiracial community that is only getting more and more multiracial per day?  The 1960s opened up the immigration doors in the usa but as someone i know who advocates for immigrants said very wisely, governments in general, don't tend to make comprehensive or wise immigration laws, looking forward. 

 

IN AMENDMENT

 

 I thought about your point, though worded differently initially,  who in the usa is as close to a confirmed black leader in the past? 

Sharpton is as close a copy to a black christian leader pre 1980s, which is what sharpton wanted when he started, by his own words. But a black christian leader is inadequate to the structure of the modern black populace in the usa 2023

[ProfD]

7 hours ago, richardmurray said:

.. when he started in his perm and third trimester days...

That's hilarious. 

7 hours ago, richardmurray said:

But a black christian leader is inadequate to the structure of the modern black populace in the usa 2023

Black leadership would have to consist of several people representing the interests and diversity of the race.

[richardmurray]

@ProfD thank you

In my mind, i rather say Black Leadership in NYC at the least, is wisest if it consist of a group of individuals representing the various tribes in the black village in nyc, but it doesn't have to, it can be one individual but they have to be committed to the all the tribes honestly which is a challenge. 

Comprehend Jackson mississippi doesn't require such an internally multiracial leadership. a black christian movement is enough but al sharpton isn't in jackson, he is in nyc. 

[Chevdove]

On 9/24/2023 at 6:16 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Well, Al Sharpton may not be THEE leader of Black America but he's certainly A leader and mobilizer.
Take a look at the recent rather uplifting speech he gave at his church:

 

Oh Yes! I loved listening to every minute of it.

Thanks for posting @Pioneer1

 

Like you said, he may not be THEE leader to everyone but, it is respected as such among many.

 

 

 

[Pioneer1]

Troy

I'm from NYC and remember Rev Al when is was an obese, perm-sporting, medallion-wearing, jogging suit attired brother.  He did not fit the mold of a leaders and was an easy target for ridicule.  In his sermon he mention that a reporter told him that he was surprised Al would end up an a State dinner in the white house -- shoot I was surprised too! Of course Brother Al has modified his appearance conforming to the traditional mold -- indeed out dressing pretty much everyone.

 

Do you remember when he got stabbed while he was out marching?

 

 

 

 

Obama's embrace of Sharpton over Tavis Smiley and others was deliberate and ultimately divisive to Black leadership. 

 

I don't remember Obama embracing Sharpton over Tavis, perhaps he did but it seems that those two men served two entirely different roles in the community.

Sharpton is an activist and stirs up the grassroots while Smiley was more of a journalist and commentator.
I would think it wouldn't be about embracing one over the other but more about using both based on which ever role was needed at the time.

 

However what you're saying is very possible because I remember Tavis offering very heavy criticism of Obama even BEFORE he became president and even in his early days in office.

 

Much of the Black community was angry at Tavis for his critique of Obama and holding him to account for how he plans to help us versus being a pawn for the White establishment.

 

 

 

Sharpton roles was apparently to keep the Blacks under control.

 

Lol......that would be most Black "leaders" in the United States.

 

 

 

One would think Obama would have assumed the leadership role, but I'm not surprised he hasn't...  

 

I'm not either....lol.

He KNOWS he wouldn't be an effective leader of AfroAmericans.
He's too thoughtful and logical minded to lead AfroAmericans.
He's also too stiff and emotionless.

To lead AfroAmericans you have to be loud, bold, and know how to express strong emotions and control the strong emotions of the community.

Obama could lead intellectually.....but not Spiritually.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ProfD

 

Leaders take actions to motivate people to get on code and be ready to work or fight or whatever it takes to accomplish the mission.

 

Yeah....
Now TRUMP is a sho' nuff leader!

Not only does he run his mouth and speak the words people want to hear, he knows how to INSTRUCT those who follow him into taking action.

He knows how to stir them up and send them out with an action plan.

 

 

Over the past 50 years and counting, Black folks have been devoid of leadership. 

 

Although I understand the point you're making and agree theoretically if you're talking about POSITIVE leadership......I would say the opposite is actually true. 

 

Not only have we had definite leaders in the past 40 years, we've had TOO MANY leaders....leading our people in the WRONG direction.

They're called RAPPERS.

 

Starting with Run DMC, then Public Enemy,  NWA and then Tupac and many others, rappers have been the main ones instructing the Black youth on how to dress, talk, act, and what to believe in and how to express themselves.

And ofcourse  many of THOSE rappers have been influenced and encouraged by the racist White executives who are paying them to promote dysfunction and degeneracy.

Chev

 

 

Thanks for posting

 

You're more than welcomed queen!

[ProfD]

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Not only have we had definite leaders in the past 40 years, we've had TOO MANY leaders....leading our people in the WRONG direction.

They're called RAPPERS.

 

They are entertainers. 

 

No group of people considers artists, musicians and athletes leaders of a community. 

 

These folks are influencers.  Not leaders.  There's a difference.

 

It can be argued that some AfroAmericans spend way too much time being entertained.

 

 

[Pioneer1]

5 hours ago, ProfD said:

They are entertainers. 

 

No group of people considers artists, musicians and athletes leaders of a community. 

 

These folks are influencers.  Not leaders.  There's a difference.

 

It can be argued that some AfroAmericans spend way too much time being entertained.

 

 

Well.......
These rappers give their listeners MARCHING ORDERS.

Nate Dogg said:  Smoke weed every day

Eazy E said:  Never leave the pad without packing a gun

 

Ice Cube said:  Told all my friends, don't drink 8-Ball cuz St.Ides is givin' ends.   

 

 

 

 

Entertainers SHOULDN'T necessarily be leaders...but unfortunately in many of our communities the entertainers ARE the leaders because there is nobody else around to do it.

And I said "necessarily" because being an entertainer doesn't necessarily disqualify you from being a good leader of the people.
It's about managing your priorities.

Infact.......
In OUR community a good leader must provide a bit of entertainment to keep the attention of the people, lol.

[ProfD]

@Pioneer1, white folks are actually the biggest consumers of Hip-Hop music. 

 

If rappers are giving out marching orders, white folks aren't falling in line.

 

Dysfunctional human beings are products of their environment. They don't need music and movies to set them off 

[Troy]

11 hours ago, ProfD said:

It can be argued that some AfroAmericans spend way too much time being entertained.

we spend too much time doing the entertaining. But that is the easiest way to get rich in this raciest country, so I get it.

 

6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

 

Ice Cube said:  Told all my friends, don't drink 8-Ball cuz St.Ides is givin' ends.   

I saw ice cube on Sesame Street the other day. He like ice t, snoop, Dre, etc are mainstream now… if Tupac and Biggie lived long enough they would be too.

 

 

[Pioneer1]

Ice Cube started going mainstream right after he made Boyz In The Hood....lol.

He began to see that Hollywood and making movies was where the money was.

He was really hard on White folks and especially Jews in his earlier albums but after that money from movies started rolling in....he changed his tune and kept quiet.

Check out how he had to check Kanye for mentioning him and his former "anti-semitism"......
 

 

[ProfD]

9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Ice Cube started going mainstream right after he made Boyz In The Hood....lol.

He began to see that Hollywood and making movies was where the money was.

He was really hard on White folks and especially Jews in his earlier albums but after that money from movies started rolling in....he changed his tune and kept quiet.

They say most folks have a price at which they can be bought.

 

MC Ren and DJ Yella never made it beyond NWA. I wonder if it's because they didn't sellout.

[Pioneer1]

39 minutes ago, ProfD said:

They say most folks have a price at which they can be bought.

 

MC Ren and DJ Yella never made it beyond NWA. I wonder if it's because they didn't sellout.

Well....if they were in NWA under the leadership of hell-raising Jerry Heller; then they already sold out...lol.

I think Ren took a page from Ice Cube's pro-Black book and became a Nation of Islam promoting pro-Black conscious rappers for a minute.
Yella went into the porn business....directing, lol.

The question is:   What happened to the Arabian Prince?